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View Full Version : Nuxhall being FORCED out -- Channel 5 Reporting



Matt700wlw
08-04-2004, 05:41 PM
Reported by Channel 5 in an interview, Joe said he feels he is being forced out by someone in the organization, but says it's NOT John Allen

I think more is coming at 6:00

Chip R
08-04-2004, 05:51 PM
Well, if it isn't John Allen, who the heck could it be? If Allen is the guy who hires and fires these announcers, unless it's one of the owners, I can't fathom who it could be.

PuffyPig
08-04-2004, 06:05 PM
If Joe won't leave voluntarily, he needs to be forced out.

It happens everyday. Joe needs to go.

Bob Borkowski
08-04-2004, 06:09 PM
Channel 5 suggested at the end of the piece that Carl Lindner is the one.

This did not come from a comment from Joe.

RedFanAlways1966
08-04-2004, 06:10 PM
I never thought that a MLB announcer's job was like a Supreme Court appointee.

Hey, Joe... your job is like mine and 99.9% of the U.S. population. There is no guarantee.

Joe... please do not go out like this. I have grown up w/ you and Marty and think the world of both of you as announcers. Joe... do not do it like this. Please, Joe!

Bob Borkowski
08-04-2004, 06:13 PM
He said he understands that he has been replaced in the booth and he abides by that decision.

However, he said he would be receptive to a job on the Speakers Bureau, for example. and he would be happy to do play by play on a dozen or so games next year.

Unassisted
08-04-2004, 06:14 PM
Having the ancient Mr. Lindner pull the strings provides plausible deniability on age being a factor in the forced retirement.

Matt700wlw
08-04-2004, 06:25 PM
Joe doesn't want to do a full season anymore....part time -- what is wrong with that? Don't do this to him

If Carl Lindner (which Tommy Helms suggests in the piece) is forcing him out, then he should be forced out

This is an absolute, classless move in my opinion


Those who feel Joe should retire -- should Barry Larkin retire to? It's a personal decision, not a club decision

Redsfanao
08-04-2004, 06:44 PM
Perhaps he's being forced out for monetary reasons. That seems to be the reason for everything that happens with this team. I'm sure Steve is cheaper :thumbdn: It really is a shame to treat him this way with all the years he's been in the Reds organization.

Also, with the addition of Steve Stewart, I've come to appreciate Joe even more. He just has such a warm personality and aura about him makes him enjoyable to listen to. No that I see what the booth is like without him, I realize I've taken him for granted.

RANDY IN INDY
08-04-2004, 06:49 PM
Another reason for longtime Reds fans to have a problem with this organization.

UKFlounder
08-04-2004, 06:53 PM
But just because Joe feels he's being forced out doesn't mean its true. I'm not calling him a liar, but perhaps he sees the end coming very soon and is starting to regret it.

Whatever is happening, however, I've always liked Marty and Joe and will be sad to see that duo end, but all good things must come to an end sometime, and I think it's probably time for the Reds' broadcast to move on.

iammrred
08-04-2004, 06:57 PM
Perhaps Marty wanted him gone... ;) :evil:

westofyou
08-04-2004, 06:58 PM
Maybe, just maybe... they don't want to drag it out? ala Harry?

Hoosier Red
08-04-2004, 07:00 PM
YEAH!!! EVERYONE RUN OFF WITH A BASELESS RUMOR!! WOO HOO!!

The reds are forcing Nuxie to retire because Steve Stewarts' cheaper. That must be it, or are they forcing him out because Lindner remembers his 60th birthday watching this young fella Nuxhall take the field. Now seeing Nuxhall makes Lindner feel old, I think that's what it is.

Or is it that everyone agreed that Nuxhall would do 60 games this year and retire next year. Except Joe wanted to do more games this year, so they said fine, and Nuxhall has done more games.

Now to be fair I didn't watch the Channel 5 piece,

Did anyone say he couldn't do anymore games next year? My guess is if he approached the Reds when next season's schedule came out and came up with a list of 12-24 games he would like to do, they would be receptive.
This is all because Tommy Helms is saying the Reds are forcing out Nuxhall. Can we please get someone more plugged in than the guy who was last employed with the Reds when Pete Rose managed?

Reds4Life
08-04-2004, 07:04 PM
I don't think I buy the story that Lindner is forcing him out. Carl is big on tradition, and has shown in the past his preference to hire those with ties to Cincinnati and the Reds whenever he can. I don't see him forcing Nuxhall out.

Chip R
08-04-2004, 07:32 PM
I saw the interview and Nux basically was asked if he felt the Reds were forcing him out and he said he felt they were. And we've been hearing rumors about this almost as soon as Steve Stewart was hired. Joe was very emotional about this when he was being interviewed. Maybe Joe is pulling a bit of a power play of his own here and is using his popularity with the fans to force the Reds to keep him on longer than originally planned. Or maybe his advancing age has confused him somewhat and he thinks the Reds are out to get him. Or perhaps "forcing him out" is an exaggeration. Maybe the Reds feel that even a limited schedule is tougher on Joe health-wise than a PR job with the Reds would be. They may think they are doing him a favor and are trying to keep him with us and his family for as long as possible. Of course Joe is a big boy and if he thinks he can keep going, it's his decision.

schroomytunes
08-04-2004, 07:38 PM
Man, I'll tell you what, growing up in Cincy I used to listen to Joe and Marty all the time when the Reds were not on TV. I even met the man on numerous occasions while working for his son for 6 years, he is and always will be a class act. I loved hearing him get excited on the air when someone knocked one out, and Marty's "and this one belongs to the Reds" I will miss having him be a part of the Reds.

Matt700wlw
08-04-2004, 07:39 PM
Joe also said a few years ago he considered retiring because of health reasons, but feels better now, and he looks better now

I think he sounds better this year, with the limited schedule than he has in years.....if Uncle Carl is forcing him out, this is not the way to handle this situation

Joe has been here longer than anybody in this organization (except for maybe Mr. Stowe) and he should pretty much be able to do whatever he wants..it's not like he said he wants to stay on full time, just 15-20 games next year....what's wrong with that?

IF Carl really did force him out...he should be ashamed of himself

CrackerJack
08-04-2004, 07:40 PM
Sounds like Allen needs to clear things up and communicate publicly - not exactly a strong point for him.

Which is why he should be removed from his current position among other things.

RosieRed
08-04-2004, 07:41 PM
Regardless of what's going on with Joe's retirement, I am going to miss him like crazy when he does retire. I know his tenure has to end eventually, but regardless of when or how the end comes, it's going to be a sad day for me.

Matt700wlw
08-04-2004, 07:45 PM
In the story on channel 5, they tried to get comment from Carl Lindner and a Lindner spokeswoman for Lindner said that he would have nothing to say about the issue because Jon Allen is the spokesman for the team

For once, I will actually stand up for John Allen....he wasn't the one who did this....he shouldn't have to say anything

westofyou
08-04-2004, 07:48 PM
For once, I will actually stand up for John Allen....he wasn't the one who did this....he shouldn't have to say anything

Been out in the business world long Matt?

Matt700wlw
08-04-2004, 07:51 PM
Been out in the business world long Matt?


This seems more personal than business -- but regardless, somebody needs to say something to clear things up a bit

airalex
08-04-2004, 08:11 PM
Remember when the Tigers tried to force out Ernie Harwell.

flyer85
08-04-2004, 08:13 PM
Remember when the Tigers tried to force out Ernie Harwell.

It was Bo Schembechler.

WVRedsFan
08-04-2004, 08:13 PM
This reeks of what happened at West Virginia University a few years ago. Jack Fleming had been the voice of the Mountaineers for over 40 years and, like Joe with the Reds, was an icon to fans. Jack had some health problems (a few mini-srokes), but had come back to do some basketball games. To most people, he seemed to be fine.

Then over the summer he was relieved of his duties and he didn't want to go. He had given his life to the University and earlier had been released from the Steeler's network for a younger man.

The same old stories came out. Jack was losing it. Jack was sick. Jack didn't have it anymore. They offered him a web position (for a guy who hadn't turned on a computer in his life). The same debate came up here. Younger folks thought Jack should just go away, not having the knack for tradition. Others raised holy heck. It did no good. Jack lived about 8 years doing that web page...and was very unhappy.

I certainly hope the Reds don't deal this hand to Joe. When you give the majority of your life to something, you deserve fair treatment.

And just because business does it, that doesn't mean it's right!

airalex
08-04-2004, 08:15 PM
It was Bo Schembechler.
Yet another reason to hate him.

RFS62
08-04-2004, 08:18 PM
Geez, I hope this doesn't bring down the wrath of RedsZone on me, but to compare Ernie Harwell to Joe Nuxhall, at any point in their respective careers, is beyond apples to oranges.

I love Joe, but his ability level at this stage of his career isn't quite the same as Ernie's was at the time Bo tried to move him out.

writerdan33
08-04-2004, 08:19 PM
When Detroit forced Ernie Harwell out a few years back, and he went public about it, the Tiger fans went nuts. Detroit management caved and Harwell was back after a year.

If Joe feels that way, and is indeed taking his case to the public court, it will be interesting to see how the fans react and, then, what Reds management does.

If past history with Uncle Carl (see Larkin, Barry) is any indicator, enough fan outrage and Joe will be back in the mix.

Personally, I hope he gets to hang around and go out on his own terms.

flyer85
08-04-2004, 08:22 PM
Just makes a lot of mistake these days but he is a familiar voice. Stewart certainly isn't an improvement.

Joe fits in nicely with an error prone team. Let him stay.

johngalt
08-04-2004, 08:23 PM
Marty and Joe have been a great tandem for a long time and Joe certainly has a special place in Reds history, but it's been time for him to move on for a while now. Simply put, Nuxhall is not a very good announcer at this point. He has trouble following the action, he mixes up players and names all of the time and half the time you can barely understand him. Just because you get a job and do it for 20-30 years doesn't mean that you get that job until you die. He still has to perform, and if he can't do it, then it's time for someone else to get a shot.

airalex
08-04-2004, 08:25 PM
My favorite Joe moment is when a Red hits a possible home run while Marty's making the call and in the background you can hear Joe saying "get up, get gone"

airalex
08-04-2004, 08:27 PM
Just because you get a job and do it for 20-30 years doesn't mean that you get that job until you die. He still has to perform, and if he can't do it, then it's time for someone else to get a shot.

He's been with the Reds since he was 15 years old. He's been here MUCH longer than 20-30 year.

johngalt
08-04-2004, 08:30 PM
He's been with the Reds since he was 15 years old. He's been here MUCH longer than 20-30 year.

My point is that it shouldn't matter if it's 5 years, 30 years, 60 years or 100 years. If he can't do the job well anymore, then it's time to move on. To say that a person should be able to keep their job regardless of their performance or the performance of someone else who may be just as capable if not more just because they've been doing it forever is ridiculous.

RedsRule30
08-04-2004, 08:37 PM
Larkin and Nuxhall have earned the right to come back if they want. The Reds suck regardless of what happens in the offseason.

It is almost impossible to win with a sub 45 million payroll.

People tend to forget that the Twins and Athletics were absolutely terrible in the 90's. 8 and 6 years of losing is not a rebuilding plan.

kyjoe
08-04-2004, 08:39 PM
Man, talk about the love & loyality for a Reds legend in this thread, it's oozing with it, ain't it? :thumbdn:

RedFanAlways1966
08-04-2004, 08:41 PM
Joe just turned 76 years-old. I think to myself about when my grandparents were around that age. I've known other people around that age. God love them all. But I cannot imagine them trying to announce a MLB game. Joe, obviously, can do it far better than most people his age. He is a seasoned vet in the booth and understands all the nuances of the game that has been his life, more-or-less, since he graced the mound for the first time in 1944.

I still love to hear Joe. His "little problems", that we are all aware of, do not bother me. It is b/c Joe is the only person (w/ Marty) that I have lived with on the baseball radio every summer. However, I think it is time... for his retirement. I know that eventually I will "get over it" and I will still listen every summer. Joe has definitely lost a step. I am not old enough to hear Joe from his beginning, but I know that he has lost a step from when I first heard him. I don't hold it against him b/c he is 76 years-old.

I am saddened mostly by one thing. I really looked forward to seeing Joe go out with a great day. I do not want this to get ugly. Joe does not want to leave. It is sad. But the REDS are a business. They have employed Joe for his entire announcing career. I hear people say that the REDS owe him, but I cannot see it that way. Joe is set for the rest of his days. He worked hard and earned everything. Including a great day on his last day. A day to be remembered for some time (Pete's hit, Riverfront's last day, Pete's softball game, etc.). Oh man...

Larkin's deal is a whole different animal to me and I won't discuss it here. Joe is a REDS legend. I hope all ends well.

Matt700wlw
08-04-2004, 08:41 PM
This isn't about whether or not you think he's a good announcer or not, this is about loyalty to a man who has given his whole entire life to this organization -- it's about loyalty and treating someone fairly -- Carl can hide behind John Allen with his actions without Joe even knowing intitally who forced him out. That's low, cold, and cowadly


Carl Lindner doesn't have the skills to be a run a competitive, winning-first baseball team, but nobody's running him out of town

RANDY IN INDY
08-04-2004, 08:42 PM
"Man, talk about the love & loyality for a Reds legend in this thread, it's oozing with it, ain't it?"



Come to expect it........

iammrred
08-04-2004, 08:43 PM
I really am interested to see what Marty has to say about this. He really could have the deciding vote. Wonder if the beat guys hit him up for a comment today.

airalex
08-04-2004, 08:43 PM
This isn't about whether or not you think he's a good announcer or not, this is about loyalty to a man who has given his whole entire life to this organization

Carl Lindner doesn't have the skills to be a run a competitive, winning-first baseball team, but nobody's running him out of town

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

RedFanAlways1966
08-04-2004, 08:51 PM
This isn't about whether or not you think he's a good announcer or not, this is about loyalty to a man who has given his whole entire life to this organization -- it's about loyalty and treating someone fairly --

I respect that.

If he stays, I am happy. If he retires, I can understand it from the REDS perspective.

MWM
08-04-2004, 08:51 PM
This isn't about whether or not you think he's a good announcer or not, this is about loyalty to a man who has given his whole entire life to this organization -- it's about loyalty and treating someone fairly --


How long does that loyalty run? How long do they have to put up with him being flat out awful in the name of loyalty? What about Joe's loyalty? At what point should his loyalty to quality broadcasting for the Cincinnati Reds organization come into play and tell him he needs to hand up the mic? Loyalty runs both ways. Being loyal to an organization for a long time is an admirable quality, but I think he was paid very well for doing it. But at some point in time, that loyalty isn't enough to excuse incompetence. I think they've been "being loyal" for the last 4 or 5 years but that loyalty is now spent.

What are they supposed to do? Let him go as long as he wants to no matter how much the quality of the broadcast suffers? Does his loyalty entitle him to a life time of holding a job he's no longer capable of doing well and being paid well for it?

Matt700wlw
08-04-2004, 09:07 PM
How long does that loyalty run? How long do they have to put up with him being flat out awful in the name of loyalty? What about Joe's loyalty? At what point should his loyalty to quality broadcasting for the Cincinnati Reds organization come into play and tell him he needs to hand up the mic? Loyalty runs both ways. Being loyal to an organization for a long time is an admirable quality, but I think he was paid very well for doing it. But at some point in time, that loyalty isn't enough to excuse incompetence. I think they've been "being loyal" for the last 4 or 5 years but that loyalty is now spent.

What are they supposed to do? Let him go as long as he wants to no matter how much the quality of the broadcast suffers? Does his loyalty entitle him to a life time of holding a job he's no longer capable of doing well and being paid well for it?

I think Joe knows when he should stop...him doing 15 to 20 games next season is a step back because he knows he can't do it like he used to it -- just like an 80 game schedule was this season

Hoosier Red
08-04-2004, 09:11 PM
Again, has anyone from the Reds said flat out he can't do 15-20 games? Like I said, I didn't see the report, but unless they are flat out refusing to let him do any games, its not fair to speculate that they won't.

Fil3232
08-04-2004, 09:16 PM
I'll say this, I couldnt care any less at this point if Joe makes an occasional mistake or two on the air. His presence has come to represent so much to the team and the city. Listening to Steve Stewart has really illustrated how great (and rare) Marty and Joe are as an announcing tandem. Steve Stewart has an unwavering way about his style, or lack there of, that really makes all the baseball action seem rather mundane and simply baseball. When Joe's enthusiam and passion are present, which is every night, Cincinnati Reds baseballs transcends just baseball, it is a way of life, a reminder of times when things were simpler, it is so much more than simply baseball action.

I know some dont and cant appreciate the little nuances that go along with Marty and especially Joe, and for that I am sorry. To me, I appreciate them every bit as much as the baseball action. I cherish when a ball can be hit to left/right center and when there can be 7 balls and 2 strikes. All in all this is obviosuly my opinion, but it is something I hold very strongly.

Absolutely terrible timing by the Reds, and on the surface, another classless move by an orginization that is becoming alarmingly frequent with them. Right now, I have no hope for this organization.

LINEDRIVER
08-04-2004, 09:17 PM
I keep going back to thinking that John Allen IS the guy who wanted Nuxie to work a reduced schedule and then retire. And I think Joe knows it too, he just knows that nothing would change for the better by dragging John's name thru the mud.

johngalt
08-04-2004, 09:22 PM
This isn't about whether or not you think he's a good announcer or not, this is about loyalty to a man who has given his whole entire life to this organization

Believe me, the Reds have given Joe Nuxhall plenty in his life as well. They gave him a shot at the big leagues at only 15 and instantly made him a "name" in Cincinnati for the rest of his life.

They basically handed over the radio broadcast duties to him as a favor even though more experienced announcers probably could have handled the position and probably deserved it more.

And aside from that, the Reds have helped Joe become the legend he is today. His natural personality had a lot to do with it, but it also had a lot to do with how the Reds supported him all those years.

One more thing....to me, loyalty and respect is also about allowing someone to leave with dignity and with your head held high. It seems to me, the Reds would be doing Joe a favor by trying to get him to see that his time is up instead of hanging around and having his reputation damaged. Do you want to remember Joe as an announcer whose emotional calls made you scream with joy? Or do you want to have people remember him as the old geezer on the radio who everyone laughed at and made fun of?

KittyDuran
08-04-2004, 09:38 PM
It seems like I have stated this many times - but IMHO, Steve is the replacement for Marty. He's a pbp guy - whereas Nux is really great doing color. So to compare Stew and Nux is apples to oranges... Personally, I really like Steve, I guess because I don't look to him as Nux's replacement.

Matt700wlw
08-04-2004, 09:52 PM
Nuxhall Says He's Being Bumped From Booth
Veteran Broadcaster In Final Season With Reds

UPDATED: 6:44 PM EDT August 4, 2004

CINCINNATI -- The old lefthander says he's not ready to be relieved, but the Reds are taking him out anyway.



Veteran broadcaster and former Red Joe Nuxhall fought back tears Wednesday as he described the way he wanted to end his career, WLWT Eyewitness News 5's George Vogel reported. Nuxhall appeared at the Hamilton County Library in downtown Cincinnati to promote the release of his new book, "Joe, Rounding Third And Heading For Home."

Nuxhall has been such a fixture with the organization that the aforementioned expression was added to the outside of the team's new home, Great American Ball Park, in big red letters facing the city.

The book details Nuxhall's life, including the plan to leave the Reds' radio booth at the end of the current season. According to Nuxhall, the decision was not his, Vogel reported.


"I've heard names, but I'm not going to mention them because I'm not sure."
--Joe Nuxhall



"It kind of hurts, really, the way it happened," Nuxhall said. "I certainly would have liked to make that decision myself, but it was made by other people."

Nuxhall added that it was not the decision of Reds Chief Operating Officer John Allen, either. Allen, however, and team owner Carl Lindner, weren't available for comment Wednesday, WLWT reported.

"To be dedicated to one organization for all of those years, and then to be told you're going to retire, that's what hurts," Nuxhall said.

There once was a time when Nuxhall was considering retiring, but that was when he was battling health problems. Now, however, seems to be a different story.

"I'd mentioned retirement a couple years ago because I wasn't feeling so good," he said.

Nuxhall said he hopes to remain with the team in some capacity. His good friend Reuven Katz said Nuxhall should be proud of his accomplishments.

"Very few of us ever get to end on our own terms, but he came close," Katz said. "Everyone from the top of the organization down through the years loves Joe Nuxhall."

Nuxhall Not Naming Names

Nuxhall said he's not certain who pushed for his retirement, WLWT reported.

"I've heard names, but I'm not going to mention them because I'm not sure," he said.

MWM
08-04-2004, 10:03 PM
Joe acts like the loyalty was one-sided. The Reds have been pretty darn loyal to him as well.

Phoenix
08-04-2004, 10:31 PM
Joe has already been around for way too long. For those who don't have a level of familiarity with Joe he is just plain bad. Plus there is always too much dead air. Leaving on good terms wouldv'e been nice, but regardless, it's time for Joe to go.

Matt700wlw
08-04-2004, 10:33 PM
Joe has already been around for way too long. For those who don't have a level of familiarity with Joe he is just plain bad. Plus there is always too much dead air. Leaving on good terms wouldv'e been nice, but regardless, it's time for Joe to go.

Not being in Cincinnati, it's tough to understand what Joe really means to our broadcasts....the people don't care about his mistakes, Marty and Joe are like family to a lot of us in this city -- and still are, after all these years

KittyDuran
08-04-2004, 10:35 PM
Why do I feel that Steve Stewart is the Reds' Deborah Norville??? :( Joe might as well names some names since he's went this far - he's thrown down the PR gauntlet... :help:

Matt700wlw
08-04-2004, 10:36 PM
Why do I feel that Steve Stewart is the Reds' Deborah Norville??? :( Joe might as well names some names since he's went this far - he's thrown down the PR gauntlet... :help:

I don't think he wants to name names because he doesn't know for sure who it is

Steve unfortunately, is involved unfairly just because he's the new guy...I think he should be left out of this whole argument

KittyDuran
08-04-2004, 10:38 PM
Hmmm...it's seems pretty convenient (sp?) that the team is on the west coast with Marty and Steve broadcasting - maybe John Allen is there as well. I'm glad that I didn't listen to Furball tonight... :p:

Chip R
08-04-2004, 10:39 PM
Why do I feel that Steve Stewart is the Reds' Deborah Norville??? :(
All About StEve? ;)

KittyDuran
08-04-2004, 10:39 PM
Steve unfortunately, is involved unfairly just because he's the new guy...I think he should be left out of this whole argument But you can't leave him out since the majority of fans believe he's Joe's replacement (which he may or may not be).

MWM
08-04-2004, 10:39 PM
Not being in Cincinnati, it's tough to understand what Joe really means to our broadcasts....the people don't care about his mistakes, Marty and Joe are like family to a lot of us in this city -- and still are, after all these years

I care about his mistakes. I like to listen to the games and I get so frustrated listening to him and not understanding what's going on. Hey, I'm as sentimental as the next guy. There were several times this year listening to Joe I just chuckled and said to myself that I'm going to miss hearing his voice. But I'd rather listen to a quality broadcast of the game than to not understand what's going on, but by golly I'm getting to listen to Joe Nuxhall speak so it's OK.

Give me a quality broadcast. I'll still have my memories of listening to Joe all these years.

Phoenix
08-04-2004, 10:46 PM
Not being in Cincinnati, it's tough to understand what Joe really means to our broadcasts....the people don't care about his mistakes, Marty and Joe are like family to a lot of us in this city -- and still are, after all these years

And that may be fine for you. You find him familiar and are willing to overlook his mistakes. But what about new young listeners? They tune in and then they get turned off to Reds baseball.

Matt700wlw
08-04-2004, 10:46 PM
I care about his mistakes. I like to listen to the games and I get so frustrated listening to him and not understanding what's going on. Hey, I'm as sentimental as the next guy. There were several times this year listening to Joe I just chuckled and said to myself that I'm going to miss hearing his voice. But I'd rather listen to a quality broadcast of the game than to not understand what's going on, but by golly I'm getting to listen to Joe Nuxhall speak so it's OK.

Give me a quality broadcast. I'll still have my memories of listening to Joe all these years.

I see your point, and it's a resonable expectation....I should have said a lot of people don't mind the little errors...poor wording on my part

Difference of opinion between you and I, and there's nothing wrong with that

I still feel the Reds could have gone about this differently

wheels
08-04-2004, 10:55 PM
Perfectly put MWM.

It actually pains me to hear him. It makes me sad to hear him stumble all over himself. I'd rather not hear it all, and just remember him calling Joe Oliver's double over the third base bag ( a great call, btw...Maybe one of my all time favorites).

I love Joe Nuxhall, but it's time for him to go.

As far as Steve Stewart goes...I think he takes an unfair beating. He's quick witted, and professional...A little dry, yes, but he gives us INFORMATION. What's the count? Who's up? Where was the ball hit? Who caught it? What's the score?
Sometimes Marty doesn't even give us the score, you know.

Loyalty is great, but performance and information are better, especially in radio.

MWM
08-04-2004, 10:56 PM
I still feel the Reds could have gone about this differently

How so?

I keep hearing how the Reds have handled this poorly, yet I've yet to hear one reason why. As far as I can tell, all they did was tell him they were moving in another direction. They gave him plenty of notice by letting him know at the beginning of last season that he would broadcast about half the games this year and then his replacement would be full time next year.

They also didn't go public that they were the ones making this decision. They let Joe announce his "retirement" so it did look like it was Joe's decision. They did all of this out of respect for Joe. I don't see how they could have handled it any better.

Remember, joe was the one from the beginning that intimated publically that he was forced out. He had his chance to go out on top with plenty of respect and adulation. It was JOE, not the Reds organization that turned it in to more than it needed to be. So if anyone handled this poorly, it was joe.

wheels
08-04-2004, 10:57 PM
All we've heard right now is innuendo.

Redsfanao
08-04-2004, 11:11 PM
Perhaps he's being forced out for monetary reasons. That seems to be the reason for everything that happens with this team. I'm sure Steve is cheaper :thumbdn: It really is a shame to treat him this way with all the years he's been in the Reds organization.

Also, with the addition of Steve Stewart, I've come to appreciate Joe even more. He just has such a warm personality and aura about him makes him enjoyable to listen to. No that I see what the booth is like without him, I realize I've taken him for granted.

Matt700wlw
08-04-2004, 11:16 PM
How so?




Having a day for him at the end of the season instead of just giving him the boot would be a start...

He may still come back to do 12-15 games next year, and I hope he does

When it is finally the end of the Nuxhall era, they need to do something for the man

MWM
08-04-2004, 11:17 PM
Someone please tell me how the Reds organization has treated Joe poorly. One example is all I ask.

Matt700wlw
08-04-2004, 11:18 PM
Someone please tell me how the Reds organization has treated Joe poorly. One example is all I ask.


I never said they did, I just feel that booting him the way they are isn't exactly the right way to do it -- I think they should give him a day for everything he did and for, what a concept, the fans! John Allen, being on Joe's side I think, I think he would see that this would get done

MWM
08-04-2004, 11:19 PM
How do you know they didn't offer that to him?

Matt700wlw
08-04-2004, 11:19 PM
How do you know they didn't offer that to him?


That I don't know...I hope they did or are going to when it's all said and done - and if he wants to come back for a small chunk of games in 2005, they should be open to it

MWM
08-04-2004, 11:22 PM
Actually Matt, they are holding a Joe Nuxhall retirement celebration as part of Queen City Fusion weekend in Cincinnati in September.

So I guess the Reds have handled it OK afterall. ;)

Matt700wlw
08-04-2004, 11:26 PM
Actually Matt, they are holding a Joe Nuxhall retirement celebration as part of Queen City Fusion weekend in Cincinnati in September.

So I guess the Reds have handled it OK afterall. ;)

I didn't know that, but I meant at the ballpark :D

Unassisted
08-04-2004, 11:28 PM
I doubt that Joe's a big drain on the budget. He probably makes about 2% of what Danny Graves does. If anything, he's being shown the door for performance reasons. Joe is beloved, a fixture, someone we grew up with and all that, but he simply no longer measures up to modern standards for MLB announcers. If he continues to squawk about this, he'll be lucky to get credentials to VISIT the press box next year.

Matt700wlw
08-04-2004, 11:30 PM
I doubt that Joe's a big drain on the budget. He probably makes about 2% of what Danny Graves does. If anything, he's being shown the door for performance reasons. Joe is beloved, a fixture, someone we grew up with and all that, but he simply no longer measures up to modern standards for MLB announcers. If he continues to squawk about this, he'll be lucky to get credentials to VISIT the press box next year.

Glad to see Carl making moves in the booth for performance reasons but doing as little as possible to better the performance of the product on the field

MikeS21
08-04-2004, 11:58 PM
From the article Matt posted:

There once was a time when Nuxhall was considering retiring, but that was when he was battling health problems. Now, however, seems to be a different story.

"I'd mentioned retirement a couple years ago because I wasn't feeling so good," he said.

I genuinely feel bad for the guy, and I have loved listening to Joe Nuxhall since the days of the BRM. But this thing of "Today I'm retired. but tomorrow I'll feel better and unretired." is not a good thing. It's not good for Joe and it's not good for the team. It leaves things up in the air and no one knows how to make future plans. I have seen this happen in the business world - a person decides to retire and announces it, and then changes their mind. The result has NEVER led to a stress-free parting.

Advertisers want to know who will be broadcasting the games. It puts the team in a spot because it all boils down to Nuxie's health as to who is going to broadcast. Some advertisers may want Nuxhall, and others may NOT want him.

The Reds showed loyalty by allowing Joe to hang on as long as he has. They even worked out a shortened schedule for him - advertising it to be his final year. Besides, how can you plan a big retirement bash if no one knows whether or not the guy is retired?

I am not opposed to him doing 15 home games next year. I'm not even opposed to giving him lifetime access to the radio booth as long as he is able to attend the games. But all this talk of being 'forced out" needs to stop right now and Joe needs to step away without all the fuss.

With all due respect, it's time for the "old left-hander" to stop "rounding third and heading for home" and gracefully go ahead and cross home plate.

Mainspark
08-05-2004, 12:07 AM
An easy solution would be for Joe to join Marty and what's-his-name in the booth as a third announcer for home games - when he feels like it.
Not doing play by play, which has always been Joe's weak point, but simply adding color commentary while the other two guys do the heavy lifting.
As for Lindner, is it possible that he resents Joe's status as a local icon? It must be galling to him to be held in contempt by many, despite what he sees as a lifetime of philanthropy, while a blue-collar type from Hamilton is perhaps the most beloved man in the Tri-State.
And remember, there were credible media reports last winter that Uncle Carl tried to persuade Allen to hire the husband of Lindner's secretary as Joe's replacement.

Fil3232
08-05-2004, 12:40 AM
And that may be fine for you. You find him familiar and are willing to overlook his mistakes. But what about new young listeners? They tune in and then they get turned off to Reds baseball.

Any new, young listener would only be so lucky as to have his parent/guardian explain to him what all that Joe has meant to this team and this city.

I wouldn't worry about the new, young listener. Maybe if we were getting fans from across the country and world, but that just doesnt seem to be the case.

Matt700wlw
08-05-2004, 12:41 AM
If there were more people with the heart of soul of Joe Nuxhall involved in baseball, it wouldn't have all the negativity and problems it has now

Fil3232
08-05-2004, 12:42 AM
If there were more people with the heart of soul of Joe Nuxhall involved in baseball, it wouldn't have all the negativity and problems it has now

Amen. This team, if all of this is true, has gone and ruined one of the only things going for it.

savafan
08-05-2004, 12:44 AM
I can't even believe what I'm reading here.

Who really cares if Joe makes a few mistakes in the booth? How many of you can say Assenmacher and Benevides without fumbling it up occasionally? Joe's been making little mistakes in the booth for as long as I can remember listening to him.

If new young baseball fans get turned off from baseball by listening to Joe Nuxhall, then they were never going to be true lifelong fans anyway.

Joe has earned the right to leave the booth when he wants to. None of us have earned any right to say it's time for Joe to go.

Matt700wlw
08-05-2004, 12:45 AM
I can't even believe what I'm reading here.

Who really cares if Joe makes a few mistakes in the booth? How many of you can say Assenmacher and Benevides without fumbling it up occasionally? Joe's been making little mistakes in the booth for as long as I can remember listening to him.

If new young baseball fans get turned off from baseball by listening to Joe Nuxhall, then they were never going to be true lifelong fans anyway.

Joe has earned the right to leave the booth when he wants to. None of us have earned any right to say it's time for Joe to go.

:clap:

MWM
08-05-2004, 12:56 AM
The Reds have had quality broadcasting for a lot longer than Joe Nuxhall has been around. I think THEY earned the right to decide who they want in the booth.

I don't care who you are, you never EARN the right to go on longer than your abilities allow you to do your job well. That's not loyalty in my book.

wheels
08-05-2004, 12:57 AM
It's painful to listen to, and frankly, this is not the way he should be remembered.

It's okay to move on.

Matt700wlw
08-05-2004, 01:03 AM
Some act like he screws game after game, play after play, night after night and doesn't get anything right and is basically beligerant in the booth and butchers the broadcast and is impossible to listen to

Because he can't pronounce a crazy last name right, or gets a couple of players mixed up, or he says right, left center, or he pauses a lot he's lost his skills and deserves to be forced into retirement?

The passion he has for this team and the happiness he reflects in his voice when the big plays occur and when the team wins still brings me a smile. When this team is doing well he gets so happy and it reflects in the broadcast...you can tell he means what he feels and not just doing it because it's the Reds and he works as part of the broadcast team

When the team is stinking up the joint, he shows his true feelings about that too...I like that..I like someone in there who is going to tell it like it is game in and game out.

And someone who means what he says whether it's good or bad -- and that is something Joe will do with the Reds even when he's gone -- and something I don't think anybody else will ever be able to the way he could and still does

919191
08-05-2004, 01:06 AM
I have no problem with Joe- he doesn't leave me feeling at aloss for info and I just like listening to him. I know he slips up, but as for me, well, I am not too far from the big 5-0 and he is one of the few things left that I enjoyed as a kid and still can. When he is retired, I'm afraid I'll feel somewhat older. :(

MWM
08-05-2004, 01:10 AM
Some act like he screws game after game, play after play, night after night and doesn't get anything right and is basically beligerant in the booth and butchers the broadcast and is impossible to listen to


Yep. That's a pretty good description of Joe in the booth these days. I listen a lot and I can't tell whether a fly ball is a can of corn or a 500 foot HR. When more than one thing is going on (i.e. a ball in the gap with multpile guys on base), he can't keep up. It's painful. Heck, if i didn't care about what happened until after it happened, I'd just read the boxscores.

WVRedsFan
08-05-2004, 01:12 AM
I've started this response three times without success. I'll try again, but it's not easy. Joe Nuxhall has been with the Reds in one capacity or another since he was 15 years old. When he left, they traded him away. He came back in 1962 or 1963, and went 14-3 one year. He stayed until he retired from playing and still stayed loyal to the Reds as a broadcaster. That's loyalty.

My Dad told me once that there is no loyalty in the world anymore. (I know. The OLD MAN is going to lecture you young whippersnappers again...time to delete and move on) He always told me that if a man stayed with the same company for a long time and never considered jumping ship or leaving for better wages, conditions, and fringe benefits, he was golden and deserved the benefit of the doubt in all situations. But, that was the real America that doesn't exist anymore. In today's world, all that matters is that you do everything correctly and without liability (even if you have to lie). Never mind if you are one of the reasons millions of folks follow the place you work, it's always time for a change especially if you are younger and can talk a better game. It's money and perception that matter. Nothing else. Old fogies need not apply.

And it's not like the great multitudes are calling for his dismissal, because they are not. It's radio. When I listen to the broadcasts, it's either because the game is not on TV or I'm in the car. Everything is not about total accuracy. It's the feel of the game--that's what radio has always been. I could care less where the player came from or how old he is. I want a friendly voice to let me know what's going on. It's baseball. And I want to be entertained. Marty does that. Joe does that. Anyone who wants to see what the other side is like, check out the Braves' radio team. Paint drying is more exciting. Yes, you get every statistic you never dreamed existed, but you get no emotion. You get professionalism. God save us from that. Driving along with the World Book Encyclopedia of baseball is a prescription for maybe falling asleep and plowing your car into a guardrail. Joe genuinely gets excited about the Reds. I just listened to Steve call an inning, and he might be a nice guy and all, but my mind wondered to a million things I should be doing other than listening to baseball. That never happens to me with Joe. I want to see what he and Marty think about situations. And I want to hear the hoarse voice say, "Get up, get out!" in the background. Or the quiet groan when something goes wrong. Quoting endless statistics is a prescription for putting me to sleep.

But, I guess it's over and that's the way of 21st Century America. Get rid of them and bring the younger set in. Trouble is, younger folks don't listen to radio much anymore. They've got MP3's and ESPN.com and all that. My son follows the game on his computer.

Yep, the Reds needed to let Joe go when he felt like it. It wasn't brain surgery, but it was close. It was PBP radio. And Joe didn't make the cut...after 60-odd years of being a Red. "It was a business decision."

Sad.

TeamBoone
08-05-2004, 01:21 AM
IIRC, Joe made the decision to retire before this season even started!

He said he'd take it slow, calling only half the games this year and not be back in 2005. Did he change his mind?

Ok, I found it. Here's the article:

Voice Of The Reds Joe Nuxhall Retiring From Radio In 2004
11/1/02 11:37:24 AM
Reds radio man Joe Nuxhall is living up to his famous sign off -- "the old lefthander is rounding third and heading for home."
Nuxhall has decided to stay in the booth with Marty Brennaman for two more years then will retire in 2004.

Nuxhall has been a part of the Reds organization for 51 years and has spent the last 36 calling plays for his hometown team.

The Hamilton native was the youngest player ever to play in a major league game, coming up with the Reds as a pitcher in 1944 at the age of 15.

Word was that Nuxhall wanted to see the Reds move into the new Great American Ballpark before retiring. It turns out Nuxhall will get two years there before stepping down.

9News spoke with Nuxhall during the Reds' last series at Cinergy Field. He said seeing it to come to an end wasn't easy.

"I could walk out of here right now and say, well, it's been great, let's go play in the new ballpark, but that's easy to say until you hear people saying, talking about the biggest moments here and so on ... it might be a different story," Nuxhall said.

Joe Nuxhall and Marty Brennaman both signed contract extensions through 2004. Attorney Reuven Katz, who has represented many former Reds players over years, helped work out the two year extensions for the legendary broadcast pair.

The news that Nuxhall is slated to work just 60 games during the 2004 season and then retire came as a surprise to some fans.

"Well, that saddens me. I remember growing up listening to Joe Nuxhall on radio and following the games and watching him pitch when I was a younger so it's like an institution retiring," said Gary Frede.

Gordon Wilshire of Ft. Thomas was also upset at the news.

"Well I was sorry to hear about it. I would like to see him stay," Wilshire said.

"He's the ultimate baseball announcer. I put him up there with Harry Caray and Mel Allen, all of them," said Harry Bader of Southgate, Kentucky.

"When you think of Joe you think Reds Baseball. You don't even want to think Joe not being part of that," said Helen Thomas of the Skywalk Baseball store.

http://www.wcpo.com/news/2002/local/11/01/nuxall.html

Matt700wlw
08-05-2004, 01:22 AM
He was FORCED to make that decision -- that's what this whole thread is about -- it seems it's finally come out that he didn't really want to retire, but is being forced out by, according to Tommy Helms, Carl Lindner.....it seems John Allen is the one who was able to get him the limited schedule this season. Joe was on with Furman earlier, and he's hoping to meet with John Allen sometime soon and see if can get a small number of games for next season. He doesn't want to go, but is ok with reducing the workload, but will accept whatever the organization decides

919191
08-05-2004, 01:37 AM
You know those long moments of silence that Joe has? I don't mind them, but it makes me remember the days of older car radios where you turned the tuner knob and the bar moved right or left. If you were on the fringes of reception, it was tough tuning in beacuse you weren't sure if you were between stations or if Joe just wasn't talking. :)

westofyou
08-05-2004, 01:46 AM
IMO Joe has a bigger fish to fry with the Reds, namely his Bobblehead and it's uncanny resemblence to Denny Neagle

http://www.deadballart.com/redszone/joe1.jpg

http://www.deadballart.com/redszone/joe2.jpg

http://www.deadballart.com/redszone/neagle.jpg

Matt700wlw
08-05-2004, 01:48 AM
:lol:

KronoRed
08-05-2004, 06:13 AM
Knowing the Reds, that IS a Neagle bobblehead, and they just repainted it a bit ;)

TeamCasey
08-05-2004, 06:44 AM
I really haven't heard anything factual yet.

I am getting a kick out of some of the ageist crap on here. I'm laughing, because some day you'll be wearing those shoes.

This old lefthander says, "Remember your comments today, reflect on them tomorrow ........ and hope that you aren't surrounded by people like you."

cincinnati chili
08-05-2004, 07:03 AM
I think the Reds/WLW are handling this just right. Sort of like a Nicorette patch, they are weaning us off of Joe. 80 games one year... 20 games the next... Sure we're used to Joe, and we feel like we'll miss Joe, but Joe is not good for us. He's not nearly as bad as Harry Caray was in his later years, but he's still not very sharp in a game situation. Stewart was one of my last choices among the "finalists" for the WLW job, but I still enjoy his work much more than Joe_version_2004. I saw Joe address a panel at SABR and he was outstanding and funny, when given the time and latitude to tell funny stories, etc. But he is no longer suited for play-by-play IMO.

Fil3232
08-05-2004, 07:40 AM
For whats its worth, Dave "Giddy" Armbruster, the traffic guy who gets mentioned a lot in the booth during games was asked about this whole thing this morning by Jim Scott. He replied that he has known about it for a while and would only say that he "thinks its pretty sad that a guy with 1.5 BILLION dollars is jealous of a 76 year old man with bad knees."

RANDY IN INDY
08-05-2004, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by WVRedsFan:

I've started this response three times without success. I'll try again, but it's not easy. Joe Nuxhall has been with the Reds in one capacity or another since he was 15 years old. When he left, they traded him away. He came back in 1962 or 1963, and went 14-3 one year. He stayed until he retired from playing and still stayed loyal to the Reds as a broadcaster. That's loyalty.

My Dad told me once that there is no loyalty in the world anymore. (I know. The OLD MAN is going to lecture you young whippersnappers again...time to delete and move on) He always told me that if a man stayed with the same company for a long time and never considered jumping ship or leaving for better wages, conditions, and fringe benefits, he was golden and deserved the benefit of the doubt in all situations. But, that was the real America that doesn't exist anymore. In today's world, all that matters is that you do everything correctly and without liability (even if you have to lie). Never mind if you are one of the reasons millions of folks follow the place you work, it's always time for a change especially if you are younger and can talk a better game. It's money and perception that matter. Nothing else. Old fogies need not apply.

And it's not like the great multitudes are calling for his dismissal, because they are not. It's radio. When I listen to the broadcasts, it's either because the game is not on TV or I'm in the car. Everything is not about total accuracy. It's the feel of the game--that's what radio has always been. I could care less where the player came from or how old he is. I want a friendly voice to let me know what's going on. It's baseball. And I want to be entertained. Marty does that. Joe does that. Anyone who wants to see what the other side is like, check out the Braves' radio team. Paint drying is more exciting. Yes, you get every statistic you never dreamed existed, but you get no emotion. You get professionalism. God save us from that. Driving along with the World Book Encyclopedia of baseball is a prescription for maybe falling asleep and plowing your car into a guardrail. Joe genuinely gets excited about the Reds. I just listened to Steve call an inning, and he might be a nice guy and all, but my mind wondered to a million things I should be doing other than listening to baseball. That never happens to me with Joe. I want to see what he and Marty think about situations. And I want to hear the hoarse voice say, "Get up, get out!" in the background. Or the quiet groan when something goes wrong. Quoting endless statistics is a prescription for putting me to sleep.

But, I guess it's over and that's the way of 21st Century America. Get rid of them and bring the younger set in. Trouble is, younger folks don't listen to radio much anymore. They've got MP3's and ESPN.com and all that. My son follows the game on his computer.

Yep, the Reds needed to let Joe go when he felt like it. It wasn't brain surgery, but it was close. It was PBP radio. And Joe didn't make the cut...after 60-odd years of being a Red. "It was a business decision."

Sad.

Great post, WV, and it is very sad. I used to be surprised at the critical comments of Reds legend, Joe Nuxhall, but in today's environment of exacting individuals, I've come to expect it. You either "get" what Joe Nuxhall is, and all that he brings to the Reds, or you don't. If he isn't your cup of tea, then so be it. I don't have any right to force my opinion on you.

As many of you know, I had the pleasure of spending a week in the presence of Joe Nuxhall at the Reds fantasy camp a couple years back. He was the first person that I met, upon getting out of the cab from the airport. He approached me with a big smile, asked me my name and where I was from, told me we were going to have a great week, and put his arm around my shoulder and walked me into the hotel lobby. It was if he had known me all of my life, and it made me feel like I was a part of something bigger. His locker was just around the corner from mine, and every day, he would come by and ask me how things were going and spend some time just chatting. He didn't have to do that, and only he and Bernie Stowe did. I'll never forget their kindness. When my wife and son came on the weekend, we were at breakfast on Saturday morning and Joe came over to our table, slid in beside Matt, shook his hand and hugged him and treated him basically like a grandfather would treat a grandson. Joe was particularly happy when he found out that Matt was a lefthander. All I could do was smile, and Matt still remembers that to this day. That kind of thing is "above and beyond" and I'm very sure that I'm one of many who have witnessed that side of Joe Nuxhall.

His experience in baseball, particularly Reds baseball, brings qualities to the broadcasts that no one else will ever be able to bring or replace. If he botches a few names, makes a few mistakes, or allows a little "dead-air," it doesn't bother me in the least. The things that he brings to the booth each day, far outweigh the few mistakes that he makes, in my opinion. He is a Cincinnati treasure, plain and simple. His phrases, stories and presence on the radio is a welcome relief from the forced, bland, canned, talking head, bore me to death with endless statistics approach that so many bring to the airwaves these days. I enjoy hearing someone like Joe that can bring a smile to my face when I've had a bad day. He's like an old friend, and where I come from, you treat old friends like family. Maybe that is part of the problem. Maybe the Reds aren't like a family anymore.

I always figure what goes around comes around. With what measure we judge, we will be judged, and I'm sure that is just fine with most of you.

RedsFan75
08-05-2004, 08:41 AM
"That's a short pop fly to Right-left-center field" and Jim-in-ez is under it for the catch, and that'll be the inning, the 2nd out of the inning."

I grew up with Marty and Joe. Sitting in my room at night, getting 700 WLW to skip over the moutains in south eastern KY. Then when our local station WSGS in Hazard, started carrying the Reds Radio network, I got to hear them in 100,000 watts of FM power!

Marty and Joe will always be the voice of the Reds to me, but I do like Steves style. Joe should go out on a high note. With his head held high in dignity for the years of service he's put into this organization, if they are forcing him out, then taking the moral high road, and moving on without them would be the class act to do... Not saying it would be easy, just classy.

Roy Tucker
08-05-2004, 08:52 AM
A friend of mine sent me this link. I thought it would be good background reading for this discussion. Joe isn't mentioned, but Marty is quoted often...

(http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/Sports/Other+Sports/E3513A1FEA7940B786256ECC0037436D?OpenDocument&Headline=Radio+fades+for+baseball+fans

Radio fades for baseball fans
By Dan Caesar
Of the Post-Dispatch
07/09/2004

Baseball on the radio. In its heyday it was a true art form, a craft unlike any other, in which storytelling - weaved with crisp, eloquent descriptions of the games - transformed those announcers into an extended family member for many in their audience.

How many Cardinals' fans of a bygone era thought they knew Jack Buck or Harry Caray, even though they never met them? The same with Vin Scully in Los Angeles, Ernie Harwell in Detroit, Bob Prince in Pittsburgh and many others.

But the relationship is fading in this high-tech age. New, glitzier media have grabbed fans' interest and wooed many - even broadcasters - away from the medium. Baseball's golden age on radio has evolved into about as much a relic as a yellowing newspaper found in a crevice of grandma's attic.

"It's very clear that the dominant medium now is television," said Bob Costas, the lead baseball broadcaster for NBC before it lost the sport to Fox in 2001. "Radio's primary purpose is for when people are in cars or at the beach or on the move, that kind of thing. There may be some older people living in a town - where they have a particularly good or distinctive radio announcer - who might actually prefer to listen to the game on radio, even if it were available on television. But I think people are just so used to seeing the vast majority of their home team's games - let alone all the games they can see on cable - on television that that becomes the primary outlet."

The transformation began in the 1970s, when cable TV conquered the country with its superstations, making the Chicago Cubs (on WGN) and Atlanta Braves (on WTBS) available nationwide on nearly a daily basis. Before then, most teams - especially in smaller markets - televised few games. National exposure was limited to NBC's Saturday "Game of the Week." It was a treat, the rare chance for fans to see teams other than the one they followed, clubs they often knew only from newspapers and magazines, or hearing them discussed on radio.

"In the old days, the phone would start ringing at Channel 5 on Monday, 'Who's on the "Game of the Week" this Saturday?'" former KSDK (Channel 5) sports director Jay Randolph said. "That's all gone."

In the early 1970s, Cardinals chairman August A. Busch Jr. permitted only about two dozen games to be shown. This year, all but three games are scheduled to be televised.

"Radio's coverage has been diminished because there is so much on television," Randolph said. "If you're in the car, you're stuck with it, or if you're on a job where they don't allow you to have a television, you listen if you can. But I think it's lost a lot of its specialness."


The hook of TV

The loss of "specialness" has hit radio broadcasters, as television and its generally much better pay lures most young broadcasters. Joe Buck, 35, fits that mold. He formerly manned the Cardinals radio booth but now has abandoned that for the greener pastures of TV, in which he is the Fox network's lead play-by-play announcer for baseball and football.

"When you think back over the last 50 years, there are only a couple guys still going on radio who are truly known as the voice of the team," Buck said. "It's a different era."

Harry Caray played a major role in the transition. As immensely popular as he was throughout the Midwest, Mid-South and Southwest because of his work on Cardinals games, which were carried on the club's vast radio network, he didn't become a national icon until the final stages of his career. And that was because of TV, where he spent his latter years as the lead announcer for the Cubs on WGN. The legacy of Jack Buck, despite several forays into TV, is entrenched in radio.

"If he was coming along now, he would end up as having been known as one of the great TV voices," Joe Buck said. "But fans don't sit around and listen to the radio anymore. There now is a fast-paced lifestyle. I don't think people are willing to sit to listen to the radio. ... The radio guy just doesn't sit there with people in their living rooms night after night anymore."

Dan McLaughlin, 30, provides a case study in the radio vs. TV career path. In January 2002 he was in the unprecedented position of being offered a spot to broadcast Cardinals game on radio and television. His options were to work in one of the most prestigious radio booths in all of sports and broadcast all 162 Cards games, or do play-by-play of about 90 games on TV. He picked television.

"I was such a young guy, I felt I needed to establish myself in television," he said. "There are so many games on TV, it becomes the place where people go."

Wayne Hagin, who gained the Cards' radio job after Jack Buck's death, has been broadcasting baseball on the radio almost exclusively for more than a decade. He, too, was smitten by television early in his career - he even anchored ESPN's second "SportsCenter" telecast, in 1979. He also was involved in TV during his early baseball years before gaining the radio play-by-play job when the Colorado Rockies were born in 1993.

"There was a time I wanted to do both, but it never presented itself," he said.

But now he said he's satisfied as "a radio guy" and he doesn't like the cavalier attitude taken by some in the next generation.

"Jack (Buck) and I had more conversations about that subject than anything else in the years I knew him," Hagin said. "It bothered him that young announcers loved the position they were in more than the craft. They didn't love baseball on radio, they were using it as a steppingstone."

Marty Brennaman, the radio voice of the Cincinnati Reds for 31 years, concurred.

"It never ceases to surprise me, the great appeal of TV," he said. "There never has been a game invented more for radio than this one, but guys want to gravitate toward TV. This generation, if somebody spends 30 years in a booth, it will be an aberration."

Beyond money, there is more prestige associated with TV for the younger set.

"Joe Buck now is the voice of the playoffs and World Series, because he does them on national TV," McLaughlin said.


"Theater of the imagination"

The ubiquity of television has led to an erosion of fundamentals in many young radio broadcasters, some top announcers say.

"You can't stop the march of technology and the availability of all these games," Costas said. "When the primacy of television is so great and radio is relegated to secondary status, you lose that whole theater of the imagination (facet), you lose ... the storytelling ability of the announcer and the descriptive ability, and the ability to reflect by tone of voice, the drama of the situation. When those skills are less called upon, people don't develop those muscles.

"Although there are still some very, very good radio announcers - I think it has subtly affected even the way radio is done. Except for the oldest of the oldest-timers, all of the radio announcers grew up watching baseball on television. Listen to how infrequently most radio announces position the fielders, tell you if the sun is behind a cloud or the shadows are creeping over the field, how infrequently they describe a pitcher's windup if it is distinctive or the quirkiness of a guy's stance, tell you what number a guy wears. ... Just the ability to tell an anecdote well is less in evidence than it used to be."

Jon Miller, the radio voice of the World Series who also works on ESPN's Sunday telecasts and San Francisco Giants broadcasts, agrees.

"I hear a lot of young guys doing minor league ball who are doing more television-type calls on the radio," he said. "But on radio, the accurate vivid description is everything - and on television it's irrelevant.

"When I hear a game on the radio ... and a guy hits a line drive base hit into left-center field, I need to hear 'base hit.' When you see the ball go out there and you see it hit the ground, and at that point it's a base hit, I need to hear that on the radio, I need to hear that established. A lot of times you'll hear, 'line drive into left-center field, here comes one run in, here comes ...' and it's like, 'Wait a minute - I haven't even heard it's a base hit yet.'"


Clutter corner

The slow pace of baseball makes it a fertile ground, unlike any other sport, for storytelling. And there's nothing that interrupts the flow more than the so-called "drop-ins," the seemingly incessant commercial plugs that have infiltrated broadcasts. From sponsoring pitching changes to having ads tied to the listing of the umpires, no recent development has seemed to cause more grumbling. To those who consider broadcasting baseball on the radio an art, it's akin to plastering a Band-Aid adorned with an ad on Mona Lisa's forehead.

"That's the bane of our existence," said Cincinnati's Brennaman, who added he has gone as far as not including the full allotment at times. "It's been an ongoing battle in my conversations with our station. I said, 'If you're going to add more, find somebody else to do this.'"

Mike Shannon, who is in his 33rd year in the Cardinals' radio booth, also dislikes the trend.

"It's all the bottom line," Shannon said. "I'd rather have it the other way because I think the fans would like it that way. What radio has going for it is that you can (make people think they can) smell the popcorn, taste the hot dogs and the Cracker Jack. I'm afraid that those things will be lost. You have to be careful you don't ruin that flavor."


Local line

Although there has been a general shift of power in baseball broadcasts at the local level from radio to television, such is not the case in St. Louis - at least not yet.

"It has affected St. Louis, but it hasn't affected it to the extent of other places," said Costas, who lives in the market. "Out of 30 teams, in 20 of those cities it's probably the TV guy who is more identified with the team. In the cases where it's the radio guy, it would be because the person is of long standing ... or in those handful of locations where the radio guy is just so remarkably good that he overcomes whatever obstacle there is to making an impression - he's just so damn good that people can't help but notice."

Key factors to the Cards' bucking the trend are a rich tradition on radio, plus the power of a radio network that has nearly 100 affiliates and the flagship station KMOX with its vast reach. There have been only three lead play-by-play announcers in more than half a century - Caray, Buck and Shannon.

"This is a special place," Shannon said. "There is so much tradition."

Shannon now is one of the longest-tenured broadcasters with one club.

"He has something in common with the distinctive radio announcers who preceded him, which is he has a truly original personality," Costas said. "Not like some guys now who have an attitude, and it's an assembly-line attitude. It always cracks me up when I hear something like, 'Same game, Fox attitude.' How can anyone have 'attitude' if it's standard-issue attitude? There's an ESPN attitude, there's a Fox attitude, but there's only one Mike Shannon attitude, because there's only one Mike Shannon. Not only is he quirky and therefore endearing and amusing, but he is what - especially since Jack's death - what the Cardinals sound like.

"And there's no overestimating the importance of that. Because (of the growth) of national television, and the Internet, and people reading USA Today, as those things break down the kind of provincial feelings and the regional feelings, one of the few things that reinforces it is rooting for your team and listening to your announcer. And your announcer can't be just anybody. He's got to be somebody you've got some years invested in - and that's what he's got going."

McLaughlin says radio remains the focal point locally - but hints that won't last forever.

"This town is different, because of Mike and Jack," he said. "They enhanced it. Maybe we're just catching up later than elsewhere."


Looking ahead

As times change, ESPN's Miller says he has adapted - and actually improved his radio broadcasts because of television.

"There's a chance for a radio broadcast to be better than it's ever been because of television," he said. "When I do a game on radio, there's always a TV monitor where I have access to all the pitches from the center-field camera, to the replays, to give a more thorough view of what every pitch was. ... I describe every pitch off the center-field camera.

"On television, I learned right away the fans have already seen it. And if you (as the announcer) are waiting for the umpire to call it, the whole country is saying, what are you blind? So I realized early on with the ESPN telecasts I needed to see what they were seeing so I didn't sound like the only guy in America who didn't know if the ball was caught or a home run. It's really helped make my radio broadcast better."

But the overall direction of baseball on the radio seems to frustrate Costas, a wordsmith and craftsman.

"I get tapes from some guy who is a real baseball fan," Costas said. "He's like I was when I was a kid, and he wants to be a baseball announcer and he's doing the Richmond Braves or the Chattanooga Lookouts and he's not trying to be some modern TV guy, he's trying to be Jack Buck, he's trying to be Ernie Harwell. And you wonder if there's as much of a spot for guys like that as there used to be."

Cincinnati's Brennaman sums things up from the perspective of a baseball radio broadcaster whose career began in the era before TV saturation.

"To me, the ultimate job in broadcasting still is to be the voice of a major league baseball team," he said. "And it's unfortunate so many don't feel that way anymore."

Reporter Dan Caesar
E-mail: dcaesar@post-dispatch.com
Phone: 314-340-8175

johngalt
08-05-2004, 09:16 AM
I didn't know that, but I meant at the ballpark :D

You mean something like....Joe Nuxhall Retirement Night on Sept. 18 against the Cubs?

BigRedSmokey
08-05-2004, 09:53 AM
Knowing the Reds, that IS a Neagle bobblehead, and they just repainted it a bit ;)


That is what I was thinking. :lol:

BuckeyeRedleg
08-05-2004, 09:59 AM
I've started this response three times without success. I'll try again, but it's not easy. Joe Nuxhall has been with the Reds in one capacity or another since he was 15 years old. When he left, they traded him away. He came back in 1962 or 1963, and went 14-3 one year. He stayed until he retired from playing and still stayed loyal to the Reds as a broadcaster. That's loyalty.

My Dad told me once that there is no loyalty in the world anymore. (I know. The OLD MAN is going to lecture you young whippersnappers again...time to delete and move on) He always told me that if a man stayed with the same company for a long time and never considered jumping ship or leaving for better wages, conditions, and fringe benefits, he was golden and deserved the benefit of the doubt in all situations. But, that was the real America that doesn't exist anymore. In today's world, all that matters is that you do everything correctly and without liability (even if you have to lie). Never mind if you are one of the reasons millions of folks follow the place you work, it's always time for a change especially if you are younger and can talk a better game. It's money and perception that matter. Nothing else. Old fogies need not apply.

And it's not like the great multitudes are calling for his dismissal, because they are not. It's radio. When I listen to the broadcasts, it's either because the game is not on TV or I'm in the car. Everything is not about total accuracy. It's the feel of the game--that's what radio has always been. I could care less where the player came from or how old he is. I want a friendly voice to let me know what's going on. It's baseball. And I want to be entertained. Marty does that. Joe does that. Anyone who wants to see what the other side is like, check out the Braves' radio team. Paint drying is more exciting. Yes, you get every statistic you never dreamed existed, but you get no emotion. You get professionalism. God save us from that. Driving along with the World Book Encyclopedia of baseball is a prescription for maybe falling asleep and plowing your car into a guardrail. Joe genuinely gets excited about the Reds. I just listened to Steve call an inning, and he might be a nice guy and all, but my mind wondered to a million things I should be doing other than listening to baseball. That never happens to me with Joe. I want to see what he and Marty think about situations. And I want to hear the hoarse voice say, "Get up, get out!" in the background. Or the quiet groan when something goes wrong. Quoting endless statistics is a prescription for putting me to sleep.

But, I guess it's over and that's the way of 21st Century America. Get rid of them and bring the younger set in. Trouble is, younger folks don't listen to radio much anymore. They've got MP3's and ESPN.com and all that. My son follows the game on his computer.

Yep, the Reds needed to let Joe go when he felt like it. It wasn't brain surgery, but it was close. It was PBP radio. And Joe didn't make the cut...after 60-odd years of being a Red. "It was a business decision."

Sad.

I may be a semi-young whippersnapper (33), but I totally agree.

Well said!

Eric_Davis
08-05-2004, 10:00 AM
This is ugly.

Bob Whitsitt did it to Bill Schonely of the TrailBlazers. Total PR snafu.

Guys like Nuxhall,...you let them go out on their own terms.

CincyReds2003
08-05-2004, 10:30 AM
This organization sucks!!! As long as they are owned by Lindner and the partners and being run by a CEO who is fricking clueless, they will never, ever be successful!!! Anyone who thinks different is smoking some good &^%$! Maybe I'll start rooting for the Cardinals, or not pay attention to baseball at all. I'm glad football is here.

Eric_Davis
08-05-2004, 10:36 AM
Just makes a lot of mistake these days but he is a familiar voice. Stewart certainly isn't an improvement.

Joe fits in nicely with an error prone team. Let him stay.

A moment rarely went by when Bill Schonely didn't make some blunder, but I didn't care.

"The Blazers lead the Nets by five 77-74", or something like that. He was the familiar voice as you say, but most importantly, he was the face and the voice of the franchise. The caravans he did over his 30+ years with the team were priceless p.r. I imagine Nuxhall's voice and image have a priceless P.R. for the REDS, too.

Shaggy Sanchez
08-05-2004, 10:47 AM
I myself can't stand listening to Joe anymore he drives me nuts getting things wrong and all of the dead air. There is nothing wrong with a little change, I know that all of us here have grown up listening to Marty and Joe and for a long time it was nice to listen to but you have got to notice that Joe just can't do it anymore. It would be interesting to se some of these people out in the real world where companies can let you go whenever they want, if Joe worked for P&G and didn't want to retire but wasn't doing his job up to par do you think they would say "well he has been here forever lets keep him and his mistakes around and pay him this nice fat salary" no way they would show him the door. This type of stuff happens everyday, it always amazes me when I hear things like this organization owes Joe something or they owe Barry Larkin this or that. These people got paid very well to do the job they have done it isn't like they did it for free so when the organization wants to move on why should they owe them anything else.

If we keep giving to all the people that have been loyal to the organization things will never change, Barry will be at SS in 3 years, Miley will be the manager for the next 10 years, Joe will be on air forever, etc... Some times people don't know when to hang it up and it takes someone forcing them out to take care of the situation, this is one of those situations.

flyer85
08-05-2004, 10:56 AM
I really still don't mind Joe as a color guy. It's his play-by-play that is badl(3rd, 4th and 7th).

Why not have a 3 man booth at times. Stewart is a play-by-play not a color guy anyway, he can take the 3rd, 4th and 7th. I think they hired him as a LT replacement for Marty anyway. Have Joe do some games and let him do the color but relieve him of his play-by-play responsibilities. I think it is Joe's innings by himself and play-by-play that people don't like.

traderumor
08-05-2004, 11:13 AM
The thing that makes no sense to me is why Carl Lindner would care? Has Joe been vocal in criticizing him? Just not sure what his motive would be for forcing Joe out, since that seems to be where the finger is pointing.

Larkin411
08-05-2004, 12:04 PM
I love Joe's play by play. I guess it's personal preference as I've never had problems figuring out what was happening on the field. I suppose there might be a slight delay on some of the action but I've never found it bothersome(again that's just a preference, I can see how others want a different approach from announcers). Usually I only turn the radio down if Marty is getting all pissy and moaning about something or making snide comments. Actually come to think of it the only time I get annoyed or have a hard time knowing what's going on in the game is when they have a boring guest on. It seems like you have no idea what's going while they blah-blah-blah about stuff that's already been rehashed over and over and then maybe you'll get a one sentence summary about the inning at the end of it. I'll take Joe's silence over that any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Cedric
08-05-2004, 12:24 PM
Joe is the greatest, I will miss him dearly when he is done for good. Some things in life are more important to me than just missing a score, it's not like it doesn't get fixed in seconds anyway. People that grew up with only Marty and Joe know what i'm talking about, if you haven't you wouldn't EVER understand.

I still feel there are a few certain people on this board that come across as robots. They claim they are sentimental but they are willing to throw someone to the curb just as soon as the guy falters a few scores. Baseball is more than just stats and the score to me, it's an atmosphere around the game. I personally think the ripping of Joe is vastly overrated, 95% of the time he does a great job and the other 5% isn't so bad you can't live. What's more important to you? A perfect play by play or someone that makes the whole baseball experience grand?

BigRedSmokey
08-05-2004, 12:33 PM
"I'll take Joe's silence over that any day of the week and twice on Sundays"

Are we playing a doubleheader this Sunday??? :)


I think this is just one of those situations where it's best to let Joe decide when to retire. I agree with many that his play by play leaves a lot to be desired, but it's not awful in my view. Therefore, the many years of service he has given to the Reds should stand for something. And I,for one, can certainly accept his mis-steps with the knowledge of how much he has meant to the Reds and my enjoyment of Reds baseball. In many years when the Reds have totally sucked, Joe and Marty have sometimes been the only entertainment I get from the games. :evil:

The disappointing thing in this is just how terrible the Reds organization is at letting things get to the point of embarrassment. Time after Time it seems this organization lets situations get out of hand and it just kills the perception of the whole organization.

RANDY IN INDY
08-05-2004, 12:36 PM
"A perfect play by play or someone that makes the whole baseball experience grand?"
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Depends if you are a robot or a human being. ;)

westofyou
08-05-2004, 12:42 PM
Geez, I hope this doesn't bring down the wrath of RedsZone on me, but to compare Ernie Harwell to Joe Nuxhall, at any point in their respective careers, is beyond apples to oranges.

I was weaned by Ernie, he was one of the best, as is the Marty and Joe team.

But even the Beatles broke up, everything has an end.

How you except and process it is your own feelings, to define some as robotic because they don't feel as you do is somewhat ironic, since robots all possess the same reaction to an event.

Cedric
08-05-2004, 12:43 PM
:)

I just think sometimes we lose sight of what baseball is about, the negativity on this site is understandable because of how bad the team is. But even still i'm surprised by how serious people take every aspect of the game. This game is for entertainment, I think people must be EXTREMELY high strung if they lose the enjoyment of baseball because of a few bad play by play calls. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but geez can we relax a little bit.

westofyou
08-05-2004, 12:44 PM
I think people must be EXTREMELY high strung if they lose the enjoyment of baseball because of a few bad play by play calls. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but geez can we relax a little bit.

Pre Game Yoga might work.

Cedric
08-05-2004, 12:45 PM
:) Sounds like a plan.

Chip R
08-05-2004, 12:52 PM
:)

I just think sometimes we lose sight of what baseball is about, the negativity on this site is understandable because of how bad the team is. But even still i'm surprised by how serious people take every aspect of the game. This game is for entertainment, I think people must be EXTREMELY high strung if they lose the enjoyment of baseball because of a few bad play by play calls. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but geez can we relax a little bit.
I feel the same way when people rag on players who strike out or commit a few errors. I guess it's OK for Joe to get names wrong or not inform us of a run scoring or getting a player's name wrong but it's not OK for players to screw up.

RedsFan75
08-05-2004, 01:58 PM
Good point by both Cedric and Chip... I grew up listening to Joe and Jim, then Joe and Al, then Marty took over.

The key was The Reds were good, and the radio teams always kept this energy and excitement alive. I thought Al and Joe were the best radio team to ever call a game... Then Marty came along and got to call memorable moments but who can forget Joe screaming at the ball in Pete's hit to tie the Hits record... That was exciting, and entertaining.

Now we get to listen to them talk about golf, or stuff that no one outside the booth understands... Listening to a game the other night... (Gabe White's impolsion) and I never heard who was the pitcher having the problem. Didn't find out until I got home and looked on the web... Sometimes I don't even hear the score for innings at a time.

I'm still an avid Reds fan, and have been since 1966. I listen to be entertained, but also to follow the game. I want Steve's facts, I want the score, I want the pitching matchup, but, I also want the passion, and emotion, and excitement that I heard as a kid when Joe's screaming to the ball "Get down ball" I want to hear Joe stumble to find words to explain a monster shot, like he did when Tony Perez hit a homer into the Red Seats...

I guess I want the best of both worlds... But if this is Joe's final season, I must say I won't miss where he is right now, as a broadcaster, but I'll miss him. I'll miss his passion and emotion over the baseball game as the game should be played... Rember how mad he got at Boone for calling a suicide on a 2-0 count..

If Steve can develop a tenth of that passion added in with the stats and information, I'll be happy to listen to the radio broadcasts.

MikeS21
08-05-2004, 02:14 PM
TeamBoone posted the article where Nuxhall announced his plans to retire. When that article was written, Joe had been through both cancer treatments and a heart attack. It would seem to me that any "forcing" taking place probably originated within his own family.

This would be a non-story if Carl Lindner wasn't the target. "How can we smear Carl Lindner today?" It has taken on a life of its own and all is based on an assumption made by Tommy Helms. And everyone knows what the word "assume" means. Had Helms suggested anyone else, we would not have a thread with 2100 hits and over a 115 replies.

I know, someone may argue that where there's smoke there's fire. But sometimes it's not smoke at all -- its fog. And fog is nothing more than hot air coming in contact with cold air - and I emphasize "hot air.".

Despite all the inuendo and "reading between lines", the fact remains that there is no proof whatsoever that Carl Lindner is the one forcing out Joe Nuxhall. Marty Brenneman has a stronger motive to get rid of Nuxhall than does Carl Lindner.

Billy_Bearcat
08-05-2004, 02:37 PM
His experience in baseball, particularly Reds baseball, brings qualities to the broadcasts that no one else will ever be able to bring or replace. If he botches a few names, makes a few mistakes, or allows a little "dead-air," it doesn't bother me in the least. The things that he brings to the booth each day, far outweigh the few mistakes that he makes, in my opinion. He is a Cincinnati treasure, plain and simple. His phrases, stories and presence on the radio is a welcome relief from the forced, bland, canned, talking head, bore me to death with endless statistics approach that so many bring to the airwaves these days. I enjoy hearing someone like Joe that can bring a smile to my face when I've had a bad day. He's like an old friend, and where I come from, you treat old friends like family. Maybe that is part of the problem. Maybe the Reds aren't like a family anymore.

Amen! :thumbup:

Cedric
08-05-2004, 02:48 PM
I'm with you Chip. I'm sure I have had a time or two of being negative on certain players, but I think the bashing on this site in the game threads get's old. I can understand when someone get's bashed for making mental mistakes because he looks like he isn't trying, but bashing someone as great as Adam Dunn because he fails is a little odd. I'm no angel though, i've criticized a player before, I just don't think it's near the extent of many here.

Chip R
08-05-2004, 03:22 PM
I'm no angel though, i've criticized a player before, I just don't think it's near the extent of many here.We've all criticized players, managers and front office people before and will continue to do so. But there seems to be a double standard for Joe. If Larkin makes a bad play people call for his head. If Joe screws up it's just Good Ol' Joe.

But what I would like to know is if the Reds want to replace Joe for performance reasons or personality reasons. I don't think Joe is really up to snuff to do the broadcasts because of the errors he makes. It'd be different if he did the games on TV so we could see what he missed. But Joe is our eyes when he is doing the games on radio and it's very frustrating to not be able to know what is going on accurately. However Joe has been like this for the past several years and the Reds have kept re-signing him to contracts so they must have not have thought he has done too terrible of a job. But again I am at a loss as to why the Reds keep winding up shooting themselves in the foot like this. This is just like Barry Larkin's situation last season. They dithered about until the bad publicity forced them and Larkin to work out a deal for this year. It all could have been settled behind closed doors long before it came to a head. This all could have been settled before Joe dropped the bombshell yesterday. It's not all the Reds fault. But perhaps Joe wanted to force their hand. He has nothing to lose, really. Surely there can be some sort of middle ground here to solve this and make the Reds and Joe look better. Pointing fingers at Lindner isn't going to help. Maybe Marty can serve as some sort of a mediator to get both sides together on this.

flyer85
08-05-2004, 03:28 PM
They could have Joe do color for Marty and drop his play-by-play responsibilities in addition to a limited schedule. They should have worked with him to let him go out a little more gracefully. Instead we were all lead to believe it was Joe wanting to retire that brought about the broadcast changes.

1990WorldChamps
08-05-2004, 03:35 PM
Despite all the inuendo and "reading between lines", the fact remains that there is no proof whatsoever that Carl Lindner is the one forcing out Joe Nuxhall. Marty Brenneman has a stronger motive to get rid of Nuxhall than does Carl Lindner.

If Marty is calling the shots how is it that he doesn't even have a contract for next year? The theory that Marty is the guy with the power to tell John Allen what to do in this scenario makes no sense whatsoever.

RANDY IN INDY
08-05-2004, 04:05 PM
Whether you like it or not, Marty is a "Hall of Fame" broadcaster, and with that comes some power and pull. I realize that a lot of folks on this forum don't like Marty and Joe, but they are an institution with a lot of Reds fans. The suits in the front office need to handle this with care. I don't think there are a lot of people that give a rat's behind about this front office, and they don't really need to alienate themselves any more than they already have with the fan base. A lot of folks may like some of the moves that this front office has made and is making, but I would wager to say that a lot of folks have just about had their fill of the botched PR situations that come with regularity with this bunch.

Matt700wlw
08-05-2004, 04:05 PM
REDS RELEASE A STATEMENT:




FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Cincinnati Reds’

Statement Regarding Joe Nuxhall

Joe Nuxhall is as integral a part of and as identifiable to this organization as any player or manager who has put on a Reds uniform. We respect and appreciate his many years of service and loyalty. Everyone at the Cincinnati Reds agrees with our fans. He has earned the right to be involved as long as he wishes.

It never has been the intent of the Reds that the 2004 season be Joe’s last with the organization. Joe is aware that we want him to continue to be part of the Reds family for as long as he wants. Specific duties have not been finalized, but earlier this summer our discussions included broadcasting some spring training and regular season games in the future. We have agreed that at some point we will sit down and specifically identify those duties, and Joe is very comfortable with this.

On October 28, 2002 the Reds entered into a two-year contract with Joe for the 2003 and 2004 seasons. In 2004, Joe was scheduled to broadcast 60 games, representative of his 60 years in professional baseball. There was a mutual understanding that the 2004 season was to be Joe’s final season in the broadcast booth, and a public statement was made to that effect at a press conference, which Joe attended.

During Spring Training 2004, Joe approached us about doing more games during the 2004 season. He indicated he was feeling good and wanted to take on the additional workload. After brief discussions with Joe and his representative, the number of games for Joe to broadcast in 2004 was increased to approximately half the games.

##

RANDY IN INDY
08-05-2004, 04:07 PM
That is a smart move.

Chip R
08-05-2004, 04:15 PM
And Joe's power play worked to perfection.

Matt700wlw
08-05-2004, 04:18 PM
And Joe's power play worked to perfection.

Obviously they had to make a statement...it basically says what was said when his "retirement" was announced, which is fine

I'll believe Joe before I believe this organziation that has been lying to us for years about their intent to be competetive

There's more going on than being said....it'll come out at some point on who said what and who didn't

RANDY IN INDY
08-05-2004, 04:20 PM
I'd put my money on Nuxhall's word before this front office's as well.

KronoRed
08-05-2004, 04:35 PM
And Joe's power play worked to perfection.

My thoughts exactly

Got a problem with the FO, complain to the press..they will cave..well except if it involves winning ;)

Chip R
08-05-2004, 04:43 PM
Obviously they had to make a statement...it basically says what was said when his "retirement" was announced, which is fine

I'll believe Joe before I believe this organziation that has been lying to us for years about their intent to be competetive

There's more going on than being said....it'll come out at some point on who said what and who didn't
Whatever happened behind the scenes Joe complained and it looks like he got his way.

Cedric
08-05-2004, 04:43 PM
Anything that keeps Joe announcing games is good in my books, lord knows every corporation and business uses every tactic possible to win, i'm glad when any employee uses any leverage they have.

RANDY IN INDY
08-05-2004, 04:48 PM
That no good Nuxhall. ;)

iammrred
08-05-2004, 06:09 PM
And Joe's power play worked to perfection.

Larkin must have advised him. ;)

TeamCasey
08-05-2004, 06:27 PM
Larkin must have advised him. ;)

:MandJ: :MandJ: :mhcky21:

letsgojunior
08-05-2004, 06:56 PM
CINCINNATI (AP) -- Longtime Cincinnati Reds announcer Joe Nuxhall is upset, certain the team is forcing him out of the broadcasting booth.

``I had to get it off my chest,'' the 76-year-old Nuxhall said this week at a signing for his new book. ``It's been on my mind ever since it started.''

Nuxhall was only 15 when he pitched in relief for the Reds on June 10, 1944. He still holds the distinction as the youngest player ever to appear in the majors.

ADVERTISEMENT


The left-hander has been a Reds broadcaster since 1967, spending almost the last 31 years in the booth with partner Marty Brennaman. The two of them signed two-year extensions on Nov. 1, 2002.

Nuxhall said the Reds made it clear after the 2002 season that they didn't want him to do the 2004 season. His representative, Reuven Katz, worked out a deal with John Allen, the Reds' chief operating officer, to have Nuxhall do 80 games in 2004.

Nuxhall said Wednesday that Allen wasn't the executive forcing his departure.

``It wasn't John Allen, is all I'll say,'' Nuxhall said. ``I don't know who it was. I'm not going to comment until I find out.''

The Reds issued a statement Thursday saying they have talked with him about returning next year in some capacity, although not as an everyday broadcaster.

``Specific duties have not been finalized, but earlier this summer our discussions included broadcasting some spring training and regular-season games in the future,'' the Reds said. ``Joe Nuxhall is as integral a part of, and as identifiable to this organization, as any player or manager who has put on a Reds uniform.

``He has earned the right to be involved as long as he wishes.''

Nuxhall's replacement, Steve Stewart, is working with Brennaman this season to handle the games that Nuxhall does not work. The plan is for Stewart to take over full time for Nuxhall in 2005.

Unassisted
08-05-2004, 07:02 PM
I don't see how this news release is a win for Joe. It says he'll have a new role TBD in 2005, but provides no assurance that he will be broadcasting. I look for the final decision on his role to be announced on Super Bowl week. ;)

creek14
08-05-2004, 07:11 PM
I don't see how this news release is a win for Joe. It says he'll have a new role TBD in 2005, but provides no assurance that he will be broadcasting. I look for the final decision on his role to be announced on Super Bowl week. ;)
This AM on WLW Joe was on with Jim Scott. He pretty much said that he just wants some job with the Reds. He said it would be nice to do a few games with Marty "to keep the relationship alive" and that he doesn't want to mess up the thing with Marty and Steve. (didn't know that they had a thing, but whatever).

So I think that press release might be enough for him.

Or not.

:confused:

ifreelgood
08-05-2004, 07:54 PM
I was a huge Tigers fan, until they forced Ernie Harwell out in the early 90's......and the tigers still havnt earned the respect and trust of the fans after that. MEMO to the REDS!!!!!! Do do such a classless thing!

CrackerJack
08-05-2004, 07:59 PM
I can't believe they are STILL talking about this Nuxhall nonsense on WLW tonight.

Should've known they'd milk this "controversy" for all it's worth.

ZZZzzzzzz.....the Reds said they want him back next year, move on people, move on.