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View Full Version : Trade time: Bruce and Leake for a cleanup hitter



HDBoy
04-28-2013, 07:05 PM
It's now or never: the Reds need to shakeup this team with a blockbuster trade for a more reliable power hitter/right fielder. I like Bruce, but he's not getting it done. Cingrani is should be replacing Leake in the rotation, who clearly also needs a change if scenery. I'd even nose around for a third warm body to sweeten the deal and get a big name guy with big numbers. Maybe Heisey. The Reds need to change the chemistry.

So, who's available?

HDBoy
04-28-2013, 07:13 PM
Oops. I did not see the other new thread proposing outfielder trade ideas. Sorry. Maybe an admin wants to merge the two, though this thread is more about the despearate need for a blockbuster trade to obtain a big name cleanup hitter...no nibbling around the edges on this. Let's get a Hall of Fame outfielder.

EMAW
04-28-2013, 07:34 PM
Bruce will be good for 30/100 not sure somewhere better is available

Old school 1983
04-28-2013, 07:59 PM
It's now or never: the Reds need to shakeup this team with a blockbuster trade for a more reliable power hitter/right fielder. I like Bruce, but he's not getting it done. Cingrani is should be replacing Leake in the rotation, who clearly also needs a change if scenery. I'd even nose around for a third warm body to sweeten the deal and get a big name guy with big numbers. Maybe Heisey. The Reds need to change the chemistry.

So, who's available?

Bruce's defense is too important, especially with choo in center, and when he gets hot hes babe ruth. Now Frazier and leake and a prospect for a 4 hole hitter. It's be up for that. Fraziers D is easly replaceable and honestly I'm not sold on his bat versus quality pitching. Plus his contract is less and Bruce's so he'd be easier to move.

RedTeamGo!
04-28-2013, 08:21 PM
Good idea! Lets trade jay Bruce when his stock is low! Brilliant!

cincyredway
04-28-2013, 08:27 PM
The problem I see with trading Frazier is u still have a hole somewhere. If u trade him for a left fielder who plays third. I think Frazier will give u 25 home runs and probably 70-80rbi and his d isn't that bad, so I can't see him getting traded and he is not making very much $.

kfm
04-28-2013, 08:34 PM
Is this thread serious?

Old school 1983
04-28-2013, 08:41 PM
The problem I see with trading Frazier is u still have a hole somewhere. If u trade him for a left fielder who plays third. I think Frazier will give u 25 home runs and probably 70-80rbi and his d isn't that bad, so I can't see him getting traded and he is not making very much $.

If you use him in a trade for a right handed hitter that is better than he is, that hitter will take his place in the lineup. Hannahan is a superior glove in the field by far so the D would be better too. Im sure you could call up donald or hrod to platoon. So far the comments I've gotten on fraziers D is oh he's not that bad or no ones perfect or stuff around those lines. If you can use him to get better do it. This isnt a shot at you, Hes a nice piece but people around here treat him like some kind of perennial all star. He's an average at best defender who seriously struggles against good pitching and pads his numbers versus average to below average pitching. A lesser version of Bruce. I'm not saying I want him moved but if I had to choose between Bruce and Frazier being traded I pick Frazier all day long unless the return is insane.

Old school 1983
04-28-2013, 08:49 PM
Is this thread serious?

I hope not......unless we can dupe the rays into giving us price and longoria for them. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

cincyredway
04-28-2013, 08:55 PM
I understand what u r saying , I just don't see the benefit in trading Frazier and then playing hanahan and a platoon at third.
Actually after David wright u could make the argument that Frazier is the second best 3rd baseman I. The NLright now. Headley and freeze r good but both have been hurt, Sandoval ...meh Hanley -hurt. I am not sure if I would trade Frazier for any 3rd baseman but wright and probably headley.

Old school 1983
04-28-2013, 09:28 PM
I understand what u r saying , I just don't see the benefit in trading Frazier and then playing hanahan and a platoon at third.
Actually after David wright u could make the argument that Frazier is the second best 3rd baseman I. The NLright now. Headley and freeze r good but both have been hurt, Sandoval ...meh Hanley -hurt. I am not sure if I would trade Frazier for any 3rd baseman but wright and probably headley.

I'd use him in a trade for Headley as far as NL third basemen go. Wright won't be traded unless loria buys the mets. Now for outfielders there's quite a few I'd use him in a trade for. Remember the reds won last year because of pitching and D. Our D this year is not as good with choo in center. So part of my reasoning to go after a third basemen is so we can get a centerfield and put choo in a corner. Improve the defense there. Defense is huge especially in GABP. One error or the inability to get to a ball that a superior defender could get to can cost you big time. So with an outfielder that is equal or greater than fraziers production plus with hannahan and whoever at third the team will be better. The outfielder will match Todd and I'm sure hannahan and whoever could match what we've gotten out of left. Actually part of me says call Hrod up instead of lutz put Frazier in left and platoon hannahan and Hrod at third. I think the overall value will be better than the situation we have now.

HDBoy
04-29-2013, 09:08 PM
Some interesting ideas are surfacing here. Somehow, the Reds' team chemistry just isn't quite jelling and I wonder if this group really can rise to championship caliber. That said, they sure were fun to watch during that Post-Votto injury run last year. However, they still have roller-coaster tendencies and I still think Bruce is too inconsistent to be a #4 or #5 hitter.

The bottom line: I think this team is going to need a shake up this year. The Reds cannot afford to wait another year to get it together.

HDBoy
04-29-2013, 09:10 PM
And I don't really like the idea I trading Frazier. He's a key part of the good side of this team's chemistry.

GotHeeeeem
04-29-2013, 09:39 PM
Name one cleanup hitter a team is gunna give you for them?

Ghosts of 1990
04-29-2013, 10:12 PM
They're not going to just trade Bruce... but he is sealing his fate/legacy as a player in the game of baseball as just "a streaky guy". It speaks volumes that the organization did not want to lock him up to an even longer term deal this past offseason when Bruce camp wanted to do so--it was basically to extend his contract in the same value range it is in now. Says the organization is not so convinced on his ability and quite frankly at this point why would they be.

Old school 1983
04-29-2013, 10:41 PM
Name one cleanup hitter a team is gunna give you for them?

For Frazier straight up none but if you package him with leake and prospects I'm sure there's someone out there

Old school 1983
04-29-2013, 10:44 PM
They're not going to just trade Bruce... but he is sealing his fate/legacy as a player in the game of baseball as just "a streaky guy". It speaks volumes that the organization did not want to lock him up to an even longer term deal this past offseason when Bruce camp wanted to do so--it was basically to extend his contract in the same value range it is in now. Says the organization is not so convinced on his ability and quite frankly at this point why would they be.

One of the most insightful posts on Bruce I've seen on here.

Vottomatic
04-30-2013, 11:46 AM
They're not going to just trade Bruce... but he is sealing his fate/legacy as a player in the game of baseball as just "a streaky guy". It speaks volumes that the organization did not want to lock him up to an even longer term deal this past offseason when Bruce camp wanted to do so--it was basically to extend his contract in the same value range it is in now. Says the organization is not so convinced on his ability and quite frankly at this point why would they be.

Good post, and I agree.

I think this is kind of a make or break year for Jay, in terms of his future with the team.

jhu1321
04-30-2013, 12:18 PM
Not sure it has anything to do with how they see Bruce in the future. It's a bad idea to have 2 guy's locked up for 10+ years.

Old school 1983
04-30-2013, 12:22 PM
Not sure it has anything to do with how they see Bruce in the future. It's a bad idea to have 2 guy's locked up for 10+ years.

Idk if its that so much but I think maybe the reds want to see what they have in lutz and winker, their two big left handed outfield prospects, before they sign Bruce. Why sign a streaky guy for big money when one of your cheap honegrown prospects could be a better option and then use jay in a trade once that is established.

Ghosts of 1990
04-30-2013, 01:07 PM
Idk if its that so much but I think maybe the reds want to see what they have in lutz and winker, their two big left handed outfield prospects, before they sign Bruce. Why sign a streaky guy for big money when one of your cheap honegrown prospects could be a better option and then use jay in a trade once that is established.

Highly HIGHLY unlikely either Lutz or Winkler ever come anything close to Jay Bruce, even in some of his subpar seasons.

Rock of Truth
04-30-2013, 01:21 PM
This is insane! as much as I yell at the TV when Bruce whiffs, you cannot trade him. I think many people forget, he is still younger than both Cozart and Frazier!!!

Old school 1983
04-30-2013, 01:31 PM
Highly HIGHLY unlikely either Lutz or Winkler ever come anything close to Jay Bruce, even in some of his subpar seasons.

I doubt either of them would give you the total package with defense the way Bruce does. If one of them offers a more consistent bat in the future and couple that with a trade of Bruce for someone the net effect may lead to a better team. I like Bruce and only seem him getting better (im seeing bruce trying to become a more complete hitter by going the other way this year and once that clicks i think hell take off) but it may be wise to consider and explore all options considering the reds are a mid market team with a huge contract commitment to votto, before they extend Bruce that far.

boiseheidleberg
04-30-2013, 02:24 PM
I may be wrong but I don't remember any blockbuster trades happening in April or May. All the trade talk is fun but it's moot. Generally teams just don't make big moves early in the season.

bmwreds31
04-30-2013, 02:35 PM
i can remember when bruce started his first season and that crazy streak he went on. Its unbelievable. Its not just a lucky streak and getting his pitches. Its like hes a completely different player. When he was on like that in the beginning at least. He was so patient and had an eye like a eagle. Then all of the sudden couple months later hes swinging at balls that bounce in front of the plate like he went blind.

Ive never really seen him go back to that crazy good streak where he looked like the next phenom. Ive seen him get streaky since.

Old school 1983
04-30-2013, 04:34 PM
I may be wrong but I don't remember any blockbuster trades happening in April or May. All the trade talk is fun but it's moot. Generally teams just don't make big moves early in the season.

Oh I know. Any trade talk I'm thinking of would be directed towards being made more towards the deadline.

Vottomatic
04-30-2013, 06:07 PM
I may be wrong but I don't remember any blockbuster trades happening in April or May. All the trade talk is fun but it's moot. Generally teams just don't make big moves early in the season.

April 1, 2012, the Reds traded the great Juan Francisco to the Braves for JJ Hoover.

April 16, 1999, the Reds traded the great John Hudek to the Braves for Mark Wohlers.

May 29, 1994, the Reds traded the great Roberto Kelly and a minor leaguer to the Braves for Deion Sanders.

May 19, 1988, the Reds traded the great Pat Perry to the Cubs for Leon Durham.

April 7, 2006, the Reds traded Jeff Stevens to the Indians for Brandon Phillips.

April 19, 1994, the Reds traded the great Marty Lister and Ross Powell to the Astros for Eddie Taubensee.

May 9, 1983, the Dodgers traded Brett Wise and John Franco to the Reds for the great Rafael Landestoy.

April 3, 1990, the Reds trade Jeff Richardson and Mike Roesler to the Pirates for the great Billy Hatcher.

May 29, 1971, the Reds trade Vern Geishert and Frank Duffy to the Giants for the great George Foster.

Never say never.

RedlegJake
04-30-2013, 07:03 PM
I'd take a similar trade right now...Landestoy for Franco...Geishert for Foster...the closest migjt br Soto for a Hoover quality arm akin to Francico/JJ...or a couple prospect arms for a Hatcher LF....but I don't see any way the Reds get Fowler without a Cueto like return.

Old school 1983
04-30-2013, 07:24 PM
I'd take a similar trade right now...Landestoy for Franco...Geishert for Foster...the closest migjt br Soto for a Hoover quality arm akin to Francico/JJ...or a couple prospect arms for a Hatcher LF....but I don't see any way the Reds get Fowler without a Cueto like return.

I was thinking more towards the deadline. While some of the guys that were acquired in those April deals went on to greatness at the time they were minor to moderate transactions.

Goose1701
04-30-2013, 10:43 PM
Bruce's K rate is up to 32%....

Vottomatic
04-30-2013, 10:55 PM
I'm starting to feel sorry for Jay. This is like beyond ugly for him.

Old school 1983
04-30-2013, 10:59 PM
He'll probably go on a terror at some point and do his best babe Ruth impersonation for a month and even things out. Well at least I hope. Idk if I've ever seen him K this much.

RedTeamGo!
05-01-2013, 09:26 AM
Bruce got into a Twitter war with some of his fans last night. I really enjoy Twitter but I don't know if players being on during the season is a good thing. DatDudeBP posts a lot of pictures late at night during the season of him at clubs drinking and it just rubs me the wrong way. Personally, if I were paid $10 mil a year to play baseball for 6 months I would not get drunk every night. I have no complaints with Phillips on the field obviously, I just think it is strange that he broadcasts his late night drinking.

TitosLoveChild
05-01-2013, 01:21 PM
Bruce got into a Twitter war with some of his fans last night. I really enjoy Twitter but I don't know if players being on during the season is a good thing. DatDudeBP posts a lot of pictures late at night during the season of him at clubs drinking and it just rubs me the wrong way. Personally, if I were paid $10 mil a year to play baseball for 6 months I would not get drunk every night. I have no complaints with Phillips on the field obviously, I just think it is strange that he broadcasts his late night drinking.

Bruce is obviously frustrated and he got baited by the trolls. At least he cares.

Last year Vernon Wells was tweeting "too blessed to be stressed" and dancing before games while making $21 mil batting .230.

xsteve1
05-01-2013, 04:28 PM
I can't feel sorry for guys making millions of dollars. It comes with the territory. You can call me any name in the book for whatever Bruce is making.

redsfan4486
05-01-2013, 06:37 PM
Bruce will put up 30hr and 100 RBI. He might get there with a lot of ups and downs but he gets there and that's what I want from my clean up hitter.

RedTeamGo!
05-01-2013, 10:54 PM
Bruce will put up 30hr and 100 RBI. He might get there with a lot of ups and downs but he gets there and that's what I want from my clean up hitter.

He is not the clean up hitter.

I hope he gets there but I am not so sure this year. He looks very lost at the plate. I am aware he is a very streaky player but this feels different. This whole season feels weird. I have a feeling Bruce wants out of cinci.

dwyerbrg
05-02-2013, 07:44 AM
April 1, 2012, the Reds traded the great Juan Francisco to the Braves for JJ Hoover.

April 16, 1999, the Reds traded the great John Hudek to the Braves for Mark Wohlers.

May 29, 1994, the Reds traded the great Roberto Kelly and a minor leaguer to the Braves for Deion Sanders.

May 19, 1988, the Reds traded the great Pat Perry to the Cubs for Leon Durham.

April 7, 2006, the Reds traded Jeff Stevens to the Indians for Brandon Phillips.

April 19, 1994, the Reds traded the great Marty Lister and Ross Powell to the Astros for Eddie Taubensee.

May 9, 1983, the Dodgers traded Brett Wise and John Franco to the Reds for the great Rafael Landestoy.

April 3, 1990, the Reds trade Jeff Richardson and Mike Roesler to the Pirates for the great Billy Hatcher.

May 29, 1971, the Reds trade Vern Geishert and Frank Duffy to the Giants for the great George Foster.

Never say never.

I don't know that I'd call any of these moves "blockbusters"...I could be wrong.

RedlegJake
05-02-2013, 10:07 AM
none were blockbusters when made but it shows helpful even huge acquisitions CAN be made early. But usually big name multi star trades are not made before the deadline period. Pegging a Foster at that stage though is just blind luck.

dwyerbrg
05-02-2013, 01:19 PM
I would agree that they can be helpful...it seems to me that the organization is merely trying to survive before making any moves. Not saying that's the right move, but I don't see them making a move to shore up LF when they have 3 players to rotate through that position right now.

They see Frazier as their 3B of the future, so they won't make a deal for a 3B and they likely don't want to add a LF with the hopes that they resign Choo...besides, for a month where they played 28 out of 30 days possible, including the last 20 days in a row, and suffered the multitude of injuries that they have suffered, 15-13 (now 15-14) is something I will take.

REDREAD
05-02-2013, 01:24 PM
Yikes.. Guys, we are only 2 games out of first place, after playing a brutal schedule.

Honestly, the Reds would be crazy to jettison Bruce and Leake at this point.
That would be a pure panic move. The cleanup hitter we got would likely not be as good as Bruce will eventually be. I know Leake is not very popular, but losing him hurts the pitching depth a lot.

A move like this is akin to the panic trade of Kearns/Lopez which completely knocked the Reds out of contention.

Ghosts of 1990
05-04-2013, 07:56 PM
It would be foolish to trade Bruce right now... Leake on the other hand we would be just fine without. He's smoke and mirrors and big league hitters probably love facing him.

CySeymour
05-04-2013, 08:02 PM
For Frazier straight up none but if you package him with leake and prospects I'm sure there's someone out there

Such as???

Old school 1983
05-04-2013, 08:52 PM
Such as???

I'm not sure. It's going to depend on what team needs what and who is available at the deadline. It's also depend on the prospects packaged with him. If the reds could find a team that could use a first or third baseman and we have other prospects that match up then it's a possibility. I think it's way more realistic to move Frazier than it is to move Bruce.

HDBoy
05-05-2013, 05:39 AM
Remember, the need for the Reds to deal players in a blockbuster trade is about changing the team chemistry. Cincy just has too many streaky .250 hitters who are prone to long bouts of ineffective service. It almost doesn't matter which interchangeable pieces they deal, they just need to make a big change. The current combination isn't getting the job done, and Cozart, Bruce, Frazier, Heisey and Mesaraco are the most likely candidates to go -- with Leake added to sweeten the pot and help the team make wholesale changes and land a more reliable, franchise-caliber slugger. Like Stubbs or even Hamilton before, each player I'm listing may need a change of scenery to shock their systems. Look at how the addition of Cingrani may be changing Leake: he now appears to be pitching like he fear for his job (and he should). Alternatively, maybe the team simply needs a change in managerial style and direction. I'm no Dusty Baker fan, and feel that change could help too, but I suspect it is this particular combination of players that is the real problem.

HDBoy
05-05-2013, 05:46 AM
Also, the Reds simply are not getting what they could be getting out of Chapman. This collection of punch-and-Judy hitters needs him as a starter. Having another ace to help keep games close also would help change the chemistry.

Old school 1983
05-05-2013, 06:36 AM
Remember, the need for the Reds to deal players in a blockbuster trade is about changing the team chemistry. Cincy just has too many streaky .250 hitters who are prone to long bouts of ineffective service. It almost doesn't matter which interchangeable pieces they deal, they just need to make a big change. The current combination isn't getting the job done, and Cozart, Bruce, Frazier, Heisey and Mesaraco are the most likely candidates to go -- with Leake added to sweeten the pot and help the team make wholesale changes and land a more reliable, franchise-caliber slugger. Like Stubbs or even Hamilton before, each player I'm listing may need a change of scenery to shock their systems. Look at how the addition of Cingrani may be changing Leake: he now appears to be pitching like he fear for his job (and he should). Alternatively, maybe the team simply needs a change in managerial style and direction. I'm no Dusty Baker fan, and feel that change could help too, but I suspect it is this particular combination of players that is the real problem.

The lineup has way too many similar type hitters. You have to look at other factors when considering who to move aside from bat. Age contract defensive ability and position come to mind. Considering that, I'd not trade Bruce unless you got a huge return. I'd not consider dealing Mez unless it was a can't pass up deal. Simply put we don't know what he is at the big league level yet due to limited inconsistent time. At this point heisey would be just a throw in and I think he's bring more value to the reds bench if used correctly than he'd bring in a trade. Frazier and cozart are interesting pieces to me. Cozart plays short, and we really don't have anyone that plays at his level so I'd hang tight on him. To me Frazier is the odd man out. He's a great pie e to have but this team had many guys similar to him, he's an older player for being a second year player, and he has the most competent backup of any player on the team so if he was dealt aspects such as defense might actually improve at third.

And finally I don't think Hamilton needed a change of venue. It was pretty obvious they guy had stud potential at least in my mind. I was mad as all get out the day he was traded

holster10
05-05-2013, 07:41 AM
trade bruce? no way. he is a great player......10% of the time.

Old school 1983
05-05-2013, 07:57 AM
trade bruce? no way. he is a great player......10% of the time.

And he is at least an all star caliber defender 100% of the time. His leash should be getting shorter as he gets more experience in the league, but the guy already has more major league experience than most players in his age group. I think our biggest problem with Bruce are the expectations we had for him. He's not a superstar, but he is an all star player, and unless we got excellent quality in return, then we will sorely miss him. For me this would be the last year where I say he should be near untouchable as far as trades are concerned. Just let him play and I think he'll get back to his norms by the end of the year.

The comparisons to Stubbs drive me nuts. Stubbs didnt being much to the reds lineup for two years. I can already think of a few games where Bruce has gotten clutch hits for the reds this year. I'd like to see the K total go down, but he is no drew Stubbs with more or less two years of futility.

dwyerbrg
05-06-2013, 07:55 AM
The Reds are current 18-14 and in 2nd place in the NL Central...doesn't mean they aren't frustrating to watch at times, but the need to make wholesale changes, IMO, is currently being overstated.

Old school 1983
05-06-2013, 08:12 AM
The Reds are current 18-14 and in 2nd place in the NL Central...doesn't mean they aren't frustrating to watch at times, but the need to make wholesale changes, IMO, is currently being overstated.

I don't think changes need to be wholesale. The players to win are in this roster or in the minors. I really think the reds are just one acquisition of a legitimate 4 hole hitter away from being hands down the best team in at least the NL central

MillerTime58
05-06-2013, 11:12 AM
Unless that cleanup hitter is Stanton, I'm not trading Bruce.

kaldaniels
05-06-2013, 11:59 AM
They're not going to just trade Bruce... but he is sealing his fate/legacy as a player in the game of baseball as just "a streaky guy". It speaks volumes that the organization did not want to lock him up to an even longer term deal this past offseason when Bruce camp wanted to do so--it was basically to extend his contract in the same value range it is in now. Says the organization is not so convinced on his ability and quite frankly at this point why would they be.

It doesn't speak volumes at all. He is locked up till 2017. Very few players in the game who are post-arb can command contracts past that point. Just because he is not one of those guys is no reason to raise an eyebrow at the non-extension. And any speculation on those extension dollars/years is just that, speculation.

RedlegJake
05-06-2013, 12:06 PM
check the link on ORG "trade idea that wouldn't die" Can you imagine landing Stanton for that package...I wish Rob Huff, the writer was the Gm of the Fish so we could make that deal now!

Old school 1983
05-06-2013, 12:27 PM
I really don't think the marlins would go for a Stanton for a Bruce plus whoever trade. They are looking to dump money and get cheap young talent in my opinion. Our cf is probably the worst in the NL and left even with ludwick out there would be average. Why trade our best defensive outfield player for Stanton. I think there will be better options for the reds. That doesn't mean better players than Stanton. It means players that you would have to give less value for or pieces that fit into its the nice to have them or they are useful, but we don't need them right now. Right now we need Bruce's D in right bc the rest of the outfield is defensively sub par at the moment with heisey out and Robinson getting minimal time. IMO the thread about Stanton sound be titled the trade idea that needs to die. I'd love to have the guy, but not at the price that trade suggests or for Bruce. So pretty much unless we can rob the marlins, I think we will overpay for the guy wreck our depth at other spots and in the end not be able to afford him. There are better more realistic options out there. Namely Headley if he doesn't re sign or fowler if the Rockies fall out. Hell I'd say Bruce and bailey for trout would be more helpful albeit unrealistic. It'd solidify the centerfield cf D give the reds a legit 2 or 4 hole guy in trout and get choo back to right where he belongs. So can we let the Stanton trade idea die until there are real reports of him being available and the reds bring mentioned in discussions?

RedlegJake
05-06-2013, 12:42 PM
OldSchool...you missed the trade at the end of the link...I was not proposing Bruce but the package writer Rob Huff suggested...HRod...Lutz...Lotzkar...Guillon or Garrett and 1 of Stephenson/Corcino/Travieso. I'd throw in Hamilton too with that package! (Huff suggests it wouldn't take Billy.Without him I think we'd be outbid). Then I like Vottomatic's idea...Bruce to Colorado for Fowler...sign Choo LT with Bruce's dollars and live for three years with Fowler and Stanton's arb prices. And watch the Reds go to the Series the next three years!

Old school 1983
05-06-2013, 01:10 PM
OldSchool...you missed the trade at the end of the link...I was not proposing Bruce but the package writer Rob Huff suggested...HRod...Lutz...Lotzkar...Guillon or Garrett and 1 of Stephenson/Corcino/Travieso. I'd throw in Hamilton too with that package! (Huff suggests it wouldn't take Billy.Without him I think we'd be outbid). Then I like Vottomatic's idea...Bruce to Colorado for Fowler...sign Choo LT with Bruce's dollars and live for three years with Fowler and Stanton's arb prices. And watch the Reds go to the Series the next three years!

Oh I definitely missed that. Thanks for the heads up my fault. That's what I get for sneaking a peek at the board at work. I really like vottomatics idea. To realistically obtain Stanton I think we'd be looking at a three way trade a la choo. We'd definitely have to give up talent but if we could find a third team to give away something to Miami if we give them a piece we don't need, I think it'd make the idea way more realistic. Ill type more on what I'd think it'd take after work.

Old school 1983
05-06-2013, 01:17 PM
Jake if we could get the marlins to bite on your part for Stanton, then we'd definitely be contenders for the next three years. Hopefully with some well placed draft picks we could restock our minors in the meantime.

Krawhitham
05-07-2013, 07:52 PM
It's now or never: the Reds need to shakeup this team with a blockbuster trade for a more reliable power hitter/right fielder.

You know they are on pace for 88 wins right?

Old school 1983
05-07-2013, 08:16 PM
You know they are on pace for 88 wins right?

I wouldn't say the time is right now but 88 wins might not make the post season and the reds are sorely lacking a cleanup hitter. I'm not banking on a ludwick return. I think they could use a move at the deadline

Rantly
05-07-2013, 09:58 PM
I know its just one at bat but after seeing Bruce hack at that ball in the dirt with runner on 3rd one out AGAIN!!, I just have feeling he is never going to be the player we all thought.

Old school 1983
05-07-2013, 11:36 PM
I know its just one at bat but after seeing Bruce hack at that ball in the dirt with runner on 3rd one out AGAIN!!, I just have feeling he is never going to be the player we all thought.

That was a huge play in the game. Bruce still has some time to learn but I think the leash has to be getting short. Idk if he will be able to ever be counted on as a consistent primary run producer. He's still a solid piece. I think at the deadline the focus should be on a 4 hole bat so Bruce can take a secondary role in run production.

Krawhitham
05-08-2013, 12:00 PM
It's now or never: the Reds need to shakeup this team with a blockbuster

Using 2 wildcards this is how many wins needed for the playoffs the last 5 years

2012 = 88
2011 = 89
2010 = 90
2009 = 88
2008 = 89

Currently the Reds are on pace for 91 wins (90.558), and they are doing this with their Clean up hitter and Ace of the pitching staff on the DL.

Ludwick's WAR last season was 2.1, lets assume he comes back for the 2nd half of the season that pushes the Reds win total to 92 wins

Cueto's WAR last season was 5.8, lets assume he comes back for the 2nd half of the season that pushes the Reds win total to 95 wins

Yes this team could be improved, but they are no where close to panic mode.

Bruce leads the world in strikeouts only has 1 HR and is due 42 million over the next 4 years

Leake is one of the worse starters in baseball, his stats last season vs all other qualified starters in the NL

Out of 46 NL starters Leake ranked
43rd in ERA
37th in WHIP
45th in OPS against
46th in BAA


trade for a more reliable power hitter/right fielder.

To get a quality cleanup hitter you would have to give up Bruce. Leake, & most likely Hamilton (and maybe money to cover Bruce contract)

But lets look at right fielders, Bruce has a career .804 OPS so I'm assume you want to improve on that. Currently these Right Fielders have a .805 OPS or better

Michael Cuddyer
Daniel Nava
Torii Hunter
Jose Bautista
Carlos Beltran
Nelson Cruz
Gerardo Parra
Hunter Pence

What is a power hitter? 30 HR a season maybe, so I'll use 25 as my cutoff

Michael Cuddyer has 25 or more HR once in 13 years so NOT A POWER HITTER
Daniel Nava is 30 years old with 12 career HR so NOT A POWER HITTER
Torii Hunter has not had 25 HR in 6 years so NO longer A POWER HITTER
Jose Bautista, YEAH like they would trade him
Carlos Beltran, YEAH like they would trade him
Nelson Cruz 25 HR twice in 8 years Carrer .823 OPS, not much of an improvement but a little
Gerardo Parra 6th season never more than 10 HR so NOT A POWER HITTER
Hunter Pence has never had more than 25 HR but has had 25HR 3 times. He has a .813 OPS, not much of an improvement but a little

So would you like to give up Bruce, Leake, & maybe Hamilton for Hunter Pence or Nelson Cruz? Both these guys are currently on winning teams, you would have to overwhelm them to get a trade done

Old school 1983
05-08-2013, 12:18 PM
Using 2 wildcards this is how many wins needed for the playoffs the last 5 years

2012 = 88
2011 = 89
2010 = 90
2009 = 88
2008 = 89

Currently the Reds are on pace for 91 wins (90.558), and they are doing this with their Clean up hitter and Ace of the pitching staff on the DL.

Ludwick's WAR last season was 2.1, lets assume he comes back for the 2nd half of the season that pushes the Reds win total to 92 wins

Cueto's WAR last season was 5.8, lets assume he comes back for the 2nd half of the season that pushes the Reds win total to 95 wins

Yes this team could be improved, but they are no where close to panic mode.

Bruce leads the world in strikeouts only has 1 HR and is due 42 million over the next 4 years

Leake is one of the worse starters in baseball, his stats last season vs all other qualified starters in the NL

Out of 46 NL starters Leake ranked
43rd in ERA
37th in WHIP
45th in OPS against
46th in BAA



To get a quality cleanup hitter you would have to give up Bruce. Leake, & most likely Hamilton (and maybe money to cover Bruce contract)

But lets look at right fielders, Bruce has a career .804 OPS so I'm assume you want to improve on that. Currently these Right Fielders have a .805 OPS or better

Michael Cuddyer
Daniel Nava
Torii Hunter
Jose Bautista
Carlos Beltran
Nelson Cruz
Gerardo Parra
Hunter Pence

What is a power hitter? 30 HR a season maybe, so I'll use 25 as my cutoff

Michael Cuddyer has 25 or more HR once in 13 years so NOT A POWER HITTER
Daniel Nava is 30 years old with 12 career HR so NOT A POWER HITTER
Torii Hunter has not had 25 HR in 6 years so NO longer A POWER HITTER
Jose Bautista, YEAH like they would trade him
Carlos Beltran, YEAH like they would trade him
Nelson Cruz 25 HR twice in 8 years Carrer .823 OPS, not much of an improvement but a little
Gerardo Parra 6th season never more than 10 HR so NOT A POWER HITTER
Hunter Pence has never had more than 25 HR but has had 25HR 3 times. He has a .813 OPS, not much of an improvement but a little

So would you like to give up Bruce, Leake, & maybe Hamilton for Hunter Pence or Nelson Cruz? Both these guys are currently on winning teams, you would have to overwhelm them to get a trade done

Never assume a certain win total will get you in. And honestly if the reds goal is just to make it in, then they are missing the mark. Field the best team possible. It's a pretty large assumption that a leake Bruce and Hamilton would have to be moved for a cleanup hitter too. No one ever thought a leadoff hitter coujd be had wiyhout giving leake up. That being said, if managed properly this current set of players should keep the reds in it until the deadline when a move can be made. I'm not banking on a mid thirties outfielder who had a up year after three down ones a d is coming back from injury to carry us in the cleanup spot

HDBoy
05-08-2013, 06:01 PM
It seems to me that the 2013 Reds are handling league average and second-tier teams well enough, but are not competing well against the best, top-level teams with great pitching.

While promising with Cueto and Latos paired as aces, the Reds own starting rotation is severely compromised if one of these two goes down with an injury, as currently is the case. Together, the trio of Bailey, Arroyo and Leake are not consistent enough to take up the slack, and not dominant enough to compensate for the team's anemic hitting. Replacing Leake with Cingrani would improve the rotation, but this still would leave the Reds with just two aces, even if we all would be more hopeful.

A team with such weak hitting support needs a stronger starting rotation. The key to improving this 2013 group begins and ends with adding another power pitcher to the rotation. Make Aroldis Chapman a starter. Trade Leake and another player (or two or three) for a stronger-hitting third baseman or outfielder. I'd also be bold and convert Cingrani to long relief or perhaps even to a closer for now -- paired with Broxton. Chapman simply is not as valuable as a closer if the Reds can't use him to hold leads because they are playing come-from-behind ball. So, he's being wasted in the bullpen with this collection of players.

With a stronger starting rotation, opposing run production will be reduced, and the Reds won't constantly be playing under pressure to pull off those late-inning rallies. This in turn will affect momentum, and allow the team to string together more victories and win more series, which isn't happening under the current plan.

So, the Reds need another power starting pitcher AND another power hitter.

RedlegJake
05-08-2013, 06:29 PM
It seems to me that the 2013 Reds are handling league average and second-tier teams well enough, but are not competing well against the best, top-level teams with great pitching.

While promising with Cueto and Latos paired as aces, the Reds own starting rotation is severely compromised if one of these two goes down with an injury, as currently is the case. Together, the trio of Bailey, Arroyo and Leake are not consistent enough to take up the slack, and not dominant enough to compensate for the team's anemic hitting. Replacing Leake with Cingrani would improve the rotation, but this still would leave the Reds with just two aces, even if we all would be more hopeful.

A team with such weak hitting support needs a stronger starting rotation. The key to improving this 2013 group begins and ends with adding another power pitcher to the rotation. Make Aroldis Chapman a starter. Trade Leake and another player (or two or three) for a stronger-hitting third baseman or outfielder. I'd also be bold and convert Cingrani to long relief or perhaps even to a closer for now -- paired with Broxton. Chapman simply is not as valuable as a closer if the Reds can't use him to hold leads because they are playing come-from-behind ball. So, he's being wasted in the bullpen with this collection of players.

With a stronger starting rotation, opposing run production will be reduced, and the Reds won't constantly be playing under pressure to pull off those late-inning rallies. This in turn will affect momentum, and allow the team to string together more victories and win more series, which isn't happening under the current plan.

So, the Reds need another power starting pitcher AND another power hitter.

Unbelievable. 'shakes head' Ridiculous.

HDBoy
05-08-2013, 09:13 PM
Unbelievable. 'shakes head' Ridiculous.

Theories from one know-it-all armchair analyst are no more ridiculous than those from the next. You can't tell me that our pitching or hitting has met expectations. Yes, we've had injuries, but the players who haven't been injured aren't performing well and team chemistry is virtually non-existent. At this point, this team is generating little excitement.

Certainly, the 2013 Reds are disappointing fans who managed to rebuild high expectations after the ignoble end to the 2012 season. To watch the team stumble through the early 2013 schedule is adding insult to injury. But with the lack of improvement, and in the absence of consistent wins, suffering fans are left with two options: give up, or exercise the God-given right to endlessly analyze a baseball team and speculate about how to make improvements. Such thinking and debate are a fundamental part of this national pastime, and it seems to me that no ideas are too silly in pointless debates like this.

Also, I assure you that I hate this very discussion, even as I feel compelled to extend it. Two of my best friends are Giants fans and I've been a Reds' fan since attending my first games as a kid in the early 1960's. I prefer excitement and hope rather than the disappointment and despair.

Old school 1983
05-08-2013, 09:48 PM
I think for the most part we are getting far too comfortable saying it is early and using pervious slow starts as comfort that things will come around. Last year we started slow but all of the pieces were there n this year they are not. I don't think it's time to panic but in think something needs to be done. Honestly I think it's time that dustys leash gets a lot shorter. You can pretty much question his day to day lineup decisions and personnel decisions. He's great at managing personalities but the game is played on the field as well and I think he isn't fielding the best lineup possible every game, isn't developing the right players, plays lineups that simply leave you shaking your head wondering if he is trying to lose, and often leaves his starters in too long. The cycle needs to end. Even with the injuries this team is far to talented to be hovering around .500.

I know cubs fans, cards fans, and giants fans. They all tell me the same thing. He is a bad manager and is holding our team back. This tells me that it's just not us as reds fans being whiny about it.

Furthermore, I think the lineup needs some shakeups. Give Bruce a break for a day. Get lutz in. Having Bruce take a day off has worked in the past. Hannahan and Frazier need to platoon. Mez needs to catch more. Robinson needs to play more and bat second. And they need to find a right handed bat off the bench nuts really putting the team in a bad spot. I think with some basic moves like that and using chapman in game on the line situations rather just in the ninth, what's the point of having two guys that can close? Would be an improvement.

RedlegJake
05-09-2013, 10:08 AM
Theories from one know-it-all armchair analyst are no more ridiculous than those from the next. You can't tell me that our pitching or hitting has met expectations. Yes, we've had injuries, but the players who haven't been injured aren't performing well and team chemistry is virtually non-existent. At this point, this team is generating little excitement.

Certainly, the 2013 Reds are disappointing fans who managed to rebuild high expectations after the ignoble end to the 2012 season. To watch the team stumble through the early 2013 schedule is adding insult to injury. But with the lack of improvement, and in the absence of consistent wins, suffering fans are left with two options: give up, or exercise the God-given right to endlessly analyze a baseball team and speculate about how to make improvements. Such thinking and debate are a fundamental part of this national pastime, and it seems to me that no ideas are too silly in pointless debates like this.

Also, I assure you that I hate this very discussion, even as I feel compelled to extend it. Two of my best friends are Giants fans and I've been a Reds' fan since attending my first games as a kid in the early 1960's. I prefer excitement and hope rather than the disappointment and despair.

HDBoy you deserved a better answer than ridiculous on my part but I find it nigh on unbelievable you point your finger at the starters or pitching in general. NO staff gives up less than 2 runs every time out. Never in the entire history of the game. Pitching is why we are even close and that is with our #2 out (latos being #1). It would be near impossible to imlrove the starting rotation by trade without gutting the team of its best current players and its best prospe ts. You want an impossible standard is all I am saying when I sajd ridiculous. The Reds staff is much better than the Giants, btw. My biggest frustration is all the desire to trade any of our established pitching for rental type players.

Some kind of change to the low obp high slugging offensive players I can get aboard. Too many in the same lineup I think. But thinking the path to improvement lies in the pitching? I strongly disagree. I also think a couple of our pitching prospects would be quitecapable of landing a Rios or Fowler if Walt goes the trade route. One hitter is not going to do it though...still need the other slumpers to turn it on.

HDBoy
05-09-2013, 11:27 AM
RedLegJake:

I appreciate your thoughts. I believe our vaunted starting pitchers are 9-9 -- with Latos/Cueto at 4-0. At 35 games into the season, that's not a championship pace. I don't know what the starter's collective ERA is, but I'll bet it's not impressive either.

Collectively, the offense is not "stepping up to the plate", so to speak, but the starting pitching does not seem to be keeping the offense in games either. Some say we need another slugger in the lineup, especially with Bruce and Frazier not excelling and both Hannigan and Ludwick out (Hanny hit for a pretty good average last year). Others says we need a slugger off the bench. Most everyone agrees that too many hot/cold hitters on the team need to find more consistency.

I'm just saying we need dramatic change (including hitting), but better hitting alone won't get the job done. Besides offense and defense, pitching is essential to championships. The Reds offense isn't the only problem here.

If we don't have the lead in the eighth or ninth inning, Chapman isn't getting in a lot of games to make a difference. Therefore his skills are being wasted in the bullpen. Given the mediocre state of the starting pitching, it's only logical that changes to the rotation be contemplated.

Trade Leake. Or don't trade him, and convert him into a long innings eater and a pinch hitter and pinch runner. But get him out of this starting rotation.

RedlegJake
05-09-2013, 11:59 AM
RedLegJake:

I appreciate your thoughts. I believe our vaunted starting pitchers are 9-9 -- with Latos/Cueto at 4-0. At 35 games into the season, that's not a championship pace. I don't know what the starter's collective ERA is, but I'll bet it's not impressive either.

Collectively, the offense is not "stepping up to the plate", so to speak, but the starting pitching does not seem to be keeping the offense in games either. Some say we need another slugger in the lineup, especially with Bruce and Frazier not excelling and both Hannigan and Ludwick out (Hanny hit for a pretty good average last year). Others says we need a slugger off the bench. Most everyone agrees that too many hot/cold hitters on the team need to find more consistency.

I'm just saying we need dramatic change (including hitting), but better hitting alone won't get the job done. Besides offense and defense, pitching is essential to championships. The Reds offense isn't the only problem here.

If we don't have the lead in the eighth or ninth inning, Chapman isn't getting in a lot of games to make a difference. Therefore his skills are being wasted in the bullpen. Given the mediocre state of the starting pitching, it's only logical that changes to the rotation be contemplated.

Trade Leake. Or don't trade him, and convert him into a long innings eater and a pinch hitter and pinch runner. But get him out of this starting rotation.

Wins is the wrong way to evaluate pitching! You can basically suck and still get a win or vice versa. The starters collective era is just well below 4 and 2 nd to the Cards.

Old school 1983
05-09-2013, 12:05 PM
Wins is the wrong way to evaluate pitching! You can basically suck and still get a win or vice versa. The starters collective era is just well below 4 and 2 nd to the Cards.

The only complaint I could even have about the pitching is in use of the bullpen. Other than that it's been good. The cards will not sustain their current pitching prowess either whereas I don't think any of the reds starters are overperforming. I agree with jake on the fact that this lineup has too many similar type hitters and there needs to be changes.

HDBoy
05-10-2013, 03:25 PM
I agree with jake on the fact that this lineup has too many similar type hitters and there needs to be changes.

On this, I think we all agree.

Vottomatic
05-10-2013, 03:42 PM
I agree. I want more high average/high OBP guys than the free swingers going for the fence every at-bat.

I love Choo and Votto. Even BP has managed to lead the NL in rbi without hitting HR's. Nice to see.

Old school 1983
05-10-2013, 04:11 PM
I agree. I want more high average/high OBP guys than the free swingers going for the fence every at-bat.

I love Choo and Votto. Even BP has managed to lead the NL in rbi without hitting HR's. Nice to see.

I totally agree too!

dwyerbrg
05-13-2013, 01:38 PM
Wins is the wrong way to evaluate pitching! You can basically suck and still get a win or vice versa. The starters collective era is just well below 4 and 2 nd to the Cards.

Case in point, Saturday, Latos wasn't good Saturday, going 6.0 innings, giving up 9 H, 7 R (6 ER), walking 3, and striking out 4. He got the win because Burgos was brutal.

Overall the pitching staff is #1 in NL in WHIP (1.20), #5 in ERA (3.58), #2 in K's, #3 in BAA (.242) and 5th fewest walks allowed. That's overall, not just the starting pitching. It would not be smart (IMO) to give up any ML pitching at this point.

Offensively, the Reds are #7 in avg (.248), #1 in R (180), #2 in OBP (.332), #8 in SLG (.390), #8 in HR (37), #4 in 2B (63)...I'm not sure what to make of this offense, but the I'm not sure staying the course isn't the best action at this point.

Anybody know where I can find the total number of runners left on base?

HDBoy
05-13-2013, 10:01 PM
I also agree that counting wins is not the correct way to evaluate pitching, but it is one important point of comparison. And wins are THE most important way to evaluate a team.

With only two potential aces in the starting rotation and three league average starters, this team just is too vulnerable if one of those two aces goes down, as happened in the 2012 playoffs. As for the Reds' hitting, clearly this is a team on which the bats suddenly can turn ice cold at any moment, and of course, this also happened during the 2012 playoffs.

Well guess what: we still have the same, vulnerable staring rotation, though a different, but equally big hole in the starting lineup (given the fact that our versatile number two hitter had to be moved to bat cleanup due to Ludwick's injury). Choo/Philips/Votto/Ludwick-new guy/Bruce/Hannigan/Frazier/Cozart would be a far more formidable lineup.

I don't think the Reds should go into the playoffs with just two ace starters and I don't think we can count on Ludwick returning to form this season, even if he does make it back onto the field. I hope I'm wrong, but should the Reds bet a critical, "all-in" season and a $109 million payroll (12th highest in MLB) on these vulnerabilities? I don't think so, especially when we appear to be just one or two players away from the goal.

Again, I say trade Leake and a combination of veteran and promising minor league players for a cleanup hitter (maybe that elusive someone who can play third base or left field). Maybe we should hold onto Bruce. Maybe not. If Ludwick makes it back in true form, we have an even better bench and a team built for the playoffs, and not just the regular season.

Move Chapman to the rotation and Cingrani up to the show. Wth just one or two pitches, maybe Cingrani's blazing fastball would be a good fit in the late-inning bullpen and I can see that the coaches really are pushing Hoover to see if he has the stuff to become a closer. I appreciate the fact that Leake finally may be pushing himself a little harder now that his job is on the line and he has competition for that number five spot, but he's just not the right hurler for this team at this point in time.

Old school 1983
05-13-2013, 10:08 PM
Move Chapman to the rotation and Cingrani up to the show. Wth just one or two pitches, maybe Cingrani's blazing fastball would be a good fit in the late-inning bullpen and I can see that the coaches really are pushing Hoover to see if he has the stuff to become a closer. I appreciate the fact that Leake finally may be pushing himself a little harder now that his job is on the line and he has competition for that number five spot, but he's just not the right hurler for this team at this point in time.

Does anyone think that the reds may be pushing Hoover to close in order to move chapman into the rotation mid season. Just a crazy thought.

For the reds to acquire an impact four hitter they will have to deal pitching. It's our position of power in the majors or minors. Lets hope Walt can choose the correct pieces to move.

RedlegJake
05-13-2013, 11:01 PM
A move isn't needed. That is, unless it is a major deal. The Reds are getting excellent production from left in their 3 headed platoon. They have Felix Perez in AAA too. Barnhart is ready if an emergencg arises. What I guess I'm saying is no deal involving our pitching is worth it unless its for an impact hitter like a Stanton. The Reds are well supplied with decent platoon players and fill in guys. Dusty playing Cozart in the 2 hole baffles me since the LF platoon as a group has a great OBP and could slot in that hole really well. I have no problem with BP at cleanup but get the OBP guys in the 2 hole Dusty!

So either stand pat or go for a BIG splash but iffy players, old expensive guys...role players? No thanks...not for any of our arms.

miamiredskin
05-13-2013, 11:11 PM
If the world ends tonight, it will be because God doesn't want to watch another Jay Bruce ab. I know I don't.

Old school 1983
05-14-2013, 07:46 AM
A move isn't needed. That is, unless it is a major deal. The Reds are getting excellent production from left in their 3 headed platoon. They have Felix Perez in AAA too. Barnhart is ready if an emergencg arises. What I guess I'm saying is no deal involving our pitching is worth it unless its for an impact hitter like a Stanton. The Reds are well supplied with decent platoon players and fill in guys. Dusty playing Cozart in the 2 hole baffles me since the LF platoon as a group has a great OBP and could slot in that hole really well. I have no problem with BP at cleanup but get the OBP guys in the 2 hole Dusty!

So either stand pat or go for a BIG splash but iffy players, old expensive guys...role players? No thanks...not for any of our arms.

That is what I was saying. To make the big splash everyone was talking about. Stanton. I think if be willing to part with a lesser pitching piece for Headley. If the reds go for anyone below that level, I'd try to keep the big name pitching prospects out of it but in reality that will be hard to do since outside if billy Hamilton our best prospects are pitchers. But to get a decent two hole hitter I think all that might be required is to call the phillies up at deadline time and see if they would bite in ondrusek a guy they have had interest in last year and maybe a lotzkar for Michael Young. Bat him second move Frazier to left and the hole in the two spot is gone. In my opinion I think a move like that would only mask the bigger issue of not having a four hole hitter. Yes I know Phillips is doing an awesome job but he really doesn't scare anyone the way a Stanton or Headley would. I'd at least look into those options and if they cost too much then go with a two hole fix.

Old school 1983
05-14-2013, 08:00 AM
If the world ends tonight, it will be because God doesn't want to watch another Jay Bruce ab. I know I don't.

Bruce is 26. He has improved his home run and RBI numbers every year in the bigs. He is an all star. He is arguably the best defensive right fielder in the game. His glove and arm save runs almost on a nightly basis. Bruce still has tons of room to improve and I think he will. Contrary to what most fans think, Bruce does get clutch hits. We need to realize that young 30 homer 99 RBI guys that play elite level defense and are still improving do not grow on trees and are not the type of guys that you trade. Especially one that wants to stay with the organization.

SpiritofStLouis
05-14-2013, 08:31 AM
I agree with those who opine that it is way too early to panic. Most teams don't even consider trades until after Memorial Day (at least).

I also agree with those that state any trade for anyone is going to cost pitching.

Relax, folks, the season isn't even a quarter old. Give it another month.

Old school 1983
05-14-2013, 08:55 AM
I agree with those who opine that it is way too early to panic. Most teams don't even consider trades until after Memorial Day (at least).

I also agree with those that state any trade for anyone is going to cost pitching.

Relax, folks, the season isn't even a quarter old. Give it another month.

I agree that to acquire anyone worth anything it'll take pitching no ifs ands or buts about it. I think we all realize too that a trade will realistically occur in June or July. We see a hole in the lineup and want it fixed.

miamiredskin
05-15-2013, 07:22 PM
Bruce is 26. He has improved his home run and RBI numbers every year in the bigs. He is an all star. He is arguably the best defensive right fielder in the game. His glove and arm save runs almost on a nightly basis. Bruce still has tons of room to improve and I think he will. Contrary to what most fans think, Bruce does get clutch hits. We need to realize that young 30 homer 99 RBI guys that play elite level defense and are still improving do not grow on trees and are not the type of guys that you trade. Especially one that wants to stay with the organization.


All I know is, with runners on 2nd and 3rd and 1 out, Bruce just popped out and struck out in the same ab. He re-defines futility on a regular basis. Accumulating stats for a few weeks every year may make you an all-star, but it doesn't make you a winner. And he hasn't changed one bit since he came up.

Old school 1983
05-15-2013, 08:24 PM
All I know is, with runners on 2nd and 3rd and 1 out, Bruce just popped out and struck out in the same ab. He re-defines futility on a regular basis. Accumulating stats for a few weeks every year may make you an all-star, but it doesn't make you a winner. And he hasn't changed one bit since he came up.

I completely agree he needs to be more consistent but you just can't trade him for anyone and I think people seriously overlook what he brings on defense on a nightly basis and that will never slump. I think we have plenty of spots like third and left we could slot better players. People seem to turn a blind eye to the clutch hits he does get bc they are so focused on the times he doesnt. Bruce is the least of my worries.

SpiritofStLouis
05-16-2013, 12:13 PM
I wouldn't give up on Bruce, lotta season to go.

Old school 1983
05-16-2013, 12:18 PM
I wouldn't give up on Bruce, lotta season to go.

I don't want to give up in Bruce. There are four names that it'd listen to in a Bruce trade. Trout, Harper, price, and Stanton. Other than that pretty much forget trading him in my mind and I really don't think any if those guys are all too available with the exception of Stanton.

Steve4192
08-04-2013, 09:48 AM
It's a shame the Reds never traded those two bums for a real cleanup hitter. All of their problems would be solved.

CmdrCody
08-05-2013, 01:57 PM
It's a shame the Reds never traded those two bums for a real cleanup hitter. All of their problems would be solved.

Yeah, neither Bruce or Leake have done anything this year.