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WVRed
01-08-2005, 10:36 PM
Discuss

(I realize I am probably treading ice with that statement, but I feel that this is what the general discussion has been post-election. And for those who dont know, I voted for Bush:)).

RFS62
01-08-2005, 10:40 PM
Hey man, I'm not a hick.

WVRed
01-08-2005, 10:41 PM
Hey man, I'm not a hick.

You're from WV, thats the territory.

Dont worry, im from Kentucky originally.:)

LvJ
01-08-2005, 10:45 PM
Well, it was my dream as a child...

Unassisted
01-08-2005, 10:59 PM
I just got around to reading the December 6 issue of Time magazine today. There were no less than 4 letters in the Letters section from US residents which said things to this effect. Another handful of letters there came from outside the US and generally drew the conclusion that the whole country belongs in the "hick" basket.

If people continue to play the Red State vs. Blue State game like this for another year or so, the '06 midterm election campaigns are going to be interesting.

I think there's a lot of pent-up apathy just waiting to be unleashed. ;)

Chip R
01-09-2005, 12:06 AM
If you voted for Kerry you're a Commie hippie elitist, you're not a patriot and you're probably French.

Does that about cover it?

LvJ
01-09-2005, 12:17 AM
If you voted for Kerry you're a Commie hippie elitist, you're not a patriot and you're probably French.

Does that about cover it?

and teh gay. ;)

Chip R
01-09-2005, 12:20 AM
and teh gay. ;)
Thanks for reminding me. Don't know how I could have misssed that. :slap:

CbusRed
01-09-2005, 02:29 AM
OH MY GOSH, IM SO OFFENDED!!!! IM CALLING JESSE JACKSON AND THE ACLU TO SEE IF THEY WILL HELP ME!!!


:MandJ:

GAC
01-09-2005, 07:31 AM
Thanks for reminding me. Don't know how I could have misssed that. :slap:

You missed it because you're a long-haired, yellow-bellied, son of John Kerry! :mhcky21:


Placing "labels" on people (i.e. conservative, liberal, right, left, religious, etc)is an easy way to give explanation without going into any great detail.

WVRed
01-09-2005, 09:05 AM
If you voted for Kerry you're a Commie hippie elitist, you're not a patriot and you're probably French.

Does that about cover it?

I thought about posting "If you voted for Kerry, you are a baby killing communist". I thought this thread however conveys the message thats been sent in the two other threads here on Redszone.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30925

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30578

Ravenlord
01-09-2005, 09:09 AM
Democrat Party sucks, Republican Party sucks, and America will one day die because of them.

America, the place bipartisanship goes to die

one Civil War and counting. :gac:

:(

:dflynn:

Redsfaithful
01-09-2005, 09:27 AM
I thought about posting "If you voted for Kerry, you are a baby killing communist". I thought this thread however conveys the message thats been sent in the two other threads here on Redszone.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30925

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30578

You could have contributed to a constructive debate on the first of those threads, but I guess this suits you more?

I wonder if you even bothered to read the article I posted.

The conservatives that actually read the article didn't seem to have as much of a problem with it as those that just saw the word fascist and decided to start threads such as these that have no purpose except to further drag down the level of discourse on this side of the board.

GAC
01-09-2005, 10:08 AM
You could have contributed to a constructive debate on the first of those threads, but I guess this suits you more?

I wonder if you even bothered to read the article I posted.

The conservatives that actually read the article didn't seem to have as much of a problem with it as those that just saw the word fascist and decided to start threads such as these that have no purpose except to further drag down the level of discourse on this side of the board.


Then maybe you shouldn't have used the word "fascist" in your thread title, which is never used or implied in the article.

You don't like labels, but yet you use them to serve your purpose.

Just because I disagree with you, does not mean I am a fascist.

You obviously do not know what fascism is, or else you wouldn't have been so loose in throwing out the term, and insulting alot of people in this country. ;)

Redsfaithful
01-09-2005, 10:10 AM
Then maybe you shouldn't have used the word "fascist" in your thread title, which is never used or implied in the article.

IMO, I find your ideology closer to fascism (or maybe communism) then anything I advocate or believe in. ;)

Sometime you're a parody of yourself, do you know that?

The name of the article I posted was the name of the thread. Congratulations on proving my point.

Redsfaithful
01-09-2005, 10:11 AM
Nice change of words there GAC, I would have backed up and hit the edit button too.

LvJ
01-09-2005, 10:22 AM
Heated laughter. Heated laughter.

http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/products/a379/a379.gif

C'mon. Laugh. This thread is a joke.

RF, we all know it was the article title by now, but I guess next time, to prevent such outcomes, put the title in parenthesis with the authors name, and/or with a question mark if that's not your words. I guess it'll make it easier on you. I for one only attempt to debate something on these forums when I truly care about the message or the attack or the whatever it shall be. That's why I rarely jump in. They all head the same direction and rarely do they bring up anything new or interesting. Y'know? I like reading the discussions though.

Redsfaithful
01-09-2005, 10:25 AM
I love T-shirt hell. Wouldn't actually have the guts to wear 99% of their clothing, but it's great stuff.

paintmered
01-09-2005, 10:47 AM
I am a fascist hick who's boss is Donald Rumsfeld :buttkick:

westofyou
01-09-2005, 10:49 AM
but I guess next time, to prevent such outcomes, put the title in parenthesis with the authors name, and/or with a question mark if that's not your words.

Or don't do it..... and just maybe someone will actually read the article and attack the article instead of the guy who posted the article?

That probably would be too much to ask though.

Too bad it's not just a Sabr vs Traditionalist argument, then we could blame poorly behaved Sabr guys for the misunderstanding. :mhcky21:

GAC
01-09-2005, 10:59 AM
Sometime you're a parody of yourself, do you know that?

The name of the article I posted was the name of the thread. Congratulations on proving my point.

And what point would that be RF? That we are all fascists?

Do you even know what a fascist is? Obviously not. :rolleyes:

A representive democracy, where the people vote, is not a fascist state just because you or whoever don't like the outcome.

GAC
01-09-2005, 11:01 AM
Nice change of words there GAC, I would have backed up and hit the edit button too.

That was not the reason I edited it. But I do believe you're a communist though. ;)

Phoenix
01-09-2005, 11:04 AM
Anybody who even remotely claims that Red States are fascists are simply trying way too hard to get their article/thread some attention. That or they are simply ignorant to what fascism is.

westofyou
01-09-2005, 11:08 AM
Why don't you guys just drive over to RF's house and take his PC away.

That might make you feel better. :p:

Redsfaithful
01-09-2005, 11:08 AM
And what point would that be RF? That we are all fascists?

No GAC. My point was that the name of the article I posted was the same as the name of my post.

Therefore you were wrong when you wrote that the article I posted did not use the word fascist.

That was my point.

How that wasn't obvious, I really don't know, but there you go.

GAC
01-09-2005, 11:42 AM
No GAC. My point was that the name of the article I posted was the same as the name of my post.

Therefore you were wrong when you wrote that the article I posted did not use the word fascist.

That was my point.

How that wasn't obvious, I really don't know, but there you go.

Fine. I'll give you that.But you still haven't answered my contention that you somehow feel that I, and a majority of others in this country, who voted for Bush, are somehow fascists??

You have no idea what a fascist is if you advocate or believe this. And after reading the article, and seeing what this author stated.... he doesn't either when I see some of the wild-eyed assertions he makes therein.

He no more understands conservativism, and especialy people of faith, then progressives like you do. But since you lost this current election, you fighting/struggling to find some sort of answer that will help you figure this whole thing out.

So if calling everyone who supports Bush "fascist" makes you feel better, then I dont want to rain on your parade Alice. :lol:

RBA
01-09-2005, 11:47 AM
I don't think conservatives understand conservatism. :eek: As you know the Bush Administration and the Republican controlled congress has run up the hugest debts in American History. But I'm sure you are going to tell us how it's the Democrats who did it. :rolleyes:

cincinnati chili
01-09-2005, 11:51 AM
Discuss

Re: If you voted for Bush, you are a fascist hick

I believe "fascist hick" is the politically incorrect term. The euphemism I saw following the election was "coalition between the greedy and the ill-informed."

Redsfaithful
01-09-2005, 11:52 AM
I don't think conservatives understand conservatism.

So, so true.

Reds4Life
01-09-2005, 01:12 PM
Fascist hick, checking in.

:)

RedsBaron
01-09-2005, 01:32 PM
I don't think conservatives understand conservatism. :eek:
Yeah, conservatives are just stupid fascist hicks, so of course they don't understand conservatism. Fortunately there are liberals to explain it all, but please don't use any big words. :rolleyes:

Chip R
01-09-2005, 01:36 PM
I find it interesting to hear the winners whining about being called names by the losers. Sour grapes are usually for the losers.

Spring~Fields
01-09-2005, 05:28 PM
I didn't know we had a choice, either vote for Bush or ???

RFS62
01-09-2005, 05:38 PM
I believe "fascist hick" is the politically incorrect term. The euphemism I saw following the election was "coalition between the greedy and the ill-informed."


That's much better. I'm no longer offended.

:p:

zombie-a-go-go
01-10-2005, 08:20 AM
I find it interesting to hear the winners whining about being called names by the losers. Sour grapes are usually for the losers.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I think a lot of US citizens, no matter what their political affiliation, subconsciously feel bad about how well off they are compared to the rest of the world, and thus have to erect a "victim complex" so they, too, can feel downtrodden and oppressed.

Everyone wants to be a martyr, just so long as they don't have to actually suffer for it.

In summation, I believe most US citizens are spoiled, whiny little babies. :D

RFS62
01-10-2005, 08:25 AM
I think that nobody on either side wants to be called a fascist, or ignorant, or a hick.

creek14
01-10-2005, 08:26 AM
What I love most about these threads are how people post new thoughts and so many minds are changed.

Ravenlord
01-10-2005, 08:28 AM
Welcome to the system
Here's the situation
It's a bit confusing
Welcome to the maze
Everybody sees what

Everybody wants to
Everyone avoids
Every other gaze

I will be your mentor
I'll be your advisor
I'll do what I do
And you will look away
Forgetting what you see
Has always been much wiser
But someone in the back is missing what I say

Got a complaint in the system
Got a complaint in the system

Welcome to the park now
We supply amusements
Everybody rides
But everybody pays

What good's causing problems
When no one's complaining
What good is a martyr
If no one is saved

Everybody knows us
Everybody sees us

Every single child

Can tell you where we are

Every politician
Says that we are leaving
But in all this time

We haven't gone too far

Got a complaint in the system
Got a complaint in the system

You should understand it
It's not underhanded
It's really quite simple you see

The right and the wrong of it
Long and the short of it
Black and the white of it
Forget the sight of it
It is so much cheaper

To be no one's keeper

Trust me

In the dead of the night
You can stab with a knife
But it's rare you'll ever get anywhere

So we laugh in delight
Till you turn on a light
And we scatter for the darkness
Or the corners filled with blackness
And we're
There
There

Where
Where
There

"Complaint in the System"-Savatage

Redsfaithful
01-10-2005, 08:32 AM
What I love most about these threads are how people post new thoughts and so many minds are changed.

My favorite is people who act like they're above it all and yet post anyway.
;)

See the winkie? That made what I said harmless!

creek14
01-10-2005, 08:45 AM
My favorite is people who act like they're above it all and yet post anyway.
;)

See the winkie? That made what I said harmless!
Gee I don't recall posting I was above it all.

Trying to change someoneís political views is like trying to convince BadFundamentals that Dunn is a stud at the plate. Trying to change someoneís political views by posting the same thing in 100 different threads still isnít going to change minds.

And name-calling, which all of these threads degenerate to (even when one inserts a ;) ), is never going to win anyone to the other side.

It's just an exercise in futility.

Redsfaithful
01-10-2005, 08:57 AM
Gee I don't recall posting I was above it all.

Trying to change someoneís political views is like trying to convince BadFundamentals that Dunn is a stud at the plate. Trying to change someoneís political views by posting the same thing in 100 different threads still isnít going to change minds.

And name-calling, which all of these threads degenerate to (even when one inserts a ;) ), is never going to win anyone to the other side.

It's just an exercise in futility.

You're probably right, honestly. I enjoy debating issues, but I'm seeing less and less of that. I'm not sure how to fix that, but I'd like to see a better environment to discuss things. Maybe that's impossible. I try to be respectful, but the condescending attitudes and trolling from certain people has been getting ridiculous lately.

Ravenlord
01-10-2005, 09:03 AM
i think quite honestly, i'm the only person who's had any of their politcal views changed by these threads in the course of almost 2 years now......

RedsBaron
01-10-2005, 09:36 AM
You're probably right, honestly. I enjoy debating issues, but I'm seeing less and less of that. I'm not sure how to fix that, but I'd like to see a better environment to discuss things. Maybe that's impossible. I try to be respectful, but the condescending attitudes and trolling from certain people has been getting ridiculous lately.
I too dislike the condescending attitudes I see some posters here exhibit. Examples would include statements to the effect that while not all Republicans are stupid, most stupid people are Republicans and statements asserting that consservatives don't understand conservatism.
I also find it a bit much to equate the "religious right" with Nazis and the Holocaust and to try to blame people of faith for every evil that has ever exited in the world. Probably adherents no ideology have ever murdered more people than have adherents to communism, which is officially athiestic.

Redsfaithful
01-10-2005, 09:47 AM
I too dislike the condescending attitudes I see some posters here exhibit. Examples would include statements to the effect that while not all Republicans are stupid, most stupid people are Republicans and statements asserting that consservatives don't understand conservatism.
I also find it a bit much to equate the "religious right" with Nazis and the Holocaust and to try to blame people of faith for every evil that has ever exited in the world. Probably adherents no ideology have ever murdered more people than have adherents to communism, which is officially athiestic.

Wow, dragging up something I said over a year ago. Can't get anything past you.


and statements asserting that consservatives don't understand conservatism.

Please show me how George W. Bush has taken conservative actions with anything that he's done. I guess he cut taxes, but the government has gotten massive.

Why do we need a Department of Homeland Security again when we have a Department of Defense?


I also find it a bit much to equate the "religious right" with Nazis and the Holocaust and to try to blame people of faith for every evil that has ever exited in the world.

Your right to disagree, but I'm not sure I see how that's condescending?


Probably adherents no ideology have ever murdered more people than have adherents to communism, which is officially athiestic.

Stalin killed a lot of people, but Germany was considered a Christian nation. I'm sorry you dislike that, but everything Hitler did was done in the name of God.

You can't just pass off evil things that Christians have done as not counting simply because you don't really consider those people to be Christians. That's not the way it works. Because politically active Christians in this country want a free pass for whatever they do, because they feel God wants them to do it. There were Germans who felt the same way. People in this country are being denied Constitutional rights because of other people's religious beliefs. If people could simply practice their own religion and stop trying to impose it on others I don't think anyone would have a problem.

Religious fundamentalism is fundamentally oppressive.

RFS62
01-10-2005, 09:49 AM
Stalin killed a lot of people, but Germany was considered a Christian nation. I'm sorry you dislike that, but everything Hitler did was done in the name of God.



Now I really have heard it all.

CbusRed
01-10-2005, 09:57 AM
It isnt really the political debating that bothers me, It has its place in its designated threads.

What bothers me is when people take a thread, and turn it into a political issue, or use it as an opprotunity to bash our president. A prime example of this is the tsunami thread that ultimatley resulted in myself being banned.

What is the point in it? You arent changing anyone's mind.

To use a quote I heard on the season premeire of 24 last night...

Spare me your sixth grade Michael Moore logic. The world is a little more complicated than that.

Redsfaithful
01-10-2005, 09:58 AM
Now I really have heard it all.

I've gone over this more than once. Hitler was Catholic.

From Mein Kampf:


Therefore, I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's Work

He said many, many similar things in speeches and things over the years, and the German people were also fervently religious.

Also, as an addendum to what I said in response to RB. I'm not trying to say that I'm never disrespectful or condescending. I certainly am. However, I strive not to be, and I try to be respectful of other people's opinions, and I try to never attack the person giving the opinion. I'd rather offer my disagreement for why I feel they're wrong than a comment on the poster who presented the idea.

Redsfaithful
01-10-2005, 10:05 AM
What bothers me is when people take a thread, and turn it into a political issue, or use it as an opprotunity to bash our president. A prime example of this is the tsunami thread that ultimatley resulted in myself being banned.

That rarely happens in my opinion. Most threads that talk about politics are political in nature.


Spare me your sixth grade Michael Moore logic. The world is a little more complicated than that.

What bothers me is when people write things that can't be construed as anything other than insulting. What was the point of the above statement? I honestly can't think of one except to belittle other people.

CbusRed
01-10-2005, 10:09 AM
That rarely happens in my opinion. Most threads that talk about politics are political in nature.
Hmm, thats funny. I would expect you to have such an opinion, based on the fact that you could be guilty of this.




What bothers me is when people write things that can't be construed as anything other than insulting. What was the point of the above statement? I honestly can't think of one except to belittle other people.
Well, sometimes, some people deserve to be belittled. ;)

Redsfaithful
01-10-2005, 10:11 AM
Well, sometimes, some people deserve to be belittled. ;)

Yeah they do. But I'll abstain.

Ravenlord
01-10-2005, 10:13 AM
at least it was more than an emoticon this time. :rolleyes:

RedFanAlways1966
01-10-2005, 10:13 AM
Religion had ZERO to do with the history of Germany in the 1930's and 1940's as we know it. I cannot believe the inferences that are being made. If some could get over their hangups with losing to W (twice), they'd understand the truth in that history. Something about major economic depression that lingered since the end of WWI in Germany. Something about Europe not keeping tabs (or decinding to let it go) on Germany in regard to the Treaty of Versailles. Something about Germans (and esp. their leaders) having a elitist attitude towards other Europeans.

It really is sad to see you try to make this correlation, RF. Politics are bad enough, but to infer that Christianity had a part in the Holocaust is too much. B/c Hitler had a religion and b/c people of Germany were religious has nothing to do with the actions SOME of these people took during WWII.

Extremism? Only a Michael Moore type would be proud of these outlandish comments. Religion... such a terrible thing. And I am so sick-and-tired of the Michael Moore types badmouthing religion. Religious groups supporting W are no different than Unions supporting Kerry. No different than the NAACP supporting Kerry. No different than the Nat'l Education Assoc. supporting Kerry. But extreme leftists just hate it that Repubs can have their little groups of supporters too. Especially those "Holocaust-loving" religious types. Those terrible and disgusting religious people. Why do we let them vote?

I just hate it when morals get in the way of elections. Morals, like religion, is such a terrible thing. Morals... look up the definition in the dictionary. A terrible thing. Perhaps the extreme leftists need some of these moral people on their side? Might help with the next election... since their non-moral types (Moore) caused more-and-more of those terrible moralists to get to the polls.

Oops... almost forgot! Ted Bundy used to campaign for local Repubs back in his college days. Lets not forget that. All Repubs must be serial killers. Such a simplistic inference. Anyone can do it.

Spring~Fields
01-10-2005, 10:14 AM
Trying to change someoneís political views by posting the same thing in 100 different threads still isnít going to change minds.



Doesn't that fall under:

"5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Redsfaithful
01-10-2005, 10:20 AM
RFA google the People's Church of Nazi Germany sometime.

RedFanAlways1966
01-10-2005, 01:00 PM
RFA google the People's Church of Nazi Germany sometime.

Know a lot about that, RF. It just isn't that simple. To paint it that way is just too simplistic. Religion has been through a lot. Many religions, many things. But if it makes you feel better about trashing religion, then so be it.

Redsfaithful
01-10-2005, 01:05 PM
Know a lot about that, RF. It just isn't that simple. To paint it that way is just too simplistic. Religion has been through a lot. Many religions, many things. But if it makes you feel better about trashing religion, then so be it.

I'm not trashing religion RFA. If I'm trashing anything I guess I'm trashing extremists. Religion is a positive influence in the vast majority of people's lives. But when it becomes intertwined with government very bad things tend to happen.

RedFanAlways1966
01-10-2005, 01:10 PM
I'm not trashing religion RFA. If I'm trashing anything I guess I'm trashing extremists. Religion is a positive influence in the vast majority of people's lives. But when it becomes intertwined with government very bad things tend to happen.

I'll agree to some extent, RF. Religion, as a whole, is a good thing. But there are bad people who get involved w/ religion. I am not a gun-person, but I relate it to the saying "guns don't kill people, people kill people". Religion (as a whole) is not bad, but there are bad people in religion. I hope all that makes sense!

And the right & left both have whackos... no doubt!

WVRed
01-10-2005, 04:18 PM
Spare me your sixth grade Michael Moore logic. The world is a little more complicated than that.

http://www.glennbeck.com/picoftheday/01-10-05-pod.jpg

:gac:

15fan
01-10-2005, 04:45 PM
I very well could be a facist hick.

But if you look at his numbers, the early returns indicate that Dave was a solid pick in the '01 draft.

I voted for Bush back then, and I still maintain it was a solid pick.

If you don't like it, then :allovrjr:

RedsBaron
01-11-2005, 07:07 AM
I've gone over this more than once. Hitler was Catholic.

From Mein Kampf:



He said many, many similar things in speeches and things over the years, and the German people were also fervently religious.

Also, as an addendum to what I said in response to RB. I'm not trying to say that I'm never disrespectful or condescending. I certainly am. However, I strive not to be, and I try to be respectful of other people's opinions, and I try to never attack the person giving the opinion. I'd rather offer my disagreement for why I feel they're wrong than a comment on the poster who presented the idea.
RF has posted this before and I respectfully again reject the argument.
While Hitler was brought up as a Catholic and reportedly respected the power of the Catholic Church's organization, I've never read of Hitler ever accepting any of its teachings or giving any evidence of being a Christian. How many times did Hitler attend Mass while the Fuhrer?
Hitler was probably the greatest liar in human history, so his proclaiming to be doing the "Lord's work" in murdering Jews doesn't "prove" IMO that he was a Christian or even that he considered himself to be one. The only "god" Hitler seemed to believe in was himself.
I'm reminded of the story attributed to Abraham Lincoln, who observed that even if you call a horse's tail a leg, a horse doesn't have five legs, because calling the tail a leg doesn't make it a leg. Statements by Hitler that he was a Christian doesn't make him one. Jesus Christ proclaimed that there would be those who claimed to be His servants and that He would tell them to depart from Him as He never knew them (Matthew 7:23).

Redsfaithful
01-11-2005, 08:26 AM
Hitler was probably the greatest liar in human history, so his proclaiming to be doing the "Lord's work" in murdering Jews doesn't "prove" IMO that he was a Christian or even that he considered himself to be one. The only "god" Hitler seemed to believe in was himself.

It's my opinion that it really doesn't matter whether or not Hitler was a Christian. What mattered is whether the German people believed he was, and if they did believe that he was did he use it to manipulate them?

I think the answer to both of those questions is yes. That's why religion is frightening when used by the government, and it's why I strongly dislike Bush and those like him constantly talking about doing God's work, etc.

Rojo
01-11-2005, 12:43 PM
Jesus Christ proclaimed that there would be those who claimed to be His servants and that He would tell them to depart from Him as He never knew them (Matthew 7:23).

That passage still rings true today.

smith288
01-11-2005, 12:55 PM
Im not a fascist hick...Im just a Bible thumping moron who eats up the propaganda fed to me by CNN (*snort* - Some people believe that CNN is right wing...I tell you no lies)

WVRed
01-11-2005, 01:17 PM
Im not a fascist hick...Im just a Bible thumping moron who eats up the propaganda fed to me by CNN (*snort* - Some people believe that CNN is right wing...I tell you no lies)

Dont you mean Fox News?;)

GAC
01-12-2005, 08:58 PM
Stalin killed a lot of people, but Germany was considered a Christian nation. I'm sorry you dislike that, but everything Hitler did was done in the name of God.

This is the most absurb notion that I have ever heard. I don't know who has gotten into your head, but your impressions/attitude towards Christians is so wrong and misguided.

Hitler, like so many other past corrupt world leaders, was a deranged pschopath who used any and all avenues to carry out his perverted agenda, including evoking the name of God. It wasn't God that motivated him to exterminate 6 million of whom God says are his "chosen people" (Jews). ;)

Now maybe Hitler (and the German people) may have thought so; but Jesus said that when the blind lead the blind, they both will end up in a ditch. If the Germans were truly Christian, or considered themselves a Christian nation (i.e. followers of Christ), then there is no way they could have allowed their leaders to lead them down this path.

Saddam and Bin Laden say that everything they did/do is also in the name of God. So did Charles Manson. We see in the news daily where some emotionally deranged individual goes off the deep end and does an atrocious act, and then claims God was telling them to do so.

Bill Clinton spent quite a bit of time while President canvassing and speaking in churches (especially African-American churches). He told one church "I am doing the will of God on this earth."

Where was the outcry then?


You can't just pass off evil things that Christians have done as not counting simply because you don't really consider those people to be Christians. That's not the way it works.

It sure does work that way. Especially when you attach the label "Christian" to someone like Hitler who was not a Christian. And then try to use that analogy to insult and label all Christians as fascists!

In fact, Jesus, and the apostles in the early church taught that the way you "test the prophets" and those who claim to be his representatives is by looking at the "fruit of their deeds" and if their agenda/ideology is in-line with his Word. So show me again where Jesus and his followers (fascists) advocated genocide?

You are again under the misconception that just because someone attachs the Christian "label" to themselves that therefore it must be true. But I, and millions of other Christians look at thier works. We can't look at their "hearts", only God can do that. But their outward works are pretty indicative of what is in their hearts.


Because politically active Christians in this country want a free pass for whatever they do, because they feel God wants them to do it.

Examples please? I have no idea what you are talking about. If anything, Christians believe in personal responsibility/accountability, because we believe that one day we all will stand thus before a just and holy God.

And we are just as empassioned on all sorts of social issues as you may be. It just so happens that we differ in opinion, and in some cases, the appraoch taken.


Religious fundamentalism is fundamentally oppressive.

This statement, the way it is phrased, is hilarious. Fundamentally speaking of course. ;)

This is a supreme example of why progressives like yourself, and MAYBE why many within your party, are not able to "connect" with people of faith in this country (especially in those red states).

You want a religion that is free of any type of "restraints" (as you might define them). It's all superficial and outward. It's OK for one to attend church regularly, listen to a good sermon, and basically go through the motions and feign religiousity. But for heavens sake, keep it where it belongs.... in the church and in the home. Don't let it be seen, displayed, or lived out in the public forum. It's offensive and oppressive. And you're not allowed to let your relgious views dictact or influence how one conducts themselves in this life.

That is called hypocrisy in my book RF.

If only Jesus had done that he wouldn't have been persecuted and crucified. He was such a rebel-rouser. Also the apostles and early church.

Many who would say the same thing about secularism and liberalism, fundamentally speaking. I find societies founded on secularism, such as Communist Russia, China, N. Korea, and now even aspects of France and Canada, as being oppressive. Ever notice the trend within some of these nations that the first "freedom" they attack or take away is religious freedom? Why?

It only seems "oppressive" to someone like yourself who defines moral values in a completely different light.

You believe "truth is relative" (what each individual wants to make it to be). In the Gospels when Jesus told those soon-to-be apostles to "leave all and follow him", and that he was the "the way, the truth, and the light", was he somehow advocating a sort of oppressive fascism?

The bottomline is that you RF (and the author of this article/editorial) is trying to find some sort of reasoning/rationale as to why you lost this current election. Youre still scratching your heads over how this could happen. And since it is absurd for you (or your party) to look inwardly and maybe, just maybe, think they are doing something wrong, or took missteps, that lead to their failure at not "connecting" with that electorate, you have to find that "culprit" elsewhere (outward)... religion.

And instead of trying to understand, or figure out a way to reach out to that important segment of our population... and it is a an important and influential segment..... you attack and insult them.

You seem to have no problem with using hate speech when it serves your purpose.

That is gonna go a long way to helping your party in 2008. ;)

redsrule2500
01-13-2005, 12:32 AM
Wow over half the United States are facist hicks? Interesting.

I'm also a facist hick....sweet.

tom browning
01-13-2005, 01:12 AM
Take a look at the map of the civil war and compare em to this past election. Its virtually identical.

I dont think everyone who voted for Bush is a fascist hick. I just think a great deal were uninformed or knee jerk voters voting out of fear. I was amazed at the amount of people voting for Bush simply because of Iraq- Terrorism. Then they dont even look at his and his brothers insane open door immigration ideas.

Bush should have never been elected this past time.( I say that because he was never elected the first time). Has nothiong to do with liberal conservative crap either. Has to do with hes a dangerous idiot. Worst thing that ever happened was McCain losing the primary. HIM Id would have liked to see as president. Not this crooked jackass we got now.

CbusRed
01-13-2005, 01:31 AM
I just think a great deal were uninformed or knee jerk voters voting out of fear.



Tell that to the girl in front of me in the election line who told me she was voting for Kerry because "he likes black people" :rolleyes:

tom browning
01-13-2005, 01:31 AM
..

Im gonna make this my last post because I want to keep my posts here limited to baseball and really dont feel like people basing my baseball opinions on politics.

With that let me say, ANYONE who votes in the Presidential election and places their vote for pure moral or religious reasons, is a moron. Only an idiot would elect the President of the United States based on wtf their church tells them. I could give a crap less if we had a gay drunken transvestite monkey as president, as long as he can do the job and not run the country into the ground like the criminal, drunken, drug addict, lying, draft dodging, thieving monkey we have in office now.

Btw, the Bush familys sins makes Clinton look like a piker.

Leave the preaching in the church and the home. Where it belongs.

tom browning
01-13-2005, 01:34 AM
Tell that to the girl in front of me in the election line who told me she was voting for Kerry because "he likes black people" :rolleyes:

Didnt say there wasnt idiots on both sides.

CbusRed
01-13-2005, 01:35 AM
Didnt say there wasnt idiots on both sides.

Hah, you proved that with your last post.

DunnersGrl44
01-13-2005, 01:40 AM
:eek:
well its good to know that you are more concered about baseball than our current president and the way that he runs the country. I voted becasue of fear. I voted for Bush because Kerry's an idiot and that scared me. But, I assume you won't ever see this, because you are too busy with the all important baseball side, especially during the off season.




Im gonna make this my last post because I want to keep my posts here limited to baseball and really dont feel like people basing my baseball opinions on politics.

With that let me say, ANYONE who votes in the Presidential election and places their vote for pure moral or religious reasons, is a moron. Only an idiot would elect the President of the United States based on wtf their church tells them. I could give a crap less if we had a gay drunken transvestite monkey as president, as long as he can do the job and not run the country into the ground like the criminal, drunken, drug addict, lying, draft dodging, thieving monkey we have in office now.

Btw, the Bush familys sins makes Clinton look like a piker.

Leave the preaching in the church and the home. Where it belongs.

Redsfaithful
01-13-2005, 03:15 AM
Tell that to the girl in front of me in the election line who told me she was voting for Kerry because "he likes black people" :rolleyes:

Then again she does have a point. 90% of black people vote Democrat. That says a lot. I'd be uncomfortable voting for a party that can only garner 10% of a sizable minority's vote, but that's just me.

Crumbley
01-13-2005, 06:15 AM
Hitler wasn't so bad.
/Marge

GAC
01-13-2005, 08:18 AM
With that let me say, ANYONE who votes in the Presidential election and places their vote for pure moral or religious reasons, is a moron. Only an idiot would elect the President of the United States based on wtf their church tells them.

Isn't it funny how it's perfectly OK and appropriate for people to allow their own personal beliefs and ideology to influence them and determine how they vote, but people of faith shouldn't, and are morons and idiots if they do?



I could give a crap less if we had a gay drunken transvestite monkey as president, as long as he can do the job

Write him in next time then. ;)

http://www.kirkorian.hpg.ig.com.br/lancelot/lance11.jpg

tom browning
01-13-2005, 01:14 PM
:rolleyes:
Ok, I know I said I wasnt going to post in this thread but I am going to clairfy that one thing.

I dont base my vote one an ideology or personal belief. I base my vote on Economic reasons, immigration reasons, labor issues, foreign diplomacy, less governmental interference in mine OR anyone elses lives, ability to handle a crisis, social security, health care. All issues that Bush just sucks on.

THATS what you SHOULD have based your vote on, and if you didnt, your a fool. Its also why we have that crooked moron in office again. Cause we have alot of fools in this country.

What the religious right doesnt realise is, they are worrying about OTHERS lives. Well first they come for me, then they come for them, and then they come for you. Something to keep in mind the next time you throw away your vote. Cause govt inteference in our lives is a BAD thing.

I dont force my beliefs into your homes, schools, govt business. So dont try and force yours into mine. Most liberal issues are not forced on anybody. How does a gay couple getting married interfere with your life? In what way do the so called issues interfere with you? Why does god have to be in our schools or courts when it should be in your homes and churches instead ? Why cant we have prayers and statues to Satan :mhcky21: held in schools and courts as well ?

I dont see the Buddhist running around trying to cram Buddha down our throats and erect statues everywhere. I dont see the Jews running around trying to place torahs on the courtroom walls. Why cant we acknowledge Durga in the pledge? Why do we even have a pledge which amounts to forced patriotism?

I have ZERO respect for anyone who would impose their religious belief onto others. Especially in the form of laws.

In god we trust didnt appear on US currency until 1864. Almost a 100 years AFTER the founding of this country. And only because an idiot was in charge of the Treasury at the time. One who decided to cater to the religious right.

The religious right is becoming just like the Nazi party. An oppressive force of ideology imposed upon people. Voting out of fear rather then the issues. They are dangerous in reality. I worry if this country goes into a depression, we might not see the Nazi party come again, straight out of the religious right. Afterall, thats exactly where the Neo Nazis currently are. Think about it.

RedFanAlways1966
01-13-2005, 01:30 PM
The religious right is becoming just like the Nazi party. An oppressive force of ideology imposed upon people. Voting out of fear rather then the issues. They are dangerous in reality. I worry if this country goes into a depression, we might not see the Nazi party come again, straight out of the religious right. Afterall, thats exactly where the Neo Nazis currently are. Think about it.

You like to call people idiots. Must be an expert in idiocy? I doubt that is a shock to too many people who read your extremist views. Your leftist extremism is every bit as bad as those who are right-leaning extremists in your world. Guess that makes you an a hypocrite.

Never did tell us why Sen. Kerry would have been a good choice. Just Bush hatred. Michael Moore like. You know... the guy who helped your side lose. Would you think a person is an an idiot to vote for someone b/c they SIMPLY do not like the other choice?

Now we think the Repubs will be the next Nazi party. Nice! Only an idiot wouldn't see your view, right? Of course reasonable thinking people (even some of those who do not like Pres. Bush) see that you are an extremist with certain paranoid behaviors. And your hatred for religion is as bad as any Nazi's hatred for anything. Hate is hate regardless of who/what is hated. You definitely show hatred in your posts here. Hate comes in all shapes and sizes. The Nazis hate certain religions and races, you hate religion and Republicans. No difference in my opinion. Nazis call those they hate names. You call those you hate idiots.

Try not to be so scared of religion or religious people. Despite your labeling, most of them are good. I am not overly-religious, but I am also not an idiot. Funny thing... most normal-thinking (key... normal-thinking!) people would read your post and know who the real idiot is. Go figure. Be sure to stay locked inside on Sundays... all those religious Nazis are out-and-about. They might apprehend you and your family (if you have one) and put you in a concentration camp. I hear there is a secret camp just east of Lebanon, OH. Be careful!!

Falls City Beer
01-13-2005, 01:30 PM
Im gonna make this my last post because I want to keep my posts here limited to baseball and really dont feel like people basing my baseball opinions on politics.

With that let me say, ANYONE who votes in the Presidential election and places their vote for pure moral or religious reasons, is a moron. Only an idiot would elect the President of the United States based on wtf their church tells them. I could give a crap less if we had a gay drunken transvestite monkey as president, as long as he can do the job and not run the country into the ground like the criminal, drunken, drug addict, lying, draft dodging, thieving monkey we have in office now.

Btw, the Bush familys sins makes Clinton look like a piker.

Leave the preaching in the church and the home. Where it belongs.


:thatrocks

zombie-a-go-go
01-13-2005, 01:36 PM
Hmm. Well, I think this thread has pretty much served its purpose, which is to say that it served no purpose at all.

Round 42,855 is over, and the score is still tied nothing-nothing. Bring on the Card Girls.