Reds interested in Beltran.....I hope thats sign of....

[Redsville]

having money to spend elsewhere and not necessarily on him. IMO, as good as he's been lately, he doesn't fit I for us. He needs to sign with a team that has LF/RF/DH spot available in the American League. If he wants 3 years at that age and looking for 10+ mil a year that's his best fit.

Now, if we are being mentioned as being interested, then we appear to have 10-15 mil a year to go towards a player, even after arbitration raises and not trading BP yet. I think we need to go after a CF with some pop like Granderson, or another guy via trade with a sizeable contract already, that has a high OBP, alittle pop, and right handed.

I hope that's what this is really telling us, because I don't see Beltran a fit, but maybe that's their way of letting us know there is that kind of money to spend.

[SporkLover]

According to Brandon Phillips, Cast has invented a new vegetable.

Reds need to just lock up Chooooooo.

[villain612]

I guess it all depends on the kind of deal it would be. In the end, I don't think the Reds get him.

[RedsBrick]

At the end of the day who really knows what or how something was communicated in this situation? So, who really knows the interest level of the Reds?

But I tend to agree...I'm not sure he fits. I'm sure his leadership would be appreciated in the dugout, but where does he play? Can he hold up? At what point does he begin to decline and do the Reds want the back-end of that contract?

[Strike3Called]

You should front load the contract like the Cards did with Peralta. But....Beltran doesn't fit there. Your corner spots are taken with Bruce and Luddy.

[daddylovesabby]

What's the latest on choo I know he turned down the 14.1 mill

[malcontent]

Beltran is certainly an interesting notion, somewhere on the border between fantasy and reality.

One of those moves you'd need a computer to weigh all the factors involved.

I almost think that Walt is going to make it close, if not actually happen.

[JayBruceFan]

You should front load the contract like the Cards did with Peralta. But....Beltran doesn't fit there. Your corner spots are taken with Bruce and Luddy.

If Ryan Ludwick is the only thing standing between the Reds and Carlos Beltran I will drive him out of town myself

[757690]

If Ryan Ludwick is the only thing standing between the Reds and Carlos Beltran I will drive him out of town myself

Will you pay his contract too? That's what's keeping him here ;)

[757690]

You should front load the contract like the Cards did with Peralta. But....Beltran doesn't fit there. Your corner spots are taken with Bruce and Luddy.

Way off the subject, but is that Mike Tyson as your avatar? If it is... Super awesome :thumbup:

[Strike3Called]

If Ryan Ludwick is the only thing standing between the Reds and Carlos Beltran I will drive him out of town myself

Dont get caught up in the name value. In 2012 Luddy gave you a 2.6 WAR. Beltran posted a 2.0 WAR last year. If Luddy wasnt hurt all season he'd have done the same. Beltran is going to give you a 120-125 OPS+ or so but you're paying way to much for that and wont even get it for the entire season.

Plus u dont wanna sign Beltran and have to give us your draft pick do you? Imagine all the scenarios in which that draft pick we get off you throws a couple no hitters against you for us or hits a few walk offs on you. You dont want that karma :):)

[Strike3Called]

Way off the subject, but is that Mike Tyson as your avatar? If it is... Super awesome :thumbup:

hahaha why yes it is. ;) and thanks for the props haha.

[Halfway between]

We all know that sooner or later CB's age will catch up to him. Those legs aren't impervious to fair wear and tear. The Cards dodged a bullet. Beltran is gonna want a 3 year contract to fill in his HOF push. Chances are some time in there he will come up hobbling. Without good wheels, those numbers fall off a cliff.

The same thing could happen to Luddy of course, but you don't have to commit as long or pay as much. Beltran's gonna be in the 40-50M range @ 3 years.

[SporkLover]

Dont get caught up in the name value. In 2012 Luddy gave you a 2.6 WAR. Beltran posted a 2.0 WAR last year. If Luddy wasnt hurt all season he'd have done the same. Beltran is going to give you a 120-125 OPS+ or so but you're paying way to much for that and wont even get it for the entire season.

Plus u dont wanna sign Beltran and have to give us your draft pick do you? Imagine all the scenarios in which that draft pick we get off you throws a couple no hitters against you for us or hits a few walk offs on you. You dont want that karma :):)

You know thats what alot of pundits said about Beltran when he was signed in STL. He's hurt all the time, bleh bleh bleh. I think he has shown that he has durability and deserves the benefit of the doubt. That being said considering his age, the best bet for him is an AL team so his bat isn't lost when he is resting from outfield duties.

Oh and the Cards don't get the Reds draft pick, the Reds forfeit their pick, and the cards gain a compensatory round pick if this scenario plays out.

[Ladeda]

Beltran turns 37 in April correct? Signing him and losing a draft pick is bad enough as this is one of the stronger draft classes over the past few years.

He's 37, his WAR has gone from 4.5 to 3.8 to 2.4. That's not a good trend line. You can't really expect him to be much better than 2.4 next year given his age, and he has a better shot of being closer to 1.5 or worse, then a 3 WAR.

Signing him and not using the money to extend Latos, Cueto and Bailey is a huge problem.

Signing him to a 3 year deal would be awful as it would block Winker and Erwin in 2016.

Money would be better off upgrading another position. Why pay $10mm plus (who knows what he will get) for a 2 WAR or potentially worse- a 1.0 WAR or less. We already have 1 of those LF's-- his name is Ludwick-- we don't need a 2nd.

The Reds don't have an infinite payroll-- spending good money on Beltran wouldn't be wise.

[Mike Honcho]

Beltran turns 37 in April correct? Signing him and losing a draft pick is bad enough as this is one of the stronger draft classes over the past few years.

He's 37, his WAR has gone from 4.5 to 3.8 to 2.4. That's not a good trend line. You can't really expect him to be much better than 2.4 next year given his age, and he has a better shot of being closer to 1.5 or worse, then a 3 WAR.

Signing him and not using the money to extend Latos, Cueto and Bailey is a huge problem.

Signing him to a 3 year deal would be awful as it would block Winker and Erwin in 2016.

Money would be better off upgrading another position. Why pay $10mm plus (who knows what he will get) for a 2 WAR or potentially worse- a 1.0 WAR or less. We already have 1 of those LF's-- his name is Ludwick-- we don't need a 2nd.

The Reds don't have an infinite payroll-- spending good money on Beltran wouldn't be wise.

I think whoever signs Beltran is going to regret it but the Reds just can't afford it, period. 2014 would probably be ok but you know he'll get hurt at some point during that contract. When Luddy went down that destroyed the line up last season. Why go down that road again?

[malcontent]

Reds need to just lock up Chooooooo.
Agreed. For awhile the talk about his struggles against LHP had me going, but he actually had a .347 OBP against LHP last year (.340 career). Not bad.

He also seems to have the perfect attitude as a team player. Reds will lose a lot if he leaves.

[Halfway between]

Agreed. For awhile the talk about his struggles against LHP had me going, but he actually had a .347 OBP against LHP last year (.340 career). Not bad.

He also seems to have the perfect attitude as a team player. Reds will lose a lot if he leaves.

If they sign Choo, what's that do to the chances of signing Bruce? There's not an unlimited supply of money for LTC's.

[Mike Honcho]

If they sign Choo, what's that do to the chances of signing Bruce? There's not an unlimited supply of money for LTC's.

Exactly. Choo was never coming back.

[Strike3Called]

Choo has 2.4 and 5.2 WAR the last two years. Bruce has 2.2 and 4.1

If you can only lock up 1, it should be Choo. Here is why:


If Shin-Soo Choo's game was reliant on speed, athleticism, defense or power, he'd be one of the biggest risks on the free-agent market. At the age of 31, all of those skills will deteriorate over the life of a long-term deal.

Yet, Choo is on this list because of a skill that won't wain over the years. In fact, it could become more prolific as the outfielder garners more plate appearances and becomes an even more accomplished hitter in the box.

Since becoming a full-time player in 2009, Choo ranks fifth in all of baseball (Baseball-Reference PI subscription required) with a .392 on-base percentage, including a .423 mark in 2013. The only players ahead of Choo on the list of on-base machines: Joey Votto, Miguel Cabrera, Prince Fielder and Joe Mauer.



Signing Bruce long term will show a drastic decline of the skill(s) that you're signing him for over the life on the contract. Choo would be your lead off hitter for his entire career....never really under performing the skill set you're paying him for. He could move to a corner OF and let Hamilton take over CF at some point. Choo's a better long term deal than Bruce.

[mth123]

Jay Bruce is only 26, but he's already locked up for the next four years. The best prospects are outfielders and they are coming in droves by then. I don't think the Reds need to lock-up Bruce unless they can get a sweetheart deal. As much as I like the guy, a new deal for him is just not a priority at this point IMO.

[Old school 1983]

Jay Bruce is only 26, but he's already locked up for the next four years. The best prospects are outfielders and they are coming in droves by then. I don't think the Reds need to lock-up Bruce unless they can get a sweetheart deal. As much as I like the guy, a new deal for him is just not a priority at this point IMO.

I totally agree. The organizations strength is in the outfield in the minor league levels. Hamilton, Ervin, Winker, and YRod offer some serious depths there and I can't see all of them failing. They could offer productive major league pieces in a few years, trade chips now, or if enough of them pan out, they could turn Bruce, who will be expensive in comparison, into a trade chip.

This, to me, actually comes full circle when considering signing Beltran. Choo would require a larger financial commitment over a larger number of years. He would do more to block cheaper younger, and at that point, potentially more productive younger players. If Beltran can be signed for less years and money, in 2014 he could grab the lions share of the playing time while Ludwick could be kept in reserve if an injury occurs. IMO he is a much better backup plan than we saw in 2013, despite his cost. The following year, I'd be willing to bet one of the aforementioned outfield prospects would be ready to cover left field in the event of an injury to Beltran, and then the year after than partake in a platoon with a prospect the following year in order to ease the prospect into the majors. I definitely think there is an injury risk associated with Beltran, but if the Reds play their cards right it can be covered much better than the Ludwick injey of 2013. Also Beltran would help to make up some of Choo's production without having to trade a proven big league piece. Yes you'd have to give up a draft pick, but at that point, the Reds may be able to flip the players that are constantly mentioned as potential trade options here for a known commodity prospect that could possibly be better than what could be drafted.

[Strike3Called]

Choo gets on base more than 90% of the people in baseball. Im not sure he'd be blocking someone more productive in your farm system. The ability he has is not the sort of ability to decline over time. Think this guy:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gwynnto01.shtml

He's a great investment....especially playing Center. As he gets older he can move to one of the corners.

[Old school 1983]

Choo gets on base more than 90% of the people in baseball. Im not sure he'd be blocking someone more productive in your farm system. The ability he has is not the sort of ability to decline over time. Think this guy:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gwynnto01.shtml

He's a great investment....especially playing Center. As he gets older he can move to one of the corners.

One thing correlates to winning more than OBP, and that's top notch pitching. Signing a Beltran to a shorter deal then allowing cheaper controlled guys within the organization to take his spot rather than signing Choo would allow the Reds to sign a Bailey or Latos to a back loaded contract and afford it.

[Mike Honcho]

One thing correlates to winning more than OBP, and that's top notch pitching. Signing a Beltran to a shorter deal then allowing cheaper controlled guys within the organization to take his spot rather than signing Choo would allow the Reds to sign a Bailey or Latos to a back loaded contract and afford it.

remove Latos from that and you are spot on. Homer Bailey is gone.

[kpresidente]

It's not enough to point out that Choo is a great player. The market knows he's a great player and will price him accordingly. The question is about value and fit. You could say that Robinson Cano is a great player, or whatever top FA hits the market next year, or the year after. They're all great players. The fact that Choo played for the Reds last year doesn't matter, he's a FA now. Given that Boras is his agent, you can probably forget about any kind of discount. Does he fit? I don't see how. We have OF prospects. We need a RH bat. We need a CF much more than a corner OF.

[Mike Honcho]

It's not enough to point out that Choo is a great player. The market knows he's a great player and will price him accordingly. The question is about value and fit. You could say that Robinson Cano is a great player, or whatever top FA hits the market next year, or the year after. They're all great players. The fact that Choo played for the Reds last year doesn't matter, he's a FA now. Given that Boras is his agent, you can probably forget about any kind of discount. Does he fit? I don't see how. We have OF prospects. We need a RH bat. We need a CF much more than a corner OF.

Not to mention Choo leaving brings back a draft pick.

[Lewdog]

Nope, Beltran goes to the Yankees. So you can cross Granderson and Beltran off your list for potential OF free agent signings. Are the Reds going to make any signings of significance this off season?

[malcontent]

Nope, Beltran goes to the Yankees. So you can cross Granderson and Beltran off your list for potential OF free agent signings. Are the Reds going to make any signings of significance this off season?
Does Jason Kubel qualify?

[MoneyInTheBank]

Nope, Beltran goes to the Yankees. So you can cross Granderson and Beltran off your list for potential OF free agent signings. Are the Reds going to make any signings of significance this off season?

I wouldn't hold your breath on the Reds signing someone at $15M annually

[Lewdog]

I wouldn't hold your breath on the Reds signing someone at $15M annually

The Reds are just going to have to get with the times. Mike Napoli just signed a two year $32 million contract to go back to the Red Sox. $15 million a year for a veteran starter isn't going to be cheap.

Pass on Kubel, if anything give Nelson Cruz a shot and put in a clause that if he gets suspended again he has to give back all of his signing bonus and any future earnings if the Reds release him.

[malcontent]

Kubel's #1 comp: Ryan Ludwick.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kubelja01.shtml

[MoneyInTheBank]

The Reds are just going to have to get with the times. Mike Napoli just signed a two year $32 million contract to go back to the Red Sox. $15 million a year for a veteran starter isn't going to be cheap.

Pass on Kubel, if anything give Nelson Cruz a shot and put in a clause that if he gets suspended again he has to give back all of his signing bonus and any future earnings if the Reds release him.

I'm not saying they won't ever sign a free agent for $15M annually or that it won't happen this offseason. However, I would consider it highly unlikely this year.

[Mike Honcho]

The Reds are just going to have to get with the times. Mike Napoli just signed a two year $32 million contract to go back to the Red Sox. $15 million a year for a veteran starter isn't going to be cheap.

Pass on Kubel, if anything give Nelson Cruz a shot and put in a clause that if he gets suspended again he has to give back all of his signing bonus and any future earnings if the Reds release him.

I don't think you can write a contract like that. You can make it a low base and all incentives but you can't demand money back for any reason, be it PEDs, a player's weight, etc.