PDA

View Full Version : Do The Steelers Have A Chance Against The Patriots?



Krusty
01-16-2005, 10:54 PM
Ole Krusty is a diehard Steelers fan just as much as a Reds fan. So I ask for an honest answer here:

Do the Steelers have a chance of beating the Patriots?

MWM
01-16-2005, 11:02 PM
If Big Ben is fully healthy (and I don't buy that nothing was wrong with his throwing hand yesterday), then I think they should be the favorites. Without a healthy Ben, I don't think they'll win.

CbusRed
01-16-2005, 11:07 PM
Ole Krusty is a diehard Steelers fan just as much as a Reds fan. So I ask for an honest answer here:

Do the Steelers have a chance of beating the Patriots?

I think so.

The X-factor in this game is Corey Dillon. He was out when the steelers beat the pats in the regular season. I think if they can hold him under 100 they will win. They held Curtis Martin to 77 yesterday in an overtime game.

I think that the running games are about even, Defenses about even, but I give the passing game to the Steelers.

CbusRed
01-16-2005, 11:11 PM
If Big Ben is fully healthy (and I don't buy that nothing was wrong with his throwing hand yesterday), then I think they should be the favorites. Without a healthy Ben, I don't think they'll win.

I think alot of his passing woes had to do with the Glove he was wearing on his throwing hand. Rarely do you see a QB do that, and having tried to throw a football with batting gloves on at tailgates, its hard to do.

RFS62
01-17-2005, 12:17 AM
No, they don't.

Redsfaithful
01-17-2005, 12:45 AM
No, they don't.

Yeah. I have to agree. Even playing at home. I think the only way Pittsburgh wins is if their special teams or defense scores a couple of touchdowns.

Phoenix
01-17-2005, 12:57 AM
After watching the Patriots today and the Steelers yesterday, its hard to imagine the Steelers could win. The Patriots look really, really good.

deltachi8
01-17-2005, 01:40 AM
Ol' Deltachi8 is also a life long Steeler fan as well as a Reds fan, and sadly, i dont think they have much of a chance.

RedsBaron
01-17-2005, 08:00 AM
I think the Steelers have a chance, just not a good chance.

Danny Serafini
01-17-2005, 10:37 AM
I'll be surprised if the Steelers don't win. Pittsburgh is the #1 seed, not New England. There's a reason for that.

GAC
01-17-2005, 10:13 PM
It's not gonna be a high scoring affair. Pitts passing offense was 28th in the NFL. Where was Indy's ranked? Both teams have solid defenses.

16-13 Pats. Don't bet against Bill Belichick when the marbles count. ;)

wheels
01-18-2005, 01:21 AM
I can't see anyone beating the Pats twice in the same season.

Plus, I don't think I could handle seeing the Steelers in the Super Bowl.

The Bengals shoulda beat 'em twice.

Brutus_the_Red
01-18-2005, 01:35 AM
No. I predict a long winter in Pittsburg.

Cedric
01-18-2005, 01:50 AM
Yes they can and will. Running dominant teams are the only teams with a shot at beating New England. Add in the best defense in the NFL and I see a Pittsburgh win.

Dom Heffner
01-18-2005, 02:59 AM
There's a reason for that.

Yeah, and it's the fact that Dillon sat out the game earlier in the year. The Pats set league lows with something like 4 rushing yards on 5 attempts.

Anyone think that is going to happen again?

The league's most overrated QB is about to be brought down to earth. I get sort of tired of sports fans being blown away by mediocrity. Rothlisberger isn't a 300 yard 4 TD kind of QB, which he doesn't need be in Pittsburgh, I understand, but I don't think defenses have to really plan for this caliber of player.

Put Rothlisberger on the Colts and they would have went nowhere.

I like Big Ben the person, and it isn't his fault he has been built up by the media, but he just isn't that good.

And whoever said the Steelers had the better passing game is smoking crack.

Mutaman
01-18-2005, 03:21 AM
[B]

The league's most overrated QB is about to be brought down to earth. .

Wrong, the league's most overated QB was brought down to earth on Sunday. His name is Manning, and he showed what he's like when he has to play outside on real grass. (On Friday Phil Simms called Manning the "Michael Jordan of the NFL". Think he'd like to have that statement back?).

The guy from the Steelers is only the third most overated, Pennington is number 2.

MWM
01-18-2005, 09:41 AM
Nah, no one could possibly be more over-rated than Tom Brady. I actually read on ESPN where a writer said that this past Sunday proves that Brady is better than Manning. Funny, I never saw Brady out on the field holding the best offense in the league to 3 points.

NJReds
01-18-2005, 10:13 AM
Nah, no one could possibly be more over-rated than Tom Brady.

Brady doesn't put up the prolific numbers, but he doesn't have the offensive weapons that Manning does, either. Until this year he had an average running game, at best, and a handful of good-not-great receivers. Manning has a HOF wide receiver and an All-Pro running back, two receiving TEs and two very good complimentary receivers.

Until Manning wins a big game outdoors, he'll continue to have his "greatness" questioned. He looked lost on Sunday. He looked defeated, confused and dejected in the first quarter.

For now, Manning QBs fantasy championship teams...Brady QBs Super Bowl championship teams.

For the record, I'm not a Patriots or a Colts fan. I like watching both Manning and Brady -- and I do want to see Manning get over the hump and win the big one. Overrated or not, Brady was a QB for 2 SBs, came out with 2 wins, and two SB MVP awards.

Danny Serafini
01-18-2005, 10:27 AM
This is the matchup of the 2 most overrated QBs in football. I'm really sick of the Big Ben hype, but at least they're not putting him in the Hall of Fame like they are Brady, which is ridiculous. Something tells me I'll just turn the TV off after the NFC title game, this one will just make me sick listening to the announcers gush over two average guys like they're Joe Montana.

Redsfaithful
01-18-2005, 10:43 AM
Nah, no one could possibly be more over-rated than Tom Brady. I actually read on ESPN where a writer said that this past Sunday proves that Brady is better than Manning. Funny, I never saw Brady out on the field holding the best offense in the league to 3 points.

Seriously. Brady pretty much put up the same numbers that Jon Kitna put up in 2003. That says something.

GAC
01-18-2005, 10:51 AM
I find it hard to label a QB over-rated when he was instrumental in winning 2 Super Bowls (and may win a 3rd). ;)

GAC
01-18-2005, 10:57 AM
EVERYONE MAKE NOTE OF THIS.... I AGREE WITH DOM!

:lol:

Pitt's passing offense was pretty putrid statistically speaking and overall.

Ben's a rookie, and because of that, needs to be given alot of credit for what he has accomplished this year. He's not a Manning. he doesn't throw for alot of yardage/game, nor the TDs. But I see him as having other fine points (alot like a Krentzel in some aspects)..... he's smart, makes few mistakes, and is very efficient with the passing yardage he does have.

Now that may be put to the test come this post-season, and against the Pats. He didn't exactly "shine" last weekend versus the Jets.

Both teams are gonna emphasize the run, and use the passing game to set up their running attack. It's gonna be a ball control-clock control type of game. And I'm still not betting against Belicheck on this one. ;)





There's a reason for that.

Yeah, and it's the fact that Dillon sat out the game earlier in the year. The Pats set league lows with something like 4 rushing yards on 5 attempts.

Anyone think that is going to happen again?

The league's most overrated QB is about to be brought down to earth. I get sort of tired of sports fans being blown away by mediocrity. Rothlisberger isn't a 300 yard 4 TD kind of QB, which he doesn't need be in Pittsburgh, I understand, but I don't think defenses have to really plan for this caliber of player.

Put Rothlisberger on the Colts and they would have went nowhere.

I like Big Ben the person, and it isn't his fault he has been built up by the media, but he just isn't that good.

And whoever said the Steelers had the better passing game is smoking crack.

Danny Serafini
01-18-2005, 11:23 AM
I find it hard to label a QB over-rated when he was instrumental in winning 2 Super Bowls (and may win a 3rd). ;)

I'd argue the defense and Bill Belichick were a lot more instrumental than Brady in winning those games. It's like the old saying says, the QB usually gets too much credit when the team wins and too much blame when they lose.

Dom Heffner
01-18-2005, 12:01 PM
Wrong, the league's most overated QB was brought down to earth on Sunday. His name is Manning, and he showed what he's like when he has to play outside on real grass. (On Friday Phil Simms called Manning the "Michael Jordan of the NFL". Think he'd like to have that statement back?).

Mutaman, I hate Peyton Manning. Cannot stand him. Watching him call 40,000 audibles per game and move around in the backfield the way he does is like watching a "very special episode" of Family Matters to me.

(And he makes playing the Colts on Madden almost unbearable. Is there a cheat code to make it stop?)

But the guy is not overrated. Anyone who thought he would throw for 400 yards and 5 TD against the Pats defense in the snow would have lost many a bet. Yes, the importance of having a guy like Manning can be overstated - he doesn't win games by himself- but geesh, the guy will go down as one of the best ever. That comes from someone who cannot stand the guy. Feel the same way about Eli. How sweet was it to watch the Chargers make the playoffs and see the Giants stay home?

The Brady argument is an interesting one. Someone said the other day that he is already a shoo-in hall of famer because of the 2 Super Bowls.

Personally, I think SuperBowls are overrated, at least in looking at an individual's performance. There is no way you would ever convince me that say, Phil Simms was a better QB than John Elway in 1986-87, yet Simms and the Giants won the Super Bowl. Super Bowls are won by teams, and I think Elway is the perfect example of this. When the NFC dominated the AFC all those years (they had better teams, imagine that), it had nothing to do with John Elway. Yet he was the goat of the team in some respects. When he finally got a running back and a great defense, the Broncos finally won a Super Bowl.

There was an article rating the best QBs a few months ago on espn.com, and Joe Montana was rated the best ever. All the panelists voting mentioned the Super Bowls that "he" won. I really find this a frustrating argument, because Joe Montana would not have won many Super Bowls playing for most other teams.

John Elway would have been number 1 on espn's list, but one sportswriter placed him 12th or 13th, thus assuring Montana the number one spot.

Can you imagine what Elway would have done on those 49er teams? Now imagine Joe Montana playing on the Broncos those years? Who do you think would have won more Super Bowls? Warren Moon would have made a killing playing for San Francisco.

For me, it's the team, not the QB, when it comes to Super Bowl wins.

Brady benefits from a terrific supporting cast, and while he is better than a Trent Dilfer, should not be cast into the hall of fame just because he has won 2 Super Bowls. I hate, hate, hate, how much Super Bowls are taken into account for the Pro Football hall of fame.

The same goes for all-time best lists. On on hand, they'll call Anthony Munoz the best tackle of all time - and he did not win any Super Bowls- yet Joe Montana can be considered the best QB of all time simply because he won so many. I'll take a lot of flack for this, but Joe Montana was not anywhere near the most talented QB that I have ever seen. Marino, Moon, Elway, Manning- now those are quarterbacks. Any one of those guys could have racked up Super Bowl rings playing for a team like the Niners. Heck, David Krieg would have won 4 Super Bowls playing for them.

To me, when we ask the question "Who is the best?" we should look at the player and not just how well their teams did. A great player can contribute to a team's winning, obviously, but an athlete can play wonderfully and still not win much. Earl Campbell played for some terrible Oilers teams, yet he was incredible. Same goes for Walter Payton. When the Bears finally won the Super Bowl, Walter was the same player he had been up until that point- he just finally had a team around him, so they won. Imagine that.

I'll get off my soapbox now and remind everyone that the planets have aligned in some strange fashion if GAC and I have agreed on anything.

I will admit GAC, when I saw that you responded to this post, I thought we would have something brand new to argue about.

Clarence Thomas, however, is another matter. :)

deltachi8
01-18-2005, 12:18 PM
The Bengals shoulda beat 'em twice.

coulda, woulda, shoulda

Puffy
01-18-2005, 12:43 PM
I think Drew Bledsoe will outplay Kordell Stewart and thus the New England Pats will win.

deltachi8
01-18-2005, 01:03 PM
There's a reason for that.

Yeah, and it's the fact that Dillon sat out the game earlier in the year. The Pats set league lows with something like 4 rushing yards on 5 attempts.

Anyone think that is going to happen again?

The league's most overrated QB is about to be brought down to earth. I get sort of tired of sports fans being blown away by mediocrity. Rothlisberger isn't a 300 yard 4 TD kind of QB, which he doesn't need be in Pittsburgh, I understand, but I don't think defenses have to really plan for this caliber of player.

Put Rothlisberger on the Colts and they would have went nowhere.

I like Big Ben the person, and it isn't his fault he has been built up by the media, but he just isn't that good.

And whoever said the Steelers had the better passing game is smoking crack.

Dillion didnt play but remember the PAts did fall behind big early - so Im not sure how much of a factor he woul dhave been anyways.

Rothlisberger is doing what the team asks him to do, thats it. He is a rookie and will get better.

The steelers, however, I think are in over their heads this weekend.

Puffy
01-18-2005, 01:49 PM
I think Terry Bradshaw will outplay Steve Grogan and therefore the Steelers will win.

Mutaman
01-18-2005, 02:06 PM
[B]

But the guy is not overrated. Anyone who thought he would throw for 400 yards and 5 TD against the Pats defense in the snow would have lost many a bet. Yes, the importance of having a guy like Manning can be overstated - he doesn't win games by himself- but geesh, the guy will go down as one of the best ever.



Don you make some good points. And I admit I am really predjudiced against stats put up in domes on artificial surfaces. The game was made to be played outdoors. I didn't expect Manning to throw 5 tds on Sunday but I don't think asking him to compete is too much. He scored 3 points against a team missing two cornerbacks and an all pro lineman. And he spent the whole game looking like he just wanted to be someplace else. Could you imagine Unitis, Montana, or Starr playing a game like that? You simply can't be labeled "great" if you can't win outdoors and you can't get past game two of the playoffs. Manning had a chance to shut people like me up Sunday and he failed miserably.

Oh and Munoz wasn't the greatest tackle ever, Forrest Gregg was.

Puffy
01-18-2005, 02:09 PM
Could you imagine Unitis, Montana, or Starr playing a game like that? You simply can't be labeled "great" if you can't win outdoors and you can't get past game two of the playoffs. Manning had a chance to shut people like me up Sunday and he failed miserably.



1986, Giants and the Niners in the Meadowlands. Joe Montana starting for the Niners. Giants win game 49-3.

A Joe Montana led team in the playoffs scores three points.

It happens to the best of them.

Mutaman
01-18-2005, 02:19 PM
Yeah but Montana won plenty of big games to compensate for one dud. Starr got murdered once on Thanksgiving by the Lions but has two super MVPs and plenty of championships to compensate for it. Favre has had plenty of duds but has a ring and three straight MVPs. And he never failed to show up like Manning did Sunday. Has Manning ever won a big game? Let him win a few playoff games on the road before we cannonize this guy.

Puffy
01-18-2005, 02:22 PM
Yeah but Montana won plenty of big games to compensate for one dud. Starr got murdered once on Thanksgiving by the Lions but has two super MVPs and plenty of championships to compensate for it. Favre has had plenty of duds but has a ring and three straight MVPs. And he never failed to show up like Manning did Sunday. Has Manning ever won a big game? Let him win a few playoff games on the road before we cannonize this guy.

He will - but he's never gonna win the big game consistently until they improve that defense. And I'm not talking about creating turnovers, I'm talking about being able to consistently stop the other team from going up and down the field.

Dan Marino lost more big games then he ever won, but I doubt many people don't consider him one of the best qb's ever.

Mutaman
01-18-2005, 03:43 PM
Manning could have been playing for the 68 cowboys or the 85 Bears on Sunday, but all the defense in the world wouldn't have helped if all he could do was put three points on the board. It wasn't the Colts defense that lost on sunday.

Puffy
01-18-2005, 03:52 PM
Manning could have been playing for the 68 cowboys or the 85 Bears on Sunday, but all the defense in the world wouldn't have helped if all he could do was put three points on the board. It wasn't the Colts defense that lost on sunday.

Really?? The Pats held the ball for close to 40 minutes. They had three drives that lasted longer than 8 minutes. Do you really think its that easy to establish an offensive rhythm against one of the greatest defensive minds ever (Belicheck backed by Romeo) when you are never on the field? How bout the six passes that were dropped by the Colts receivers? How bout the fact that he was 27 for 42 even with those 6 drops?

Football is about the team - and on this day it was the Colts Team that lost, not Peyton. I'm not sure how you pin the loss on a guy who was 27 for 41 with 6 drops and no INT's and no turnovers until the last play of the game. I guess Edge deserves responsibilty as well cause the Pats stuffed him and really made him a non-factor. How bout Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark who each fumbled AFTER catching a Manning pass? How bout Harrison who didn't put up his usual numbers?

The Colts D did nothing to win that game for them. Other players on offense didn't step up. Manning got out-thunk by Belicheck once again. The Colts lost to a better team.

MWM
01-18-2005, 05:47 PM
So did Bret Favre "forget" how to use his "big game" skill?

Johnny Footstool
01-18-2005, 07:32 PM
And he never failed to show up like Manning did Sunday.

He threw 4 INTs against the Vikings in the Wild Card game two weeks ago.

Mutaman
01-18-2005, 08:23 PM
He threw 4 INTs against the Vikings in the Wild Card game two weeks ago.


Oh, I forgot. First, Farve has a ring, three MVPs and two NFC championships. Manning can't get past the second round. Second, while the two other dominent teams of the 90's , the Cowboys and the Niners, have
fallen to the bottom of the pile as a result of the cap and parity, the Packers have remained competitive- because of Favre. Third, yes Favre played like an old man against the Vikings, and if he can't do any better than that, its time to hang it up, but at least he gave it a shot. Manning went up against a team missing three starters and he couldn't put a touchdown on the board. He didn't throw any interceptions because he didn't throw a pass over five yards. 49 td passes in one season and he can't even throw one when it counts.
Manning proved what I suspected, hes great in a dome on artificial turf, but put him in a money game outside, and he's below average. And all the excuses and apologies in the world won't change that.

Krusty
01-18-2005, 08:45 PM
As a diehard Steelers fan, I think the Steelers must not put the game in Big Ben's hands to win. Establishing their running game will be the key with short immediate passes to Hines Wards and Randle El. Controling the clock. Defensively, I think the Steelers are up a notch over the Patriots but the key will be holding Dillion under 100 yards and force Brady in long passing situations.

Will the Steelers win. In my heart yes. On paper, no. But if Saturday's luck win against the Jets didn't open their eyes, nothing will.

I expect a different Steelers team to show up Sunday against the Patriots. One that is more focused and more determined ever to win what I call the Super Bowl. Will it be enough?

That's why they call it a slobber-knocker.

KronoRed
01-19-2005, 04:00 AM
Sure they do, but I don't think they can..the Pats will do their best to make it big Bens game to win or lose, and I don't see the rooking being able to do it

RedsBaron
01-19-2005, 08:27 AM
The Jets nearly upset the Steelers last week even though their offense only produced three points, getting touchdowns from a punt return and an interception return. For the Steelers to upset the Pats this Sunday, they may need similar good fortune. The Steelers will attempt to control the ball with their ground game and will probably need some big plays from their defense and special teams to pull off the upset. Possible? Yes. Likely? No.
I'm getting the impression from news articles that the Steelers may be tight going into this game, which may not be good.

GAC
01-19-2005, 10:28 AM
I'll use a "pet phrase" a buddy of mine always uses (please mention him in your prayers - he suffered a stroke last week and was in ICU; but is doing better).....

"ARE YOU LISTENING TO ME?"

:MandJ: :MandJ: :MandJ: :MandJ: :MandJ:

Pats 16-13