PDA

View Full Version : Right handed power bat/left field



Old school 1983
04-23-2013, 12:14 PM
The one issue I think this team needs to address is a legitimate right handed power bat to put in between Votto and Bruce. When they had that in Gomes when he was on fire the first part of 2010 this team took off. Same with ludwick last year. I really think its the one piece this team needs to really be the best team in baseball without argument, and perhaps one of the greatest reds teams ever.

That being said some of the names I hear being throw around on here are nothing but stop gap fill ins. That's been the reds issue with a left fielder/right handed power bat for years.

Furthermore I don't understand why the replacement has to come in the form of an outfielder. With Hamilton and lutz in the wings as well as winker down the road, and the hope choo can be resigned, the outfield situation appears crowded to me. Why not try to look into third basemen as well?

I like Frazier, but at the same time I'm not as high on him as some reds fans. This is mainly due to what is see as average at best D at third and I really don't think that, while he can be an offensive contributer, that he can be counted on as a primary run producer because he seems very streaky at the plate, is a free swinger that doesn't work counts, and honestly I don't think he handles pitchers with anything over average stuff that well, and in the playoffs average pitchers are a rarity.

I'm not completely down on the guy. I'm not saying give him away. I'm saying lets look realistically at it. Coupled with some pitching prospects I think he could help bring in a legitimate right handed bat to either left or third. Think about it. If he could help land a Headley or young at third, and lutz or Hamilton take over in the outfield the team is improved. Or if he could help land Stanton for lack of another name off the top of my head or another legit righty power bat and use hannahan at third for D, then the team is better in my opinion.

Any thoughts? I think I'd be definitely something to think about at the deadline if Frazier has picked up the consistency or improved at third. I think Walt may have had that thought last year too. If I recall correctly Frazier was benched for Cairo the night of the game before the deadline last year.

coachpipe
04-23-2013, 12:35 PM
Doesnt Phillips have the most RBIs in baseball right now? I know its early and a small sample size, but i think hes done more than hes been asked to do.

What exactly is the power hitter you refer to? In my eyes, Id like a 4 hole hitter to be the guy to hit the ball solid and drive the runners in. Exactly what phillips is doing. I dont want a guy who hits a homer and then takes the next few at bats off.

As far as Frazier, the guy so far has made some great plays down at the hot corner. Yes hes made a few errors, but no one is perfect.

If Hamilton is ready next year, which i dont think he will be, but lets just say he is and plays like he belongs here. I would 100% be for signing Choo to play left field.

1.Choo
2. Hamilton
3. Votto
4. Phillips
5. Bruce
6.Frazier
7.Hanigan/Mes
8. Cozart

You have Votto, Phillips, Bruce, Frazier and Mes who will hit you in some runs. There is no need for a BIG bat, unless you plan on getting rid of Bruce, because he is in a way the definition of a POWER bat. even though he is left handed and not a right handed power bat which you are speaking of. But I love what phillips does as the 4. too many power bats = too many strike outs and too many runners left on base

Old school 1983
04-23-2013, 01:11 PM
Doesnt Phillips have the most RBIs in baseball right now? I know its early and a small sample size, but i think hes done more than hes been asked to do.

What exactly is the power hitter you refer to? In my eyes, Id like a 4 hole hitter to be the guy to hit the ball solid and drive the runners in. Exactly what phillips is doing. I dont want a guy who hits a homer and then takes the next few at bats off.

As far as Frazier, the guy so far has made some great plays down at the hot corner. Yes hes made a few errors, but no one is perfect.

If Hamilton is ready next year, which i dont think he will be, but lets just say he is and plays like he belongs here. I would 100% be for signing Choo to play left field.

1.Choo
2. Hamilton
3. Votto
4. Phillips
5. Bruce
6.Frazier
7.Hanigan/Mes
8. Cozart

You have Votto, Phillips, Bruce, Frazier and Mes who will hit you in some runs. There is no need for a BIG bat, unless you plan on getting rid of Bruce, because he is in a way the definition of a POWER bat. even though he is left handed and not a right handed power bat which you are speaking of. But I love what phillips does as the 4. too many power bats = too many strike outs and too many runners left on base

Phillips is doing a great job no doubt. I just can't see him sustaining it all year. My definition of a legit cleanup hitter is someone who can work a count has more pop than Phillips and has shown he has done it consistently. One of my observations of this season is that against above average pitching, Votto is getting pitched around and they are going right after Phillips Bruce and Frazier. And getting strikeouts of Bruce and Frazier. And in D who would you rather have a hot smash hit to in the playoffs. Headley, Young, or Frazier? I'm not saying the guy is a bad player but I'm saying to say via trade there may be better options.

Old school 1983
04-23-2013, 01:25 PM
1.Choo
2. Hamilton
3. Votto
4. Phillips
5. Bruce
6.Frazier
7.Hanigan/Mes
8. Cozart



In a playoff series which lineup would you rather have that or:

Choo
Phillips
Votto
Headley/young
Bruce
Ludwick ( back from Injury)
Mesoraco
Cozart

Or

Choo
Hamilton
Votto
Headley/young
Bruce
Phillips
Mes
Cozart

Either way the D and offense at third are improved. And with Hamilton in CF and choo in left there'd be better D in the outfield too and more speed in the lineup.

And on D I'm not asking for perfection but I'd take someone who is better overall every time so long as the O doesn't drop off.

Birdman007
04-23-2013, 01:32 PM
Obviously the Reds would love to have Headley but you're delusional if you think it's actually going to happen. Frazier has been very good for the Reds so far this season.

coachpipe
04-23-2013, 01:41 PM
In a playoff series which lineup would you rather have that or:

Choo
Phillips
Votto
Headley/young
Bruce
Ludwick ( back from Injury)
Mesoraco
Cozart

Or

Choo
Hamilton
Votto
Headley/young
Bruce
Phillips
Mes
Cozart

Either way the D and offense at third are improved. And with Hamilton in CF and choo in left there'd be better D in the outfield too and more speed in the lineup.

And on D I'm not asking for perfection but I'd take someone who is better overall every time so long as the O doesn't drop off.

I understand what you are saying but there is ALWAYS someone better out there. You cant have all the best players in the game, unless you pay them like they are all the best players in the game...ala the Yankees, but that has still proven to not work. baseball is still very much a whole team effort. 9-25 players a game(depending on the situation) will have to contribute to get the W. Pitching is just as important as hitting. If you stop them from scoring, only 1 run wins it.

But as far as trading, I dont think the Reds will give up on Frazier any time soon. He seems to not only be a Fan favorite, but an inhouse favorite aswell. The guy has a great personality and will for the game. Lets just say they do trade for Young or Headley...MAYBE, just maybe Frazier leaving would hurt the chemistry in the dugout. If it were a video game, you could turn that off and/or have all trades accepted and trade a single A pitcher Jo shmo for Headley, but it isnt a video game and I, along with many others love what Frazier is doing

Old school 1983
04-23-2013, 01:45 PM
Obviously the Reds would love to have Headley but you're delusional if you think it's actually going to happen. Frazier has been very good for the Reds so far this season.

I don't think it's quite to the level of delusion. And I know Frazier is good but if you offered the padres pitching prospects leake and maybe ondrusek and Arredondo I think they'd consider.

Old school 1983
04-23-2013, 01:47 PM
I understand what you are saying but there is ALWAYS someone better out there. You cant have all the best players in the game, unless you pay them like they are all the best players in the game...ala the Yankees, but that has still proven to not work. baseball is still very much a whole team effort. 9-25 players a game(depending on the situation) will have to contribute to get the W. Pitching is just as important as hitting. If you stop them from scoring, only 1 run wins it.

But as far as trading, I dont think the Reds will give up on Frazier any time soon. He seems to not only be a Fan favorite, but an inhouse favorite aswell. The guy has a great personality and will for the game. Lets just say they do trade for Young or Headley...MAYBE, just maybe Frazier leaving would hurt the chemistry in the dugout. If it were a video game, you could turn that off and/or have all trades accepted and trade a single A pitcher Jo shmo for Headley, but it isnt a video game and I, along with many others love what Frazier is doing

I know chemistry is an issue, but I also believe the Reds hang onto fan favorites a little too long when there are better options. I think to get Headley you'd have to give Frazier up but for young idk. He's older and the phillies need outfield help and maybe pitching that is or almost is major league ready. If a deal could be pulled to bring him here without dealing Todd then I say that'd be a win win.

Old school 1983
04-23-2013, 02:04 PM
I was never saying give Frazier and Jo shmoe A ball for Headley. Frazier is a good young player and brings intangibles to the clubhouse as you mentioned. Leake is a good young pitching prospect who'd prosper in a large park like petco. Corcino is a nice young pitching prospect. Ondrudek and Arredondo are nice pen pieces under control for more than one year. Throw in a lamarre or heisey or lutz I think the padres would have to consider it. And with that trade the only part of your team that may not improve is AAA pitching depth. But honestly for that you can find a scrap heap guy who could do ok. You may or may not use him anyway and he'd never see the playoffs. If they wanted Stephenson Hamilton or travieso I'd have to consider with who else but in that case I'd probably pass and see what it'd take to get Young. My whole point is if you can use Frazier in a trade that makes the team better do it.

Old school 1983
04-23-2013, 04:24 PM
But qualities in a player I'd use in a trade are

More pop than Phillips. Pop that plays outside of GABP
Better plate discipline than Frazier

If at 3b: better D than Frazier
If in LF: at least on par with D with Ludwick

Guys I'd look at:

Upper echelon: (low probability we could get them)
Headley
Stanton
Trumbo

Middle echelons:
Young
Willingham
Morse

Lower: at a risk
Bay (maybe a GABP resurgence like Luddy last year)

There are other in house options too as well as other players that may not fit the mold I like. Or outside the box ideas. Lets discuss those here too

Old school 1983
04-23-2013, 04:48 PM
I almost feel like I'm talking to myself at this point but a guy I'd love to get that'd be cheap that'd help the team that's out of my mold. Placido Polanco. He'd be cheap he gives a good professional at bat. Bat him second. Put him at third and Frazier in left.

EMAW
04-23-2013, 09:08 PM
Willingham would be a perfect fit

Old school 1983
04-23-2013, 09:54 PM
Willingham would be a perfect fit

Would be a good fit and is under contract for a couple years if I'm not mistaken.

Redsfansince72
04-23-2013, 11:09 PM
if Cingrani keeps looking this good, Could a move be made to shore up leftfield with a power pat like Willingham?? Heisey and Leake for him? moving Brandon back to 2nd in the order and Willingham 4th? just curious but the money would be the question. So would they look at Jason Bay as a cheaper option? wouldnt take much in a trade..

Old school 1983
04-23-2013, 11:18 PM
if Cingrani keeps looking this good, Could a move be made to shore up leftfield with a power pat like Willingham?? Heisey and Leake for him? moving Brandon back to 2nd in the order and Willingham 4th? just curious but the money would be the question. So would they look at Jason Bay as a cheaper option? wouldnt take much in a trade..

No bay wouldn't. It'd be low risk high reward gamble and I don't think he could do any worse than heisey in the lineup. Start him down low in the order and if he heats up move him up. If he flops no one cares if he goes. I'd really like Michael Young from the phillies. He is a good right handed hitter with the ability to work a count and a history as a 100 RBI guy that doesn't solely rely on the homer to knock those runs in. Plays better defense than Frazier too. I don't think he'd come cheap but considering his age I don't think he'd be costly either.

Jamz
04-24-2013, 09:44 AM
I don't know that we need a power bat, but I wouldn't mind making a move for one of Josh Willingham, Desmond Jennings or Alex Gordon. I have very little faith in Ryan Ludwick, and while I think that Heisey or Paul are good options off the bench, they're not every day players and borderline platoon players.

coachpipe
04-24-2013, 10:18 AM
I like the willingham idea. I was really pissed last year when the reds missed out on him and he signed with the twins..I love Luddy but singing willingham would have been 100000 times better

coachpipe
04-24-2013, 10:19 AM
and id also be down to trade heisey for an upgrade with larosas for a free large 1 topping pizza instead of the 4 topping small

Old school 1983
04-24-2013, 10:34 AM
I don't know that we need a power bat, but I wouldn't mind making a move for one of Josh Willingham, Desmond Jennings or Alex Gordon. I have very little faith in Ryan Ludwick, and while I think that Heisey or Paul are good options off the bench, they're not every day players and borderline platoon players.

Maybe power bat was a bad use of wording. I'd like a right handed enforcer between votto and Bruce. A guy with some pop but that can also work a count and doesn't strictly rely on the homer as his only means of production. Ludwick was great for the reds last year but coming back from that injury idk. I like Gordon's game but he is left handed and dusty would have to stack lefties in the lineup. Unfortunately that's a consideration. I totally agree that heisey and Paul are platoon guys. They can be productive if you pick the right spot but are exposed when they get regular play.

Old school 1983
04-24-2013, 10:35 AM
I like the willingham idea. I was really pissed last year when the reds missed out on him and he signed with the twins..I love Luddy but singing willingham would have been 100000 times better

So was I. He's solid, not too old and has a history or run production and power that could play outside of great American.