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View Full Version : David Weathers and Ben Weber sign w/ Reds (per Enquirer)



redsfan30
12-15-2004, 12:45 PM
According to Dan O'Brien on 1360, the Reds will make another announcement regarding a free agent signing this afternoon. Didn't give a time though.

My bet would be Weathers has been finalized, possibly even Mercker.

RedTeamGo!
12-15-2004, 12:46 PM
Do you know what time that will be announced?

zombie-a-go-go
12-15-2004, 12:46 PM
I'm tellin ya, it's Clement. ;)

redsfan30
12-15-2004, 12:47 PM
I'm tellin ya, it's Clement. ;)
How sweet would that be?

Red Leader
12-15-2004, 12:47 PM
Carlos Beltran. :thumbup:

TRF
12-15-2004, 12:47 PM
Clement and Perez. :gac:

Puffy
12-15-2004, 12:48 PM
Nicole Eggert :thumbup:

zombie-a-go-go
12-15-2004, 12:49 PM
Nicole Eggert :thumbup:

Can she pitch? :mhcky21:

RadioWink
12-15-2004, 12:51 PM
I'm guessing that it's Weathers.

redsfan30
12-15-2004, 12:51 PM
This wouldn't be a curveball would it?

We had no idea we were looking at Ortiz and he arrives yesterday. Could this be a name we have not even discussed? Could the fact that we upped payroll for Ortiz mean they would do it for someone else?

It's probably Weathers, but we'll see.

Could also have something to do with Jiminez too.

corkedbat
12-15-2004, 12:52 PM
Jose Rijo :D

zombie-a-go-go
12-15-2004, 12:53 PM
Could also have something to do with Jiminez too.

"Guess what! Jiminez is a Free Agent now!"

Aceking
12-15-2004, 12:55 PM
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041215/SPT04/41215001/1071

Weathers and Ben Weber.

dougflynn23
12-15-2004, 12:55 PM
:santa: I hear it is Bob Owchinko at 3 years, $12M !!!

Don't ask me why....but I heard from a pretty reliable source that the Reds had also spoken to Steve Reed, RHP. Reed is 40 years old, but is very durable and effective. He is a 13 year vet, and has only 3 years with an ERA over 4.00 despite spending over a third of his career in Coors Field. It will likely be Weathers or Mercker, which is fine, but it could be Steve Reed.

redsfan30
12-15-2004, 12:55 PM
Pic on the Homer just said it's a "big" announcement. He also said that even if it is Weather and/ Mercker that could be considered big for the Reds.

Didn't talk like it's definetly one of them.

redsfan30
12-15-2004, 12:57 PM
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041215/SPT04/41215001/1071

Weathers and Ben Weber.
Weathers is a good signing.

Don't know much about Weber.

zombie-a-go-go
12-15-2004, 12:57 PM
Reds add two to bolster bullpen

By John Fay
Enquirer staff writer

The Reds added two pitchers to their bullpen today, signing veteran right-handers David Weathers and Ben Weber.

Weathers, 35, signed a one-year deal with an option for 2006. Weber, also 35, signed a one-year deal.

Weathers pitched for the New York Mets, Florida and Houston last season. He went a combined 7-7 with a 4.15 ERA. Weathers is a 14-year veteran. Before last season, he had a four-year run where he posted a 3.08 ERA or better.

He pitched for the Reds in 1998, going 2-4 with 6.21 ERA.

Weber spent last season with the Anaheim Angels. He struggled, going 0-2 with a 8.06 ERA. Like Weathers, he had a very effective stretch before 2004. He was 5-1 with a 2.69 ERA in '03, 7-2 with a 2.54 ERA in '02 and 6-2 with a 3.42 ERA in '01.

Weathers made $3.9 million last year; Weber $900,000.

Roy Tucker
12-15-2004, 12:58 PM
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041215/SPT04/41215001/1071

Weathers and Ben Weber.
Wednesday, December 15, 2004

Reds add two to bolster bullpen

By John Fay
Enquirer staff writer

The Reds added two pitchers to their bullpen today, signing veteran right-handers David Weathers and Ben Weber.

Weathers, 35, signed a one-year deal with an option for 2006. Weber, also 35, signed a one-year deal.

Weathers pitched for the New York Mets, Florida and Houston last season. He went a combined 7-7 with a 4.15 ERA. Weathers is a 14-year veteran. Before last season, he had a four-year run where he posted a 3.08 ERA or better.

He pitched for the Reds in 1998, going 2-4 with 6.21 ERA.

Weber spent last season with the Anaheim Angels. He struggled, going 0-2 with a 8.06 ERA. Like Weathers, he had a very effective stretch before 2004. He was 5-1 with a 2.69 ERA in '03, 7-2 with a 2.54 ERA in '02 and 6-2 with a 3.42 ERA in '01.

Weathers made $3.9 million last year; Weber $900,000.

Red Leader
12-15-2004, 12:59 PM
Both are good signings, IMO.

danforsman
12-15-2004, 12:59 PM
Weathers is a good signing.

Don't know much about Weber.

I'll take the exact opposite position.

pedro
12-15-2004, 12:59 PM
Reds Sign "Philly Phanatic"

http://images.ibsys.com/2004/0223/2868186_200X150.jpg

Published: December 15, 2004 (AP)

The Reds today announced the signing of free agent mascot "philly phanatic" away from the city of Philadelphia. Reds General Manager Dan O'Brien said that this move was made on behalf of the "fans" and expressed hope that this would once and for all squash rumours about the Reds organizational commitment to winning, or lack thereof, and pleaded with all those that haven't yet to "for the love of god, buy season tickets before John Allen turns into a gargoyle". O'Brien also indicated that the "fanatic" would be renamed "Numbers the Accounting Clown" to better fit the image of the franchise.

zombie-a-go-go
12-15-2004, 01:01 PM
Reds Sign "Philly Phanatic"

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Roy Tucker
12-15-2004, 01:01 PM
Reds Sign "Philly Phanatic"

http://images.ibsys.com/2004/0223/2868186_200X150.jpg

Published: December 15, 2004 (AP)

The Reds today announced the signing of free agent mascot "philly phanatic" away from the city of Philadelphia. Reds General Manager Dan O'Brien said that this move was made on behalf of the "fans" and expressed hope that this would once and for all squash rumours about the Reds organizational commitment to winning, or lack thereof, and pleaded with all those that haven't yet to "for the love of god, buy season tickets before John Allen turns into a gargoyle". O'Brien also indicated that the "fanatic" would be renamed "Numbers the Accounting Clown" to better fit the image of the franchise.
Bah! They could have done better. Youppi was going to be non-tendered.

REDREAD
12-15-2004, 01:02 PM
Can she pitch? :mhcky21:

Who cares? :mhcky21:

LvJ
12-15-2004, 01:09 PM
I like the signing of Weber. He had a great run with Anaheim before last season. If he can return to form, he'll be huge. :thumbup:

boobhat
12-15-2004, 01:10 PM
isnt weber the guy with the really weird wind up?

ill take him and weathers. after the ortiz signing i was starting to think the reds wouldnt get any bullpen help

RedsFan75
12-15-2004, 01:11 PM
So are the Reds becoming Anaheim east?????? First Ortiz, now Weber???

traderumor
12-15-2004, 01:12 PM
The biggest problem with Weber is those glasses and the triple clutch with the glove. As long as his problems were not physical that are still present, he comes as one who fits the mold of a good, cheap gamble coming off a bad year but with recent success.

dougflynn23
12-15-2004, 01:12 PM
Reds Sign "Philly Phanatic"

http://images.ibsys.com/2004/0223/2868186_200X150.jpg

Published: December 15, 2004 (AP)

The Reds today announced the signing of free agent mascot "philly phanatic" away from the city of Philadelphia. Reds General Manager Dan O'Brien said that this move was made on behalf of the "fans" and expressed hope that this would once and for all squash rumours about the Reds organizational commitment to winning, or lack thereof, and pleaded with all those that haven't yet to "for the love of god, buy season tickets before John Allen turns into a gargoyle". O'Brien also indicated that the "fanatic" would be renamed "Numbers the Accounting Clown" to better fit the image of the franchise. :D Now I'm very concerned. What will happen to Gapper and Mr. Red? This organization has absolutely no loyalty whatsoever. First they dump the "Old Lefthander" like yesterday's trash. Then RedsFest was cancelled. Then Barry "The Icon" Larkin was disposed of with all the finesse of a mob hit. Now we lose Gapper and Mr. Red due to corporate greed! I will NEVER attend another Reds game again!

pedro
12-15-2004, 01:12 PM
ben weber stats (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=6444&context=pitching)

david weathers stats (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4718)

RosieRed
12-15-2004, 01:17 PM
I was having a hard time placing who Ben Weber is, so I looked him up. He's got quite a kick! :eek:

http://sportsmed.starwave.com/i/magazine/new/weber_20021022.jpg

I'll be curious to see what kind of money Weathers and Weber will make.

pedro
12-15-2004, 01:18 PM
:D Now I'm very concerned. What will happen to Gapper and Mr. Red? This organization has absolutely no loyalty whatsoever. First they dump the "Old Lefthander" like yesterday's trash. Then RedsFest was cancelled. Then Barry "The Icon" Larkin was disposed of with all the finesse of a mob hit. Now we lose Gapper and Mr. Red due to corporate greed! I will NEVER attend another Reds game again!

actually the Reds are going to keep a well stocked "mascot pen" this year. O'Brien felt that they were still too "one dimensional" even after the addition of "gapper" to longtime standby "Mr. Red", and was quoted as saying "with the obvious lack of quality in our starting pitching we felt that we needed to do something to keep fans in their seats during those 15-5 blow outs, as we have concessions quotas to meet, otherwise we 'll have to get rid of Pepsi/Coke and replace it with KK Cola."

MWM
12-15-2004, 01:19 PM
One year deals are good.

Red Leader
12-15-2004, 01:19 PM
Weber was nails in the 2002 World Series. He was lights out. I hope he can return to that form. If so, we've just upgraded out bullpen TREMENDOUSLY. That's nice, because they are going to be worked.

Wonder what's up with Mercker. If we can sign him as well, I'll be totally satisfied with the 'pen. (well, Danny is still here, but that's a given I'm willing to overlook)

traderumor
12-15-2004, 01:21 PM
http://www.sports-wired.com/profiles/WE/tbc284.asp

http://anaheim.angels.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/ana/news/ana_news.jsp?ymd=20040605&content_id=762430&vkey=news_ana&fext=.jsp

A couple more links to tell the Weber story. He is looking for a bounceback year, I'd be guessing he signed for about $500K-750K with some incentives.

RadioWink
12-15-2004, 01:22 PM
If the Angels need a strikeout, they'll summon Donnelly, Percival or Rodriguez. If they need a double play, Weber's their guy. His fastball added a little giddy-up with improved health, rising from 87-89 MPH in 2002 to 90-92 MPH last year. His out pitch is a nasty sinker, delivered by a guy who hides the ball amid flying elbows and a violently shaking head. He can field his position, and seven of nine runners trying to steal off him were thrown out.


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6444

:thumbup: I like these signings... a definate improvement.

westofyou
12-15-2004, 01:27 PM
See Ya Mr. Reidling.

Puffy
12-15-2004, 01:28 PM
I like both the signings - now I'd like a lefty to be added so Miley has some flexibility and then the bullpen becomes a positive (albeit a slight positive) rather than the huge negative it was last year.

RadioWink
12-15-2004, 01:29 PM
Wow, if my numbers are right... we've had to increase the payroll (even if D'Lo walks).............. I'm feeling faint............ someone call 911!

LvJ
12-15-2004, 01:30 PM
Ok, Riedling to Florida for AJ Burnett. :D

RosieRed
12-15-2004, 01:32 PM
See Ya Mr. Reidling.

I had the same thought.

Red Leader
12-15-2004, 01:34 PM
I'm hoping that DanO can package Riedling and Jimenez together for something. It would be nice if he got a lower level A lefty starter and a good bat in return, but I'll take anything at this point over him non-tendering them.

RadioWink
12-15-2004, 01:36 PM
I'm with ya Red Leader.

I'm hoping that we're playing the same game that the Angels played with Ortiz. Appear to let him walk and then unload to a team afraid to take the risk at signing these two on the market.

Reverend Doo-Rag
12-15-2004, 02:06 PM
Is Weber the guy who got that real bad nosebleed?

Falls City Beer
12-15-2004, 02:07 PM
See Ya Mr. Reidling.


Indeed.

Too bad we didn't get anything for him.

redsfan30
12-15-2004, 02:19 PM
Weber looks to be a steal for us. Coming off a bad year with an inflated ERA, but still has a career 3.58 ERA. Should be a cheap signing. He also brings World Series experience. He would be a great go to guy in a tough situation in a big game. You know what you are going to get from him. That's surely different from last year where we had to bring a Sanchez or Padilla or McCray in and you had no idea what you were going to get from him.

Same goes with Weathers. Florida sounds upset to lose him. He is a good bullpen arm and is durable. If we need a spot starter, he is the man.

Very good signings, Dan O'Brien! Couple that with the aquisition of Ramon Ortiz yesterday and I'd say the Reds have had a nice couple days.

Falls City Beer
12-15-2004, 02:22 PM
Weber looks to be a steal for us. Coming off a bad year with an inflated ERA, but still has a career 3.58 ERA. Should be a cheap signing. He also brings World Series experience. He would be a great go to guy in a tough situation in a big game. You know what you are going to get from him. That's surely different from last year where we had to bring a Sanchez or Padilla or McCray in and you had no idea what you were going to get from him.

Same goes with Weathers. Florida sounds upset to lose him. He is a good bullpen arm and is durable. If we need a spot starter, he is the man.

Very good signings, Dan O'Brien! Couple that with the aquisition of Ramon Ortiz yesterday and I'd say the Reds have had a nice couple days.

Weber's not awful, but he is old, so....

And Weathers is just old...

and ugly.

redsfan30
12-15-2004, 02:23 PM
The article on the Reds website says Weber suffered from Carpal Tunnel syndrome last year. Hopefully, he's over that and will return to being one of the best relievers in the league this year.

Very good signing, and looking better the more I read about it!!

redsfan30
12-15-2004, 02:25 PM
Weber's not awful, but he is old, so....

And Weathers is just old...

and ugly.
I could care less how old they are. If we sign a 60 year old who can get Major League hitters out, suits me.

You are right about Weathers though....he is one ugly dude. :mhcky21:

OldXOhio
12-15-2004, 02:26 PM
yeah, guy's gotta really bad helmet on him.....zane smith ugly.

NC Reds
12-15-2004, 02:27 PM
No complaints from me on these two signings. Short-term moves were needed for the bullpen.


I still don't like the Moseley trade though. :thumbdown

redsfan30
12-15-2004, 02:29 PM
Does anyone know when the official announcement is?

Also, will it be live on the Homer?

Should be an interesting Hot Stove League tonight from the GABP!

Crash Davis
12-15-2004, 02:32 PM
Weber looks to be a steal for us. Coming off a bad year with an inflated ERA, but still has a career 3.58 ERA. Should be a cheap signing. He also brings World Series experience. He would be a great go to guy in a tough situation in a big game. You know what you are going to get from him. That's surely different from last year where we had to bring a Sanchez or Padilla or McCray in and you had no idea what you were going to get from him.

Didn't Weber's arm fall off last year? He went from getting meaningful innings in the Angels' pen to being released in a couple weeks. His arm can't be right.

One thing is for sure. The Reds now have the ugliest team in baseball. They just added Booger and Jabba the Hut with a glove. These two pitchers are far and away the ugliest athletes going. They make Sam Cassell look lovable.

ochre
12-15-2004, 02:35 PM
more runs than innings pitched? word.

johngalt
12-15-2004, 02:35 PM
Wonder what's up with Mercker. If we can sign him as well, I'll be totally satisfied with the 'pen. (well, Danny is still here, but that's a given I'm willing to overlook)

I wouldn't give up on Mercker. That still appears to be likely.

Falls City Beer
12-15-2004, 02:40 PM
Didn't Weber's arm fall off last year? He went from getting meaningful innings in the Angels' pen to being released in a couple weeks. His arm can't be right.

One thing is for sure. The Reds now have the ugliest team in baseball. They just added Booger and Jabba the Hut with a glove. These two pitchers are far and away the ugliest athletes going. They make Sam Cassell look lovable.

Supposedly carpal tunnel for Weber (but you got to doubt that--plus he's old; recovery will be slow/unlikely).

Weathers? .800 OPS Against in 2004. Ugh.

Redmachine2003
12-15-2004, 02:45 PM
Weber's not awful, but he is old, so....

And Weathers is just old...

and ugly.
Come on both are younger than me so I don't think they are that old.

Falls City Beer
12-15-2004, 02:48 PM
Come on both are younger than me so I don't think they are that old.

I'm Weber's age; I heal slowly. (Okay, so that's not the best logic).

One of my professors in undergrad had a coffee mug that read: Father Time Will Kick Your Ass.

westofyou
12-15-2004, 02:49 PM
One of my professors in undergrad had a coffee mug that read: Father Time Will Kick Your Ass.

And kick you in the ribs when you're down.

ochre
12-15-2004, 03:06 PM
Bob Barker in Happy Gilmore?

Yachtzee
12-15-2004, 03:06 PM
Supposedly carpal tunnel for Weber.

Maybe Gullet should get him an ergonomic mouse pad.

tempe85
12-15-2004, 03:21 PM
Having seen Weber pitch for the last 3, 4 years I know quite a bit about him.

Ben Weber is a wiley old pitcher that gets away with marginal stuff by great deception and keeping hitters off balance. He has probably the ODDEST windup in the league bar none... He double pumps very quickly before he releases (some hitters have actually said it's so unorthodox they can't but help watch him do it.... stealing their focus). You'll see him sport his goggles and 3 inch beard for most of the season (a site to see... :D). He's a very good ground ball pitcher and has only given up 19 HR's in his entire career vs. 271IP (which is outstanding)... but he won't dazzle you with strikeouts either.

But one more really important thing to add. I have NO IDEA what happened to Weber last season. He completely EMPLODED (he earned himself the nickname Gas Can last season because if you brought him in with a fire he'd add to it). He gave up at least 1 run in 16 of his 20 appearances last season. He couldn't get anyone out..anyone.... It was heartbreaking because that guy had overcome so many odds to get where he was..and was a huge part of making the Angels bullpen what it was..... it was like watching the Titanic sink to the misty depths of the ocean.

Carperal Tunnel Syndrom... not sure what it is or how long it takes you to recover..... but If he makes it back to anything like he once was then you definently have yourself a quality pitcher. And if anything he's pretty a colorful guy to watch.

OldXOhio
12-15-2004, 03:24 PM
So we're the proud new owners of "Basketcase" and "Gas Can"?

pretty much par for the course

any other crap you wanna throw our way? How about another righty named "yard"?

Red Leader
12-15-2004, 03:29 PM
So we're the proud new owners of "Basketcase" and "Gas Can"?

pretty much par for the course

any other crap you wanna throw our way? How about another righty named "yard"?


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

tempe85
12-15-2004, 03:35 PM
So we're the proud new owners of "Basketcase" and "Gas Can"?

pretty much par for the course

any other crap you wanna throw our way? How about another righty named "yard"?


Oh.. they're just nick names..... Like Lackey is Too Tall Texas...... Colon is Fartolo...... Salmon is KingFish... Garret Mr. Smooth.... Vlad The Impaler....

Just fun stuff to keep the season lively (and if anyone didn't know I'm from Angelsbaseball.US... feel free to stop by and ask questions... there are far more knowledgable people there than myself).


But if you were looking to take another Angel I'd be happy if you guys grabed Amezaga who is rightfully named Amaz-a-suck

Be warned! If you are in support of Bill James you might throw up a lung seeing this guys stats:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6892

Mike Socisia continually playing him has left even marginal Sabermetric supporters in agony (Mike's reason? He's a great fielder... god). Though oddly enough he did hit 2 grandslams last year.

traderumor
12-15-2004, 03:42 PM
Oh.. they're just nick names..... Like Lackey is Too Tall Texas...... Colon is Fartolo...... Salmon is KingFish... Garret Mr. Smooth.... Vlad The Impaler....

Just fun stuff to keep the season lively (and if anyone didn't know I'm from Angelsbaseball.US... feel free to stop by and ask questions... there are far more knowledgable people there than myself).


But if you were looking to take another Angel I'd be happy if you guys grabed Amezaga who is rightfully named Amaz-a-suck

Be warned! If you are in support of Bill James you might throw up a lung seeing this guys stats:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6892

Mike Socisia continually playing him has left even marginal Sabermetric supporters in agony (Mike's reason? He's a great fielder... god). Though oddly enough he did hit 2 grandslams last year.
Amezega is a poor man's Juan Castro, except his hitting is even more putrid.

flyer85
12-15-2004, 03:43 PM
See Ya Mr. Reidling.

Weber was awful in 2004. Why can't it be that Reidling just had an off year. He had always pitched well as a RELIEVER(thanks Bob) in the past.

If Weber can return to previous form in 2005, then why not Reidling?

RedsFan75
12-15-2004, 03:46 PM
Carperal Tunnel Syndrom... not sure what it is or how long it takes you to recover.....

I have Carpel Tunnel, and I can tell you about it. There is a bone in the wrist that pinches a nerve. Each person is affected differently, but when mine is bothering me, I can't feel the Pinky and Ring finger on my right hand. A friend of my loses feeling in her thumb and forefinger....

If he does have it, there are treatments and braces that you wear to stabilize and prevent problems. The hard part is identifying what's happening. After it's ID'd you can pretty much resume normal activity, just following the treatment schedule. I have problems when I don't do what I'm supposed to do...

(OK, OK, go ahead and insert a joke about "wrist" exercises) :D

OldXOhio
12-15-2004, 03:47 PM
Weber, Reidling or both? Looks like we have a contender to replace Reitsma/Jones/both from last season.

Aronchis
12-15-2004, 03:48 PM
I wonder how long either of these 2 signings last on the Reds. We have some talent that is going to have to be harvested at some point in the minors with the bullpen.

tempe85
12-15-2004, 03:49 PM
Amezega is a poor man's Juan Castro, except his hitting is even more putrid.


Maybe we can trade them both straight up? :all_cohol

:dflynn:

gonelong
12-15-2004, 03:49 PM
One of my professors in undergrad had a coffee mug that read: Father Time Will Kick Your Ass.

And kick you in the ribs when you're down..

I wish I had known this in my 20's, I used to laugh at Father Time and spit in his face. I hope he doesn't hold a grudge. :)

I am mid-30s, by all accounts I remain pretty mobile and only a step slower than I used to be. Can the more "experienced" Redszoners give me some kind of sliding scale on the slope of descent from 25-30, 30-35, 35-40 etc.

20-25, lost 1/4 step

25-30, not quite a razor sharp as I used to be, lost another 1/4 step

30-35, became senile and curmudgeonly

35-40, pending

GL

flyer85
12-15-2004, 03:50 PM
I wonder how long either of these 2 signings last on the Reds. We have some talent that is going to have to be harvested at some point in the minors with the bullpen.

I'm not sure that Valentine and Coffey are quite ready yet. I think it is lock that Weathers is part of the pen. what do the Reds now do with Reidling?

Red Leader
12-15-2004, 03:52 PM
I'm not sure that Valentine and Coffey are quite ready yet. I think it is lock that Weathers is part of the pen. what do the Reds now do with Reidling?

I'm fairly confident that Riedling will be non-tendered and we will sign another lefly for the bullpen (Mercker) to take his spot. All the RH spots have been taken, I don't see them keeping Riedling after todays signings.

Aronchis
12-15-2004, 03:53 PM
Valentine and Coffey are 24 years old, time to see what they got. Valentine probably is going to make the club out of spring training unless he screws up.

Right now I see the "starting" bullpen as Graves,Wagner,Weathers,Valentine, and 2 lefties with a "7" reliever coming from the Harang/Hancock loser(If they don't both lose to a healthy Bong). I think Acevedo is the odd man out.

RedsFan75
12-15-2004, 03:56 PM
I wish I had known this in my 20's, I used to laugh at Father Time and spit in his face. I hope he doesn't hold a grudge. :)

I am mid-30s, by all accounts I remain pretty mobile and only a step slower than I used to be. Can the more "experienced" Redszoners give me some kind of sliding scale on the slope of descent from 25-30, 30-35, 35-40 etc.

20-25, lost 1/4 step

25-30, not quite a razor sharp as I used to be, lost another 1/4 step

30-35, became senile and curmudgeonly

35-40, pending

GL
I had to laugh when I read this.... OH HE HOLDS A GRUDGE, and Payback's a mother!!!

I'm 44. When I was in my 20's in the Military, I did a little bit of every thing... Air-assualt, Ranger school, basically beat my body into a pulp... in my late 20's I was faster than I had been, and started slowing when I hit my 30's... At 35 the knees and ankles began to ache... at 35 I was in a car accident, hurt the back but rehab made it almost as good as before the accident...

.
.
.
.

At 40 Father time got EVEN with interest :D My knees and ankles groan when I climb stairs, or sit too long and try to stand up, 5 minor back surgeries later my back feels like any other 70 yr olds feels... :D

Now I watch the X-Games and think, you'll be sorry when your my age :D

ODERED
12-15-2004, 03:59 PM
Reds Sign "Philly Phanatic"

http://images.ibsys.com/2004/0223/2868186_200X150.jpg

Published: December 15, 2004 (AP)

The Reds today announced the signing of free agent mascot "philly phanatic" away from the city of Philadelphia. Reds General Manager Dan O'Brien said that this move was made on behalf of the "fans" and expressed hope that this would once and for all squash rumours about the Reds organizational commitment to winning, or lack thereof, and pleaded with all those that haven't yet to "for the love of god, buy season tickets before John Allen turns into a gargoyle". O'Brien also indicated that the "fanatic" would be renamed "Numbers the Accounting Clown" to better fit the image of the franchise.


:MandJ: :help: :MandJ:

flyer85
12-15-2004, 04:00 PM
Valentine and Coffey are 24 years old, time to see what they got. Valentine probably is going to make the club out of spring training unless he screws up.

Right now I see the "starting" bullpen as Graves,Wagner,Weathers,Valentine, and 2 lefties with a "7" reliever coming from the Harang/Hancock loser(If they don't both lose to a healthy Bong). I think Acevedo is the odd man out.

I think the locks are Graves, Weathers, and Acevedo. Valentine and Wagner both had serious control issues last season and with the Reds focus on strikes I could see one or both going to AAA if they can't throw the ball over the plate. I thinks Valentine, Weber, Coffey, Hancock and Wagner will fight for 2-3 spots.

There will be at least one lefty among Mercker, Norton and Shackleford(who has control issues).

Aronchis
12-15-2004, 04:02 PM
I think the locks are Graves, Weathers, and Acevedo. Valentine and Wagner both had serious control issues last season and with the Reds focus on strikes I could see one or both going to AAA if they can't throw the ball over the plate. I thinks Valentine, Weber, Coffey, Hancock and Wagner will fight for 2-3 spots.

There will be at least one lefty among Mercker, Norton and Shackleford(who has control issues).

If you think Acevedo is a lock, you gotta another thing coming. Wagner's control was MUCH better at seasons end by the way. If you are going to rebuild right, you MUST play your developed young talent. That means I would put Wagner,Valentine and Coffey in the BP to start the season and follow their progress. Signing Weather IMO is worthless.

OldXOhio
12-15-2004, 04:04 PM
Gas Can has carpel tunnel syndrome huh? Interesting.

In today's other news, the Reds FO announced the free agent signing of a strong armed, legally blind catcher...goes by the nickname "passed ball".

missionhockey21
12-15-2004, 04:07 PM
Wagner makes the cut for sure unless he is just miserable in ST.

Ohioballplayer
12-15-2004, 04:07 PM
Weber was a good sign, 3 good years, one bad, I would take the chance at 900,000, and I say Eggert instead of the phanatic :gac:

flyer85
12-15-2004, 04:07 PM
If you think Acevedo is a lock, you gotta another thing coming. Wagner's control was MUCH better at seasons end by the way. If you are going to rebuild right, you MUST play your developed young talent. That means I would put Wagner,Valentine and Coffey in the BP to start the season and follow their progress. Signing Weather IMO is worthless.

If the Reds were simply going the young talent route they would have signed neither Weber or Weathers and would non-tender Reidling.

Wagner was much better at seasons end .

Acevedo as a reliever had a 0.00 ERA in 17IP in which he gave up 7 hits and only 1BB. The Reds are not going to walk away from, especially since they love guys that throw strikes. Plus as a reliever he can be better spotted against right batters. He was very good against RH batters, only a .309 OBP. He was flat awful against lefties a .377OBP and 960OPS.

RedsFan75
12-15-2004, 04:07 PM
...goes by the nickname "passed ball".
Hey! I thought that nickname belonged to Jason LaRue. :D

Stormy
12-15-2004, 04:08 PM
These aren't great signings, but they aren't partcicularly vacuous additions. Clearly, the Reds F.O. has seen the disaster of trying to build a bullpen from scratch, using mostly unproven youngsters, last year. Now, O'Brien is going to go back to the previous regimes method of trying to surround the young arms, with veteran relief pitchers accustom to certain roles. It's akin to adding our newest model of Scott Sullivan and Todd Jones... and hoping they lend stability to the younger arms like Wagner, Valentine etc... The difference is that, unlike Jim Bowden, DanO has yet to show any propensity for evaluating bullpen talent, recogning which farm hands are the best BP fits, and for being able to construct an effective, balanced BP for a reasonable price.

Whether you like the recent additions or not, and I'm thoroughly nonplussed by the entire group... at least DanO is trying to strengthen the 2005 roster and pitching staff with some veteran arms. Whether he's allocating his attention and money wisely is a different matter.

Ohioballplayer
12-15-2004, 04:09 PM
Guys it's not the years, it's the MILEAGE !!!!!!!

Matt700wlw
12-15-2004, 04:12 PM
It's an upgrade

Of course...I would be too

We'll see what happens

Matt700wlw
12-15-2004, 04:15 PM
Weber was diagnosed with Carpol Tunnel Syndrom and was lacking feeling in his fingertips before being released from Anahiem

Puffy
12-15-2004, 04:20 PM
Weber was a good sign, 3 good years, one bad, I would take the chance at 900,000, and I say Eggert instead of the phanatic :gac:

Nicole Eggert?? Man, I am so with you on this one!!!!!

DoogMinAmo
12-15-2004, 04:24 PM
I'm hoping that DanO can package Riedling and Jimenez together for something. It would be nice if he got a lower level A lefty starter and a good bat in return, but I'll take anything at this point over him non-tendering them.

Luis Castillo :mhcky21:

Matt700wlw
12-15-2004, 04:26 PM
It's definitely better than Van Poppel, Padilla, Reidling, and whatever other soft tossing scrub we had in there last season

FrenchD1
12-15-2004, 04:30 PM
I'm starting to get a little excited, just with the fact that the reds are doing SOMETHING! However I'm a little disapointed. Last week I sent in my season ticket non-renewal notice and now I'm kind of regretting it. Oh well, I guess it's too late now.

REDREAD
12-15-2004, 04:30 PM
Well, I think you still go to arb with Reidling.. He can't possibly get that much of a raise. If he stinks in spring training, the Reds are only on the hook for something like 20% of his salary if they cut him. I can't see Reidling getting more than a million (if that, probably less).

Reidling has been good up until the second part of last year (Remember that first month or so when everyone was clamoring for him to be closer ;) )

It's worth a 100-200k risk to bring him to spring training and see if he's recovered (that's all he'd cost if cut in spring training). Foolish to nontender him, IMO.

Also, only Graves and Weathers should be locks for the team (due to their contracts). Everyone else should have to earn a spot. For example, if Acevado/Valentine stinks it up in spring training, I have no problem with cutting them. I think most of the other candidates still have options, so make them earn their slot.

red-in-la
12-15-2004, 04:36 PM
I am not sure if this matters, but Ben Webber was one of the BIG post-season heros of the 2002 Angel World Champs. I like these signings, although I see Weathers as way over the hill and only useful when you are already down 12-0 in the 4th inning.....in other words, I would bring him in just ahead of your 5th outfielder to pitch.

westofyou
12-15-2004, 04:41 PM
I'm starting to get a little excited, just with the fact that the reds are doing SOMETHING! However I'm a little disapointed. Last week I sent in my season ticket non-renewal notice and now I'm kind of regretting it. Oh well, I guess it's too late now.

Bingo.

As folks down at corporate decide how to close the years end budget this sort of "press" actually comes into play on how said bucks could be spent.

As do a couple of grey goose and tonics, but I digress.

redsfan30
12-15-2004, 04:43 PM
A bullpen of Acevedo, Weber, Wagner, Valentine, Weathers and Graves is much better than the slop they ran out there last year.

M2
12-15-2004, 04:48 PM
Two 35-year-old relievers. We'll see how much either one has left.

I like Weber. He's twitchy. Of course so was Josias Manzanillo.

flyer85
12-15-2004, 04:52 PM
Two 35-year-old relievers. We'll see how much either one has left.

I like Weber. He's twitchy. Of course so was Josias Manzanillo.

They both have a track record of pitching well in 2001-2003, certainly better than Todd Jones had going in to 2004. Weathers was down a little and Weber was awful in 2004.

Seeing them rebound to a 2003 type performance is not an unreasonable expectation.

FrenchD1
12-15-2004, 04:54 PM
A bullpen of Acevedo, Weber, Wagner, Valentine, Weathers and Graves is much better than the slop they ran out there last year.

AGREED: Keep in mind that Acevedo's bullpen ERA is still 0.00 if I remember correctly.

OldXOhio
12-15-2004, 04:54 PM
A bullpen of Acevedo, Weber, Wagner, Valentine, Weathers and Graves is much better than the slop they ran out there last year.

so where's the lefty?

wheels
12-15-2004, 05:03 PM
This won't exactly be a "stuff" bullpen, but it's a little more serviceable than what they had last year.

The real question I have is how capable can these two be at bouncing back and pitching consecutive days on a routine basis.

I'm also interested in seeing where Coffey and Shackleford fit into this now crowded situation. I want at least one of them with the big club, preferably Coffey. That guy's going to be a stud. But then again, maybe M2's wish that the younger guys get a chance to have a fair amount of success at the higher levels before they move on is coming to fruition.

We shall see what we shall see.

Redmachine2003
12-15-2004, 05:05 PM
A bullpen of Acevedo, Weber, Wagner, Valentine, Weathers and Graves is much better than the slop they ran out there last year.
Just need Mercker for the lefty and it won't be to bad. I can see the Reds carring 12 pitchers next year.

Bill
12-15-2004, 05:08 PM
Weber's unusual form will be a novelty in the NL- that should help him keep NL hitters off balance.

traderumor
12-15-2004, 05:12 PM
We also are less dependent on Wagner setting up than we were going into last year

M2
12-15-2004, 05:25 PM
They both have a track record of pitching well in 2001-2003, certainly better than Todd Jones had going in to 2004. Weathers was down a little and Weber was awful in 2004.

Seeing them rebound to a 2003 type performance is not an unreasonable expectation.

Honestly, I'm not sure what a reasonable expectation is for either one. I haven't looked that deeply into the matter.

Weber was injured last year so that may or may not have a spillover effect. If he's 100% and still in possession of his former repertoire, his sinker could be an effective pitch in "the world's smallest rainforest."

As wheels noted, neither of these guys is blessed with great stuff. Pitchers like that can go fast. The Reds have been very good about finding relievers under rocks in the past, but in the JimBo regime the focus was on collecting younger guys with big arms. The DanO regime seems to prefer older guys with pitchability (baseball's code for "a certain je ne sais quoi"). The DanO model seems more susceptible to backfiring, at least that's my take. IMO, the Reds would do well to get a solid year out of one of these guys. If both deliver that's gravy. If neither deliver it's time to reconsider the model.

Crash Davis
12-15-2004, 05:46 PM
Weber's unusual form will be a novelty in the NL- that should help him keep NL hitters off balance.

In theory...

...but his arm is a mess. Nobody else was willing to give him a guaranteed deal because his arm fell apart last year.

Not a bad signing if he's healthy, but I just can't believe he's going to return to form after what happened last summer.

redsfan30
12-15-2004, 07:07 PM
so where's the lefty?
If we do indeed sign Kent Mercker, he's right there. We could either carry 12 pitchers out of camp or have a competition to see who gets that 11th spot.

redsfan30
12-15-2004, 07:08 PM
...but his arm is a mess. Nobody else was willing to give him a guaranteed deal because his arm fell apart last year.
Is Carpol Tunnel considered an "arm" injury? It's nothing structural I don't think. I think it's just something that comes and goes. Wouldn't think it'd be a problem this season.

wheels
12-15-2004, 07:25 PM
Yeah, I wouldn't call carpal tunnel a "mess", per se....I just wonder if that numbness wasn't related to an elbow injury or something.

Either way, they aren't taking a big risk on Weber. If he's finished, they'll know soon enough, and I want Coffee in there anyway.

I'm not as concerned with the pen as some folks around here. It's gonna be in good hands in couple of years what with the further development of Wagner, Coffee, and Shackleford.

If I was in charge of things, I'd worry about getting that rotation respectable first, and let the pen develope behind them.

Heck, I think Weber and Weathers are decent risk to take. If they do well a la Todd Jones they might fetch something decent in July or August. If they stink, so what? Give the kids a chance and wave goodbye to them at season's end, along with Danny Graves.

SteelSD
12-15-2004, 07:41 PM
A good explanation of carpal tunnel:

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/carpal_tunnel/detail_carpal_tunnel.htm

Now, here's the thing. It wasn't just carpal tunnel:

From MLB.com (http://anaheim.angels.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/ana/news/ana_news.jsp?ymd=20040907&content_id=850712&vkey=news_ana&fext=.jsp)


Weber shined in the bullpen from 2001 to 2003, posting ERAs of 3.42, 2.54 and 2.69, but he got off to a bad start this year that was compounded by multiple injuries. Weber said he pitched with a weakened right shoulder and numbness in his right hand for two months before it was diagnosed as carpal tunnel syndrome.

Then, when he was rehabbing in Arizona, doctors found bulging disks in his neck and back.

Ok. So you have an 35 year old pitcher coming off a season in which he was pretty much a complete mess physically. I'm not a doctor, nor have I stayed at a Holiday Inn express recently, but am I the only one concerned that we may be seeing signs of a degenerative condition?

If he's completely healthy, Weber has demonstrated that he can help.

But is he? Time to cross our fingers I guess.

wheels
12-15-2004, 07:49 PM
I don't think I'm even worried about crossing my fingers, it won't matter.
Whatever Weber gives them or doesn't will probably be of little consequence in the grand scheme.

He's just a nice thought, as long as he can physically move the ball from his hand to the plate.

Fil3232
12-15-2004, 08:05 PM
so where's the lefty?

I only know about him through conversations on this board, but what chance does Ben Kozlowski have of slipping into that 2nd LOOGY role? From what I understand he is a high-upside guy coming off injury. Seems like a low-pressure LOOGY spot might help him in his development.

guernsey
12-15-2004, 09:23 PM
David Weathers is guaranteed $1.35 million under the terms of the deal he signed with Cincinnati today.

Ben Weber gets $600,000 in 2005.

Weathers' contract calls for a $1.25 million salary next season and includes a 2006 option at $1.25 million to $1.6 million with a $100,000 buyout. The option would become guaranteed if he has 55 appearances next year. It would be guaranteed at $1.3 million if he pitches in 60 games, $1.4 million if he pitches in 65 games and $1.5 million if he pitches in 70 games.

AP

Oxilon
12-15-2004, 09:31 PM
IIRC, Weber got a line drive right into the face last season, breaking his nose. I'm not positive, but I'd imagine that would be part of his problems last season.

Tony Cloninger
12-15-2004, 09:39 PM
Wasn't that Donnelly who had that happen to him?

Krusty
12-15-2004, 11:40 PM
Wasn't that Donnelly who had that happen to him?

You're right there.

If anything, Weber and Weathers will be an upgrade as setup men over Todd Jones.

Considering the Reds acquire a starter and two relievers for less than 5 million while giving up a minor league reliever isn't too bad of a deal. Nothing spectacular but should bolster a woeful bullpen.

wheels
12-15-2004, 11:46 PM
You're right there.

If anything, Weber and Weathers will be an upgrade as setup men over Todd Jones.

Considering the Reds acquire a starter and two relievers for less than 5 million while giving up a minor league reliever isn't too bad of a deal. Nothing spectacular but should bolster a woeful bullpen.


....As long as Weber's not damaged goods. :thumbup:

Krusty
12-15-2004, 11:53 PM
Carpal tunnel can be corrected through surgery.

If he no longer has the symptoms, there is no reason why Webber won't rebound.

wheels
12-15-2004, 11:54 PM
He's also got bulging discs in his neck and back, and a weak shoulder.

That could all be in the past, but I'm just sayin'.....

I wouldn't be pinning any playoff hopes on the cat or anything.

CougarQuest
12-16-2004, 12:01 AM
These signings make me almost as excited as watching pizza dough rise.

wheels
12-16-2004, 12:04 AM
These signings make me almost as excited as watching pizza dough rise.


I would be pretty excited to be watching pizza dough rize right about now...There's no food in my house.

LINEDRIVER
12-16-2004, 12:08 AM
So are the Reds becoming Anaheim east?????? First Ortiz, now Weber???
No, actually the Reds are the Texas Rangers North.

RFS62
12-16-2004, 12:52 AM
I wish I had known this in my 20's, I used to laugh at Father Time and spit in his face. I hope he doesn't hold a grudge. :)

I am mid-30s, by all accounts I remain pretty mobile and only a step slower than I used to be. Can the more "experienced" Redszoners give me some kind of sliding scale on the slope of descent from 25-30, 30-35, 35-40 etc.

20-25, lost 1/4 step

25-30, not quite a razor sharp as I used to be, lost another 1/4 step

30-35, became senile and curmudgeonly

35-40, pending

GL



Oh man. Are you in for a surprise. He holds a grudge.

At 35, I was still pretty competitive playing tennis, and could hold my own against a lot of college players I used to hit with, but instead of running them around like I used to do, they were running me around like a yo-yo on a string.

I had a seasons pass at Vail that winter, and we started every day jumping off a 20 foot cliff on the back bowls. I skiied with ski patrol buddies all day, every day.

I'm 51 now, and those are bygone memories. Advil is now my friend.

No more cliff jumps.

MWM
12-16-2004, 01:49 AM
I'm 51 now,

Weird. My dad just turned 52.

Matt700wlw
12-16-2004, 04:13 PM
No, actually the Reds are the Texas Rangers North.

The Texas Rangers had a winning season last year....I'll take that

puca
12-17-2004, 10:42 AM
I'd have much perfered to let Claussen and Hudson cut their teeth in the bullpen. Loading up on veteran relievers is the last thing I would have done. I would have dangled a guaranteed rotation spot to some FA pitchers trying to (re)establish themselves as starters and gone with a young bullpen.