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Lance McAlister
07-06-2004, 03:12 PM
CANCELLATION: At the request of Barry Larkin, the Reds have cancelled his retirement ceremony scheduled for October 2..."Right now, I would like to leave my options as a player open for 2005," Larkin said...recently named to his 12th All-Star team, Larkin is in his 19th season with the Reds and ranks among the franchise's all-time leaders in every statistical category...Reds chief operating officer John Allen said, "Barry has made it known to us that, at this time, he is not committed to retiring after this season and feels any kind of ceremony would be inappropriate. We respect his decision."

Chip R
07-06-2004, 03:15 PM
Interesting. If he does decide to retire, though, I would hope that they honor him early next season.

princeton
07-06-2004, 03:16 PM
:thumbup:

RedLegsToday
07-06-2004, 03:16 PM
This is actually a bit disappointing. An All-star berth and a healthy final season for Larkin is a nice way to go out.

TRF
07-06-2004, 03:18 PM
Next year would be a great mentoring year for him as a super sub. If only there were a SS in the organization for him to mentor.

Lance McAlister
07-06-2004, 03:20 PM
Would you assume this would cost them Castro next year?
Either from a lack of fund standpoint or Juan wanting a chance to start?

smith288
07-06-2004, 03:20 PM
Larkin will regret it if he doesnt retire. ALWAYS leave when you are in the twilight of your career and still able. Otherwise he looks like a person trying to hold onto a crazed cat. Eventually, you will look like a boob and the last thing they remember of you was your pathetic attempts to hold onto something too long.

Eric_Davis
07-06-2004, 03:24 PM
Well, he earned it.

There just aren't any shortstops in the National League doing well this year.

A really poor year for SS's in the NL.

Maybe they can change the day to the Marge Schott appreciation Day.

Eric_Davis
07-06-2004, 03:26 PM
He's still as good a #2 hitter as there is.

traderumor
07-06-2004, 03:26 PM
Nice move on his part to cancel instead of doing a Clemens and umpteen other guys who have the big shindig on their day and then come back and play. And they never give back the retirement gifts....

So maybe this will give Joe the same idea? :p:

Edskin
07-06-2004, 03:27 PM
Reds 2011 opening day line-up:

Jose Gonzalez 2B
Eddie Johnson CF
Edwin Encarnacion 3B
John Phillips RF
Victor Hernandez C
Jung Seop-Yu LF
Bubba Jackson 1B
Barry Larkin SS

Chip R
07-06-2004, 03:27 PM
Would you assume this would cost them Castro next year?
Either from a lack of fund standpoint or Juan wanting a chance to start?
Not necessarily. I think they could sign both. Larkin probably won't be asking for much more than he's getting this year. I just hope that the Reds handle it right this time and not wait till the last minute to make a decision.

As for Castro, I doubt that there are going to be a lot of teams out there looking for him to start at SS for them. Also, from all indications, Juan likes it here and might want to stay on. He may be in the mix to start at 3rd if Barry sticks around.

I wonder if Barry announced this before Jack made his decision on bringing Barry to the ASG if Jack still would have selected him? :mhcky21:

GoReds
07-06-2004, 03:29 PM
Would you assume this would cost them Castro next year?
Either from a lack of fund standpoint or Juan wanting a chance to start?

I think Juan will be with the Reds next year, particularly if EdE doesn't lay claim to 3B for the next several years.

Juan would be good insurance to have for Barry and the question mark at third, provided the salary is agreeable. Don't see any reason why it shouldn't be.

westofyou
07-06-2004, 03:33 PM
I doubt that there are going to be a lot of teams out there looking for him to start at SS for them.

Really?

Let me ask Mr Grande....

TRF
07-06-2004, 03:34 PM
i have entered the twilight zone.

people are wondering if we can keep Castro? I love his D, but he is a supersub, spot starting, late inning defensive substitution for anyone. Even the Reds.

If Ed. E makes the club as the starting 3B next year, sub duties can go to Freel, Hummel or even Olmedo. Lopez will be the likely starter or a wierd righty/righty platoon with the captain barring a trade. I wonder if Ed E. can play SS?

Lance McAlister
07-06-2004, 03:36 PM
Why would Juan want to parlay his career year into being insurance for Barry?

jmcclain19
07-06-2004, 03:38 PM
How about D'Angelo at SS next year. He's been lights out all season at 2B, and shown that he could indeed handle SS. I don't know what the reasons where in the minors that he was switched over, but it could have been mental, he seemed to have some baggage when he was younger.

Then let the Reds worry about plugging in a 2B, which is easier than a SS, IMO.

Doc. Scott
07-06-2004, 03:38 PM
Why did Larkin wait to announce this until Jack McKeon gave him his retirement gift, do you think? Or do you not view it that way?

REDREAD
07-06-2004, 03:39 PM
I don't think most people remember stars for their last year (if it was a bad year).
Nolan Ryan had an almost 5.00 ERA in his last season. No one remembers that.
I have a hard time remembering the teams Steve Charlton bounced around.
Few remember that Frank Viola played with the Reds in his twilight years.

Barry is obviously playing at a high level this year. I see nothing wrong with
him coming back next year, particularly given the derth of talent at SS in this
organization. And if he does have a bad year in 2005, it wouldn't change
the great memories I have of him. More power to him.

And it's nice to see John Allen is at least being graceful publicly about it
this time. It might be really burning him up in reality, but at least he's acting
accomodating.

Chip R
07-06-2004, 03:40 PM
Why would Juan want to parlay his career year into being insurance for Barry?You actually think there are going to be teams beating down his door throwing money at him to be their starting SS?

westofyou
07-06-2004, 03:40 PM
Why would Juan want to parlay his career year into being insurance for Barry?

Juans career has been being "insurance" that's his role and given more than 300 ab's a season one can see why.

15fan
07-06-2004, 03:41 PM
Nolan Ryan was an all-star at 42. At age 44, he logged 157.1 innings with a 3.79 ERA.

At age 42, Rickey Henderson's wheels were still good enough to swipe 25 bags in 32 attempts.

At age 40, Randy Johnson is leading the majors with 139 Ks. Roger Clemens, who turns 42 in less than a month, is 4th with 113 punchouts.

Occasionally, someone comes along & breaks the mold. Barry is one of those rare birds.

And without any heir apparent in the system, he's as good an option as any other to trot out to short on Opening Day 2005.

I say keep on keepin on.

TRF
07-06-2004, 03:42 PM
I doubt it is bothering Allen. Larkin will make about the same as he did this year. He's probably more worried about Graves and Casey's bump for next season, and impnding raises for Dunn, LaRue, Jimenez & WMP. The million they'll give to Larkin is peanuts for his production if he can maintain it through the rest of this season.

Edskin
07-06-2004, 03:44 PM
15-- the difference between Larkin and the other guys you mentioned is health. Those other players have generally stayed in the line-up from year to year. Barry is so unreliable in the injury-dept. right now. I feel like his tendons and muscles are all going to snap simultaneously one of these days. Considering our black hole at SS, and considering he's my all-time favorite Red, I would enjoy seeing him out there.

But I do fear that his return gives the FO yet another reason to delay finding a SS for the future.

Puffy
07-06-2004, 03:46 PM
I doubt it is bothering Allen. Larkin will make about the same as he did this year. He's probably more worried about Graves and Casey's bump for next season, and impnding raises for Dunn, LaRue, Jimenez & WMP. The million they'll give to Larkin is peanuts for his production if he can maintain it through the rest of this season.

And besides that, everyone knows that Barry wants to finish his career as a Red, and I'm sure Larkin said I'd like to come back next year to Allen when he asked him to cancel the "day" and Allen must have said we want you back as well. So I'm sure Allen already knows what it will cost to bring Barry back and is OK with it.

And I'm all for him coming back, as the Reds are a much better team this year with Barry in the lineup. He is as indispensible as anyone after the big three (Griffey, Casey and Dunn).

Eric_Davis
07-06-2004, 03:51 PM
Another year of Larkin would be very valuable for the team, as long as they have someone who can play the other 60 games at a decent level.

M2
07-06-2004, 04:05 PM
As I've mentioned elsewhere, what Larkin's doing -- playing SS everyday at age 40 - has only been done by three others in history, Honus Wagner, Luke Appling and Ozzie Smith (and Ozzie barely qualifies on the everyday count).

It's impossible to benchmark him. What can he do? How long can he continue his current performance?

The Reds don't have a replacement for him. They'd need to go out and find one if he retired (something he never committed to in the first place). As long as he's willing to play for something like his current contract, I don't see the problem with taking the chance that he can milk another year out of his talent.

If he finally hits the wall, then that will be the end. Yet he could also go on an Applingesque run the next two years, helping the team and cementing his legend in the process. I've always been of the opinion that you have to allow the greats a chance at greatness. Only they can define it.

Larkin coming back could be a mistake or it could be one of the coolest things we ever get to see in the game of baseball. Time will tell and, personally, I'm looking forward to discovering the answer.

BrooklynRedz
07-06-2004, 04:10 PM
I've heard talk of the Reds bringing Larkin back as a player/coach next season. Talk to anyone with access to the Reds' clubhouse and they'll tell you that Barry is the heart of this team. O'Brien has acknowledged the intent to return the organization to the days when there was a Reds-way to do things. They even brought back Oester for good measure. I think bringing back Larkin as a player/coach would be a brilliant, forward-thinking move for an organization not known for such recently.

Raisor
07-06-2004, 04:17 PM
He's still as good a #2 hitter as there is.

I HEART Barry Larkin as much as the next guy, but let's not get all crazy and everything.

100+Plate Appearances at the #2 slot in the order, Larkin ranks 21st in RC/27 (which equalizes PA's).

LvJ
07-06-2004, 04:18 PM
I'm happy. If he feels he can still continue and play at a solid - to - good level, like he is this season, then more power to him! He certainly deserves it. There is absolutely no one here who should, or has the right to tell, or suggest Barry to retire. It's his decesion, and he's done the right thing leaving it open. Sure, he hasn't been 100% healthy this season - but neither has Casey, Kearns, Griffey, LaRue, Larson, etc. .. - half our team. I appluad Larkin.

Raisor
07-06-2004, 04:21 PM
By the way, if the choice actually does come down to keeping Larkin or Castro, I'd keep Larkin in a heartbeat.

Tools of Ignorance
07-06-2004, 04:34 PM
Just my take:

Career Stats:

HR: 194
RBI: 947
SB: 379
BB: 926

Make that 200, 1000, 400, and 1000 and I think it will be a major push for a HOF bid. Motivation?

M2
07-06-2004, 04:41 PM
Just my take:

Career Stats:

HR: 194
RBI: 947
SB: 379
BB: 926

Make that 200, 1000, 400, and 1000 and I think it will be a major push for a HOF bid. Motivation?

Yup, and plenty of it. Also within his grasp if he can play the rest of this year and all next like he has the first half of 2004 is 2,500 hits (he's 16 away from tying Concepcion, btw).

cReds1
07-06-2004, 04:57 PM
Well, he earned it.

There just aren't any shortstops in the National League doing well this year.

A really poor year for SS's in the NL.

Maybe they can change the day to the Marge Schott appreciation Day.


I don't know if you consider Wilson, Cruz, Clayton (doing better than Larkin) and Izturis doing about equal as doing well this year or not than I don't know what to say. Many others are right behind him or doing better in other categories and they have played more games than him.

Phhhl
07-06-2004, 05:03 PM
I think the toughest of those numbers for Barry to get would be 400 steals. There is no reason for him to retire if he continues to play the way he has, however. He obviously still loves to play, and could be a valuable utility player next year.

Barbarossa
07-06-2004, 05:08 PM
I always feel better with Larkin in the lineup batting second. Anyone know what the Reds record is with Larkin at short? Just seems like we do better when he's in there. :GAC:

Redsland
07-06-2004, 05:12 PM
This news is the exact opposite of shocking.

But for all the reasons stated, it's probably good news for Barry and the organization.

And I agree that it was classy of Barry to cancel the goodbye party ahead of time.

I wonder how big a deal the press would have made of it if he'd made this announcement at the All-Star Game instead of today.

REDREAD
07-06-2004, 05:13 PM
I doubt it is bothering Allen. Larkin will make about the same as he did this year. .\

Well, it certainly bothered both Allen and Lindner last fall. They had to get their arm twisted by Reik to get it done. Somehow, I doubt their feelings for barry have changed one bit. The issue goes beyond money, even though it shouldn't.

My speculation is that Allen and Lindner can't wait to get the outspoken captain out of there. I think it's wrong. Actions speak much louder than words.

For example, soon after (if not right after) Barry signed for 2004, he said he wouldn't rule out playing in 2005. .. Yet Allen went ahead and scheduled his retirement day anyway.

And maybe Barry waited until now to ask for the cancelation of his day because he KNEW Allen didn't want to cancel it. Now with Barry on the AS team, Allen would look pretty stupid not to go along with it.

That said, it's nice to see Allen (at least publicly) handle it with grace this time.

Redsland
07-06-2004, 05:14 PM
I agree on all counts, REDREAD.

Sweetstop
07-06-2004, 05:20 PM
Why did Larkin wait to announce this until Jack McKeon gave him his retirement gift, do you think? Or do you not view it that way?

I definitely don't view it that way. I think he's doing it now because he doesn't want MLB to throw his retirement party at the All-Star game when he is considering coming back next year. In other words Barry's being thoughtful.

I hope he does come back if things go well the rest of this season. An amazing athlete!

FrenchD1
07-06-2004, 05:22 PM
I really hope they make him a player/coach for next year. If they do something like that then i'm absolutely thrilled!

traderumor
07-06-2004, 05:27 PM
\

Well, it certainly bothered both Allen and Lindner last fall. They had to get their arm twisted by Reik to get it done. Somehow, I doubt their feelings for barry have changed one bit. The issue goes beyond money, even though it shouldn't.

My speculation is that Allen and Lindner can't wait to get the outspoken captain out of there. I think it's wrong. Actions speak much louder than words.

For example, soon after (if not right after) Barry signed for 2004, he said he wouldn't rule out playing in 2005. .. Yet Allen went ahead and scheduled his retirement day anyway.

And maybe Barry waited until now to ask for the cancelation of his day because he KNEW Allen didn't want to cancel it. Now with Barry on the AS team, Allen would look pretty stupid not to go along with it.

That said, it's nice to see Allen (at least publicly) handle it with grace this time.
Look!!! Over on the grassy knoll....It's John Allen

IslandRed
07-06-2004, 05:28 PM
Larkin will regret it if he doesnt retire. ALWAYS leave when you are in the twilight of your career and still able. Otherwise he looks like a person trying to hold onto a crazed cat. Eventually, you will look like a boob and the last thing they remember of you was your pathetic attempts to hold onto something too long.

We might regret seeing Larkin as a shell of his former self at the time, but as soon as he hangs 'em up, we'll forget all that, just as the fact that Michael Jordan ever suited up for the Washington Wizards is already vanishing from our collective memory.

Babe Ruth. Willie Mays. Henry Aaron. Etc. Etc. Most of the game's greats hung on past the point of being great, or even good. Johnny Bench's last three years were spent as a mediocre corner infielder. In the hindsight of history, who really cares? Some people are able to step away on a high note, others will hang on until they can't find anyone willing to give them a uniform to wear, and it really doesn't make any difference in the end. Whatever Barry wants to do is fine with me. (Which is not the same as saying the Reds have an obligation to accommodate him.)

Reds1
07-06-2004, 05:59 PM
At 1st I was upset as I was going to the game in hopes of seeing his last 2 games ever which I probably won't do next season, but I love Barry and having him around is not a bad thing and I can't blame him seeing what he is doing and the lack of SS to start he sees an opportunity to make sure he makes the HOF which I think at this point is a big deal to him. The player/coach idea is interesting, but I don't think they will do that.

CbusRed
07-06-2004, 06:42 PM
This news has absolutley made my day... :biglaugh:

Super_Barry11
07-06-2004, 06:56 PM
:jump: :larkin: :jump:

Wow, first I meet him, then he's named to the All-Star team, and then this announcement is made!! My plan to take over the world seems to be working quite well.... :evil: :MandJ: :p:

CbusRed
07-06-2004, 07:02 PM
I would love to meet Larkin, unfortunatley, the only players I ever met were Rob Dibble, and Tom Browning, not that they were bad players or anything, it just that I was so young I can barely remember it!

:)

Matt700wlw
07-06-2004, 07:04 PM
I have no problem if Larkin wants to come back again....he's still our best option at SS

It wouldn't have to cost us Castro, he can be our 3rd baseman until EE is ready and by that time, Larkin will most likely be retired and then Castro can be the shortstop, assuming he stays healthy.

It shouldn't cost us Castro money-wise either because the increased attendence should lead to increased revenues (according to John Allen), which should allow an increased payroll (according to John Allen), not to mention, the payroll flexibility that the Reds now have (according to John Allen) after last season's salary dump.

2001MUgrad
07-06-2004, 07:04 PM
Reds 2011 opening day line-up:

Jose Gonzalez 2B
Eddie Johnson CF
Edwin Encarnacion 3B
John Phillips RF
Victor Hernandez C
Jung Seop-Yu LF
Bubba Jackson 1B
Barry Larkin SS

LOL.. Good one Ed!!!

:GAC:

Edskin
07-06-2004, 07:10 PM
Like 45 posts later....someone got it! :lol:

dman
07-06-2004, 07:26 PM
Larkin will regret it if he doesnt retire. ALWAYS leave when you are in the twilight of your career and still able. Otherwise he looks like a person trying to hold onto a crazed cat. Eventually, you will look like a boob and the last thing they remember of you was your pathetic attempts to hold onto something too long.



Barry, PLEASE don't go pulling any Rickey Henderson kind of stunts. Cincinnati loves ya bud, but when it's time to hang it up, it's time to hang it up.

Raisor
07-06-2004, 07:27 PM
Please not another multi-year deal for Castro. If another team wants to give him one, let him walk. Please, with sugar on top?

CbusRed
07-06-2004, 07:31 PM
Im against losing castro, I see castro as our third basemen of NOW.
You cant ask for better defensive performance, and his offense has blossomed. Im am ready to give up on Larson.

HermW
07-06-2004, 07:44 PM
As I've mentioned elsewhere, what Larkin's doing -- playing SS everyday at age 40 - has only been done by three others in history, Honus Wagner, Luke Appling and Ozzie Smith (and Ozzie barely qualifies on the everyday count).

It's impossible to benchmark him. What can he do? How long can he continue his current performance?

The Reds don't have a replacement for him. They'd need to go out and find one if he retired (something he never committed to in the first place). As long as he's willing to play for something like his current contract, I don't see the problem with taking the chance that he can milk another year out of his talent.

If he finally hits the wall, then that will be the end. Yet he could also go on an Applingesque run the next two years, helping the team and cementing his legend in the process. I've always been of the opinion that you have to allow the greats a chance at greatness. Only they can define it.

Larkin coming back could be a mistake or it could be one of the coolest things we ever get to see in the game of baseball. Time will tell and, personally, I'm looking forward to discovering the answer.

Great post, M2 and my sentiments exactly, except that I don't think it really could be a "mistake" either for him or the Reds unless they pay him too much money.

I love to see the greats go down with a fight like some that were mentioned above, like Jimmy Connors, and others. I much prefer that to seeing the Sanders, the Jordans, and the Borgs quitting while they still have so much to give and show.

If Barry's star is diminished by coming back in any eye, then that is a problem with the observer and not the player.

With Barry, I think what this year has shown is how much his injuries have held him back over the last 5 or 6 years. If he stays healthy, I think he could easily have 2 or 3 more years left in him.

Raisor
07-06-2004, 07:46 PM
Im against losing castro, I see castro as our third basemen of NOW.
You cant ask for better defensive performance, and his offense has blossomed. .

"Bolssomed"?

32 year old players with career OPSes an eyelash over .600 don't "blossom". They have career years. Last year everyone was saying how much Castro had improved at the plate. He still got on base less then 30% (290 OBP)of the time, in his "career year". He's at .330 OBP this year, which is so far over his career norms, that I'd be looking to put the Vodoo Priest that put the spell on his bat on the payroll for the rest of the team.

guernsey
07-06-2004, 09:49 PM
Actually the FO ought to love this move by Larkin. His retirement game has to be about sold out, and now whenever he does it for real, another game will sell out. Two sold out games are better than one anytime.

Eric_Davis
07-06-2004, 09:52 PM
Why did Larkin wait to announce this until Jack McKeon gave him his retirement gift, do you think? Or do you not view it that way?

I thought it was a retirement gift, too. Then I looked up all the other National League shortstops and he's had the second best season next to Jack Wilson. He earned this All-Star appearance.

Oxilon
07-06-2004, 09:58 PM
On the topic of Larkin's replacement...we could potentially find ourselves in a good position, IF the FO cooperates.

Edwin Encarnacion can play either 3B or SS. So, he could end up being our future SS. But that would leave a whole at 3B, right?

Well, Troy Glaus (okay, no real shot) and Corey Koskie (definitely a possibility) are FAs at the end of the season. I don't see why we can't sign either of them to play 3rd, have Larkin play SS meanwhile let Encarnacion get more grooming in AAA next season. What do y'all think about that?

Chip R
07-06-2004, 10:16 PM
Actually the FO ought to love this move by Larkin. His retirement game has to be about sold out, and now whenever he does it for real, another game will sell out. Two sold out games are better than one anytime.
Quit throwing cold water on the conspiracy theories, guernsey. ;)

Raisor
07-06-2004, 11:01 PM
I thought it was a retirement gift, too. Then I looked up all the other National League shortstops and he's had the second best season next to Jack Wilson. He earned this All-Star appearance.

Which stats did you use?

Runs Created, Larkin ranks 11th
RC/27, Larkin ranks 9th

OBP, Larkin ranks 5th
SLG, Larkin ranks 4th
OPS, Larkin ranks 3rd (After Wilson and Royce Clayton(!))

It was a retirement gift, which I have ZERO problem with. He's earned it for his career.

Bowden's Ghost
07-06-2004, 11:05 PM
We have just witnessed John Allen's worst nightmare:
I just hope, no i PRAY, that if Barry decides to play another year he and the Reds front-office boneheads hammer out a contract extension beforehand. I cant bear the thought of another year of Barry bellyaching about not being appreciated and going elsewhere, and John Allen's lousy PR skills displayed all over the place. And i am a HUGE Barry fan, all the way back to the middle infield wars with Kurt Stillwell. But this happens every year, and if both parties havent figured out a better way to handle this they should be forced to wear baby diapers when they appear in public.

Matt700wlw
07-06-2004, 11:07 PM
I think he earned it regardless if he retires or not....stats don't tell the whole story

He should be comeback player of the year...

Raisor
07-06-2004, 11:08 PM
I think he earned it regardless if he retires or not....stats don't tell the whole story

He should be comeback player of the year...

He's not even comeback player of the year for the Reds, that would be either Casey or that guy that plays CF.

Matt700wlw
07-06-2004, 11:11 PM
He's not even comeback player of the year for the Reds, that would be either Casey or that guy that plays CF.

I can see the debate there, moreso with Griffey just because most people pretty much thought he was done (not the REAL fans, of course).

Raisor
07-06-2004, 11:20 PM
I can see the debate there, moreso with Griffey just because most people pretty much thought he was done (not the REAL fans, of course).

Casey was the 114th best (using RC/27) offensive player in the majors last year. He's jumped up to 11 for this year. He is SO the comeback player of the year.

FrenchD1
07-06-2004, 11:46 PM
I think I heard the Reds will give refunds for that Barry Larkin Day game.

Also, if Barry plays one more year with the Reds he'll break the record for most seasons with the Reds, which he is currently tied w/ Pete and Concepcion for (Not positive, but pretty sure this is true). Plus he may also pass some other Reds records by playing one more year with them.

westofyou
07-06-2004, 11:50 PM
I think I heard the Reds will give refunds for that Barry Larkin Day game.

Also, if Barry plays one more year with the Reds he'll break the record for most seasons with the Reds, which he is currently tied w/ Pete and Concepcion for (Not positive, but pretty sure this is true). Plus he may also pass some other Reds records by playing one more year with them.

Bid McPhee and Concepcion

Unassisted
07-07-2004, 12:04 AM
I think I heard the Reds will give refunds for that Barry Larkin Day game.IMHO, it would be better if they'd just change the occasion to "Danny Graves Retirement Day." :mhcky21:

LINEDRIVER
07-07-2004, 12:24 AM
Why dont they just change it to 'Davey Concepcion's #13 Number Retirement Party'?

Big Klu
07-07-2004, 12:27 AM
Why dont they just change it to 'Davey Concepcion's #13 Number Retirement Party'?

Now that's the best idea I've heard all day!

remdog
07-07-2004, 12:33 AM
I'm thrilled that Barry is looking at coming back next year. I've pushed the idea since ST. Now, I just hope that injuries or a poor performance in the second half don't ruin the party.

And I don't think that this is, as some have suggested, John Allen's worst nightmare. Barry will play for about the same salary as this year. A Reds Star will return for another year. Fans will come to see him strive to break (team) records. Mom & Dad can take the kids to see, for one last time, the greatest SS ever to wear the 'Wishbone C'. All good things from John Allen's perspective.

As Redread said, it's nice to see Allen handling this well. But, it's also important to note that Barry is handling it well also. This quiet, subtle approach seems to have circumvented any public posturing between the two and, IMO, that was the biggest problem last year.

And, after all, who's to say that Barry won't out-Luke Appling, Luke Appling? Until ya' try it, there's just no way to know. :)

Thanks, Barry!

Rem

remdog
07-07-2004, 12:35 AM
Excellent idea, BB!

Rem

Shaggy Sanchez
07-07-2004, 12:42 AM
The only thing I am curious to see is if Barry decides to come back how much money he will be asking for. You have to remember he is an "ICON" in Cincinnati and he needs to be treated like such so that on top of the fact that he is having a solid year and staying healthy I just wonder how much he will want.

If he wants anymore than what we are paying him this year (and I think he will) I say go try to find it elsewhere.

Larkin Fan
07-07-2004, 12:45 AM
I think this is absolutely wonderful news. Made my day. :thumbup:

Eric_Davis
07-07-2004, 02:07 AM
Which stats did you use?

Runs Created, Larkin ranks 11th
RC/27, Larkin ranks 9th

OBP, Larkin ranks 5th
SLG, Larkin ranks 4th
OPS, Larkin ranks 3rd (After Wilson and Royce Clayton(!))

It was a retirement gift, which I have ZERO problem with. He's earned it for his career.

I find the Sagarin ratings to be the most accurate, plus Larkin adds intangibles that Clayton and others could only dream of that ends up producing wins.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/nlb04.htm

BoydsOfSummer
07-07-2004, 03:42 PM
Anybody know where I can find the league average rc/27 for every year? With all my toys and reference sources I can't find it anywhere. Guess I could figure it out myself,but that would require effort.

REDREAD
07-08-2004, 08:39 AM
Look!!! Over on the grassy knoll....It's John Allen

Well, last year when it looked like a contract was not going to happen for Lark, Lindner said "Things went well".

If you think Allen wanted Lark back, you are the one that's delusional.
It's obvious Allen has wanted to get rid of Lark for a long time. Just like
it was obvious Allen wanted to get rid of Bowden for a long time.

The Reds made every effort to push Lark out last year. They also made every
effort to make him want to leave 4 years ago. Remember the "atmosphere of negativity", remember Allen flying to Detroit to tell Lark there was no chance of the Reds resigning him.

I'm not sure why Allen wants Lark gone, but Larkin openly questioning the Reds FO's desire to win probably has a lot to do with it. My guess is that Allen wants only people that parrot his company line.

REDREAD
07-08-2004, 08:42 AM
Actually the FO ought to love this move by Larkin. His retirement game has to be about sold out, and now whenever he does it for real, another game will sell out. Two sold out games are better than one anytime.

the Reds are offering the fans a refund or exchange on tickets for the former "barry larkin retirement" game, just FYI. Actually, that was a nice move by Allen to do that.