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savafan
01-18-2005, 01:36 PM
The Discovery Channel is asking viewers to vote online for who they think are the five greatest Americans. http://tv.channel.aol.com/greatestamerican

It's taken me a lot of thought, and I thought it might spark some interesting discussion here on Redszone. Here's my list in no particular order:

Benjamin Franklin
Abraham Lincoln
Sojourner Truth
Billy Graham
Jackie Robinson

Really tough to name just five. I certainly could have listed FDR, Martin Luther King, George Washington, Thomas Edison, Thomas Jefferson, Ronald Reagan, Margaret Sanger, Walt Disney, Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, Bill Gates or Henry Ford. But, you can only choose five, so have at it.

Redsfaithful
01-18-2005, 01:39 PM
Billy Graham

You do know he's pretty anti-semitic right?

FDR
Mark Twain
Rosa Parks
Teddy Roosevelt
Upton Sinclair

savafan
01-18-2005, 01:40 PM
You do know he's pretty anti-semitic right?



Henry Ford was a member of the Nazi party. Wouldn't keep him off of my list. No human is perfect.

Redsfaithful
01-18-2005, 01:44 PM
No human is perfect.

Oh, I agree. But some have flaws deep enough to keep them off a Greatest Americans list, in my opinion anyway.

Redsfaithful
01-18-2005, 01:45 PM
But I don't mean to make this in any way a political discussion, I just didn't know if you know. A lot of people don't.

zombie-a-go-go
01-18-2005, 01:47 PM
The next five people to call in to Willie Cunningham's show. ;)

Danny Serafini
01-18-2005, 01:48 PM
Billy Graham? I mean, he did rule the WWF for awhile, but great American?

http://www.hammerhed.com/wrestling3/3b.jpg

Oh, wait, wrong Billy Graham!

Puffy
01-18-2005, 01:49 PM
Lincoln
FDR
Cardozo
Martin Luther King
James Madison

jmcclain19
01-18-2005, 01:56 PM
Benjamin Franklin
George Washington
Thomas Edison
Alexander Graham Bell
Jonas Salk
Orville & Wilbur Wright
Thomas Jefferson
Dwight D. Eisenhower
Henry Ford
Martin Luther King Jr
Teddy Roosevelt
FDR

Guess that's more than five, but I'd have a hard time whittling it down

Doc. Scott
01-18-2005, 02:10 PM
Anyone who puts Henry Ford on their top five list better not be complaining about the ills of today's society and its outsourcing, materialism, and unchecked corporate greed and profiteering. Just saying.

I really like the Upton Sinclair, Benjamin Franklin, and FDR suggestions. What about Frederick Douglass, or Harriet Tubman?

LvJ
01-18-2005, 02:20 PM
Billy Graham? I mean, he did rule the WWF for awhile, but great American?

http://www.hammerhed.com/wrestling3/3b.jpg

Oh, wait, wrong Billy Graham!

I was thinking the same thing. :MandJ:

Rojo
01-18-2005, 02:20 PM
Lincoln
FDR
Thomas Paine
MLK
Ida Tarbell

RedsBaron
01-18-2005, 02:36 PM
George Washington and Abraham Lincoln are such obvious choices there is the temptation to be original and not pick them. However I do not believe there were ever two more indispensable Americans.
But for Washington, the Continental Army might not have held together in the winter of 1776-77, and the American Revolution could have turned out differently, and, but for Washington, the Constitution and the presidency could also be much different-he held things together.
As for Lincoln, had someone else been our 16th president, the Confederacy may well have gained its independence from the Union, as not every president would have been as resolute as Lincoln.
I have no problem naming Washington and Lincoln as two of the five. The other three? I don't know.

bomarl1969
01-18-2005, 02:42 PM
1. George Washington-one of the reason we have a country
2. Lincoln-saved our country
3. Robert E. Lee-after Civil War he devoted his life for the youth to obtain higher education
4. General George S. Patton-tremendous factor for America winning WWII in Europe
5. John F. Kennedy-we all wouldn't be here if not for Kennedy (Cuban Missile Crisis)

Mutaman
01-18-2005, 02:45 PM
Johnny Bench?

bomarl1969
01-18-2005, 02:47 PM
Johnny Bench?

If we are talking about great American athletes then I would say

1. That Tillman dude-RIP
2. DiMaggio
3. Ted Williams

15fan
01-18-2005, 02:52 PM
Hugh Heffner.

Everyone else is competing for second.

HotCorner
01-18-2005, 02:53 PM
In particular order ...

Ben Franklin
Alexander Hamilton
MLK
FDR
Washington/Lincoln

westofyou
01-18-2005, 02:54 PM
In particular order ...

Ben Franklin
Alexander Hamilton
MLK
FDR
Washington/Lincoln

Hamilton was born in the West Indies.

westofyou
01-18-2005, 02:56 PM
Adams
Jefferson
MLK
Susan B Anthony
FDR

Mutaman
01-18-2005, 02:59 PM
You're all too focused on politics. I'll go along with what Tony Bennet said- "you judge a society by what it contributes to the rest of the world. We contributed Louis Armstrong. I guess we have something going for us."

westofyou
01-18-2005, 03:02 PM
You're all too focused on politics. I'll go along with what Tony Bennet said- "you judge a society by what it contributes to the rest of the world. We contributed Louis Armstrong. I guess we have something going for us."


Ok....

Orson Wells
Mark Twain
Thomas Edison
Babe Ruth
Tex Avery

TRF
01-18-2005, 03:02 PM
Bill Gates
Alexander Graham Bell
Al Gore

the three men most responsible for the internet's success today. ;)

Puffy
01-18-2005, 03:03 PM
Hamilton was born in the West Indies.

Yup, that is the reason I didn't put him on my list. One of the great minds of the 18th Century though.

bomarl1969
01-18-2005, 03:04 PM
You're all too focused on politics. I'll go along with what Tony Bennet said- "you judge a society by what it contributes to the rest of the world. We contributed Louis Armstrong. I guess we have something going for us."

Linda Lovelace
Ron Jeremy
Hugh Heffner
Howard Stern
Ted Nugent

RedsBaron
01-18-2005, 03:43 PM
Hamilton was born in the West Indies.
He was, but he also was an American. I don't know that I'd put him in the top five, but if you have to be born an American that technically excludes Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, et al, as they were born as British subjects.

westofyou
01-18-2005, 03:46 PM
I'm of the thinking that born on american soil precludes the British subject part.

Falls City Beer
01-18-2005, 03:49 PM
Adams
Jefferson
MLK
Susan B Anthony
FDR

Good list. Jefferson/Adams letters are extraordinary.

Mutaman
01-18-2005, 04:25 PM
Linda Lovelace
Ron Jeremy
Hugh Heffner
Howard Stern
Ted Nugent

Ted Nugent??? Sorry buddy but you just ruined my day. A big talking, flag waving hypocrite who hid under the covers when it was time to put up or shut up. Claims he's against drugs, but made plenty of money performing songs about how great it is getting high. As for his music- totally derivative area rock. What a big mouth , no talent phony. Good, now I feel better.

Redsfaithful
01-18-2005, 04:35 PM
Ted Nugent

I prefer Mike Nugent.

BuckeyeRed27
01-18-2005, 04:37 PM
Either way..he called and he wants his shirt back

bomarl1969
01-18-2005, 04:48 PM
Claims he's against drugs, but made plenty of money performing songs about how great it is getting high.

May I inquire which Uncle Ted song your are referring to?

Mutaman
01-18-2005, 05:13 PM
May I inquire which Uncle Ted song your are referring to?

Well for starters, Journey to the Center of the Mind is not about going deer hunting.

MuEconRedLeg
01-18-2005, 06:15 PM
Well for starters, Journey to the Center of the Mind is not about going deer hunting.

I thought VH1 puts that to rest.

My List:

Milton Friedman...

Crumbley
01-18-2005, 06:26 PM
Henry Ford was a member of the Nazi party. Wouldn't keep him off of my list. No human is perfect.
Sigg'd for absolute outrageousness.

RFS62
01-18-2005, 06:39 PM
Ben Franklin
Thomas Jefferson
Samuel Langhorne Clemens
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Thomas Edison

Phoenix
01-18-2005, 11:22 PM
This is an interesting question. I'll define "greatest" as having done the most to advance the ideals of the country and build the political and economic power of the country.

Abraham Lincoln
Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Edison
Ronald Reagan
Alexander Hamilton

cincinnati chili
01-19-2005, 12:06 AM
Rosa Parks


All Rosa Parks did was sit her ass down.

cincinnati chili
01-19-2005, 12:21 AM
George Washington
Martin Luther King
Thomas Edison
Mister Rogers
Susan B. Anthony

RosieRed
01-19-2005, 02:43 AM
Elizabeth Cady Stanton
Susan B. Anthony
Sojourner Truth
Margaret Sanger
Harriet Tubman

Mary Harris Jones ("Mother" Jones)
Margaret Mead
Eleanor Roosevelt
Clara Barton
Dorothea Dix

"If the first woman God ever made was strong enough to turn the world upside down all alone, these women together ought to be able to turn it back, and get it rightside up again."
-- Sojourner Truth

:)

savafan
01-19-2005, 08:04 AM
Sigg'd for absolute outrageousness.

I feel that a person can do great things (like inventing the automobile, thus making transportation much easier) and still have flaws (like the Rev. Martin Luther King who was said to have been a womanizer).

GAC
01-19-2005, 09:31 AM
You do know he's pretty anti-semitic

I have followed Billy Graham for his entire career. He is not anti-semitic. I've heard this accusation before, and it's totally unfounded.

But then, I'm waiting to hear what the "definition" of being anti-semitic is. Especially after hearing people go after Mel Gibson when he released the Passsion Of The Christ.

GAC
01-19-2005, 09:33 AM
All Rosa Parks did was sit her ass down.

I loved that movie chili.

The best part though was when Cedric yelled "(blank) JESSIE JACKSON!!" :MandJ: :MandJ:

Red Heeler
01-19-2005, 11:26 AM
I feel that a person can do great things (like inventing the automobile, thus making transportation much easier) and still have flaws (like the Rev. Martin Luther King who was said to have been a womanizer).

Henry Ford did not invent the automobile. He invented the assembly line for automobiles.

I think that some clarification of "greatest" would be needed here. Certainly Henry Ford would qualify if we are looking at the most influencial men on American society. If we are talking about the character of men, I don't think he needs to apply.

savafan
01-19-2005, 01:16 PM
Henry Ford did not invent the automobile. He invented the assembly line for automobiles.

I think that some clarification of "greatest" would be needed here. Certainly Henry Ford would qualify if we are looking at the most influencial men on American society. If we are talking about the character of men, I don't think he needs to apply.

I find that I'm apparently pretty ignorant on the subject of Henry Ford. Most of what I know was what I was taught in school, and apparently the textbook writers and teachers educate us from their opinions and viewpoints.

Puffy
01-19-2005, 01:18 PM
and apparently the textbook writers and teachers educate us from their opinions and viewpoints.

History is not the study of facts, it is the interpretation of facts.

A history professor once led off the class with those words and it has stuck with me ever since.

Redsfaithful
01-19-2005, 01:27 PM
I have followed Billy Graham for his entire career. He is not anti-semitic. I've heard this accusation before, and it's totally unfounded.

But then, I'm waiting to hear what the "definition" of being anti-semitic is. Especially after hearing people go after Mel Gibson when he released the Passsion Of The Christ.

It was thirty years ago, so maybe it doesn't apply anymore. /shrug I'm certainly not going to argue about it, becaue I don't really care. He seems like a decent guy apart from this.

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASUS_12/4048_12.asp


We were shocked to learn that a man of the cloth and stature of the Rev. Billy Graham held anti-Semitic views and freely shared them with President Richard Nixon, as revealed on the just released Nixon tapes. Rev. Graham's assertion that Jews had a "stranglehold" on the country and that a second Nixon Administration "might be able to do something," is chilling and frightening, even today, 30 years after the statements were made.

RedsBaron
01-19-2005, 01:30 PM
I have followed Billy Graham for his entire career. He is not anti-semitic. I've heard this accusation before, and it's totally unfounded.

But then, I'm waiting to hear what the "definition" of being anti-semitic is. Especially after hearing people go after Mel Gibson when he released the Passsion Of The Christ.
It's my understanding that Graham was recorded making at best some insensitive comments about Jews on one of the tape recordings made in the Nixon oval office. From what I've heard was on the tape, I can offer no excuse for his comments, but, unless there is some other evidence, it is unfair IMO to judge a person's entire life by an isolated comment.

Roy Tucker
01-19-2005, 02:13 PM
My list is pretty boring.

George Washington
Abraham Lincoln
Thomas Jefferson
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Martin Luther King Jr.

For me, the first 2 were automatic. Jefferson was the architect of our country (and I'd like to add John Adams here too). FDR oversaw the country pulling out of the Depression and WWII. The #5 slot I thought about a long time but decided on King. There were about 20 others that I wanted to add.

Chip R
01-19-2005, 02:52 PM
You do know he's pretty anti-semitic right?
Well, they are the competition. ;)

GAC
01-19-2005, 05:29 PM
It's my understanding that Graham was recorded making at best some insensitive comments about Jews on one of the tape recordings made in the Nixon oval office. From what I've heard was on the tape, I can offer no excuse for his comments, but, unless there is some other evidence, it is unfair IMO to judge a person's entire life by an isolated comment.

That was my point too RB. I should have been more clear before.

I've never heard about those tapes until now. That is surprising. But I'm not gonna make a generalized judgment of a man, whom I have followed and read many of his books and study guides where he never made any statements that could be construed as anti-semitic, but even emphasized the importance of the Jewish people and culture on the Christian faith, and that the Jews are considered God's "chosen" people from whom our Savior came.

Ravenlord
01-19-2005, 05:58 PM
Lincoln
T. Roosevelt
Washington
King, Jr.
Sam Colt (invented the assembly line and revolver)

Hap
01-19-2005, 06:40 PM
Theodore Roosevelt (cleaned up dirty politics, thereby saving the country)

Martin Luther King (his death was the worst thing that ever happened to white people)

George Carlin (he suffered greatly for what he believed in)

Ted Williams (gave up his best years for what he believed in)

Joe Nuxhall (an endless library of inspiring stories)

savafan
06-06-2005, 10:04 AM
Well, after all of the nominations were counted, the Discovery Channel is having another vote to pare this list down to 5. I gotta question Oprah Winfrey, Bill Clinton and Lance Armstrong on this list though...

Muhummad Ali
Lance Armstrong
Neil Armstrong
George W Bush
Bill Clinton
Walt Disney
Thomas Edison
Albert Einstein
Henry Ford
Ben Franklin
Bill Gates
Billy Graham
Bob Hope
Thomas Jefferson
JFK
Martin Luther King
Abe Lincoln
Rosa Parks
Elvis Presley
Ronald Reagan
Eleanor Roosevelt
FDR
George Washington
Oprah Winfrey
The Wright Brothers

savafan
06-06-2005, 10:05 AM
I also don't think I'd include George W. Bush among the top 25 Americans either. At least not yet.

paintmered
06-06-2005, 10:15 AM
The Wright Brothers

Orville and Wilbur count as one person? :laugh:

BillyBeaneFan
06-06-2005, 10:53 AM
Muhummad Ali
Lance Armstrong
Neil Armstrong
George W Bush
Bill Clinton
Walt Disney
Billy Graham
Bob Hope
Eleanor Roosevelt
Oprah Winfrey

None of these people should be considered. I don't really think athletes should be included...sorry Lance, sorry Muhammad. Neil Armstrong...someone else could have taken that first step just as easily. GWB and Clinton...too soon to tell. Walt Disney? Give me a break...he made cartoons. Billy Graham? Talk about throwing a bone to the fundamentalists. Bob Hope? Funny guy but not exactly a symbol of America. Eleanor Roosevelt? President's wife. Wow. And Oprah? Come on.

ochre
06-06-2005, 10:54 AM
Tecumseh
Sitting Bull
Chief John Ross
Rube Foster
Richard Feynman

Mutaman
06-06-2005, 11:05 AM
Hank Williams doesn't even get a mention? A pretty sad comment on this country's educational system.

Rojo
06-06-2005, 03:50 PM
They should've just excluded living person's.

ochre
06-06-2005, 04:15 PM
They should've just excluded living person's.
My list is all dead.

RBA
06-06-2005, 09:16 PM
Archeologist Henry Jones, Jr
Astronaut Steve Austin
Inventor Dr. Emmett Brown
Union Organizer Norma Rae Webster
Inspector Harry Callahan

Falls City Beer
06-06-2005, 09:19 PM
http://www.the11thhour.com/archives/042000/features/images/superhero_tgah.jpg

Crash Davis
06-07-2005, 01:12 PM
Well, after all of the nominations were counted, the Discovery Channel is having another vote to pare this list down to 5. I gotta question Oprah Winfrey, Bill Clinton and Lance Armstrong on this list though...

Muhummad Ali
Lance Armstrong
Neil Armstrong
George W Bush
Bill Clinton
Walt Disney
Thomas Edison
Albert Einstein
Henry Ford
Ben Franklin
Bill Gates
Billy Graham
Bob Hope
Thomas Jefferson
JFK
Martin Luther King
Abe Lincoln
Rosa Parks
Elvis Presley
Ronald Reagan
Eleanor Roosevelt
FDR
George Washington
Oprah Winfrey
The Wright Brothers

Wow! Reagan, Clinton, Bush, Oprah, Lance Armstrong, Bob Hope & Billy Graham? But no Thomas Paine.

dsmith421
06-07-2005, 01:28 PM
Eleanor Roosevelt? President's wife. Wow.

Eleanor Roosevelt was a driving force behind the establishment of the United Nations and took a lead role in drafting the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, one of the most important documents in international law and THE statement of the global community on the dignity of every man and woman. Dismissing her as simply 'President's wife' is totally unfair.

westofyou
06-07-2005, 01:46 PM
http://www.the11thhour.com/archives/042000/features/images/superhero_tgah.jpg

Look at whatís happened to me,
I canít believe it myself.
Suddenly Iím up on top of the world,
It shouldíve been somebody else.

gonelong
06-07-2005, 01:57 PM
Look at whatís happened to me,
I canít believe it myself.
Suddenly Iím up on top of the world,
It shouldíve been somebody else.

Believe it or not, I'm walking on air.
I never thought I could feel so free eee eee.
Flying away on a wing and a prayer.
Who could it beeee?
Believe it or not it's just me.

GL