Let's do the Time Warp Again!

[Chip R]

I sure had a nice day at the first season at GAB. What? You mean this is the second season at GAB? Well that's not what the souvenier soda cups said. They said it was the inagural season at GAB and it told of the first Reds win there.

I try to defend the Reds organization even when they do things that seem indefensible. But bringing back souvenier cups from last season is just downright pitiful. I know it's not as big a thing as trading Reitsma or not going out and buying an ace starter and it's really not that big of a deal to me but for the love of Mike at least get new souvenier cups for the new season.

[Matt700wlw]

now THAT is cheap....they're probably ones that were used last year and left under the seats after the games

I hope they're sanitized...

[Krusty]

And they said Marge Schott was cheap. :al_cohol:

[Matt700wlw]

Hey, at least we have a beautiful ballpark

[creek14]

Wonder if those green hot dogs were left over from St Paddy's or last season...

[Matt700wlw]

...you mean that wasn't relish?

[Chip R]

It's not that it's just cheap, it's bad marketing. They are selling the ballpark instead of the team. Instead of a cup they didn't sell from last season how bout a cup with a tribute to Joe or Barry since this will be their last active seasons with the club.

[Matt700wlw]

The team will be giving 110%....

It'll be a fun experience at GABP..and our HOF will be done soon

[Redsland]

At least it didn't say "Welcome to Year 34 of Your Riverfront Stadium!" (THEN what would the team have to promote?)

;)

[UCmaroons]

Are you sure that the cup wasn't just recalling some of the highlights of GAB? You make it sound as if they sold cups from last years opening day, but they couldn't have been from that game if it told of the first GAB win as well. I didn't go and obviosuly don't have the cup, but I was just curious. Anyone else see this cup?

[SirFelixCat]

I have a few of the cups here at the house...they are from last season, not from last Opening Day, but what Cuip says makes sense...why not have a new cup for a new year? Seems kinda chincy to me....

[Matt700wlw]

New year, same product...

[creek14]

Are you sure that the cup wasn't just recalling some of the highlights of GAB? You make it sound as if they sold cups from last years opening day, but they couldn't have been from that game if it told of the first GAB win as well. I didn't go and obviosuly don't have the cup, but I was just curious. Anyone else see this cup?
Yeah I saw them. Same one I got a million of last season. They say Inaugural Season just as big as can be.

At least they passed out flags with 50 stars.

[SandyD]

But bringing back souvenier cups from last season is just downright pitiful. I know it's not as big a thing as trading Reitsma or not going out and buying an ace starter and it's really not that big of a deal to me but for the love of Mike at least get new souvenier cups for the new season.

Chip, IMHO, it's worse. Have a lot left from last year? It's ok to use them, just not on Opening Day. It looks bad. Hand last year's cup to someone on June 25? Who cares? A lot of people won't even notice. On Opening Day, everything should be new. From a marketing standpoint, you can't always control what happens on the field, but you try at project a positive image. A generic cup? fine. Last year's cup here and there throughout the season? No problem. Just not on Opening Day.

[Red Flash]

Is Chip seeing the light?

[UCmaroons]

Horrible.

[Matt700wlw]

Well, we know the payroll slashing didn't go to cup making.....but they may have eliminated that department

[Matt700wlw]

But they are selling opposing team merchandise now.....

[Chip R]

Is Chip seeing the light?
I have never been under any illusions about the lousy way the Reds market their team and this cup thing is just another chapter in a long line of PR missteps for the Reds. D*ck W*agner may have been a lousy GM but he was able to market the Reds a million times better than this bunch. I'm sure they try but Bob Boone tried too. Can you imagine the meeting that this dandy idea came up at? "OK, any ideas on what we should do for souvenier cups this year for Opening Day?"

"How about we have some kind of tribute to Barry Larkin. It's his last Opening Day, you know."

"Terrible idea! What's the matter with you? Anyone else?"

"Yeah, it's Joe Nuxhall's last season, how about we have a cup with him on it. Fans just love Joe."

"Stupid idea. Anyone else?"

"Yeah, how about since we didn't sell all those cups we had from last year, we try to sell the rest of them this year? We sure as heck can't promote anything else besides the ball park."

"Brilliant! You get a promotion!"

Frank Bancroft is probably spinning in his grave right now.

[Matt700wlw]

You nailed it! The payroll slashing went toward the raise for that employees promotion!!

[REDREAD]

:thumbdn:
Another dumb idea by the bozos running this club, but Allen doesn't care, another opening day sell out..

[M2]

No, no Chip, you've got it all wrong. It's was an Opening Day Classic Swag promotion. This way you can recall that refreshing sip of watered-down cola you took when the Atlanta Braves turned Jeff Austin into a pinata.

[creek14]

At least now we understand the 2004 slogan "It's more than just a game"... behind the scenes in the Reds offices they have the rest of it posted, "It's more than just a game, it's a chance to pawn off last years stuff to the fans who pay $30 a ticket to see Jimmy Haynes pitch. Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha."

[KronoRed]

Cheap cheap cheap :(

[KittyDuran]

Has someone sent an email to the Reds FO about this snafu, yet?

[KronoRed]

Has someone sent an email to the Reds FO about this snafu, yet?


The Reds don't use email, they prefer smoke signals, cheaper that way :cool2:

[GAC]

I care more about what's IN the cup, then what is one the outside!

Now was the beer from last year also? :GAC:

[creek14]

Now was the beer from last year also? :GAC:
I do think they increased the price. Bring your pennies on Friday.

Handicap parking increased too. Yes I know that's run by the city, but I would guess the Reds get a cut. It was $7 (I think) the last season at Riverfront, $10 last year at the GAB and $12 this year. Plus the garage under the GAB is at least twice the size it was last season (they opened up the area under the HofF side), so someone is pulling in some dough from that.

[traderumor]

Sounds to me like being invited to dinner and complaining about the filet mignon because the hostess served it on her everyday plates instead of the fine china. I hear what you're all saying, but man, that's some pretty serious nitpicking. Besides, since I know some of you are involved in business, perhaps they had new cups planned but the supplier didn't deliver. Maybe it was a mixup with Sportservice. In other words, maybe there's another explanation that you might seek by contacting the Reds if its really such a big deal to you instead of jumping to the conclusion that its because they are "cheap."

[savafan]

The Reds don't use email, they prefer smoke signals, cheaper that way :cool2:

jallen@cincyreds.com

[creek14]

Yeah TR, everything you say MIGHT be true. And then again, it might not. And the cups aren't the problem. They are just one more nail in the coffin of a once proud baseball club. Now the Reds are nothing more than an afterthought or joke on the nightly baseball recap shows. Not even worthy of having the first game of the season.

Anything to save a buck... or a penny on a new model beverage cup.

[westofyou]

Not even worthy of having the first game of the season.



The Reds start of the season was always somewhat arbitrary thing, never dictated by any rules handed down by baseball and often starting minutes before some other game. The reassigning of the OD festivities to other countries or fat network time slots has more to do with marketing the game as a whole than it does in the degradation of the Reds franchise, the same reason why the Steelers an orginal NFL team moved to the AFC and why the Blackhawks and Red Wings only play the other original six teams once or twice a year in the NHL.

[15fan]

No, no Chip, you've got it all wrong. It's was an Opening Day Classic Swag promotion. This way you can recall that refreshing sip of watered-down cola you took when the Atlanta Braves turned Jeff Austin into a pinata.

As someone who was in Turner Field for Mr. Austin's final start as a Red in '03, I beg you to never speak of that moment again...

[REDREAD]

Besides, since I know some of you are involved in business, perhaps they had new cups planned but the supplier didn't deliver. Maybe it was a mixup with Sportservice. In "
That's stretching it a bit.

They had basically 6 months to get new cups in.

The fact that they saved the old cups basically proves that they intended to recycle them at some point.

If it was a supplier snafu, I'd expect them to have blank cups.

[Puffy]

You know, Opening Day sold out in 16 minutes, even though the Reds front office only added one player to a team that lost 93 games last year. It sold out in 16 minutes even though a lot of ill will was created by the trading of high profile players for prospects last year. The Reds have been lambasted by baseball people for the better part of 8 months. Friends of mine make fun of the Reds because of the purge, because they have not even tried to improve themselves in the offseason. Yet, opening day sold out in 16 minutes.

And the Reds can't even make opening day memorable for the fans in attendance by going all out and getting new cups? Come on - the Reds are going to have trouble drawing fans all year, so don't you think they would go all out to try and make opening day all that and thensome to get people to the park even if the on the field product is less than stellar?

In the big picture, this is a minor thing. But for a team that is in the Reds position the little things are all that are going to be bringing fans to the ballpark in August. There is no excuse for recycling cups on opening day, they should have had a cup that celebrates this opening day, that makes people appreciate that opening day is a special day. Whatever - usually when the Reds lose I get pissed, I'm alot like Edskin, but this year, yesterday, it was like whatever. And its the first time I have ever felt like that this early. I just wish I had a souveneir cup to make me feel better....

[Chip R]

In the big picture, this is a minor thing. But for a team that is in the Reds position the little things are all that are going to be bringing fans to the ballpark in August. There is no excuse for recycling cups on opening day, they should have had a cup that celebrates this opening day, that makes people appreciate that opening day is a special day. Whatever - usually when the Reds lose I get pissed, I'm alot like Edskin, but this year, yesterday, it was like whatever. And its the first time I have ever felt like that this early. I just wish I had a souveneir cup to make me feel better....Agreed. It's a little thing. But since the Reds can't/won't do the big things, they should be able to do the small things. I don't think even minor league teams use the same cups from the year before - and correct me if I'm wrong if this does happen at minor league parks. And maybe they didn't take all the used cups from last year, wash them out and reuse them. Perhaps they just had a lot of extra cups to get rid of since they anticipated more people then what they actually drew. But one time I went with my dad to the Wrold Series in San Diego in 1984 and we got there really early. I befriended a beer vendor who was about my age and he told me if I went around and picked up a lot of empty beer cups - and these were regular cups, not souvenier cups - he'd get me a free beer. I did as I was told and I got my free beer. I don't know if they reused those cups but I wouldn't put it past them. And I wouldn't put it past the Reds. :thumbdn:

[KittyDuran]

Well, I'm going tomorrow night and if I get last year's cup I'll go to the customer desk and ask for an explanation. BTW, the Dayton Dragons have a different cup every year (mostly with the year/schedule on it). I'll let you know. I also will email the FO today...

[KittyDuran]

OK - I sent an email (at the Reds website) to marketing... Here it is:

I'm sending this email on behalf of some fans who attended yesterday's Opening Day.

It seems that the beverage cups that were used were from the first season at GAB (last year's cups). Was there a reason for this and will there be new beverage cups - including some celebrating Joe's and Barry retirements?

If there was a logistic problem - that's fine - but something like this (even if it is a small detail) does cement the overall feeling among many fans of the team cutting corners.

Thank you!

[traderumor]

But for a team that is in the Reds position the little things are all that are going to be bringing fans to the ballpark in August.
Traderumor to wife: C'mon, honey. Don't you just wanna go to one more game? I hear that cup number four of the collector cup series is out.

Sorry, I just don't have that fancentric of a view. I would rather have the price of my drink reduced by $2 and get a plain plastic cup, or a generic Pepsi cup. However, to show you I am not totally FOcentric, it is pitiful to charge what they do for those drinks and use the First in First out inventory method for whatever the reason yesterday. It does look bad, which is why I think Chip's point deserves an explanation. However, I would imagine that emailing JA would get one of those "can you believe what our fans are asking me about?" reaction. This is a little lower level than the FO--this is some departments issue.

BTW, my examples were only that, not making excuses for anyone, just wishing folks would find out what the deal was before jumping to conclusions like cheapness, sort of like the thread that says "Griffey isn't pinch hitting, is that because he's traded?".

Edit. I wrote the above before's Kitty's post. Nice job, Kitty, that is very to the point and not in their face :thumbup:

[TeamCasey]

Sounds to me like being invited to dinner and complaining about the filet mignon because the hostess served it on her everyday plates instead of the fine china.

I don't really care about the cups thing. I just wanted to pick apart your analogy in a friendly, loving way. ;) :)

The Reds aren't having people come down as guests. They are selling them that filet mignon ...... er ...... ground chuck, and expecting them to come back and buy it again. The dinner is on a fancy plate (GAB) that the "guests" already purchased. Now they want to serve you ground chuck on a fancy plate with a plastic spoon and fork.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it. :MandJ:

[traderumor]

TC,

The filet represented a ticket to OD. That should make the analogy work a little bit better for ya. Chip received what he paid for there, a good ballgame in the best OD environment in the world. I've been to an opening day myself and can remember the win over the White Rat's Cardinals but can't even remember if I bought a drink, much less whether the cup was left over from last year or not.

[TeamCasey]

TC,

The filet represented a ticket to OD. That should make the analogy work a little bit better for ya.

I understand that. My point was that you aren't being invited for the filet/ticket. They are selling it to you, in hopes that you'll visit the restaurant again.

(BCubb ought to find some material on this one. :) )

[2001MUgrad]

What's next?

Are they going to pull out uniforms from 1995 in order to save money since they probably have a couple stashed somewhere that are already paid for?

[Chip R]

What's next?

Are they going to pull out uniforms from 1995 in order to save money since they probably have a couple stashed somewhere that are already paid for?
Actually, I wouldn't mind that at all since I thought those were really nice unis.

traderumor, I wouldn't care either if they put my pop in a styrafoam cup. I wouldn't care if it was from a bottle or a can. The pop I got wasn't even in one of those cups. I got the regular one. I just happened to see one of the cups in the cupholder next to me. I thought I'd take a look at it and see what they are doing different this year. Seeing the cup from last year left me flat. Then I questioned why they did that and the first thing that came to mind was that threy had so many extra cups from last season they were trying to foist them off on us this season. It might not be so bad except that the cups had "Inaugural Season Great American Ball Park" on them and this isn't the inaugural season any more. I couldn't care if they had the cups or not but if they are going to have them, and if people didn't want them they wouldn't make them, at least put out some new ones. Perhaps it wasn't because they were trying to save a buck or two but it sure looks that way.

[KittyDuran]

Got a reply - but not an answer... :(

Sir/Maam,

Your comments have been forwarded to the head of Sportservice, which is the company in charge of our food service at the ballpark. I hope that they respond to you promptly, but let me know if they do not after a week. At this time, I am completely unaware of this situation, so I can't really make a comment on it. Thanks,

Zach Bonkowski
Marketing Operations & Events Coordinator
CINCINNATI REDS
Great American Ball Park
100 Main Street
Cincinnati, OH 45202-4109
zbonkowski@cincyreds.com <mailto:zbonkowski@cincyreds.com>
http://www.cincinnatireds.com/ <http://www.cincinnatireds.com/>

[M2]

Oh the fun we're going to have with the name Zach Bonkowski.

[Chip R]

Oh the fun we're going to have with the name Zach Bonkowski.
Zach Attack! It makes sense now. This is one of Zach's money-making schemes he and Screech cooked up. Principal Belding is going to be so mad. ;)

[M2]

I've been Bonkowskied!

[Puffy]

Hey,

If Zach Bonkowski has a sister named Anita and she marries Jung Bong, would she by Anita Bong Bonkowski or Anita Bonkoski Bong?

I'd vote for the first one personally.

Heck - maybe Jung Bong has a sister, I could marry her, and she could be Mrs. Puffy Bong. Oh the possibilities.

[gm]

Aren't first and last names switched in Korea? (like, you'd call someone "Smith, John" instead of "John Smith") Or am I thinking of some other Asian culture?

"If Janet Pine married Forrest Tucker, she'd be..."

"Janet Tucker, Jerry" -- Martin Mull

[KittyDuran]

Another reply from Zach:

Sir/Maam,

After discussing this problem with our ballpark dining company, Sportservice, they informed me that there was no cost cutting involved. Last years cup program was a four part series. Because of the declining attendance at the ballpark after unfortunate team injuries, the forth cup was never printed.

They thought that there would be a lot of Reds collectors out there that wanted to see cup number four, which they now have. Yesterday we had both cups numbers three and four for purchase and they will be available during the beginning portion of the season.

And you were correct, this year's cup series will include a cup honoring both Barry and Joe's retirement from the Reds.

As always, we will do our best, along with our partners such as Sportservice, to make every fans experience at the ballpark as enjoyable as possible. We hope this helps explain the situation,

Zach Bonkowski
Marketing Operations & Events Coordinator
CINCINNATI REDS
Great American Ball Park
100 Main Street
Cincinnati, OH 45202-4109
zbonkowski@cincyreds.com <mailto:zbonkowski@cincyreds.com>
Voice 513-765-7037
Fax 513-765-7153
http://www.cincinnatireds.com/ <http://www.cincinnatireds.com/>

[Chip R]

Another reply from Zach:

Sir/Maam,

After discussing this problem with our ballpark dining company, Sportservice, they informed me that there was no cost cutting involved. Last years cup program was a four part series. Because of the declining attendance at the ballpark after unfortunate team injuries, the forth cup was never printed.

They thought that there would be a lot of Reds collectors out there that wanted to see cup number four, which they now have. Yesterday we had both cups numbers three and four for purchase and they will be available during the beginning portion of the season. Hmmm, then why does that cup look so familiar if it was never printed? I will have to take a look when I get home to see if Zach is full of it or not.

[2001MUgrad]

I will have to take a look when I get home to see if Zach is full of it or not.

You think he's full of Bonkowski??? I'd guess he probably is :help:

[REDREAD]

Well if the forth cup was never printed, why print it for this year? Why not do something else? Maybe because the Reds already paid for it? Even if they were
printed on Sunday, it's still incredibly lame to have the "Inagural" Cup this year.

[KittyDuran]

Hmmm, then why does that cup look so familiar if it was never printed? Would it be Cup #3? To be honest I didn't know that there were different cups (I don't like Pepsi products) and I only have one cup... :(

[M2]

So let me get this straight. They allowed last year's screw up, not issuing all four cups, to spill over into a new screw up this season, issuing a cup with the wrong year on it.

Times like this you wish their hands could find their rears in order to remove their heads. That is a major league Bonkowski they just pulled.

[traderumor]

You guys asked for a reasonable explanation, you got one. Apparently, those collectors looking for the missing cups aren't RedZoners since I didn't see any happy little posters that are so glad they handled this as such.

And Zach was overheard to say:"I'd have gotten away with it, too, if it wasn't for that pesky Chip, and the rest of those meddling RedZoners." :help:

[Chip R]

Would it be Cup #3? To be honest I didn't know that there were different cups (I don't like Pepsi products) and I only have one cup... :(You're probably right. I re-read the e-mail and I think I may have seen Cup #3. I guess I misunderstood that and thought the one I saw was the one that wasn't printed. Still, it's poor marketing. Having 2003 cups in 2004 is just plain dumb.

[M2]

It's only reasonable if you allow for the Reds being a hopelessly inept business ... and if you assume Bonkowski's reply wasn't just a fancy way of saying, "We contracted to have these cups printed and, dammit, we're not using new ones until they're gone."

If it was such a big deal to offer the fourth cup, it should have been scheduled for last year. It was as simple as putting it on a calendar. Otherwise the response to issuing last year's cup now should have been, "That's all well and good, but it's 2004 and I think we have to assume people know that."

[traderumor]

It's only reasonable if you allow for the Reds being a hopelessly inept business

I think that's a bit, ok a lot, of an overstatement for a matter such as this. This is not that big of a honking deal. Plausible decision making process on this one: "Yea we have these cups from last year. Do you think anyone will notice or care? Do you think someone would form a conclusion about our organization because technically this is 'last year's cup?' Nah, me neither. Let's go ahead and use 'em. At least for those wanting the full collection they can get one, and the rest of 'em could probably care less." Guess they underestimated the degree of minutiae that some concern themselves with.

[KittyDuran]

If it was such a big deal to offer the fourth cup, it should have been scheduled for last year. It was as simple as putting it on a calendar. Otherwise the response to issuing last year's cup now should have been, "That's all well and good, but it's 2004 and I think we have to assume people know that." M2 - they don't advertise in the calendar because they are available during the all the games - you can ask for a collector cup or not (the collector cups are usually larger and more expensive). I wasn't aware that there were different cups each year.

Right now I'm looking at the 3 cups that I have - 1 from last year (that says Collector Series #1 or 4 and another with Austin Kearns (2 of those and from 2002) that says Collector Series #5 or 5. What's so funny is that I've never notice the #'s before. I usually get them at the end of the game (along with lots of other fans) and wash them out, then soak them in dishwashing liquid overnight. And that's only if I like them...

[KittyDuran]

the rest of 'em could probably care less Very true, the many that some fans pick up, there are still thousands that get thrown in the trash... :(

[KittyDuran]

Hey I found some more cups!!! :mhcky21:

2 small UDF BRM 15th Anniversary (2000)
1 of Junior (2000) (1 of 3)
3 of the Coca Cola ones (1999) Why didn't I get the 4th??? I love Sprite!!!

[M2]

tr, the simple response from anyone with a professional bone in their body to the scenario you laid out should have been, "That's all well and good, but it's 2004 and I think we have to assume people know that."

It makes it look like the team's doing things on the cheap, probably because it is. You've seen in this thread that cutting corners on something like this makes people wonder about the freshness of the food at the concessions and whether other money-saving measures might not lead to funky restrooms.

The team botched a ballpark project -- lowest first season attendance of any new park, payroll immediately falls back to pre-2003 levels. On top of that, the team botches the basics of pubic relations, marketing and customer care on a regular basis. Fans booed the team owner yesterday with the Vice President sitting next to him and we're not talking about Philadelphians here. If the Reds were a public company, would you sink your hard-earned money into them and expect any kind of return?

Even if you look past the "whatever" attitude toward details, if the team can't get a simple cup promotion right what hope is there that they'll score a significantly better television contract or launch a successful market expansion?

Kitty, my point is that if they had four collector's cups to issue in 2003, then certainly by September they should have swapped out models 1-3 for model #4 if they thought it was important to get them into the hands of their fans.

[BigRed75]

I've seen some ridiculous threads on this forum but this one takes the cake. Some of you probably complained that the sun was to bright at Opening Day. I swear, you guys are only happy when you're complaining. I can't blame guernsey one bit for not wanting to come back here...sometimes I wonder why I stick around. I guess it's because I remember the old days of great baseball posts from Red Storm, Spitball and Rem (just to name a few) and hope to see that kind of discussion but instead I come to read a topic about cups. :rolleyes:

[Chip R]

OK, I just checked my cupboard and I have 3 of the 4 cups from last year. The one I saw yesterday was #3 in a series of 4. I was wondering late last year why I kept seeing that 3rd one.

M2 is right. Bonkowski's reply was just saying that they had a contract to have those cups printed and they were going to use them. Attendence fell off (Blame the fans) and so they decided to hold off printing #4 probably to save a few bucks. But since they had a contract to print those cups, they darn well are going to use them. I don't think I would have been as irritated if they had used them later in the year. Of course by then attendence might go south again and then they would have to wait till 2005 to use them. But get something new for Opening Day, for crying out loud. I would think the Reds would want the fans to forget 2003. Maybe Rumpke should own the Reds. The Reds sure like to recycle stuff. They recycled Fox Sport Ohio's TV commercial last year as their own for this year so why not recycle the cups from last year as this year's cups.

traderumor, I know you don't think this is a big deal, and that's fine. I don't think a $45M payroll is that big of a deal but others do and they feel their concern is legitimate. But obviously some people do think this cup deal is a big deal because it's typical of the way the Reds market their product - or should I say anti-market their product. Some people like to have these little souveniers from the park otherwise they wouldn't make them. If a team decides not to do that, that's fine. But if you are going to do it, do it right.

[M2]

I don't know BR75, seems to me if the Reds were a better run business maybe that would help them put a better product in the field.

They're trying to sell the 2004 season yet they're handing out 2003 cups. How long you think Bonkowski would last in front of Donald Trump before he got a "You're fired" for that one?

[KittyDuran]

Hmmm... I think I'll email this thread to Zach. I did thank him for his prompt responses.

[alloverjr]

I think it's an absolute shame what this organization has become. Would I care what cup I got at the stadium? No. But the underlying tone set forth by this move shows that they can't find their rears with both hands. They have certainly turned me off from this club, or at least the season. As a former season ticket holder for ten years and a listerner of every game of every year - location permitting, this organization has managed to do what I never thought possible. Yesterday, not only did I turn down free tickets multiple times, it was the first time I can remember not even turning the game on the radio to listen. I know, no one cares. It's just strange feeling so apathetic towards something I used to work my days around.

Off topic. So you thought John Allen was watching every dime going out the door, huh? Well...the Reds bought $305 worth of product from my company and paid the invoice by check - on time I might add. And who took the time to sign my $337 check? Mr. Allen himself. Not a stamp. Shouldn't he be going to PR classes instead of taking the time to sign checks of that level? Maybe not. Oh, and yes, he overpaid the invoice by $32. Thanks John. I am going to send the difference back to him with the caveat that the money must be put into the 2004 souvenier cup fund. ;)

[BigRed75]

I don't know BR75, seems to me if the Reds were a better run business maybe that would help them put a better product in the field.

They're trying to sell the 2004 season yet they're handing out 2003 cups. How long you think Bonkowski would last in front of Donald Trump before he got a "You're fired" for that one?

We're talking about a cup right? A mother @#!$*&% cup!!!!!!!!!!! You people have to be kidding me? This is just getting stupid now. I too like to collect the cups when I go to a game but I'll be damned if I'll analyze how a baseball team is being operated based on a frickin' cup and then go pontificate on a baseball forum.

[M2]

Yeah, better to complain about people who'd like to see a bad organization run better.

Put this another way. Say you get on an airplane tomorrow and you reach into the pouch in front of you to check out the airline's house magazine. Say the magazine you grab carries an August, 2003 date stamp.

Some people might not give it a second thought (then again they may not have a first thought to give it either). Yet others will wonder why in the heck months of cleaning crews didn't manage to get the older magazine out of there. Or perhaps the airline discontinued the magazine, which might make you wonder if the parent company is going through a rough patch financially. Is the airline's attention to safety better than its internal cleaning procedures? Is the seat you're in all that sanitary? Exactly which employees in the company are being paid well enough to care about their jobs?

Sure, it's just a detail. Of course in the service industry DETAILS MATTER. An airline doesn't wasn't some stray unchecked detail to undermine the confidence of its customers and a baseball team doesn't want some stray unchecked detail to undermine the confidence of the ticket buying public that it's committed to giving them the best team/ballpark experience it can.

[Chip R]

We're talking about a cup right? A mother @#!$*&% cup!!!!!!!!!!! You people have to be kidding me? This is just getting stupid now. I too like to collect the cups when I go to a game but I'll be damned if I'll analyze how a baseball team is being operated based on a frickin' cup and then go pontificate on a baseball forum.
People complain on here almost every day that the Reds aren't winning and/or they are a terrible organization because the payroll is too low. What I'm saying is that this cup situation is just an example of why the Reds are a terrible organization. One has as much to do with it as the other. It has been proven time and again that just because you have a large payroll doesn't mean you are a good organization or will be a winner.

For want of a nail the shoe was lost. For want of a shoe the horse was lost. For want of a horse the rider was lost. For want of a rider the battle was lost. For want of a battle the kingdom was lost. And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

[REDREAD]

Kitty, my point is that if they had four collector's cups to issue in 2003, then certainly by September they should have swapped out models 1-3 for model #4 if they thought it was important to get them into the hands of their fans.


My thoughts exactly.. If they ordered too many cups that year, and were already commited to printing cup #4 anyhow,
why not have a spontaneous give away night.. first 20k fans or whatever get cup #4.. Or on fan appreciation night,
you can buy a surplus cup with soda in it at a special low price (low enough to ensure they're all gone).. It appears the cups were a sunk cost anyhow. A smart
business would've created some goodwill out of it in 2003, as opposed to the half-reared way the Reds did it..:rolleyes:

[REDREAD]

Is the seat you're in all that sanitary? .

Not in the GAB, Allen was too cheap to put seat liners in :lol:

Sorry, I know I'm :deadhorse: but I couldn't resist :lol: