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BrooklynRedz
12-21-2004, 01:15 PM
signed by Reds to one-year deal. Details coming.

BRM
12-21-2004, 01:16 PM
I take it this ends the Kearns to 3B experiment.

Tony Cloninger
12-21-2004, 01:18 PM
Now Kearns and WMP can fight it out for CF......with plenty of playing time for both...if/when? Griffey gets injured.

traderumor
12-21-2004, 01:18 PM
signed by Reds to one-year deal. Details coming.Dude, you are going to have to change your name to "Scoop." Much obliged for the early heads up on deals here lately.
:thumbup:

Jpup
12-21-2004, 01:18 PM
Very nice.
\
i thought it said trade..oops.

Raisor
12-21-2004, 01:19 PM
Horrible signing, at any cost (though now Krusty's head will be even bigger) :thumbup:

There's no reason to bring Randa in as long as Freel is on the roster.

OldXOhio
12-21-2004, 01:19 PM
I take it this ends the Kearns to 3B experiment.

Good. Look forward to AK in rf for many years to come.

westofyou
12-21-2004, 01:21 PM
I take it this ends the Kearns to 3B experiment.

That folly was over the day after instructional league.

traderumor
12-21-2004, 01:22 PM
Very nice. Let's just see who they gave up.
He's a free agent.

OldXOhio
12-21-2004, 01:22 PM
Yet another mid-30 something added to the team. Didn't see those coming.

BRM
12-21-2004, 01:23 PM
Good. Look forward to AK in rf for many years to come.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of Kearns moving back to RF. Does this make Pena the 4th OF? I really doubt Griffey will be on the bench if he's healthy.

traderumor
12-21-2004, 01:23 PM
Horrible signing, at any cost (though now Krusty's head will be even bigger) :thumbup:

There's no reason to bring Randa in as long as Freel is on the roster.

But if you have someone ready to overpay in a deal including Freel...at least that would be my next move. Although Freel coming off the bench as the fifth outfielder, backup infielder isn't bad.

westofyou
12-21-2004, 01:23 PM
Horrible signing, at any cost (though now Krusty's head will be even bigger) :thumbup:

There's no reason to bring Randa in as long as Freel is on the roster.

Well one thing is for sure the Reds coaches HATE Freel at third, he tends to look at the ball before he throws it and that drives them crazy.


GAMES G A E DP PCT
1 Juan Castro 78 75 5 6 .958
2 Ryan Freel 56 107 12 11 .925
3 Brandon Larson 35 50 5 3 .937
4 Tim Hummel 32 47 4 5 .941
5 Felipe Lopez 24 50 5 2 .937

Krusty
12-21-2004, 01:23 PM
A little man love goes a long way. :D

Anyways, Randa adds depth to this club. I wouldn't give up on the Kearns experiment but you have to wonder with this signing, if Kearns might be going in a deal for a starting pitcher?

BrooklynRedz
12-21-2004, 01:24 PM
To be honest, I kinda expect this signing to result in a deal of Kearns to LA. Don't know anything, haven't heard anything...but the timing of this deal is somewhat ominous considering everything I've heard out of LA concerning the "mega-deal." DePodesta is looking to flip Vasquez for a young cheap bat and something tells me the Reds might very well be his dancing partner.

OldXOhio
12-21-2004, 01:25 PM
Is Randa still considered slick fielding?

Jpup
12-21-2004, 01:25 PM
So does this mean that something is in the works for one of our OFs? Griffey to KC? I read the other day that they wanted an impact player.

I know it isn't going to happen, but I can dream can't I?

Krusty
12-21-2004, 01:25 PM
Nah, J.D. Drew might be signed by the Dodgers by the end of the day. LaLa Land and Drew were made for each other.

Jpup
12-21-2004, 01:25 PM
To be honest, I kinda expect this signing to result in a deal of Kearns to LA. Don't know anything, haven't heard anything...but the timing of this deal is somewhat ominous considering everything I've heard out of LA concerning the "mega-deal." DePodesta is looking to flip Vasquez for a young cheap bat and something tells me the Reds might very well be his dancing partner.

How about Willy Mo instead?

westofyou
12-21-2004, 01:26 PM
Is Randa still considered slick fielding?



GAMES G A E DP PCT
1 Joe Randa 119 241 11 20 .967
2 Desi Relaford 42 77 8 5 .927
3 Jose Bautista 11 17 1 2 .957

OldXOhio
12-21-2004, 01:26 PM
Does this make Pena the 4th OF?

At least on opening day I believe it does.

iammrred
12-21-2004, 01:27 PM
Who's to say Randa wasn't signed for the bench and Kearns is still the third baseman?

traderumor
12-21-2004, 01:27 PM
I'd say it definately bodes for another shoe to drop. Would we like a Kearns for Vazquez deal? I'd like to have another player if that's a deal.

westofyou
12-21-2004, 01:27 PM
Who's to say Randa wasn't signed for the bench and Kearns is still the third baseman?

I'll say it.

Kearns doesn't play third ever is my prediction.

traderumor
12-21-2004, 01:28 PM
Who's to say Randa wasn't signed for the bench and Kearns is still the third baseman?
The Reds FO can make you scratch your head at times, but that's even too far of a reach for them.

Krusty
12-21-2004, 01:28 PM
Hey, I offered Kearns to Atlanta for LHP Horacio Ramirez on another board and they like the deal:


http://mb3.scout.com/fatlantabravesfrm1.showMessageRange?topicID=12421. topic&start=1&stop=20

westofyou
12-21-2004, 01:29 PM
Kearns is at the lowpoint of his value, a smart team holds him.

Note I said a "smart" team.

Raisor
12-21-2004, 01:29 PM
Randa's OBP/SLG the last three years.

341/426
348/452
343/408

OldXOhio
12-21-2004, 01:31 PM
hey WOY, how do Randa's 2004 numbers compare with other 3B with at least 300 TC?

Falls City Beer
12-21-2004, 01:31 PM
Hey, I offered Kearns to Atlanta for LHP Horacio Ramirez on another board and they like the deal:


http://mb3.scout.com/fatlantabravesfrm1.showMessageRange?topicID=12421. topic&start=1&stop=20

Good lord, if I'm Atlanta I'm slobbering over that deal.

traderumor
12-21-2004, 01:31 PM
Randa's OBP/SLG the last three years.

341/426
348/452
343/408

Don't you think his numbers won't be bad for a #7 hitter though? Don't know much about Joe, what kind of glove/range does he have?

OldXOhio
12-21-2004, 01:32 PM
Who's the poster on here who used to have the tag line "Trading Griffey Jr won't help"? Can that be revised to use Austin Kearns instead?

Falls City Beer
12-21-2004, 01:33 PM
Don't you think his numbers won't be bad for a #7 hitter though? Don't know much about Joe, what kind of glove/range does he have?

He's Aaron Boone lite.

Whatever, it's depth, I suppose.

And more important, it's only one year.

Puffy
12-21-2004, 01:33 PM
I wouldn't give up on the Kearns experiment but you have to wonder with this signing, if Kearns might be going in a deal for a starting pitcher?

Ding, ding, ding - thats what I think........

Raisor
12-21-2004, 01:36 PM
Don't you think his numbers won't be bad for a #7 hitter though? Don't know much about Joe, what kind of glove/range does he have?


Thing is, I'd rather have Freel in the leadoff spot then Randa in the 7-spot.

Without Freel on top, Lopez gets moved to the 2-slot, which is a Bad Idea.

Much rather have

Freel
Jiminez
Dunn
JR
Casey
Kearns
LaRue
Lopez

Then
Jiminez
Lopez
Dunn
JR
Casey
Kearns
Randa
LaRue

(Or however the middle four go)

I admit that it probably wouldn't make TOO much difference, but every run matters...

Kc61
12-21-2004, 01:36 PM
Randa is the perfect stopgap third baseman as we wait for Encarnacion. But he is a starting player who gets paid a decent wage. I don't see him on the bench.

So which starting outfielder is getting traded?

Krusty
12-21-2004, 01:37 PM
Seems like that Randy Johnson mega deal is still simmering because of behind the scenes action. Now one has to wonder if the Reds are a player?

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20041221&content_id=924647&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp

Now how boring is Dan O'Brien?

westofyou
12-21-2004, 01:38 PM
Here's what the Reds got from their 3rd baseman last year.





OBA SLG OPS EBH AVG RC/G

.330 .359 .689 74 .254 4.22

Raisor
12-21-2004, 01:39 PM
Now how boring is Dan O'Brien?


I'm not that excited about what he's done, which is bring in a bunch of vets to fill out the 25-man roster. Stop gap moves which don't do much for the long term. Really just looks like he's trying for 4th place to me.

letsgojunior
12-21-2004, 01:40 PM
To be honest, I kinda expect this signing to result in a deal of Kearns to LA. Don't know anything, haven't heard anything...but the timing of this deal is somewhat ominous considering everything I've heard out of LA concerning the "mega-deal." DePodesta is looking to flip Vasquez for a young cheap bat and something tells me the Reds might very well be his dancing partner.

Please no :thumbdown

osuceltic
12-21-2004, 01:40 PM
To be honest, I kinda expect this signing to result in a deal of Kearns to LA. Don't know anything, haven't heard anything...but the timing of this deal is somewhat ominous considering everything I've heard out of LA concerning the "mega-deal." DePodesta is looking to flip Vasquez for a young cheap bat and something tells me the Reds might very well be his dancing partner.

This was exactly what I was thinking. Exactly. What is Vazquez's contract status? How many years would the Reds have him? I know he struggled at times in NY, but I'd do it -- pending info on the contract. Yes, you're selling Kearns low, but you're also buying Vazquez low.

Anyway, I like the Randa signing -- no, he isn't a long-term answer, but he's a solid defender (something desperately needed on this team), mediocre bat (at best), solid veteran guy and hopefully a bridge to EE. I wasn't opposed at all to trying Kearns at third -- why not think outside the box? -- but I like the idea of trading him for a front-line starter even better.

Vazquez, Wilson, Ortiz isn't exactly the Big Three, but it could be a significant upgrade. If you're going to take a chance on a pitcher bouncing back, I like that pitcher to be coming from the AL to the NL. Those AL lineups can be brutal, and draining mentally. Give a guy a couple of outs at the bottom of these NL lineups and things don't look quite so difficult.

Anyway, this is a lot of speculation about something that hasn't happened, but there are some dots there to be connected ...

Falls City Beer
12-21-2004, 01:41 PM
Now how boring is Dan O'Brien?

I bet he can't do "The Worm."

OldXOhio
12-21-2004, 01:42 PM
DePodesta is looking to flip Vasquez for a young cheap bat and something tells me the Reds might very well be his dancing partner.

Based on what? Considering OB's history of tweener-type moves, I'm curious what makes you think he'd pull off a blockbuster like that?

letsgojunior
12-21-2004, 01:43 PM
Kearns is at the lowpoint of his value, a smart team holds him.

Note I said a "smart" team.

Bingo... it would be the equivalent of selling a good stock with a huge upside while it was at its lowest value in years.

Where's DanO's quote from the other week about Kearns being the starting 3B come opening day? This guy talks in circles more than anyone I've seen.

johngalt
12-21-2004, 01:44 PM
Based on what? Considering OB's history of tweener-type moves, I'm curious what makes you think he'd pull off a blockbuster like that?

The Reds have already had trade discussions in the past about Vazquez and Oakland's Big Three, so this wouldn't be new territory.

Remember, you don't always hear about deals that almost get done.

Jpup
12-21-2004, 01:46 PM
This could also be a sign and trade. LA needs a 3rd baseman as bad as we do. I doubt it, but you never know. LA just signed Jose Valetin, but I don't think they want him to be their answer at 3rd.

I can't envision Austin Kearns being traded straight up for Javier Vasquez. That would be absolutely stupid IMO. Now, if we get Ishii, Vasquez, and a prospect, I would like that.

Falls City Beer
12-21-2004, 01:47 PM
Remember, you don't always hear about deals that almost get done.

Right. And it's usually because someone gets cold feet (DanO?) :buttkick:

OldXOhio
12-21-2004, 01:47 PM
The Reds have already had trade discussions in the past about Vazquez and Oakland's Big Three, so this wouldn't be new territory.

Remember, you don't always hear about deals that almost get done.

True, but anyone can tinker in proposals. OB stepping up and pulling the trigger on a deal of this nature is unchartered territory.

Jpup
12-21-2004, 01:47 PM
Right. And it's usually because someone gets cold feet (DanO?) :buttkick:

I hope his feet are freezing. It is the first day of winter. :)

johngalt
12-21-2004, 01:48 PM
True, but anyone can tinker in proposals. OB stepping up and pulling the trigger on a deal of this nature is unchartered territory.

You're under the assumption that it was DanO who backed off the trigger. That wasn't the case in the possible deal(s) with Oakland.

LvJ
12-21-2004, 01:49 PM
What exactly is the source of this?

Anyways, I like it. Good stop gap for Edwin. Kearns in RF is the best place for him.

Red Leader
12-21-2004, 01:49 PM
I can't envision Austin Kearns being traded straight up for Javier Vasquez. That would be absolutely stupid IMO. Now, if we get Ishii, Vasquez, and a prospect, I would like that.

More than likely, the Reds are the ones that are going to have to kick in something extra on their side in a Kearns for Vazquez deal because you know they'll ask for cash to be kicked in on the LA side. That means the Reds will have to add players of value (Freel?) to get that big chunk o' cash they want in return.

OldXOhio
12-21-2004, 01:52 PM
You're under the assumption that it was DanO who backed off the trigger. That wasn't the case in the possible deal(s) with Oakland.

You're right in that I don't know what all has gone down, but I'm working under the premise that OB has been asking for a lot in return.....a "no brainer" type of arrangement that would offer little to question.

Johnny Footstool
12-21-2004, 02:11 PM
Still no source for this rumor?

traderumor
12-21-2004, 02:14 PM
brooklynredz, who fed us the ortiz deal. The man's got connections, Johnny.

pedro
12-21-2004, 02:15 PM
Still no source for this rumor?


{At the request of this person: CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION}

RedsFanBrooklyn
12-21-2004, 02:15 PM
Much as the name might seem the same, I can back up BRedz. He's on the money here.

MWM
12-21-2004, 02:17 PM
:all_cohol :all_cohol :all_cohol

Raisor
12-21-2004, 02:19 PM
:all_cohol :all_cohol :all_cohol


"You should listen to this man, he's Pre-Med."

johngalt
12-21-2004, 02:20 PM
Wait.....is Todd Lorenz from Brooklyn? :)

zombie-a-go-go
12-21-2004, 02:21 PM
This signing sucks.

We'd better be flipping some pieces for an SP.

RedsFanBrooklyn
12-21-2004, 02:22 PM
Wait.....is Todd Lorenz from Brooklyn? :)


Heh.

No. But he does deserve a little more credit. He works hard and does his best to stay on top of stuff. He may not be critical the way an independent beat writer might be able to be, but he doesn't make anything up either.

LvJ
12-21-2004, 02:23 PM
CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION

Oh wow. I didn't know that. Awesome job, and thanks BLR!

johngalt
12-21-2004, 02:24 PM
Heh.

No. But he does deserve a little more credit. He works hard and does his best to stay on top of stuff. He may not be critical the way an independent beat writer might be able to be, but he doesn't make anything up either.

My quibble with Lorenz is more about MLB.com in general. Their editing is horrendous and their facts are off a lot of times as well. The individual reporter is at fault a lot, but it's the editing that's bad too.

RedsFanBrooklyn
12-21-2004, 02:26 PM
My quibble with Lorenz is more about MLB.com in general. Their editing is horrendous and their facts are off a lot of times as well. The individual reporter is at fault a lot, but it's the editing that's bad too.


Well, every man is entitled to his opinion. Just be thankful you aren't a Phillies or Indians fan. It could be much much worse, trust me.

pedro
12-21-2004, 02:27 PM
this is ok signing for one year. randa IS an upgrade over 3rd basemen of last year and I'm sceptical of Freel's ability field the position consistently. Another thing is I think Freel is going to be needed in center field this year.

Raisor
12-21-2004, 02:30 PM
Another thing is I think Freel is going to be needed in center field this year.


If Pena and Kearns are on the roster this year, then they BOTH have to get 600+ PA's. Have. To.

stevekun
12-21-2004, 02:32 PM
I guess I am the only one who likes this signing. I have seen Randa play here in KC and he is solid. Now lets just see the movement to make room...thats what I am interested in

writerdan33
12-21-2004, 02:33 PM
Just a thought, but this could be just an insurance policy heading into spring training in case Kearns doesn't work out at third. If he does, there's a point during the spring where they could cut Randa loose without taking the full hit on his salary.

Possibility?

traderumor
12-21-2004, 02:35 PM
Just a thought, but this could be just an insurance policy heading into spring training in case Kearns doesn't work out at third. If he does, there's a point during the spring where they could cut Randa loose without taking the full hit on his salary.

Possibility?I would think Randa had more options than that and likely got some PT assurances before going with Cincy

MWM
12-21-2004, 02:36 PM
One of the reasons I don't like these kinds of signings is that if he puts up a decent month or two, or is viewed as a good "clubhouse guy" or puts up a decent batting average, which he usually does, or has a few key RBIs, people will be clamoring for the FO to resign the guy. And John Allen will do it if he thinks the fans want it.

One year signings are good in theory, but with the Reds FO it will likely turn into another Jimmy Haynes or Paul Wilson.


It's like my kids when they sy "just five more minutes, dad." Well, it's never just five more minutes. And with the Reds, it's not likely to be just one year.

max venable
12-21-2004, 02:36 PM
Randa is the perfect stopgap third baseman as we wait for Encarnacion. But he is a starting player who gets paid a decent wage.

Funny, I thought Aaron Boone would have been a better choice. He was available.

Who would you all rather have at 3B for next couple years: Randa or Boone?

PressBox
12-21-2004, 02:37 PM
so when is this going to be announced?

Has anyone been listening to WLW?

BigRed75
12-21-2004, 02:38 PM
Is it possible that Randa was signed to be a bench player? Is so, I think it's a great deal...depending on the money of course.

Raisor
12-21-2004, 02:39 PM
. If he does, there's a point during the spring where they could cut Randa loose without taking the full hit on his salary.

Possibility?


Nope,

Assuming Randa has been signed, unless it's a non-guarenteed contract (and there's no way Randa would be signing a non-guarenteed contract on Dec 21), then the Reds will have to pay his whole contract even if he's released.

pedro
12-21-2004, 02:39 PM
If Pena and Kearns are on the roster this year, then they BOTH have to get 600+ PA's. Have. To.

I agree about Kearns but right now I figure he's slotted in RF everyday.

I'm still not sure I would want to give WMP 600 ab's this year. The dude had a .289 OBP against righties. I think there are time when he should sit. I'd give him 450-500 and more if he improves.

Now, Griffey can't play center anymore, even though he might, and WMP no great shakes out there either. So who's our late inning defensive replacement in center. Right now my thinking is Freel.

M2
12-21-2004, 02:40 PM
If this results in DanO flipping Kearns for Javy Vazquez (and I assume a whole bunch of money to help pay for Vazquez), then it gets a big thumbs up from me.

Otherwise it's nice to see this whole Kearns to 3B odyssey put to rest. Now about finding room on the bench for Jr. if none of the other OFs leave in a trade ...

pedro
12-21-2004, 02:41 PM
Funny, I thought Aaron Boone would have been a better choice. He was available.

Who would you all rather have at 3B for next couple years: Randa or Boone?

boone. but I doubt he wants to come back here. dad getting fired and all.

flyer85
12-21-2004, 02:41 PM
I take it this ends the Kearns to 3B experiment.

He could be just a 1b/3b backup.

Could also mean the team will try to trade DJ.

westofyou
12-21-2004, 02:42 PM
Funny, I thought Aaron Boone would have been a better choice. He was available.

Who would you all rather have at 3B for next couple years: Randa or Boone?


"couple of years?"

Neither, I'll also venture that Boone would not have signed a 1 year deal and that Randa didn't get as much as Boone will get this year.

If Randa tanks then there is Freel and Lopez to slide in there.

Raisor
12-21-2004, 02:44 PM
I agree about Kearns but right now I figure he's slotted in RF everyday.

I'm still not sure I would want to give WMP 600 ab's this year. The dude had a .289 OBP against righties. I think there are time when he should sit. I'd give him 450-500 and more if he improves.

l.


Since Pena HAS to be on the roster (unless traded) he HAS to get PA's. He's averaged just 270 TPA the last two years, and there's no way he's going to develop into anything that way.

I'm still in favor of trading him..

Falls City Beer
12-21-2004, 02:49 PM
Since Pena HAS to be on the roster (unless traded) he HAS to get PA's. He's averaged just 270 TPA the last two years, and there's no way he's going to develop into anything that way.

I'm still in favor of trading him..

Trading him would be the ideal thing--but he alone won't fetch real pitching help.

And I'm not sure he's going to "develop" into anything more than what we saw last year--so a platoon wouldn't be the end of the world.

I'm hoping these are signals that DanO knows that WMP isn't going to be all that great--and can flip him for something.

pedro
12-21-2004, 02:51 PM
Since Pena HAS to be on the roster (unless traded) he HAS to get PA's. He's averaged just 270 TPA the last two years, and there's no way he's going to develop into anything that way.

I'm still in favor of trading him..

It does look like the Reds are still angling to trade an outfielder, especially with talk of signing Dustan Mohr. I'd rather trade WMP than AK, although trading AK may be easiest and make most sense allowing Reds to move griffey to RF.

NC Reds
12-21-2004, 02:55 PM
KEEP KEARNS!!!!!!!!!!! I think he will bounce back big time in 2005. Plus Griffey will spend half of the season on the DL.

I don't trust DanO's judgment much. :(

RedTeamGo!
12-21-2004, 02:56 PM
I like this signing...it is a vast improvement over Brandon Larson, and everyone has a boner for Freel, but he hasnt succeeded as a starter at one position for an entire year yet...he could just as easily flop as do well. Joe Randa is a proven veteran (and one of my favorites...he is always smiling).

M2
12-21-2004, 02:56 PM
There is another possibility here. Maybe Jr.'s rehab isn't going well and the Reds are planning for life without him.

In a similar vein, Kearns had an orthopedist visit last week. Maybe that turned up something which gave the team cause for alarm.

traderumor
12-21-2004, 02:59 PM
There is another possibility here. Maybe Jr.'s rehab isn't going well and the Reds are planning for life without him.

In a similar vein, Kearns had an orthopedist visit last week. Maybe that turned up something which gave the team cause for alarm.
That certainly would be a double edged sword, Jr. that is.

It would be very sad if he was forced to retire because of the injuries. I have grown to respect Jr. in his handling of being the reluctant superstar and in handling the injuries.

markymark69
12-21-2004, 02:59 PM
I just found the site today, great to be a part of it. Now to my post. If you look at the roster as its stands, and the fact that no position players (with the possible exception of Zapp) in the minors are major league ready, they have 23 players (12 pitchers, 8 starters, 3 on the bench). They have to sign somebody. Randa is a nice bridge to Encarnacion, who is not that far away, IMO. Speculation about a trade I think is valid, but with all the injury problems we've had in the past few years, it is really a good idea to ship off capable outfielders. If we could get Vazquez or someone of his ilk? Then I say do it. If not, AK is probably someone we better hold on to.

Redmachine2003
12-21-2004, 03:00 PM
Every thinks if something goes down it is AK but what if it turns out to be Dunn. Maybe Dunn's Agent told the Reds he would not sign a long term deal and is asking for the moon in Arb.

REDREAD
12-21-2004, 03:00 PM
there's a point during the spring where they could cut Randa loose without taking the full hit on his salary.

Possibility?

I think that rule is only for arbitration contracts. The free agent contracts are rock solid.. Otherwise, Albert Belle, etc would've been cut long before their deals were up.

flyer85
12-21-2004, 03:01 PM
To be honest, I kinda expect this signing to result in a deal of Kearns to LA. Don't know anything, haven't heard anything...but the timing of this deal is somewhat ominous considering everything I've heard out of LA concerning the "mega-deal." DePodesta is looking to flip Vasquez for a young cheap bat and something tells me the Reds might very well be his dancing partner.

Kearns and Jr for Vazquez?

M2
12-21-2004, 03:02 PM
Every thinks if something goes down it is AK but what if it turns out to be Dunn. Maybe Dunn's Agent told the Reds he would not sign a long term deal and is asking for the moon in Arb.

Could be that too.

reds77
12-21-2004, 03:03 PM
I see a lot of talk about Vazquez from LA. Yes, he is an established pitcher, but I'd personally rather see the Reds go after Edwin Jackson. Aren't the rumors pretty much the Dodgers insist on Dunn where the Reds offered Kearns?

I'm pleased with the Randa signing. Should be interesting to see what happens with our 4 OFs (Assuming Griffey is healthy...big assumption I know).

CougarQuest
12-21-2004, 03:03 PM
Is this a confirmed signing BrooklynReds? If so, I'll sticky it.
Do we have the $$$ of the contract?

pedro
12-21-2004, 03:03 PM
I just found the site today, great to be a part of it. Now to my post. If you look at the roster as its stands, and the fact that no position players (with the possible exception of Zapp) in the minors are major league ready, they have 23 players (12 pitchers, 8 starters, 3 on the bench). They have to sign somebody. Randa is a nice bridge to Encarnacion, who is not that far away, IMO. Speculation about a trade I think is valid, but with all the injury problems we've had in the past few years, it is really a good idea to ship off capable outfielders. If we could get Vazquez or someone of his ilk? Then I say do it. If not, AK is probably someone we better hold on to.


welcome!

If we trade an outfielder for a pitcher I kind of hope it's not Vasquez, I just have this feeling that his arm is going to blow up.

REDREAD
12-21-2004, 03:04 PM
Any move that kills the Kearns to 3b experiment is a good move in my opinion.

I'm not exactly excited about Randa, but signing a 3b was a good idea. Looks like DanO learned from commiting to Larson last year.

So now we know, this Kearns-to-3b was just a big smoke screen so the Reds could sneak in and grab Randa :MandJ: :MandJ: :MandJ: Stealth Dan strikes again :MandJ: :MandJ: (Of course, I am joking.. The Reds were serious about trying it. DanO must've finally realized what a disaster that was going to be.)

M2
12-21-2004, 03:04 PM
Kearns and Jr for Vazquez?

Nifty idea. Would the Reds do it? Might have a lot to do with how much Jr. really costs the Reds on an annual basis.

pedro
12-21-2004, 03:07 PM
Nifty idea. Would the Reds do it? Might have a lot to do with how much Jr. really costs the Reds on an annual basis.

I don't like the idea of trading kearns just to dump KG and get a pitcher who is expensive and possibly hurt.

REDREAD
12-21-2004, 03:07 PM
Every thinks if something goes down it is AK but what if it turns out to be Dunn. Maybe Dunn's Agent told the Reds he would not sign a long term deal and is asking for the moon in Arb.

Good theory..

Here's another one.. Remember Kearns saying that he was willing to move to 3b to keep CASEY around? I wonder if Casey will get moved?

lollipopcurve
12-21-2004, 03:08 PM
Fearful. Very fearful. I think Kearns or Dunn is on the way to LA for pitching prospects. If so, we must get at least 2, and I would prefer Billingsley and Jackson. I think Kearns could bring two top prospects, Dunn 3. Do not be surprised if Eric Duncan, about to be acquired by LA from the Yanks, gets rerouted to the Reds. From what I read, our scouts really liked him prior to the draft last year.

BrooklynRedz
12-21-2004, 03:08 PM
Again, I have absolutely zero knowledge of anything beyond this Randa signing, but I'm just sitting here putting 2 and 2 together. Can't go into detail, and maybe everything will pass, but the stars are pointing to something in addition. That said, there's nothing to make me suspect anyone would take on Jr.

Now, Kearns and LaRue, that's another matter entirely. LA needs a catcher, and even with the prospect they'll receive from NYY, he's not going to be ready this year. Do they really go into Opening Day with Ross and Martin?

Red Leader
12-21-2004, 03:10 PM
DanO's going crrrrraaaazzzy! :MandJ:

Matt700wlw
12-21-2004, 03:11 PM
Press conf. at 3:30...

...and Jiminez signed to avoid arbitration


More to follow

letsgojunior
12-21-2004, 03:13 PM
I don't like any deal for Vazquez at all. He's got the following left on his contract:

2005 - 10.5 M
2006 - 11.5 M
2007 - 12.5 M

He also got a 2 M signing bonus that I'm not sure has been paid yet. That's a big committment in terms of finances and players for a guy who posted a 4.91 ERA, 1.29 WHIP, 755 OPSA, and gave up 33 homers last year. Those numbers are hardly worth $5 M, let alone $10. Now you could argue that his actual numbers would be closer to what he put up in 2001 and 2003, but that's a pretty big gamble when you consider that you're allotting roughly 25% of your payroll to this guy for the next three years (and a payroll that's already heavily tied up in overpriced underperformers), and that you'd be giving up your best all-around player when he's at his all-time low point in terms of value.

The guys to target are the younger, cheaper starters with upside, not the guys who are due 35.5 M on an LTC when you're talking a team with a *very* limited budget (and one that's very top heavy).

traderumor
12-21-2004, 03:13 PM
I'm almost giddy with excitement...well as giddy as accountants get :D

Marty and Joe
12-21-2004, 03:13 PM
:angry: ...now I have to wait another hour and 15 minutes? :p:

Red Leader
12-21-2004, 03:15 PM
I don't even know who plays for the Reds anymore :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :MandJ: :MandJ:

zombie-a-go-go
12-21-2004, 03:18 PM
I only take Vasquez on if LA takes Griffey.

Red Leader
12-21-2004, 03:19 PM
I only take Vasquez on if LA takes Griffey.

I would be more than willing to do that. I'd even give them Dane Sarhina! :MandJ:

traderumor
12-21-2004, 03:19 PM
A statement that will live in infamy


"As we move to the holidays, we've got discussions with several people and we're hopeful that we can continue to add to our talent base," said O'Brien. "But it's very difficult to predict the outcome, so what you in essence have is, you have Plan A, then the fallback position of Plan B, then Plan C and so on, and they're all sort of going at the same time in various stages."

Could Plan A, B, and C culminate in the procurement of a third baseman, also known as the "hot corner" (using fingers to make quote marks), thus setting wheels in motion for Plan B to come to fruition, which set off a thermonuclear reaction that allowed Plan C to climax?

zombie-a-go-go
12-21-2004, 03:19 PM
I don't even know who plays for the Reds anymore :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :MandJ: :MandJ:

Are you like me, going "so this is what it feels like to follow a team that makes moves?" ;) :MandJ:

RedsFan75
12-21-2004, 03:19 PM
I'm almost giddy with excitement...well as giddy as accountants get :D

Can those 2 words go together in a sentence and not cause the fabic of the universe to unravel.... giddy and accountant... :D :MandJ:

traderumor
12-21-2004, 03:20 PM
Can those 2 words go together in a sentence and not cause the fabic of the universe to unravel.... giddy and accountant... :D :MandJ:
Have you been talking to my wife? :confused: :)

zombie-a-go-go
12-21-2004, 03:20 PM
I would be more than willing to do that. I'd even give them Dane Sarhina! :MandJ:

Let's not be too generous, now. :MandJ:

Red Leader
12-21-2004, 03:20 PM
Are you like me, going "so this is what it feels like to follow a team that makes moves?" ;) :MandJ:


Exactly. I'm not even sure I'm on the right board anymore. :MandJ:

zombie-a-go-go
12-21-2004, 03:21 PM
Could Plan A, B, and C culminate in the procurement of a third baseman, also known as the "hot corner" (using fingers to make quote marks), thus setting wheels in motion for Plan B to come to fruition, which set off a thermonuclear reaction that allowed Plan C to climax?

Watch it buddy; this is a family board. ;) :D

Redsfaithful
12-21-2004, 03:21 PM
best all-around player when he's at his all-time low point in terms of value.

We're giving up Adam Dunn now?

Dealing Kearns for Vazquez is risky, but it's not very often that small market teams don't have to take on risk when they make deals.

If Dan'O does this deal and we get the 2003 Vazquez then the Reds start to look really, really interesting as a sleeper team in 2005.

Aronchis
12-21-2004, 03:22 PM
Relax people, this is the Reds your talking about.

zombie-a-go-go
12-21-2004, 03:22 PM
AD is not our best all-around player, Redsfaithful... he strikes out too much.

buckeyenut
12-21-2004, 03:23 PM
One of the reasons I don't like these kinds of signings is that if he puts up a decent month or two, or is viewed as a good "clubhouse guy" or puts up a decent batting average, which he usually does, or has a few key RBIs, people will be clamoring for the FO to resign the guy. And John Allen will do it if he thinks the fans want it.

One year signings are good in theory, but with the Reds FO it will likely turn into another Jimmy Haynes or Paul Wilson.


It's like my kids when they sy "just five more minutes, dad." Well, it's never just five more minutes. And with the Reds, it's not likely to be just one year.
What you say is very true. But with EE down on the farm, a shrewd GM would hope for a good couple of months from Randa and a trade deadline flip. That is where the value of signing some of these guys can come in even if you aren't ready for the playoffs yet.

traderumor
12-21-2004, 03:23 PM
Watch it buddy; this is a family board. ;) :D
Hey, no stars, so its clean, although *****foot did get five stars the other day (and today ;) )

Red Leader
12-21-2004, 03:23 PM
Does anyone get the feeling that DanO threw down all of his binders this morning and said "Screw it, I'm going for it, and I'm going for it all" :MandJ:

reds77
12-21-2004, 03:24 PM
Press conf. at 3:30...

...and Jiminez signed to avoid arbitration


More to follow

So I'm gonna guess the conference is just to announce Randa and the keeping of Jiminez, nothing more?

traderumor
12-21-2004, 03:26 PM
So I'm gonna guess the conference is just to announce Randa and the keeping of Jiminez, nothing more?and the resigning of John Allen after Lindner walked in his office and threw his budget projections on his desk...after putting it through the paper shredder :MandJ:

Now that would make it a good day.

zombie-a-go-go
12-21-2004, 03:26 PM
Does anyone get the feeling that DanO threw down all of his binders this morning and said "Screw it, I'm going for it, and I'm going for it all" :MandJ:

Dan-O:

http://ffmedia.ign.com/filmforce/image/coen6.jpg

MasonBuzz3
12-21-2004, 03:27 PM
will the 3:30 presser be available to listen to online?

traderumor
12-21-2004, 03:28 PM
wlw is streaming

700wlw.com follow the links

Edd Roush
12-21-2004, 03:29 PM
What a day from DanO :eek: :)

buckeyenut
12-21-2004, 03:29 PM
I see a lot of talk about Vazquez from LA. Yes, he is an established pitcher, but I'd personally rather see the Reds go after Edwin Jackson. Aren't the rumors pretty much the Dodgers insist on Dunn where the Reds offered Kearns?

I'm pleased with the Randa signing. Should be interesting to see what happens with our 4 OFs (Assuming Griffey is healthy...big assumption I know).
How about this one? If I am DanO and the Dodgers insist on Dunn, I counter with Vasquez (entire contract paid) and Jackson for Dunn. They want to join me in that ballpark, we can talk. Otherwise, they can think about someone else.

Vasquez for Casey would be interesting, especially since Green goes in that deal, and I don't think LA is ready to give the job to Choi.

letsgojunior
12-21-2004, 03:30 PM
We're giving up Adam Dunn now?

Dealing Kearns for Vazquez is risky, but it's not very often that small market teams don't have to take on risk when they make deals.

If Dan'O does this deal and we get the 2003 Vazquez then the Reds start to look really, really interesting as a sleeper team in 2005.

I think when healthy Kearns is a better all-around player than Dunn by a significant margin, in terms of defensive play, baseball IQ, strike zone selectivity. Dunn made huge strides offensively in 2004, but I'm still not convinced he can impact the game on both sides.

As for the risk, this is just not the type of risk you take IMO. What's it going to do to the payroll? Vazquez, JR, Casey, Graves would basically take up about 80% of the payroll. And what happens when JR inevitably gets hurt and WMP's #'s slide when pitchers adjust to him? We've always operated under the premise that we've got this tremendous depth in the OF, and that replaceable parts are readily available. That's true to a degree, as Guillen and Encarnacion put up tremendous numbers as Reds. But the return we got on them was minimal, and we ended up going from 4 men for 2 spots to Dunn and two scrubs starting by the time August rolled around.

And Vazquez has logged a tremendous number of innings for a pretty young guy, and struggled as soon as he got into an environment outside of Montreal (ie more pressure). IMO, if you're going to take a risk, do it with a younger cheaper guy. I agree that the only way Vazquez should come back is if JR is involved, because any other way the payroll would just be strangled for the next 2-3 years.

Matt700wlw
12-21-2004, 03:31 PM
What a day from DanO :eek: :)

As we speak, he's on oxygen and has his hanky wiping the sweat off of his brow

markymark69
12-21-2004, 03:31 PM
AD is not our best all-around player, Redsfaithful... he strikes out too much.

Mike Schmidt struck out a lot too and he ended up in the HOF.

Red Leader
12-21-2004, 03:31 PM
How about this one? If I am DanO and the Dodgers insist on Dunn, I counter with Vasquez (entire contract paid) and Jackson for Dunn. They want to join me in that ballpark, we can talk. Otherwise, they can think about someone else.

Vasquez for Casey would be interesting, especially since Green goes in that deal, and I don't think LA is ready to give the job to Choi.

Vazquez for Griffey would be a steal. Vazquez for Casey and Vazquez for Kearns would hard to swalow, but might make sense (especially Casey $). Vazquez for Dunn is plain stupid.

Matt700wlw
12-21-2004, 03:32 PM
So I'm gonna guess the conference is just to announce Randa and the keeping of Jiminez, nothing more?


But you know it will take 15 minutes and a lot of big words to say it!!

Marty and Joe
12-21-2004, 03:33 PM
But you know it will take 15 minutes and a lot of big words to say it!!

:MandJ: :MandJ:

Redsfaithful
12-21-2004, 03:33 PM
I agree that the only way Vazquez should come back is if JR is involved, because any other way the payroll would just be strangled for the next 2-3 years.

You're assuming the Reds would be paying for that contract for the life of it.

Javier's only what? 28? He's going to have trade value while a Red if the Reds would ever want out.

I don't think the Reds should be completely afraid of the big contract just because of what happened with Junior. The main problem with Junior's contract, in my opinion, wasn't the money. It was the length.

traderumor
12-21-2004, 03:34 PM
What a day from DanO :eek: :)Well, so far Jiminez is the only "official" word. Randa I'm 99.99 sure will happen because Scoop (aka BrooklynRedz) seems to have a reliable source that allowed him to give us a heads up about Ortiz. The other stuff is Plan C, and is in some unknown stage known as various.

deltachi8
12-21-2004, 03:35 PM
The Casey idea is interesting....I thought I had read that one of the holdups was LA needing an impact bat and preferably a 1b. Hmmm....now if i can remember where i read that?

Something is a brewing i tells ya

SteelSD
12-21-2004, 03:35 PM
I...see...old...people...

zombie-a-go-go
12-21-2004, 03:35 PM
Javier's only what? 28? He's going to have trade value while a Red if the Reds would ever want out.

Unless he proves to be injury prone. Or stinks up the joint and the Reds have to eat part of his contract to get him out of here. In both cases, the return on such a trade would stink anyway.

I wouldn't count those chickens.

pedro
12-21-2004, 03:35 PM
Mike Schmidt struck out a lot too and he ended up in the HOF.


you'll fit right in around here. I believe Zombie was being facecious.

Red Leader
12-21-2004, 03:36 PM
I...see...old...people...


:MandJ:

Cedric
12-21-2004, 03:36 PM
Wily Mo Pena is going to be the starting CF for the Reds this year, there is absolutely no way he doesn't start. Something is gonna happen, it has to.

zombie-a-go-go
12-21-2004, 03:37 PM
I...see...old...people...

:rotflmao:

Falls City Beer
12-21-2004, 03:38 PM
Wily Mo Pena is going to be the starting CF for the Reds this year, there is absolutely no way he doesn't start. Something is gonna happen, it has to.

If that's the case, then it's clear to me that DanO doesn't prioritize the right things vis. offensive ability. (unless he's platooned with Mohr).

Cedric
12-21-2004, 03:41 PM
Yea, who likes a 22 year old that ops about .850 and projected to about 50 home runs and 120 rbi. Wily Mo is gonna rake enough that he's gonna get on base. There are certain players with enough talent that they don't need to walk to be productive ball players, it's a VERY select group. But Wily Mo has the tools and the talent to be in that group.

traderumor
12-21-2004, 03:41 PM
Well go for 100% sure on Randa. mlbradio.com is reporting this on fantasy411 as if its fact. Good call again BrooklynRedz. Keep those heads up coming.

Putting us on the cutting edge around here is, well...just cool :RedinDC:

letsgojunior
12-21-2004, 03:43 PM
You're assuming the Reds would be paying for that contract for the life of it.

Javier's only what? 28? He's going to have trade value while a Red if the Reds would ever want out.

I don't think the Reds should be completely afraid of the big contract just because of what happened with Junior. The main problem with Junior's contract, in my opinion, wasn't the money. It was the length.

IMO he's not going to have trade value if he puts up another 2004 like year, when he's slotted to make $11.5 and $12.5 M. A similar pitcher in terms of stats, age, and fall-off is Matt Morris, who went from making $10M+ in 2004 to just signing a contract for $2.5. In today's depressed market, $11-12.5 M says that you are a legitimate #1 big game pitcher (especially on a small market team).

And if you're correct regarding his trade value, I doubt that LA is going to pay much (if anything) of his salary, given that they could also flip him to a bigger market team without being responsible for any financial considerations.

Falls City Beer
12-21-2004, 03:43 PM
Yea, who likes a 22 year old that ops about .850 and projected to about 50 home runs and 120 rbi. Wily Mo is gonna rake enough that he's gonna get on base. There are certain players with enough talent that they don't need to walk to be productive ball players, it's a VERY select group. But Wily Mo has the tools and the talent to be in that group.


Okay, I really will bet another kid if Pena only OPSs .850, but still hits 50 bombs!!! :devil:

Puffy
12-21-2004, 03:45 PM
Yea, who likes a 22 year old that ops about .850 and projected to about 50 home runs and 120 rbi. Wily Mo is gonna rake enough that he's gonna get on base. There are certain players with enough talent that they don't need to walk to be productive ball players, it's a VERY select group. But Wily Mo has the tools and the talent to be in that group.

Also, what people seem to keep overlooking, is that WMP was night and day with regards to selectivity last year as opposed to just two years ago. The kid has the ability and the desire to learn the different facets of the game like few others.

If you give WMP 600 PA's this year his walks will increase by 33% over last year's numbers (which would give him between 55 and 60 BB's).

Red Leader
12-21-2004, 03:46 PM
Current depth chart?

C: LaRue, Valentin, Sardhina
1B: Casey, Zapp
2B: Jimenez, Freel, Lopez, Machado
SS: Lopez, Machado, Jimenez
3B: Randa, Freel
LF: Dunn, Freel
CF: Pena, Griffey
RF: Kearns, Griffey

Thus, Jr is now a bench player.

Hmmm, now if you trade Kearns that leaves an OF of Dunn, Griffey, Pena.

If you trade Casey that means an OF of Kearns, Griffey, Pena and Dunn at 1B and not very likely to stay a Red very long.

I think I'd trade Kearns.

pedro
12-21-2004, 03:46 PM
question: Krusty has been a big advocate of Randa's forever. Does he like this any less b/c it wasn't a trade?

just sayin

PressBox
12-21-2004, 03:47 PM
I need a resident payroll guru to bring me up to speed now.

According to ESPN.com, Randa made 3.5 mill last season, so I figure the Reds must have signed him for about this much. You can probably follow my logic from here, but where does his signing put our payroll?

I have been hoping since the season ended that DoB would go after Randa; I think this is another solid FA signing for the Reds. Randa is a good contact hitter and a good bunter who has fared well in the #2 hole, although it's unlikely he'll hit so high for Dave Miley. He plays exceptional defense, too.

With the payroll and the roster situation, I have to think another shoe is going to drop soon. The next few days or weeks should be interesting.

I, for one, am on record as really liking this signing.

Dan
12-21-2004, 03:47 PM
I think when healthy Kearns is a better all-around player than Dunn by a significant margin, in terms of defensive play, baseball IQ, strike zone selectivity. Dunn made huge strides offensively in 2004, but I'm still not convinced he can impact the game on both sides.

I'm not in disagreement with you here at all. I think Kearns - if healthy - can have a DiMaggio-type impact/career. Dunn is more of a Reggie Jackson/Mike Schmidt, which isn't too shabby either.


As for the risk, this is just not the type of risk you take IMO. What's it going to do to the payroll? Vazquez, JR, Casey, Graves would basically take up about 80% of the payroll. And what happens when JR inevitably gets hurt and WMP's #'s slide when pitchers adjust to him? We've always operated under the premise that we've got this tremendous depth in the OF, and that replaceable parts are readily available. That's true to a degree, as Guillen and Encarnacion put up tremendous numbers as Reds. But the return we got on them was minimal, and we ended up going from 4 men for 2 spots to Dunn and two scrubs starting by the time August rolled around.

That's why we need to sign a guy like Mohr who can step in and do a fairly solid job. But for the impact that Vasquez can have not just in his own spot in the rotation but overall on the pitching staff, I think you have to go with the trade if you can make it. Vasquez makes Wilson a #3 starter, which is a role he should flourish in. It allows us to coddle Claussen, Hancock, et al rather than rushing them when they might not be ready for ML starting duties. If we also signed a guy like Schoenweis, the rotation would be quite solid, IMO.

Vasquez
Ortiz
Wilson
Harang
Schoenweis/Claussen/Hudson/Hancock

much better than...

Ortiz
Wilson
Harang
Hudson
Claussen/Hancock

Vasquez is the bonefide ace (even if he has logged lots of innings) this team needs to move into the 1st division, and I think you gotta get him if you have the chance.


And Vazquez has logged a tremendous number of innings for a pretty young guy, and struggled as soon as he got into an environment outside of Montreal (ie more pressure). IMO, if you're going to take a risk, do it with a younger cheaper guy.

Such as? I don't really think anyone else is available. Perez? Clement? Milton? They come with their own baggage.


I agree that the only way Vazquez should come back is if JR is involved, because any other way the payroll would just be strangled for the next 2-3 years.

I hope not. But if that's how it has to be...

creek14
12-21-2004, 03:47 PM
question: Krusty has been a big advocate of Randa's forever. Does he like this any less b/c it wasn't a trade?

just sayin
:MandJ: :MandJ: :MandJ:

RedsFan75
12-21-2004, 03:47 PM
I'm with Puffy on the WMP PA's. The improvement he's made the last few years is amazing.... Going from Pedro Cerrano, to where he is now makes him worth keeping as far as I'm concerned.

zombie-a-go-go
12-21-2004, 03:47 PM
Current depth chart?

Freel can play OF, too.

westofyou
12-21-2004, 03:47 PM
Yea, who likes a 22 year old that ops about .850 and projected to about 50 home runs and 120 rbi. Wily Mo is gonna rake enough that he's gonna get on base. There are certain players with enough talent that they don't need to walk to be productive ball players, it's a VERY select group. But Wily Mo has the tools and the talent to be in that group.

Meanwhile down south.



PLAYER AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS SLG OBP E

Pena, Willy Mo, .175 16 57 9 10 0 0 5 14 7 19 0 0 .439 .266 0


There are certain players with enough talent that they don't need to walk to be productive ball players, it's a VERY select group.

Problem is these players tend to boost their skillset by having the ability to have batting average drive their game. WMP has never hit above .270.

Redsfaithful
12-21-2004, 03:49 PM
IMO he's not going to have trade value if he puts up another 2004 like year, when he's slotted to make $11.5 and $12.5 M. A similar pitcher in terms of stats, age, and fall-off is Matt Morris, who went from making $10M+ in 2004 to just signing a contract for $2.5. In today's depressed market, $11-12.5 M says that you are a legitimate #1 big game pitcher (especially on a small market team).

And if you're correct regarding his trade value, I doubt that LA is going to pay much (if anything) of his salary, given that they could also flip him to a bigger market team without being responsible for any financial considerations.

And that's where the risk comes in. I'm not denying it's there, I'm just saying that small market teams have to take it on if they want to do big things. One bad year doesn't always make a bad pitcher.

His early usage scares me as well, but he also switched leagues in 2004, and played in New York, probably the toughest place to play in baseball. How much that had to do with his drop-off, I don't know.

This is all just speculation obviously, but I think a Kearns for Vazquez deal is a risk the Reds should take, and I say that agreeing with you 100% that Kearns is a force when healthy.

Aronchis
12-21-2004, 03:50 PM
Meanwhile down south.



PLAYER AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS SLG OBP E

Pena, Willy Mo, .175 16 57 9 10 0 0 5 14 7 19 0 0 .439 .266 0



Problem is these players tend to boost their skillset by having the ability to have batting average drive their game. WMP has never hit above .270.

You obviously don't have a good memory.

Redsfaithful
12-21-2004, 03:51 PM
Meanwhile down south.



PLAYER AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS SLG OBP E

Pena, Willy Mo, .175 16 57 9 10 0 0 5 14 7 19 0 0 .439 .266 0



Problem is these players tend to boost their skillset by having the ability to have batting average drive their game. WMP has never hit above .270.

7 walks in 57 at bats? Not too shabby.

Yeah his average is in the crapper, but it's 57 at bats.

Cedric
12-21-2004, 03:52 PM
He hit .260, it's not like it's unreasonable for him to hit .270. He didn't hit .220 or something. If Wily Mo stays at .250-.260 range he still is a very productive ballplayer if he increases his walks by the percentage Puffy talks about. The kid grew tremendously last year and with some more plate discipline you are talking about a real special ballplayer.

And i'm not saying you can't disagree with me, but I bet the house that Wily Mo get's 600 at bats if he is on this ballclub. There is absolutely no way you don't either trade him, show him off, or watch him become a star. Sitting on the bench will not happen.

Falls City Beer
12-21-2004, 03:52 PM
Put me down as opposed to Kearns for Vazquez. He's way too expensive and really not all that great.

westofyou
12-21-2004, 03:53 PM
7 walks in 57 at bats? Not too shabby.

Makes you wonder how many are true?

westofyou
12-21-2004, 03:53 PM
You obviously don't have a good memory.

Eh?

Puffy
12-21-2004, 03:54 PM
Problem is these players tend to boost their skillset by having the ability to have batting average drive their game. WMP has never hit above .270.

Thats a great point WOY - Pena is never going to be Vlad.

But I think, with his learning curve, that he will start to hit for a slightly higher average and will walk more.

I see his ceilings as the .280-.290 BA, and about 65-70 BB's. When combined with the 40 HR's that he will hit, well, I think we would all take those numbers.

Of course those are ceilings and not the numbers he will put up next year, but I do think he more a long term answer rather than a long term question mark.

Cedric
12-21-2004, 03:54 PM
So the walks aren't true but the batting average is? 57 aba judge what?

Redsfaithful
12-21-2004, 03:54 PM
Makes you wonder how many are true?

Stats not reliable in winter leagues?

westofyou
12-21-2004, 03:55 PM
Stats not reliable in winter leagues?

No I mean how many might have been IBB, the kids power can force the managers hand every now and then.

letsgojunior
12-21-2004, 03:55 PM
Put me down as opposed to Kearns for Vazquez. He's way too expensive and really not all that great.

What I was trying to say, but you conveyed it more accurately and concisely.

Red Leader
12-21-2004, 03:57 PM
Does anyone else feel like the Grinch in Dr. Seuss' book when his heart grows 3 times in one day? I don't know what the hell DanO is doing, but for some strange odd reason, I trust him. I trust at the end of all these moves, the Reds will be better. I don't know why, as I've never been a big DanO fan, but it appears to me that he is starting to get it. Like someone lit a fire under his butt and said "put a winner on the field...NOW"

traderumor
12-21-2004, 03:58 PM
7 walks in 57 at bats? Not too shabby.

Yeah his average is in the crapper, but it's 57 at bats.That would be a trend of crappy winter numbers two years in a row. Maybe he should just go sip drinks with umbrellas in them after hitting in the cage and working out during the offseason.

Cedric
12-21-2004, 03:59 PM
That's not allowed. :)

Red Leader
12-21-2004, 04:00 PM
Put me down as opposed to Kearns for Vazquez. He's way too expensive and really not all that great.

Vazquez is expensive and I won't argue that. I do think he has a pretty high ceiling. Higher than anyone I've heard talks about in regards to the Reds. He is a good power pitcher. It was reported that he had problems with his mechanics all year last year which led to the inflated numbers. He also switched to the AL. A move back to the NL with a good pitching coach could do wonders for him. His years in MON weren't too bad.

Puffy
12-21-2004, 04:00 PM
96 people are currently viewing this thread. This thread about Joe freakin Randa.

Just sayin' :)

westofyou
12-21-2004, 04:01 PM
That would be a trend of crappy winter numbers two years in a row. Maybe he should just go sip drinks with umbrellas in them after hitting in the cage and working out during the offseason.

Every inning in the outfield for WMP is an important one.

Plus I'm not "slamming" the kid, I just ran across his numbers this morning. I also respect his power numbers, but recognize that his OPS is too slugging heavy........now.

Redsfaithful
12-21-2004, 04:02 PM
No I mean how many might have been IBB, the kids power can force the managers hand every now and then.

Got ya.

creek14
12-21-2004, 04:02 PM
Does anyone else feel like the Grinch in Dr. Seuss' book when his heart grows 3 times in one day? I don't know what the hell DanO is doing, but for some strange odd reason, I trust him. I trust at the end of all these moves, the Reds will be better. I don't know why, as I've never been a big DanO fan, but it appears to me that he is starting to get it. Like someone lit a fire under his butt and said "put a winner on the field...NOW"
Someone please take the egg nog away from RL.

traderumor
12-21-2004, 04:03 PM
Every inning in the outfield for WMP is an important one.

Plus I'm not "slamming" the kid, I just ran across his numbers this morning. I also respect his power numbers, but recognize that his OPS is too slugging heavy........now.Good point, I hadn't thought of the D side of things.

traderumor
12-21-2004, 04:04 PM
Someone please take the egg nog away from RL.
We have a giddy accountant, a tipsy Red Leader, what's next, REDREAD giving some love to JA? :help:

Cedric
12-21-2004, 04:05 PM
Oh it is too heavy, it's always going to be that way though. I just think it's such a high ceiling there isn't a chance in hell the staff doesn't get a full season look at it. Wily Mo got so much better last year in plate discipline and ability to judge the strikezone that I can't see why he won't continue improving. Not to mention he is considered one of the hardest workers on the team.

flyer85
12-21-2004, 04:07 PM
Thus, Jr is now a bench player.


We know that is not going to happen.

Although that doesn't mean that Kearns and WMP are not likely to be more productive in 2005.

REDREAD
12-21-2004, 04:08 PM
what's next, REDREAD giving some love to JA? :help:

Let's not get carried away here :MandJ:

Danny Serafini
12-21-2004, 04:09 PM
96 people are currently viewing this thread. This thread about Joe freakin Randa.

Just sayin' :)

Yeah, but it's been 30 posts since anyone actually talked about Randa! :MandJ:

traderumor
12-21-2004, 04:09 PM
The real reason we signed Randa...

8 sac flies last year per Lance on 1360, apparently filling the gap made by Dunn in that area... :mhcky21:
Happy days are here again.

Matt700wlw
12-21-2004, 04:10 PM
You know I'm the first the bash the Reds if they breathe wrong...however, what they've done with a small budget is upgrade the rotation, bullpen, and infield

....At least they're doing SOMETHING...they did NOTHING last off-season

Puffy
12-21-2004, 04:12 PM
The real reason we signed Randa...

8 sac flies last year per Lance on 1360, apparently filling the gap made by Dunn in that area... :mhcky21:
Happy days are here again.

Ohhhhh, if only Bob Boone were still managing the Reds he could have Randa on the bench and use him as a pinch hitter whenever Dunn came up with a runner on third and less than two outs. Even if it were the first inning.

Wily E. Boone, SuperGenius :RedinDC:

westofyou
12-21-2004, 04:13 PM
Wily Mo got so much better last year in plate discipline and ability to judge the strikezone that I can't see why he won't continue improving.

He got the bat on the ball more and K'd less.

2003 - 1 bb 6% of his PA's
2004 - 1bb 5.75% of his PA's

2003 - 1 K 34% of his PA's
2004 - 1 K 29% of his PA's

2003 - Made an Out 74% of his PA's
2004 - Made an Out 71% of his PA's

ISO--Isolated power. SLG minus AVG, from .139 to .268 Which is the 16th highest for a 22 year old in MLB history

REDREAD
12-21-2004, 04:15 PM
....At least they're doing SOMETHING...they did NOTHING last off-season

I feel the same way. These moves aren't going to make us a contender, but hopefully will prevent us from being laughingstocks. At least DanO is making some effort this year. Some of the moves might backfire, but at least he's not resting on his laurels thinking that Larson and an undermanned bullpen will be "just fine".

redsfan30
12-21-2004, 04:15 PM
Matt...is the conference going to be carried on WLW?

Cedric
12-21-2004, 04:15 PM
I know that and understand that. Plate discipline doesn't just include walks. It's learning to wait in the count for better pitches to drive.

RosieRed
12-21-2004, 04:16 PM
Put me down as opposed to Kearns for Vazquez. He's way too expensive and really not all that great.

Ditto.

Matt700wlw
12-21-2004, 04:19 PM
Matt...is the conference going to be carried on WLW?

I don't think we're airing it...but we have it covered and will have sound later

Falls City Beer
12-21-2004, 04:20 PM
Ditto.

Vazquez will be lucky to have a Jeff Suppan-type season next year--and Suppan costs, what, 2-3 million a season? When you angle it into that light, his contract looks super ugly.

Far East
12-21-2004, 04:23 PM
Haven't read every post; sorry if this is a rerun.

Randa's SEASONAL AVERAGES (per 162 games played)
Years G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
7.92 162 589 76 169 34 4 13 81 47 80 5 3 0.286 0.341 0.424 0.765

Marty and Joe
12-21-2004, 04:30 PM
It's 3:30. Waiting patiently for that first hair-trigger poster to give us the scoop. :D

paulrichjr
12-21-2004, 04:34 PM
Does anyone else feel like the Grinch in Dr. Seuss' book when his heart grows 3 times in one day? I don't know what the hell DanO is doing, but for some strange odd reason, I trust him. I trust at the end of all these moves, the Reds will be better. I don't know why, as I've never been a big DanO fan, but it appears to me that he is starting to get it. Like someone lit a fire under his butt and said "put a winner on the field...NOW"


Folks I will say it again. DanO hasn't been the problem... John Allen and his number crunchers have been the problem for this team for years. When you increase the budget by $10 million dollars you can sign some bullpen help, bench help, and maybe a number 3 pitcher. DanO has money this Christmas for a change. I just hope he doesn't blow it all on a very expensive gift from Dodgers-Mart.

Cant Touch This
12-21-2004, 04:35 PM
Thanks, Marty ;)

Now back to the topic of this thread. Is WMP gonna be good :mhcky21:

Excellent humor. Our Weapon of Mass Pena is just fine. But is the word "none" singular, plural, or can it be both?

Marty and Joe
12-21-2004, 04:35 PM
I know it may be hard to interpret what DanO is saying, but someone please cut through all the big words and give us the details. :D :feedback:

BrooklynRedz
12-21-2004, 04:37 PM
It's official. Randa is a Red: http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/index.jsp?c_id=cin

Cedric
12-21-2004, 04:40 PM
That link was nothing new.

traderumor
12-21-2004, 04:40 PM
Why do they play the "financial terms not disclosed" game with a new signing? I'm sure there's a legitimate reason, but can't think of one.

Cedric
12-21-2004, 04:40 PM
Ok now it is.

larryboy
12-21-2004, 04:42 PM
WMP should start. Find a way to move Griffey even if it hurts. Make him cheap in 2005 and maybe Seattle or Baltimore bite, possibly get a pitcher out of it. The young player are what the Reds are about. They will need to be signed as they develop or the core will be lost. Randa is a great stop gap sign. I'd up my grade DanO.

creek14
12-21-2004, 04:44 PM
Is the press conference happening? I'm actually trying to work and figure out what's going on the Reds and I am one :confused: girl.

Puffy
12-21-2004, 04:44 PM
Yeah, the Reds signed a 35 year old third basemen with a career OPS of .765. Its parade time....

Puffy
12-21-2004, 04:45 PM
I'm actually trying to work and figure out what's going on the Reds and I am one :confused: girl.

But you are one special :confused: girl!!!!!! :thumbup:

creek14
12-21-2004, 04:45 PM
Yeah, the Reds signed a 35 year old third basemen with a career OPS of .765. Its parade time....
Give me a freaking break. That's all. Shades of the Van der wal press conference last season. Wonder if Randa shovels his own snow?

pedro
12-21-2004, 04:46 PM
this also opens up Freel to platoon w/ Jiminez at 2nd since DJ is putrid against LH pitching. (.591 OPS in 2004)

Red Leader
12-21-2004, 04:48 PM
Someone throw me a bone here. Was the presser only to announce the Randa signing?

westofyou
12-21-2004, 04:53 PM
Someone throw me a bone here. Was the presser only to announce the Randa signing?


What were you expecting a Vasquez trade? :allovrjr:

westofyou
12-21-2004, 04:55 PM
Give me a freaking break. That's all. Shades of the Van der wal press conference last season. Wonder if Randa shovels his own snow?

10 years ago they signed a 31 year old 3rd baseman with a lifetime .742 OPS and a slg% under .400.

It worked out well for a season.

jmcclain19
12-21-2004, 04:56 PM
http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cin/news/cin_press_release.jsp?ymd=20041221&content_id=924662&vkey=pr_cin&fext=.jsp

Here's the PR


Reds sign veteran infielder Joe Randa
D'Angelo Jimenez agrees 1-year contract, avoids arbitration



CINCINNATI -- Cincinnati Reds general manager Dan O'Brien today announced the signing of free-agent 3B Joe Randa to a 1-year contract. Terms of the deal were not disclosed.
Also today, the Reds agreed to terms on a 1-year contract with 2B D'Angelo Jimenez, who was eligible for arbitration coming off one of the best seasons of his career.

Randa, 35, last season for the Royals hit .287 with 8 HR and 56 RBI in 128 games. Despite missing almost a month of action after undergoing June 29 arthroscopic surgery on his right knee, Randa came back to earn the Royals' Player of the Month Award for September by hitting .316 with 2 HR and 14 RBI. On September 9 at Detroit he became the first player in American League history to produce 6 hits and 6 runs in a game.

The 10-year veteran spent the last 6 seasons in Kansas City, where he batted .289 and averaged 13 HR and 80 RBI per season. His most productive season came in 2000, when he hit .304 with 15 HR and 106 RBI in 158 games.

Randa ranks among Kansas City's all-time leaders in at bats (7th; 3,764), hits (7th; 1,084), doubles (7th; 223), RBI (7th; 533), batting average (7th; .288), extra-base hits (7th; 332), games (8th; 1,019) and runs scored (10th; 489). His 6 Opening Day starts is the second-highest total by a Royals third baseman, behind only Hall of Famer George Brett (12).

In addition to his 2 stints in Kansas City (1995-1996, 1999-2004), Randa also has played for the Pirates (1997) and Tigers (1998).

Jimenez, who is celebrating his 27th birthday today, last season for the Reds hit .270 with 12 HR, 67 RBI and 13 steals in 152 games. He established career highs in runs (76), hits (152), doubles (28), RBI and stolen bases.

Falls City Beer
12-21-2004, 04:58 PM
So basically Randa's the equivalent of moving Jason Larue to third base.

RedsFan75
12-21-2004, 05:00 PM
So basically Randa's the equivalent of moving Jason Larue to third base.

Ouch!

pedro
12-21-2004, 05:00 PM
10 years ago they signed a 31 year old 3rd baseman with a lifetime .742 OPS and a slg% under .400.

It worked out well for a season.

who was that?

oneupper
12-21-2004, 05:01 PM
WMP Stats To Date with Cibao.


PEŅA, WILLY MO 21 76 10 15 0 0 6 16 7 24 0 .197 .295

You guys know what the numbers mean.

ENCARNACION, EDWIN 43 141 19 34 8 0 3 11 14 25 2 .241 .323
Eddie plays for the same team

JIMENEZ, D'ANGELO 16 61 10 14 4 0 0 4 14 8 1 .230 .373

D'Lo plays for Licey.

Falls City Beer
12-21-2004, 05:02 PM
Ouch!

I don't see it that way--I like Larue offensively. Randa's an average 3rd basemen (maybe a tick above average). He's not great, but depth (offensively) is a good thing.

traderumor
12-21-2004, 05:02 PM
D'Lo plays for Licey.Great, now I'm itching my head. :p:

traderumor
12-21-2004, 05:03 PM
who was that?
must be tony fernandez

westofyou
12-21-2004, 05:03 PM
who was that?

TONY FERNANDEZ

RedsFan75
12-21-2004, 05:05 PM
I don't see it that way--I like Larue offensively. Randa's an average 3rd basemen (maybe a tick above average). He's not great, but depth (offensively) is a good thing.

I just had visions of LaRue trying to learn 3rd. That's why the Ouch. :D

I've been critical of LaRue's defense, but offensively I like him, if we get a LaRue type offensively at 3rd it'd be good... I just didn't want to envision LaRue trying 3rd.

pedro
12-21-2004, 05:05 PM
So basically Randa's the equivalent of moving Jason Larue to third base.


If JL was a good fielding 3rd baseman.

I like this deal. Yeah Randa's a scrub. And he's old. But 3rd base was a black hole last year and the other alternatives (freel, kearns) are not that attractive (freel) and completely insane (kearns). This allows the Reds to use Freel in platoon at 2nd and as super sub everywhere else. The other thing I like is having a veteran on that side of infield with Lopez. Infield defense is important, and let's face it the reds aren't particularily strong up the middle.

REDREAD
12-21-2004, 05:06 PM
who was that?

I think he means Tony Fernandez.

stevekun
12-21-2004, 05:06 PM
This pessimism is killing me...you all will be regreting saying these negative things about Randa...he is a solid 3rd baseman. You will see. I have seen him here in KC and all the fans here were MAD when the Royals let him walk.

oneupper
12-21-2004, 05:08 PM
Great, now I'm itching my head. :p:

Pronounce it LEE-SAY and it won't itch as much :)

RedsFan75
12-21-2004, 05:08 PM
This pessimism is killing me...you all will be regreting saying these negative things about Randa...he is a solid 3rd baseman. You will see. I have seen him here in KC and all the fans here were MAD when the Royals let him walk.

I've always liked Randa, and for one, am glad he's now a Red.

traderumor
12-21-2004, 05:13 PM
Pronounce it LEE-SAY and it won't itch as much :)
too late :)

Krusty
12-21-2004, 05:14 PM
He is a nice bridge to Encarncion when he should be ready to play the position in 2006.

As for the outfield, with all the injuries the Reds have had the past couple of seasons, you need to have four outfielders for three positions.

Red Leader
12-21-2004, 05:17 PM
Worst case scenario, in my opinion, with Randa (if healthy) is that he posts very average numbers through the All-Star break and is then sent to the bench for either Freel to take over at 3B full time the remainder of the season or EE to come up and get some experience. Even still, he still should play a better third base than anyone the Reds had planned on playing this year.

Best case scenario would be that Randa hits well and establishes some trade value in July. He can then be flipped for a prospect and Freel can take over 3B or EE can if he is ready.

Red Leader
12-21-2004, 05:18 PM
He is a nice bridge to Encarncion when he should be ready to play the position in 2006.

As for the outfield, with all the injuries the Reds have had the past couple of seasons, you need to have four outfielders for three positions.


Correct. The question is will the four be: Jr., Dunn, Kearns, and WMP?

or does Mohr take the spot of one of those 4?

Krusty
12-21-2004, 05:24 PM
As for the Vazquez for Kearns rumors......I don't see that happening unless the Dodgers are giving the Reds a boatload of cash. And if the Dodgers are sending cash to the Yankees for Ishii, I don't see this deal happening.

But I do think Kearns is on the move. To where is anyone's guess.

Red Leader
12-21-2004, 05:25 PM
Would you guys do a Kearns for Jeremy Bonderman trade with the Tigers. I would.

BrooklynRedz
12-21-2004, 05:25 PM
Kearns and Graves for Vasquez, then?

creek14
12-21-2004, 05:28 PM
Kearns and Graves for Vasquez, then?
Are you saying that as a fan or as someone in the know?

Falls City Beer
12-21-2004, 05:28 PM
Graves might actually have some success at Dodger Stadium. But I still wouldn't want to take on Vazquez' salary and arm-mileage.

Puffy
12-21-2004, 05:29 PM
Would you guys do a Kearns for Jeremy Bonderman trade with the Tigers. I would.

OK, I'm gonna have to ask you to step away from the Vodka Tonics. Far, far away.

RANDY IN INDY
12-21-2004, 05:30 PM
I would not be opposed to Freel as an everyday second baseman if Jimenez is dealt somewhere, but I'm not anxious to see him at third for any extended period. He gives it all he's got at third, but of all the positions that he can play, he looks less comfortable and natural at third base than anywhere else. In my opinion, his arm isn't dependable enough to be penciled in at third for a long period and is more suited for second. I don't mind the notion of Randa as a bridge to Encarnacion, but I don't know that he is going to be the can't miss that a lot of folks are projecting him to be at this point. I sure hope he is. I really think this will end the Kearns experiment at third.

Raisor
12-21-2004, 05:30 PM
He is a nice bridge to Encarncion when he should be ready to play the position in 2006.

.


Since the beginning of the 2003 season, Randa created 79.54 Runs per 600 TPA while Freel created 80.13 runs per 600 TPA. I just don't see a pressing reason to use resources to sign someone like Randa when there's someone already in-house, especially when the player that is in-house gives the team something it lacks, a legit top of the order guy. Randa is many things, but he's NOT a leadoff hitter.

The Reds, IMO, are much better off with Freel and Jiminez at the top of the lineup then with Jiminez and Lopez, with Randa in the lower 3rd.

Krusty
12-21-2004, 05:31 PM
Braves board buzzing about Kearns coming to their team.

http://mb3.scout.com/fatlantabravesfrm1.showMessageRange?topicID=12491. topic&start=1&stop=20

BrooklynRedz
12-21-2004, 05:32 PM
Are you saying that as a fan or as someone in the know?

Sorry, just as a fan.

Falls City Beer
12-21-2004, 05:33 PM
Braves board buzzing about Kearns coming to their team.

http://mb3.scout.com/fatlantabravesfrm1.showMessageRange?topicID=12491. topic&start=1&stop=20

The Braves have exactly nothing I want--boy, I hope the Reds don't do something stupid.

traderumor
12-21-2004, 05:35 PM
Since the beginning of the 2003 season, Randa created 79.54 Runs per 600 TPA while Freel created 80.13 runs per 600 TPA. I just don't see a pressing reason to use resources to sign someone like Randa when there's someone already in-house, especially when the player that is in-house gives the team something it lacks, a legit top of the order guy. Randa is many things, but he's NOT a leadoff hitter.

The Reds, IMO, are much better off with Freel and Jiminez at the top of the lineup then with Jiminez and Lopez, with Randa in the lower 3rd.

But could Freel excel as the everyday 3B...he can play it, but I wouldn't say he can play it at a high level every day.

Falls City Beer
12-21-2004, 05:35 PM
Braves board buzzing about Kearns coming to their team.

http://mb3.scout.com/fatlantabravesfrm1.showMessageRange?topicID=12491. topic&start=1&stop=20

I'm too lazy to register--what are they suggesting the deal is?

REDREAD
12-21-2004, 05:35 PM
This pessimism is killing me...you all will be regreting saying these negative things about Randa...he is a solid 3rd baseman. You will see. I have seen him here in KC and all the fans here were MAD when the Royals let him walk.


After 2 years of Brandon Larson/Castro, I'm seeing Randa as a big upgrade.

Sure, it won't make us a contender, but having someone who can play decent defense and hit ok (yeah, I know, not great) will be nice.

Raisor
12-21-2004, 05:37 PM
But could Freel excel as the everyday 3B...he can play it, but I wouldn't say he can play it at a high level every day.


I think he can be an average 3B. With what he brings on offense, that's good enough for me.

I'd rather they stick him at one place and leave him there. The only place that's available for them to do that is third.

pedro
12-21-2004, 05:37 PM
Since the beginning of the 2003 season, Randa created 79.54 Runs per 600 TPA while Freel created 80.13 runs per 600 TPA. I just don't see a pressing reason to use resources to sign someone like Randa when there's someone already in-house, especially when the player that is in-house gives the team something it lacks, a legit top of the order guy. Randa is many things, but he's NOT a leadoff hitter.

The Reds, IMO, are much better off with Freel and Jiminez at the top of the lineup then with Jiminez and Lopez, with Randa in the lower 3rd.

if we were talking about a DH, then yes. But we're not. Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't think Freel cuts it defensivley at 3rd base.

RFS62
12-21-2004, 05:38 PM
After 2 years of Brandon Larson/Castro, I'm seeing Randa as a big upgrade.

Sure, it won't make us a contender, but having someone who can play decent defense and hit ok (yeah, I know, not great) will be nice.


Redread, you're really starting to scare me lately.

REDREAD
12-21-2004, 05:40 PM
Since the beginning of the 2003 season, Randa created 79.54 Runs per 600 TPA while Freel created 80.13 runs per 600 TPA. .

So, if I'm reading this right, they are approximately equal in runs created.

Randa can field 3b better than Freel, so it's an upgrade, IMO.

Freel will get plenty of playing time, as he's Miley's boy, don't worry about that.

Maybe Jimeniz is on his way elsewhere. Just because he was offered arb doesn't mean he'll be on the team on opening day.

I don't have the stats (other than fielding percentage) to prove it, but 3b seemed to be Freel's worse posistion, by far.

Raisor
12-21-2004, 05:41 PM
if we were talking about a DH, then yes. But we're not. Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't think Freel cuts it defensivley at 3rd base.


For what Freel costs, yeah I can live with him on defense at third.