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View Full Version : Kearns isn't ready for the bigs...



paulrichjr
05-18-2004, 07:39 PM
OK guys I read the quotes in the game thread and to tell you the truth I can't believe DanO has said this to anyone. Kearns is the best player on the team when he is healthy in my opinion. I say DanO didn't say it... What do you think?

KYRedsFan
05-18-2004, 07:40 PM
Hal's trying to sell papers. That's what I think. We'll see. Came off as gossip that Hal placed just a bit too much emphasis on.

Matt700wlw
05-18-2004, 07:41 PM
I guess we'll find out

Redsland
05-18-2004, 07:51 PM
Hal said that "a couple people" "in the clubhouse" "have a theory." Which is that Kearns struggled in Spring Training and during the regular season, so DanO hasn't seen Kearns at his best. Therefore, he may think AK isn't ready for the bigs, and wants to see him put up consistent numbers in the minors first.

It's a plausible theory. After all, LaRue got the call to return after going one-for-nine, yet Kearns stays down with a .385 average. Something clearly is going on here.

On the other hand, you'd think that DanO, in his role as an Asst. GM last year, would be familiar with Ears.

OTOH, if DanO knew his ML players, he wouldn't have to think so hard about potential transactions.

Regardless of how you interpret this, you've got to question DanO's competance, during either this year or last.



In any case, Hal's just reporting a plausible theory he heard. That's his job.

KronoRed
05-18-2004, 08:00 PM
I'm taking it with a pound of salt since Hal said it, but if Dan O think Kearns is not mlb ready then he needs to review tapes from last season and the season before

Redmachine2003
05-18-2004, 08:03 PM
Like DanO can judge talent. He thinks Kearns isn't major league Ready but Romano is. Just who I want running the team.

westofyou
05-18-2004, 08:04 PM
http://www.cavalierdaily.com:2001/.Archives/1997/March/4/aerose.gif

Redmachine2003
05-18-2004, 08:07 PM
Tonight's game
"Kearns walked in the first and later was singled in, and then was walked in his second AB."
So if they not going to pitch to him what good is the Rehab, DanO.
Kearns now has like 1.300ops at AAA What more does DanO need.

traderumor
05-18-2004, 08:14 PM
Why does anyone listen to Hal McCoy? And further, why would anyone get worked up about what he says? If you believe what he was saying is true, let me tell ya about some land I got to sell.

Matt700wlw
05-18-2004, 08:16 PM
Why does anyone listen to Hal McCoy? And further, why would anyone get worked up about what he says? If you believe what he was saying is true, let me tell ya about some land I got to sell.

I could see DanO saying something like that...

However, I guess you can't jump to conclusions until the article comes out and we see what sort of quotes are in it and who said them.

Hopefully it's nothing

RedFanAlways1966
05-18-2004, 08:17 PM
woy... :lol:

AAA rehab is get your timing down-pat. I'd say, by the numbers, that he has got his timing down-pat. And maybe to get some confidence at the same time. Time to cut the crap and get AK back in RF on this team. I have not watched AK in Louisville, but I have read about it. He s/b back... now.

I think (I hope for the sake of this team) that this story is a bunch of hogwash-rumor-bull that Hal is trying to make into a story. If not, I'd say we have a nut-case for a GM.

One more thing... it is known that Hal and Marty are buds. I seemed to notice "glee" (for lack of a better term) in Marty's voice when he heard this story from Hal. Almost as if he was happy to hear the tale or perhaps he was happy to be the 1st media to "break the story". Just seemed weird (Hal's story and Marty's tone).

tremere
05-18-2004, 08:18 PM
Tonight's game
"Kearns walked in the first and later was singled in, and then was walked in his second AB."
So if they not going to pitch to him what good is the Rehab, DanO.
Kearns now has like 1.300ops at AAA What more does DanO need.

How many years has Kearns played in the big leagues? Two. Considering the total number of AB's over two seasons (715), he is in a serious sophomore slump. In other words, lots of players do great in their first full season, then either burn bright or fizzle. Even if his performance has been due to injury, then you have to consider that he doesn't belong in the majors at this point anyway, since he really needs a lot of REST.

Aronchis
05-18-2004, 08:26 PM
Typical Hal, twist words to fit your agenda. What was probably said that Kearns isn't "physical" ready to come back yet, and they just aren't talking about broken bones.

TeamBoone
05-18-2004, 09:44 PM
Hal didn't say it! He was repeating what he said he heard in the clubhouse (though I'm not sure he should be doing that). That being said, perhaps the "couple of people" in the clubhouse were being sarcastic too. He said the players were wondering why he hadn't been called back.

Regarding DO, when he made his "acceptance" speech after being hired, didn't he say he was going to watch tapes over the winter to become familiar with the players? I guess he didn't look at Austin's very carefully if he truly doesn't realize how good he is. Not only that, but you'd think someone would have enlightened him by now... Miley certainly knows.

Krusty
05-18-2004, 09:46 PM
Maybe the Reds want to get one last look at Pena before recalling Kearns.

VR
05-18-2004, 09:49 PM
:MandJ:

letsgojunior
05-18-2004, 10:10 PM
I'm guessing this is where it is from:

Waiting game: Despite going 3-for-5 with two doubles on Monday, the Reds decided not to call up outfielder Austin Kearns from his Triple-A rehab assignment.

Kearns, who is rehabbing from a fractured left forearm, is hitting .385 (10-for-26) with three doubles, a triple, two home runs, eight RBIs, a stolen base and five runs scored during seven games with Triple-A Louisville.

"I'm really surprised he's not up here," Casey said. "We're talking about Austin Kearns He's one of the best hitters in baseball. When I talked to him he said he feels great so yeah I'm surprised.

Redmachine2003
05-18-2004, 10:15 PM
How many years has Kearns played in the big leagues? Two. Considering the total number of AB's over two seasons (715), he is in a serious sophomore slump. In other words, lots of players do great in their first full season, then either burn bright or fizzle. Even if his performance has been due to injury, then you have to consider that he doesn't belong in the majors at this point anyway, since he really needs a lot of REST.
Consider that the Reds kept playing Kearns 30 games after he tore up his should I would not consider this a sophomore slump. I was willing to write off April for Kearns to get his timing back as his shoulder got better. I was thinking May was going to be better for him as his shoulder got stronger and his timing got better. The same with Jr who also had shoulder surgery last year. Kearns swing got longer and slower last year after he hurt his shoulder and it started out that way this year but as the year went on watching him his swing was getting shorter and faster but his eye at the plate was still off and then he got hit by that pitch. 550 abs batting over .300 and after hurting his shoulder 150 plus abs batting under .200 I tend to say injury over slump.

CrackerJack
05-18-2004, 10:15 PM
Isn't kind of obvious DO likes Romano since he was one of the people responsible for drafting him originally? Am I wrong/misinformed there? I don't know that it's such a bad idea to have Kearns rehab in AAA for a couple of weeks to get back in a groove, but yeah you gotta wonder why he wasn't back tonight.

A little odd.

Matt700wlw
05-18-2004, 10:16 PM
I was all about keeping Kearns down in AAA for a week to 10 days to get him back in his groove....it seems as if he's back in it so far

I say bring him back this week, assuming something unforseen doesn't happen

westofyou
05-18-2004, 10:19 PM
Isn't kind of obvious DO likes Romano since he was one of the people responsible for drafting him originally? Am I wrong/misinformed there? I don't know that it's such a bad idea to have Kearns rehab in AAA for a couple of weeks to get back in a groove, but yeah you gotta wonder why he wasn't back tonight.

A little odd.


Romano was drafted by Texas, his AAA line in a hitters league is alot like Hummel, he should be an infielder.

http://www.forecaster.ca/thestar/baseball/player.cgi?2180

MWM
05-18-2004, 10:31 PM
Hal's a hack. Always has been!

Redsland
05-18-2004, 10:37 PM
Hal haters get me down.

He's a guy trying to do a job. In my opinion, he does it well.

buckeyenut
05-18-2004, 10:40 PM
Kearns still needs activity to build up his shoulder muscle from his surgery. Numbers don't tell you everything, especially with this sample size.

Does it hurt when he swings in either his arm or his forearm? Is the guy sore the next day? How does his swing look? Does he look like he is 100% or is getting lucky.

Maybe there is a trade in the works that he wants to give a couple of days on before being pushed on a roster move. Maybe Kearns was batting under the Mendoza line before he was hurt and they would like to see him really get rolling for a little bit and get full confidence back before bringing him up.

There are lots of reasons why you might not make this move tonight. And Hal's quote could have EASILY been misquoted or misconstrued.

Matt700wlw
05-18-2004, 10:42 PM
Before I scream and yell (which is always a possibility) I'd like to see the story, see the quotes, and see who is quoted....if DanO isn't quoted of the sort, then it is most likely speculation based on what other people said.

MWM
05-18-2004, 10:42 PM
Not saying he's not trying to do his job and I don't hate the guy. In my opinion, he doesn't do it very well. I've read plenty of McCoy columns and I can't remember ever reading anything that made me think he's a good writer or really knows baseball all that well. He loves the game and I'm sure he's a good enough guy. I just don't find him especially insightful or interesting to read. I don't know what makes him hall worthy other than the fact that he's been around a long time.

Redsland
05-18-2004, 10:51 PM
Before I scream and yell (which is always a possibility) I'd like to see the story, see the quotes, and see who is quoted....if DanO isn't quoted of the sort, then it is most likely speculation based on what other people said.
Based on what he said on the radio, I expect the clubhouse chatter to be "not for attribution." I suspect Hal will try to corner DanO, but will either get a dismissal of the claim or an "unavailable for comment."

alloverjr
05-18-2004, 10:59 PM
If what Hal allegedly stated is true, I have to wonder what the FO is thinking. He was certainly ready for the ML's last year at this time when he was near the top in RBI's. But no one knows if this is true until someone from the FO comes out and says so.

Regardless, I'm not sure I see the logic in not bringing him up. It's not as if they have bided their time by playing Pena on a regular basis to see if increased reps will prove him worthy of a roster spot. Instead they have played the likes of Freel (who I like), Romano, Cruz and sparingly Pena in his absence. No real plan and such no real reason to keep him down. This isn't a rookie they're afraid to rush to the majors. He's been in the league three years (injuries aside). He's proven himself worthy of a roster spot when available.

My big concern is not that DO doesn't think AK is ready for the ML's, but that he is so afraid to make a roster move because most scenarios would have him lose a player to waivers - Romano, Pena, Cruz (?). Let's make a decision to help the club. I was impressed that he was able/willing to dump Haynes, but equally perplexed about this non-move.

Redmachine2003
05-18-2004, 11:29 PM
I really have to wonder about DanO. So far I would have to say I am not impressed at all by him. I am not sure what team he is watching because I am not seeing the same thing in some of the players he is.

Chip R
05-18-2004, 11:41 PM
The Reds once again let the media tell the story rather than tell the story themselves. I know DanO likes to play things close to the vest and not blab all kinds of stuff out there but in this case it was a bad move. When Kearns was sent down on rehab he could have said, "We're giving him so long down there then we'll call him up." or "We'll keep him down there a few days, evaluate him and make a decision at that time." Instead all we get are shrugs and "I dunnos" about Austin's status. Since no one knows what exactly his status is it becomes a breeding ground for rumor and innuendo. Maybe these guys who talked to Hal have it in for DanO so they concoct some rumor that DanO doesn't think Kearns is big league material. Now whether this is true or not is irrelevant. Even if Hal goes to DanO and tells him he's going to run a story that says that DanO thinks Kearns is a stiff and DanO denies it, people aren't going to believe him. If he doesn't comment it looks just as bad because it looks like they are hiding something. Instead of being open and controlling the story from their end, DanO and the Reds let the story play them. From now on this is going to stick to DanO like the "Old 30" remark stuck to Bill DeWitt. Whenever Kearns does something good people are going to say, "And O'Brien didn't think he could play. What does he know?" It doesn't matter if it's true because people are going to believe it's true even if DanO swears on a stack of bibles that it isn't. JimBo's problem was that he didn't know when to keep his mouth shut. DanO's problem may be that he doesn't know when to open it.

Rocket_Fuel
05-19-2004, 12:52 AM
Why does anyone listen to Hal McCoy? And further, why would anyone get worked up about what he says? If you believe what he was saying is true, let me tell ya about some land I got to sell.

Well Hal McCoy IS a Hall-of-Famer and very credible. I'd trust Hal over anything the Cincinnati Reds say or do.

Rocket_Fuel
05-19-2004, 01:01 AM
Not saying he's not trying to do his job and I don't hate the guy. In my opinion, he doesn't do it very well. I've read plenty of McCoy columns and I can't remember ever reading anything that made me think he's a good writer or really knows baseball all that well. He loves the game and I'm sure he's a good enough guy. I just don't find him especially insightful or interesting to read. I don't know what makes him hall worthy other than the fact that he's been around a long time.

Really? I remember 2 years ago when Bartolo Colon was with the Indians Hal said he was available and the Reds were interested in him. The guy got TRASHED. A month later we found out that the Reds had been trying to get Colon for the past TWO months. Hal's info is strong. My god, people say that Hal isn't reputable, what on earth has O'Brien done to make HIM credible right now!? I like some of O'Brien's moves (getting Lidle and I think the Bong/Nelson trade will eventually pay off), but the guy drags his feet on so many things it has become frustrating. And when you completely dismiss getting a quality player like Boone instead of at least EXPLORING the opportunity you look bad. Nobody is saying sign Boone, but at least explore it. Don't blow it off and tell the guy not to wait by the phone. And don't talk about investing in young players when Boone is a mere 3 years older then Larson. Things like that just tick people off.

TeamCasey
05-19-2004, 06:00 AM
Why is it whenever there's news we don't like, folks on here tend to trash the messenger? Not just picking on you, MWM. It's a trend.

Bowden's Ghost
05-19-2004, 07:42 AM
Let me be the voice of reason here, folks. And let's all take a deep breath and relax. I wouldn't put much credence in whatever Hal McCoy says, he likes to stir the pot (which is fine, because that is his job).
As far as our so-called GM, i am usually the first person to bash him. But until O'Brien publicly states this opinion we can't accuse him of saying it. But if he does, he should be tarred and feathered in fountain square.

Dan
05-19-2004, 07:42 AM
From Today's DDN:


Kearns not convincing

There is at least one person in the Reds organization who thinks general manager Dan O'Brien isn't convinced about the abilities of outfielder Austin Kearns, which may explain his lengthy rehab stay at Class AAA Louisville, where he is hitting .385.

"Dan only saw him in spring training and then the start of this season, and Austin wasn't playing that well either time," the man said. "I'm not so sure Dan believes, at this point, that Austin can play at this level. He is being assured that he can."

With Freel out and with Colorado left-hander Shawn Estes starting, Tuesday would have been a perfect spot for Kearns, but he was shuffled off to Buffalo with Louisville.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/content/sports/reds/daily/0519redsnotes.html

Phhhl
05-19-2004, 08:01 AM
It's a general manager's job to know a LOT more about all the major league players (and minor league for that matter) all around baseball. If it is true that DanO only knows Austin Kearns from what he has seen since he became General Manager, then he is an imbecile. Kearns was recognized as one of the finest young hitters in all of the game the first part of 2003, not some 30 year old career minor leaguer taking his final shot at a major league roster.

I believe Hal. Dan O'Brien was a rotten choice to be the general manager of this team. We're probably stuck with him for at least 10 years because he follows the company line and will never put his ass on the line for a deal or ask to expand the budget.

GoReds
05-19-2004, 08:33 AM
What, if anything, is Austin's time in the minors doing to his arbitration clock?

letsgojunior
05-19-2004, 08:36 AM
The Reds once again let the media tell the story rather than tell the story themselves. I know DanO likes to play things close to the vest and not blab all kinds of stuff out there but in this case it was a bad move. When Kearns was sent down on rehab he could have said, "We're giving him so long down there then we'll call him up." or "We'll keep him down there a few days, evaluate him and make a decision at that time." Instead all we get are shrugs and "I dunnos" about Austin's status. Since no one knows what exactly his status is it becomes a breeding ground for rumor and innuendo. Maybe these guys who talked to Hal have it in for DanO so they concoct some rumor that DanO doesn't think Kearns is big league material. Now whether this is true or not is irrelevant. Even if Hal goes to DanO and tells him he's going to run a story that says that DanO thinks Kearns is a stiff and DanO denies it, people aren't going to believe him. If he doesn't comment it looks just as bad because it looks like they are hiding something. Instead of being open and controlling the story from their end, DanO and the Reds let the story play them. From now on this is going to stick to DanO like the "Old 30" remark stuck to Bill DeWitt. Whenever Kearns does something good people are going to say, "And O'Brien didn't think he could play. What does he know?" It doesn't matter if it's true because people are going to believe it's true even if DanO swears on a stack of bibles that it isn't. JimBo's problem was that he didn't know when to keep his mouth shut. DanO's problem may be that he doesn't know when to open it.

Great post Chip.

smith288
05-19-2004, 08:49 AM
It's a general manager's job to know a LOT more about all the major league players (and minor league for that matter) all around baseball. If it is true that DanO only knows Austin Kearns from what he has seen since he became General Manager, then he is an imbecile. Kearns was recognized as one of the finest young hitters in all of the game the first part of 2003, not some 30 year old career minor leaguer taking his final shot at a major league roster.

I believe Hal. Dan O'Brien was a rotten choice to be the general manager of this team. We're probably stuck with him for at least 10 years because he follows the company line and will never put his ass on the line for a deal or ask to expand the budget.
I think you might be forgetting about Haynes.

RedsBaron
05-19-2004, 08:57 AM
If Kearns is healthy and now swinging the bat well, and this appears to be the case on both counts, he should be in Cincinnati ASAP, i.e., NOW.

Chip R
05-19-2004, 09:01 AM
As I said, it doesn't matter if this is true or not, the perception is there that it is true. But one of the reasons I don't think it's true is that if you remember during ST there were rumors that Dunn or Jr. would be traded. But the rumors also said that Kearns was untouchable. I really don't think that he's gone from untouchable to AAA lifer in 2 months in DanO's mind.

Marc D
05-19-2004, 09:07 AM
It took this FO 1-1/4 years to figure out Haynes sucks

They are committed to a 27 year old Larson at 3B and summarily dismiss even thinking about brinning back Boone

AK goes down and instead of getting AB's for the only prospect we have, they fill the gap with Freel/Romano/Cruz


I don't know HM's track record but this FO has done nothing to earn the benifit of the doubt imo.

Redsland
05-19-2004, 09:36 AM
What, if anything, is Austin's time in the minors doing to his arbitration clock?
Austin is on a rehab assignment, so his clock continues to run. If he'd been optioned down, then it would have stopped running.


Chip, great post about DanO's tight-lippedness. (Hmm, Carl's tight-fisted, Dan's tight-lipped… Can we work John Allen into this matrix?)

Santo, you're dead-on, as always.

traderumor
05-19-2004, 09:53 AM
I haven't seen one person have anything other than a .385 BA with a few extra base hits as the smoking gun that Kearns is ready to contribute up here. Rather, a sportswriter that even his supporters admit he is sometimes full of crap and gets stuff started with little or no evidence but pure conjecture is being taken at his word. Honestly, I enjoy Hal's column, but when he starts his "Rona Barrett of sports reporting act" I could care less what he has to say because he often is sensationalistic with his speculation. Some bring up a few rumors that he got right, yet how many hundreds over the year has he been dead wrong about? I guess since he's a baseball reporter, he'd be about a .250 hitter.

What I would like to see is one person that has actually seen Austin hit in his time with Louisville and give an opinion on how he's swinging the bat. While we know what he is capable of doing, you have to admit that a lot of folks thought this a rehab assignment was just what he needed. Since that is exactly what they are doing, now Hal McCoy getting a few ballplayers' opinions in the clubhouse tells us he's ready to produce like we know he can at the major league level. The change of heart of so many is interesting.

princeton
05-19-2004, 09:55 AM
if I'm another GM, I'm making some really solid offers for Austin Kearns right now...

fortunately for us, it'll take DanO a few years to think about it. Here's where deliberation helps

traderumor
05-19-2004, 09:57 AM
As I said, it doesn't matter if this is true or not, the perception is there that it is true. But one of the reasons I don't think it's true is that if you remember during ST there were rumors that Dunn or Jr. would be traded. But the rumors also said that Kearns was untouchable. I really don't think that he's gone from untouchable to AAA lifer in 2 months in DanO's mind.

Chip,

Do you honestly think that Dan O'Brien should address every rumor that these hack sportswriters start? I would hope he has better things to do. I find an opinion that "it doesn't matter if this is true or not" an interesting take for any walk of life. I guess that's why tabloids and professional wrestling thrive in this country. Pretty sad if you ask me.

sig
05-19-2004, 10:01 AM
Well since O'Brien came from the Rangers here's another Reds-Rangers comparison. 2 years ago Hank Blalock won the strting 3b job in spring tarining for the Rangers. He promptly played about a month or 2 and couldn't hit anything. They sent him to the minors for most of the summer if not all. I don't remember exactly how long he went back for. Anyhow he returned as the starter last year, has hit well since, and is one of the top 3b in the game now. So maybe an extended stint in the minors may not be such a bad thing. I guess the difference is Kearns has hit in the bigs before whereas Hank struggled in his first attempt.

Redsland
05-19-2004, 10:02 AM
if I'm another GM, I'm making some really solid offers for Austin Kearns right now...
Yikes. :eek: You're absolutely right.

GoReds
05-19-2004, 10:06 AM
Speaking of Blalock and pulling a bit from princeton's post...

Would you trade Kearns for Blalock right now?

MWM
05-19-2004, 10:06 AM
Really? I remember 2 years ago when Bartolo Colon was with the Indians Hal said he was available and the Reds were interested in him. The guy got TRASHED. A month later we found out that the Reds had been trying to get Colon for the past TWO months. Hal's info is strong. My god, people say that Hal isn't reputable, what on earth has O'Brien done to make HIM credible right now!? I like some of O'Brien's moves (getting Lidle and I think the Bong/Nelson trade will eventually pay off), but the guy drags his feet on so many things it has become frustrating. And when you completely dismiss getting a quality player like Boone instead of at least EXPLORING the opportunity you look bad. Nobody is saying sign Boone, but at least explore it. Don't blow it off and tell the guy not to wait by the phone. And don't talk about investing in young players when Boone is a mere 3 years older then Larson. Things like that just tick people off.
You started at one point and then went three different directions which had nothing to do with my original point. I said I didn't think Hal was a good writer and you end up talking about O'Brien's credibility, the Bong trade, signing Boone, etc....

I don't know if his sources are good or not. I've read plenty of good baseball writers and I just don't think Hal is one of them.


Why is it whenever there's news we don't like, folks on here tend to trash the messenger? Not just picking on you, MWM. It's a trend.
It's not like that at all, TC. Frankly, I do't care all that much about this particular message because I don't believe it.

I've been pretty consistent in my opinion of Hal McCoy, regardless of his opinion on certain things. I would never trash the messenger when I don't like the message. Again, I have read lots of Hal's columns and I've not once found something insightful to come out of them. It's not personal, really. I don't dislike the guy. I just don't see what's so great about him other than he's been around a long time. He's not a great writer and he doesn't bring any new insights or ideas into the game of baseball. Maybe he gets a scopp from time to time, but I really don't care about that.

traderumor
05-19-2004, 10:14 AM
Well Hal McCoy IS a Hall-of-Famer and very credible. I'd trust Hal over anything the Cincinnati Reds say or do.

Maybe sniffing a bit of that rocket fuel?

GAC
05-19-2004, 10:22 AM
Like DanO can judge talent. He thinks Kearns isn't major league Ready but Romano is. Just who I want running the team.

Yes DanO can judge talent. Look at his resume. Quite impressive.

Don't judge the guy OVERALL by the Romano pickup. I'm sure that Romano will be gone when it is expediant to do so.

If we can show factual statements/positions made by O'Brien, then more power to you. But this "he said, she said" stuff concerning O'Brien and Kearns is ridiculous IMO. There is way too much speculation and assumption going on, IMO, for some to be leveling the accusations at O'Brien like they are.

O'Brien stated last week that their position on Kearns was to allow him the time, and A/B's, in the minors to get his confidence and swing back, and that he again feels comfortable. And a couple weeks in the minors may just be what Austin needs.

Is Austin complaining about it? Then why are some of us? ;)

Chip R
05-19-2004, 10:26 AM
Chip,

Do you honestly think that Dan O'Brien should address every rumor that these hack sportswriters start? I would hope he has better things to do. I find an opinion that "it doesn't matter if this is true or not" an interesting take for any walk of life. I guess that's why tabloids and professional wrestling thrive in this country. Pretty sad if you ask me.Of course he shouldn't. But the Reds and DanO have not said a word about what Kearns needs to do before he is brought back up. If they had said that they would keep him down there a week and then make a decision, there wouldn't be any rumors floating around about how DanO doesn't think Kearns is big league material. But the silence just fosters rumors about these things. Because of that you could make up any rumor about why he hasn't been called up and some people might believe it. Now DanO has put himself in the position where he has to address these rumors. If he had said that they had a specific timetable for Austin's return there would be no story. Now DanO is screwed. If he denies the rumors people aren't going to believe him. If he doesn't comment it looks like he's giving credence to the rumors. Even if he calls Austin up today it looks like a kneejerk reaction to this story. This thread is a perfect example why it doesn't matter if Hal's story is true or not. Hal's full of it half the time. But there are people who believe everything that is written. If DanO wants to address the media about the status of Austin's rehab assignment I'm sure they would love to hear it. But the damage has already been done.

Red Leader
05-19-2004, 10:28 AM
Speaking of Blalock and pulling a bit from princeton's post...

Would you trade Kearns for Blalock right now?

You bet I would. We are definately short on infield talent coming up through the minors (not that our OF prospects are great), but I would do this deal. Sure it blocks probably our best position prospect in Edwin Encarnacion, but either he can move to the OF or we can trade him when he puts up serious numbers to acquire an OF to replace Kearns.

GAC
05-19-2004, 10:31 AM
As I said, it doesn't matter if this is true or not, the perception is there that it is true. But one of the reasons I don't think it's true is that if you remember during ST there were rumors that Dunn or Jr. would be traded. But the rumors also said that Kearns was untouchable. I really don't think that he's gone from untouchable to AAA lifer in 2 months in DanO's mind.

EXACTLY Chip! :thumbup:

I can't believe some of the rash conclusions people are coming to over this when it hasn't even been confirmed (except that Hal says). :rolleyes:

gm
05-19-2004, 10:43 AM
When reached for comment, DanO's reaction should be

"I won't dignify that story with a response"

As far as the unnamed player speculating that O'Brien doesn't know how good Kearns is because he's only seen Austin since March, he should've scheduled an appointment with his GM instead of popping off to the press (And during that hypothetical pow-wow, DanO should make it clear who's managing the roster and who should shut his piehole and play ball)

My best "McCoy-like guess" is that Austin is whining to his friends every night via cel phone. Maybe a few more days at AAA will teach Kearns and his buddies a maturity lesson.

GAC
05-19-2004, 10:47 AM
Of course he shouldn't. But the Reds and DanO have not said a word about what Kearns needs to do before he is brought back up. If they had said that they would keep him down there a week and then make a decision, there wouldn't be any rumors floating around about how DanO doesn't think Kearns is big league material. But the silence just fosters rumors about these things. Because of that you could make up any rumor about why he hasn't been called up and some people might believe it. Now DanO has put himself in the position where he has to address these rumors. If he had said that they had a specific timetable for Austin's return there would be no story. Now DanO is screwed. If he denies the rumors people aren't going to believe him. If he doesn't comment it looks like he's giving credence to the rumors. Even if he calls Austin up today it looks like a kneejerk reaction to this story. This thread is a perfect example why it doesn't matter if Hal's story is true or not. Hal's full of it half the time. But there are people who believe everything that is written. If DanO wants to address the media about the status of Austin's rehab assignment I'm sure they would love to hear it. But the damage has already been done.

But O'Brien did Chip. O'Brien stated last Friday, when they activated LaRue, that they will not rush Kearns until they feel he is hitting consistently and is comfortable at the plate. Face it! Kearns was hitting .137 at the time of the injury. O'Brien stated last Friday... "We've told Austin that there is no timetable," O'Brien said. "We want to get him hitting like he's capable of hitting." ... http://reds.enquirer.com/2004/05/13...tes513.rtf.html

Personally, I think this FO wants Kearns back assoon as possible. But they also want him to ready, both emotionally and physically.

If they bring him back today, and he continues to struggle at the ML level, then what do we do? And what will everyone be saying?

Will we all find new ways to criticize this FO again? It seems any decision they make is criticized from every angle. And I don't mind people criticizing this FO because they deserve their share. But when we don't even have all the facts on this situation, then IMO, it's being unfair.

princeton
05-19-2004, 10:50 AM
Speaking of Blalock and pulling a bit from princeton's post...

Would you trade Kearns for Blalock right now?

sure, but I wasn't thinking that anyone's making quite so generous an offer.

the offers are probably more like Blalock's backup, plus some pitchers like RA Dickey who are lacking elbow ligaments

TeamBoone
05-19-2004, 10:59 AM
Wednesday, May 19, 2004
Kearns still stuck with Triple-A Louisville

By John Fay
The Cincinnati Enquirer


Maybe the Reds want to get Austin Kearns enough at-bats to qualify for the International League batting title. Kearns remained on his rehab assignment with Triple-A Louisville Tuesday when the Reds opened their three-game series against the Colorado Rockies.

So Kearns was in right field against Buffalo, and Wily Mo Pena was in right field against Colorado.

The Reds players were surprised that Kearns hasn't been recalled.

"Very surprised," Adam Dunn said. "He is, too. I talked to him. He's feeling great. We need him here. He's not helping us down there."

Kearns has been on the disabled list since April 28 after breaking his left forearm. Since Kearns was struggling at the time of the injury - he was hitting .137 - Reds general manager Dan O'Brien wanted him to find his hitting stroke before he returned to the big leagues.

The numbers say he has. After Louisville's game Tuesday, when he went 0-for-2 with three walks and three runs, Kearns is hitting .357 with two home runs, three doubles and eight RBI in eight games for the Bats. His slugging percentage was .808 and his on-base percentage was .448.

"Going on the DL might have been a blessing in disguise," Dunn said. "He had a lot more going on than people know."

In addition to coming off Aug. 14 shoulder surgery, he was dealing with a pulled oblique muscle.

"He's 100 percent healthy now," Sean Casey said.

Casey was as surprised as Dunn that Kearns wasn't called up.

"We're talking about Austin Kearns," Casey said. "He's one of the best hitters in baseball."

The Colorado series would have seemed like a perfect time to have Kearns, the club's best right-handed power bat, rejoin the club. The Rockies started left-hander Shawn Estes Tuesday night and they're starting Joe Kennedy, another lefty, Thursday.

http://reds.enquirer.com/2004/05/19/red1kearns.html

gm
05-19-2004, 11:09 AM
If they bring him back today, and he continues to struggle at the ML level, then what do we do? And what will everyone be saying?


That was my question, as well. A month ago, the consensus was that Austin's shoulder needed more time to heal and he should be DL'ed, etc. Fans are fickle, and difficult to please even when the ballclub is exceeding their low expectations

MWM
05-19-2004, 11:16 AM
GAC, your logic would almost dictate he never get called up because he MIGHT struggle. I'm not sure making decisions based on what if scenarios is a good philosophy. We know the guy is good enough to hit ML pitching. This whole "build confidence" scenario is shaky, IMO. I don't think he's that weak-minded. The guy just needs ABs at the major league level.

Here's a what-if scenario for you. What if they keep him down there and he continues to light it up for an extened period of time, then they call him up and he struggles. Maybe then Austin begins to wonder if he can really hit major league caliber pitching. I don't believe any of that, but if you want to play what if, we can play what if all day long.

Chip R
05-19-2004, 11:17 AM
But O'Brien did Chip. O'Brien stated last Friday, when they activated LaRue, that they will not rush Kearns until they feel he is hitting consistently and is comfortable at the plate. Face it! Kearns was hitting .137 at the time of the injury. O'Brien stated last Friday... "We've told Austin that there is no timetable," O'Brien said. "We want to get him hitting like he's capable of hitting." ... http://reds.enquirer.com/2004/05/13...tes513.rtf.htmlSo now that he's hitting like he's capable of hitting, why hasn't he been called up yet? You're right, he was hitting poorly when he got hurt. The injury may have been a blessing in disguise. Vague statements like DanO made don't do him any favors. If Kearns was hitting a buck eighty in LOU then there would be no story. DanO could stand by his statement. But it looks like he has fulfilled DanO's criteria and he is still in Buffalo. People want to know why and it's a legitimate question. But DanO is no more forthcoming about this than a magic 8-Ball. I don't mind if DanO is tight lipped on certain things. But you can't be that way all of the time. GAC, you know how in politics how it's important to get your version of the story out there before the other side does. There's no difference in this situation. Instead of getting something definite out there about when Austin is due to return, the media gets stonewalled. So someone who may want DanO to look bad or who wants Austin up here very much makes a remark to Hal that DanO doesn't think Austin is good enough to play up here. Even if it's bull it makes DanO look like a boob.

Dan
05-19-2004, 12:09 PM
Austin is on a rehab assignment, so his clock continues to run. If he'd been optioned down, then it would have stopped running.


Chip, great post about DanO's tight-lippedness. (Hmm, Carl's tight-fisted, Dan's tight-lipped… Can we work John Allen into this matrix?)

Santo, you're dead-on, as always.

nobrainer: tight a--ed

letsgojunior
05-19-2004, 12:58 PM
So now that he's hitting like he's capable of hitting, why hasn't he been called up yet? You're right, he was hitting poorly when he got hurt. The injury may have been a blessing in disguise. Vague statements like DanO made don't do him any favors. If Kearns was hitting a buck eighty in LOU then there would be no story. DanO could stand by his statement. But it looks like he has fulfilled DanO's criteria and he is still in Buffalo. People want to know why and it's a legitimate question. But DanO is no more forthcoming about this than a magic 8-Ball. I don't mind if DanO is tight lipped on certain things. But you can't be that way all of the time. GAC, you know how in politics how it's important to get your version of the story out there before the other side does. There's no difference in this situation. Instead of getting something definite out there about when Austin is due to return, the media gets stonewalled. So someone who may want DanO to look bad or who wants Austin up here very much makes a remark to Hal that DanO doesn't think Austin is good enough to play up here. Even if it's bull it makes DanO look like a boob.

Chip - really great posts on this subject today.

GAC
05-19-2004, 01:46 PM
GAC, your logic would almost dictate he never get called up because he MIGHT struggle.

No Mike. My opinion was based on Kearns getting more than the 28 A/B's that he had gotten. I never said that their decision should be made on a "what if". I threw that question out there, because in my mind I was already seeing the thread titles on this forum if Kearns came back and continued to struggle.

It's called fickled fans :lol:



This whole "build confidence" scenario is shaky, IMO. I don't think he's that weak-minded. The guy just needs ABs at the major league level.

So then you're saying we shouldn't have sent Larson back down last year? ;)


I disagree when it comes to young players. Here is a guy who, yes, has high expectations. But he also has an injury history too. Every time he starts to move forward, what happens? He gets a setback due to injury.

He had major shoulder surgery to end last year. He comes out of the gate struggling badly, and then gets hurt again. If this was a veteran player, then I'd agree that they'd handle it better. But you can't simply discount the fact that it's a possibility, over all that has happened in the last year to present, that it couldn't affect Kearns. His stats to start the season were not impressive at all. And yes, I understand that he was recovering from major surgery (see Casey argument ;) ). Was he going to stay that way? No telling. But then he gets hurt again.

Besides. He got hurt on April 28th (3 weeks ago). The Drs said he could be out up to 6 weeks. It's great that Kearns is coming back faster. But for me, I can understand this mgt. taking some caution, and wanting him to have more time in the minors. He was gonna be back.

GAC
05-19-2004, 01:50 PM
So now that he's hitting like he's capable of hitting, why hasn't he been called up yet?

See above response to MWM. :mhcky21:

sig
05-19-2004, 05:26 PM
If I were the Reds I'd trade Kearns for Blalock. I doubt the Rangers would do this. The Rangers just signed Hank to a pretty friendly contract plus right now he is clearly a better player. Not that Kearns won't be better down the road but he is not better now.