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gm
04-19-2005, 04:37 PM
I'm a Viking's fan since the early '70's and I know bunch of you are following the buildup to the draft on Saturday. What's your take on your favorite team's decision-making? Who should they take? What teams are moving up/down? What players' stock is rising/falling?

I'll start with Minnesota. 1st round, 7th pick = Mike Williams, WR from USC. 1st round, 18th pick...depends on what the Packers decide about DE Kampman's offer sheet, tomorrow. May want to trade this pick down, to target an OG (Brown, Virginia?) and/or Mike Nugent, the kicker from OSU

Nexxxt...?

GoReds
04-19-2005, 04:44 PM
Panther's fan since their inception in '95.

The Panthers lost Muhsin Muhammad to FA and have Steve Smith returning from a leg injury last year. Although Keary Colbert played better than expected, more help is needed at WR. The Panthers are HOPING that Tony Williamson (WR-South Carolina) or one of the big three RBs (Benson, Williams, Brown) are available. If not, then the Panthers hope to trade out of the 14 spot and grab and extra pick or two.

Puffy
04-19-2005, 04:53 PM
I am a NY Football Giants fan and I wanna CB with the Giants 43rd pick. Or Castillo the NT from Northwestern.

With their third rounder I want either Fason from Florida, Shelton from Louisville or Marion Barber from Minnesota. Whichever of those runningbacks who lasts until the third round pick.

gm
04-19-2005, 04:55 PM
The Panthers are HOPING that Tony Williamson (WR-South Carolina) or one of the big three RBs (Benson, Williams, Brown) are available. If not, then the Panthers hope to trade out of the 14 spot and grab and extra pick or two.

Good luck on one of those stud RBs slipping. Williamson's your best bet, I've even heard some sources saying that the Viking's brass like Tony more than Mike Williams (game-breaking speed to "replace" Moss) If that's true, Minne may look to trade down to 11/12...OTOH, they may trade up to 2/3 and snag Braylon Edwards, if the price isn't too steep...

Puffy
04-19-2005, 04:56 PM
Good luck on one of those stud RBs slipping. Williamson's your best bet, I've even heard some sources saying that the Viking's brass like Tony more than Mike Williams (game-breaking speed to "replace" Moss)

I don't believe that - I think its smoke so that teams don't trade in front of the Vikes to snatch Williams.

JMHO.

BuckU
04-19-2005, 04:56 PM
Colts fan. Here is my conspiracy theory. Assuming Ricky Williams decides to not return to the Dolphins, the Colts will trade Edgerrin James to the Dolphins for the 2nd pick overall and then draft Ronnie Brown. Brown would not need to immediately start as Dominic Rhodes is a capable back. Then for their 29th pick I’m thinking a cornerback (Marlin Jackson) or a defensive end to play opposite of Freeney (Erasmus James).

Or maybe I’m way off…

gm
04-19-2005, 05:00 PM
I don't believe that - I think its smoke so that teams don't trade in front of the Vikes to snatch Williams.

JMHO.

Hope you're right. I like the threat of MW in the red zone and a more-balanced offense, as opposed to the quick-strike version with Randy

Puffy
04-19-2005, 05:03 PM
Hope you're right. I like the threat of MW in the red zone and a more-balanced offense, as opposed to the quick-strike version with Randy

Mike Williams reminds me a lot of Cris Carter. "All he does is catch touchdowns."

GoReds
04-19-2005, 05:06 PM
If ANY of the three WRs or ANY of the three RBs are available, I'm sure the Panthers would be ecstatic.

Failing that and a suitable trade down, the Panthers might wind up taking an OL.

gm
04-19-2005, 05:07 PM
Mike Williams reminds me a lot of Cris Carter. "All he does is catch touchdowns."

They worked out together this year, and CC has some high praise for MW

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/sports/football/11428431.htm

I wasn't the biggest CC fan in his final days with the Vikes, I heard he contributed to the cliques in the lockerroom. But if his advice helps MW get off to a Moss-like start with Minne next fall? It's ALL good :p:

Steve4192
04-19-2005, 05:11 PM
Colts fan. Here is my conspiracy theory. Assuming Ricky Williams decides to not return to the Dolphins, the Colts will trade Edgerrin James to the Dolphins for the 2nd pick overall and then draft Ronnie Brown.
Everything I have heard to date is that the Colts are only asking for a SECOND rounder and they still aren't getting any takers. There is no way they'll suddenly get the second overall pick for Edge when the Dolphins could just stay put and take a younger, healthier version of him (Ronnie Brown) with their pick.

I'll be surprised if they get a late second rounder for James. I'll be SHOCKED if get anything better.

Puffy
04-19-2005, 05:14 PM
I still remember when Buddy Ryan cut Cris Carter (and his above referenced famous quote). Carter was one team away from being a Giant (parcells loved him and immediately put a claim in on him). The team immediately before the Giants - the Minnesota Vikings.

If only the Giants had a worse record than the Vikings......

gm
04-19-2005, 05:17 PM
If only the Giants had a worse record than the Vikings......

Hopefully, Packer fans will be saying that for years to come re: this Saturday. The Christmas Eve result was painful, but payback's been sweet ever since...

Stewie
04-19-2005, 05:38 PM
For my Eagles, I would really, really like to see them try and trade up from 31 in order to get Clayton. I doubt that will happen, though. I'm, thinking they will trade up, and get Khalif Barnes. I'm cool with that, too. Mel Kiper keeps saying that they will take Matt Jones at 31, but I just can't see that. Maybe with their 2nd pick at #35, but not with their 1st. If they stay at 31, I would guess they take the best lineman available (offense or defense) and probably end up with Matt Roth.

Steve4192
04-19-2005, 05:53 PM
I know a lot of Bengal fans who are openly lusting after some of Philly's extra picks and would love to see the Eagles trade up to #17.

HotCorner
04-19-2005, 06:12 PM
I know a lot of Bengal fans who are openly lusting after some of Philly's extra picks and would love to see the Eagles trade up to #17.

:pray:

WVRed
04-19-2005, 06:19 PM
Colts fan. Here is my conspiracy theory. Assuming Ricky Williams decides to not return to the Dolphins, the Colts will trade Edgerrin James to the Dolphins for the 2nd pick overall and then draft Ronnie Brown. Brown would not need to immediately start as Dominic Rhodes is a capable back. Then for their 29th pick I’m thinking a cornerback (Marlin Jackson) or a defensive end to play opposite of Freeney (Erasmus James).

Or maybe I’m way off…

The latest rumor is Edgerrin James to Tampa Bay for Ronde Barber and a 3rd round pick.(ESPN)

Dom Heffner
04-19-2005, 08:33 PM
I'll start with Minnesota. 1st round, 7th pick = Mike Williams, WR from USC.

Mike Williams is gone with the 5th pick to Tampa Bay. He's a local boy and this town is crazy over him. I think it is a stupid pick- the Bucs need a runner who doesn't fumble- but my money is he goes to Gruden and the Buccaneers.

Stewie
04-19-2005, 08:54 PM
I know a lot of Bengal fans who are openly lusting after some of Philly's extra picks and would love to see the Eagles trade up to #17.

I don't think the Eagles would trade up that high. I was figuring that they would trade their 1st and then their pick at the end of the 2nd to move up somewhere in the low 20s (maybe with Dallas at 22). I'm just thinking that the Bengals would probably want #31 and #35 to get #17, but I don't see the Eagles doing that.

Sabo Fan
04-20-2005, 12:35 AM
I'm a huge Vikings fan myself, and I like the position they're in. My dream draft is to get both Troy Williamson and Shawn Merriman. I really like Merriman, though if the Packers match the offer sheet to Kampman (which I think they will), then you look somewhere else. I think Merriman at #7 and a trade up a couple picks with the 18th and one of the RB's being the bait could get them Williamson. Could also offer another lower round pick to seal the deal. Then in the second round you take Nugent no matter what. I'd be ecstatic if they took Nugent in the 2nd, as I see that being a glaring need on this team.

Redsfaithful
04-20-2005, 02:17 AM
I'm a Bengals fan and I'm just glad this isn't the most important day of the year anymore for Cincinnati fans.

That being said, I certainly hope we take a running back. You just can't ever have enough.

/sarcasm

gm
04-20-2005, 03:05 AM
I'm a huge Vikings fan myself, and I like the position they're in. My dream draft is to get both Troy Williamson and Shawn Merriman. I really like Merriman, though if the Packers match the offer sheet to Kampman (which I think they will), then you look somewhere else. I think Merriman at #7 and a trade up a couple picks with the 18th and one of the RB's being the bait could get them Williamson. Could also offer another lower round pick to seal the deal. Then in the second round you take Nugent no matter what. I'd be ecstatic if they took Nugent in the 2nd, as I see that being a glaring need on this team.

Well, Williamson and Merriman are projected to go somewhere in the early teens. The trick would be to find two willing partners and swap the 7/18 picks for something like 11/12. (Currently, Dallas is at 11 and San Diego is at 12) So you'd offer to move down from 7 with one of them and take the pick(s) they give you and use it to move up from the 18. Not impossible, but very difficult.

I love pass rushers, but Merriman projects more to OLB in a 3-4, and the Vikes have Johnstone to play DE on passing downs. If Minne is looking for a DE at 18, he should be an every-down stud (Spears?)

As much as the Vikings need a kicker, it's hard to believe they'd use their #2 (49) on Nugent. OTOH, it's unlikely that he'll still be on the board when they pick in round 3. So, perhaps a trade down could fill several holes? They could take the 18th pick and parlay it into a couple more 2nd rounders (Raiders, 38/47?) which could then be used to draft Nugent, a guard and a DE/LB. Not as much "pizzazz" as your scenario, but this draft is 50 deep and much of the talent in the 2nd round is comparable with the late 1st round...as long as the team's war room has their board in order and has targeted players that best fit their needs.

Sabo Fan
04-20-2005, 04:29 AM
Well, Williamson and Merriman are projected to go somewhere in the early teens. The trick would be to find two willing partners and swap the 7/18 picks for something like 11/12. (Currently, Dallas is at 11 and San Diego is at 12) So you'd offer to move down from 7 with one of them and take the pick(s) they give you and use it to move up from the 18. Not impossible, but very difficult.

I love pass rushers, but Merriman projects more to OLB in a 3-4, and the Vikes have Johnstone to play DE on passing downs. If Minne is looking for a DE at 18, he should be an every-down stud (Spears?)

As much as the Vikings need a kicker, it's hard to believe they'd use their #2 (49) on Nugent. OTOH, it's unlikely that he'll still be on the board when they pick in round 3. So, perhaps a trade down could fill several holes? They could take the 18th pick and parlay it into a couple more 2nd rounders (Raiders, 38/47?) which could then be used to draft Nugent, a guard and a DE/LB. Not as much "pizzazz" as your scenario, but this draft is 50 deep and much of the talent in the 2nd round is comparable with the late 1st round...as long as the team's war room has their board in order and has targeted players that best fit their needs.

You mentined Spears and he's a guy I really like. I've been trying to decide if he'd still be on the board at 18 and I just don't know. Hard to determine where other teams rank him because there are so many DE's in this draft that could go in the first round. While I listed my dream scenario, if I'm being realistic I doubt the Vikes could pull off getting both Merriman and Williamson. I think you take the best WR available at 7, and then if Spears is there at 18 (and the Packers have matched the offer sheet to Kampman ) you snatch him up.

If Kampman ends up a Viking, which we'll know sometime tomorrow, there are all kinds of options at 18. Trade up, down, take a guy like Thomas Davis, who knows. One scenario I wouldn't rule out is taking Derrick Johnson at #7 (he seems to have fallen a bit) and then using the 18th to get Clayton from OU. Not crazy about that option, but it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. That too may hinge on Kampman's status though.

I'll admit that Nugent at 49 is somewhat of a reach, though I think you'll be hard pressed to find a player in the second round that is a safter bet to pan out. My thinking here is that since the Vikes have two first rounders there is no harm in reaching a bit here (and I stress that you can make the case it wouldn't be a reach). If they didn't have those two first-rounders then I say forget Nugent in the second, but because they do I say go for it and get a great kicker for the next 10-15 years.

GoReds
04-20-2005, 09:16 AM
The Raiders traded Philip Buchanan to the Texans for Houston's 2nd and 3rd round picks. Guess Houston does not have a need for a CB now.

Puffy
04-20-2005, 12:38 PM
The Redskins acquired the 25th pick in the first round from Denver for their third rounder and next years first round pick.

What a horrible trade for the Skins. That first rounder next year could be a top ten pick. Methinks it has to do with the salary cap hell they are expecting to be hit with next year and not being able to afford a first rounder next year, but still, as a Giant fan, i love them giving up a first rounder next year for the bottom of the first round this year when this year is considered a weak draft and next year is considered a BIG TIME draft.

Yeah Daniel Synder!!

WVRed
04-20-2005, 07:08 PM
The Redskins acquired the 25th pick in the first round from Denver for their third rounder and next years first round pick.

What a horrible trade for the Skins. That first rounder next year could be a top ten pick. Methinks it has to do with the salary cap hell they are expecting to be hit with next year and not being able to afford a first rounder next year, but still, as a Giant fan, i love them giving up a first rounder next year for the bottom of the first round this year when this year is considered a weak draft and next year is considered a BIG TIME draft.

Yeah Daniel Synder!!

Wanna hear the funny part?

The Redskins are looking at Jason Campbell(QB-Auburn) with that pick, and Campbell is projected to be a second rounder.

Can you say REACH? I guess they didnt learn from Ramsey.

Chip R
04-20-2005, 07:38 PM
Trade Talk (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBqdGgyMXV0BF9TAzI1NjY0ODI1BHNlYwNl Y2w-?slug=cr-trades042005&prov=yhoo&type=lgns) There is talk of the Fish trading their 1st pick to the Vikes

gm
04-20-2005, 07:54 PM
Trade Talk (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBqdGgyMXV0BF9TAzI1NjY0ODI1BHNlYwNl Y2w-?slug=cr-trades042005&prov=yhoo&type=lgns) There is talk of the Fish trading their 1st pick to the Vikes

You beat me to it. Most of the Minne chatters hope this doesn't happen. Not that they don't like Edwards, they just don't want to give up the #7 AND the #18 to move up. Then there's the motivation factor. Braylon's intangibles leave something to be desired (scouting comments like "...not always mentally on top of his game, loses focus or takes his eye off the ball..." etc.) so giving him a #2-sized contract could negatively affect an already-shaky work ethic.

If I were the Viking's GM, I'd keep the Miami FO on ice until after SF picks the #1. Then offer the #7, #49 and the "mid-round" pick. If the Fish say "no" then let the Browns or Bears pick Edwards and keep those 7/18/49 picks.

If the Vikes do the deal and pick Braylon...here's hoping he has a NFL career even better than their previous great Michigan wideout: Anthony Carter.

gm
04-20-2005, 07:55 PM
So Chip, if the Fish get the 7 and 18, who do you like? RB? QB? Defense?

Chip R
04-20-2005, 07:59 PM
So Chip, if the Fish get the 7 and 18, who do you like? RB? QB? Defense?
All 3. :lol:

GoReds
04-20-2005, 08:06 PM
I expect Miami to be a player for Travis Henry, unless the Cardinals break down and offer more than LJ Shelton in trade. If Miami DOES trade down to 7 and they STILL get Henry, then they could trade down again and grab a couple more picks, which would suit Saban.

Sabo Fan
04-21-2005, 03:20 AM
Trade Talk (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBqdGgyMXV0BF9TAzI1NjY0ODI1BHNlYwNl Y2w-?slug=cr-trades042005&prov=yhoo&type=lgns) There is talk of the Fish trading their 1st pick to the Vikes

If the Vikings do that deal it would be one of the biggest draft day robberies I can remember. Although we are talking about the Vikings here, so anything is possible. I'm not big on Edwards really, not crazy about the attitude and didn't the Vikes just deal away a WR who would occasionally lose focus? Doesn't make sense and I have to believe this is just pre-draft speculation and posturing.

To me, there is no player worth trading up from #7 for. I would be more than happy to stay put and take BPA at that spot. I can see trading down and grabbing an extra pick somewhere, which is fine by me. Trade down a few from 7, get an extra pick and take Williamson there and Spears at 18.

WVRed
04-21-2005, 07:17 AM
Now the Redskins are trying to trade up for Braylon Edwards.

I saw a mock draft on GBNReport where the Bengals ended up trading with the Eagles for their 1st rounder and the Dolphins second rounder. With the first and two second round picks, they took Dan Cody(DE-Oklahoma), Channing Crowder(LB-Florida) and Luis Castillo(DT-Northwestern)

Not bad, IMO.

Stewie
04-21-2005, 11:14 AM
I saw a mock draft on GBNReport where the Bengals ended up trading with the Eagles for their 1st rounder and the Dolphins second rounder. With the first and two second round picks, they took Dan Cody(DE-Oklahoma), Channing Crowder(LB-Florida) and Luis Castillo(DT-Northwestern)

Not bad, IMO.

That's bad, IMO. Of course, I'm looking at it from a different angle. I hope the Eagles don''t give up that much to go up and get Khalif Barnes. I'd be annoyed if they gave up more than their 1st and later 2nd. That would be a good deal for the Bengals.

gm
04-21-2005, 12:06 PM
Trade Talk (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBqdGgyMXV0BF9TAzI1NjY0ODI1BHNlYwNl Y2w-?slug=cr-trades042005&prov=yhoo&type=lgns) There is talk of the Fish trading their 1st pick to the Vikes

Chris Mortenson was on Mike and Mike this morning and said he has checked out the Viking/Dolphin trade rumors and thinks they are false. He doesn't think the Vikes will trade up and wouldn't be surprised if they traded down.

<sigh of relief>

Mutaman
04-21-2005, 08:18 PM
Hopefully, Packer fans will be saying that for years to come re: this Saturday. The Christmas Eve result was painful, but payback's been sweet ever since...

And the ViQueeens have won how many championships? And the ViQueens won how many games in the playoffs last year? And the ViQueeens finished where in the division last year? And who is coming back to play quarterback for Pack this year? And Randy will be playing where next year?

That Kampman offer was a typical cheap little ViQueeen trick, but I expect there will be some payback. Hope Daren stays healthy for you guys.

gm
04-22-2005, 02:43 AM
And the ViQueens won how many games in the playoffs last year?

Minnesota 31, Green Bay 17. January 10, 2005 at Lambeau Field.

Best of luck next fall, you and BF are gonna need it.

Cheeseheads :rolleyes:

Sabo Fan
04-22-2005, 03:16 AM
And the ViQueeens have won how many championships? And the ViQueens won how many games in the playoffs last year? And the ViQueeens finished where in the division last year? And who is coming back to play quarterback for Pack this year? And Randy will be playing where next year?

That Kampman offer was a typical cheap little ViQueeen trick, but I expect there will be some payback. Hope Daren stays healthy for you guys.

Let's take these one at a time:

1. I'll admit, they've won more than the Vikings. Ok, so you get that one.

2. Um, more than the Packers, though it's likely you wouldn't remember since the media forgot who won the game and instead fixated on the Moss mooning incident (which was great by the way).

3. Second, though if you go back and look at the film from those games, you'll see that the Vikes should have won both, but the refs don't like to see Favre lose, so they do what they can to help him out. You may be able to make a case that the Packers won the second game, but the first matchup in Lambeau was an absolute joke. No way did the Packers recover that fumble on the kickoff return. No matter though, because it made the playoff game beat-down that much sweeter.

4. Sure #4 will be back, but who cares? He flat out lost the playoff game for your team last year whether Packer fans want to admit it or not. He's still a good QB, but not good enough anymore to overcome the other deficiencies that team has. Don't worry though I'm sure he's settled comfortably into his role as the second best QB in the NFC North.

5. Oakland. Sure, they'll miss him, though I doubt the Packer secondary will look much better now that he's out of the division. I'll miss seeing Moss smoke Packer CB's twice a game, but I'll live. Besides, our defense will be way better so we won't need to score quite as much. Even so, I don't anticipate a huge dropoff. Let's just say that the Vikings will be just fine without Moss, but will you be able to say the same thing about the Packers when Favre retires next year? Not a chance.

Oh, and on Kampman: not the Vikings fault that the Packers tried to lowball him. He's a solid player and deserves to be paid as such. Too bad he has to go back to Green Bay, he could have been on a good team in 2005.


typical cheap little ViQueeen trick
It's appropriate that you bring up cheap tricks, since I'm sure you have plenty of experience with them considering who your QB is. Don't think the Vikings don't remember the Willie Offord eye-poke incident from last year. Paybacks can be quite unpleasant.

M2
04-22-2005, 04:10 AM
Wanna hear the funny part?

The Redskins are looking at Jason Campbell(QB-Auburn) with that pick, and Campbell is projected to be a second rounder.

Can you say REACH? I guess they didnt learn from Ramsey.

Got to believe Joe Gibbs wants some muscle on the offensive line so he can turn Portis loose.

GoReds
04-22-2005, 02:29 PM
Chiefs traded their 2nd and 5th round picks to the Dolphins for CB Patrick Surtain and the Dolphins 5th round pick.

Looks like the Dolphins may be positioning themselves to trade out of the 2 spot in the draft. Minnesota is a prime candidate as they would like to get Braylon Edwards. The Dolphins would get additional picks and still be able to address the CB position (Rogers/Jones).

Mutaman
04-22-2005, 02:47 PM
Talk about revisionist history. All I know is I visited the Packer Hall of Fame recently and saw Three Lombardi trophys there. How many you got in the twin cities? Are there any trophys named after Bud Grant? And I hate to break it to you guys but even though I know you live for playing the Packers, you're not even our biggest rival- we'd much rather beat the Bears. In any event talk is cheap this time of the year. See you in the fall. Good luck without Randy.

Dan
04-22-2005, 03:53 PM
Chris Mortenson was on Mike and Mike this morning and said he has checked out the Viking/Dolphin trade rumors and thinks they are false. He doesn't think the Vikes will trade up and wouldn't be surprised if they traded down.

<sigh of relief>

I heard that this morning and it sounded like Mortenson was pulling things out of his :mooner: . He'd say "I'm being told <something>, but I think <the opposite> will happen." He did that several times. Methinks he's like the rest of us and doesn't have a clue.

gm
04-22-2005, 05:44 PM
Minnesota is a prime candidate as they would like to get Braylon Edwards. The Dolphins would get additional picks.

Long press conference with Tice and Studwell, yesterday. While they could be blowing smoke they basically shot down this scenario. No way Miami/Cleveland will be getting Minnesota's #7 and #18 for #2 or #3

Packers = circling the drain. You can always tell when all the cheeseheads want to talk about are the glory days. Bret will feel the difference in GB's pass protection with 2 new guards...

GoReds
04-22-2005, 06:27 PM
I don't see Miami getting 2 #1 picks from Minnesota. But I can see them getting #7 and a third round pick from the Vikings.

WVRed
04-22-2005, 06:40 PM
I don't see Miami getting 2 #1 picks from Minnesota. But I can see them getting #7 and a third round pick from the Vikings.

7 and a 2nd rounder is more realistic.

Red Leader
04-22-2005, 06:58 PM
7 and a 2nd rounder is more realistic.

I just can't see MINN moving up (and trading an additional pick to move up) to get Edwards. I'm a big Michigan fan, and I'd love Dante to be chucking the ball to Edwards all year, but I think they would rather have Troy Williamson from South Carolina, and keep their picks.

gm
04-23-2005, 04:15 AM
I just can't see MINN moving up (and trading an additional pick to move up) to get Edwards. I'm a big Michigan fan, and I'd love Dante to be chucking the ball to Edwards all year, but I think they would rather have Troy Williamson from South Carolina, and keep their picks.

We'll find out, soon enough. Williamson at 7 would be a reach, but the Vikes could trade the pick down for him, somewhere around 12-14. I still like Spears at 18, but he might be off the board so a trade up could be in order.

I like Edwards less each time he opens his mouth and flashes his bling-bling. I've heard he's real hyper on gameday and that's why he drops passes until he "settles in..." I'd still rather take Mike Williams @ 7

May all of your favorite teams pick the perfect players...except for you cheeseheads, no soup for you :evil:

Joseph
04-23-2005, 12:22 PM
Since no one has really spoken for my Bengals, I'll say I'd really like to see Thomas Davis, the S from Georgia, unless they can indeed make a trade for an extra 2nd or 3rd rd pick.

KittyDuran
04-23-2005, 12:35 PM
Sort of off topic - but I'm heading down to PBS for the open house to look at season tickets [not that I'm going to buy any]. Did it last year and it was fun - but it was a sunny day, too. I'll wear my Reds poncho if it starts to rain... :devil:

Joseph
04-23-2005, 12:55 PM
Have fun Kitty, don't get yourself into any trouble ;)

OnBaseMachine
04-23-2005, 01:26 PM
49ers take Alex Smith first overall.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 01:39 PM
interesting draft ... teams at the top would like to trade out but nobody really wants them.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 01:40 PM
Ronnie Brown to Miami

GAC
04-23-2005, 01:46 PM
My Browns are gonna take Edwards ;)

Super_Barry11
04-23-2005, 01:57 PM
Yay, Braylon Edwards!!! :thumbup: I love that guy!! I'm so excited!!! :D :D :D :D :D Go Browns!! :)

Hoosier Red
04-23-2005, 02:23 PM
:p:
My Browns are gonna take Edwards ;)
If only they had someone to throw to him
:p: :devil:

paintmered
04-23-2005, 02:24 PM
Three running backs in the first five picks :eek:

Mutaman
04-23-2005, 03:26 PM
I just saw the Mike Tice being interviewed. I thought he was in jail for scalping superbowl tickets.

KronoRed
04-23-2005, 03:36 PM
Three running backs in the first five picks :eek:

Running games win championships.

I dunno about Smith number 1, he's a good QB, but I wonder about him in the NFL

GIK
04-23-2005, 03:45 PM
There will be a lot of points scored by Detroit this year. :)

Stewie
04-23-2005, 04:15 PM
The definite highlight of the draft for me so far was seeing PacMan Jones' jewelry. That giant diamond PacMan necklace he had was insane. His watch probably blinded a few people as well.

Stewie
04-23-2005, 04:17 PM
I dunno about Smith number 1, he's a good QB, but I wonder about him in the NFL

I like Smith. He's a smart kid and should be a good QB. He reminds me more of a Tom Brady type of QB - not the most skilled guy in the world, but won't make mistakes and will make enough plays to give his team a good chance to win.

rdiersin
04-23-2005, 04:49 PM
Bengals select David Pollack.

Reds Fanatic
04-23-2005, 04:50 PM
Bengals select David Pollack DE from Georgia with their first pick. Pollack was a three time all-American with Georgia. I like the pick.

paintmered
04-23-2005, 04:52 PM
Bengals select David Pollack DE from Georgia with their first pick. Pollack was a three time all-American with Georgia. I like the pick.

I like the pick too. Pollack is a big time player who brings versatility, a big time work ethic and intensity to this team.

:thumbup:

Playadlc
04-23-2005, 04:52 PM
I wonder if the Bengals will keep him at DE. He looks like he might be a better fit at LB.

Reds Fanatic
04-23-2005, 04:57 PM
Got this from the Bengals website about Pollack.

Bengals tab versatile Pollack
4-22-05, 3:45 p.m.
BY GEOFF HOBSON
After watching safety Thomas Davis end up in Carolina three picks before, the Bengals stayed with defense and chose Georgia teammate David Pollack with the 17th pick in Saturday’s first round of the NFL Draft.

The 6-2, 265-pound Pollack, a highly decorated end who was named the nation’s best defensive player and best defensive lineman, is versatile and athletic enough to play a couple of different spots for head coach Marvin Lewis. In fact, the Bengals have listed him as a linebacker.

His 36 career sacks from the end spot are a school record, but his times in the agility drills at the scouting combine rival those of a defensive back. He has been compared, at times, to Peter Boulware, a college end who became a Pro Bowl outside linebacker for Lewis when he was the defensive coordinator in Baltimore, and Lewis obviously thinks Pollack can make the same adjustment.

Lewis is always seeking work ethic and productivity and he’s getting both in Pollack, the first defensive first-rounder in the Lewis era. Pollack and Heisman Trophy winner Herschel Walker are the only players in school history to be three-time All-Americans. He reportedly stayed behind after being named the MVP in the last Outback Bowl with three sacks to continue workouts

ESPN’s Mel Kiper says: “You have to admire his intensity, work eithic, and natural pass rush instincts.”

Ourlads Scouting Services says: “Explosive, high motor, relentless player. . .Has the ability to shed offensive blockers and may be a linebacker projection like Tedy Bruschi.”

Reds Fanatic
04-23-2005, 04:58 PM
I wonder if the Bengals will keep him at DE. He looks like he might be a better fit at LB.

Marvin says that they expect Pollack to play at LB and move to DE in pass rush situations.

Puffy
04-23-2005, 05:28 PM
Matt Jones goes at 21 to Jacksonville. I love it. He is a risk pick, but I was worried the Eagles were going to get him and if he becomes what I think he will (Antonio Gates) I am glad he is not in the Giants division.

WVRed
04-23-2005, 05:33 PM
Suprise of the day-Aaron Rodgers is still on the board.

Puffy
04-23-2005, 05:33 PM
Suprise of the day-Aaron Rodgers is still on the board.

Green Bay is gonna take him right here.

Joseph
04-23-2005, 05:38 PM
If Pollack is moved to LB, then I like it, if not, then I think its a regrettable pick. He doesn't have the size to be an NFL DE.

KronoRed
04-23-2005, 05:40 PM
I'm not sure on Jones at 21 for Jacksonville, too much if a risk if you ask me.

WVRed
04-23-2005, 05:46 PM
Puffy called it, Aaron Rodgers to GB.

I bet Brett Favre is none too happy.

Puffy
04-23-2005, 05:48 PM
Puffy called it, Aaron Rodgers to GB.

I bet Brett Favre is none too happy.

I bet Favre is real happy. He almost retired this past year, and no one is gonna push him out the door. So he plays for another year or two, retires and bang, Rodgers takes over.

Mutaman
04-23-2005, 06:18 PM
As a Cheesehead I have somewhat mixed feelings about the Rodgers' pick. With the Favre window closing, the time is now and "now" means help on defense. But I guess you can't pass the chance to get a kid with this talent at pick number 24. Plus no outstanding defensive talent warranting a number1 pick. Defensive needs can be addressed in the next few rounds. I guess it was the right move. I still won't be surprised if Brett plays a few more years.

SunDeck
04-23-2005, 06:57 PM
Pollack = good pick.
I can't imagine what it would be like to hit a hole and have that guy explode into my face from a linebacker spot.

paintmered
04-23-2005, 08:47 PM
Bengals second round pick:

Odell Thurman (ILB) - Georgia

WVRed
04-23-2005, 10:45 PM
Bengals second round pick:

Odell Thurman (ILB) - Georgia

I like this pick. Bengals defense is shaping up nicely.

Go Marvin!

Reds Fanatic
04-23-2005, 11:03 PM
Bengals third round pick:

Chris Henry WR from West Virginia

OnBaseMachine
04-23-2005, 11:38 PM
Good pick. Henry is a headcase considered to be a first-round talent.

WVRed
04-23-2005, 11:57 PM
Good pick. Henry is a headcase considered to be a first-round talent.

I love this pick, and im a Marshall fan.

The guy is an athletic freak compared to Randy Moss in terms of talent. However, like Moss, he has a tendency to be known as a headcase.

There is no doubt in my mind that if Henry had stayed in college he would have been a top 10 pick in next years draft.

OnBaseMachine
04-24-2005, 12:01 AM
Denver picks Mo Clarett with the 101th pick of the night. Good fit for him. I could run for 1000 yards in that Denver offense.

WVRed
04-24-2005, 12:10 AM
Denver picks Mo Clarett with the 101th pick of the night. Good fit for him. I could run for 1000 yards in that Denver offense.

Clarett will be the beneficiary of cut blocking, assuming he even gets to compete for a job.

Denver RBs are overrated IMO. Look at Clinton Portis last year.

Chip R
04-24-2005, 12:26 AM
Clarett will be the beneficiary of cut blocking, assuming he even gets to compete for a job.

Denver RBs are overrated IMO. Look at Clinton Portis last year.They are supposed to be calling those cut blocks penalties next season. Shanahan probably only took him just to piss Al Davis off. ;)

WVRed
04-24-2005, 10:33 AM
Ok, new game-

1.Rate your teams draft.

Bengals draft-I give them an A, hands down. Pollack is a defensive end who can move to outside linebacker and give us a valued pass rusher on third down.

Thurman gives us an inside presence in case Webster cant recover and also provides insurance in case Brian Simmons doesnt re-sign next season.

Henry could very well be the steal of the draft. He is a headcase, but given the players Marvin has coached in the past(*cough* cough* Ray Lewis *cough*), I believe he knows what he is doing. First round talent in the third round.

2.Winners and Losers.

Winners-

1.Vikings-Of the three receivers, I believe Troy Williamson has the best chance of making an impact. Braylon Edwards has nobody to throw the ball to him, and Mike Williams is in an offense that features Kevin Jones, Charles Rogers, and Roy Williams. Williamson will be at best the no 2 option behind Burleson and has Culpepper for a QB. Erasmus James could be a steal if he stays healthy.

2.Browns-Got arguably the best player in the draft, and a receiver better than anyone they have drafted in the past. Possibly landed the next great MAC QB in the third round in Charlie Frye. Brodney Poole could be a contributor as well.

Losers-

1.Saints-Traded up with the Texans to make a reach on OL Jamaal Brown.

2.Chargers-You really cant call them losers with the picks they made(Merriman and Castillo), but the fact that they needed a WR and none were available to them puts them here. Not to mention the precedent that it doesnt matter if you do steroids, it wont affect your draft status.

SandyD
04-24-2005, 11:38 AM
re: Saints draft.

My brother, who follows the Saints much more closely that I do, said a few weeks ago that the Saints would likely take an OL in the first round even tho defense is the greatest need.

The Saints went into the draft wanting either Brown or LB Thomas Davis.

From this morning's paper, the Saints believed that division rival Carolina would take Brown at 14 and that KC would take Davis at 15. That's why they traded up.

The past couple of years, other teams have snagged players the Saints targetted ahead of them, and they didn't want that to happen this year.

Now, whether Brown lives up to their expectations remains to be seen.

edit: OL is a big need as well. Last year's OL should have been called the "False Starters."

Reds Fanatic
04-24-2005, 01:08 PM
Bengals 4th round pick:

Eric Ghiaciuc C Central Michigan

Reds Fanatic
04-24-2005, 02:44 PM
Bengals 5th round pick:

Adam Kieft OT Central Michigan

Reds Fanatic
04-24-2005, 04:23 PM
Bengals 6th round pick:

Tab Perry WR UCLA

CTA513
04-24-2005, 06:10 PM
Bengals 7th round pick: Jonathan Fanene 6-3 290 DE Utah

CTA513
04-24-2005, 06:33 PM
Bengals 6th round pick:

Tab Perry WR UCLA

Heres parts of an interview from Bengals.com

Q: What does it feel like to be picked by the Bengals in the sixth round?
“I was very excited. All of my family is from Cincinnati. I had the chance to work out with Chad Johnson and T.J. Houshmandzadeh. I know it’s going to be fun playing with the Bengals. They are definitely a program on the rise.”

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Who are the family members you have in Cincinnati?
“Everybody. I have everyone from my mom and dad to aunts, uncles, nieces and nephews and everybody."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Where were you born?
“I was born in Pennsylvania. I think my mom was transferred there for a job and then moved back to Cincinnati. We lived in Avondale.”

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Do you feel the Bengals are getting a steal in the sixth round?
“Definitely. I’m going to make all 30-plus teams pay for not picking me. I’m excited about the Bengals picking me. I think I’m going to fit well in their system. I think we’re going to have a great receiving corps.”

WVRed
04-24-2005, 06:55 PM
On a side note, the Patriots took Matt Cassel, the BACKUP QB to Matt Leinart at USC.

I know Belicheck has his players, but between this pick and Logan Mankins(OL projected to go 3rd round but NE took in the first), this is pretty comical.

MuEconRedLeg
04-24-2005, 10:41 PM
I like the Bengals draft in total.

I think Pollack and Thurman will turn into solid players.

Not sold on Henry, but maybe Marvin can control him. If he can watch out.

As far as picks 4,5,6,7 go, I like using the later rounds for role players. It looks like both the O-linemen can contribute as subs and spot starters this season, and Perry can return kicks. And, another warm body on the D-line is always a plus.

I give the draft an A!

Mutaman
04-25-2005, 12:36 AM
i don't know anything about the Bengals, but I saw Pollack play in the Orange Bowl and he was absolutely terrific. I can't remember the last time I saw one player have that big an impact on a game. I was wondering who would draft him.

MuEconRedLeg
04-25-2005, 08:39 AM
On a side note, the Patriots took Matt Cassel, the BACKUP QB to Matt Leinart at USC.

I have been pondering this. I am wonding if Belicheck made this pick for Cassel's usefulness on the scout team. The guy probably ran every offense known to man at USC. He might just have some value by giving "good looks" to the Pat's D.


i don't know anything about the Bengals, but I saw Pollack play in the Orange Bowl and he was absolutely terrific. I can't remember the last time I saw one player have that big an impact on a game. I was wondering who would draft him.

That's what I like to hear

Puffy
04-25-2005, 12:21 PM
Sorry to all the Minnesota fans, but I see all this smoke about the Vikings having the best draft and a great offseason, yada, yada. I don't see any of it.

Williamson has bust written all over him. He is a combine monster who didn't have the college numbers because of SC's offense. Combine monsters are the ones who burn teams (hello Mike Mamula).

Ersamus James - not impressed. Wisconsin players tend not to produce at the next level, plus his numbers don't jump out at you either. He showed up big in some games, and not at all in others. That raises a flag to me.

Then, losing Moss is gonna effect them way more than people are saying. I know when the Giants played the Vikes last year without Moss their offense scared me not one bit, and it showed when the Giants spanked them pretty good in the dome.

Now Dallas - Dallas had a great draft in my opinion.

Stewie
04-25-2005, 01:01 PM
Williamson has bust written all over him. He is a combine monster who didn't have the college numbers because of SC's offense. Combine monsters are the ones who burn teams (hello Mike Mamula).

.

That brings back some bad memories. The mas was a god in Madden '99, yet so horrible in real life.

Puffy
04-25-2005, 01:03 PM
That brings back some bad memories. The mas was a god in Madden '99, yet so horrible in real life.

Sorry Stewie!

If it makes you feel any better Ernie Accorsi drafts a workout monster every year and he never works out (Shiancoe, Sean Bennett, Brian Alford, Joe Montgomery, Jeff Hatch).

CougarQuest
04-25-2005, 01:14 PM
Bengals signed Undrafted Free Agents:

Patrick Body-S-Toledo 6'1" 200 lbs(4.25 - 40, 42-1/2" vertical jump)
Ben Wilkerson-C-LSU 6'3" 300 lbs
Andrew Bulman-DT-Kansas State 6'3" 285 lbs
Steve Vieira-OT-UCLA 6'6" 318 lbs
Sale`Key-WR-Idaho State 6'5" 216 lbs

Stewie
04-25-2005, 01:19 PM
Sorry Stewie!

If it makes you feel any better Ernie Accorsi drafts a workout monster every year and he never works out (Shiancoe, Sean Bennett, Brian Alford, Joe Montgomery, Jeff Hatch).

It's cool. Once Ray Rhodes left, the bad drafts went with him. I still remember when he took Jon Harris in the first round in '97 because he was a tall d-lineman. Shortly after the draft Harris said he was shocked he was drafted so high. Always good when your first rounder didn't think he was good enough to be a first rounder. Shockingly, he was a bust. The Andy Reid era has seen better usage of draft picks. Reid makes some mistakes (#cough#Freddie Mitchell#cough#), but he at least learns from them.

But anyways, I agree with you in that I'm not so sure about all they hype that Minnesota has been getting. I like Mike Williams a lot more than Williamson, even if Williamson is supposedly a better fit in their offense. They had a decent draft, but they could have done better.

Puffy
04-25-2005, 01:24 PM
Bengals signed Undrafted Free Agents:

Patrick Body-S-Toledo 6'1" 200 lbs(4.25 - 40, 42-1/2" vertical jump)
Ben Wilkerson-C-LSU 6'3" 300 lbs
Andrew Bulman-DT-Kansas State 6'3" 285 lbs
Steve Vieira-OT-UCLA 6'6" 318 lbs
Sale`Key-WR-Idaho State 6'5" 216 lbs

Ben Wilkerson injured his achilles and probably won't play all year.

Having said that, if he heals properly, what a pick up. He was a first rounder before the injury and is a top notch linemen. Could turn out great for the Bengals.

CougarQuest
04-25-2005, 01:33 PM
Ben Wilkerson injured his achilles and probably won't play all year.

Having said that, if he heals properly, what a pick up. He was a first rounder before the injury and is a top notch linemen. Could turn out great for the Bengals.

I like the Body and Wilkerson pickups. I figure Wilkerson will be on the injured or practice squad and tucked away for the following season.

There's a certain Safety from Georgia Tech that I hope the Bengals sign.

gonelong
04-25-2005, 01:59 PM
Ben Wilkerson injured his achilles and probably won't play all year.

Having said that, if he heals properly, what a pick up. He was a first rounder before the injury and is a top notch linemen. Could turn out great for the Bengals.

I was wondering why he wasn't drafted. Nice work getting him in the fold.

GL

Red Leader
04-25-2005, 02:12 PM
There's a certain Safety from Georgia Tech that I hope the Bengals sign.

There's a certain hard hitting cornerback / safety from Michigan that declared early and, to my amazement, no one drafted, that I would like the Bengals to pick up as well.

Danny Serafini
04-25-2005, 02:12 PM
Body has a real shot at making the team. I've seen him a few times at UT, very productive player. Gritty, hard-nosed, definitely a Marvin type. Maybe someone would've drafted him if he hadn't smashed his arm in the Motor City Bowl. Considering safety is a weak spot right now he could make it.

Red Leader
04-25-2005, 02:13 PM
There's a certain hard hitting cornerback / safety from Michigan that declared early and, to my amazement, no one drafted, that I would like the Bengals to pick up as well.

Nevermind. Already taken:

WDFN Sports Radio 1130 AM in Detroit reports the Arizona Cardinals have signed undrafted rookie free agent S Ernest Shazor (Michigan) to a two-year deal. Financial terms were not disclosed

Mutaman
04-26-2005, 12:13 AM
Wisconsin players tend not to produce at the next level



Yeah that Lee Evans was a real stiff as a first round pick last year, 48 catches for over 800 yards and 9 TouchDowns. I think the Bills were pretty happy with his production.

Steve4192
04-26-2005, 12:43 AM
I know Belicheck has his players, but between this pick and Logan Mankins(OL projected to go 3rd round but NE took in the first), this is pretty comical.
Logan Mankins is a player. Mankins, Evan Mathis (G - Alabama), Chris Spencer (C- Mississippi), and the Bengals own Eric Ghiaciuc (C - Central Michigan) were by far the most athletic interior linemen in this draft. For teams that value athletic guys that can move and get into the second level, those four guys were at the top of the draft board.

Considering the other three guys went off the board at #26, #32, and #79, the Bengals were extremely lucky to get Ghiaciuc at #119. That said, I don't get the Kieft pick. He strikes me as an immobile statue who's saving grace is the fact that he occupies three zip codes. I just don't see any pro potential in him.

Puffy
04-26-2005, 10:43 AM
Yeah that Lee Evans was a real stiff as a first round pick last year, 48 catches for over 800 yards and 9 TouchDowns. I think the Bills were pretty happy with his production.

I'm sorry - did I say all Wisconsin players don't produce? Did I say that anywhere?

Look up the word "tend" sometime. Dictionaries are great tools.

Mutaman
04-26-2005, 01:56 PM
I'm sorry - did I say all Wisconsin players don't produce? Did I say that anywhere?

Look up the word "tend" sometime. Dictionaries are great tools.

The fact that Evans was probably the best pick of the 2004 draft,in and of itself makes your statement inane. Be that as it may, check out :

Chris Chambers
Mark Tausher
Al Johnson
Troy Vincent
Casey Rabach
Alex Lewis

Not much of a "trend" at least the way its defined in my Websters. Ron Dayne does not equal "trend". The problem with this time of the year is that anybody can buy a football magazine at the supermarket, and then think it makes them an expert.

Puffy
04-26-2005, 02:29 PM
Chris Chambers
Mark Tausher
Al Johnson
Troy Vincent
Casey Rabach
Alex Lewis

Not much of a "trend" at least the way its defined in my Websters. Ron Dayne does not equal "trend". The problem with this time of the year is that anybody can buy a football magazine at the supermarket, and then think it makes them an expert.

How about:

Dayne
Fletcher
Mcintosh
Aaron Gibson
Wendall Bryant

Seems like a trend when half your first round draft choices don't work out.

And if you're inferring that all I do is buy a magazine at a supermarket and think I'm an expert, well, you don't know me one bit and I'm not getting in this pissing contest with you.

CougarQuest
04-26-2005, 03:21 PM
Bengals signed:
Herana-Daze Jones-S-Indiana
Josh Haldi-QB-Northern Illinois (camp fodder)
Rich Demers-FB-UMass

Rumor is flyiing that they also signed Jeremy Thomas-FB-Georgia

Sabo Fan
04-26-2005, 03:22 PM
The fact that Evans was probably the best pick of the 2004 draft,in and of itself makes your statement inane. Be that as it may, check out :

Chris Chambers
Mark Tausher
Al Johnson
Troy Vincent
Casey Rabach
Alex Lewis

Not much of a "trend" at least the way its defined in my Websters. Ron Dayne does not equal "trend". The problem with this time of the year is that anybody can buy a football magazine at the supermarket, and then think it makes them an expert.

And I suppose being a Packer fan makes you an expert?

If there were any doubt about your NFL Draft acumen, one only needs to look at your comment about Lee Evans. While he is a very good player, he's far from the best pick of that draft. Heck, he's not even the best WR to come out of that draft, as that honor goes to Roy Williams or Mark Clayton.

Mutaman
04-26-2005, 05:49 PM
While he is a very good player, he's far from the best pick of that draft. Heck, he's not even the best WR to come out of that draft, as that honor goes to Roy Williams or Mark Clayton.

While Willliams and Clayton were good picks, Evans had the better year. He had a major impact on changing the Bills from a bad team to a team with 9 wins. He really improved as the season progressed, and made some big plays down the stretch in games that meant something. He proved he was a playmaker and a big game player. Willliams and Clayton played in weaker divisions for teams that were never in the race. They may turn out to be better receivers, but Evans had the better year.

ochre
04-26-2005, 05:53 PM
While Willliams and Clayton were good picks, Evans had the better year. He had a major impact on changing the Bills from a bad team to a team with 9 wins. He really improved as the season progressed, and made some big plays down the stretch in games that meant something. He proved he was a playmaker and a big game player. Willliams and Clayton played in weaker divisions for teams that were never in the race. They may turn out to be better receivers, but Evans had the better year.
You know Buffalo's offense was terrible and their defense was stellar right?

Red Leader
04-26-2005, 06:00 PM
Yea, Mark Clayton had almost 1200 yards (1193) and 7 TD's, but Evans was better with 843 yards and 9 TD???

How does that happen?

Sabo Fan
04-26-2005, 06:11 PM
While Willliams and Clayton were good picks, Evans had the better year. He had a major impact on changing the Bills from a bad team to a team with 9 wins. He really improved as the season progressed, and made some big plays down the stretch in games that meant something. He proved he was a playmaker and a big game player. Willliams and Clayton played in weaker divisions for teams that were never in the race. They may turn out to be better receivers, but Evans had the better year.

So despite inferior statistics, you still think Evans had a better year?

Evans: 48 catches, 843 yards, 9 TD's
Williams: 54 catches, 817 yards, 8 TD's
Clayton: 80 catches, 1193 yards, 7 TD's

You can say that Evans had a better year than Williams, but I want Roy Williams on my team over Evans for the short and long term. Clayton blows both of them out of the water though.

I think if you take a closer look at the numbers, you'll see that Evans had his best games against the Dolphins, Bengals, and 49ers, two of whom ranked in the bottom 3rd of the NFL defensively last year. Basically Evans beat up on the defensively challenged teams while he dissapeared against those with superior defenses. In eight games he was held to two catches or less.

I think Evans will be a solid reciever, but basically he's Derrick Mason, one of those second-tier WR's. I bet that in a couple years Williams will be the top WR in the game and Clayton won't be far behind.

Mutaman
04-26-2005, 06:52 PM
In the 4 games played in December, all of which the Bills had to win to have a chance at the playoffs, Evans caught 6 TD passes. Not too shabby. In three of the four games he had over 90 yard in receptions. To me thats a lot more significant than the fact that Clayton caught a lot of passes in a few meaningless games ( over 140 yds in losses to San Diego and St Louis).