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Tom Servo
06-04-2014, 02:23 PM
Hamilton CF
Frazier 3B
Phillips 2B
Bruce RF
Mesoraco C
Ludwick LF
Pena 1B
Cozart SS
Cingrani P


(started early cause lineups were posted and I'm on a hot streak starting game threads)

Reds/Flyers Fan
06-04-2014, 02:34 PM
The weather is looking dismal at the moment. What happens to the bobbleheads if tonight is rained out? A lot of people won't be able to make it tomorrow for what would likely be a day-night double-header.

NeilHamburger
06-04-2014, 02:50 PM
I really like Frazier in the 2 hole. Do think Price is willing to move Phillips down to the 5 hole when Votto comes back?

Kc61
06-04-2014, 05:31 PM
A little surprising that Mes is in there. Bear with me.

Tomorrow is Baumgartner. He's a lefty. 12:30 pm game. Not a good idea to rest Mesoraco tomorrow. Tough lefty, Mes destroys lefties. I'm assuming Dev will play all three Giants games, not going to rest him tomorrow. Ok.

But then there's Friday against Cole Hamels, another tough lefty. Cueto game. Looks to me like Price will rest Devin then. Pena catches Cueto. But against Hamels, I'd like Mes in there.

Price could have rested Mes tonight and played him against the lefties Thursday and Friday. Guess not.

Maybe he'll shock us all and play Mes at first base on Friday against Hamels. Nah.

SirFelixCat
06-04-2014, 06:17 PM
Or maybe Mes plays all of them.

villain612
06-04-2014, 06:25 PM
I really like Frazier in the 2 hole. Do think Price is willing to move Phillips down to the 5 hole when Votto comes back?

I'd personally move BP back to 6th when Votto comes back but that's just me.

I'd like to see:

Hamilton
Frazier
Votto
Mesoraco
Bruce
Phillips
Ludwick/Lutz/Schumaker
Cozart

Kc61
06-04-2014, 06:34 PM
I'd personally move BP back to 6th when Votto comes back but that's just me.

I'd like to see:

Hamilton
Frazier
Votto
Mesoraco
Bruce
Phillips
Ludwick/Lutz/Schumaker
Cozart

I agree. We've discussed Frazier as a potential two hitter, over Phillips. This year, he seems to be doing well there. I'd stay with it.

Of course, Price could keep Votto second and go with Hamilton, Votto, Phillips, Bruce, Frazier, Mesoraco.

757690
06-04-2014, 07:11 PM
First pitch strikes are the key to Cingrani's game, in my opinion.

757690
06-04-2014, 07:14 PM
So far, first two batters, first pitch ball = outs. Third batter, first pitch strike = double.

I told you key was first pitch strikes ;)

OldRightHander
06-04-2014, 07:20 PM
News flash. Hamilton can run kind of fast.

757690
06-04-2014, 07:20 PM
Vogelsong clearly has never heard of Billy Hamilton

villain612
06-04-2014, 07:20 PM
Hamilton beats out a grounder to first again.

Wowza

Red Raindog
06-04-2014, 07:24 PM
speed is lethal

BluegrassRedleg
06-04-2014, 07:25 PM
Havoc Hamilton.

villain612
06-04-2014, 07:25 PM
Haha.

The BHam effect.

757690
06-04-2014, 07:25 PM
Did Frazier loose track of the count?

Red Raindog
06-04-2014, 07:26 PM
Please tell Todd the need to protect the plate with 2 strikes

A Reds Fan

villain612
06-04-2014, 07:26 PM
Did Frazier loose track of the count?

I hope so

Red Raindog
06-04-2014, 07:26 PM
I almost feel sorry for these Giants pitchers when BH is on

villain612
06-04-2014, 07:28 PM
I wish there was a stat to measure what Billy Hamilton is doing to Vogelsong right now.

kaldaniels
06-04-2014, 07:30 PM
This inning is mentally draining me. I can't imagine what it is doing to Vogelsong.

_Sir_Charles_
06-04-2014, 07:30 PM
I wish there was a stat to measure what Billy Hamilton is doing to Vogelsong right now.

Typically it's measured by trips to the psychologist.

757690
06-04-2014, 07:30 PM
I wish there was a stat to measure what Billy Hamilton is doing to Vogelsong right now.

If the Reds score this inning, that's the best stat there is.

Red Raindog
06-04-2014, 07:31 PM
Typically it's measured by trips to the psychologist.

or the liquor cabinet

757690
06-04-2014, 07:31 PM
Johnson with a big strikezone do far.

_Sir_Charles_
06-04-2014, 07:32 PM
Johnson with a big strikezone do far.

As long as it's consistent....that's fine.

Red Raindog
06-04-2014, 07:32 PM
He called it a strike two times before you took the third one --- that's on you Jay

757690
06-04-2014, 07:32 PM
Those were all balls, but if he's calling them, you gotta swing at them.

kbrake
06-04-2014, 07:33 PM
This strike zone is really annoying.

Red Raindog
06-04-2014, 07:34 PM
The was a rope to 3B --- better check the glove son

villain612
06-04-2014, 07:34 PM
Crap.

_Sir_Charles_
06-04-2014, 07:34 PM
Crud. Alright boys, you got your heads up for the day....it's a big zone, gotta swing more.

757690
06-04-2014, 07:35 PM
First inning is usually best chance to get to Vogelsong. I hope Cingrani remembers Johnson's strikezone.

powersackers
06-04-2014, 07:36 PM
Ok Jay. Now you know the strike zone. Don't do that again. Please.

50YrRedsFan
06-04-2014, 07:42 PM
The Reds should be penalized for wasting.........wasting runners on base.

50YrRedsFan
06-04-2014, 07:44 PM
Cingrani looks like he throws the ball uphill.

powersackers
06-04-2014, 07:46 PM
Cingrani looks like he throws the ball uphill.

You might want to adjust your tv ;)

Red Raindog
06-04-2014, 07:50 PM
You might want to adjust your tv ;)

or get off of the floor?

Red Raindog
06-04-2014, 07:54 PM
Ah - the patented Cozart lunge for strike 3

TRF
06-04-2014, 07:54 PM
You know, I've been a staunch Cozart defender, but damn

Red Raindog
06-04-2014, 07:56 PM
You know, I've been a staunch Cozart defender, but damn

yup - painful to watch for long stretches buffered by way too short streaks of decent contact

OldRightHander
06-04-2014, 08:05 PM
Another Hamilton special. Let's do something with it this time.

50YrRedsFan
06-04-2014, 08:06 PM
Ah - the patented Cozart lunge for strike 3

Cozart should take one of those miniature souvenir bats up to the plate. Wouldn't make a difference in the outcome of the at bat.

5TimeWSChamps
06-04-2014, 08:06 PM
Billy! Billy! Billy!

WrongVerb
06-04-2014, 08:08 PM
Six errors directly contributed to Hamilton's speed?

Brutus
06-04-2014, 08:08 PM
How many extra bases has Hamilton taken on throwing errors alone this season?

OldRightHander
06-04-2014, 08:08 PM
1-0. Should be 2-0.

Kc61
06-04-2014, 08:09 PM
Frazier homers, too bad BH got thrown out.

Reds lead.

Mutaman
06-04-2014, 08:09 PM
Cozart should take one of those miniature souvenir bats up to the plate. Wouldn't make a difference in the outcome of the at bat.

Anybody remember The King and his Court?

RedTeamGo!
06-04-2014, 08:09 PM
Attempting to steal 3rd is just insane to me.

Brutus
06-04-2014, 08:10 PM
It's the Hamilton torment that caused the homer. Voglesong was psychologically spent :)

RedsBrick
06-04-2014, 08:10 PM
Did BH attempt on is own or was that called?

TRF
06-04-2014, 08:11 PM
I love seeing him take the extra base. I love steals of 2B, but third? He can score from 2b pretty much on anything

50YrRedsFan
06-04-2014, 08:12 PM
My lineup for tomorrow:
Hamilton
Frazier
Mesoraco
Hamilton
Frazier
Mesoraco
Hamilton
Mesoraco
Leake

RedTeamGo!
06-04-2014, 08:12 PM
Yeah that was really dumb, but at least we got one

'69
06-04-2014, 08:13 PM
No idea if called but please never again with 0 outs.

WrongVerb
06-04-2014, 08:13 PM
I love seeing him take the extra base. I love steals of 2B, but third? He can score from 2b pretty much on anything

Definitely a rookie mistake on that.

_Sir_Charles_
06-04-2014, 08:14 PM
Bruuuuuuce!

OldRightHander
06-04-2014, 08:14 PM
Nice hitting by BP and Bruce there.

Brutus
06-04-2014, 08:15 PM
I don't get the criticism of him stealing third. It's absolutely, positively worth the attempt.

By getting him to third, you set up the possibility of a run on almost anything... passed ball, sac fly, ground ball on the infield, etc. I am 100 percent on board with trying to steal him. This isn't any ordinary runner. He's going to be safe frequently enough to make it worth the risk of getting him over to third.

RedsBrick
06-04-2014, 08:15 PM
No idea if called but please never again with 0 outs.

Agree. Don't see a need to force the issue at that point. Let the inning develop a bit.

5TimeWSChamps
06-04-2014, 08:15 PM
Bout time we stopped treating Vogelsong like Cy Young.

RedTeamGo!
06-04-2014, 08:19 PM
I don't get the criticism of him stealing third. It's absolutely, positively worth the attempt.

By getting him to third, you set up the possibility of a run on almost anything... passed ball, sac fly, ground ball on the infield, etc. I am 100 percent on board with trying to steal him. This isn't any ordinary runner. He's going to be safe frequently enough to make it worth the risk of getting him over to third.

Is it frequent enough though? He has only been successful 77% of the time this year. That's pretty crappy.

dubc47834
06-04-2014, 08:21 PM
Attempting to steal 3rd is just insane to me.

Always...or just in that situation?

Kc61
06-04-2014, 08:22 PM
It's annoying that Hamilton was caught stealing, but it's not a bad play. If you're going to try and get a man to third, you might as well do it with no outs. That way, two guys can get the run home with an out.

Price knows he doesn't have a great offense, he's being aggressive. No problem with it most of the time.

The Reds are starting to hit some home runs which is great news.

_Sir_Charles_
06-04-2014, 08:22 PM
I'm soooooooo sick of Thom's insistence on Jim Day doing his "guy" impression. Let. It. Go.

Brutus
06-04-2014, 08:22 PM
For the record, chance that a run will score based on Tango's run matrix:

63.7% chance w/ runner @2B and no outs
17.2% chance w/ no one on and one out
85.3% chance w/ runner @3B and no outs

Say there's an 80 percent chance of a successful steal attempt:

.853*.80 = 68.2% chance of scoring a run (better than the previous 63.7% chance)

If you believe he'd be successful 85% of the time, then the odds increase to 72.5%

So if you play the percentages, the Reds increased their chance of scoring slightly with the attempt

kaldaniels
06-04-2014, 08:23 PM
Cingrani being pretty pitch efficient tonight, at least for him.

50YrRedsFan
06-04-2014, 08:23 PM
Cingrani just can't seem to get that breaking ball over.......he can't survive on 1 pitch.

Or can he?

_Sir_Charles_
06-04-2014, 08:24 PM
The beauty of Hamilton on the bases is that you don't know when he's going to go and in what situation. He's fearless on the basepaths. That will get tempered with more experience, but for now, you take the good with the bad...odds are the good will outweigh the bad. The worst thing you can do is put a leash on him. Let him loose.

Brutus
06-04-2014, 08:24 PM
Is it frequent enough though? He has only been successful 77% of the time this year. That's pretty crappy.

Crappy? That's above average. The break-even mark is about 66%.

Furthermore, his career percentage at the MLB level is 83.3%.

toledodan
06-04-2014, 08:25 PM
Is it frequent enough though? He has only been successful 77% of the time this year. That's pretty crappy.

Alot of the caught stealings were very early in the season. It's been awhile since he's been caught. I honestly think once he gets better with his understanding of his leads it will be scary. Also the pitcher needs to be worried that Billy will steal in any situation.

Kc61
06-04-2014, 08:28 PM
Ludwick makes some decent plays in LF due to his sheer size. He stretches out his body frequently to catch high drives, and to reach down for sinking drives. Not a top notch defensive player, but his height helps him.

RedTeamGo!
06-04-2014, 08:29 PM
Crappy? That's above average. The break-even mark is about 66%.

Furthermore, his career percentage at the MLB level is 83.3%.

They just put the top 5 in stolen bases up on mlb tonight, he was the only player under 82%, Gordon is at like 96%.

66% is mlb average. Do you expect the fastest baseball player in history to be slightly above average? I don't, I expect him to be the best or one of the best.

I love what Bham brings to the table, but he needs to get that % way up.

50YrRedsFan
06-04-2014, 08:29 PM
Crappy? That's above average. The break-even mark is about 66%.

Furthermore, his career percentage at the MLB level is 83.3%.

Crappy? Hamilton will have more steals by the All Star break than the entire Reds team all of last year.

RedsBrick
06-04-2014, 08:29 PM
If Hamilton's in the 7 hole...let him run with abandon, take those chances to get to third with no one out. But in the lead-off spot, be a little less aggressive on the attempt to third...give the guys behind you a chance to bring you around...because as already mentioned, from 2nd he can practically walk in on a hit and can tag and get to third many times on a fly to the outfield.

RedTeamGo!
06-04-2014, 08:31 PM
For the record, chance that a run will score based on Tango's run matrix:

63.7% chance w/ runner @2B and no outs
17.2% chance w/ no one on and one out
85.3% chance w/ runner @3B and no outs

Say there's an 80 percent chance of a successful steal attempt:

.853*.80 = 68.2% chance of scoring a run (better than the previous 63.7% chance)

If you believe he'd be successful 85% of the time, then the odds increase to 72.5%

So if you play the percentages, the Reds increased their chance of scoring slightly with the attempt

I think Billy's thought process was more like this:

".......Aaaaaand GO!"

Brutus
06-04-2014, 08:31 PM
They just put the top 5 in stolen bases up on mlb tonight, he was the only player under 82%, Gordon is at like 96%.

66% is mlb average. Do you expect the fastest baseball player in history to be slightly above average? I don't, I expect him to be the best or one of the best.

I love what Bham brings to the table, but he needs to get that % way up.

Gordon isn't going to sustain a 96 percent rate.

And like I said, Hamilton's career rate is 83.3%. Do you know Gordon's career rate? 81.9%

50YrRedsFan
06-04-2014, 08:31 PM
What will Cozout do here? A pop out to the right side......Well, he made contact anyway.

'69
06-04-2014, 08:31 PM
Sometimes Cingrani looks like an insane leprechaun when he scowls. In fact, I guarantee Homer has a better personality. :devil:

Hey, nice bloop single, Tony.

kaldaniels
06-04-2014, 08:32 PM
The Reds are starting to hit some home runs which is great news.

It seems come each June, those left field seats begin to magnetically pull balls into them.

RedTeamGo!
06-04-2014, 08:32 PM
Always...or just in that situation?

Standing on 2nd with no outs and the meat of the lineup coming up? Stay at 2nd.

'69
06-04-2014, 08:33 PM
I'm soooooooo sick of Thom's insistence on Jim Day doing his "guy" impression. Let. It. Go.

Bet JD is more sick of it, lol.

dubc47834
06-04-2014, 08:34 PM
BHam....niiiiiiiiice

kaldaniels
06-04-2014, 08:34 PM
Thom pronounced Fernandez "Feirnandez".

Drink.

RedTeamGo!
06-04-2014, 08:34 PM
Gordon isn't going to sustain a 96 percent rate.

And like I said, Hamilton's career rate is 83.3%. Do you know Gordon's career rate? 81.9%

Great, hopefully he gets it closer to 85 this year, 77 is not good enough for the fastest player in the history of baseball.

kaldaniels
06-04-2014, 08:36 PM
Cardinal-like wear on Vogelsong tonight. I like it.

'69
06-04-2014, 08:36 PM
Thom pronounced Fernandez "Feirnandez".

Drink.

Hate when he says "thoid" for third, too.

Brutus
06-04-2014, 08:37 PM
Great, hopefully he gets it closer to 85 this year, 77 is not good enough for the fastest player in the history of baseball.

I don't get this line of thinking. Even 80 percent rate attempting 100 bags a year? That's a huge impact. When you're able to make that many attempts, you are doing a serious amount of damage even with an 80% success rate.

- - - Updated - - -

Frazier is going back to his bad habit of chasing those sliders down and away.

Kc61
06-04-2014, 08:37 PM
It seems come each June, those left field seats begin to magnetically pull balls into them.

Now all the Reds need are magnets for the road games.

Billy is making better contact these days, he's still a bit away, but at some point he is going to be a force.

Once pitchers think he can hit, we'll see a few more walks, and then he'll drive all of MLB crazy.

RedTeamGo!
06-04-2014, 08:39 PM
I don't get this line of thinking. Even 80 percent rate attempting 100 bags a year? That's a huge impact. When you're able to make that many attempts, you are doing a serious amount of damage even with an 80% success rate.

- - - Updated - - -

Frazier is going back to his bad habit of chasing those sliders down and away.

80% stealing second, I'm fine with. 80% stealing third with no outs, I'm not ok with.

Kc61
06-04-2014, 08:39 PM
Frazier's plate discipline has improved from last year. Making a big difference.

Fooled on a change up there for strike three.

WrongVerb
06-04-2014, 08:41 PM
Bet JD is more sick of it, lol.

Over the phone, if I drop my voice a register, I sound a lot like Barry White. My boss (male) gets a huge kick out of it and calls for it every time we're on a conference call. So tired of it, but whatever, it's the boss.

Brutus
06-04-2014, 08:41 PM
80% stealing second, I'm fine with. 80% stealing third with no outs, I'm not ok with.

You should be OK with it. Like I showed you, an 80 percent success rate stealing third increases the overall chance of scoring a run by 5%. It's a net gain.

'69
06-04-2014, 08:41 PM
Third is harder to steal right? Say that rate is 50%*. A runner on 2nd with no outs scoring has a higher percentage.

*goes to look it up

Kc61
06-04-2014, 08:43 PM
Keep in mind a lot of managers really want the first run in a game.

First inning, Billy stood his ground at second and the Reds didn't score.

So this time, scoreless game, Price went for the man on third.

It won't happen much, not a reason for concern.

TRF
06-04-2014, 08:45 PM
Kc61, that logic works for me.

_Sir_Charles_
06-04-2014, 08:45 PM
KKKKK

TRF
06-04-2014, 08:46 PM
Well... Tapatalk

RedTeamGo!
06-04-2014, 08:46 PM
You should be OK with it. Like I showed you, an 80 percent success rate stealing third increases the overall chance of scoring a run by 5%. It's a net gain.

Does your analysis include how the runner got to third? Hamilton scores from 2nd on a base hit.

Brutus
06-04-2014, 08:46 PM
Third is harder to steal right? Say that rate is 50%*. A runner on 2nd with no outs scoring has a higher percentage.

*goes to look it up

Believe it or not, there's actually little difference. In fact, statistically, the last few years stealing third has actually been easier.

Last year in the NL, the success rate was 71.3% stealing second.

The success rate stealing third was 76.4%.

It's said that it's actually easier to steal third because pitchers aren't able to hold runners on quite as easily and they're less likely to pay attention to them.

_Sir_Charles_
06-04-2014, 08:47 PM
Kc61, that logic works for me.

What is this "logic" you speak of? Unfamiliar with the concept. :)

- - - Updated - - -

KKKKKK

Brutus
06-04-2014, 08:49 PM
Does your analysis include how the runner got to third? Hamilton scores from 2nd on a base hit.

Why does it matter how he got there? The point is if you do probability of the odds of him stealing third multiplied by the odds of him scoring if he's on third with zero outs, it actually increases the overall probability of scoring than if he'd just stayed on second with no outs.

RedTeamGo!
06-04-2014, 08:52 PM
It matters because he didn't get there.

kaldaniels
06-04-2014, 08:54 PM
I never want to see Pagan call time again.

Kc61
06-04-2014, 08:55 PM
Cingrani now in some trouble.

Gave up a double to the pitcher and walked Pagan, both on full counts.

Given that Tony has had some trouble recently, hopefully he makes it through six innings. Reds still up 2-0, two outs, fifth.

Pence up, 0-1 count.

0-2 on Pence who is really aggressive at the plate.

Tadasimha
06-04-2014, 08:57 PM
show 'em your mean face, tony!

YES!

'69
06-04-2014, 08:57 PM
Believe it or not, there's actually little difference. In fact, statistically, the last few years stealing third has actually been easier.

Last year in the NL, the success rate was 71.3% stealing second.

The success rate stealing third was 76.4%.

It's said that it's actually easier to steal third because pitchers aren't able to hold runners on quite as easily and they're less likely to pay attention to them.

Yep, I stand corrected.

Kc61
06-04-2014, 08:57 PM
Great slow curve by Cingrani ends inning.

_Sir_Charles_
06-04-2014, 08:57 PM
KKKKKKK

kaldaniels
06-04-2014, 08:58 PM
Take a picture. Cingrani K's Pence on off speed.

toledodan
06-04-2014, 09:01 PM
Billy is getting thrown out because of bad jumps not because the catcher is gunning him down. With more mlb experience I think you will see that improve.

Brutus
06-04-2014, 09:01 PM
It matters because he didn't get there.

It's playing percentages, not guaranteeing results.

Judging only based on whether something works is very myopic.

TRF
06-04-2014, 09:02 PM
Believe it or not, there's actually little difference. In fact, statistically, the last few years stealing third has actually been easier.

Last year in the NL, the success rate was 71.3% stealing second.

The success rate stealing third was 76.4%.

It's said that it's actually easier to steal third because pitchers aren't able to hold runners on quite as easily and they're less likely to pay attention to them.

But doesn't attempts play a part? A lot of guys think they can steal and go for 2b, most balk at trying 3b

Brutus
06-04-2014, 09:03 PM
I never want to see Pagan call time again.

Unless it's with the Reds. He'd be a perfect presence in this lineup, wouldn't he?

_Sir_Charles_
06-04-2014, 09:03 PM
Spot on Welsh. "Kind of a wimpy AB there"

'69
06-04-2014, 09:03 PM
Kind of a wimpy AB there by Bruce

villain612
06-04-2014, 09:04 PM
That same pitch was a strike in the 1st inning too Jay.

_Sir_Charles_
06-04-2014, 09:04 PM
Well, that was quick.

kaldaniels
06-04-2014, 09:06 PM
Unless it's with the Reds. He'd be a perfect presence in this lineup, wouldn't he?

After the 2012 playoffs, I advocated going after him. He's a gamer having a nice bounceback year.

'69
06-04-2014, 09:06 PM
But doesn't attempts play a part? A lot of guys think they can steal and go for 2b, most balk at trying 3b

From 2010

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=5125738

'69
06-04-2014, 09:07 PM
RIP Don Zimmer. First I've heard.

_Sir_Charles_
06-04-2014, 09:07 PM
RIP Don Zimmer. :(

Brutus
06-04-2014, 09:08 PM
But doesn't attempts play a part? A lot of guys think they can steal and go for 2b, most balk at trying 3b

It's certainly a factor, but I think that the ultimate point, and something clubs seem to be recognizing, is that it's actually not much more difficult to steal third. The percentages certainly aren't any worse. Slowly you're seeing more attempts, too.

It's easier for the catcher to make a good throw, but it's also harder to hold a runner close to the bag. So it essentially cancels each other out.

gilpdawg
06-04-2014, 09:09 PM
Love Zim. One of my favorite baseball men personality wise. RIP

kaldaniels
06-04-2014, 09:09 PM
RIP Zimmer

http://sineilleifer.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/1154.jpg?w=960

OldRightHander
06-04-2014, 09:09 PM
A baseball legend.

'69
06-04-2014, 09:09 PM
Rats.

Morse homers, 2-1 Reds

Ironman92
06-04-2014, 09:10 PM
Just made it in....Billy is wearing out the Giants pitchers...guarantee they'd admit it. What was dumb was not stealing 3rd with no outs, but getting a poor jump and going anyways.

PepperJack
06-04-2014, 09:11 PM
Louisville Bats @LouisvilleBats · 2m
Latos appears to have irritated something -- we're not going try and speculate. He throws his glove in the dugout and he's done after 5 IP


Louisville Bats @LouisvilleBats · 9s
We don't know what it was but after a mound visit from Riggleman and Ted Power, Latos is done for the night


Louisville Bats @LouisvilleBats · 39s
Final line on Latos: 5 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 3 Ks. He threw 67 pitches, 44 for strikes before exiting with an inconclusive injury

Brutus
06-04-2014, 09:11 PM
Ugh. Hopefully it's nothing.

OldRightHander
06-04-2014, 09:12 PM
@#%$!!

Brutus
06-04-2014, 09:12 PM
Well, that escalated quickly.

BluegrassRedleg
06-04-2014, 09:13 PM
Holy (suddenly) horrific location, Batman.

krm1580
06-04-2014, 09:13 PM
Nothing like getting torched by a pair of guys hitting a combined .150

'69
06-04-2014, 09:13 PM
Flat 89mph will get crushed.

villain612
06-04-2014, 09:14 PM
Anybody wanna go to talk to him??

Brutus
06-04-2014, 09:14 PM
This is it. Give him one more batter, only because it's the pitcher's slot, and call it a day.

Roy Tucker
06-04-2014, 09:16 PM
Cingrani's wheels sure fell off quick.

757690
06-04-2014, 09:16 PM
Cingrani's looking more and more like a good candidate for the bullpen. Starters have to pitch deep into games.

gilpdawg
06-04-2014, 09:16 PM
Ugh. Hopefully it's nothing.

Calf cramp. Removed as a precaution per Dallas on Twitter.

Reds Freak
06-04-2014, 09:17 PM
Boy, a lot of disappointing news in the last page of this game thread.

Hillsdale87
06-04-2014, 09:17 PM
Congrani has been hit pretty hard all game and it caught up to him this inning. He looked better today, but I think his inability to consistently throw strikes with a non-fastball is catching up to him after players have seen him a few times

gilpdawg
06-04-2014, 09:17 PM
Now Day is citing that same report.

Playadlc
06-04-2014, 09:17 PM
Calf cramp. Removed as a precaution per Dallas on Twitter.

Thank God.

kaldaniels
06-04-2014, 09:17 PM
Day the admirable journalist he is, cites Dallas Latos twitter account.

Mutaman
06-04-2014, 09:18 PM
I switch over here from the Ranger game and in less than a minute I find out Don Zimmer has passed away, something happened to latos, and Cingrani just gave up 3 runs.

Kc61
06-04-2014, 09:19 PM
As that inning started, we're wondering how the Reds can accomodate all those starting pitchers.

Now Cingrani couldn't go six and Latos got pulled due to injury.

Probably nothing, glad Tony threw so well, but it shows you never have too much pitching.

Meanwhile, it looked like Cingrani was gassed, too bad he stayed out there so long. Not blaming anyone, but he was a tired pitcher that inning. Still probably coming back from injury, building up innings.

'69
06-04-2014, 09:19 PM
"Journalist" is a little strong...;)

miamiredskin
06-04-2014, 09:20 PM
I switch over here from the Ranger game and in less than a minute I find out Don Zimmer has passed away, something happened to latos, and Cingrani just gave up 3 runs.

which bothers you more?

villain612
06-04-2014, 09:20 PM
Day the admirable journalist he is, cites Dallas Latos twitter account.

John Fay is retweeting it too.

kaldaniels
06-04-2014, 09:21 PM
There's a fine line between striking out 10 plus per 9 innings and serving up meatballs to be swatted over the fence.

Cingrani needs to find it and I think he can.

kaldaniels
06-04-2014, 09:22 PM
John Fay is retweeting it too.

In all seriousness, Day got that to the air rather fast. I appreciate that.

miamiredskin
06-04-2014, 09:23 PM
Ludwick is a liability.

kaldaniels
06-04-2014, 09:23 PM
Thom beating the hell out of Frazier. We haven't heard the last of it.

Tom Servo
06-04-2014, 09:24 PM
Thom beating the hell out of Frazier. We haven't heard the last of it.
In Thom's eyes there is little excuse for not batting 1.000.

_Sir_Charles_
06-04-2014, 09:26 PM
In Thom's eyes there is little excuse for not batting 1.000.

Well, to be fair, Thom does know what he's talking about. After playing in the majors for as long as he did and hitting for such a good average, he's earned the right to.....*snicker* Sorry, I can't anymore. :O)

Mutaman
06-04-2014, 09:26 PM
which bothers you more?

The rangers giving up a goal when they had a 2-0 lead. Wish I had a nickle for everytime over the years wher the Rangers scored and then immediatly gave up a goal.

Seriously, one of my first childhood memories is seeing Zimmer get hit in the head on a Game of the week. I think it happened to him twice. Not a man who was afraid to speak his mind and I always liked that. That "fight" between him and Pedro is a classic.

dubc47834
06-04-2014, 09:27 PM
Calf cramp. Removed as a precaution per Dallas on Twitter.

Maybe he'll need another start...long enough to figure out who goes to the pen...Simon or Cingrani!

50YrRedsFan
06-04-2014, 09:27 PM
Cozout..ready for this.......pops out to the right side. AGAIN. A waste of a position in the batting order.

Kc61
06-04-2014, 09:27 PM
In Thom's eyes there is little excuse for not batting 1.000.

Actually, Thom and Chris have recapped many different failures of the Reds tonight, but somehow aren't mentioning Hamilton being thrown out at third.

I mean, if you want to point to one play, it was that. It's not a bad play IMO, but when your man on second is caught stealing with no outs, it hurts, particularly since he would have scored.

Mutaman
06-04-2014, 09:28 PM
Not a big twitter guy but I wandered over to Dallas'. Pretty entertaining.

Roy Tucker
06-04-2014, 09:30 PM
Pence's pants are above his knees.

Kc61
06-04-2014, 09:30 PM
So now man on second and Ondrusek gets to pitch to Posey. With a rested bullpen.

Bryan, just want to fast forward to tomorrow afternoon?

Logan proving me wrong so far, 1-2 count to Posey.

malcontent
06-04-2014, 09:31 PM
Ludwick is a liability.
What does that make Cozart?

757690
06-04-2014, 09:31 PM
The rangers giving up a goal when they had a 2-0 lead. Wish I had a nickle for everytime over the years wher the Rangers scored and then immediatly gave up a goal.

Homer Bailey is the Rangers goalie?

50YrRedsFan
06-04-2014, 09:31 PM
Pence's pants are above his knees.

I'm glad they're not 'down' to his knees:lol:

dubc47834
06-04-2014, 09:32 PM
Pence's pants are above his knees.

Better than lookin like a fool....with his pants on the ground!!! Sorry had to do it!

Mutaman
06-04-2014, 09:32 PM
Question: Speaking of low hitting shortstops, Zimmer was the shortstop fo the 59 World Champion Dodgers but was traded after the season. Why was he traded?

757690
06-04-2014, 09:32 PM
Pence's pants are above his knees.

We got trouble... trouble... right here in River City.

_Sir_Charles_
06-04-2014, 09:32 PM
I'm glad they're not 'down' to his knees:lol:

Yep. Nobody wants to see Underpants' underpants.

Mutaman
06-04-2014, 09:34 PM
Homer Bailey is the Rangers goalie?

King Homer!

dubc47834
06-04-2014, 09:34 PM
Nice job Logan!

Kc61
06-04-2014, 09:34 PM
Logan got out of it, nice pitching.

50YrRedsFan
06-04-2014, 09:34 PM
Why is Price letting Ondrusek pitch to the Panda?

_Sir_Charles_
06-04-2014, 09:35 PM
Good job Logan. I just wish somebody would remind the battery that Pence likes those pitches letter high.

dubc47834
06-04-2014, 09:35 PM
Why is Price letting Ondrusek pitch to the Panda?

Because he got. Him out

kaldaniels
06-04-2014, 09:36 PM
Question: Speaking of low hitting shortstops, Zimmer was the shortstop fo the 59 World Champion Dodgers but was traded after the season. Why was he traded?

Someone turn on the westofyou signal!

_Sir_Charles_
06-04-2014, 09:37 PM
Well, it got pointed out last night when both Hoover and Homer got their ERA's under 5.00...it's only fair that Logan just did the same. Baby steps. The whole pen is slowly righting the ship.

Roy Tucker
06-04-2014, 09:37 PM
Heisey will homer.

'69
06-04-2014, 09:37 PM
Question: Speaking of low hitting shortstops, Zimmer was the shortstop fo the 59 World Champion Dodgers but was traded after the season. Why was he traded?

Good question.

Paging WoY.

Mutaman
06-04-2014, 09:38 PM
Someone turn on the westofyou signal!

Dodgers had this young shortstop named Wills.

Roy Tucker
06-04-2014, 09:38 PM
Or not.

_Sir_Charles_
06-04-2014, 09:38 PM
Someone turn on the westofyou signal!

What would that signal look like? A pair of baggy cotton pants? A cane or a walker? Corncob pipe? :O)

malcontent
06-04-2014, 09:38 PM
Heisey????

I guess Price doesn't do match-ups.

villain612
06-04-2014, 09:39 PM
Heisey and Cozart should have a pop up derby and see who wins.

_Sir_Charles_
06-04-2014, 09:39 PM
Heisey and Cozart should have a pop up derby and see who wins.

Can Janish be the judge? :O)

miamiredskin
06-04-2014, 09:40 PM
What does that make Cozart?

ever heard of "double indemnity?"

Ironman92
06-04-2014, 09:40 PM
Heisey and Cozart should have a pop up derby and see who wins.

Winner faces Paul Janish

Ironman92
06-04-2014, 09:40 PM
According to ELIAS Hunter Pence last blinked in April of 2010

Big Klu
06-04-2014, 09:41 PM
Heisey????

Not sure I understand using Heisey against a RHP when the Reds have Schumaker, Lutz, and Bernadina from the left side.

malcontent
06-04-2014, 09:42 PM
Why not Schumaker or Lutz? Lutz was on deck before.

Brutus
06-04-2014, 09:43 PM
Not sure I understand using Heisey against a RHP when the Reds have Schumaker, Lutz and Bernadina from the left side.


Why not Schumaker or Lutz? Lutz was on deck before.

Bochy would have countered with a left-handed pitcher, most likely. He probably felt more comfortable with Heisey against a RHP than either of those guys against a LHP.

dubc47834
06-04-2014, 09:43 PM
Not sure I understand using Heisey against a RHP when the Reds have Schumaker, Lutz and Bernadina from the left side.

Without looking up the stats, I'm pretty sure he hits lefties better than righties

Kc61
06-04-2014, 09:44 PM
Why not Schumaker or Lutz? Lutz was on deck before.

Looking for the long ball. Heisey had that home run streak as a pinch hitter.

It was about three years ago, but it happened.

This is a really frustrating game. Guy thrown out stealing followed by a homer. Cingrani just left in a bit too long. C'mon Frazier.

- - - Updated - - -


Without looking up the stats, I'm pretty sure he hits lefties better than righties

Heisey used to hit righties better. Last two years, he hit lefties much better. This year he's not hit lefties, I think, but small sample.

miamiredskin
06-04-2014, 09:45 PM
Price is not the best manager in the league. Which makes sense because all the others have more experience.

Ironman92
06-04-2014, 09:45 PM
The Reds coming back and winning this would show me they are ready to make a legitimate push.

kaldaniels
06-04-2014, 09:46 PM
Total speculation but it looked like Billy had no scouting report on Gutierrez or had never seen him before (on video).

Brutus
06-04-2014, 09:46 PM
For his career:

Heisey OPS vs. RHP .755
Heisey OPS vs. LHP .687

50YrRedsFan
06-04-2014, 09:46 PM
The Reds coming back and winning this would show me they are ready to make a legitimate push.

And if they don't?

dubc47834
06-04-2014, 09:47 PM
The Reds coming back and winning this would show me they are ready to make a legitimate push.

And if they didn't.........season over?

_Sir_Charles_
06-04-2014, 09:48 PM
I wouldn't object to a big run scoring inning from the Reds bats. Not even a little bit. I'd be totally fine with it.

- - - Updated - - -

LeCure in.

malcontent
06-04-2014, 09:49 PM
And if they don't?
Circling the drain.

miamiredskin
06-04-2014, 09:49 PM
And if they don't?

hard for me to believe there is anybody who doesn't see this season as over on September 28.
anything else is unexpected gravy at this point.

50YrRedsFan
06-04-2014, 09:50 PM
Reds offense dead again after scoring early.

villain612
06-04-2014, 09:50 PM
And if they don't?

http://www.lovethispic.com/uploaded_images/48499-A-Walk-On-The-Ledge.gif

Big Klu
06-04-2014, 09:51 PM
Bochy would have countered with a left-handed pitcher, most likely. He probably felt more comfortable with Heisey against a RHP than either of those guys against a LHP.

Use Lutz to PH for Ondrusek. If Bochy counters with a LHP, send Heisey up to PH for Lutz.

Tony Cloninger
06-04-2014, 09:52 PM
As that inning started, we're wondering how the Reds can accomodate all those starting pitchers.

Now Cingrani couldn't go six and Latos got pulled due to injury.

Probably nothing, glad Tony threw so well, but it shows you never have too much pitching.

Meanwhile, it looked like Cingrani was gassed, too bad he stayed out there so long. Not blaming anyone, but he was a tired pitcher that inning. Still probably coming back from injury, building up innings.


The guy has trouble going 6, but lately it is just going 5 that is an issue.

High amount of SO, but also walks and giving up a few homers per game. Bad recipe.

Mutaman
06-04-2014, 09:53 PM
hard for me to believe there is anybody who doesn't see this season as over on September 28.
anything else is unexpected gravy at this point.

Why? Its not like the Brewers are the 27 Yankees.Still a long way to go.

Kc61
06-04-2014, 09:53 PM
2013 Heisey .810 OPS against lefties. .622 against righties.
2012 Heisey .827 OPS against lefties. .680 against righties.

Heisey's lifetime stats always need to be broken down because the first two seasons and the last two seasons have been very different.

This year he's below .700 both ways, a bit better against righties. Small samples.

757690
06-04-2014, 09:53 PM
Use Lutz to PH for Ondrusek. If Bochy counters with a LHP, send Heisey up to PH for Lutz.

That's how Sparky did it, time after time.

kaldaniels
06-04-2014, 09:53 PM
If Sam LeCure throws a first pitch strike to Perez it would show me the Reds are ready to be legitimate playoff contenders.

miamiredskin
06-04-2014, 09:54 PM
Why? Its not like the Brewers are the 27 Yankees.Still a long way to go.


they suck. you have to win some games to make the post-season. no matter who is in front of you.

_Sir_Charles_
06-04-2014, 09:56 PM
LOL. The Padres beat the Pirates tonight 3-2. The Pads had ONE HIT (a bunt single in the first).....and NINE walks. :O)

I haven't looked yet, but you've got to think it was Volquez pitching, right? :O)

~edit~ Nope. Liriano.

kaldaniels
06-04-2014, 09:56 PM
We are sooo overdue for a Bruce shot to the Sundeck.

Roy Tucker
06-04-2014, 09:57 PM
Home plate ump isn't consistent on the low corners.

Kc61
06-04-2014, 09:57 PM
The answer to who replaces Latos is obvious: both.

Simon works five innings, Cingrani four -- every fifth day.

Big Klu
06-04-2014, 09:58 PM
That's how Sparky did it, time after time.

Of course, it is easier to do that if you have seven position players on the bench instead of only five.


But I still would have done it.

BluegrassRedleg
06-04-2014, 09:58 PM
Vogelsong came into tonight with 51 Ks. Nine tonight. :(

Reds Freak
06-04-2014, 09:58 PM
It's amazing this day in age when you hardly see a right-hander out of any team's bullpen throwing less than 95 and yet Lecure has been one of the Reds most reliable relievers the last five years with a fastball that barely touches 90.

dubc47834
06-04-2014, 09:58 PM
BP bomb?

Kc61
06-04-2014, 09:58 PM
This is the last batter for this guy, then Giants will go lefty/righty depending on the hitter.

Tony Cloninger
06-04-2014, 09:58 PM
Use Lutz to PH for Ondrusek. If Bochy counters with a LHP, send Heisey up to PH for Lutz.

He has a better bench to use. Like PH for Cozart anytime after the 7th or 8th innings .....I mean Cozart should be treated like Concepcion was early in his career and Darrell Chaney was. PH for them and PH for them often.

villain612
06-04-2014, 09:59 PM
Thank you baseball gods.

Tony Cloninger
06-04-2014, 09:59 PM
If Sam LeCure throws a first pitch strike to Perez it would show me the Reds are ready to be legitimate playoff contenders.

If Price PH for Cozart the next time his turn comes up...it will show me that Price is ready to be a big league manager and lead this team to the playoffs.

dubc47834
06-04-2014, 10:00 PM
BP bomb?

An F bomb!!!

Brutus
06-04-2014, 10:00 PM
Use Lutz to PH for Ondrusek. If Bochy counters with a LHP, send Heisey up to PH for Lutz.

I honestly do not believe in wasting a PH in a regular season game such as this. If the stakes are really high in the playoffs, I get that. But there's simply not enough of a benefit of doing what you suggest, especially since statistically, Heisey actually hits RHP better than he does LHP.

- - - Updated - - -


2013 Heisey .810 OPS against lefties. .622 against righties.
2012 Heisey .827 OPS against lefties. .680 against righties.

Heisey's lifetime stats always need to be broken down because the first two seasons and the last two seasons have been very different.

This year he's below .700 both ways, a bit better against righties. Small samples.

It's not very prudent to look at single season samples when larger, career samples are more telling.

dubc47834
06-04-2014, 10:01 PM
If Price PH for Cozart the next time his turn comes up...it will show me that Price is ready to be a big league manager and lead this team to the playoffs.

uuuuuuuuummmmmmmm, he is a bg league manager...right?

Roy Tucker
06-04-2014, 10:01 PM
Thank you baseball gods.

Specifically, the god of bad hops.

Now sacrificing a beer to the god of long ball.

50YrRedsFan
06-04-2014, 10:01 PM
He has a better bench to use. Like PH for Cozart anytime after the 7th or 8th innings .....I mean Cozart should be treated like Concepcion was early in his career and Darrell Chaney was. PH for them and PH for them often.

Cozout should be pinch hit for in his 1st AB each game.

Playadlc
06-04-2014, 10:01 PM
If Crawford didn't hesitate after bobbling he may have had a shot at Phillips.

malcontent
06-04-2014, 10:01 PM
If Sam LeCure throws a first pitch strike to Perez it would show me the Reds are ready to be legitimate playoff contenders.
Jocketty trading for Didi Gregorius after this game would convince me.

_Sir_Charles_
06-04-2014, 10:02 PM
Specifically, the god of bad hops.

Now sacrificing a beer to the god of long ball.

Jobu prefers rum.

Ironman92
06-04-2014, 10:03 PM
And if they don't?

I'll have to wait and see more goodness I suppose.

RedWilly
06-04-2014, 10:03 PM
Thank you baseball gods.

Only if we score. Otherwise it's "Why do you tease us????"

Tom Servo
06-04-2014, 10:03 PM
Remember when Bruce seemed to be reversing his fortunes against lefties?

Playadlc
06-04-2014, 10:03 PM
Just tough pitches there.

malcontent
06-04-2014, 10:03 PM
Bruce with his third K.

Roy Tucker
06-04-2014, 10:04 PM
Bochy has the roster and knows how to manage. I hate it. Reds are always one move behind.

Kc61
06-04-2014, 10:04 PM
I honestly do not believe in wasting a PH in a regular season game such as this. If the stakes are really high in the playoffs, I get that. But there's simply not enough of a benefit of doing what you suggest, especially since statistically, Heisey actually hits RHP better than he does LHP.

- - - Updated - - -



It's not very prudent to look at single season samples when larger, career samples are more telling.

Not in this case. Heisey's only played four years. The first two had a certain influence on these splits. The last two years had the opposite influence.

One could argue career stats.

I would argue that the more recent two seasons are a better prediction of what's likely to happen right now.

Ironman92
06-04-2014, 10:04 PM
Terrible at bat by Bruce....yes it's certainly a tough matchup but down 0-2 and he's trying to pull an outside pitch?

miamiredskin
06-04-2014, 10:04 PM
Specifically, the god of bad hops.

Now sacrificing a beer to the god of long ball.

haha

Tony Cloninger
06-04-2014, 10:04 PM
Cozout should be pinch hit for in his 1st AB each game.

Just like Driessen did for Vuckovich in that game in LA back in 1975.

50YrRedsFan
06-04-2014, 10:04 PM
Bruce needs to sit......he's not getting it done. Makes no difference how much $$ he makes.

NeilHamburger
06-04-2014, 10:05 PM
Bruce is pulling off the ball. When you do that against a lefty that is what happens.

Ironman92
06-04-2014, 10:05 PM
Dang...this guy has some numbers

Too bad he's facing all-star Devin Mesoraco

kaldaniels
06-04-2014, 10:06 PM
Bruce needs to sit......he's not getting it done. Makes no difference how much $$ he makes.

I'm a fan of Bruce. But his production has really hurt the team so far this year. No denying it.

dubc47834
06-04-2014, 10:07 PM
Bruce needs to sit......he's not getting it done. Makes no difference how much $$ he makes.

Are you for real??? He has been hitting better the last couple days. Hard to please...eh!

Tony Cloninger
06-04-2014, 10:07 PM
Terrible at bat by Bruce....yes it's certainly a tough matchup but down 0-2 and he's trying to pull an outside pitch?

Whatever Bruce had been working on.....during ST and to be more patient....which I would hope would lead him to not try to be so pull conscious...especially against the shift...has gone down the drain since the injury.

Playadlc
06-04-2014, 10:08 PM
Hard to sit Bruce. At any point he could hit 5 HR's in a week.