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Vander
03-21-2013, 10:57 AM
From John Fay's twitter:


Doc is reporting the #Reds have decided to put Chapman in the bullpen. http://cin.ci/Z2n405

Here's another link:
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/21924907/report-reds-set-to-send-aroldis-chapman-back-to-bullpen

NebraskaRed
03-21-2013, 11:01 AM
Not surprised, but I bet they'll still make moves to have him be a starter eventually. Maybe even late in the season

OneEyedJack
03-21-2013, 11:31 AM
If Chapman does not want to be a starter I guess this is the right move. If he cannot get his head around being a starter it probably would not work.

I am worried though. I don't think Leake is a terrible #5 but I worry about what happens now if any of the starters get hurt.

bmwreds31
03-21-2013, 11:36 AM
WTF.

Just came back to the forums to see if this was true.

Good friend of mine is saying we should trade him now while theres still hype about him ever being a starter. not sure i agree with that however, Why cant this organization turn him into a starter. I just dont understand. Professional ball team with all these trainers and the amount of money. Non stop working with him how he can not, when he grew up being one.

I dont like this decision at all. Our Starting rotation is now weaker than last years.

NebraskaRed
03-21-2013, 11:37 AM
Dusty and Chapman are clearly on the side of Chapman staying a closer. I don't like getting into pointless speculation, so I'll leave it to others if they want to offer guesses about why they feel that way.

If Chapman stay a closer, the Broxton deal was a mistake. But hindsight is 20/20. If Chapman could be an effective starter, he would be. He's simply not there yet (if he ever will be).

Caveat Emperor
03-21-2013, 11:40 AM
If Chapman does not want to be a starter I guess this is the right move. If he cannot get his head around being a starter it probably would not work.

I am worried though. I don't think Leake is a terrible #5 but I worry about what happens now if any of the starters get hurt.

It shouldn't be his choice.

What pitcher wouldn't want to cash a multi-million dollar check and throw one inning every few games if given the option?

NebraskaRed
03-21-2013, 11:52 AM
It shouldn't be his choice.

What pitcher wouldn't want to cash a multi-million dollar check and throw one inning every few games if given the option?

I'm not sure anyone is saying it should be his "choice" but why wouldn't you want his opinion concerning whether he thought he was capable of doing it? you get his opinion and take that into consideration with other information/opinions.

It should never be any player's "choice" but their input is necessary.

Stray
03-21-2013, 12:35 PM
If he wasn't comfortable with starting and preferred closing then I'm fine with it. Marshall-Broxton-Chapman at the back of our bullpen is pretty nasty.

Vander
03-21-2013, 12:50 PM
I think it's also worth mentioning that we don't see his bullpens. He may just not be able to develop the consistency needed to start.

To me, this seems so simple. If Chapman can start, then he should start. Plain and simple. However, logically, I have to think that if it were that simple and he really had the ability to be the next Randy Johnson, then the organization would have done it. What else would explain blowing all that money on Broxton if they didn't intend to start him? They're not going to knowingly weaken their starting rotation just to appease the wishes of Aroldis Chapman.

Vander
03-21-2013, 12:59 PM
From John Fay's twitter... Again...


Baker, Jocketty say no decision has been made on Chapman. "We'll put it to soon," Baker siad. #reds #cincienquirer

And the plot thickens.... If only they could just make up their minds and end this crap...

Norm Chortleton
03-21-2013, 01:20 PM
Terrible terrible news, imo. I wish Walt and Price would have opened ST by telling Chapman and Baker that he would begin the season as a starter, period.

texasdave
03-21-2013, 01:44 PM
If Chapman could be an effective starter, he would be. He's simply not there yet (if he ever will be).

This simply is not true. Here are two quotes from near the end of Spring Training last year.

Dusty Baker:
"That was a very, very tough decision because Chapman could be one of our best starters or best relievers," Baker said. "It is a situation where with the injuries that we have, starting out early in the season when the starters are lucky to go five or six innings, we had to shore up our bullpen."

http://espn.go.com/mlb/spring2012/story/_/id/7765901/2012-spring-training-cincinnati-reds-move-aroldis-chapman-back-bullpen


Walt Jocketty:
And if the Reds had only been able to keep half of their bullpen out of the emergency room this spring, Chapman might very well be in this team's rotation right now. He was told after last season he'd get a chance to start. He built himself up all winter to start. And he was "our most dominating starter" in spring training, Jocketty said.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/...pitcher-closer

This spring hitters are hitting .185 off of Chapman. His OPSA is .587. His ERA is 2.25.

Norm Chortleton
03-21-2013, 02:08 PM
It's hard for me to be optimistic about a rotation sans-Chapman. I think the Reds take a big step backward this year with Leake at no. 5.

malcontent
03-21-2013, 02:27 PM
Glad to hear it (if true).

Granted 3 years/21 million is a bit steep for Broxton now, but it's not Cordero money. Anyhow, Bob can thank Walt for that.

For those that don't like Leake too much....keep an eye on Cingrani and Corcino.

Stray
03-21-2013, 02:46 PM
Leake isn't a terrible option as a no. 5 starter.

I dunno, when it comes to pitching I trust the organization's decisions.

redsfan30
03-21-2013, 03:39 PM
Everybody does realize that Leake was the 5 last year....don't they?

bmwreds31
03-21-2013, 05:59 PM
Yea and he did just okay there. If that.

I was hoping even if chapman goes to the bullpen maybe he could be our innings eater. Relief pitcher. See how he does for 2-3-4 innings. He does well and continues to do well We have the option later in the season of starting him. That way it saves his innings. And gets him experience.

holster10
03-21-2013, 07:01 PM
If Leake has another "off year" and Arroyo falls off from last year, then moving chapman to the pen will be second guessed for years to come. Jocketty needs to stick to his guns in this matter and not let opinions of Baker or Chapman dictate his decision.

Norm Chortleton
03-21-2013, 09:25 PM
Ken Rosenthal is 100% dead-on about the situation. Dusty and Chapman both want him to close for mostly selfish, though different, reasons.

--Chapman doesn't want to put the time in to be a top starter when he's already a top closer.

--Baker doesn't have many years left and wants to win now, which he thinks he can do more quickly with Chapman in the pen.

The thing is, Chapman could very well be leaving a ton of money on the table. He'll top out in the low teens as a closer, when he could potentially be making $20+ as a starter.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/news-gets-urgent-as-opening-day-approaches-for-yankees-derek-jeter-dodgers-hanley-ramirez-reds-aroldis-chapman-032113

Norm Chortleton
03-21-2013, 09:41 PM
Everybody does realize that Leake was the 5 last year....don't they?

Leake is what he is. On one hand, he was MLB-ready coming out of college, but on the other, there really isn't much he can do to improve himself. At best, he's always going to be a few games over/under .500.

Meanwhile, Chapman has the stuff to potentially develop into one of the premier starters in baseball. Maybe in the history of baseball. Too bad neither he nor the organization has the patience to find out.

You can't keep touting him as a starter every spring, only to move him to the pen when the season starts. I feel like this could be the last chance to make him a starter and the Reds are blowing it.

90reds
03-21-2013, 10:55 PM
If true, this is an incredibly short-sighted decision. Chapman as a closer may make us better this year (I would actually debate that) which is clearly what Dusty wants. However, Walt and Bob need to look at this long term and realize that Chapman needs to be a starter to make this team the best it can be and get their money's worth. If he stays as a closer, that's a huge mistake for a team that hasn't made many recently.

holster10
03-22-2013, 09:37 AM
in the end my opinion doesn't matter. here is the easiest way to look at this. at what point did chapman make a difference or matter in the postseason last year? the truth is he didn't make a difference or significant contribution. names that mattered from the postseason are bailey, arroyo and latos (the first game). common denominator? all are starting pitchers.

Beatlessp
03-22-2013, 09:51 AM
I wouldnt wanna be in the front office making this decision...all spring ive been seeing articles about the Reds making a mistake by starting chapman (espn, BR, Yahoo, etc....even saw that one scout said its Joba Chamberlain 2.0) and the first thing i see on ESPN's page when this came out....the Reds are making a mistake moving him back to closing.....damned if they do, damned if they dont kinda thing....

holster10
03-22-2013, 09:58 AM
one has to wonder what is going on and why the Reds are dragging their feet on this issue? something is definitely going on when I hear Baker, scouts, and media raving about Leake's performance this spring and yet he's getting lit up like a Christmas tree.

RedsBrick
03-22-2013, 09:59 AM
I think this team has planned for the future for several years with wise decisions being made along the way. We all know that a future is not guaranteed.

In my opinion, keeping Chapman in the bullpen is not a bad decision. If a bad decision was made, it was putting him there in the first place if they wanted to put him in the rotation in the future. Had they let him figure it out and had him starting all of last season, whether that be in AAA or with the Reds, they would know now without reservation if he was ready.

Back to the planning-for-the-future thought. The future is now. This team can win now. Chapman is a proven shutdown closer. Our bullpen from the 6th/7th innning on will dominate. Cueto, Latos, Bailey is a strong 1-3. Arroyo, Leake is not a bad 4-5. There are arms in the farm system that can develop.

I'm with Baker/Chapman form a thinking selfishly standpoint. It's been 23 years! I want Chapman doing what he's proven to be very good at doing. Is it short-sighted? Maybe. But 23 years has been long suffering.

holster10
03-22-2013, 10:04 AM
agree. chapman is a great closer and looked awesome at times during the "regular" season but when did his performance matter in the postseason? It didn't.

RedsBrick
03-22-2013, 10:52 AM
His performance was critical in getting to the post season. Once you get there every series stands on it's own. Who could have predicted the Reds would lose Cueto? No one. Who could predict that the bats would've gone completely silent at the absolute wrong time? Roll of the dice. Who can accurately predict right now if Chapman would be a dominant starter? Few, if anyone. Who can verify if Chapman can be a dominant closer? Ask any manager, GM or batter he's faced.

Would I like Chapman to be a dominant ace? Absolutley. Right now he doesn't appear to be confident in that role and he seems to be as a closer.

Hey, it's all a roll of the dice anyway, right? I'm being a selfish fan...Ha. I want him where I know he's a beast.

holster10
03-22-2013, 12:18 PM
nothing ventured. nothing gained.

malcontent
03-22-2013, 02:02 PM
His performance was critical in getting to the post season. Once you get there every series stands on it's own. Who could have predicted the Reds would lose Cueto? No one.
Completely agree.

If Angel Pagan doesn't step out of the box in the middle of Cueto's delivery, it's probably a different story.

I really hope Price and Baker have drilled it into his head to throw the damned ball the next time that happens, because with that delivery I can see it happening again.

And if Pagan does it again, he should get drilled.

texasdave
03-22-2013, 05:05 PM
Completely agree.

If Angel Pagan doesn't step out of the box in the middle of Cueto's delivery, it's probably a different story.

I really hope Price and Baker have drilled it into his head to throw the damned ball the next time that happens, because with that delivery I can see it happening again.

And if Pagan does it again, he should get drilled.

A pitcher is taught in Little League to go on and throw the pitch.

Norm Chortleton
03-22-2013, 05:25 PM
one has to wonder what is going on and why the Reds are dragging their feet on this issue? something is definitely going on when I hear Baker, scouts, and media raving about Leake's performance this spring and yet he's getting lit up like a Christmas tree.

Well, it's not like Leake has given up 10 runs in his last 6.1 innings or anything ... oh, wait :bang:

HDBoy
03-22-2013, 05:37 PM
As I write this, another Dodger just homered against the hapless Mike Leake and another followed with a double. Today's decision naming Leake as the fifth Reds starting pitcher casts dark clouds of futility over a promising team before the 2013 season has even started. When Chapman was being considered as a starter, an unmistakable feeling of hope was in the Spring air, and it was helping erase the bad memories of the Reds' epic playoffs stumble last fall.

The Reds have just two quality starters, and a third who MAY be coming into his own. But they now also have two starters who lose neary 50% of their games. Arroyo is a capable, but aging journeyman who everyone hopes has another year or two in him. But Leake leaves fans with a sense of hopelessness before every pitching appearance, even as opposing batters approach the stadium with a gleam in their eyes.

In a twisted way, keeping Chapman in the bullpen indicates that Manager Dusty Baker doesn't have complete faith in his own starting rotation, and of course, he shouldn't. Chances are that Leake will continue to give up runs in groups early in most of his starts (like today) and force the Reds to come from behind game after game after game. He is a head case on the road to mediocrity and the Reds should have banished him to the minor leagues the day he was caught stealing two years ago.

And what if something happens to Cueto again, or to Latos or Bailey? It will be a hopeless playoffs scenario all over again, that's what, with no prospective ace ready to step forward.

The Reds need four reliable, young starters, not just three. Clearly, Aroldis Chapman could become a dominating ace. You don't win a pennant this way. In Cincinnati, the hopes of spring just died.

malcontent
03-22-2013, 06:59 PM
A pitcher is taught in Little League to go on and throw the pitch.
I'm just wondering if it's a little different for Cueto with his delivery where he doesn't even see the plate at first....so that by the time he first notices the guy has backed out he's practically at his release point.

That's why I'm afraid this could happen again if they're not careful.

tsdavis11
03-22-2013, 11:23 PM
Wonder if I can get a refund on the package of tickets I bought a couple weeks back. If I have to suffer through watching Mike Leake pitch, I'll go insane.

Vander
03-23-2013, 02:42 PM
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2012.shtml

Look at last year's era+. The Reds had the best in the majors last year (127) with, basically, the same pitching staff as they have now. The next closest era+ was Tampa with a full seven point drop-off. Whether Chapman is in the rotation or the bullpen, this pitching staff is a force to be reckoned with.

I'm not saying that keeping Chapman as the closer is the right choice. But from what I'm reading, many seem to think that unless Chapman was named a starter, then suddenly this staff becomes weak. That reaction just ignores the stats, and is a complete overreaction.

DocRed
03-25-2013, 06:29 PM
Duhsty strikes again....

HDBoy
03-25-2013, 07:09 PM
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2012.shtml

Look at last year's era+. The Reds had the best in the majors last year (127) with, basically, the same pitching staff as they have now.

And it turned out that team still did not quite have the starting pitching depth necessary to make it out of the playoffs and into the World Series. Just this afternoon, that same pitching staff, led by Home Bailey, is getting shellacked by the Mariners in a 16-hit, 16-run outing, just a week before the season opener. Over the weekend, two other starters, Latos and Arroyo, apparently escaped serious injury when they each were hammered by hard-hit comebackers to the mound.

The Reds starting pitchers are skating on thin, late-winter ice with inadequate depth. After a few days of reflection, I still have a very bad feeling about the decision to keep Chapman in the bullpen. This fireballing Cuban is one the most exciting and overpowering pitchers to come along in years, and the Reds are relegating him to the bullpen. This guy has Bob Feller, Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson and Nolan Ryan-like stuff. And he's in the bullpen while Mike Leake and Bailey are giving up runs in bunches?

I don't get it. I will never get it.

Vander
03-25-2013, 08:52 PM
And it turned out that team still did not quite have the starting pitching depth necessary to make it out of the playoffs and into the World Series.

If you take away Matt Cain from the Giants, they don't win the World Series. If you take away Justin Verlander from the Tigers, they don't win the pennent. We lost Cueto after a single batter, an inning that made me feel very similar to when the Kimo incident went down. Cueto is our horse; our ace. Any team that loses that has a steep hill to climb. In essence, we just had extremely bad luck.

And remember, we still could have won that series even without Cueto, if it weren't for some boneheaded plays on defense, the base paths, and Dusty's head. I think we all know what I'm talking about... Still, I think it's a great sign that we actually managed to win two games in that series even with a game 1 tragedy.


Just this afternoon, that same pitching staff, led by Home Bailey, is getting shellacked by the Mariners in a 16-hit, 16-run outing, just a week before the season opener.

It's a preseason game against the Mariners. Perspective, man.

The eventual 2013 champions, whoever they may be (hopefully the Reds), will lose a lot of games this year; 50-60 at least. In those 50-60 losses, some will be blow outs, some will be against horrid teams, and some will be both. After those losses, members of their fan bases will storm their way to their computer screens to vent their rage at their computer screens, because clearly, something is rotten in Denmark. And yet, at the end of the season, when their team is hoisting the trophy, they will again storm their way to their computer screens and say that they were right all along, and that the haters were delusional all this time.

Do you know what none of them will say?

"Man, this World Series was nice and all... But imagine how great this would have felt if we had beaten the Mariners in March!"

It means nothing, man. They're all working out the final kinks in everything. Bailey had something like an 8.00 era last spring as well. Breathe....


Over the weekend, two other starters, Latos and Arroyo, apparently escaped serious injury when they each were hammered by hard-hit comebackers to the mound.

The Reds starting pitchers are skating on thin, late-winter ice with inadequate depth.

I, too, was holding my breath after those two went down. Fortunately, nothing came of it.

Unfortunately, we can't predict the future. However, if one of our starters happens to go down, I think we may be shocked at how capable Cingrani might be as a #5 for a few weeks. Depth is a concern for everyone, but we actually have more options than most.


After a few days of reflection, I still have a very bad feeling about the decision to keep Chapman in the bullpen. This fireballing Cuban is one the most exciting and overpowering pitchers to come along in years, and the Reds are relegating him to the bullpen. This guy has Bob Feller, Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson and Nolan Ryan-like stuff. And he's in the bullpen while Mike Leake and Bailey are giving up runs in bunches?

I think if Chapman were capable of pitching like Koufax or Feller right now, he'd be in the rotation. It's not like Jocketty has a desire to lose.

That said, I agree with you that he has too much talent to be in the bullpen. I just think you and many on this board are being a bit too overly dramatic.


I don't get it. I will never get it.

Remember my comment on predicting the... Oh hell, nevermind...

Johnny Fan
03-26-2013, 02:20 PM
Wonder if I can get a refund on the package of tickets I bought a couple weeks back. If I have to suffer through watching Mike Leake pitch, I'll go insane.


I think it is very unfair to rate a pitcher with just two years experience in proball. How many pitchers have made the major league roster in their first year in pro ball? Look at how look it took Bailey to get to where he is now.

Johnny Fan
03-26-2013, 02:24 PM
And it turned out that team still did not quite have the starting pitching depth necessary to make it out of the playoffs and into the World Series. Just this afternoon, that same pitching staff, led by Home Bailey, is getting shellacked by the Mariners in a 16-hit, 16-run outing, just a week before the season opener. Over the weekend, two other starters, Latos and Arroyo, apparently escaped serious injury when they each were hammered by hard-hit comebackers to the mound.

The Reds starting pitchers are skating on thin, late-winter ice with inadequate depth. After a few days of reflection, I still have a very bad feeling about the decision to keep Chapman in the bullpen. This fireballing Cuban is one the most exciting and overpowering pitchers to come along in years, and the Reds are relegating him to the bullpen. This guy has Bob Feller, Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson and Nolan Ryan-like stuff. And he's in the bullpen while Mike Leake and Bailey are giving up runs in bunches?

I don't get it. I will never get it.

If you look at the 5 games vs. the Giants I am kinda unclear on how you but the burden of loss on the pitching staff. IF our offense had done their job that series is over in 3 and we move on.

Also overall you can't look at performance in ST for much in my opinon because it is not a true gage of performance level, and lastly how can you compare Chapman to those you listed. He is a 1 pitch pitcher with his 2nd pitch being very questionable. Some day his talent level may be close to those HOF, but right now he isn't even in their talent level in any way.

Johnny Fan
03-26-2013, 02:27 PM
And it turned out that team still did not quite have the starting pitching depth necessary to make it out of the playoffs and into the World Series. Just this afternoon, that same pitching staff, led by Home Bailey, is getting shellacked by the Mariners in a 16-hit, 16-run outing, just a week before the season opener. Over the weekend, two other starters, Latos and Arroyo, apparently escaped serious injury when they each were hammered by hard-hit comebackers to the mound.

The Reds starting pitchers are skating on thin, late-winter ice with inadequate depth. After a few days of reflection, I still have a very bad feeling about the decision to keep Chapman in the bullpen. This fireballing Cuban is one the most exciting and overpowering pitchers to come along in years, and the Reds are relegating him to the bullpen. This guy has Bob Feller, Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson and Nolan Ryan-like stuff. And he's in the bullpen while Mike Leake and Bailey are giving up runs in bunches?

I don't get it. I will never get it.

How many teams have quality ML level starters in their system. Right now I would say for short term use we have 2-3 guys in the pen who could start and 2 in AAA who could spart start. I doubt many teams have that level.

Phoenix2
03-30-2013, 02:16 AM
Chapman has the potential to be the second coming of Randy Johnson. And if so it would have made the Reds truly dominant. Now we will never know what might have been.

jaydeebee21
03-30-2013, 12:35 PM
As I write this, another Dodger just homered against the hapless Mike Leake and another followed with a double. Today's decision naming Leake as the fifth Reds starting pitcher casts dark clouds of futility over a promising team before the 2013 season has even started. When Chapman was being considered as a starter, an unmistakable feeling of hope was in the Spring air, and it was helping erase the bad memories of the Reds' epic playoffs stumble last fall.

The Reds have just two quality starters, and a third who MAY be coming into his own. But they now also have two starters who lose neary 50% of their games. Arroyo is a capable, but aging journeyman who everyone hopes has another year or two in him. But Leake leaves fans with a sense of hopelessness before every pitching appearance, even as opposing batters approach the stadium with a gleam in their eyes.

In a twisted way, keeping Chapman in the bullpen indicates that Manager Dusty Baker doesn't have complete faith in his own starting rotation, and of course, he shouldn't. Chances are that Leake will continue to give up runs in groups early in most of his starts (like today) and force the Reds to come from behind game after game after game. He is a head case on the road to mediocrity and the Reds should have banished him to the minor leagues the day he was caught stealing two years ago.

And what if something happens to Cueto again, or to Latos or Bailey? It will be a hopeless playoffs scenario all over again, that's what, with no prospective ace ready to step forward.

The Reds need four reliable, young starters, not just three. Clearly, Aroldis Chapman could become a dominating ace. You don't win a pennant this way. In Cincinnati, the hopes of spring just died.

whilst i dont agree with the moving of Chapman back to closer.

Reds have more then 2 quality starters, Latos and Cueto are obviously the best two.

Homer really came on last year and youre being harsh on Arroyo calling him a journeyman. He has been at least a middle of the rotation stater for 10 years.

He has a career WAR of 24.0 that points to more then a journeyman.

A journeyman is a player that bounces around teams whilst never providing a little more then replacement value.

DGullett35
03-30-2013, 08:26 PM
Chapman has one and a half pitches. The best fastball in the game and a sometimes decent slider. That had to play somewhat of a factor. I know he was working on more pitches this spring but hes still mostly a fastball guy. look at all the guys teams have had to make decisions on either being closer or starter(Joba, Sale, CJ Wilson ect,) and a big part of that is that the team and the player have to be 100% on the same page. Chapman commented that hed do whatever the team wanted him to do but that hed rather close. That was the first red flag in him starting. I seem to be in the minority here but I think as of right now in this 2013 season Chapman needs to be anchoring the pen and blowing guys away. On days hes able to pitch each game has the potential to be only an 8 inning game. Other than the Braves and Yankees and maybe the Rays with Rodney no other teams can really say that. I trust Jocketty and Baker(yea I just said that) to make the right decision.

OfficerRodFarva
03-31-2013, 10:26 AM
Chapman has one and a half pitches. The best fastball in the game and a sometimes decent slider. That had to play somewhat of a factor. I know he was working on more pitches this spring but hes still mostly a fastball guy. look at all the guys teams have had to make decisions on either being closer or starter(Joba, Sale, CJ Wilson ect,) and a big part of that is that the team and the player have to be 100% on the same page. Chapman commented that hed do whatever the team wanted him to do but that hed rather close. That was the first red flag in him starting. I seem to be in the minority here but I think as of right now in this 2013 season Chapman needs to be anchoring the pen and blowing guys away. On days hes able to pitch each game has the potential to be only an 8 inning game. Other than the Braves and Yankees and maybe the Rays with Rodney no other teams can really say that. I trust Jocketty and Baker(yea I just said that) to make the right decision.

All of this, plus the fact that Leake is more than capable as a #5 starter.
Perfectly OK with Chapman closing.

Mastodon
04-06-2013, 03:07 AM
Normally I say do what is best for the long term, but I am hungry for a championship of some kind. So this year I say do what wins right now.

tomnuetten
04-06-2013, 01:30 PM
I would like to see chapman as (effectiv) starter...

but I doubt that he will be that dominant... his second and third pitches are (at the moment) to inconsistent and not good enough...

he canīt throw 100 pitches a game with 97avg... if he loses his velocity he isnīt as tough to hit against...