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View Full Version : Dunn on the bench - 4/23 Game Thread



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flyer85
04-23-2005, 12:14 PM
Miley is much dumber than I ever suspected. It's as if he wants to lose.

LvJ
04-23-2005, 12:16 PM
CINCINNATI AT FLORIDA -- LINEUPS

CINCINNATI FLORIDA
AVG HR RBI AVG HR RBI
Ryan Freel 2B .333 0 1 Juan Pierre CF .324 0 4
Ken Griffey Jr CF .216 0 3 Luis Castillo 2B .278 0 3
Sean Casey 1B .254 0 3 Carlos Delgado 1B .317 2 8
Joe Randa 3B .283 4 12 Miguel Cabrera LF .303 3 15
Wily Mo Pena LF .325 5 11 Juan Encarnacion RF .293 3 17
Austin Kearns RF .216 1 5 Paul Lo Duca C .353 1 8
Rich Aurilia SS .238 2 8 Mike Lowell 3B .172 2 8
Jason Larue C .256 0 4 Alex Gonzalez SS .226 1 7
Matt Belisle RHP .000 0 0 Dontrelle Willis LHP .200 0 2
(1-1, 6.75) (3-0, 1.13)

NC Reds
04-23-2005, 12:18 PM
I would never sit Dunn. He could at least work Willis for a walk or two. I think if Griffey hadn't taken a 0-fer yesterday, Miley would have felt better about resting Griffey today.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 12:19 PM
I would never sit Dunn. He could at least work Willis for a walk or two. I think if Griffey hadn't taken a 0-fer yesterday, Miley would have felt better about resting Griffey today.Dunn is not hot enough. Only a 1.674 OPS in the 7 days.

OnBaseMachine
04-23-2005, 12:20 PM
I didn't think Miley was that stupid.

Miley is the worst manager in baseball. I would rather have Boone back as manager. ;) Take that back, he isn't THAT bad.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 12:22 PM
I didn't think Miley was that stupid.

Miley is the worst manager in baseball. I would rather have Boone back as manager.Davey Johnson

RedsIn07
04-23-2005, 12:22 PM
For a guy that said he wouldnt have casey and randa bat back to back and for someone who wanted to breakup left and righty hitters he sure isnt doing it with this lineup

Matt700wlw
04-23-2005, 12:23 PM
Dunn has never hit Willis (I don't think) which is why he probably is sitting

NC Reds
04-23-2005, 12:23 PM
I still like Miley, but I don't understand why Casey or Griffey aren't sitting today.

I would never yearn for the return of BoobBoone.

OnBaseMachine
04-23-2005, 12:24 PM
I was a huge fan of Davey. I would kill to have Davey Johnson back as the Reds manager.

Miley doesn't have a clue. This is the third game that Dunn has already sit out. Unreal. Dunn was mad after being benched last week, just how pissed will be now?

Spring~Fields
04-23-2005, 12:24 PM
I can't take Miley's decisions with his lineups anymore.

Someone teach me something, why is the twelve million dollar man batting second and the one year rental batting fourth?

Why isn't Dunn hitting second, Kearns third, Pena fourth, and so forth?

RedsIn07
04-23-2005, 12:25 PM
Dunn has never hit Willis (I don't think) which is why he probably is sitting
Dunn is 0 for 7 against Willis lifetime

OnBaseMachine
04-23-2005, 12:26 PM
Dunn has never hit Willis (I don't think) which is why he probably is sitting

You can't judge him on 7 atbats.

GAC
04-23-2005, 12:26 PM
REDS

R. Freel 2b
K. Griffey Jr.
S. Casey 1b
J. Randa 3b
W. Pena lf
A. Kearns rf
R. Aurilia ss
J. LaRue c
M. Belisle p 1-1 6.75 ERA

MARLINS

J. Pierre cf
L. Castillo 2b
M. Cabrera lf
J. Encarnacion rf
P. Lo Duca c
M. Lowell 3b
A. Gonzalez ss
D. Willis p 3-0 1.13 ERA

NC Reds
04-23-2005, 12:26 PM
Freel
Kearns
Dunn
Pena
Casey
Randa
Larue
Aurilla
Belisle

Here's mine.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 12:27 PM
Dunn has never hit Willis (I don't think) which is why he probably is sittingSmall sample sizes. Dunn seems to be the only one who Miley uses the information to give the day off. This team is just about ready to tank and this OF situation is going to blow it apart. Miley and Dano don't have the cojones this franchise needs to make the decisions to move forward. We are on the cusp of becoming the Milwaukee Brewers.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 12:28 PM
Ugh.

Besides the Freel thing, Miley just does. not. get. it. Why not Dunn over Griffey?

Matt700wlw
04-23-2005, 12:28 PM
You can't judge him on 7 atbats.

I didn't....Miley did

M2
04-23-2005, 12:29 PM
I don't mind him sitting Dunn, but I don't think it makes sense of doing it in favor of Jr. IMO if he was going to bench Dunn against Willis, he should have benched Jr. too. The OF could be Freel, Pena and Kearns. Jiminez, who's been clocking lefties this season, could stay at 2B.

Spring~Fields
04-23-2005, 12:30 PM
Freel
Kearns
Dunn
Pena
Casey
Randa
Larue
Aurilla
Belisle

Here's mine.

Works for me

GAC
04-23-2005, 12:31 PM
Dunn's OPS is too high. :lol:

I still wish they'd move Casey down in the order of this lineup. he's not hitting that well right now, and he's the "GIDP" king after your top two get on base.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 12:32 PM
This franchise is in trouble from top to bottom. We have a front office that has no vision and no idea how to build a winner. DanO has no track record in being able to do this and has no plan how to do it now. Billy Beane has given a blueprint for how small market teams can hope to compete, we have a FO that does the exact opposite.

GAC
04-23-2005, 12:40 PM
Sorry. I didn't see where someone else had already started a gamethread. I was looking for "Gamethread" in the title.

Tommyjohn25
04-23-2005, 12:43 PM
This franchise is in trouble from top to bottom. We have a front office that has no vision and no idea how to build a winner. DanO has no track record in being able to do this and has no plan how to do it now. Billy Beane has given a blueprint for how small market teams can hope to compete, we have a FO that does the exact opposite.

"sigh" Well, that's good enough for me. Guess I won't watch any more games this year since apparently the season is over. Could have fooled me though, I thought we were 8-8 going into the THIRD WEEK OF THE SEASON.

BadFundamentals
04-23-2005, 12:48 PM
For what it's worth :eek: , I even have to admit if Miley were treating all players totally equal - totally independent of $$$, years, egos etc ........it would be Griffey on bench today instead of Dunn. Dunn is taking this one today for Griffey.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 12:50 PM
For what it's worth :eek: , I even have to admit if Miley were treating all players totally equal - totally independent of $$$, years, egos etc ........it would be Griffey on bench today instead of Dunn. Dunn is taking this one today for Griffey.equitable treatment should having nothing to do with it. It should be about building a lineup that gives the best chance to win. For the last 3 days we haven't seen it.

Falls City Beer
04-23-2005, 12:51 PM
Seriously, what are the odds that the Reds win this game? 100 to 1? 200 to 1?

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 12:53 PM
Seriously, what are the odds that the Reds win this game? 100 to 1? 200 to 1?

It's definitely stacked against them, esp. with a young, inexperienced pitcher on the mound.

Of course, we said the same thing last week versus Mulder (I think) and the Cardinals, and Belisle proved us wrong there.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 12:53 PM
Seriously, what are the odds that the Reds win this game? 100 to 1? 200 to 1?10%. The only consolation is Willis started better last year and then began struggling after his 3rd start.

BadFundamentals
04-23-2005, 12:53 PM
equitable treatment should having nothing to do with it. It should be about building a lineup that gives the best chance to win. For the last 3 days we haven't seen it.
true...... I guess Miley thinks it would be short-sighted to bench Griffey based on his lack of productivity. Safer to bench another young player consistent with his "rotation" of playing time methodology than to risk ruffling "superstar" feathers???......

Spring~Fields
04-23-2005, 12:57 PM
Griff will probably go 3 - 4 today with two homeruns and will be batting second for the rest of the year, regardless :p: or should it be :cry:

flyer85
04-23-2005, 12:59 PM
true...... I guess Miley thinks it would be short-sighted to bench Griffey based on his lack of productivity. Safer to bench another young player consistent with his "rotation" of playing time methodology than to risk ruffling "superstar" feathers???......Only a matter of time until it comes to a head. I am one who thinks that the three young guys are better than Jr and Casey. Maybe we can deal the young guys for some more chemistry

Redsfaninab
04-23-2005, 12:59 PM
Sitting Dunn this much early in the season will really go a long way in us not being able to resign him long term.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:00 PM
Here's a novel concept. The Marlins are going with the SAME exact lineup as they put out yesterday when they actually won the game. And had 10+ hits. And the Reds, with 5 hits yesterday and a poor showing against the Pirates Thursday, are basically going with the same construction of a lineup. Way to go, Dave.

Falls City Beer
04-23-2005, 01:02 PM
Being in this kind of deficit before the first pitch is thrown is maddening.

CincyRedsFan30
04-23-2005, 01:02 PM
Ridiculously bad lineup.

Aronchis
04-23-2005, 01:06 PM
Why is struggling Joe Randa hitting 4th? Amazing Miley at it again :eek:

RedsBaron
04-23-2005, 01:06 PM
I don't mind him sitting Dunn, but I don't think it makes sense of doing it in favor of Jr. IMO if he was going to bench Dunn against Willis, he should have benched Jr. too. The OF could be Freel, Pena and Kearns. Jiminez, who's been clocking lefties this season, could stay at 2B.
Yeah, and it makes no sense to have Griffey and Casey, two lefthanded hitters who are slumping, bat second and third against a tough southpaw.

Matt700wlw
04-23-2005, 01:07 PM
It's amazing how much more often the first batter gets on base when Ryan Freel is that batter

LvJ
04-23-2005, 01:07 PM
Freel and D'Lo's roles need to be reversed for a few weeks atleast.

Gainesville Red
04-23-2005, 01:07 PM
by the way, there's a game going on, Freel base hit. Jr. UP.

Super_Barry11
04-23-2005, 01:07 PM
Gotta love Ryan Freel!! :thumbup:

Gainesville Red
04-23-2005, 01:08 PM
Right on cue, Jr. DP

flyer85
04-23-2005, 01:08 PM
DP ... Kept Casey from hitting in one

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:09 PM
Of course Gonzalez's foot wasn't even anywhere close to the bag after he had to dig a ball out of the dirt....but that's your MLB double play right there.

Falls City Beer
04-23-2005, 01:09 PM
You'd think Griffey would ASK to be benched to preserve his dignity. It's beyond embarrassing at this point.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 01:11 PM
The Reds don't even have a box to think outside of.

OnBaseMachine
04-23-2005, 01:13 PM
Freel earned himself a spot on the bench tomorow after that hit. You've got to slump to start for this team.

LvJ
04-23-2005, 01:13 PM
Oh crap. Ouch.

Matt700wlw
04-23-2005, 01:14 PM
Can't beat the Marlins if you let the leadoff hitter on base

This lineup they have will get you if you're not careful

flyer85
04-23-2005, 01:15 PM
E on WMP

LvJ
04-23-2005, 01:15 PM
:rolleyes:

LvJ
04-23-2005, 01:16 PM
Little league, Pena?

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:16 PM
Long day comin'. Oh boy. Nice play 'Mo. Jeez. For all his hitting, he's a major, major defensive liability.

Gainesville Red
04-23-2005, 01:16 PM
Eww, that was ugly.

Super_Barry11
04-23-2005, 01:16 PM
Oh. My. Goodness. :(

redram
04-23-2005, 01:16 PM
E on WMP

He gives up more runs than he produces.
:angry: :angry:

Matt700wlw
04-23-2005, 01:17 PM
wow

westofyou
04-23-2005, 01:17 PM
Long day comin'. Oh boy. Nice play 'Mo. Jeez. For all his hitting, he's a major, major defensive liability.

Wily Mo in the field makes one long for Kal Daniels.... he's brutal.. if he keeps it up he'll end up being Wily Mo DH.

Matt700wlw
04-23-2005, 01:18 PM
It's going to be a long day folks....this lineup is teeing off of Belisle

....at least the draft is on (but moving very, very slow)

flyer85
04-23-2005, 01:18 PM
games just about over and the Reds haven't gotten anout yet

flyer85
04-23-2005, 01:20 PM
..this lineup is teeing off of Belisle
Belisle is a relief pitcher. he is overmatched as a starter. Doesn't have a 3rd pitch. Seems to have his curve today

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:20 PM
Do we need a PBP guy? I can take over if needed, I suppose.

Aronchis
04-23-2005, 01:21 PM
Belisle is a relief pitcher. he is overmatched as a starter

No doubt about that, though. He doesn't have near Claussen's stuff.

Mutaman
04-23-2005, 01:22 PM
I didn't think Miley was that stupid.

Miley is the worst manager in baseball. I would rather have Boone back as manager.

I give up, I simply give up.

Falls City Beer
04-23-2005, 01:24 PM
Belisle is a relief pitcher. he is overmatched as a starter. Doesn't have a 3rd pitch. Seems to have his curve today

What's particularly comforting is that the guy he's spotstarting for, Ortiz, is a reliever posing as a starter.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:24 PM
Well anyway. Lo Duca flies out on a 5-pitch AB to center.

Belisle gets out of what could have been a disasterous inning. 26 pitches, 2 runs on 2 hits with 2 Ks.

Falls City Beer
04-23-2005, 01:25 PM
Well anyway. Lo Duca flies out on a 5-pitch AB to center.

Belisle gets out of what could have been a disasterous inning. 26 pitches, 2 runs on 2 hits with 2 Ks.

Could have been?

Wheelhouse
04-23-2005, 01:27 PM
Why do you think Miley is dumb? For not starting Dunn against a vicious lefty?

GAC
04-23-2005, 01:27 PM
Chat is open. :beerme: :beerme:

flyer85
04-23-2005, 01:27 PM
those 2-3-4 hitters are cookin

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:27 PM
Could have been?

Considering the start of the inning, I'd say he got out of it pretty well.

Randa Ks on 4 pitches.

Oxilon
04-23-2005, 01:28 PM
Why do you think Miley is dumb? For not starting Dunn against a vicious lefty?

Ofcourse Miley is going to sit Dunn against the "corky lefthander." ;)

GAC
04-23-2005, 01:28 PM
Chat is open :beerme: :beerme:

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:28 PM
Wily Mo with a 2-1 single to right. 1 out, 1 on for Kearns.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 01:28 PM
Why do you think Miley is dumb? For not starting Dunn against a vicious lefty?see lineup construction and last nights game. I am sure he had a smoke after the way Jack used him last night

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:30 PM
Willis looks like he's balking on that pickoff move.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:30 PM
Kearns goes down swinging. 2 outs.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:33 PM
Aurilia Ks. Lonnnnnnnnnng day ahead.

Willis with 31 pitches, 3 Ks through 2.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 01:36 PM
WMP out. So Lopez is in. Is there any chance the Reds score today?

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:37 PM
Everyone left! Jeez. I'm not *that* bad! :)

Lowell grounds out to 3rd. 1 out.

TeamCasey
04-23-2005, 01:37 PM
I hate the word "tweak".

Falls City Beer
04-23-2005, 01:37 PM
WMP out. So Lopez is in. Is there any chance the Reds score today?

Is he hurt?

flynn78
04-23-2005, 01:38 PM
Wily Mo leaves and Miley can't suck it up and put in Dunn?

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:38 PM
Gonzalez grounds out to 2nd. 2 outs.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 01:39 PM
Is he hurt?no word yet

Gainesville Red
04-23-2005, 01:39 PM
quick inning, looks like Belisle has calmed down a little.

Falls City Beer
04-23-2005, 01:39 PM
Does someone want to fill us TV-less, radio-less folk on what's going on with Pena? Injury, I assume?

Matt700wlw
04-23-2005, 01:40 PM
Wily Mo is out of the lineup -- Miley pulled him...Freel is in left, Lopez comes in to play second

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:40 PM
Willis grounds out to SS. Nice 1-2-3 inning by Belisle.

Pena out? Lopez into 2B, Freel to LF. Anyone catch that?

Gainesville Red
04-23-2005, 01:40 PM
Lopez at second, Freel in left. What's going on?

d2pmr11
04-23-2005, 01:40 PM
Does someone want to fill us TV-less, radio-less folk on what's going on with Pena? Injury, I assume?

I hope he was just caught dogging it.

Matt700wlw
04-23-2005, 01:41 PM
Wily Mo Probably pulled for looking like a jack ass in left field

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:42 PM
I hope he was just caught dogging it.

If that was the case, Griffey would have to sit down at least 4 times a week. Dunn too.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:42 PM
LaRue hits it hard to right but it's caught by JuanE. 1 out.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 01:42 PM
I hope he was just caught dogging it.please ...

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:43 PM
Belisle at least looks at 5 pitches before striking out. 2 gone.

jhiller21
04-23-2005, 01:44 PM
Nice baserunning by Freel.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:44 PM
Freel with a little bloop down the right field line that turns into a double. MAN is he making a case for PT.

Falls City Beer
04-23-2005, 01:45 PM
Two words: Freel rules.

Gainesville Red
04-23-2005, 01:45 PM
I know it's nothing new, and has been said before, but can anyone think of any reason Freel should not be in the line up every day.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:45 PM
I'll give you a big fat guess as to what Junior does.

1st pitch, grounds out to 1st base. Way to look at some pitches. Inning over.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 01:45 PM
Wow ... Jr made an out.

jhiller21
04-23-2005, 01:45 PM
Jr grounds out weakly to first, again.

Falls City Beer
04-23-2005, 01:45 PM
And Griffey swings on the first self-charicature.

Matt700wlw
04-23-2005, 01:45 PM
There is no reason why Ryan Freel should not in the lineup every day

Super_Barry11
04-23-2005, 01:46 PM
Two words: Freel rules.

:thumbup: :clap: :clap: :thumbup:

TeamCasey
04-23-2005, 01:46 PM
I'm Spartacus!

flyer85
04-23-2005, 01:46 PM
I know it's nothing new, and has been said before, but can anyone think of any reason Freel should not be in the line up every day.no. All he does is get on base. The problem is he is batting lead off and the three guys behind him have little chance of knocking him in

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:47 PM
I wonder if Miley is convienently immersed in a game of canasta or something every time Griffey is at the plate. He's SCREAMING #6 hitter every time he steps up at the moment.

d2pmr11
04-23-2005, 01:48 PM
I know it's nothing new, and has been said before, but can anyone think of any reason Freel should not be in the line up every day.

Yes. He's too versatile and therfore too valuable as a late-inning replacement for any position. And he's the only viable pinch-runner because he runs the bases well and he's fast.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:48 PM
Pierre with a 2-pitch groundout to SS. 1 out.

Gainesville Red
04-23-2005, 01:48 PM
Honestly, he gets on base, he's the only Red that can steal bases consistently, only red that hustles, can play everywhere, definetly the only Red that could have stretched that bloop single into a double. Gotta get him in every day.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:49 PM
Fleet feet of Aurilia can't un-stiffen long enough to get to the ball and throw out Castillo. Infield single.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 01:49 PM
Castillo was out, that was a nice play by Aurilia

Phoenix
04-23-2005, 01:49 PM
Wily Mo made the error...that's one thing. But than he loafed after it and that's just inexusable. I'm guessing Miley thought so too and yanked him.

Falls City Beer
04-23-2005, 01:50 PM
Honestly, he gets on base, he's the only Red that can steal bases consistently, only red that hustles, can play everywhere, definetly the only Red that could have stretched that bloop single into a double. Gotta get him in every day.

I happen to think guys like Pena and Lopez hustle as well, they simply haven't a clue what to do with their skills.

Matt700wlw
04-23-2005, 01:51 PM
Beam Ball Belisle

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:52 PM
Wily Mo made the error...that's one thing. But than he loafed after it and that's just inexusable. I'm guessing Miley thought so too and yanked him.

You're more optimistic on the prospects of the unwritten rules of baseball being enforced on this team than I am. He's probably hurt somehow.

Delgado is HBP after a few good pitches from Belisle. 1st and 2nd, 1 out.

Gainesville Red
04-23-2005, 01:53 PM
need a DP bad.

Falls City Beer
04-23-2005, 01:53 PM
You're more optimistic on the prospects of the unwritten rules of baseball being enforced on this team than I am. He's probably hurt somehow.

Delgado is HBP after a few good pitches from Belisle. 1st and 2nd, 1 out.

I agree completely. I seriously doubt Miley's got the kind of leash, say, Bobby Cox has in Atlanta.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:54 PM
Cabrera grounds out slowly to Aurilia, runners go to 2nd and 3rd.

2 outs, JuanE coming up.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:55 PM
I agree completely. I seriously doubt Miley's got the kind of leash, say, Bobby Cox has in Atlanta.

Or the sack to truly make a strong-armed move like that with one of your best players.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 01:56 PM
Juan was waiting for the one.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:57 PM
I was just about to type "Belisle looks a ton better than he did in the 1st"....and then he promptly gives up a 2-run single to left.

JuanE goes to second on a rainbow throw to home by Freel. Ugh.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 01:58 PM
Lo Duca grounds out to 3rd.

4-0 Marlins. What was that post earlier about the odds of winning against Willis? Because they just went drastically down.

Gainesville Red
04-23-2005, 01:58 PM
Just when I start making my case for Freel to get PT every day, he absolutley air mails LaRue at home to let the 4th run score. God I love the Reds.

Falls City Beer
04-23-2005, 01:58 PM
Or the sack to truly make a strong-armed move like that with one of your best players.

I honestly don't believe it has anything to do with "sack". I think this team so poorly enforces a top-down rule; Miley would be censured for such a move by DanO, et al.

flynn78
04-23-2005, 01:58 PM
Bad News Bears. Tanner throws high from left.

PuffyPig
04-23-2005, 01:59 PM
Lo Duca grounds out to 3rd.

4-0 Marlins. What was that post earlier about the odds of winning against Willis? Because they just went drastically down.

I think you mean "up".

Falls City Beer
04-23-2005, 01:59 PM
Just when I start making my case for Freel to get PT every day, he absolutley air mails LaRue at home to let the 4th run score. God I love the Reds.

Contending teams should be able to weather a judy-armed outfielder. But this is clearly not a contending team.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 02:00 PM
stiff leg for WMP

Reds Nd2
04-23-2005, 02:00 PM
Any word on Pena from WLW?

CincyRedsFan30
04-23-2005, 02:00 PM
Willis has given up less than 1 run per 9 innings this year. Our chances here are easily under 1 percent I'd say.

Gainesville Red
04-23-2005, 02:01 PM
Wily Mo: Stiffness in his left Quad.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:01 PM
I think you mean "up".

Thank you. :)

Grande says Pena out with "stiffness" in his quad muscle.

Casey singles to leadoff the inning.

d2pmr11
04-23-2005, 02:01 PM
This better be Belisle's last start. He's that pitcher who we send out there and everybody including teammates are really pulling for him and thinking "gosh I hope he does well!" It's really sad, and he doesn't belong starting games in April.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:01 PM
Randa singles to center, 2 on, no out, Lopez up.

Aronchis
04-23-2005, 02:01 PM
Contending teams should be able to weather a judy-armed outfielder. But this is clearly not a contending team.

and Dan O'brien agree's with you. You have to understand, half the moves made in the offseason were Populist moves than GM moves. When the Reds aren't contending again by July, you think DanO will be allowed to get rid of Wilson for example? That is the good mark of who controls what.

Reds Nd2
04-23-2005, 02:02 PM
Stiffness in his left quadacept is the reason Wily Mo left the game according to the Marlins tv guys.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 02:02 PM
too bad Dunn isn't hitting here

ghettochild
04-23-2005, 02:02 PM
stiffness in the left quad for pena

d2pmr11
04-23-2005, 02:03 PM
uh oh, Felipe up with runners on base.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:03 PM
Why isn't Lopez bunting here? Stoopid. Does Miley even WATCH the games?

OnBaseMachine
04-23-2005, 02:03 PM
A 3 run HR here from Dunn gets us back in the game...oh wait, nevermind. I forgot Dunn is on the bench.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:03 PM
Lopez Ks on a 2-2 pitch. Argh.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 02:03 PM
Grab some bench Felo.

Austin you're the only hope.

flyer85
04-23-2005, 02:04 PM
line drive out

Gainesville Red
04-23-2005, 02:04 PM
Kearns flys out, Reds are pretty good with guys on base this year, huh?

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:04 PM
Kearns lines out to center on a hard hit ball. 2 out.

If Lopez had bunted the runner over, it's a run for Cincy.

d2pmr11
04-23-2005, 02:04 PM
Dontrelle's plan was to give up two hits and get Felipe to ground into a DP. Little does he know about Felipe's ability to make contract.

flynn78
04-23-2005, 02:05 PM
I can understand being fooled by breaking stuff, but a fastball over the middle. Come on Felipe. Typical Reds Mirage Rally.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:05 PM
Aurilia takes absolutely no pitches and weakly grounds into an FC at 2nd. Inning over.

I'm about to throw my monitor into my tv screen at this garbage, which might hinder my opportunities in the near future to do the PBP.

paintmered
04-23-2005, 02:06 PM
Game thread, bashing thread...

not much difference these days :(

d2pmr11
04-23-2005, 02:06 PM
Why isn't Lopez bunting here? Stoopid. Does Miley even WATCH the games?

I agree with you, but be careful oin this message board. These guys HATE bunts. I argued for bunting with runners on first and secoind and no outs the other day, and guys were all over me saying that I'm just setting up a BB and another DP situation anyway.

Mutaman
04-23-2005, 02:06 PM
Why isn't Lopez bunting here? Stoopid. Does Miley even WATCH the games?


I don't know a lot about baseball, but I don't think a bunt is the proper move when you're down 4-0.

westofyou
04-23-2005, 02:07 PM
Why isn't Lopez bunting here? Stoopid. Does Miley even WATCH the games?

Why does everyone keep asking for small ball?

ZERO outs 4 runs down lots of the game left, playing for 1 run is not going to happen at this point in the game, in an era that teams can make 4 runs in a couple of swings.

Bob Boone bunts in that situation.... and promptly would get ripped.

And deserve it too.

redsfan4445
04-23-2005, 02:08 PM
I would have bunted in that situation with Lopez.. down 4-0 you have to manyfacture runs not sit back and wait for a AL 3-run homer!!!!

TeamCasey
04-23-2005, 02:08 PM
No one chatting today?

westofyou
04-23-2005, 02:09 PM
I agree with you, but be careful oin this message board.

Yeah you might hear an opinion different than your own.

*Shudder*

Puffy
04-23-2005, 02:09 PM
Why does everyone keep asking for small ball?

ZERO outs 4 runs down lots of the game left, playing for 1 run is not going to happen at this point in the game, in an era that teams can make 4 runs in a couple of swings.

Bob Boone bunts in that situation.... and promptly would get ripped.

And deserve it too.

:clap:

d2pmr11
04-23-2005, 02:11 PM
Why does everyone keep asking for small ball?

ZERO outs 4 runs down lots of the game left, playing for 1 run is not going to happen at this point in the game, in an era that teams can make 4 runs in a couple of swings.

Bob Boone bunts in that situation.... and promptly would get ripped.

And deserve it too.

If this game were in the 8th inning, the Bob Boone bunts. This is the fourth, and one run helps. Especially when you have someone like Lopez at the plate. Oh, and WOY, you logged off before I was able to check your stats on Felipe a week ago. But I found them and you had his average with RISP wrong. He's a lot worse than you said he was.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:11 PM
I think a higher probability of one run and the increased likelihood of 2 runs with a basehit or a future run-scoring chance would be incentive enough at this early stage in the game.

If we're in the 7th inning, no one bunts there. But we're in the 4th. Which gives us at least 5 more innings of run scoring chances.

With Felipe Lopez at the plate, my money is not on the 3-run HR to make it 4-3. My money is on the sac bunt so that a runner can score on the SAC fly.

At worst we go into the 5th inning down 3 runs instead of the 4 runs we're down now.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:12 PM
Anyway...Lowell singles off of Belisle's backside (ouch), then Gonzalez grounds into a 5-4-3 DP. 2 outs.

TC81190
04-23-2005, 02:12 PM
I <edited> hate Miley. Dump him. Trade Jr. .

Dunn/WMP/Kearns needs to be the OF, every day.

westofyou
04-23-2005, 02:13 PM
He's a lot worse than you said he was.

You mean Yahoo.. I didn't say anything, I cut and pasted the stats from Yahoo.

I believe your beef is with them.

paintmered
04-23-2005, 02:14 PM
I friggin' hate Miley. Dump him. Trade Jr. .


Any derivative of the F-bomb is not acceptable at redszone. It never has been acceptable and it will continue to be edited. I've seen it happening too much lately. It needs to stop.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:15 PM
Willis grounds out to Aurila. 3 outs, inning over.

Line on Belisle so far : 4 IP 5 H 4 ER 0 BB 2 K - 69 pitches.

Aronchis
04-23-2005, 02:15 PM
The funny thing about the Belisle, if the Reds could play defense, he wouldn't be having a bad start. Not bad for a guy who's stuff is made for the 7th inning.

d2pmr11
04-23-2005, 02:16 PM
You mean Yahoo.. I didn't say anything, I cut and pasted the stats from Yahoo.

I believe your beef is with them.

Nope. I checked yahoo. You used his 2004 average with his career ABs making it look like he had a higher average with a lot of at bats.

d2pmr11
04-23-2005, 02:17 PM
The funny thing about the Belisle, if the Reds could play defense, he wouldn't be having a bad start. Not bad for a guy who's stuff is made for the 7th inning.

He hit two batters and they both scored.

OnBaseMachine
04-23-2005, 02:17 PM
Great AB by LaRue.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:18 PM
LaRue walked.

Belisle sac bunts, Larue to 2nd, 1 out.

westofyou
04-23-2005, 02:19 PM
Nope. I checked yahoo. You used his 2004 average with his career ABs making it look like he had a higher average with a lot of at bats.
2004 RISP 56 ab's

.267 .338 .433 .772


2004 RISP 2/outs 31 ab's

.308 .419 .500 .919

There ya go

Aronchis
04-23-2005, 02:19 PM
He hit two batters and they both scored.

So what. The truth is, the WMP fiasco and the Castillo/Aurilia bungle, are costing the Reds greatly right now. Belisle is NOT a starting pitcher. He is only starting because of Ortiz's limpy groin. This game could be closer right.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:20 PM
Freel with a broken bat ground ball to Willis, who makes a great play and a strong throw to get Freel at 1st.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:22 PM
The worst #2 hitter I've ever seen (at least through 16 games) Ks on an outside corner fastball.

Come on, Dave.

Mutaman
04-23-2005, 02:23 PM
Why does everyone keep asking for small ball?

ZERO outs 4 runs down lots of the game left, playing for 1 run is not going to happen at this point in the game, in an era that teams can make 4 runs in a couple of swings.

Bob Boone bunts in that situation.... and promptly would get ripped.

And deserve it too.


I live for these little bursts of sanity here. its almost worth going through all the drival.

Reds Nd2
04-23-2005, 02:24 PM
I live for these little bursts of sanity here. its almost worth going through all the drival.

Almost....

westofyou
04-23-2005, 02:25 PM
The worst #2 hitter I've ever seen (at least through 16 games) Ks on an outside corner fastball.

Come on, Dave.

He's got a long way to go to meet Juan Castro last year and his 124 ab's of futility

.194/.237/.274/.511

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:26 PM
Pierre to first on catchers' interference.

paintmered
04-23-2005, 02:26 PM
He's got a long way to go to meet Juan Castro last year and his 124 ab's of futility

.194/.237/.274/.511


You aren't supposed to dispute a good rant with facts. :p:

RFS62
04-23-2005, 02:26 PM
Coffey warming up

d2pmr11
04-23-2005, 02:26 PM
I live for these little bursts of sanity here. its almost worth going through all the drival.

Okay, who's monitoring the IPs on this thread? WoY is the only one who gets these pats on the back, and they are almost never deserving. I'm going to start making a list of usernames, and I'm going to bet they are all coming from the same place.

Reds Nd2
04-23-2005, 02:27 PM
Todd Coffey warming up in the pen.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:27 PM
He's got a long way to go to meet Juan Castro last year and his 124 ab's of futility

.194/.237/.274/.511

How I forgot Castro is beyond me. Griffey's at .204 so far.

Pierre is Caught Stealing by LaRue. Nice job.

RFS62
04-23-2005, 02:27 PM
What an incredible move by LaRue

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:27 PM
Castillo Ks. 2 out.

Kc61
04-23-2005, 02:28 PM
The funny thing about the Belisle, if the Reds could play defense, he wouldn't be having a bad start. Not bad for a guy who's stuff is made for the 7th inning.

I don't really understand the optimism with this pitcher, Belisle. He had a 5.2 ERA last year. At Louisville. He allowed 192 hits in 162 innings at AAA. He hasn't pitched well in the minor leagues, why does anyone think he can pitch in the major leagues? If he belongs in the bullpen he should become a AAA relief pitcher for awhile and prove it.

Due to injury, I understand why he is on the team now. Frankly, I would rather see Jared Fernandez as the emergency starter.

westofyou
04-23-2005, 02:28 PM
Okay, who's monitoring the IPs on this thread? WoY is the only one who gets these pats on the back, and they are almost never deserving. I'm going to start making a list of usernames, and I'm going to bet they are all coming from the same place.

I also have been to Dallas AND I own an umbrella.

M2
04-23-2005, 02:28 PM
LaRue just ate the best basestealer in baseball alive. Anyone got a problem with his defense now?

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:29 PM
Delgado singles to center. As does Cabrera. 2 outs, runners on 1st and 2nd.

ws1990reds
04-23-2005, 02:29 PM
The Reds look like the Barnum & Bailey Traveling Circus. This is pathetic. :help:

Aronchis
04-23-2005, 02:29 PM
I don't really understand the optimism with this pitcher, Belisle. He had a 5.2 ERA last year. At Louisville. He allowed 192 hits in 162 innings at AAA. He hasn't pitched well in the minor leagues, why does anyone think he can pitch in the major leagues? If he belongs in the bullpen he should become a AAA relief pitcher for awhile and prove it.

Due to injury, I understand why he is on the team now. Frankly, I would rather see Jared Fernandez as the emergency starter.

His velocity returned. Throw out last years numbers, he was only throwing 87mph.

westofyou
04-23-2005, 02:29 PM
How I forgot Castro is beyond me. Griffey's at .204 so far.

Pierre is Caught Stealing by LaRue. Nice job.

Juan has 17 ab's in the 2nd slot for the Twins this year too.

.235/.235/.294/.529

At least he's consistent.

d2pmr11
04-23-2005, 02:30 PM
I also have been to Dallas AND I own an umbrella.

Here come a couple smiley faces from aliases. . .

RFS62
04-23-2005, 02:30 PM
Nobody's knocking his throwing game. That was a very athletic move on a pitch he had to adjust on.

Reds Nd2
04-23-2005, 02:32 PM
I'm going to start making a list of usernames, and I'm going to bet they are all coming from the same place.

Hey, WOY, get me a beer while your up. Thanks... :beerme:

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:32 PM
JuanE grounds out to Aurilia, inning over.

Kc61
04-23-2005, 02:32 PM
His velocity returned. Throw out last years numbers, he was only throwing 87mph.

Well, as a first step, let's put him back in the bullpen. He shouldn't be in the rotation.

KronoRed
04-23-2005, 02:33 PM
I have arrived, we may now begin scoring runs ;)

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:34 PM
Casey gets on.....somehow.......as the leadoff hitter.

Randa flies out to deep left. 1 out.

westofyou
04-23-2005, 02:34 PM
Here come a couple smiley faces from aliases. . .

You're wrong all over this thread.

TeamCasey
04-23-2005, 02:35 PM
Yeah! Go Flip!

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:35 PM
Krono! Look what you did!

Lopez HR to left, 4-2 Reds.

lol I'm going to proceed to eat my words over last time.

Matt700wlw
04-23-2005, 02:35 PM
How about that?

KronoRed
04-23-2005, 02:35 PM
I have arrived, we may now begin scoring runs ;)

Rocking :laugh:

Super_Barry11
04-23-2005, 02:35 PM
Whoa baby!! Yeah, Felipe!! :beerme:

BCubb2003
04-23-2005, 02:35 PM
Too bad Lopez wasn't bunting the runner over.

Trace's Daddy
04-23-2005, 02:35 PM
wooohooo!!

Aronchis
04-23-2005, 02:35 PM
Well, as a first step, let's put him back in the bullpen. He shouldn't be in the rotation.

And again my man, why is he IN the rotation? Lets see, Ortiz is injured, so are Hancock and Hudson. The Reds pretty much had no choice and the knuckleballer retread is old news and is something the Reds need to move away from. Patience, patience.

Spring~Fields
04-23-2005, 02:36 PM
Miley make a note: bench Lopez tomorrow

M2
04-23-2005, 02:36 PM
Felipe can swing the bat from the RH side. I still wonder why he switch hits. Yet because he switch hits Miley spot starts him against RHPs.

Reds Nd2
04-23-2005, 02:36 PM
Lopez shoulda' been bunting in that situation. :dancingco

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:37 PM
Too bad Lopez wasn't bunting the runner over.

Just think....a sac bunt last time and it would be 4-3 right now. :p:

Kearns lines out to left, 2 out.

M2
04-23-2005, 02:37 PM
And again my man, why is he IN the rotation? Lets see, Ortiz is injured, so are Hancock and Hudson. The Reds pretty much had no choice and the knuckleballer retread is old news and is something the Reds need to move away from. Patience, patience.

IMO the Reds could get a lot of mileage out of that knuckleballer retread.

TeamCasey
04-23-2005, 02:38 PM
C'mon guys, enough of the sniping.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:38 PM
Aurilia Ks with 2 outs. Inning over.

RosieRed
04-23-2005, 02:40 PM
Okay, who's monitoring the IPs on this thread? WoY is the only one who gets these pats on the back, and they are almost never deserving. I'm going to start making a list of usernames, and I'm going to bet they are all coming from the same place.

Are you serious??

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:41 PM
Todd Coffey on to pitch.

Belisle: 5 IP 7 H 4 ER 0 BB 3 K

Not awful, but not great.

PuffyPig
04-23-2005, 02:41 PM
It's really quite amazing.

Lopez hits a HR, yet the complaining still continues.

Different complaints, but complaints none the less.

I can't beleive that many posting here actually enjoy watching the Reds.

Kc61
04-23-2005, 02:41 PM
And again my man, why is he IN the rotation? Lets see, Ortiz is injured, so are Hancock and Hudson. The Reds pretty much had no choice and the knuckleballer retread is old news and is something the Reds need to move away from. Patience, patience.

Really just a question whether team wants to win now. Jared is no long term answer, but as a stopgap starter during injuries I think he is more likely to succeed than Belisle. Just don't believe a guy who pitched so poorly as a AAA starter last year is ready to make the jump to the rotation.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:41 PM
1st pitch single by Lo Duca. Uh oh.

Mutaman
04-23-2005, 02:41 PM
Okay, who's monitoring the IPs on this thread? WoY is the only one who gets these pats on the back, and they are almost never deserving. I'm going to start making a list of usernames, and I'm going to bet they are all coming from the same place.

I'll take that bet.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:42 PM
Lowell flys out to Freel. 1 out.

Mutaman
04-23-2005, 02:44 PM
I also have been to Dallas AND I own an umbrella.

You are replacing RBA as my favorite Redzoan poster.

Falls City Beer
04-23-2005, 02:44 PM
Umm, Dave. We can still tie this game--and you go to Coffey?

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:45 PM
Holy cow. Lo Duca is out by Willie "Mays" Hayes proportions on a CS at 2nd by LaRue.

M2
04-23-2005, 02:45 PM
It's really quite amazing.

Lopez hits a HR, yet the complaining still continues.

Different complaints, but complaints none the less.

I can't beleive that many posting here actually enjoy watching the Reds.

What are you talking about? I don't see anything of the sort since Felipe's homer.

OnBaseMachine
04-23-2005, 02:46 PM
What are the chances of a guy with Coffey's control walking a total hacker like Gonzalez?

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:47 PM
Gonzalez walks, Willis Ks.

Coffey gets out of trouble for a scoreless inning.

M2
04-23-2005, 02:47 PM
Umm, Dave. We can still tie this game--and you go to Coffey?

Ryan Wagner can't throw every inning. I'm happy to see the kid getting the call here.

OnBaseMachine
04-23-2005, 02:48 PM
That was Todd's first career K.

Falls City Beer
04-23-2005, 02:49 PM
Ryan Wagner can't throw every inning. I'm happy to see the kid getting the call here.

I guess you're right. It is a little early yet for Wagner (if at all). And it is the bottom of the lineup. I left for a while and came back without looking much at the game situation.

94 pitches for Willis. Now's the time to be patient and put a couple guys on before Jack goes to the bullpen. No need got hacking.

Reds Nd2
04-23-2005, 02:49 PM
Line on Belisle:

H K's BB's HBP R's IP
7 3 0 2 4 5

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:49 PM
Nate Bump is in for the Marlins. Line on Willis:

6 IP 6 H 2 ER 2 BB 7 K

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:50 PM
LaRue grounds out to SS. 1 out.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:51 PM
Jiminez to PH for Coffey.

Line on Coffey : 1 IP 1 H 0 ER 1 BB 1 K

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:52 PM
Jimenez with a very nice full count walk.

Reds Nd2
04-23-2005, 02:53 PM
Line on Coffey:

H K's BB's R's IP
1 1 1 0 1

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:53 PM
Freel with a DP, 5-4-3 ,and it wasn't even close.

Did Freel think that ball was foul?

OnBaseMachine
04-23-2005, 02:54 PM
I would move Freel back to 2nd, Lopez to SS, and put Dunn in left.

Nice AB by Jimenez.

TOBTTReds
04-23-2005, 02:54 PM
Surprisingly Freel grounds into double play...did he forget to run (dare I say?). It was a slow chopper to 3rd near the bag and a soft throw to 2nd. Wow

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:56 PM
Davey Weathers in to face the top of the order.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:57 PM
Pierre lines out to Griffey. 1 out.

Marge'sMullet
04-23-2005, 02:57 PM
How did he get doubled up? I think I've seen him run faster on a base on balls.

BTW, Griffey look clueless and frustrated.

Reds Nd2
04-23-2005, 02:57 PM
Surprisingly Freel grounds into double play...did he forget to run (dare I say?). It was a slow chopper to 3rd near the bag and a soft throw to 2nd. Wow

Castillo just made a great turn.

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 02:58 PM
Lopez with a good play to retire Castillo. 2 down.

ws1990reds
04-23-2005, 02:58 PM
How many years until Griffey is playing first base on a regular basis, or riding the pine?

Walkerforpres
04-23-2005, 03:00 PM
Weathers mows down Delgado with a K. Looks good.

4-2 after 7.