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RBA
04-05-2005, 09:37 PM
It must be an innocent oversight.



http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050402/capt.ny93904020331.pope_washington_ny939.jpg

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX TUE APRIL 05, 2005 16:25:35 ET XXXXX

BUSH PASSED OVER CARTER IN POPE FUNERAL PICK

President Bush selected his father and Bill Clinton over Jimmy Carter for the official delegation attending the funeral of Pope John Paul II, the Carter Center claimed Late Tuesday.

"President Carter expressed to the White House a desire to attend the Pope's funeral," an official said.

Carter "was informed that the official delegation would be limited to just five people, and there were also others who were eager to attend."

"The Carters always relish the memories of Pope John Paul II being a delightful personal guest at the White House in 1979, on a pope's only visit to our nation's capital city. Subsequently, they visited with His Holiness in the Vatican."

One senior GOP official said that Carter wanted to take his wife Rosalynn along, but was informed that would be impossible. It was unclear if Clinton asked to take along his wife, New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Developing...

GAC
04-05-2005, 09:55 PM
If Jimmy (and Rosealyn) want to go, then they can go. Just not at taxpayer expense or as part of the official delegate team. If you can only send five, then you have to narrow it down. The Carter's are not the only ones who have fond memories of the Pope, and whose lives were blessed and influenced by him.

I kinda like the fact that we are sending the team of Bush Sr and Clinton as part opf that delegation. They're a heck of a team aren't they? ;)

RedsBaron
04-05-2005, 10:00 PM
I kinda like the fact that we are sending the team of Bush Sr and Clinton as part opf that delegation. They're a heck of a team aren't they? ;)
I've read that Bush Sr. and Clinton hit it off during their recent trips together for tsunami relief. Reportedly Clinton allowed the older Bush to have use of a bed while Clinton slept on the floor, which Bush really appreciated. This may also be partially the result of their mutual membership in that most exclusive of clubs, that of ex-Presidents.
Of course, by 2008 there will probably be a renewed coldness if Hillary makes a presidential bid.

Raisor
04-05-2005, 10:07 PM
I've read that Bush Sr. and Clinton hit it off during their recent trips together for tsunami relief. Reportedly Clinton allowed the older Bush to have use of a bed while Clinton slept on the floor, which Bush really appreciated. .

1. Probably not the first time Clinton had to sleep on the floor. :evil:

2. I can see GHWB not letting Bill drive the VW Bus while on tour.

3. Hopefully they didn't stop at too many Japanese resturants. GHWB probably hasn't touched sushi since that overseas visit when he puked on the Japanese PM.

How'd you like to be hitch-hiking and the 67 VW Bus pulls over and it's George and Bill wanting to give you a lift? "Now Bill, I don't think it'd be prudent to pick up a stranger." "Aww come on George, he might have beef jerky!".

RBA
04-05-2005, 10:10 PM
www.news8austin.com


Faithful, world leaders prepare for funeral
Updated: 4/5/2005 4:56:12 PM
By: Staff and wire reports

VATICAN CITY The Vatican has broken from tradition again.

Pope John Paul II's body was not embalmed -- only "prepared" for viewing.

A spokesman didn't elaborate. But an embalmer in Rome said it appears that the pope's remains were touched up with cosmetics. Even a light embalming is necessary for a body that will be exposed for several days, he said.

At least 600,000 people waited in line Tuesday to say a brief goodbye to Pope John Paul II. That was the estimate from city officials in Rome, who say mourners have been passing by the pope's bier at a rate of 15,000 to 18,000 per hour.

The wait takes hours. Once inside St. Peter's Basilica, ushers move the crowd along quickly and it's over in a flash.

As one woman described it, "Security keeps telling you, 'Go, go, go.' " She said there wasn't even time to say a prayer.

The line snakes through St. Peter's Square, down the wide boulevard leading to the Vatican and into the side streets nearby. It's miles long. Speakers and giant screens broadcast prayers and hymns to those who wait. Traffic in Rome was at a near-standstill, with buses bringing more pilgrims into the area.

A 73-year-old woman was only about halfway there after waiting in line for four hours. But she said she was "doing this from the heart" and didn't need to rest.

Another woman who waited for three hours to get inside said the mood of those in line is chatty and relaxed. But she says the inside of the basilica is silent, except for the sounds of crying.

The crowds are expected to keep growing, with some predicting the number of pilgrims may end up equaling Rome's population of 3 million.

Mass in Poland

In Poland, about 150,000 people filled a Warsaw square for a Mass described as Poland's national farewell to Pope John Paul II. The Mass was in the same square where the Polish pope rallied his native nation to fight communist rule in 1979.

Poland's top Catholic leader opened the Mass by saying, "One more time the Holy Father is gathering us for prayers in this square."

When the pope was there in 1979, Cardinal Jozef Glemp said, "A great prayer took place, full of zest and power of the spirit."

The crowd included Poland's president, soldiers and Catholic school girls in uniform. A military band played the Polish national anthem and the Vatican anthem at the start of the Mass.

The altar was filled with red and white flowers representing the Polish flag, and with yellow and white representing the papal banner.

One woman leaving flowers in the square says the pope "made us stop and look into our hearts. Now there will be no one to do this."

The mayor of John Paul's hometown is bringing a sack of soil from key sites to the Vatican, requesting it be buried with the pope on Friday.

Along with the mayor, many Poles are expected to make it to the pontiff's funeral at the Vatican.

An informal government survey of travel operators shows about 2 million Poles are expected to travel to Rome.

Extra buses, trains and flights are being scheduled. Poland's national airline would normally only have one flight to Rome. Instead, there will be five, and that's only because Italian authorities won't allow more flights.

The Foreign Ministry said it can't get an accurate count of just how many Poles will travel because "there are too many places and organizations" planning their own trips.

World leaders planning trips to Rome

President Bush said he's also looking forward to representing America at the funeral for John Paul.

Speaking to reporters during a Cabinet meeting, the president said the pope lived a "remarkable life" and "stood for freedom and human dignity."

The White House said two of Bush's predecessors will join him on the trip to Rome: his father and former President Clinton. The first lady and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice will join the three presidents.

Both recently traveled to South Asia together to view tsunami relief efforts. But soon after they got back, Clinton had surgery to repair complications from last year's heart bypass. He had to get his doctor's permission to go to Rome.

Two other former presidents aren't making the trip: Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter. Ford is 91 and no longer travels extensively. Carter wanted to go on the trip, but the delegation was limited to five, so Carter withdrew his name.

Britain's Prince Charles will also attend; he's even delayed his wedding by a day. He'll be joined by British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

In a highly unusual move, Germany will be represented by both Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder and by the country's president. Usually one or the other leader attends official ceremonies abroad.

French President Jacques Chirac and his wife will attend.

Spain's King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia will also attend. The Spanish delegation will also include Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, whose socialist government has clashed with the Roman Catholic Church over same-sex marriage.

Security tightening up

With all the dignitaries and growing crows, security has been stepped up.

More than 6,000 extra police have been deployed. They include snipers, bomb-disposal experts and motorcycle escorts. About 1,500 officers will be assigned to the foreign dignitaries, including President Bush.

There was no imposing police presence in St. Peter's Square or in the tourist areas of Rome. If snipers are on rooftops, they are not visible.

Police did clear mourners from a large area of the square until the pope's remains were inside the basilica for public viewing, and dozens of uniformed officers walked with the crowd as people filed past his remains.

Security in general was tightened after the assassination attempt on the pope in 1981, and again after the 2001 terror attacks in the United States.

The pope's would-be assassin Mehmet Ali Agca will not attend the funeral.

Agca had applied for a three-day leave under a Turkish law that allows it for prisoners who have completed a quarter of their sentences and shown good behavior.

Pope John Paul forgave him.

Agca's lawyer was informed his client is not eligible.

Agca shot and seriously wounded the pope in 1981. Two years later, John Paul met with him in an Italian prison and forgave him.

Agca spent nearly 20 years in prison in Italy. He was extradited to Turkey in 2000.

Religious man in secular world

Many countries are facing the difficulties of honoring a religious man in a secular world.

Prime Minister Bertie Ahern ordered government buildings to fly the Irish flag at half-staff, but he stirred arguments by refusing to declare a national holiday for the pontiff's funeral.

Many favor a "national day of mourning" in Ireland, an overwhelmingly Roman Catholic nation, to coincide with the pope's funeral. Ireland observed such an exceptional holiday following the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.

Government employees and teachers would be allowed to take Friday off "to attend an appropriate service," and Ahearn urged private employers to permit the same privilege.

Employers accused people of trying to exploit the pope's death to get out of work.

French secularists are also criticizing the government for lowering flags on public buildings to honor Pope John Paul. They're calling it an attack on France's century-old law separating church and state.

France's prime minister said the order is "in keeping with republican custom." But critics say the republican custom is secular. They point to the law enacted last year that bans Islamic head scarves and other conspicuous religious symbols from schools.

A French cardinal disputed the critics' view saying it "in no way damages secularism" which he strongly supports.

France is a largely Roman Catholic country with western Europe's largest populations of Muslims and Jews.



Copyright 2005 TWEAN d.b.a. News 8 Austin

savafan
04-21-2005, 10:12 PM
Just found this also. Apparently Carter was snubbed in favor of Condi Rice.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=4&u=/nm/20050405/pl_nm/pope_usa_delegation_dc&sid=84439559

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Former Presidents George Bush and Bill Clinton will accompany President Bush to Friday's funeral of Pope John Paul II, but former President Jimmy Carter bowed out after he was told the size of the delegation was limited.


Carter spokesman Jon Moor said the Nobel Peace Prize winner, who was in the White House when John Paul was elected, had "expressed to the White House a desire to attend the pope's funeral."


"He was quite willing to withdraw his request when he was subsequently informed that the official delegation would be limited to just five people, and there were also others who were eager to attend," Moor said Tuesday.


Carter and his wife, Rosalynn, will be honoring the pope "in spirit," he added.


Carter, a Democrat, was a harsh critic of Bush in last year's U.S. election campaign. The White House had no immediate reaction to Carter's statement.


White House spokesman Scott McClellan earlier said the administration had invited Carter to join the delegation but that he would not be going. Carter's spokesman said the decision was not related to the 80-year-old former president's health.


Bush, who will also be accompanied by first lady Laura Bush, said in Parkersburg, West Virginia, that the pope had shown that "one man can make an enormous difference" and he looked forward to honoring his memory.


"What a great man," Bush told reporters at the White House later. "It will be my honor to represent our country at a ceremony marking a remarkable life, a person who stood for freedom and human dignity."


Bush leaves for Rome Wednesday. Thursday he is to meet Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, a close Bush ally on the Iraq war.


Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice will also be part of the U.S. delegation.


Bush met the pope three times during his presidency -- in 2001, 2002 and 2004 -- and presented him with the Medal of Freedom, the highest U.S. civilian award.


The U.S. Senate, meanwhile, announced it would be sending a 14-member delegation, all Catholic except Majority Leader Bill Frist, a Tennessee Republican who is Presbyterian.


The Democrats included the assistant Senate leader, Richard Durbin of Illinois, and the two Massachusetts senators, Edward Kenndy, whose brother John was the only Catholic president, and John Kerry, whose presidential run last year was criticized by some Catholics because of his support for abortion rights.


House leaders had not finalized their delegation. (Additional reporting by Tabassum Zakaria, Caren Bohan and Joanne Kenen)

GAC
04-21-2005, 10:27 PM
Just found this also. Apparently Carter was snubbed in favor of Condi Rice.

Snubbed in favor of Condi? Why are some trying to make more out of this, when the Carters aren't? She is the current Secretary of State, and should be part of that official delegation representing not only this administration, but also our country, since foreign diplomacy is apart of her job duties. ;)

savafan
04-21-2005, 10:32 PM
Snubbed in favor of Condi? Why are some trying to make more out of this, when the Carters aren't? She is the current Secretary of State, and should be part of that official delegation representing not only this administration, but also our country, since foreign diplomacy is apart of her job duties. ;)

I don't know, but I would have given the nod to former President Carter over Condi Rice.

RedsBaron
04-21-2005, 10:37 PM
Snubbed in favor of Condi? Why are some trying to make more out of this, when the Carters aren't? She is the current Secretary of State, and should be part of that official delegation representing not only this administration, but also our country, since foreign diplomacy is apart of her job duties. ;)
I agree. If the delegation had to be limited to five, sending the current President, First Lady and Secretary of State would seem to me to be three obvious choices. That leaves two slots. Who better than the two most recent prior Presidents, one of whom is the current President's father and the other of whom is the current President's immediate predecessor and a member of the oposing political party?
I'm curious-Carter was President when both Pope Paul VI and Pope John Paul I died in 1978. Did he attend either of their funerals?

KittyDuran
04-21-2005, 10:48 PM
I agree. If the delegation had to be limited to five, sending the current President, First Lady and Secretary of State would seem to me to be three obvious choices. That leaves two slots. Who better than the two most recent prior Presidents, one of whom is the current President's father and the other of whom is the current President's immediate predecessor and a member of the oposing political party?
I'm curious-Carter was President when both Pope Paul VI and Pope John Paul I died in 1978. Did he attend either of their funerals? I think this is the first time any sitting US President has ever attend a Pope funeral. Carter was the first US President to ever invite a Pope to the White House.

Unassisted
04-21-2005, 10:49 PM
Carter loyalists are mostly collecting Social Security now. As a voting bloc, they're not likely to get worked up about a snub of JC. This was a politically-motivated decision and this former President has spent his time out of office on social justice issues, rather than cultivating a political power base. Jimmy's work over the last quarter-century may have ensured his place in heaven, but not in the papal funeral delegation.

savafan
04-21-2005, 10:51 PM
I agree. If the delegation had to be limited to five, sending the current President, First Lady and Secretary of State would seem to me to be three obvious choices. That leaves two slots. Who better than the two most recent prior Presidents, one of whom is the current President's father and the other of whom is the current President's immediate predecessor and a member of the oposing political party?
I'm curious-Carter was President when both Pope Paul VI and Pope John Paul I died in 1978. Did he attend either of their funerals?

It's interesting, but no, Carter declined to attend both of those funerals, sending his wife as a representative in his place.

RedsBaron
04-21-2005, 10:58 PM
This was a politically-motivated decision
Why then include Bill Clinton, a critic of George W. Bush, and someone whose wife may be a Presidential contender in 2008?
If the delegation could have included more than five, fine-let Carter and Gerald Ford go if they want to, but with only five slots, who does Carter replace? It isn't like the delegation included Karl Rove or Tom Delay or Rush Limbaugh---the current President, the First Lady, the Secretary of Sate and the two most recent former Presidents seem like obvoius choices to me.

KittyDuran
04-21-2005, 10:59 PM
I wonder if Carter was presuaded not to attend the two previous Pope's funerals because they were not official state funerals. I don't believe that the US recognized the Vatican as a sovereign state... :confused:

Unassisted
04-21-2005, 11:00 PM
Why then include Bill Clinton, a critic of George W. Bush, and someone whose wife may be a Presidential contender in 2008?
If the delegation could have included more than five, fine-let Carter and Gerald Ford go if they want to, but with only five slots, who does Carter replace? It isn't like the delegation included Karl Rove or Tom Delay or Rush Limbaugh---the current President, the First Lady, the Secretary of Sate and the two most recent former Presidents seem like obvoius choices to me.Let Condi focus on negotiating and mending the many broken fences around the world that Colin Powell couldn't seem to find the time to tend to. She doesn't need to be attending funerals.

RedsBaron
04-21-2005, 11:11 PM
Britain's Prince Charles will also attend; he's even delayed his wedding by a day. He'll be joined by British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

In a highly unusual move, Germany will be represented by both Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder and by the country's president. Usually one or the other leader attends official ceremonies abroad.

French President Jacques Chirac and his wife will attend.

Spain's King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia will also attend. The Spanish delegation will also include Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero
In my opinion, this seems to have been a logical gathering for a current Secretary of State to attend rather than someone who has not been President for a quarter of a century.

KittyDuran
04-21-2005, 11:13 PM
In my opinion, this seems to have been a logical gathering for a current Secretary of State to attend rather than someone who has not been President for a quarter of a century. But he was the first US President to invite a Pope, who happened to be JPII to the White House.

savafan
04-21-2005, 11:18 PM
But he was the first US President to invite a Pope, who happened to be JPII to the White House.

And they had met on more than one occassion. Had Rice ever met JPII?

ws1990reds
04-22-2005, 01:07 AM
I don't know, but I would have given the nod to former President Carter over Condi Rice.

I think that Condi Rice should hook up with Dan O'Brien. They do have one thing in common. :D

creek14
04-22-2005, 05:58 AM
I'm thinking John Paul II didn't care that Carter wasn't there, and I don't either.

zombie-a-go-go
04-22-2005, 06:03 AM
I'm thinking John Paul II didn't care that Carter wasn't there, and I don't either.

:clap: :laugh: :clap:

GAC
04-22-2005, 09:32 AM
Let Condi focus on negotiating and mending the many broken fences around the world that Colin Powell couldn't seem to find the time to tend to. She doesn't need to be attending funerals.

But this is not just your regular run-of-the-mill funeral. Whenever it involves a foreign head of state, or a dignitary such as the Pope, then it is a part of her job as Secretary of State.

paintmered
04-22-2005, 09:38 AM
But this is not just your regular run-of-the-mill funeral. Whenever it involves a foreign head of state, or a dignitary such as the Pope, then it is a part of her job as Secretary of State.


Additionally, the pope is the absoloute monarch of Vatican City. So he is a foreign head of state as well.

RBA
04-22-2005, 10:04 AM
Additionally, the pope is the absoloute monarch of Vatican City. So he is a foreign head of state as well.

So going to funerals of all heads of states is her job?
Did she go to Prince Rainer's funeral?
I see she selectively does her job as she did her previous job.
Face it folks, this was a calculated political move. Nothing more.

RedsBaron
04-22-2005, 10:39 AM
I still have read nothing to support the apparent assertion that Carter "deserved" to be part of the official delegation. If America could only send five people, why did Carter deserve to be part of the delegation, and of the five who did go, who was a less appropriate representative?

RedsBaron
04-22-2005, 10:44 AM
So going to funerals of all heads of states is her job?
Did she go to Prince Rainer's funeral?
I see she selectively does her job as she did her previous job.
Face it folks, this was a calculated political move. Nothing more.
Nobody has argued that Condi Rice should go to the funerals "of all heads of state." There is little comparsion between the effect Pope John Paul II had on world events and the effect had by Prince Rainer. As far as I know, Prince Rainer's effect on world events was limited to marrying Grace Kelly (not a bad decision BTW) and holding an annual Formula One race. Did Tony Blair, Gerhard Schroeder and Jacque Chirac all attend Rainer's funeral?
If Jimmy Carter had wanted to go to Prince Rainer's funeral, that would have been fine by me.

Unassisted
04-22-2005, 11:18 AM
I still have read nothing to support the apparent assertion that Carter "deserved" to be part of the official delegation. If America could only send five people, why did Carter deserve to be part of the delegation?Apparently, the White House thought at some point that he was deserving.

From the article in post #6...
"White House spokesman Scott McClellan earlier said the administration had invited Carter to join the delegation but that he would not be going."

RBA
04-22-2005, 11:38 AM
. Did Tony Blair, Gerhard Schroeder and Jacque Chirac all attend Rainer's funeral?
.

zaman.com ("]Prince Rainer's Funeral in Monaco[/url]
By Cihan News Agency
Published: Friday 15, 2005
[url="http://www.zaman.com/)




The funeral of Europe's longest-reigning monarch Prince Rainier, who died on April 6 at 81, is to be held today. Nearly, 10,000 people are expected to attend the ceremony. He will be buried next to his late spouse Princess Grace Kelly. Rainer's son Prince Albert took the throne upon his father's death. Police have closed the streets for the funeral courtege. French President Jacques Chirac, King of Spain Juan Carlos, and Prince Andrew of Britain will attend the ceremony




http://www.zaman.com/?bl=hotnews&alt=&trh=20050415&hn=18481

As I said before nothing more than a political motivated decision to attend. The Sec of State is the best representative to attend.....IN THE ABSENSE OF THE PRESIDENT. Now since the President attended there was no reason for her attendance. Except POLITICAL.

traderumor
04-22-2005, 11:44 AM
Except POLITICAL.Politicians making political decisions. Go figure.

RedsBaron
04-22-2005, 02:01 PM
If it was a political decision, why was Bill Clinton part of the delegation?
By the way, putting your argument in all capital letters doesn't necessarily make it any more persuasive. ;)

RBA
04-22-2005, 02:28 PM
It's not an argument, it's the FACTS. ;)

Bill Clinton was there probably to provide cover for President Bush. Having Bush be with Clinton probably was a good move to have the Europeans think twice about hurling insults and protesting Bush while the much respected Clinton was there. ;)

919191
04-22-2005, 02:33 PM
So if Carter had been included instead of Clinton would you be making the same claims ?

RBA
04-22-2005, 02:36 PM
So if Carter had been included instead of Clinton would you be making the same claims ?

What claims? That it was a political decision for Condi to pick up some Catholic/Chistian God fearing votes in 2008? YES!

919191
04-22-2005, 02:39 PM
And you know for a fact it isn't just because maybe Bush feels more comfortable making this trip with an advisor he trusts?

Chip R
04-22-2005, 02:40 PM
I kinda like the fact that we are sending the team of Bush Sr and Clinton as part opf that delegation. They're a heck of a team aren't they? ;)I think they're joined at the hip these days.

Roy Tucker
04-22-2005, 02:43 PM
I think they're joined at the hip these days.
http://www.jjsedelmaier.com/images/animation/tv_broadcast/snl/antv_snl_15_a.jpg

RedsBaron
04-22-2005, 02:44 PM
(1) If Pope John Paul II had died in 1993; (2) If the American delegation had been limited to five persons; (3) If the delegation had been made up of President Clinton, First Lady Clinton, Secretary of State Albright, former President George H.W. Bush and former President Jimmy Carter; and (4) If former Presidents Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford and/or Roanld Reagan had then leaked to the press that they were upset about being excluded, I would expect the mainstream press would have said they were being "petty" and "self-centered." I would have agreed with that criticism, and I would have thought the delegation to have been appropriate.

traderumor
04-22-2005, 02:49 PM
What claims? That it was a political decision for Condi to pick up some Catholic/Chistian God fearing votes in 2008? YES!Yes, religious, conservative voters everywhere are highly influenced by such shallow observations. :rolleyes:

More than you would like to think base their votes on what a person stands for moreso than where they make appearances. There are plenty of sheep in both parties, but not enough to win an election, or even make a significant difference. For example, if sheep won elections, Kerry would have been a cinch. Fortunately, there were thinking people on both sides of the fence that saw through his political ploys to get votes. I would imagine Rice would experience the same problem if all she did was make political appearances.

Redsfaithful
04-22-2005, 03:11 PM
There are plenty of sheep in both parties, but not enough to win an election, or even make a significant difference. For example, if sheep won elections, Kerry would have been a cinch.

Just goes to show you that both sides think the other is intellectually shallow.

RBA
04-22-2005, 03:12 PM
Yes, religious, conservative voters everywhere are highly influenced by such shallow observations. :rolleyes:

More than you would like to think base their votes on what a person stands for moreso than where they make appearances. There are plenty of sheep in both parties, but not enough to win an election, or even make a significant difference. For example, if sheep won elections, Kerry would have been a cinch. Fortunately, there were thinking people on both sides of the fence that saw through his political ploys to get votes. I would imagine Rice would experience the same problem if all she did was make political appearances.

Are you calling people you voted for Kerry Sheep? Please explain?

To run for President you have to run in the primaries. Like it or not, people vote for people like them. If they didn't we would have a minority elected President by now. Getting the Catholic/Christian Conservative vote alone won't win you the presidency by itself. But it pays dividend to woo them.

traderumor
04-22-2005, 04:05 PM
Are you calling people you voted for Kerry Sheep? Please explain?

To run for President you have to run in the primaries. Like it or not, people vote for people like them. If they didn't we would have a minority elected President by now. Getting the Catholic/Christian Conservative vote alone won't win you the presidency by itself. But it pays dividend to woo them.

I'm saying there are fewer than you think that would be wooed by such things, IMO.

As for your question, I'm not sure what you're asking. The "sheep" reference was for folks who would cast a vote for someone based on them showing up at the pope's funeral. Hope that helps clarify.

GAC
04-22-2005, 04:59 PM
So going to funerals of all heads of states is her job?
Did she go to Prince Rainer's funeral?
I see she selectively does her job as she did her previous job.
Face it folks, this was a calculated political move. Nothing more.

Going to state funerals is a small part of here job, when necessary, as a representative of this nation and our lead diplomat in foreign affairs.

The Pope had alot more influence over the citizens (i.e Catholics) of this country then Prince Rainer. ;)

As RB stated - if this had happened during the Clinton adminstration and Secretary of State Albright went, would you be saying the same, or that it was not her place to be going?

But this will all be revealed in Micheal Moore's new movie - how the Bush administration, in order to boost Condi's chances in 2008, enlisted the help of the CIA and had the Pope poisoned, so as to create a diversion from Iraq and to help promote the image of compassionate conservatism within their policy of foreign diplomacy among Europeans, and thus improve relations. :lol:

RedsBaron
04-22-2005, 05:39 PM
But this will all be revealed in Micheal Moore's new movie - how the Bush administration, in order to boost Condi's chances in 2008, enlisted the help of the CIA and had the Pope poisoned, so as to create a diversion from Iraq and to help promote the image of compassionate conservatism within their policy of foreign diplomacy among Europeans, and thus improve relations. :lol:
Now you've done it GAC! Can't you keep a secret!!!! :bang:

Rojo
04-22-2005, 06:29 PM
Fortunately, there were thinking people on both sides of the fence that saw through his political ploys to get votes.

For the life of me, I can't think of any.

RBA
04-22-2005, 07:24 PM
It's now coming out that the impeachment of President Clinton was nothing more than POLITICAL payback for Nixon according to Henry Hyde. But the same people here who said this isn't POLITICAL are also the same ones that said Clinton's impeachment was not about POLITICS.

ochre
04-22-2005, 07:31 PM
This thread is about Carter not being part of the delegation to John Paul II's funeral right?

RBA
04-22-2005, 07:36 PM
This thread is about Carter not being part of the delegation to John Paul II's funeral right?

Yup.

GAC
04-22-2005, 08:30 PM
This thread is about Carter not being part of the delegation to John Paul II's funeral right?

Where did you get that idea?

And besides, the Pope is not really dead. The Bush adminstration faked this whole thing to embarass Jimmy Carter. :mooner:

RBA
04-22-2005, 08:41 PM
I don't find the attempts at humor doing anything to keep this thread civil. So I won't reply anymore to it.

RedsBaron
04-22-2005, 11:31 PM
Where did you get that idea?

And besides, the Pope is not really dead. The Bush adminstration faked this whole thing to embarass Jimmy Carter. :mooner:
Keep revealing these secrets and you will have to turn in your membership card in THE GREAT RIGHT-WING CONSPIRACY.