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View Full Version : Bull Pen - who goes?



Rock of Truth
03-01-2013, 11:31 AM
Chapman looked good yesterday in the starting role. With that, Leake could move to a long reliever. From what I have seen over the past couple years, could this spell doom for Arrodando? Every time I have ever seen him, the opposition scores. If not him, then A. Simon? Drop one of these combustible arms and I think the roster fills out very nicely.

(I am already discounting Masset)

Vander
03-01-2013, 12:32 PM
(I am already discounting Masset)

As sad as this is, I think Masset's career might be over. So much talent... Just wasted...

As for the bullpen, Broxton and Marshall are the obvious locks as the 8th and 9th inning guys. Parra is the only lefty outside of Marshall so he's pretty obvious as well. That leaves four spots for Arredondo, Hoover, LeCure, Ondrusek and Simon. Honestly, it may come down to who has more options or if there's an injury during the spring because all of these guys are deserving. Assuming everyone is healthy, I'd say Arredondo should be the one to go down, but they'd probably send down Hoover because he has the most options... As well as the most talent... *sigh*

SweetLou1990
03-01-2013, 12:41 PM
Broxton, Marshall, LeCure, Leake I think are shoe ins. That leaves 3 spots for Parra, Simon, Hoover, Arredondo, Ondrusek. So 2 of these 5 won't make it. The best of these guys will make it, the worst guy should be cut and if 4 out of the 5 pitch well, Hoover is back at AAA, until he is needed. He will find his way to Cincy soon enough if that is the case. Best case scenario is they all pitch well and one guy is traded for a prospect.

Vander
03-01-2013, 12:58 PM
Broxton, Marshall, LeCure, Leake I think are shoe ins. That leaves 3 spots for Parra, Simon, Hoover, Arredondo, Ondrusek. So 2 of these 5 won't make it. The best of these guys will make it, the worst guy should be cut and if 4 out of the 5 pitch well, Hoover is back at AAA, until he is needed. He will find his way to Cincy soon enough if that is the case. Best case scenario is they all pitch well and one guy is traded for a prospect.

I really don't think Leake is a lock for the bullpen. They may very well handle Chapman in the same way the Braves handled Medlen and start him as a long man in the pen until the third or fourth month of the season. Secondly, if Chapman does, in fact, start in the rotation to open the season, they may want Leake starting in AAA so that he can be called on to spot start throughout the season to keep Chapman's innings down.

Not saying either situation is a certainty, but I'm just pointing out that Leake is not a certainty for a pen role either.

Staffer
03-01-2013, 01:37 PM
Let's not forget about Clay Hensley as a dark horse. He has pitched 4 shutout innings so far...

RedLeg08
03-01-2013, 03:13 PM
As sad as this is, I think Masset's career might be over. So much talent... Just wasted...

As for the bullpen, Broxton and Marshall are the obvious locks as the 8th and 9th inning guys. Parra is the only lefty outside of Marshall so he's pretty obvious as well. That leaves four spots for Arredondo, Hoover, LeCure, Ondrusek and Simon. Honestly, it may come down to who has more options or if there's an injury during the spring because all of these guys are deserving. Assuming everyone is healthy, I'd say Arredondo should be the one to go down, but they'd probably send down Hoover because he has the most options... As well as the most talent... *sigh*

It is a sad reality that Hoover will most likely start the year in AAA. One of my favorite players last year. Has better stats than Broxton since he came here.

UPRedsFan
03-01-2013, 09:15 PM
This will be fun to watch in March.

Hensley could be hard to send down if he keeps this up.

Wonder if they'll go with 8 pitchers in order to keep Chapman's innings down and plan to use Leake every time Chapman has a turn.

Broxton
Marshall
Lecure
Hoover
Parra
Arredondo/Simon
Ondrusek/Hensley
Leake

That leaves Mes, Heisey, Hannahan, Donald on the bench

Simon Rhymon
03-02-2013, 01:06 AM
Let's not forget about Clay Hensley as a dark horse. He has pitched 4 shutout innings so far...

One good thing is that he pitched early in the games so at least he faced major league hitters for the most part.

SweetLou1990
03-02-2013, 07:39 AM
This will be fun to watch in March.

Hensley could be hard to send down if he keeps this up.

Wonder if they'll go with 8 pitchers in order to keep Chapman's innings down and plan to use Leake every time Chapman has a turn.

Broxton
Marshall
Lecure
Hoover
Parra
Arredondo/Simon
Ondrusek/Hensley
Leake

That leaves Mes, Heisey, Hannahan, Donald on the bench

most likely 12 pitchers will leave ST. that makes the choices harder. Somebody will be cut, and a few may end up in AAA. I send Hoover down until someone gets hurt or blown up.:(

SweetLou1990
03-02-2013, 07:41 AM
I really don't think Leake is a lock for the bullpen. They may very well handle Chapman in the same way the Braves handled Medlen and start him as a long man in the pen until the third or fourth month of the season. Secondly, if Chapman does, in fact, start in the rotation to open the season, they may want Leake starting in AAA so that he can be called on to spot start throughout the season to keep Chapman's innings down.

Not saying either situation is a certainty, but I'm just pointing out that Leake is not a certainty for a pen role either.

That may very well be. Dusty & WJ haven't shown their cards concerning the master plan of how to use Chapman & Leake.

SweetLou1990
03-02-2013, 07:46 AM
Considering this is the 2nd year that Chapman is being tried as a starter - someone really, really wants this to work out. Barring injury, Chapman is a starter.

What if it actually works:beerme:

The entire rotation could be lights out, with Leake used as a long man (or sent to AAA). I remember Dusty saying that he had "Big plans, big plans....." for the rotation in 2012.

DGullett35
03-02-2013, 09:14 PM
Chapman looked good yesterday in the starting role. With that, Leake could move to a long reliever. From what I have seen over the past couple years, could this spell doom for Arrodando? Every time I have ever seen him, the opposition scores. If not him, then A. Simon? Drop one of these combustible arms and I think the roster fills out very nicely.

(I am already discounting Masset)

They dont always score off of Arredondo but your guaranteed to see a walk or two. He likes to make it interesting. I dont see Leake being a long reliever but that may be just me. We could stick him in Louisville for the start of the season. Im sure there will be injuries. The rotation staying healthy like last year would be a miracle if it happened again. You can never have enough good arms. We should be happy we're talking about who should go

holster10
03-03-2013, 12:05 AM
I was surprised Parra was signed. Based on his body of work, I don't think he is good enough to crack the pen. Lefty or not, the best 11 or 12 guys should break camp.

mth123
03-03-2013, 03:13 AM
I like Parra's arm and think he will be a find if he can stay healthy.

I think Simon will be this year's Josias Manzanillo.

I think Ondrusek will be worse than Simon.

I think Hoover is the best hope to be the 3rd late inning guy to go with Marshall and Broxton, but I'm guessing he starts out in AAA.

Hoover optioned and Masset on he DL leaves 13 pitchers for the roster and how they sort out Chapman and Leake will have a big inpact on the opening day roster.

Latos, Cueto, Bailey and Arroyo are locks.

Broxton, Marshall, Lecure, Arredondo, Ondrusek, Simon and Parra might be the pen if Chapman starts in the rotation and Leake is optioned.

If the Reds start Chapman in the pen to hold his innings down, there may not be room for Parra as the 3rd lefty. I'd keep him over Ondrusek or Simon, but I don't think the Reds will.

swaisuc
03-04-2013, 09:26 AM
It really is all related to HOW they plan to keep Chapman's innings down. They have to do it one way or another. Do they skip starts? Does he get yanked early every time? Does he start in the pen (doesn't seem likely now)? Do they somehow just hold him out entirely at the start?

You can't just throw him out there every 5th day from April through (hopefully) the world series. That would be like 240 innings for last year's closer.

rorschach51
03-16-2013, 11:20 PM
So do you guys think Marshall is gonna be the primary setup man this year?

Red Swagger
03-17-2013, 01:03 AM
CHAPMAN WILL BE THE CLOSER.. Today, he came out and today and said " I would rather be the closer" Dusty and Price want in the bullpen as well. If the Reds want to win in 2013, Chapman needs to be in the 9th.
Just watch and see, Aroldis will be the closer.

The Opening Day bullpen:

Chapman
Broxton
Marshall
LeCure
Arredondo
Parra
Simon

Ondrusek and Hoover will be sent down to AAA, options are remaining. Hensley as well.

malcontent
03-17-2013, 01:54 AM
CHAPMAN WILL BE THE CLOSER.. Today, he came out and today and said " I would rather be the closer" Dusty and Price want in the bullpen as well. If the Reds want to win in 2013, Chapman needs to be in the 9th.
Just watch and see, Aroldis will be the closer.

The Opening Day bullpen:

Chapman
Broxton
Marshall
LeCure
Arredondo
Parra
Simon

Ondrusek and Hoover will be sent down to AAA, options are remaining. Hensley as well.
I'd move Arredondo and keep Ondrusek, with Hoover the first option at Louisville.

I'll also be glad to see Chapman back at closer, if that happens.

Red Raindog
03-17-2013, 08:37 AM
CHAPMAN WILL BE THE CLOSER.. Today, he came out and today and said " I would rather be the closer" Dusty and Price want in the bullpen as well. If the Reds want to win in 2013, Chapman needs to be in the 9th.
Just watch and see, Aroldis will be the closer.

The Opening Day bullpen:

Chapman
Broxton
Marshall
LeCure
Arredondo
Parra
Simon

Ondrusek and Hoover will be sent down to AAA, options are remaining. Hensley as well.

All I have seen says that Price wants him in the rotation --- have I missed something?

UPRedsFan
03-17-2013, 02:03 PM
All I have seen says that Price wants him in the rotation --- have I missed something?

Please explain. I've always thought Price was pushing to try him as a starter too.

Norm Chortleton
03-19-2013, 05:09 AM
The only place I've seen saying Price wants Chapman in the pen is a blog post from Hal McCoy. Everything else I've seen says Price prefers him in the rotation. And Jocketty countered Chapman's quote with one of his own: "We don't let every player tell us how they want to be used."

Drugs Delaney
03-19-2013, 06:31 AM
I'd like to see Hoover make the team out of spring training. I know he has options unlike a couple of the others, but I Jesu think he is one of the 6 best.

Is it possible any of these guys have some trade value?

lidspinner
03-19-2013, 09:04 AM
Imagine if Masset can regain any type of form that he once had? we could have a silly sick pen for the record books if Chapman is the closer.....get to the 6th inning and things will start looking really good.

NebraskaRed
03-19-2013, 08:01 PM
I thought Hoover was throwing some good stuff in his few appearances last year. He seems to be doing great this spring, as well.

Any updates on Masset?

lidspinner
03-20-2013, 08:24 AM
the last update I seen on Nick was that he was long tossing and looking good....I believe that was John Fay's twitter feed......I also heard that same news last year only to read again that he would have a setback so I am not sure what to think......but Nick has had a full year to rehab and he should be in good form come summer.

NebraskaRed
03-20-2013, 12:28 PM
I hope so. It would great to see him come in maybe in the second half of the season.

holster10
03-23-2013, 01:35 PM
Now that Chapman is in the pen.....

Marshall L
Chapman L
Broxton R
Hoover - You have to keep Hoover, despite options. "win now" philosophy = keeping best players/ pitchers on roster.
Arredondo R
Lecure R
Simon R- Sure, he had a bad spring but who cares. He was money last season.

No Ondrusek. Not reliable enough.
No Parra, no need for 3 LHP and walks too many, 5.12 career ERA. Lefty or not, does NOT make bullpen better.
Might we see a trade at the end of spring training?

Vander
03-23-2013, 03:52 PM
Now that Chapman is in the pen.....

Marshall L
Chapman L
Broxton R
Hoover - You have to keep Hoover, despite options. "win now" philosophy = keeping best players/ pitchers on roster.
Arredondo R
Lecure R
Simon R- Sure, he had a bad spring but who cares. He was money last season.

No Ondrusek. Not reliable enough.
No Parra, no need for 3 LHP and walks too many, 5.12 career ERA. Lefty or not, does NOT make bullpen better.
Might we see a trade at the end of spring training?

Simon is going to have a hard time making the team because of the WBC. He barely pitched, and now has to stretch out all over again.

With Hoover, I completely agree with you and it will be a nice test of the bull**** meter for Jockety. If Chapman is in the bullpen because we're in "win-now" mode, then shouldn't Hoover be there as well since he's been the best pitcher all spring (options be damned)?

Tuff Nut
03-24-2013, 11:50 AM
I like Hoover, and hope he stays, with the Club. I would like Simon and LO, traded to make room, but with the love Dusty has for Logan, I feel he'll stick around.

holster10
03-24-2013, 12:41 PM
my guess the Reds continue along the path of least resistance....sending Hoover to the minors. Hope I am wrong.

Norm Chortleton
03-24-2013, 05:02 PM
I like Hoover, and hope he stays, with the Club. I would like Simon and LO, traded to make room, but with the love Dusty has for Logan, I feel he'll stick around.

With Baker's track record in personnel decisions, why even give him any input? I wish Walt would set the roster and tell Baker to manage the players he's given.

holster10
03-28-2013, 03:30 PM
No Manny Parra in this bullpen....the guy is not better than what we already have and is a huge project with his "major" control issues.

Corked
03-29-2013, 12:45 PM
I really hope ondru and parra pitched themselves out of the pen the other day.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

jaydeebee21
03-30-2013, 01:23 PM
Hopefully Parra and Ondrusek are gone

Simon
Arrendondo
LeCure
Hoover
Marshall
Broxton
Chapman

Massett on DL

if Simon starts on the DL then Parra or Ondrusek may get a chance for a couple of weeks

DGullett35
03-30-2013, 11:27 PM
Hopefully Parra and Ondrusek are gone

Simon
Arrendondo
LeCure
Hoover
Marshall
Broxton
Chapman

Massett on DL

if Simon starts on the DL then Parra or Ondrusek may get a chance for a couple of weeks


Id say thats a pretty filthy bullpen. if I was making the decisions this is what Id go with. I wonder if Masset will even pitch at all this year. Seems like he has setback after setback. I know he hasnt had one this spring but its taken a long time for him to start throwing and he still hasnt stepped on a mound yet. I think he is supposed to sometime this week so we will have to wait and see. He would sure would be nice to have for the second half.

SweetLou1990
03-31-2013, 12:23 PM
Just wondering what is taking so long, I agree that Hoover should make it. But the announcement is taking to long, I would think that they are considering sending Hoover down or there is a trade pending

holster10
03-31-2013, 12:51 PM
Yeah, this is silly. They were out in Arizona for almost 7 weeks or what ever and they are still sand bagging on the roster decisions nearly 24 hours from game time. The trade argument makes sense. Maybe Parra doesn't want to go to AAA so they are trying to trade him?

90reds
03-31-2013, 01:10 PM
According to Fay, Hoover, Parra and Simon all made it, while Ondrusek and Arredondo didn't. Ondrusek has options, but Arredondo doesn't so it will be interesting to see what happens to him

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2013/03/31/roster-still-not-announced-but-heres-what-im-hearing/

Corked
03-31-2013, 04:01 PM
According to Fay, Hoover, Parra and Simon all made it, while Ondrusek and Arredondo didn't. Ondrusek has options, but Arredondo doesn't so it will be interesting to see what happens to him

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2013/03/31/roster-still-not-announced-but-heres-what-im-hearing/

I see no mention of Hoover in the article you have linked to.

90reds
03-31-2013, 04:41 PM
you're right, sorry. Not in that article, but in other ones this spring Fay has implied that Hoover made the team.

Anyway, final roster is out and Hoover, Parra, and Simon all made the team. Ondrusek will start in AA Pensacola and Arredondo will pitch for AAA Louisville.

DGullett35
03-31-2013, 05:08 PM
I was surprised to hear that Arredondo cleared waivers. Theres alot of teams out there that need bullpen help and he is definitely could help someone out. Not many righties can get LH out like Jose.

757690
03-31-2013, 05:32 PM
I was surprised to hear that Arredondo cleared waivers. Theres alot of teams out there that need bullpen help and he is definitely could help someone out. Not many righties can get LH out like Jose.

Most teams are facing the same numbers crunch as the Reds. He's also making twice the minimum. Most teams like the Astros and Marlins, who might be able to use him, would probably rather stick to their own league minimum guys.

malcontent
03-31-2013, 05:57 PM
Most teams are facing the same numbers crunch as the Reds. He's also making twice the minimum. Most teams like the Astros and Marlins, who might be able to use him, would probably rather stick to their own league minimum guys.
Must be the case. I read he's making $1.2M. What's the minimum?