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Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 03:03 PM
Perisho in to face Griffey, Casey.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 03:03 PM
Griffey walks to lead off the inning. Best #2 hitter ever.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 03:06 PM
Casey swinging at everything under the sun, and stretches an 0-2 count into a 6 pitch strikeout.

1 out, one on, and here comes a new pitcher? Jones? Reidling?

Reds Nd2
04-23-2005, 03:07 PM
Jones

ws1990reds
04-23-2005, 03:07 PM
Surprisingly Freel grounds into double play...did he forget to run (dare I say?). It was a slow chopper to 3rd near the bag and a soft throw to 2nd. Wow

Ryan Freel presents to me symptoms of an attitude problem. Can't really disagree with him, since he's not an everyday player.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 03:09 PM
Jones in to face Randa, who flies out to RF for the 2nd out.

Griffey slides hard into 1st base and looks like he jams his leg.....but looks okay so far.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 03:10 PM
Lopez with an 0-2 single to center field, Griffey to 2nd with 2 outs and Kearns coming up.

Matt700wlw
04-23-2005, 03:10 PM
Lopez is going to hit his way out of the lineup ;)

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 03:11 PM
Wagner up in the pen for the Reds.

ws1990reds
04-23-2005, 03:12 PM
Back to the basement the Reds go. :thumbdown

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 03:13 PM
Kearns goes down on strikes on a 3-2 count. Gotta come through with something there.

On to the bottom of the 8th.

KronoRed
04-23-2005, 03:13 PM
Let the Kearns bashing begin in here

JuniorGriffey30
04-23-2005, 03:13 PM
<edited> kearns is so late on the fastball

Kc61
04-23-2005, 03:14 PM
Boy, the Reds strike out a lot.

JuniorGriffey30
04-23-2005, 03:14 PM
Why couldnt Jones pitch like that when he was with us

M2
04-23-2005, 03:15 PM
<edited> kearns is so late on the fastball

Jones chewed him up. Ouch.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 03:15 PM
Whew. Griffey gets a late break, but Lopez makes a nice play on a pop-up to short center by Cabrera. 1 out.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 03:16 PM
Why couldnt Jones pitch like that when he was with us

He pretty much did.

OSURedLeg
04-23-2005, 03:16 PM
Lopez showed some great range on that fly out. Sure would like to see that on a consistent basis from the short stop position.

OnBaseMachine
04-23-2005, 03:16 PM
I hope this game doesn't end with Dunn on the bench.

ws1990reds
04-23-2005, 03:17 PM
Griffey really doesn't belong in CF. The guy has lost a couple of steps, IMO. He reacts slower to sinking flys to the shallow parts of the outfield, his throws aren't as accurate as they should be for a CF. I'm glad that his hamstrings are better, but he ain't CF material. Wake up, Miley!

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 03:18 PM
Weathers strikes out JuanE

JuniorGriffey30
04-23-2005, 03:18 PM
as soon as this game is ova gonna go watch philly against pistons

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 03:19 PM
.....and walks Lo Duca.

JuniorGriffey30
04-23-2005, 03:19 PM
Griffey really doesn't belong in CF. The guy has lost a couple of steps, IMO. He reacts slower to sinking flys to the shallow parts of the outfield, his throws aren't as accurate as they should be for a CF. I'm glad that his hamstrings are better, but he ain't CF material. Wake up, Miley!His throws are on target he made one error and im not sure it even was an error because Randa tried to make the tag and catch at the same time

JuniorGriffey30
04-23-2005, 03:20 PM
nice save by larue

JuniorGriffey30
04-23-2005, 03:21 PM
K

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 03:21 PM
....and strikes out Lowell. Weathers with a nice 2 innings:

2 IP 0 H 0 ER 1 BB 3 K

Reds Nd2
04-23-2005, 03:22 PM
Line on Weathers:

H K's BB's R IP
0 3 1 0 2

ws1990reds
04-23-2005, 03:23 PM
Why couldnt Jones pitch like that when he was with us

Hint: look toward the guy sitting on Dave Miley's right. :p:

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 03:23 PM
The pitcher-fearing lineup of Aurilia-LaRue-PH (Dunn) is comin' up to save us from going 0-2 on the roadtrip.

westofyou
04-23-2005, 03:23 PM
Dunn is 8th in MLB in OPS .286/.407/.694/1.101 and with 3 outs left he has no ABs in a game the Reds have trailed since the first.

That's a darn shame.

ws1990reds
04-23-2005, 03:24 PM
His throws are on target he made one error and im not sure it even was an error because Randa tried to make the tag and catch at the same time

Talking about the season, here. Think long term.

ws1990reds
04-23-2005, 03:26 PM
I'm sure the guys really do like Dave Miley, but I'm betting they're even more confused by Dave Miley.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 03:26 PM
Aurilia with a weak ground ball to SS. 1 out.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 03:28 PM
LaRue with no chance. Ks for the 2nd out.

westofyou
04-23-2005, 03:29 PM
Aurilia with a weak ground ball to SS. 1 out.

On a ball that was outside on a 2-2 count. the swing of a man who averages 1 BB every 12.5 ab's for his career.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 03:30 PM
Dunn PHs for Weathers.

Reaches out and doubles in the left-field gap with 2 outs.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 03:30 PM
Good thing Miley saved Dunn for the right moment.

M2
04-23-2005, 03:30 PM
I love Adam Dunn. He's on pace for a zillion TB.

OnBaseMachine
04-23-2005, 03:33 PM
I love Adam Dunn. He's on pace for a zillion TB.

Good thing he was on the bench today. ;)

Please lock Dunn up long term!

Matt700wlw
04-23-2005, 03:33 PM
Griffey can make everybody happy right now...

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 03:33 PM
ohhhh boy. Here we go again.

Freel singles to left, bringing up Griffey with the last AB of the game for the 3rd game in the row.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 03:33 PM
Griffey can make everybody happy right now...or maybe not

Trace's Daddy
04-23-2005, 03:33 PM
Send Freel to 2nd?

Super_Barry11
04-23-2005, 03:34 PM
Griffey's gonna do it this time... GO GRIFF!!! :thumbup:

Reds Nd2
04-23-2005, 03:34 PM
I love Adam Dunn. He's on pace for a zillion TB.

At least. :)

ws1990reds
04-23-2005, 03:34 PM
Damn good AB by Freel. Let's see whether Junior has turned the corner.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 03:34 PM
Please lock Dunn up long term!Far more likely to trade him for little

LvJ
04-23-2005, 03:34 PM
This is your game, Jr. Make us proud.

ws1990reds
04-23-2005, 03:35 PM
Junior way behind on an 86mph pitch.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 03:36 PM
he was WAAAY behind that fastball

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 03:36 PM
Freel to 2nd. a single gets it done here.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 03:37 PM
look out for the split

LvJ
04-23-2005, 03:37 PM
Good AB ... just single Jr. Bloop suffin.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 03:37 PM
Whiffey goes down.

ws1990reds
04-23-2005, 03:38 PM
Junior has a hitch in his swing. He's doing some sort of "double-pump" of the bat, before swinging. I wonder if it's because he lacks upper-body strength and is trying to get something more behind his swing.

JUNIOR IS DONE, FOLKS. OVERMATCHED BY FASTBALLS THAT DON'T EVEN REACH THE 90'S. :thumbdown

LvJ
04-23-2005, 03:38 PM
:-/

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 03:38 PM
...or not. Griffey's head was so far in the 1st base dugout as he ends the game.

K by Mota and the Marlins win 4-2.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 03:38 PM
The broom is out

TeamCasey
04-23-2005, 03:39 PM
Dagnabbit

Super_Barry11
04-23-2005, 03:39 PM
Well, crap. I could literally feel my heart pounding there. Really wanted that one. :(

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 03:39 PM
W: D. Willis 4-0
L: M. Belisle 1-2
S: G. Mota 2

CTA513
04-23-2005, 03:39 PM
The broom is out

The Reds should just go home now and not even worry about tomorrows game.

RedTeamGo!
04-23-2005, 03:39 PM
griffey sucksssss :thumbdown

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 03:40 PM
The broom is out

lol if we can't beat Brian Moehler......

KronoRed
04-23-2005, 03:40 PM
Tough loss..oh well.

paintmered
04-23-2005, 03:40 PM
:deadhorse



5. .......It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 03:41 PM
Well, crap. I could literally feel my heart pounding there. Really wanted that one. :(Mine wasn't. I'm sorry but there wasn't much suspense in that Jr AB. He was behind every fastball that Mota threw. Only chance was a bloop hit.

Buckeye33
04-23-2005, 03:42 PM
I've held out hope as long as I possibly could. If Griffey is in the lineup, he needs to be in the 6 or 7 hole.

He just doesn't have it left anymore. Maybe he'll pick it up later, but right now he is overmatched by pretty much every pitcher he faces.

Quite sad actually.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 03:42 PM
lol if we can't beat Brian Moehler......lol if the Marlins can't beat Claussen

RedTeamGo!
04-23-2005, 03:43 PM
quite sad? its downright shoot yourself depressing.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 03:43 PM
I've held out hope as long as I possibly could. If Griffey is in the lineup, he needs to be in the 6 or 7 hole.

He just doesn't have it left anymore. Maybe he'll pick it up later, but right now he is overmatched by pretty much every pitcher he faces.

Quite sad actually.Not like he is hitting in bad luck like Kearns who lined out twice today.

paintmered
04-23-2005, 03:44 PM
quite sad? its downright shoot yourself depressing.


Back away from the cliff. It's not worth it to get yourself this worked up over a simple game.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 03:44 PM
Don't worry though, we have Prior and Zambrano waiting in Chicago.

Super_Barry11
04-23-2005, 03:47 PM
Mine wasn't. I'm sorry but there wasn't much suspense in that Jr AB. He was behind every fastball that Mota threw. Only chance was a bloop hit.

Call me stupid, but I still believe in him. He was obviously behind, but you never know what might happen...

My college softball team has a record of 8-32. I always hold out hope. If I were negative all the time, then there would be no point in playing. I would have died from a broken heart by now.

We beat the #15 team in the nation a couple days ago. If we had all mentally given up, then that would never have happened.

Anyway, what's the fun of being a fan if you don't believe in your team?

flyer85
04-23-2005, 03:50 PM
I want to see them win ... but I'm not going to stick my head in the sand. Especially when we have a manager that is not putting the right lineup on the field or the batters in the right places. It isn't going to get any prettier. I wouldn't expect WIly back tomorrow.

M2
04-23-2005, 03:56 PM
On a ball that was outside on a 2-2 count. the swing of a man who averages 1 BB every 12.5 ab's for his career.

He's got a career 3.21 BB/GIDP ratio

Other Reds:

LaRue - 2.93
Casey - 3.13
Randa - 3.26
Pena - 4.00
Kearns - 4.61
Jiminez - 5.74
Jr. - 7.09
Freel - 8.40
FeLo - 10.00
Dunn - 14.83

Quick note: LaRue's such an extreme HB player, it probably doesn't make sense to measure him by BB alone. He rises to 4.59 with the HB in there.

Random selections: Carlos Beltran - 5.64, Bob Abreu - 10.39, Scott Rolen - 6.88, Derek Jeter - 4.67, Todd Helton - 6.86

Spring~Fields
04-23-2005, 03:56 PM
Frustrated and disappointed again, this getting so it is not even good entertainment, too predictable.
thanks Miley, Chambliss, and Gullet!! :(

ws1990reds
04-23-2005, 03:57 PM
Call me stupid, but I still believe in him. He was obviously behind, but you never know what might happen...

My college softball team has a record of 8-32. I always hold out hope. If I were negative all the time, then there would be no point in playing. I would have died from a broken heart by now.

We beat the #15 team in the nation a couple days ago. If we had all mentally given up, then that would never have happened.

Anyway, what's the fun of being a fan if you don't believe in your team?

I think that fanaticism and expectation should be kept separate. It's great to love your team, to be a "fan". However, if you ain't got "pride", then you ain't a fan, IMO. Pride means expecting your team to uphold some standards, and THAT is not happening with the Reds. It really hasn't happened since 1995. 1999 was a complete abberation. The management of the Reds flat-out sucks, from the GM down to the hitting coach. It all starts at the top, if you ain't got an owner that will give you the latitude you need to make necessary adjustments at the detriment of fan following, then you're pretty much a lost cause as a GM. If you have a complacent GM (which I believe Dan O'Brien to be), then there really is no hope for the long-term success of the club. If the management sucks, as it does on the Reds, then you have no hope for the short-term success of the club. The Reds play like they're still in spring training, "trying to figure out the roles of players". Competitive ball clubs knew the roles of players before spring training even ended. Ask Dave Miley what he thinks, just grab a cup of hot joe beforehand.

paintmered
04-23-2005, 04:11 PM
I think that fanaticism and expectation should be kept separate. It's great to love your team, to be a "fan". However, if you ain't got "pride", then you ain't a fan, IMO. Pride means expecting your team to uphold some standards, and THAT is not happening with the Reds. It really hasn't happened since 1995. 1999 was a complete abberation. The management of the Reds flat-out sucks, from the GM down to the hitting coach. It all starts at the top, if you ain't got an owner that will give you the latitude you need to make necessary adjustments at the detriment of fan following, then you're pretty much a lost cause as a GM. If you have a complacent GM (which I believe Dan O'Brien to be), then there really is no hope for the long-term success of the club. If the management sucks, as it does on the Reds, then you have no hope for the short-term success of the club. The Reds play like they're still in spring training, "trying to figure out the roles of players". Competitive ball clubs knew the roles of players before spring training even ended. Ask Dave Miley what he thinks, just grab a cup of hot joe beforehand.

So how do you go about fixing this?

M2
04-23-2005, 04:16 PM
And another arcane stat:

31 of the Reds' 67 runs scored to date have plated thanks to a longball. That's 46%.

westofyou
04-23-2005, 04:19 PM
And another arcane stat:

31 of the Reds' 67 runs scored to date have plated thanks to a longball. That's 46%.

Sounds like my Strat team.

ws1990reds
04-23-2005, 04:19 PM
You replace the current owner with one that can balance keeping a sensible payroll, with getting a GM that can make aggressively "smart" decisions. The GM would most certainly NOT have Miley on the staff. He would go out and get a manager that knows how to manage at the big league level. End of story. It all starts at the top. Poop really does roll down-hill.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 04:21 PM
So how do you go about fixing this?For a start. Fire the GM. Bring in a GM that will be proactive and has a plan to make a small market club to a winner. Bring back Davey Johnson, a manager who won't play favorites and will put the people in the right spots. Sign Dunn and Pena. Trade Casey. Trade Ortiz. Make Wagner the closer.

paintmered
04-23-2005, 04:23 PM
Bring in a GM that will be proactive and has a plan to make a small market club to a winner.

What good GMs are out there to be hired? Do you plan to do this midseason or at the end of this year?

M2
04-23-2005, 04:26 PM
Sounds like my Strat team.

It does at that ... and the exact opposite of mine.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 04:29 PM
What good GMs are out there to be hired? Do you plan to do this midseason or at the end of this year?Supposedly Allen wanted to hire Krivsky the last time. I want someone who follow the Oakland plan and is willing to rely heavily on sabermetrics. Someone who will proactive and lock up young players and is not afraid to deal older more expendable players and build around the young nucleus.

Falls City Beer
04-23-2005, 04:34 PM
Dunn is so obviously gone at FA, I'd trade the guy for a killer arm and just see what happens if the Reds actually had one killer arm; just one, just once. It's time for big ideas.

This will actually perform two functions: 1. It will (should) bring in a killer MLB-ready arm. 2. It will get lots of PT for both Kearns and Pena, so when Kearns heats up, he too can be traded for yet another arm.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 04:37 PM
Dunn is so obviously gone at FA, I'd trade the guy for a killer arm and just see what happens if the Reds actually had one killer arm; just one, just once. It's time for big ideas.There is no killer arm waiting to be traded for Dunn. DanO will hold onto to him to his value is almost zero, like Beltran and McGwire.

I'd love to hear about the killer arm that a team would trade for Dunn.

Falls City Beer
04-23-2005, 04:39 PM
There is no killer arm waiting to be traded for Dunn. DanO will hold onto to him to his value is almost zero, like Beltran and McGwire.

I'd love to hear about the killer arm that a team would trade for Dunn.

They're out there; I bet Detroit would trade Bonderman for Dunn and Claussen.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 04:41 PM
They're out there; I bet Detroit would trade Bonderman for Dunn and Claussen.They might, I don't see Bonderman93-94 with a good curve) as a killer arm. Those are guys like Harden, Hernandez, Beckett, Prior, etc.

M2
04-23-2005, 04:43 PM
Supposedly Allen wanted to hire Krivsky the last time. I want someone who follow the Oakland plan and is willing to rely heavily on sabermetrics. Someone who will proactive and lock up young players and is not afraid to deal older more expendable players and build around the young nucleus.

IMO the only things that could get DanO canned anytime soon is a 100-loss season and if Carl Lindner joins the other shareholders selling the team and they find a buyer.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 04:44 PM
IMO the only things that could get DanO canned anytime soon is a 100-loss season and if Carl Lindner joins the other shareholders selling the team and they find a buyer.unfortunately I would agree. Little chance of DanO being sent packing.

Falls City Beer
04-23-2005, 04:45 PM
IMO the only things that could get DanO canned anytime soon is a 100-loss season and if Carl Lindner joins the other shareholders selling the team and they find a buyer.

This team is clearly within the range of 100 losses, as currently constructed and deployed. A wrong look could send this team to the ditch.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 04:53 PM
This offseason reminded me of a JB offseason, instead of really trying to build for thr future, the Reds patch together a starting staff from what scraps were available. Milton was a more expensive scrap than JB was ever allowed to get.

traderumor
04-23-2005, 05:06 PM
Miley is entering Boone territory with sitting Dunn today and playing Griffey. Regardless of WMP's injury, continuing to play Jr. at this point, esp with a "goofy lefthander" on the mound is worth the :bang:

Kc61
04-23-2005, 05:29 PM
And another arcane stat:

31 of the Reds' 67 runs scored to date have plated thanks to a longball. That's 46%.

I think this is a key point. Believe it or not, the pitching is improved. And will continue to improve as young pitchers come up and guys like Ortiz come back from injury. Remember last year's staff; the pitching is moving in the right direction.

The problem, as I see it, is that the team has only one offensive attribute, power. They strike out too much, lack consistent hitters, have no speed.

Part is attributable to the fact that Griffey, Kearns and Casey are not hitting. That's three supposedly "steady" bats doing nothing. Jimenez too. I am becoming convinced that Freel should play every day. He certainly has shown more offense than most.

Gainesville Red
04-23-2005, 05:46 PM
I still feel pretty good about this team, but one thing I have decided is that Freel's gotta be the everyday leadoff guy. I really liked Jimenez last year, and thought he may have a break out year this year, but I'm starting to back away from that. He hit pretty well, and was pretty consistent. This year he's still consistent, consistently bad. I realize that it's early, but I'm just not feeling it for him. Freel on the other hand is getting on base consistently, and he's the only threat on the bases. If nothing else he just seems like he's the Reds only spark.

traderumor
04-23-2005, 06:26 PM
I guess since it is April, hopefully we can continue to at least tread water while Miley makes some tough decisions about who his every day players are. I don't see doom and gloom for this squad just yet, but Miley needs to scrap some of the lineup experimentation and scrap some status quo type thinking to pull it off. Not sure he is the man to do it, though.

oneupper
04-23-2005, 06:27 PM
I guess since it is April, hopefully we can continue to at least tread water while Miley makes some tough decisions about who his every day players are. I don't see doom and gloom for this squad just yet, but Miley needs to scrap some of the lineup experimentation and scrap some status quo type thinking to pull it off. Not sure he is the man to do it, though.

He's not. :(

flyer85
04-23-2005, 06:28 PM
Not gloom and doom. They may be the 2nd best team in the division. However, they in no way shape or form are set to compete with the Cards.

ws1990reds
04-23-2005, 06:49 PM
IMO the only things that could get DanO canned anytime soon is a 100-loss season and if Carl Lindner joins the other shareholders selling the team and they find a buyer.

M2, I don't know a thing about finances in baseball. What happens if Carl Lindner were to die? Who would get his shares? His fellow shareholders? Or, since his shares are the majority stake, would ALL of the shares be up for grabs? My secret plan is to find someone who is less interested in bananas, to run the show. :evil:

traderumor
04-23-2005, 07:07 PM
Not gloom and doom. They may be the 2nd best team in the division. However, they in no way shape or form are set to compete with the Cards.The Cards have plenty of their own holes that will be exposed over a long season.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 07:12 PM
The Cards have plenty of their own holes that will be exposed over a long season.And what might that be outside of a BP lacking depth? They certainly have a lot less holes than the Red do.

traderumor
04-23-2005, 08:12 PM
And what might that be outside of a BP lacking depth? They certainly have a lot less holes than the Red do.Middle infield for starters, bullpen doesn't lack depth, it is looking like the 2003 bullpen for them, and their defense overall took quite a hit with the defections. They have a lot of "contact" pitchers like ours that will watch their numbers rise as the defense weakens. Edmonds is a year older. Bench is not as deep. How's that for starters?

BTW, I wasn't comparing their situation to the Reds, I'd still take the Cards over anyone else in the division, but they are shaky at best and could win anywhere from 85-95 games, depending on the mid-season moves Jocketty makes.

M2
04-23-2005, 08:20 PM
I think this is a key point. Believe it or not, the pitching is improved. And will continue to improve as young pitchers come up and guys like Ortiz come back from injury. Remember last year's staff; the pitching is moving in the right direction.

So far the Reds have an .838 OPS against. Last year they had an .830 OPS against.

In other words, they're right on pace to repeat last season. Wagner and hopefully Harang are keepers. That's a start, but no way am I calling two guys acquired prior to this regime a direction, let alone a right one.

BUTLER REDSFAN
04-23-2005, 08:25 PM
with the way our offense is going we need to bunt over every player that makes it to first--other than a few pitchers i dont believe we've bunted 1 player over this season...our pitching isnt the problem..if our offense ever comes alive we'd be fine..it almost seems like the offense is content to get their 2 runs a game and give up after that