Brooke Jacoby

[Rantly]

...any thoughts?

[Redsfansince72]

if they come home 1-9 on this road trip he better have his bags packed. HE is the ONLY hitting coach since "Mr Baseball Guy" Narron!!.. I want a guy that talks to these hitters DURING the game, not sit on the bench chewing sun flower seeds.. I want a clucth hitting .300 power hitter to be the batting coach like Kevin Mitchell or Dave Parker.. Enough of this unprepared team and the excuses we"we faced the other teams best pitchers and couldnt find a hole" Goodness.. Time for a wake up call on this team!! sucking on the road being the worst road team doesnt get you to the post season!!

[TDogg]

Even as a Cardinals fan...if you guys don't light up Dan Haren today, yeah, this guy should have a seat that is warm and beginning to get hot.

[Old school 1983]

I think hitting coaches are easy targets. Sure they help players work on their hitting but by the time players get to the majors their habits and skill sets aren't set in stone but they are very well engrained. For whatever reason the players the reds develop and choose to keep in the system are low plate discipline guys that have plus pop. This leads to tons of strikeouts or offensive outbursts and the situation that we have with their lineup now.

Lets look at it. Bruce. Plus power. Low discipline. One dimensional hitter

Frazier seems like a lesser version of Bruce.

Cozart. Plus pop for a SS but one dimensional pull hitter. When was the last time he went the other way?

Heisey. Lesser version on cozart with more pop.

Votto. I consider him an anomaly. His approach is unique and from what I've seen on him is more of his own creation than the reds system.

Mesoraco. Seems to be showing decent discipline this guest but last year seemed to fit the plus pop low discipline mold. Although I think he doesn't have enough PAs to make a full determination.

Even Bham our prospect that's supposed to be an on base guy and leadoff hitter has contact and K issues.

So it looks less like a a hitting coach issue to me and more like a development/personnel brought in issue

So I think the hitting coach can only do so much if the players he are given are of mostly one type. Undisciplined power guys. That's what the reds develop and it shows on the field. Hopefully with the addition of Choo and the draft of Winker it shows the reds are having a paradigm shift away from plus pop low discipline to more plate discipline and higher OBP.

[NebraskaRed]

Blaming the coach is the easy way to explain why a team's offense goes to sleep the way the Reds' have these past few games. But the truth is that there is never one reason why something like this happens. It's a combination of so many things (yes, maybe coaching is one of them), that you can never say "If they do this, the team will start hitting"

Also, blaming the coach lets the player off the hook. You can't get in the batter's box and swing for them, no matter how much coaching you do.

[TDogg]

Good points, all. Problem is...you can't fire the players, but you can't keep the status quo either. So far today, Haren is keeping you contained and you're down 2-0. SOMEBODY has to fall on their sword for the team.

[Redscott]

It has to be the approach. Why do they have success at home, but not on the road?

[Old school 1983]

It has to be the approach. Why do they have success at home, but not on the road?

The teams and pitching they've faced at home has not been as good as the pitching they've faced on the road. When they were swept by Pittsburgh other than being shut down by Burnett they out runs on the board. Other than that you've had the cards and bats who have excellent pitching for the most part. Combine that with the GABP effect and there it is.

[Old school 1983]

Nats*

[Rantly]

Thanks for input
I really don't have a good or bad opinion about him.
As long as he has been here I seem to know nothing about him which can be good or bad I guess. It just seems to me, besides Votto, who probably does not need a hitting instructor, we are not getting the best out of the talent we have offensively.

[Old school 1983]

Thanks for input
I really don't have a good or bad opinion about him.
As long as he has been here I seem to know nothing about him which can be good or bad I guess. It just seems to me, besides Votto, who probably does not need a hitting instructor, we are not getting the best out of the talent we have offensively.

That or the talent isn't as good as we think it is or as a unit it's not very effective together.

[Goose]

If the hitting coach has little to no effect on your hitting, why have a hitting coach?

[Redscott]

If the hitting coach has little to no effect on your hitting, why have a hitting coach?
They are there to make adjustments, not make wholesale changes. It could be the height of their hands, their stride, or how high they lift their front foot. They film, analyze and help critique. If you know anything about Vottos regime, he doesn't need a hitting coach, but he does need support.

[GotHeeeeem]

I would like to hear what people think a Hitting Coach does on a day to day basis. I bet 90% have no idea.

[Goose]

They are there to make adjustments, not make wholesale changes. It could be the height of their hands, their stride, or how high they lift their front foot. They film, analyze and help critique. If you know anything about Vottos regime, he doesn't need a hitting coach, but he does need support.

I agree, but some earlier responses in this thread made it sound like the hitting coach can't do anything about the hitters. I think good hitting coaches and pitching coaches can have a very positive effect on the performances of the players. Bad ones can have negative or neutral effects.

[RedlegJake]

Hitting coaches generally leave established players alone until they are asked for help. They watch them to be sure they are mechanically the same as when they are "on" and might offer suggestions if they see a flaw(meaning a change which is different depending on each players style). The manager and coach do set a tone somewhat...aggressive or patient etc that may ripple thru somewhat. New players just up and guys without solid track records get more attention but ML hitting coaches are mostly about keeping players in each individual's groove rather making wholesale changes. They are keeping the players loose watching film to nit pick inconsistencies mechanically then,alerting the player where his mechanics are off. Sometimes a guy really scuffling might ask help making a wholesale change but that is unusual. When a lineup had a lot of Ks, streaky hitters and inconsistent lines it is the players you have not who the coach is. Frazier and Votto are 2 who have praised Jacoby. It ain't Brook lunging at low off speed stuff outside when Bruce bats....nor can he change that tendency. It lies with Bruce and his ability to recognize what he is seeing. Most hitting coaches are fairly neutral when it comes to making any big improvements. They mostly strive for mechanical consistency in how each player hits. The Charley Lau or Ted K coaches who do seem to make big differences are rare. Also the idea Parker or any great hitter would make a good hitting coach is simply bogus. Ted Williams said and admitted he was a poor coach of hitting because he never understood how guys couldn't see what he did or do what he did. When you can sometimes its hard to understand why others can't. I am not defending Jacoby. I believe he is as good as most ML coaches. He ain't a hitters Brian Price, that's for sure. I think KG Sr might make a good coach but perhaps they see him as more valuable working with developing players.

[markymark69]

Many pretty typical responses on here. I do not disagree, but I will present this. Nobody ever talks about Jacoby when this team is hitting well. Hard to criticize someone when things are going bad, if we can't praise when things are going good.

It's always the coach until and unless the player is doing well.

That being said, a new voice would not be a terrible thing.

[dwyerbrg]

To me the hitting issues we have are entirely on the players. Dusty laments the strikeouts yet they still strikeout. How do you get through to guys who don't want to be reached? Doesn't matter who the hitting coach, manager, bench coach, etc is if the players aren't willing to do what is asked of them...there are enough veterans on this team that a demotion to wake someone up is not even in the cards for most, if not all, of these guys.

[texasdave]

Does anyone know if Brooke Jacoby has total autonomy when it comes to the hitters and their approach to hitting? Or is he just implementing Dusty's hitting philosophy? Reds' hitting has not been terrible the last three years. I think that team bias is coming into play when it comes to fans' expectations. This team is not a great offensive machine. When the home runs are flying they can pile up the runs. If the ball stays in the park they struggle to score. They are not as good as their fans's expect them to be. But they aren't bad.

[Old school 1983]

Does anyone know if Brooke Jacoby has total autonomy when it comes to the hitters and their approach to hitting? Or is he just implementing Dusty's hitting philosophy? Reds' hitting has not been terrible the last three years. I think that team bias is coming into play when it comes to fans' expectations. This team is not a great offensive machine. When the home runs are flying they can pile up the runs. If the ball stays in the park they struggle to score. They are not as good as their fans's expect them to be. But they aren't bad.

You make a great point about expectations. Imagine if Bruce put up a Griffey 2000 season, it'd be his coming out party, but when Griffey did it it was meh. You're very correct about the home run aspect of the reds offense. IMO it needs to become more balanced so runs can be produced as well as launched. But really that's player/personnel type decisions. So it really not a jacoby issue or even a dusty issue in a way but mostly a Walt issue and the makeup of the lineup and players developed issue.

In his time with the reds he's been interested in adding leadership with role, which goes hand in hand with prospect development. After that he seemed to be net rested in building pitching. Latos, Marshall, broxton. Most if his offensive additions have been attempts to hsin lightning in a bottle or a hope someone woukd regain a previous form. So maybe with the choo move it will start a trend to fix the offense.

[New York Red]

I would like to hear what people think a Hitting Coach does on a day to day basis. I bet 90% have no idea.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess ... teach hitting? Whatever their job is, the combo of Jacoby and Baker doesn't get it done, and never has.

[BEETTLEBUG]

Parker, Mitchell, Vaughn ? Any other options

[RedlegJake]

Parker, Mitchell, Vaughn ? Any other options

Why? because they all had attitudes and could hit? That has zero to do with being able to teach. Charley Lau was a dismal hitter but a legendary teacher of it. Better to find someone already coaching with a consistently good team record for the style you want. Or look in the Reds own system where KG Sr is in Bakersfield. You think he hasn't helped Billy or Yorman or others? They rave about him....

[RedlegJake]

Does anyone know if Brooke Jacoby has total autonomy when it comes to the hitters and their approach to hitting? Or is he just implementing Dusty's hitting philosophy? Reds' hitting has not been terrible the last three years. I think that team bias is coming into play when it comes to fans' expectations. This team is not a great offensive machine. When the home runs are flying they can pile up the runs. If the ball stays in the park they struggle to score. They are not as good as their fans's expect them to be. But they aren't bad.

Dave I honestly don't know by way of inside info or anything but I have no doubts myself that Dusty and aggressive swing away hitting are closely linked. I remember last year he emohasized eaiting out Verlander and it was the most disciplined patient hitting I saw all year and it worked. Next night they were hacking away again. My question for Dusty would be "if it works against the best pitcher in the game why not use that approach against all pitchers" and second " if you can insist on patience and discipline and get it for one game why can't you insist on it every day?"

[gilpdawg]

I would like to hear what people think a Hitting Coach does on a day to day basis. I bet 90% have no idea.

Ever read Ball Four? The coaches don't have as big of a role as people think.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Old school 1983]

Why? because they all had attitudes and could hit? That has zero to do with being able to teach. Charley Lau was a dismal hitter but a legendary teacher of it. Better to find someone already coaching with a consistently good team record for the style you want. Or look in the Reds own system where KG Sr is in Bakersfield. You think he hasn't helped Billy or Yorman or others? They rave about him....

As someone with a background in teaching I'm going to have to agree with this. Sometimes the best guys make the worst teachers because they expect the players to work as hard as they did or catch in as quickly as they did.

[Old school 1983]

Dave I honestly don't know by way of inside info or anything but I have no doubts myself that Dusty and aggressive swing away hitting are closely linked. I remember last year he emohasized eaiting out Verlander and it was the most disciplined patient hitting I saw all year and it worked. Next night they were hacking away again. My question for Dusty would be "if it works against the best pitcher in the game why not use that approach against all pitchers" and second " if you can insist on patience and discipline and get it for one game why can't you insist on it every day?"

If the reds could do that, they'd be such a better team and way more dangerous against good pitching. But I've heard more than one comment from dusty about him wanting his players to go after pitches early in the count. It's all about being selective. If there's a meatball the first pitch by all means crush it. If its not your pitch lay off. You get three strikes for a reason. Use them. Don't waste them swinging at trash. Yes I know easier said than done.

[DocRed]

Get rid of him and get rid of Speier too....this is just my opinion.