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redsmetz
10-16-2013, 05:24 PM
This year's Rock & Roll Hall of Fame ballot was released with some interesting first time nominees.

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/16/nirvana-leads-nominees-for-rock-hall-of-fame/

Let the debate start!

*BaseClogger*
10-16-2013, 05:42 PM
Is there any way Nirvana doesn't make it in this year?

redsfanmia
10-16-2013, 05:42 PM
I hope the Replacements make it.

redsmetz
10-16-2013, 05:50 PM
Just to get the names out there, here's the list from CNN

Grunge groundbreakers Nirvana, disco dynamos Chic and the costume-clad, Gene Simmons-led pop metal band KISS are among 16 nominees up for election in the museum's Class of 2014. The deep selection also includes '70s and '80s hitmakers Hall and Oates; college radio heroes the Replacements; New Orleans funkmeisters the Meters; sweet-voiced Linda Ronstadt; and pioneering gangsta rappers N.W.A.

Completing the list: the Paul Butterfield Blues Band, Deep Purple, Peter Gabriel, LL Cool J, Cat Stevens, Link Wray, Yes and the Zombies.

redsmetz
10-16-2013, 05:58 PM
Here's an argument for Link Wray. I'm familiar with his biggest hit "Rumble"

http://inductlinkwray.com/

http://youtu.be/NuQDJZoRsvs

I don't know his entire body of work, but his performance at the beginning of the clip sounds as fresh now as it did back in 1958 when the song first came out.

westofyou
10-16-2013, 07:33 PM
Here's an argument for Link Wray. I'm familiar with his biggest hit "Rumble"

http://inductlinkwray.com/

http://youtu.be/NuQDJZoRsvs

I don't know his entire body of work, but his performance at the beginning of the clip sounds as fresh now as it did back in 1958 when the song first came out.

Link is a regular visitor to the PNW

KittyDuran
10-16-2013, 09:14 PM
Just to get the names out there, here's the list from CNN

Grunge groundbreakers Nirvana, disco dynamos Chic and the costume-clad, Gene Simmons-led pop metal band KISS are among 16 nominees up for election in the museum's Class of 2014. The deep selection also includes '70s and '80s hitmakers Hall and Oates; college radio heroes the Replacements; New Orleans funkmeisters the Meters; sweet-voiced Linda Ronstadt; and pioneering gangsta rappers N.W.A.

Completing the list: the Paul Butterfield Blues Band, Deep Purple, Peter Gabriel, LL Cool J, Cat Stevens, Link Wray, Yes and the Zombies.I really like this list of nominees. I'll tolerate LL Cool J, but just not a rap fan overall - but will admit the contribution. The "fringe" artists are a good mix, too.

Chip R
10-16-2013, 09:16 PM
Hall & Oates. 1st concert I ever went to and it was with my first girlfriend who was a big H&O fan.

KittyDuran
10-16-2013, 09:21 PM
Here is my "7" list:

Nirvana
Chic
The Replacements
Deep Purple
LL Cool J
Link Ray
Yes

My "5" list:

Nirvana
Chic
LL Cool J
Link Ray
Yes

Joseph
10-16-2013, 09:28 PM
Nirvana and NWA would seem logical. Some day KISS will get in likely. They've been around so long, sold so many records and in the 70's were some kind of phenomenon I think they will end up in on that alone.

Nirvana is the most iconic of a change in music. Grunge paved the way for current alternative styles and let's face it Nevermind was in every kids CD player when I was a junior in high school. I know popularity doesn't make quality, but it was quality to me. Soundgarden was the only mainstream grunge band I liked more.

NWA.....they weren't he first 'gansta' rappers and in fact some of the stuff Cube and Dre have done since then remove a lot of their street cred [if there is such a thing] but much like Nirvana, there were a lot of us back in high school who had Straight Outta Compton in the disc changer of our cars. My dad was a cop and I still blared Eff the Police all the damn time.

To me those two should get in.

RBA
10-16-2013, 09:51 PM
Chubby Checker snubbed again? He had the biggest chart hit of all-time on the planet.

marcshoe
10-16-2013, 10:13 PM
Without going on my usual ELO rant, it is good to see some seventies-era bands considered. Hall & Oates has been a huge snub.

Nirvana's a no-brainer. The Replacements were quite influential in their day. Personally, I have a soft spot for Deep Purple. Yes deserves a spot as well, if the voters can get over all the prog excess (read Rick Wakeman).

Wonderful Monds
10-16-2013, 10:17 PM
Gotta be Nirvana, The Replacements and NWA at least

Dom Heffner
10-16-2013, 10:21 PM
Chubby Checker snubbed again? He had the biggest chart hit of all-time on the planet.

And he made out with my mom...and I would bet more if I had to lol...

KronoRed
10-16-2013, 10:33 PM
No Monkees? to hell with this.

New York Red
10-16-2013, 11:54 PM
Gonna be a sad day for the R&R HOF if KISS gets elected. Possibly the worst rock band of all-time. No hit songs, no great albums, etc ... just a lot makeup, a stage show designed to hide their lack of musical talent, and an odd cult following who were willing to spend their life savings on anything with the KISS logo on it. I have to give credit to Gene Simmons though. He somehow brainwashed a generation of KISS fans into making him filthy rich, without having one ounce of musical ability.

Ravenlord
10-17-2013, 01:06 AM
I vote N.W.A and Cat Stevens. don't care about most of the rest.

*BaseClogger*
10-17-2013, 11:42 AM
Gonna be a sad day for the R&R HOF if KISS gets elected. Possibly the worst rock band of all-time. No hit songs, no great albums, etc ... just a lot makeup, a stage show designed to hide their lack of musical talent, and an odd cult following who were willing to spend their life savings on anything with the KISS logo on it. I have to give credit to Gene Simmons though. He somehow brainwashed a generation of KISS fans into making him filthy rich, without having one ounce of musical ability.

If KISS gets in does that mean Insane Clown Posse is inducted in 15 years?

*BaseClogger*
10-17-2013, 11:43 AM
Without going on my usual ELO rant, it is good to see some seventies-era bands considered. Hall & Oates has been a huge snub.

You're right, those 70s bands sure are under-represented in the R&R HOF!

medford
10-17-2013, 12:26 PM
Nirvana seems obvious

NWA was at the forfront of the gangsta rap, which lead to a more mainstream acceptance of rap overall and the eventual acceptance of less "hard" rap in the general mainstream. I don't know if a rap group belongs in the Rock n' Roll hall of fame, but I guess that's a mute point since they're nominated.

Not a huge replacements fan, but seems like they'd get a nod for the altenative music crowd.

I don't get the hate for KISS. Granted I grew up beyond their prime, but I wouldn't call them talentless. I don't know where they're songs/albums stand in terms of topping the charts, nor am I musically inclined, I couldn't play an instrument to save my life, but they have a handful of songs that I would call "just plain fun". Rock n' Roll is as much about the show as it is the music. Its why bands like ICP or Marylin Manson continue to thrive in the music business, its why a 100% cute Britney Spears can sell a ton of records, its also why a "crazy" ragged lookin' Britney struggles to gain attention. KISS was huge in the 70s, then had a revilatizaion a few years ago. They may not be the best band musically in the history of music, but as a kid of the 80s (born in the late 70s) KISS always felt big to me.

Chip R
10-17-2013, 01:59 PM
Nirvana seems obvious

NWA was at the forfront of the gangsta rap, which lead to a more mainstream acceptance of rap overall and the eventual acceptance of less "hard" rap in the general mainstream. I don't know if a rap group belongs in the Rock n' Roll hall of fame, but I guess that's a mute point since they're nominated.

Not a huge replacements fan, but seems like they'd get a nod for the altenative music crowd.

I don't get the hate for KISS. Granted I grew up beyond their prime, but I wouldn't call them talentless. I don't know where they're songs/albums stand in terms of topping the charts, nor am I musically inclined, I couldn't play an instrument to save my life, but they have a handful of songs that I would call "just plain fun". Rock n' Roll is as much about the show as it is the music. Its why bands like ICP or Marylin Manson continue to thrive in the music business, its why a 100% cute Britney Spears can sell a ton of records, its also why a "crazy" ragged lookin' Britney struggles to gain attention. KISS was huge in the 70s, then had a revilatizaion a few years ago. They may not be the best band musically in the history of music, but as a kid of the 80s (born in the late 70s) KISS always felt big to me.

I wouldn't have a problem with any of these bands getting in. I'm not a KISS fan but they certainly were influential on a lot of people in the 70s and 80s. Remember, it's the Hall of Fame.

Dom Heffner
10-17-2013, 02:03 PM
I wouldn't have a problem with any of these bands getting in. I'm not a KISS fan but they certainly were influential on a lot of people in the 70s and 80s. Remember, it's the Hall of Fame.

KISS...that's a great debate. Because that catalog is weak. I LOVE them...I wear a KISS tshirt probably once a month...but as a whole there's not much there musically speaking. Depth, I mean.

Their best songs are sung by Peter Criss....such irony...they let him sing the slower songs because they were afraid their fans wouldn't respect them...and they turn out better than most of their harder stuff. Hard luck Woman is KISS doing Rod Stewart and it's a great song.

There's a documentary somewhere that tells the story of "Beth," and it's really one of the better stories in rock n roll.

Dom Heffner
10-17-2013, 02:08 PM
Nirvana seems obvious

NWA was at the forfront of the gangsta rap, which lead to a more mainstream acceptance of rap overall and the eventual acceptance of less "hard" rap in the general mainstream. I don't know if a rap group belongs in the Rock n' Roll hall of fame, but I guess that's a mute point since they're nominated.

Not a huge replacements fan, but seems like they'd get a nod for the altenative music crowd.

I don't get the hate for KISS. Granted I grew up beyond their prime, but I wouldn't call them talentless. I don't know where they're songs/albums stand in terms of topping the charts, nor am I musically inclined, I couldn't play an instrument to save my life, but they have a handful of songs that I would call "just plain fun". Rock n' Roll is as much about the show as it is the music. Its why bands like ICP or Marylin Manson continue to thrive in the music business, its why a 100% cute Britney Spears can sell a ton of records, its also why a "crazy" ragged lookin' Britney struggles to gain attention. KISS was huge in the 70s, then had a revilatizaion a few years ago. They may not be the best band musically in the history of music, but as a kid of the 80s (born in the late 70s) KISS always felt big to me.

I read the thread backwards, didn't see this until after I posted my previous comments.

The last part of your paragraph there is pretty spot on- my only thing with them is that they are more remembered for the artwork on the albums, the makeup, the stage shows then the actual music. But that's simplifying it a bit. There's ten-twelve songs that are really good....and they were about fun...which is rock and roll.

It's a tough sell to voters probably because their legacy is more about other things than the music, at least from a perception standpoint.

westofyou
10-17-2013, 02:22 PM
What's funny to me is that the Mats are called "Alternative" they play straight ahead 3 chord rock n roll

Larkin Fan
10-17-2013, 02:30 PM
Nirvana is a no-doubter, IMO.

Deep Purple deserves a nod. Along with Led Zep and Black Sabbath, they helped pioneer the hard rock and heavy metal sound. Induction into the HOF is a long overdue honor.

Will Dire Straits ever get a nomination?

Wonderful Monds
10-17-2013, 03:03 PM
You know I'll really be interested when The Smiths and Joy Division get their long overdue nomination/induction.

Chip R
10-17-2013, 03:48 PM
KISS...that's a great debate. Because that catalog is weak. I LOVE them...I wear a KISS tshirt probably once a month...but as a whole there's not much there musically speaking. Depth, I mean.

Their best songs are sung by Peter Criss....such irony...they let him sing the slower songs because they were afraid their fans wouldn't respect them...and they turn out better than most of their harder stuff. Hard luck Woman is KISS doing Rod Stewart and it's a great song.

There's a documentary somewhere that tells the story of "Beth," and it's really one of the better stories in rock n roll.

You may have already read this but here's an article about them on Grantland from January.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8838644/the-winners-history-rock-roll-part-2-kiss

Dom Heffner
10-17-2013, 04:12 PM
When I think of them I get happy...I remember looking in the Gold Circle flyer as a kid and searching out the price for the solo albums...because I loved the artwork.

I collect rock memorabilia- and there was a guy who had the green room sign in sheet for one of MTV live shows in England....I paid more than I should have for the one with Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley (and a Def Leppard one post Steve Clark)....and I mounted this huge page with the cover art from the solo records...

They are everywhere in my childhood- from my older cousins, to my youngest years, through high school and a little beyond.

LOVE them...it just always seems we have to qualify them, and that alone gives me pause for the hall of fame....but...if they are that much a part of people...then why not?

They aren't Dylan- but I don't know that you need to be. And if they let Alice Cooper in....Christ, their catalog is every bit of his....and more.

Dom Heffner
10-17-2013, 04:21 PM
Gonna be a sad day for the R&R HOF if KISS gets elected. Possibly the worst rock band of all-time. No hit songs, no great albums, etc ... just a lot makeup, a stage show designed to hide their lack of musical talent, and an odd cult following who were willing to spend their life savings on anything with the KISS logo on it. I have to give credit to Gene Simmons though. He somehow brainwashed a generation of KISS fans into making him filthy rich, without having one ounce of musical ability.

No hit songs? That is not a true statement. Doesn't mean they are good, but they had hits.

*BaseClogger*
10-17-2013, 04:33 PM
What's funny to me is that the Mats are called "Alternative" they play straight ahead 3 chord rock n roll

True, but Minor Threat played three chords too.

The Replacements did it at a time when back-to-basics garage rock wasn't considered cool or being played on the radio. Plus, you can hear their experience from the hardcore scene shine through along with The Beatles and their other influences in their music...

medford
10-17-2013, 05:23 PM
All of this KISS discussion got me wondering, what exactly is the conversation going to look like in another 8 (probably longer) years when Nickelback is up for discussion. I wouldnt' say I'm a Nickelback fan, don't own any CDs, downloads, etc... wouldnt' consider seeing them in concert or bringing them up on youtube, I know them for only 2 things, 1) the handful of songs that I've heard on the radio, and 2) the seemingly absolute hatred of their music.

As I mentioned before, I couldnt' play a note on any instrument to save my life, so I'm not really in position to critic anyone musically, but from what I've heard on the radio they don't deserve all the negative feedback that they do get. I've asked the question before, and I've never seen an answer that made me understood the seemingly universal hatred from the musically sophisticated crowd that they get. At any rate, the mention of ICP in relation to KISS got me thinking, so I looked them up on wiki and was surprised to find that they released their first record in 1995, and if I read things correctly, they'd be eligible for nomination 25 years removed from their first record. I doubt they get nominated their first year eligible but have been seemingly commericially successful enough that they'll be up for consideration and perhaps eventually nomination some day.

That is a day I look forward to on the internet; it may just break the day it happens.

marcshoe
10-17-2013, 09:05 PM
I can't see Nickelback ever being nominated.

westofyou
10-17-2013, 09:31 PM
I can't see Nickelback ever being nominated.

No, but they were really good in helping Frodo get rid of that ring

757690
10-17-2013, 10:25 PM
The Replacements are a great college bar band. They would play their guts out until the drugs wore off. Take a break. Do more drugs. Then go back onstage and play their guts out. But they simply don't have the songs to be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, imo.

And if Kiss gets in, Spinal Tap has to be next.

The DARK
10-17-2013, 10:29 PM
Nirvana, Replacements, NWA, Peter Gabriel, Yes.

Yachtzee
10-18-2013, 12:12 AM
I loved KISS when I was 6-9 years old, but then my musical tastes were much simpler then. I have a picture from my first communion party wearing a KISS shirt. When they took off the make-up, I said to myself, "Man, these guys stink." It's like overnight they transformed from a Glam Rock party band into the World's ugliest hair band. "Tears Are Falling" is a terrible song. There's a reason why KISS rarely play the songs from their no make-up era ever since they went back to wearing make-up.

I hope the Replacements get in. Nirvana will get in, but I hope it boosts the Pixies and Sonic Youth, who were the bands that had a lot of influence on Nirvana.

I still don't get why Chic has been nominated 8 times.

marcshoe
10-18-2013, 12:48 AM
I'm worried that the popularity of Daft Punk will boost Chic's chances'

Revering4Blue
10-18-2013, 12:53 AM
I wouldn't have a problem with any of these bands getting in. I'm not a KISS fan but they certainly were influential on a lot of people in the 70s and 80s. Remember, it's the Hall of Fame.

This is the true crux of the problem with the selection process, IMO.

Save for "Heart Luck Woman" -- The only KISS song that I'll go out of my way to listen too -- I'm not particularly a KISS fan, but there's no denying that they had a much larger impact on the popular music world -- let's face it, it isn't really a "Rock And Roll" Hall Of Fame any more -- than several previously inducted acts. I can also state the same thing about acts that have been yet to even be nominated, such as ELO, Iron Maiden and Jethro Tull, to name a few.

The opinion of Critics plays way too large of a role in the selection process. And just to show that I'm not playing favorites, I'm perfectly fine with deserving, influential artists from genres that I really cannot stand (read: Beastie Boys and LL Cool J) inducted well ahead of critically acclaimed bands that I like (read: Replacements and Pixies) that just don't have a heck of a lot of material on their resume and/or didn't really impact the music world with a small catalog in such a short period of time the way that Nirvana did, which is virtually impossible to accomplish, I know.

joshua
10-18-2013, 02:25 AM
Replacements might be my favorite band of all time...but I don't think they should get in before Motorhead.

marcshoe
10-18-2013, 07:24 AM
If the Replacements were let in, wouldn't someone else have to be taken out?

moewan
10-18-2013, 09:46 AM
Still waiting for Cheap Trick to get a nod, 38 years into their career and still going strong.

redsmetz
10-18-2013, 10:06 AM
If the Replacements were let in, wouldn't someone else have to be taken out?

Would the music world require a new stat? VORB? Value Over Replacements Band?

westofyou
10-18-2013, 10:20 AM
No ELO and no Cheap Trick!! So much power pop left unloved

mdccclxix
10-18-2013, 11:32 AM
How is Cat Stevens not in?

Nirvana
Cat Stevens
The Meters
Kiss

mdccclxix
10-18-2013, 11:39 AM
LL Cool J as an influence of rock and roll? I don't really buy that. He was a chart topper, not an innovator. NWA is definitely an early innovator of rap, but I would need to see how it became rock and roll other than artists saying they listened to it.

Dom Heffner
10-18-2013, 12:34 PM
This is the true crux of the problem with the selection process, IMO.

Save for "Heart Luck Woman" -- The only KISS song that I'll go out of my way to listen too -- I'm not particularly a KISS fan, but there's no denying that they had a much larger impact on the popular music world -- let's face it, it isn't really a "Rock And Roll" Hall Of Fame any more -- than several previously inducted acts. I can also state the same thing about acts that have been yet to even be nominated, such as ELO, Iron Maiden and Jethro Tull, to name a few.

The opinion of Critics plays way too large of a role in the selection process. And just to show that I'm not playing favorites, I'm perfectly fine with deserving, influential artists from genres that I really cannot stand (read: Beastie Boys and LL Cool J) inducted well ahead of critically acclaimed bands that I like (read: Replacements and Pixies) that just don't have a heck of a lot of material on their resume and/or didn't really impact the music world with a small catalog in such a short period of time the way that Nirvana did, which is virtually impossible to accomplish, I know.

Alice Cooper is there- and for me, ELO is about fifty times better.

The problem with the Hall of Fame is that a lot of people are there for influence. Eh, you know, let's make it about the catalog. Alice Cooper may have been the first theater horror guy...but he isn't someone I can sit down and listen to for very long. Some of you guys who are a bit older than I am can set me straight on that, but I listen to the radio for hours a day and never hear a single song of his.

The Replacements- I like them...they could get in because people want to feel cool voting for them...but it's another band who 9 out of 10 people couldn't name one song. Maybe you can make that case that for what they were in alternative music they were pretty big....I just don't see it. But I hate Radiohead, so what do I know.

Revering4Blue
10-18-2013, 01:51 PM
Alice Cooper is there- and for me, ELO is about fifty times better.

The problem with the Hall of Fame is that a lot of people are there for influence. Eh, you know, let's make it about the catalog. Alice Cooper may have been the first theater horror guy...but he isn't someone I can sit down and listen to for very long. Some of you guys who are a bit older than I am can set me straight on that, but I listen to the radio for hours a day and never hear a single song of his.

The Replacements- I like them...they could get in because people want to feel cool voting for them...but it's another band who 9 out of 10 people couldn't name one song. Maybe you can make that case that for what they were in alternative music they were pretty big....I just don't see it. But I hate Radiohead, so what do I know.

Again, this where the role of critics in the selection process comes into play.

Unfortunately, Alice Cooper -- and this ties in with our discussions on the AOR thread -- is another victim of shrinking Classic Rock radio playlists. OTTOMH, I can name six or seven of his former AOR hits, including some really good ballads, that are ignored today because the suits decided that "School's Out", "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and "Eighteen" are the only tracks that listeners want to hear.

Revering4Blue
10-18-2013, 02:01 PM
I still don't get why Chic has been nominated 8 times.

Simply judging by genre/era, The Spinners and Earth, Wind and Fire, are, far, far more deserving than Chic.

westofyou
10-18-2013, 02:17 PM
Simply judging by genre/era, The Spinners and Earth, Wind and Fire, are, far, far more deserving than Chic.

I've been to maybe 500 concerts, the Riverfront Coliseum concert I saw of EW&F in 77 was still one of the very best

KittyDuran
10-18-2013, 02:34 PM
Simply judging by genre/era, The Spinners and Earth, Wind and Fire, are, far, far more deserving than Chic.

And if you're judging by just songs I would agree - but I believe they are getting nominated not only because of the influence but also the collaborations Nile and Bernard have had over the years.

PedroBourbon
10-18-2013, 02:54 PM
How is Cat Stevens not in?




Because he became muslim and changed his name to Yusuf Islam, that is exactly why.


The sheer length of KISS' career and album sales alone SHOULD get them in. The Hall has always had it out for these guys, I guess they are perceived as a gimmick. I think Gene Simmons is one arrogant SOB but he is one heck of a business person and has become super wealthy as a result.

westofyou
10-18-2013, 03:14 PM
Because he became muslim and changed his name to Yusuf Islam, that is exactly why.


The sheer length of KISS' career and album sales alone SHOULD get them in. The Hall has always had it out for these guys, I guess they are perceived as a gimmick. I think Gene Simmons is one arrogant SOB but he is one heck of a business person and has become super wealthy as a result.

Or it could be he had a handful of good albums (one great) and quit the business.

But you're probably more right than me (IE see Heart)

Dom Heffner
10-18-2013, 04:46 PM
Again, this where the role of critics in the selection process comes into play.

Unfortunately, Alice Cooper -- and this ties in with our discussions on the AOR thread -- is another victim of shrinking Classic Rock radio playlists. OTTOMH, I can name six or seven of his former AOR hits, including some really good ballads, that are ignored today because the suits decided that "School's Out", "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and "Eighteen" are the only tracks that listeners want to hear.

Interesting.

I did spend an entire evening sampling songs on Itunes....could not get into Mr. Cooper's stuff.

I was just a little guy when he would have been at his peak....so I can't speak to his affect on the era....good to know there is some stuff there worth listening to.

Chip R
10-18-2013, 05:02 PM
Because he became muslim and changed his name to Yusuf Islam, that is exactly why.

That could be it. Or could it be that he is perceived as more of a pop singer than a rock-n-roller? Who would be similar artists that were already inducted? Percy Sledge? James Taylor? Solomon Burke? Dion? Donovan? Leonard Cohen? Plus he quit at the height of his success and then didn't come back for 17 more years.

I know there are a lot of pop, folk, blues, jazz and country artists in the RRHOF but I hear his music and I don't think Rock n Roll.

Yachtzee
10-18-2013, 06:24 PM
And if you're judging by just songs I would agree - but I believe they are getting nominated not only because of the influence but also the collaborations Nile and Bernard have had over the years.

But then why not take that into consideration for Jeff Lynne and ELO?

westofyou
10-18-2013, 06:49 PM
That could be it. Or could it be that he is perceived as more of a pop singer than a rock-n-roller? Who would be similar artists that were already inducted? Percy Sledge? James Taylor? Solomon Burke? Dion? Donovan? Leonard Cohen? Plus he quit at the height of his success and then didn't come back for 17 more years.

I know there are a lot of pop, folk, blues, jazz and country artists in the RRHOF but I hear his music and I don't think Rock n Roll.

Donovan hell yes

Revering4Blue
10-18-2013, 11:00 PM
That could be it. Or could it be that he is perceived as more of a pop singer than a rock-n-roller? Who would be similar artists that were already inducted? Percy Sledge? James Taylor? Solomon Burke? Dion? Donovan? Leonard Cohen? Plus he quit at the height of his success and then didn't come back for 17 more years.

I know there are a lot of pop, folk, blues, jazz and country artists in the RRHOF but I hear his music and I don't think Rock n Roll.

James Taylor is, IMO, a really good comparison. Just as James Taylor's music was a staple on FM Rock radio throughout his heyday, Cat Stevens was, as well.

Of course, the definition of "Rock" continues to vary depending upon the individual listener, regardless of FM Rock radio. Some things never change.

Revering4Blue
10-18-2013, 11:11 PM
Interesting.

I did spend an entire evening sampling songs on Itunes....could not get into Mr. Cooper's stuff.

I was just a little guy when he would have been at his peak....so I can't speak to his affect on the era....good to know there is some stuff there worth listening to.

Believe it or not, so was I (Elementary School during the mid-to-late 70's). In most cases, it wasn't until listening to AOR stations years later that I realized it was, indeed, Alice Cooper's music that I had been listening to. Having said that, I also cannot definitively speak about his affect on the era, at least at his peak, but I have to believe, and hope, that it was larger than Morris Albert or The Starland Vocal Band. :laugh:

757690
10-19-2013, 05:22 PM
Donovan hell yes

Crazy story:

Saw Cheap Trick do a tribute to Sgt. Pepper's 50th anniversary at the Hollywood Bowl a few years ago. Their guitar tech was Donovan.

RichRed
10-19-2013, 05:56 PM
I saw Cheap Trick about ten years ago in a venue that holds about 1800 people, and the place was maybe 60% full, which made me a little sad. They put on a great show and Zander still had those insane pipes. I assumed they were already in the R&R HOF; it's just weird that they're not.

PedroBourbon
10-20-2013, 03:00 PM
Crazy story:

Saw Cheap Trick do a tribute to Sgt. Pepper's 50th anniversary at the Hollywood Bowl a few years ago. Their guitar tech was Donovan.

I have that on DVD and CD. It was an awesome show. You were really lucky to see that.

I saw them in Cinci at the Taft theatre last summer. Great show, place wasn't 1/3 full, if that.

George Anderson
10-20-2013, 03:24 PM
Crazy story:

Saw Cheap Trick do a tribute to Sgt. Pepper's 50th anniversary at the Hollywood Bowl a few years ago. Their guitar tech was Donovan.

Some interesting trivia about Donovan. His daughter is Ione Skye who played in the 80's classic Say Anything with John Cusak.

Dave Collins
11-12-2013, 04:08 PM
Deep Purple and Yes should already be in there...and not because I even really like them but KISS should be as well...not for who they are now but for what they were. KISS set the benchmark for arena rock. Plus I really like Gene's kids. Heck just induct his family.

Dave Collins
11-12-2013, 05:44 PM
I did spend an entire evening sampling songs on Itunes....could not get into Mr. Cooper's stuff.

You might very well change your mind if you listen to the Alice Cooper album "A Fistful of Alice". It was recorded live in 1996 at Sammy Hagar's Cabo Wabo club in San Lucus, Mexico. The sound (and energy level) is absolutely amazing, as well as an allstar lineup:

Alice Cooper – lead vocals
Reb Beach – guitar, backing vocals
Ryan Roxie – guitar
Paul Taylor – keyboards, guitar
Todd Jensen – bass, backing vocals
Jimmy DeGrasso – drums
Rob Zombie – guest vocals on Elected and Feed My Frankenstein
Slash – lead guitar on Lost in America, Only Women Bleed and Elected
Sammy Hagar – lead guitar on School’s Out

Dom Heffner
11-13-2013, 08:37 AM
I'll take a listen, Dave!

Revering4Blue
12-17-2013, 04:57 PM
The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame announced its inductees for 2014 today. Hall & Oates, Nirvana and KISS are among the legendary performers that will be inducted this year.

Held at the Brooklyn Barclays Center in New York, the 29th Annual Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony will take place on Thursday, April 10, and, for the first time in NY, will be open to the public.

Additional performers being inducted into Rock Hall include Peter Gabriel, Linda Ronstadt and Cat Stevens

In the cases of Hall & Oates and Cat Stevens, it's about time. IMO, though, Peter Gabriel, as a solo artist, should not be in ahead of Deep Purple.

marcshoe
12-17-2013, 10:32 PM
Surprises me a bit. I didn't think KISS would go in so easily. And no Replacements.

Dom Heffner
12-17-2013, 10:34 PM
Surprises me a bit. I didn't think KISS would go in so easily. And no Replacements.

The Replacements are so fringy- great vand, nobody knows who they are.

Dom Heffner
12-17-2013, 10:37 PM
In the cases of Hall & Oates and Cat Stevens, it's about time. IMO, though, Peter Gabriel, as a solo artist, should not be in ahead of Deep Purple.

Hall and Oates are getting killed on some parts of the web right now but they were great.

Good point about Deep Purple. Gabriel is deserving, just seems odd he gets two
inductions and DP isn't even in.

marcshoe
12-17-2013, 10:43 PM
The Replacements are so fringy- great vand, nobody knows who they are.

Hey, I do! I have several of their songs on my current playlist.

Always loved Deep Purple, too, with their deep, foggy music. Maybe next year, and maybe ELO will eventually score a nomination.

Personally, I'm particularly happy about Hall & Oates, Peter Gabriel, and Cat Stevens. Tea for the Tillerman was a great, trippy album that I've always weirdly associated with The White Album.

_Sir_Charles_
12-24-2013, 01:27 PM
Without going on my usual ELO rant, it is good to see some seventies-era bands considered. Hall & Oates has been a huge snub.

Agreed. On both parts. I know that Hall & Oates aren't to some people's tastes...but the sheer number of hits they had back in the 80's was astonishing.

And not having ELO in there...that's just stupid. Personally, I think the R&R hall of fame should be exactly that. Rock and Roll. Put rappers in a different venue. NWA and the Beatles should NEVER be in the same building. EVER!

Dom Heffner
12-24-2013, 03:43 PM
Im going to repeat how thrilled I am with Hall and Oates getting in.

Daryl's voice is a treasure. Never sang a refrain the same way twice.

Dom Heffner
12-24-2013, 03:43 PM
Agreed. On both parts. I know that Hall & Oates aren't to some people's tastes...but the sheer number of hits they had back in the 80's was astonishing.

And not having ELO in there...that's just stupid. Personally, I think the R&R hall of fame should be exactly that. Rock and Roll. Put rappers in a different venue. NWA and the Beatles should NEVER be in the same building. EVER!

I can buy this. Rap and rock are two different animals.

westofyou
12-24-2013, 03:51 PM
The Replacements are so fringy- great vand, nobody knows who they are.

I have all their albums as well as all Westerbergs, he's a freaking treasure

Dom Heffner
12-24-2013, 04:15 PM
I have all their albums as well as all Westerbergs, he's a freaking treasure

Oh, I love them. I could bring them up at a party Im at right now, Id be the one who knew who they were.

A treasure, yes, though.

_Sir_Charles_
12-24-2013, 04:38 PM
Outside of country/western and rap...I consider myself pretty well versed with music of the last 50 or 60 years. How is it that I have never even HEARD of the Replacements before. Is this one of those bands that I "know" but I just don't know their name? What should I listen to from them?

Dom Heffner
12-24-2013, 04:55 PM
Outside of country/western and rap...I consider myself pretty well versed with music of the last 50 or 60 years. How is it that I have never even HEARD of the Replacements before. Is this one of those bands that I "know" but I just don't know their name? What should I listen to from them?

See? See? LOL...

Youd have to have been a record store nut hanging out in the modern rock section...or listen to your areas version of 97X...

It's great stuff, not for the masses...or it never caught on. Just a few fractions shy of being commercial.

The closest sniff to mainstream was maybe, what "I'll be You" or "Alex Chilton"?

marcshoe
12-24-2013, 06:09 PM
I have memories of "I'll be you" being played on mainstream radio. I don't think they're false memories, but who knows?

Dom Heffner
12-24-2013, 06:25 PM
I have memories of "I'll be you" being played on mainstream radio. I don't think they're false memories, but who knows?

Cincinnati radio was so gunshy. I dont remember it being played there...

Revering4Blue
12-24-2013, 06:52 PM
I have memories of "I'll be you" being played on mainstream radio. I don't think they're false memories, but who knows?

As I covered in the AOR thread ** shameless plug ** "I'll Be You" hit #1 on Billboard's Mainstream Rock Tracks chart back in '89, so I'm fairly certain they were not false memories.

Other assorted Replacements and Westerberg tracks were big on Modern Rock/Alternative radio, but hit or miss on Mainstream rock radio. No matter, I've never heard anything by Westerberg or the 'Ments that wasn't good.

Revering4Blue
12-24-2013, 07:03 PM
I can buy this. Rap and rock are two different animals.

As far as I'm concerned, Rap and anything are different animals. Be that as it may, I've come to accept the fact that it is now the Popular Music Hall Of Fame, rather than the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame.

Given the above, OTTOMH, the biggest glaring omissions are, in no particular order: ELO, Deep Purple, Chubby Checker and The Monkees, but there are several omissions yet to have been even nominated.

westofyou
12-24-2013, 07:39 PM
Outside of country/western and rap...I consider myself pretty well versed with music of the last 50 or 60 years. How is it that I have never even HEARD of the Replacements before. Is this one of those bands that I "know" but I just don't know their name? What should I listen to from them?

Have you heard of Teenage Fanclub?

Pavement
The Archers of Loaf
Superchunk
The Feelies
Television
The Pretty Things
Lothar and the hill people
The Minutemen
American Music Club


Zillions of bands out there


The Mats are what the Goo Goo Doll pretended to be

Dom Heffner
12-24-2013, 08:21 PM
As I covered in the AOR thread ** shameless plug ** "I'll Be You" hit #1 on Billboard's Mainstream Rock Tracks chart back in '89, so I'm fairly certain they were not false memories.

Other assorted Replacements and Westerberg tracks were big on Modern Rock/Alternative radio, but hit or miss on Mainstream rock radio. No matter, I've never heard anything by Westerberg or the 'Ments that wasn't good.

yeah, let me clarify- they would not have been on maonstream radio...maybe 97X, or anyone who played modern rock...but in Cincy in 1989...I dont see it on top 40....or any station other than 97X....

marcshoe
12-24-2013, 08:53 PM
Yeah, I used the word mainstream kind of loosely, meaning commercial/regular/top 40.

Dom Heffner
12-24-2013, 09:05 PM
Yeah, I used the word mainstream kind of loosely, meaning commercial/regular/top 40.

"I'll be you" is just great...

marcshoe
12-24-2013, 10:20 PM
I've listened to it twice since it was mentioned.

Johnny Footstool
12-25-2013, 01:37 AM
Rolling Stone considered The Replacements' "Tim" one of the top 10 albums of all time (at one point). They proclaimed it an angry, angsty rock classic. I bought it, listened to it, and loved it, but didn't *love* it.

Decades later, I finally listened to Archers of Loaf's "Icky Mettle." It was everything I expected "Tim" to be.

If you love rock that pairs rage with listenable hooks, "Icky Mettle" is for you. "Tim" too, but to a lesser degree.

Johnny Footstool
12-25-2013, 01:40 AM
What should I listen to from them?

Try "Alex Chilton", "Left of the Dial", "Little Mascara," and "Answering Machine." If those songs speak to you, you're a Replacements fan.

westofyou
12-25-2013, 02:38 AM
Try "Alex Chilton", "Left of the Dial", "Little Mascara," and "Answering Machine." If those songs speak to you, you're a Replacements fan.

We'll inherit the earth
Can't Hardly Wait
Unsatisfied
Someone take the wheel
The Ledge

westofyou
12-25-2013, 02:39 AM
Rolling Stone considered The Replacements' "Tim" one of the top 10 albums of all time (at one point). They proclaimed it an angry, angsty rock classic. I bought it, listened to it, and loved it, but didn't *love* it.

Decades later, I finally listened to Archers of Loaf's "Icky Mettle." It was everything I expected "Tim" to be.

If you love rock that pairs rage with listenable hooks, "Icky Mettle" is for you. "Tim" too, but to a lesser degree.

Saw the loaf in 94 and last year, both epic and thoroughly enjoyable

GAC
12-25-2013, 06:01 AM
Along with Led Zep and Black Sabbath, they helped pioneer the hard rock and heavy metal sound. Induction into the HOF is a long overdue honor.

I don't follow the Rock n Roll HOF. I really could care less. But when you said the above I was astounded that these two bands weren't in there.

It appears they both are... LZ in 1995, and BS in 2006

I actually took the tme to browse the list of those that are currently in... and when I see some that have made it ....yet it took Alice Cooper so long to get in .... and bands like ELO, Deep Purple, and even Rush aren't??

They can stick it! They're a joke IMO. :p

marcshoe
12-25-2013, 12:56 PM
Rush was inducted this past year.

klw
12-25-2013, 01:49 PM
I am glad to see the E Street Band getting inducted. I understand why they were technically inelligible for so long (they were not listed as the artist on a release until Live 75-85) so it is good they are now going in.

*BaseClogger*
12-25-2013, 05:40 PM
Is there really a lack of "70s bands" in the HoF?

westofyou
12-25-2013, 08:54 PM
Is there really a lack of "70s bands" in the HoF?

Until Shoes are in there yes

Revering4Blue
12-25-2013, 09:05 PM
Is there really a lack of "70s bands" in the HoF?

IMO, it all boils down to impact, and there are several omitted/yet to even be nominated artists that fit the criteria -- in some cases, more so than already inducted acts (Laura Nyro? Come on). And no, that doesn't mean that a band that reached it's peak in the 70's or 80's is more deserving or influential than, for example, the recently inducted Red Hot Chili Peppers or Nirvana -- not by a long-shot.

Believe me, You'll see plenty of artists who peaked in the 90's or later inducted in the future. Pearl Jam should be a slam dunk, and cases can be made for, among others: Collective Soul, The Smashing Pumpkins and STP, but the general consensus that bands such as ELO and Deep Purple remain unjustly omitted, among other bands of the era, remains.

Johnny Footstool
12-25-2013, 10:45 PM
Can't Hardly Wait


This version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M7q5Mn3-oM&noredirect=1

If this had been on "Tim," man, oh, man.

*BaseClogger*
12-26-2013, 11:41 AM
This is The Replacements at their best:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHvFosAvtvw

*BaseClogger*
12-26-2013, 11:42 AM
IMO, it all boils down to impact, and there are several omitted/yet to even be nominated artists that fit the criteria -- in some cases, more so than already inducted acts (Laura Nyro? Come on). And no, that doesn't mean that a band that reached it's peak in the 70's or 80's is more deserving or influential than, for example, the recently inducted Red Hot Chili Peppers or Nirvana -- not by a long-shot.

Believe me, You'll see plenty of artists who peaked in the 90's or later inducted in the future. Pearl Jam should be a slam dunk, and cases can be made for, among others: Collective Soul, The Smashing Pumpkins and STP, but the general consensus that bands such as ELO and Deep Purple remain unjustly omitted, among other bands of the era, remains.

What about bands from the early 80s that are still waiting? Where's Black Flag?

_Sir_Charles_
12-26-2013, 12:32 PM
Have you heard of Teenage Fanclub?

Pavement
The Archers of Loaf
Superchunk
The Feelies
Television
The Pretty Things
Lothar and the hill people
The Minutemen
American Music Club


Zillions of bands out there


The Mats are what the Goo Goo Doll pretended to be

I strike out on that list with the exception of The Minutemen. I was never a record-store buff. Strictly radio for me. But wide ranging as just about every person in my family liked a different style of music from a different era. Classical to disco to rock to pop to heavy metal to new age to C&W. But if it wasn't on the radio (or in my families record, tape or 8-track collection) then no luck.

Mutaman
12-26-2013, 06:10 PM
This thread could be renamed: "Rock and Roll is Dead" (And I don't care) .

Revering4Blue
12-26-2013, 10:01 PM
What about bands from the early 80s that are still waiting? Where's Black Flag?

I think we can all agree about the absurdity of the entire selection process.

Really good call on Blag Flag, BTW, as they are often overlooked, despite the fact they were highly influential. Of that era, I'll also echo the sentiments of those who believe that Joy Division, The Smiths and The Cure should get the call.

westofyou
12-26-2013, 10:37 PM
I think we can all agree about the absurdity of the entire selection process.

Really good call on Blag Flag, BTW, as they are often overlooked, despite the fact they were highly influential. Of that era, I'll also echo the sentiments of those who believe that Joy Division, The Smiths and The Cure should get the call.

The Smiths and The Cure need to be there more than many that's for sure