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View Full Version : Do you have a tattoo?



savafan
12-01-2004, 01:44 PM
I made this deal with my girlfriend that when we both can afford it we'll go and get a tattoo together. I really have no idea what I'd get. I have some ideas, and she seems to thing I should go with an armband, but I'm polling people who have tattoos to see what they've had done, or what tattoos they've seen that look pretty cool.

My ideas would be to get my family crest or family symbol done, or the Punisher symbol. Something like that, but I'm not 100% sure what I like.

creek14
12-01-2004, 01:51 PM
Oh good a chance to use one of my favorite lines.

If I had a single rose tattooed on my butt when I was young and firm, it would be an entire bouquet by now.

Just a couple things to consider when getting one. Put it someplace where it can be covered up if you want to go on a really important job interview. And get something that will look okay when it sags. Cause it will sag.

Chip R
12-01-2004, 01:52 PM
I bought a Reds logo temporary tattoo at the Party Source once. I used one or two and gave the other two to my niece and nephew last summer. Boy, they loved them. :) But any permanant ones? Not on this bod. Not that I disapprove of them but I just never felt the need to get one.

GAC
12-01-2004, 01:54 PM
He does (but its a little one) :mhcky21: ....

http://epguides.com/FantasyIsland/cast.jpg

RFS62
12-01-2004, 01:56 PM
I predict that tattoo removal will be a growth industry for the next two decades.

zombie-a-go-go
12-01-2004, 01:58 PM
Yes.

I have Milo (from the Descendents) behind my left ear and the Super Mario Brothers "1-Up" mushroom.... somewhere else.

KittyDuran
12-01-2004, 02:29 PM
One of my sisters has a tattoo - don't know about the other two. Anyhoo, it's a sort of "barbwire" design that only goes around 2/3rds of her left bicep (she couldn't stand the pain). My Dad, even tho' he was in the Navy for 20 years, never got a tattoo. I ask him why once and his reply was that he didn't need to advertise - IMO there were probably other reasons like pain and infection - but it was a interesting take.

I also agree with Creek about her points - tho' tattoos are becoming more commonplace, it is still looked upon as a fashion no-no. I'd also be vary because your taking this on with a girlfriend. If, if you break up will this tattoo be a reminder of your love for her and how will other women feel about it? I personally wouldn't care but some girlfriends (and for women that have a tattoo done with a certain boyfriend, new boyfriends) have an issue with it.

Red Leader
12-01-2004, 02:38 PM
I have a tattoo of a Marine bulldog on my upper left thigh. When I was in high school me and my buddies thought it would be cool to go get a tattoo one night our senior year. They all had ideas and pre-drawn pictures of what they wanted. Me? I was just clueless, so I picked it out when we went. I don't really ever look at it anymore. My 5 year old likes it, though. He thinks it makes me tough. :MandJ:

CTA513
12-01-2004, 02:40 PM
Get a spongebob tattoo.

:gac:

Red Leader
12-01-2004, 02:57 PM
Get a spongebob tattoo.

:gac:


eeeewwww

Danny Serafini
12-01-2004, 03:08 PM
Has anyone ever seen an old person with a good looking tattoo? They always ended up all blurred, you can't read the writing, not good. Personally I've never cared for them, to me they're just clutter. I've really grown tired of the design on the small of the back that every girl and her sister has, it's become so cliche.

RosieRed
12-01-2004, 03:28 PM
I have a tattoo, and I love it. Got it about 9 years ago. It's of a sun, and inside the circle of the sun is a moon and stars. It's on my umm ... chest. ;) Pretty much only shows if I wear a bathing suit or a shirt that is extremely low-cut. (And just so Creek doesn't worry, I'll say it's high enough up that it's not going to really sag. ;) )

I've been ready for years to get another one, but haven't got around to it yet. I know exactly what I want (involves more moons and stars, because I am fascinated with the moon), but I'm not sure where to put it on my body. I'm thinking the base of my neck/top of my back area.

How I decided to get my first tattoo: In college, we bought a bunch of temporary tattoos for a party we were going to. I put one on my chest, loved it, and decided to go get a real one. The next day, I went back to the store and bought another temporary tattoo, took it to a tattoo artist and said "I want it like this, with these changes." My only regret is I had him scale down the size ... now I wish it were bigger.

Puffy
12-01-2004, 03:31 PM
Yes, I have one.

It is on my back with an arrow pointing south, and it says "enter here" - reason number 483 why you should never do drugs!!

Red Leader
12-01-2004, 03:33 PM
I have a tattoo, and I love it. Got it about 9 years ago. It's of a sun, and inside the circle of the sun is a moon and stars. It's on my umm ... chest. ;) Pretty much only shows if I wear a bathing suit or a shirt that is extremely low-cut. (And just so Creek doesn't worry, I'll say it's high enough up that it's not going to really sag. ;) )


I don't understand. Can you post a picture ..umm, I mean PM me a picture of it so I get a better idea of what you're describing? :mhcky21: :p:

CbusRed
12-01-2004, 03:38 PM
this is the tatoo I want to get, maybe on my arm, or on my upper back..


http://www.gildia.pl/muzyka/wykonawcy/pearl_jam/stickman/stickman1.gif

http://www.gildia.pl/muzyka/wykonawcy/pearl_jam/stickman/stickman_tatoo1.jpg

CbusRed
12-01-2004, 03:38 PM
Hmm, Image tag failure...

letsgojunior
12-01-2004, 03:42 PM
Yes, I have one.

It is on my back with an arrow pointing south, and it says "enter here" - reason number 483 why you should never do drugs!!

Oh my:lol:

RosieRed
12-01-2004, 03:48 PM
I don't understand. Can you post a picture ..umm, I mean PM me a picture of it so I get a better idea of what you're describing? :mhcky21: :p:

:MandJ: :MandJ:

Sure thing RL. Check your PMs. ;)

My tattoo looks similar to this, except there's no circle around it, and the rays of the sun are longer and more curvy. And there's stars next to the moon. Otherwise, it looks just like this!

http://lnt.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pG01-1100917reg.jpg

Red Leader
12-01-2004, 03:49 PM
Why can't I get Janet Jackson's wardrobe malfunction out of my head everytime I see a picture of something like that? :dflynn: :dflynn:

OnBaseMachine
12-01-2004, 04:13 PM
Barbwire on my bicep

I'm thinking about getting one on my back...

CougarQuest
12-01-2004, 07:55 PM
I have a tattoo of human skin on my shoulder. Cost me $400.00, but it was totally worth it. The guy had a secret ink needle that didn't hurt at all. And it looks perfectly like human skin!

pedro
12-01-2004, 08:04 PM
as a matter of fact i do.......

http://www.bodymod.org/tat/TatImages/66/BodyModDOTorg-face.jpg

westofyou
12-01-2004, 08:07 PM
Looks like Guy

pedro
12-01-2004, 08:12 PM
Looks like Guy


yes it does.

Raisor
12-01-2004, 09:17 PM
Mom+Dad=True Love

cincinnati chili
12-01-2004, 11:20 PM
Yes, I have one.

It is on my back with an arrow pointing south, and it says "enter here" - reason number 483 why you should never do drugs!!

That's a lot like mine. It's an image of Elmer Fudd on my left buttock, aiming his rifle toward old glory, shouting "Come outta dat hole, you waskely wabbit!"

MWM
12-01-2004, 11:24 PM
That's a lot like mine. It's an image of Elmer Fudd on my left buttock, aiming his rifle toward old glory, shouting "Come outta dat hole, you waskely wabbit!"

:D :D :D

OK. I've got to ask. Are you being serious or is that just a joke?

westofyou
12-01-2004, 11:25 PM
That's a lot like mine. It's an image of Elmer Fudd on my left buttock, aiming his rifle toward old glory, shouting "Come outta dat hole, you waskely wabbit!"

Since I've met you I now have the visual...... I am not pleased.

Red in Chicago
12-02-2004, 12:02 AM
i've got two...got the first one about 15 years ago and the second one 2 years ago...one is woody woodpecker...the other is a the wishbone c for cincinnati with the number 14 inside...i love them both, but the chicks really dig my pecker :mhcky21:

Super_Barry11
12-02-2004, 12:05 AM
the other is a the wishbone c for cincinnati with the number 14 inside

That's exactly what I want, only with a the number eleven on the inside... Just something small on my hip. One of my friends has the Boston Red Sox logo on her hip, and it's really cute. However, I'm hesitant to put something permanent on my body like that... Maybe I'm just a weenie!! :MandJ:

Larkin Fan
12-02-2004, 12:15 AM
I predict that tattoo removal will be a growth industry for the next two decades.

Dude, that's a prediction that's pretty much a given. Cosmetic surgeons are already reporting an over 40% increase in tattoo removals in that last two years.

No way, no how will I ever get a tattoo. Can't stand the thought of having something permanent there. And even if you do get it "removed", there are still very obvious signs of the tattoo that exist because the whole thing can't be erased. Yikes.

savafan
12-02-2004, 02:01 AM
Barbwire on my bicep



I'm thinking of something similar to this. Does it go all the way around your arm? About how much would you say that it hurt? I have an pretty high pain tolerance, but I'm curious what I may be in for.

Super_Barry11
12-02-2004, 02:14 AM
One of the guys I'm dating (I know, I know, it's too much fun just to pick one!) wants another tattoo... He already has a cross on his left arm (I'm pretty sure it's his left...), and now he wants an armband on his right bicep of an Indian type necklace with a dreamcatcher, buffalohead, eagle, and arrowhead right on the outside of his arm...






(Yikes) :eek:

remdog
12-02-2004, 10:29 AM
Tatoo on a woman? Oh! You mean a Tramp Stamp! :)

Rem

savafan
12-02-2004, 12:14 PM
Tatoo on a woman? Oh! You mean a Tramp Stamp! :)

Rem

Hey there, that's my lady you're talking about!

Yachtzee
12-02-2004, 11:15 PM
I have one that says "Objects are larger than they appear." ;)

RBA
12-02-2004, 11:23 PM
Tatoos aren't appealing to me. Maybe, I'm just boring.

FrenchD1
12-03-2004, 12:40 AM
I have 2:
-On my right arm is a logo that Bob Dylan uses as a backdrop on his stage. It's a cool looking eye with a crown above it.
-My other one (which is actually the first one I got) is a Red wishbone C. I'm thinking about getting the "Reds" put inside of the C like on the jerseys but I can't decide

I'll warn you that I think it's addicting. However it doesn't really hurt that bad. I tell people it feels like a severe sunburn. Usually will hurt the entire day you get it done and if it's big then it may hurt the next day too. It doesn't hurt bad enough to not get it done if you want it.

As others have said, get it somewhere you can hide it if needed. Mine are both on my upper arms so a t shirt easily covers them. I don't really even think about them until I take my shirt off. I love tattoo's and I think they look hot on chicks (as long as it's in moderation).

Red in Chicago
12-03-2004, 01:16 AM
I'll warn you that I think it's addicting.

couldn't agree with you more...they are addicting...if i could get someone to go with me, i'd probably have about 6 more than what i have already.

OnBaseMachine
04-14-2005, 05:43 PM
I'm thinking of something similar to this. Does it go all the way around your arm? About how much would you say that it hurt? I have an pretty high pain tolerance, but I'm curious what I may be in for.

I'm sorry..I just saw this. Yeah, it goes all the way around. It hurts a little bit under the arm..feels like a bee sting.

The reason I brought this back to page 1 is I'm thinking about getting another tattoo soon. I'm gonna get my nickname on my left arm, and either barbwire or this (http://www.detritus.org/mike/tattoo/tattoo.jpg) on my left arm.

Johnny Footstool
04-14-2005, 06:30 PM
I've really grown tired of the design on the small of the back that every girl and her sister has, it's become so cliche.

Ahh, the Tramp Stamp, staple of modern fashion.

Tatoos, like every other trend, will all become cliched and trite when the current generation reaches middle age and starts to have children. I look forward to that day.

SunDeck
04-14-2005, 06:56 PM
I do not have a tattoo. There is nothing that I want to say, display or adhere to so badly that I would ever imbed it in my skin. And besides, it would look like a prune when I'm 70.

RosieRed
04-14-2005, 07:34 PM
I remember this thread, but I do not remember the phrase "tramp stamp" in it.

As a woman with a tattoo, all I can say is: Real nice. :rolleyes:

Big Donkey
04-14-2005, 08:32 PM
Has anyone ever seen an old person with a good looking tattoo? They always ended up all blurred, you can't read the writing, not good. Personally I've never cared for them, to me they're just clutter. I've really grown tired of the design on the small of the back that every girl and her sister has, it's become so cliche.

Peach on, Brother Serafini.

Ravenlord
04-14-2005, 08:35 PM
sava, do your family crest on the front of your shoulder, bicep, or have encompass a large amount of your back.

MWM
04-14-2005, 09:32 PM
If there was a public stock available for a tatoo removal company, I'd invest all my money in it. It would be worth a fortune 20 years from now. I actually don't mind tatoos, but I've always been afraid to do things where there's no way to reverse it. I think the day will come when tatoo removal will be a very lucrative business.

Dom Heffner
04-15-2005, 01:32 AM
Has anyone ever seen an old person with a good looking tattoo?

Has anyone seen an old person that looks good without one?

I'll look bad when I'm old because I'll be old, not because I have a tattoo. Creek's observation sounds good, but my butt is going to look bad when I'm 65, whether I have a tattoo on it or not. :)

It's not like you'll be sitting at the nursing home going, "Man, if only I didn't have that tattoo, I'd look great."

CincyRedsFan30
04-15-2005, 02:06 AM
If there was a public stock available for a tatoo removal company, I'd invest all my money in it. It would be worth a fortune 20 years from now. I actually don't mind tatoos, but I've always been afraid to do things where there's no way to reverse it. I think the day will come when tatoo removal will be a very lucrative business.

This is exactly why I'd never even consider getting one.

My dad got one when he was much younger and had it "grinded" off once he got old enough that he didn't like what it looked like. The scar left wasn't pretty.

Johnny Footstool
04-15-2005, 02:16 AM
It's not like you'll be sitting at the nursing home going, "Man, if only I didn't have that tattoo, I'd look great."

No, you'll be sitting in the nursing home going, "What the hell was I thinking when I was young?"

919191
04-15-2005, 02:32 AM
No, you'll be sitting in the nursing home going, "What the hell was I thinking when I was young?"
Most of us will think that tatoo or not. :redface:

SirFelixCat
04-15-2005, 04:13 AM
I have 5, with more to come. All of them mark important times in my life and I will never regret getting any of them. And the "tramp stamp" comment was overboard y'all. I tend to think the right tat in the right spot on a woman is sexy. To each their own. Do not judge lest ye be judged.

Johnny Footstool
04-15-2005, 10:27 AM
And the "tramp stamp" comment was overboard y'all.

Sorry about that. No offense intended.

But that *is* what people are calling those tatoos women get in the small of their backs.

westofyou
04-15-2005, 10:51 AM
Sorry about that. No offense intended.

But that *is* what people are calling those tatoos women get in the small of their backs.

Yep.. I've heard it too.

I'm going to a wedding on the Cape this summer, the bride had a big ole tatoo of Alice talking to the Caterpiller whilst he smokes his hookah, right on the back of her shoulder.

So much for a backless gown.

gonelong
04-15-2005, 10:52 AM
Sorry about that. No offense intended.

But that *is* what people are calling those tatoos women get in the small of their backs.

I can see that, I have heard them called "butt hats".

GL

gonelong
04-15-2005, 10:57 AM
Has anyone seen an old person that looks good without one?

Ann Margret and Sophia Loren come to mind. I know a lady in her early 50's that is flat out smoking hot, could pass for hot mid 30's.

I guess it depends on what "old" is. I haven't seen too many hot 80 year olds lately.

<SNL> There goes a blue-haired beauty.</SNL>

GL

zombie-a-go-go
04-15-2005, 11:05 AM
Sorry about that. No offense intended.

But that *is* what people are calling those tatoos women get in the small of their backs.

Doesn't change the fact that it's a mean-spirited and derogatory thing to say.

Not calling you out here; it's just another example of how, even in today's society, we still belittle and mock those who are different than ourselves.

RedsFan75
04-15-2005, 12:23 PM
Evidently the removal process is extremely painful.

A manager that I work with in Philly has a tat of a 6 pointed star on the back of his shoulder... after his son started asking what it was he decided to have it removed.

His statement was along the lines of "never experienced this much pain for this long a period' He said just as the pain is subsiding, it's time to go for another treatment.

Johnny Footstool
04-15-2005, 12:52 PM
Doesn't change the fact that it's a mean-spirited and derogatory thing to say.

Not calling you out here; it's just another example of how, even in today's society, we still belittle and mock those who are different than ourselves.

I must be losing my PC sensibilities. I thought "tramp" was a fairly innocuous label, especially compared to the wide variety of vulgar derogatory terms that people use to refer to women.

Again, I apologize. I certainly wasn't directing the comment at anyone -- I was just pointing out the term that people use.

RosieRed
04-15-2005, 03:30 PM
I must be losing my PC sensibilities. I thought "tramp" was a fairly innocuous label, especially compared to the wide variety of vulgar derogatory terms that people use to refer to women.

Again, I apologize. I certainly wasn't directing the comment at anyone -- I was just pointing out the term that people use.

To this woman, "tramp" is not a fairly innocuous label. It's pretty much right up there with ****. I can't come up with an example of when using the word "tramp" in refernce to a woman wouldn't be derogatory.

Not to mention that, in this case, there doesn't appear to be a similar term for men who have tattoos on their back, or on the lower part of their stomach, or wherever.

Anyway, I was just surprised by the term, and surprised it showed up here. I've never heard it before.

Jaycint
04-15-2005, 07:29 PM
I have my UC bearclaw on my left shoulder...
:dancingco (don't know if that smilie is appropriate but it's my favorite one)

Falls City Beer
04-15-2005, 07:58 PM
I'm leading the charge that says people without tattoos are now in the minority ("non-tats" R people too :dunno: )

Seriously, among my friends, I am the "different" one (no tattoos, zero desire to get one). But if someone pointed a howitzer at my head and demanded I get one, I'd get one of my face on my face. So freakin' postmodern.

cincinnati chili
04-18-2005, 01:25 AM
I must be losing my PC sensibilities. I thought "tramp" was a fairly innocuous label, especially compared to the wide variety of vulgar derogatory terms that people use to refer to women.

Again, I apologize. I certainly wasn't directing the comment at anyone -- I was just pointing out the term that people use.

I wouldn't apologize. I think it's funny. In fact, I know at least one tatooed woman who would think it's VERY funny.

Some of my best friends have tattoos. ;)

creek14
07-24-2005, 08:55 AM
Political question for the new age: Do you tattoo?

Before we get to the part where I'm asked if Gov. Janet Napolitano has a tattoo, we need to put the current craze for getting "inked" into perspective.

There will come a time, 30 or 40 years from now, when young women will point to their mothers or grandmothers and laughingly refer to a certain type of body decoration as an "old lady tattoo."

A Harris poll from 2003 found that 16 percent of Americans have tattoos and that a whopping 64 percent of those people are in their 20s and 30s. And it's increasing. Which means that sometime in the future a large number of American women in their mature years will carry a small tribal symbol, a butterfly, a flower or some type of scrolled design on the small of their backs. Or just above the nubs of their ankles. Or both. advertisement

Of course, these festively adorned females will be joined in nursing homes by elderly gentlemen with withering strands of tattooed barbed wire strung years before around their now shriveled biceps.

They'll have gotten the tattoos in their teens or 20s, a decision that will brand their generation in the same way that soldiers and sailors from World War II got hearts tattooed on their chests with the word "Mother" scrolled across them, or had the names of their ships or military outfits inscribed on their forearms.

One day last week, a young man in his 20s called my office to ask if I had a tattoo. I got the impression from background noise that the answer to his question would determine who would buy the next round.

Some of our esteemed educators and politicians believe that popular culture has transformed America's youth into a self-consumed and mindless generation. I mentioned this to the kid on the phone, then added, "You, apparently, are a perfect example of why that is not true."

It was the first interesting question I'd gotten in weeks. The only thing that could have made it better is if the young man had somehow squeezed current events or politics into it.

"OK," he said smugly, "do you know if Janet Napolitano has a tattoo? Or maybe John McCain?"

It was tempting. I got so far as to look up the phone numbers for the governor and the senator, but I couldn't make the calls. These are personal matters. And if for some reason the answer to the tattoo question came back "yes," protocol would have required me follow up with why, when, what and, most uncomfortably, where.

However, based solely on the personalities of these two people I would say this: I don't know if Gov. Napolitano has a tattoo, but she shouldn't. Likewise, I don't know if Sen. McCain has a tattoo, but he should.

The late Sen. Barry Goldwater, Arizona's one-time Republican presidential candidate, had a tattoo. It included four small blue dots (representing snake bites) and a half moon on his left hand. It had to do with him being a "chief" of the Smokis, a collection of mostly White men who dressed up in Native American attire, painted their bodies and imitated traditional ceremonies like the Hopi snake dance. (For the record, I will not be asking Napolitano or McCain if they've ever done that, either.)

As for myself, the answer is no, I don't have any tattoos. From time to time I've thought of getting one, but I never have. And as the years pass I find that there is less and less "canvas" of a suitably taut nature to be properly decorated, severely limiting both the what and the where.

I could go with Sen. Goldwater's snakebite motif, I suppose, but by the time I get around to it I'm afraid there will be no way to tell the difference between the tattoo and the liver spots.

RFS62
07-24-2005, 08:59 AM
Geezers with tattoos in 20 to 30 years will be just as funny as aging hippies are today.

creek14
07-24-2005, 09:05 AM
aging hippies
Hey!! I resemble that remark.
http://www.hippieshop.com/mas_assets/thumb/1911.jpg

RFS62
07-24-2005, 09:08 AM
Yeah, I do too.

That's how I know it's funny.

Tommyjohn25
07-24-2005, 09:49 PM
I have one tattoo, I teach Kung-fu (gung-fu is actually the proper way to say and spell it) and I have our school symbol tattooed on my shoulder, it means school of the dragon. I plan on getting three more, all symbolic of our school and our style. All of them will be concealed in normal clothing though.

RFS62
07-24-2005, 09:56 PM
I teach Kung-fu


Note to self... be nice to Tommyjohn25.

:wave:

savafan
07-24-2005, 10:17 PM
So what good, reputable tattoo studios are there in the Dayton area?

SunDeck
07-24-2005, 11:12 PM
Not tattoos for me, but I always thought if I did get one, it would be on my butt and say, "this end up".

Never have even had the slightest itch for one. Could be because of a guy I used to work with who was in the Navy. He had these hula girls on his forearms and they were all blurry. I asked him why and he said they were as sharp as a picture when he got them, but that they just did that after thirty years. Kind of turned me off, I guess.

Tommyjohn25
07-24-2005, 11:26 PM
Note to self... be nice to Tommyjohn25.

:wave:

:D It's actually very difficult to get under my skin, mainly due to my training. Martial Arts has been one of the best things that ever happened to me, I was headed down the wrong path once when I was younger and when I found gung-fu it changed my perspective on a lot of things in a matter of weeks. I instantly got hooked on it since it helped me accel in so many areas, work ethic, health/well being, and taught me most importantly to be humble, respectful, and to treat others well. When I got certified to teach I even fell more in love with it, I saw how it changed people for the better and I liked that feeling of being involved with that evolution in people. I have seen it turn around drug users, violent people, and people with low self-esteem.

I have been teaching since '98 and wouldn't trade it for the world. I actually don't even care about the money involved with it, I honestly feel fulfilled when I see a student progress to get past their own problems, because at that point it's helping them the same way it helped me a long time ago.

Sorry, didn't mean to go on like that, but I love talking about it as it is one of my greatest passions along with my family, friends, and of course, our Cincinnati Reds!! But now you can see the true meaning behind my reasoning to get my tattoo(s).

Tommyjohn25
07-24-2005, 11:28 PM
So what good, reputable tattoo studios are there in the Dayton area?

I got my first one at Glen Scott in the Oregon District and they did a good job, and I went to check out a place called "Monkey Bones" in Beavercreek for my next ones(s) and it looked like they do good work and it looked very clean...which is VERY important.

savafan
07-25-2005, 11:52 AM
I got my first one at Glen Scott in the Oregon District and they did a good job, and I went to check out a place called "Monkey Bones" in Beavercreek for my next ones(s) and it looked like they do good work and it looked very clean...which is VERY important.

Thanks, Glen Scott was actually who I was considering.

creek14
07-25-2005, 11:54 AM
Hey Tommy, where do you teach? Creek jr is very interested in lessons.

RFS62
07-25-2005, 12:27 PM
Hey Tommy, where do you teach? Creek jr is very interested in lessons.

Oh great. Now Creek Jr. is gonna be able to beat me up too!

Very cool, Tommy. I still want to be buds, though. Just sayin'.

Tommyjohn25
07-25-2005, 01:28 PM
Very cool, Tommy. I still want to be buds, though. Just sayin'.

:D No problem RFS, one can never have enough friends, besides, we're all Reds fans right? All Reds fans are friends of mine!! ;)

Tommyjohn25
07-25-2005, 01:41 PM
Hey Tommy, where do you teach? Creek jr is very interested in lessons.

I'll PM you more info, I also posted a link to our schools website with my sig. If you click on the gallery on the left of the home page you can see some pictures of me and my class. So first click on gallery, then go to "feature photos" on the left of that page, then click on "Ohio school". That will bring you to a picture gallery of some photos of myself, my students, and my instructor. The first picture of me is of very poor quality, but the rest are okay. And please excuse the way I look in the first few as I had just taken by Black Sash test and was a tiny bit fatigued, to say the least ;) . The ones at the bottom of the page are a bit more recent.

Tommyjohn25
07-25-2005, 05:58 PM
Thanks, Glen Scott was actually who I was considering.

You won't be disappointed, they do good work.

savafan
04-21-2007, 05:21 PM
I just wanted to revisit this thread, because now that I've turned 30, my views on this have changed somewhat.

redsfan30
04-21-2007, 05:39 PM
I just wanted to revisit this thread, because now that I've turned 30, my views on this have changed somewhat.

I assume you didn't wind up getting one then?

savafan
04-21-2007, 05:54 PM
I assume you didn't wind up getting one then?

No, I have not. And thank God, because I'm not with the girl I was when I created this thread.

Red in Chicago
04-21-2007, 06:46 PM
A tattoo is something that you should only get because YOU want it. A lot of thought needs to be put in them before you actually do it. As I stated previously, I have two and love them both. I still want more, but haven't decided what to get. Every now and then, my grandma would doodle with a pen and draw some pictures for me. I kept a lot of them and was thinking about having one of them put on me as kind of a memorial to her.

I haven't gone back through the entire thread, but if it hasn't been mentioned yet, you should check out the show Miami Ink. It's a great show about people that go into a shop and get tattoos. It gives them a chance to tell the story behind the tat they're getting and shows the process. It's one of my favorite shows. I absolutely love Kat (one of the artists) and would love to have her do a tat for me. She does a lot of portraits and religious work in black and grey.

RBA
04-21-2007, 07:03 PM
My body is like a work of art. Would anyone spray paint over the Mona Lisa? :cool:

Matt700wlw
04-21-2007, 08:02 PM
I do not...they look good on other people though.

WMR
04-21-2007, 08:29 PM
Reading through this thread, it's funny people got offended over "tramp stamp." That term has become almost accepted nomenclature at this point. I hear it all the time.

The best line about those tattoos in that lower back area is in Wedding Crashers: "Dude, it's a bulls-eye."

GIK
04-21-2007, 09:34 PM
I got one this last Fall on my arm. It's a family thing so I have no worry about it aging gracefully with me. :)

vaticanplum
04-21-2007, 10:07 PM
Reading through this thread, it's funny people got offended over "tramp stamp." That term has become almost accepted nomenclature at this point. I hear it all the time.

Accepted by whom? Common nomenclature among whom? I've never heard it before.

I'm not fond of branding in any form, particularly with a term that goes back to a severe double standard between the sexual behavior of men and women. Guess I don't have a sense of humor.

SunDeck
04-21-2007, 10:49 PM
I'd probably end up putting something stupid on myself.


http://www.hanzismatter.com/2004/12/abusive-husband-pimps-me-out.html

guttle11
04-21-2007, 10:58 PM
I have one. It's clear.

RosieRed
04-21-2007, 11:39 PM
Since this thread was started, I've gotten three more tattoos. Total of four now. Fifth one to come soon. Probably more after that.

WMR
04-21-2007, 11:44 PM
Accepted by whom? Common nomenclature among whom? I've never heard it before.

I'm not fond of branding in any form, particularly with a term that goes back to a severe double standard between the sexual behavior of men and women. Guess I don't have a sense of humor.

All my friends?

Maybe we run in different circles.

When we see a chick with a tattoo right above her butt wearing a shirt clearly designed to 'show off' the tattoo, it's a tramp stamp. (shrug- do I owe Rem royalties for using that?) If I saw a guy with the same tattoo, the term would be the same.

vaticanplum
04-21-2007, 11:49 PM
All my friends?

Maybe we run in different circles.

I guess we do.

remdog
04-22-2007, 12:54 AM
All my friends?

Maybe we run in different circles.

When we see a chick with a tattoo right above her butt wearing a shirt clearly designed to 'show off' the tattoo, it's a tramp stamp. (shrug- do I owe Rem royalties for using that?) If I saw a guy with the same tattoo, the term would be the same.

If you look at this thread it goes back to Dec., 2004. I heard the term 'Tramp Stamp' sometime that summer from my boss, who was about 30 at the time.

I may be an old guy but I work with a lot of people in their 20's and 30's so I hear a lot of current terms. One woman, in her 20's, went into great detail about exactly what and where she was going to get her Tat. Tramp Stamp is probably the only part of that description I can post here. :)

The term has pretty much run it's course here in Southern California and I don't hear the reference much anymore. For that matter, the propensity for young women to feel the need for a tat also seems to have dropped off. Guys, not so much. (That's just my informal observations, for what they are worth.)

Rem

WMR
04-22-2007, 01:01 AM
Yeah, Rem, referring to it as a 'bulls-eye' is probably the prevalent comment nowadays, courtesy of Wedding Crashers.

WMR
04-22-2007, 01:03 AM
I think the propensity/desire for girls to get a tattoo in that specific location--right above the butt--has DEFINITELY fallen off b/c of that term and how quickly a tattoo in that spot became cliched.

Ravenlord
04-22-2007, 01:33 AM
went to a parlor yesterday to discuss inking.

Lady Raven really likes the idea of this spooky li'l cat on her right shoulder

and i'm finally going to be getting my cross on my right bicep and a Thor's hammer on my left bicep.

Yachtzee
04-22-2007, 02:27 AM
went to a parlor yesterday to discuss inking.

Lady Raven really likes the idea of this spooky li'l cat on her right shoulder

and i'm finally going to be getting my cross on my right bicep and a Thor's hammer on my left bicep.

What about Grabthar's hammer?

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l146/GalleryGuru/Featured%20Actor%20Threads/galaxyquest.jpg

Ravenlord
04-22-2007, 03:54 AM
What about Grabthar's hammer?

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l146/GalleryGuru/Featured%20Actor%20Threads/galaxyquest.jpg

nah...maybe if i had a third a fourth arm for fiction. the right arm is what i believe, the left is where i'm from. eventually, i'll be sleeved, as tradition dictates...but it'll be a slow process because tatoos are are earned, not a whimsy.

WMR
04-22-2007, 04:11 AM
nah...maybe if i had a third a fourth arm for fiction. the right arm is what i believe, the left is where i'm from. eventually, i'll be sleeved, as tradition dictates...but it'll be a slow process because tatoos are are earned, not a whimsy.

What tradition do you follow?

When you say sleeved, do you mean your entire arms will be covered in tats?

How do you 'earn' them?

savafan
04-22-2007, 04:34 AM
I think the propensity/desire for girls to get a tattoo in that specific location--right above the butt--has DEFINITELY fallen off b/c of that term and how quickly a tattoo in that spot became cliched.

So, my fiancee tells me tonight that she wants to get a tattoo, and that she doesn't want a tramp stamp. I had to laugh, simply due to her timing at breaking this news to me now.

WMR
04-22-2007, 04:38 AM
So, my fiancee tells me tonight that she wants to get a tattoo, and that she doesn't want a tramp stamp. I had to laugh, simply due to her timing at breaking this news to me now.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

That's so funny.

SirFelixCat
04-22-2007, 08:49 AM
A tattoo is something that you should only get because YOU want it. A lot of thought needs to be put in them before you actually do it.


Agree 100%. I have 5 and each and every one marks a special, important event or moment in my life and I do not regret a single one of them. The oldest one now is almost 14 years old and I still am glad that I got it.

To each their own, though. That said, I really do hate how some people really are judged one way or the other all due to the fact that they choose to use their body to express themselves. I mean, I'm 6'2", hair down to my shoulder blades, earrings and 5 tats. Does that make me 'weird' or 'non-professional'? I don't think so in the least. But again, to each their own.

savafan
04-22-2007, 08:54 AM
To each their own, though. That said, I really do hate how some people really are judged one way or the other all due to the fact that they choose to use their body to express themselves. I mean, I'm 6'2", hair down to my shoulder blades, earrings and 5 tats. Does that make me 'weird' or 'non-professional'? I don't think so in the least. But again, to each their own.

I think our society still says yes, but I agree, it shouldn't make a difference.

Redlegs23
04-22-2007, 12:57 PM
I could care less if anyone has a tatoo or not, but it really surprises me to hear some people still say they've never heard of the term "tramp stamp". It's a fairly common term when talking about that type of tatoo from what I've heard.

vaticanplum
04-22-2007, 12:57 PM
went to a parlor yesterday to discuss inking.

Lady Raven really likes the idea of this spooky li'l cat on her right shoulder

and i'm finally going to be getting my cross on my right bicep and a Thor's hammer on my left bicep.

I love that you call your wife/girlfriend Lady Raven :laugh:

I might have one if I weren't so terrified of needles. I'm very prone to fainting; I doubt I'd ever make it out of the chair.

I know that a lot of people think of them as trendy or short-sighted, and I think that's true in some cases, but I've seen some really beautiful tattoos over the years. Some people really do view them as a piece of art that you can carry with you, something that means a great deal or represents something in your life that you want to keep with you. Yes, there are generic and embarrassing tattoos out there (one of my cousins has a huge orange-and-blue blowfish named Hootie above her butt -- I wonder how she feels about that) but there are an equal amount of very personal, much-loved tattoos out there too.

I've known exactly what I wanted to get and where I would get it for about 10-12 years now. It hasn't changed a smidgen; if anything, the reasons I always wanted it are even more appropriate now. I'm pretty sure I would love it. But I have that needle thing.

vaticanplum
04-22-2007, 12:59 PM
I could care less if anyone has a tatoo or not, but it really surprises me to hear some people still say they've never heard of the term "tramp stamp". It's a fairly common term when talking about that type of tatoo from what I've heard.

People, you can keep saying you're surprised all you want, but I'm 28 and know a ton of people with tattoos -- including a few who are really into tattoos -- and I've never heard this term, ever. I think the last time I ever heard the word "tramp" at all was in relation to a Disney movie. Those kinds of terms simply don't come up in conversation with people I know.

Cedric
04-22-2007, 12:59 PM
So, my fiancee tells me tonight that she wants to get a tattoo, and that she doesn't want a tramp stamp. I had to laugh, simply due to her timing at breaking this news to me now.

A girl I work with got a tat on that spot and now wants it lazered off. I honestly think that phrase has hurt her a bit. She complains about it all the time now.

creek14
04-22-2007, 01:24 PM
I've heard tramp stamp and a$$ cap. Both are so flattering.

LvJ
04-22-2007, 02:02 PM
I heard "Tramp Stamp" for the first time the other day.

I don't have any tattoos, but I'd like one. This one to be exact:

http://alexgrey.net/drwngs/eyeohart.jpg

Minus the wings.

RosieRed
04-22-2007, 02:24 PM
I might have one if I weren't so terrified of needles. I'm very prone to fainting; I doubt I'd ever make it out of the chair.

I hate needles too, and had the whole tattoo shop making fun of me when I got my back tattoo because I almost passed out. Twice. It's funny how your mind works, because it's not the actual pain that gets to me, it's the thought of the pain. But for me, it's worth putting up with it all to have something that will last forever.

The whole thing with the "tramp stamp" that kind of sucks (besides the nice term for it) is that the lower back is one of a few places people can get a tattoo that will show only when they want it to show. If you're looking for a spot to get a tattoo that won't really show, you really don't have a ton of options, and that's probably more true for girls since, well, we have options for clothing that shows more skin.

And LvJ, I think that would be a really cool tattoo, especially if you got a great artist to do it.

Matt700wlw
04-22-2007, 02:57 PM
I've heard tramp stamp and a$$ cap. Both are so flattering.

Ass neck tattoo....

sonny
04-22-2007, 04:46 PM
I heard "Tramp Stamp" for the first time the other day.

I don't have any tattoos, but I'd like one. This one to be exact:

http://alexgrey.net/drwngs/eyeohart.jpg

Minus the wings.

will that stretch across your whole back?

personally i want to get a full body tattoo of myself, but 6 inches taller.:p:

LvJ
04-22-2007, 04:56 PM
will that stretch across your whole back? I'd rather just get the heart/eye/cross on my shoulder.

Degenerate39
04-22-2007, 06:23 PM
"I have a tatoo on my penis of a bigger penis" - Ron Jeremy

Ravenlord
04-22-2007, 10:51 PM
What tradition do you follow?Norse


When you say sleeved, do you mean your entire arms will be covered in tats?yes.


How do you 'earn' them?depends on what you do, and what you consider earning them. if you simply define as 'earning them' just going out to try and make the money for them, that's not the idea.

paintmered
04-22-2007, 10:57 PM
I've heard tramp stamp and a$$ cap. Both are so flattering.

While derogatory in nature, "tramp stamp" has become the accepted nomenclature for that kind of tattoo at least among my friends.

WMR
04-22-2007, 11:10 PM
depends on what you do, and what you consider earning them. if you simply define as 'earning them' just going out to try and make the money for them, that's not the idea.

Well I meant for you, RL.

I find such beliefs fascinating.

WMR
04-22-2007, 11:10 PM
While derogatory in nature, "tramp stamp" has become the accepted nomenclature for that kind of tattoo at least among my friends.

LOLOL Paint we must run in similar circles. ;) :laugh: :devil:

Ltlabner
04-22-2007, 11:38 PM
Black spade and 3 iron crosses high up on my arm. No real signifigance other than they looked cool on the tatoo parlor's wall.

Got them high up on the arm so they are very easy to cover, even with a short sleeved T-shirt.

Ltlabner
04-22-2007, 11:40 PM
Those kinds of terms simply don't come up in conversation with people I know.

Wow. I guess my circle of friends just isn't that sophisticated and classy then because I've heard that term being used for a while now.

vaticanplum
04-22-2007, 11:47 PM
Wow. I guess my circle of friends just isn't that sophisticated and classy then because I've heard that term being used for a while now.

Why do I suddenly feel attacked? I've simply stated that I've never heard it. My friends use plenty of derogatory terms at times, but by chance or design ones that have negative sexual connotations don't come up, ever.

Sheesh, people. I was responding to the assertion that it's absolute common nomenclature. I just don't think it is because I'd genuinely never heard it in my life until I read this thread.

Ravenlord
04-23-2007, 12:40 AM
Well I meant for you, RL.

I find such beliefs fascinating.i haven't earned any as of yet. life is what shall cause them to be earned. to this point, i have my relgious conviction (the cross), and my ancestory (Thor's Hammer) that i've had spent much of time delving into and learning about.

i don't like going to past things to justify what would be new things (more than the first two tatoos), but a good example would be when i was 15. i spent an entire fall, winter, and spring running sprints and running distance. by the baseball season, i had gone from 8.6 second 60-yard dash to a 5.85 (slightly better than Major League average). conquering the body through discipline, that would have been worthy of a Sword or a bind rune of Fehu and Uruz and Rada.

gonelong
04-23-2007, 12:46 AM
Sheesh, people. I was responding to the assertion that it's absolute common nomenclature. I just don't think it is because I'd genuinely never heard it in my life until I read this thread.

It has to be pretty common if I have heard of it.

I'll bet you a beer that if you ask your circle what a "tramp stamp" is, more than 1/2 will know.

GL

Ltlabner
04-23-2007, 08:42 AM
Why do I suddenly feel attacked? I've simply stated that I've never heard it. My friends use plenty of derogatory terms at times, but by chance or design ones that have negative sexual connotations don't come up, ever.

Sheesh, people. I was responding to the assertion that it's absolute common nomenclature. I just don't think it is because I'd genuinely never heard it in my life until I read this thread.

Not attacking you, but you have shared several times before that you tend to run with an "artsy fartsy" crowd so it isn't suprising that you've not heard such a term from them.

And the premise that because you and your circle of what, 30-50 friends, define what is common place langauge/thought is laughable. Just because your small group of friends (small relative to the population at large) hasn't heard of something doesn't mean it isn't relatively common.

GAC
04-23-2007, 09:03 AM
My wife tatooed the wall in our garage with the front of the van. Left a real nice imprint on the license plate in the drywall.

Does that count? :lol:

TeamCasey
04-23-2007, 12:52 PM
While derogatory in nature, "tramp stamp" has become the accepted nomenclature for that kind of tattoo at least among my friends.

It's better than **** butt.

minus5
04-23-2007, 01:30 PM
Common or not, my wife has 3 tats on her back and if someone used that term to her, they'd be getting a bruised colored tattoo around their eye.

RichRed
04-23-2007, 02:19 PM
I have a tattoo of the word "TATTOO" on my forehead. Is that weird?

But seriously folks, I don't personally have anything against 'em, they're just not for me.

deltachi8
04-23-2007, 05:02 PM
I have never heard the term "tramp stamp" before this thread either. I'm 37 (and even have a tattoo) and have worked with college kids for the past 8 years.

Nomenclature or not, to me, the term is just wrong.

15fan
04-23-2007, 05:44 PM
Getting a tattoo has never entered my mind.

My father-in-law was into all sorts of trouble as a kid..and teenager...and young adult. He readily admits that just about the biggest mistake he ever made was getting a tattoo. As soon as his father - a German Jew - saw it, they dropped everything and went to get it removed using all of the latest medical technologies that were available a half century ago.

More pain than he ever experienced in a 25 year military career.

remdog
04-23-2007, 05:50 PM
Getting a tattoo has never entered my mind.

My father-in-law was into all sorts of trouble as a kid..and teenager...and young adult. He readily admits that just about the biggest mistake he ever made was getting a tattoo. As soon as his father - a German Jew - saw it, they dropped everything and went to get it removed using all of the latest medical technologies that were available a half century ago.

More pain than he ever experienced in a 25 year military career.

That is always one thing that has influenced me about tatoos---the inhumane way they were used to 'brand' people.

I realize that people today are making voluntary choices and statements (which is certainly their choice) but that image remains with me. :(

Rem

KittyDuran
04-23-2007, 06:29 PM
I have never heard the term "tramp stamp" before this thread either. I'm 37 (and even have a tattoo) and have worked with college kids for the past 8 years.

Nomenclature or not, to me, the term is just wrong.Same here... I asked a female co-worker today (in her 50's) and she had not heard of the term. Then I just said the same words to another female (in her 20's) and she knew exactly what the it was - even going so far as to call a tattoo on the lower back on a woman a "bulls-eye" and saying that it meant the woman was "easy"...:help: I predict as tattoos become more commonplace [which they have] the term will gradually fade away...

OTOH... when I went to school in SE KY in the 70's wearing bright red lipstick (which I did) meant that you were "easy" - I switched to pink real quick.:(

KittyDuran
04-23-2007, 06:30 PM
That is always one thing that has influenced me about tatoos---the inhumane way they were used to 'brand' people.

I realize that people today are making voluntary choices and statements (which is certainly their choice) but that image remains with me. :(

RemDoesn't the Maori (sp?) in NZ use tattoos on the face as a form of beauty marks? :confused:

remdog
04-23-2007, 06:42 PM
Doesn't the Maori (sp?) in NZ use tattoos on the face as a form of beauty marks? :confused:

It's my understanding that many primative tribes use tatoos as beauty marks. Everyone is welcome to draw their own conclusion. To me, that's far different than people branding other people for the purpose of segragating/eliminating them. It's a different subject and I thought my original post made that distinction. If it didn't, I appologize.

Rem

Ltlabner
04-23-2007, 06:43 PM
Doesn't the Maori (sp?) in NZ use tattoos on the face as a form of beauty marks? :confused:

I was under the impression that tattoos have been used throught out time, and across various unrealted cultures as a "beauty mark" or body adornment. I'm sure there's been plenty of times where people have used them for evil reasons, but my guess (and it's only a guess) is that people have used them for positive reasons far more than evil.

But I can also appreicate why someone with a holocost background would not be thilled about a tattoo.

vaticanplum
04-23-2007, 07:04 PM
Not attacking you, but you have shared several times before that you tend to run with an "artsy fartsy" crowd so it isn't suprising that you've not heard such a term from them.

And the premise that because you and your circle of what, 30-50 friends, define what is common place langauge/thought is laughable. Just because your small group of friends (small relative to the population at large) hasn't heard of something doesn't mean it isn't relatively common.

My friends are not the only people I ever hear talk.

Falls City Beer
04-23-2007, 07:07 PM
Who cares if the term has reached critical mass or not? It's idiotic. Never mind the sexist part.

TeamCasey
04-23-2007, 07:24 PM
It sort of reminds me how sleeveless tees (tank tops) on men are called wife beaters.

Cedric
04-23-2007, 07:28 PM
It sort of reminds me how sleeveless tees (tank tops) on men are called wife beaters.

Yep. Some things are just thrown out there and become part of our daily slang. Then again I'm not an elitist that sits around worrying about every damn injustice. Some of us have lifes to live I suppose.

remdog
04-23-2007, 07:38 PM
It sort of reminds me how sleeveless tees (tank tops) on men are called wife beaters.

Good analogy. That pretty much puts it in perspective, I think.

Rem

Ltlabner
04-24-2007, 09:41 AM
It sort of reminds me how sleeveless tees (tank tops) on men are called wife beaters.

Not a bad analogy.

I didn't lose any sleep over that one either.

zombielady
04-24-2007, 09:44 AM
crude and derogatory analogies are human nature... humor... crassness is and always will be... That said...

No I don't have a tattoo... I've always wanted one, but I am thankful that I haven't actually done it, because I always change my mind about what to get, and if I had done it in my twenties, I'd be stuck with the guy from Pearl Jam on my back... and I haven't liked them in over 10 years...

GIK
04-24-2007, 12:51 PM
How about those who have them post a pic?

Here's mine (right after it was done, thus some skin irritation):
http://www.redszone.com/ttf/ink.jpg
Bonus points to whomever can first identify what it is.

Yachtzee
04-24-2007, 01:00 PM
How about those who have them post a pic?

Here's mine (right after it was done, thus some skin irritation):
http://www.redszone.com/ttf/ink.jpg
Bonus points to whomever can first identify what it is.

The "logo" for the Isle of Man?

GIK
04-24-2007, 01:04 PM
The "logo" for the Isle of Man?

You got it. :thumbup:

pedro
04-24-2007, 01:04 PM
I'm fairly certain that I'll never get a tattoo. Everybody and their monkey has multiple tattoo's in the planet Portland and while some look good and some look bad, I've just never wanted anything on me permanently.

Oh, and I've heard the term "tramp stamp". Utterly charming it is.

Yachtzee
04-24-2007, 02:45 PM
You got it. :thumbup:

That's pretty cool. Are you Manx?

A significant part of my heritage is Donauschwaben, a group of Germans that had settled along the Danube in the Banat, which is now part of Romania, Serbia and Hungary. In fact, my great grandmother came from the same village that Johnny Wiesmuller was born in. I've thought that if I ever get a second tattoo, one idea is this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5c/DSWappen.jpg

The Coat of Arms of the Donauschwaben.

KittyDuran
04-24-2007, 03:16 PM
i've got two...got the first one about 15 years ago and the second one 2 years ago...one is woody woodpecker...the other is a the wishbone c for cincinnati with the number 14 inside...i love them both, but the chicks really dig my pecker :mhcky21:I'm reading this thread again (all the way thru)... But I have a ? for RIC... aren't you sort of germophobic? How can you justify having something inserted (like ink) into your body like a tattoo?

Yachtzee
04-24-2007, 03:24 PM
I'm reading this thread again (all the way thru)... But I have a ? for RIC... aren't you sort of germophobic? How can you justify having something inserted (like ink) into your body like a tattoo?

They let him man the autoclave before and after. :)

GIK
04-24-2007, 03:57 PM
That's pretty cool. Are you Manx?

Partially, yes.

creek14
04-24-2007, 09:11 PM
Well I saw a great reason to never get a tattoo today.

This guy came to our office.
http://msunderestimated.com/Ermey.jpg
We had to take the room down to unclassified and I'm so not impressed with celebrity (or psuedo-celebrity in this case) and it was a pain in the :mooner: , but I digress.

Anyway, this guy is in his late 60, a (former) Marine, and as buff as some 20 year olds I've seen.

But he had lots of tattoos. And by the time you are in your late 60's and you've had a tattoo for 40+ of those years, they look like hell. They were faded and saggy and looked smudged. They looked like when ink bleeds on paper.

But it did give me a new analogy - if I had gotten a rose tattoo on my um, err, chest back when I was 20...it would be a long stem by now. :cry: :laugh: