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Walkerforpres
04-30-2005, 04:41 PM
Errors do happen. It's why Unearned Runs happen. And the Errors are the reason why they're called "Unearned Runs".

I missed this play that you're debating. Randa hasn't been charged with an error, so what happened?

OnBaseMachine
04-30-2005, 04:42 PM
Aurilia walks.

jason
04-30-2005, 04:42 PM
I missed this play that you're debating. Randa hasn't been charged with an error, so what happened?

The ball took a funny hop off the dirt.

Puffy
04-30-2005, 04:43 PM
YES! Rich Aurila with his fourth walk already this year!

Falls City Beer
04-30-2005, 04:43 PM
I missed this play that you're debating. Randa hasn't been charged with an error, so what happened?

He muffed a hard hit ball. It happens. Littering the basepaths with Brewers shouldn't. I'll grant that the walk to Overbay wasn't his runner, but the rest of the mess was definitely Ryan's. He looked bad, unsure.

RedTeamGo!
04-30-2005, 04:43 PM
Does God have something against the Reds? Why can't they win?

KronoRed
04-30-2005, 04:44 PM
Does God have something against the Reds? Why can't they win?

No he doesn't, he just likes the Brewers to have a team they seem to own :help:

Walkerforpres
04-30-2005, 04:44 PM
The ageless wonder Ricky Bottalico in to pitch to LaRue. Shouldn't be a tough out.

Walkerforpres
04-30-2005, 04:45 PM
hehe Reverse Jinx. There's a single from LaRue.

OnBaseMachine
04-30-2005, 04:45 PM
LaRue singles to left.

SteelSD
04-30-2005, 04:45 PM
Except it was a liner and it was ruled a hit. Again. This is the Brewers. You wanna last in the majors you retire Brewers.

And the fact that the official hometown scorer made an official hometown ruling to give a hometown player a hometown hit means that Joe Randa shouldn't have made that play? Now you're just looking for reasons to blast Wagner. Why, I don't know because he's been even more automatic this season than Joe Randa.

If you want to play 3B in the Majors, you make that play. Kinda the flip side of what you're saying about Wagner's outing. It was Randa that gave the Brewers and extra Out that Inning.

Walkerforpres
04-30-2005, 04:45 PM
Lopez in to hit for the pitcher.

SteelSD
04-30-2005, 04:47 PM
I missed this play that you're debating. Randa hasn't been charged with an error, so what happened?

The ball took a funny hop off Randa's GLOVE is what actually happened. He played it off his side instead of getting in front of the ball and WHOOPS!

Hometown single.

OnBaseMachine
04-30-2005, 04:47 PM
Fielders choice. LaRue out at 2nd. 2 outs.

JaxRed
04-30-2005, 04:48 PM
I can't believe someone watched that inning and thought Randa was the problem.

flyer85
04-30-2005, 04:48 PM
The ball took a funny hop off the dirt.Which wouldn't have mattered if he had got in front of it.

SteelSD
04-30-2005, 04:49 PM
I can't believe someone watched that inning and thought Randa was the problem.

And I can't believe that someone watched that Inning and didn't think that the Inning would have been over had Randa made the play on that ball.

OnBaseMachine
04-30-2005, 04:50 PM
Freel K's on a 3-2 pitch. Inning over.

jason
04-30-2005, 04:52 PM
And I can't believe that someone watched that Inning and didn't think that the Inning would have been over had Randa made the play on that ball.

The inning would have been over just as fast if Wagner would have pitched effectivley.

OrlandoBuckeye
04-30-2005, 04:52 PM
General rule of thumb. If Paul Wilson pitches, the bullpen will implode.

Falls City Beer
04-30-2005, 04:53 PM
Being generous and taking away from Wagner the IBB to Overbay and taking away the "debated hit" and turning it into an error, Wagner STILL allowed three baserunners that inning. That's awful; he looked awful doing it. Not that I blame him that much, he hasn't worked in a few days and when you're asked to shoulder the enttire bullpen like Wagner has so far this season, you're going to break down. That's all. It's one game, but a really crappy one. Get better--that's the lesson.

OnBaseMachine
04-30-2005, 04:55 PM
Hardy flies out, 1 down.

Clark singles to left.

Mercker pitching.

jason
04-30-2005, 04:55 PM
Being generous and taking away from Wagner the IBB to Overbay and taking away the "debated hit" and turning it into an error, Wagner STILL allowed three baserunners that inning. That's awful; he looked awful doing it. Not that I blame him that much, he hasn't worked in a few days and when you're asked to shoulder the enttire bullpen like Wagner has so far this season, you're going to break down. That's all. It's one game, but a really crappy one. Get better--that's the lesson.

Amen! Couldn't have said it any better.

Falls City Beer
04-30-2005, 04:55 PM
Oh, by the way, I sure love that they took Kearns out of the game. Not like we'll need his bat or anything.

OnBaseMachine
04-30-2005, 04:56 PM
Hall flies out to deep left, 2 down.

OnBaseMachine
04-30-2005, 04:59 PM
Jenkins K's looking. Inning over.

Griffey/Casey/PH due up. Sure would be nice to have Kearnsie batting 3rd this inning.

KronoRed
04-30-2005, 05:00 PM
Please tell me it will be Pena pinch hitting

Falls City Beer
04-30-2005, 05:01 PM
Please tell me it will be Pena pinch hitting

Something tells me the kid's hurt. Bad.

OnBaseMachine
04-30-2005, 05:02 PM
Griffey groundout on 1st pitch.

Casey walks on 4 pitches.

KronoRed
04-30-2005, 05:03 PM
Something tells me the kid's hurt. Bad.

Hope not, but have we seen him since he hurt his back?


Go Cruz!! just who I would have sent up ;)

OnBaseMachine
04-30-2005, 05:03 PM
Cruz PH.

Cruz singles Casey to 2nd.

gitrdunn44
04-30-2005, 05:03 PM
Why Cruz and not Pena? Hey he singled nevermind.

gitrdunn44
04-30-2005, 05:05 PM
C'mon Dunn break this tie!

SteelSD
04-30-2005, 05:05 PM
The inning would have been over just as fast if Wagner would have pitched effectivley.

His charge was to acquire three Outs.

Clark Flied Out. There's one.

Randa booted Hall's grounder. There's two.

Lee grounded Out. There's three.

SteelSD
04-30-2005, 05:06 PM
Oh, by the way, I sure love that they took Kearns out of the game. Not like we'll need his bat or anything.

Now, that was stupid. I'm with ya' there.

Walkerforpres
04-30-2005, 05:06 PM
Way to look at a pitch, Dunn.

BCubb2003
04-30-2005, 05:06 PM
This closer looks like Napoleon Dynamite.

gitrdunn44
04-30-2005, 05:07 PM
Out on 1st pitch not good.

OnBaseMachine
04-30-2005, 05:08 PM
That's the third time since last night that Dunn has swung and got out on the first pitch. Go back to your patient approach.

Walkerforpres
04-30-2005, 05:08 PM
Turnbow's got potential, but he's an Angels reject and throws nothin' but heat. Reds are making him look like Lidge.

jason
04-30-2005, 05:09 PM
His charge was to acquire three Outs.

Clark Flied Out. There's one.

Randa booted Hall's grounder. There's two.

Lee grounded Out. There's three.

Wagner and Randa both screwed up simple as that.

Walkerforpres
04-30-2005, 05:10 PM
Randa with a very nice AB there. Unfortunately it brings up Richie Rich.

SteelSD
04-30-2005, 05:11 PM
Wagner and Randa both screwed up simple as that.

I wish Randa would have acquired the second Out of the Inning and I wish that Wagner had acquired the fourth Out of the Inning before he did.

gitrdunn44
04-30-2005, 05:11 PM
:aurilia: You can do this Rich!

Dunner44
04-30-2005, 05:12 PM
strike looking

SteelSD
04-30-2005, 05:12 PM
I often wonder if Aurilia's middle name is "Can-o-Corn".

Dunner44
04-30-2005, 05:12 PM
and a fly out ends the inning

Falls City Beer
04-30-2005, 05:12 PM
I can't stand Aurilia. I mean, it's just painful.

jason
04-30-2005, 05:14 PM
I wish Randa would have acquired the second Out of the Inning and I wish that Wagner had acquired the fourth Out of the Inning before he did.

I wish Wagner wouldn't have walked 3 guys. We could play this game all day, but both simply made mistakes.

Falls City Beer
04-30-2005, 05:14 PM
Crap. Valentine. Can we forfeit?

OnBaseMachine
04-30-2005, 05:15 PM
Lee singles.

SteelSD
04-30-2005, 05:16 PM
I wish Wagner wouldn't have walked 3 guys. We could play this game all day, but both simply made mistakes.

Wagner didn't walk three guys. He walked one and Miley asked him to walk Overbay.

OnBaseMachine
04-30-2005, 05:16 PM
The Reds have blown leads of 6-1 and 5-1 in the last 3 days.

RedTeamGo!
04-30-2005, 05:16 PM
this game is ending in the 9th....i hate this WHY CANT THEY WIN!!!!!?????

Dunner44
04-30-2005, 05:17 PM
Valentine? I know Danny gives people heart attacks, but Joe has been no better (6.00 ERA). Are they saving Danny IN CASE they get to the 10th? Joe has already opened up the 9th with a single... Danny does the same, but he has been consistent. Dave has "confidence" in him, but if you don't play your closer here, you should trade him. This is where the closer mentality is needed. I wish we would trade danny.

Walkerforpres
04-30-2005, 05:17 PM
The end is nigh.

jason
04-30-2005, 05:18 PM
It's become a game of small ball.

KronoRed
04-30-2005, 05:18 PM
Val has set up the triple play

Dunner44
04-30-2005, 05:18 PM
and he serves up a walk... are we sure this isn't just graves in disguise?

Falls City Beer
04-30-2005, 05:18 PM
Danny's lame, but Valentine is brutal.

OnBaseMachine
04-30-2005, 05:18 PM
Overbay walks. This one is all but over.

Kc61
04-30-2005, 05:19 PM
Why on earth would you pitch Valentine in the ninth inning here?

Dunner44
04-30-2005, 05:19 PM
trying to bunt the runners over now... i hope jason makes a good play

SteelSD
04-30-2005, 05:19 PM
And now Valentine could have had the lead runner, but just plain screws it up.

Spring~Fields
04-30-2005, 05:20 PM
Miley fundamentals, got to love them. :thumbdown

Dunner44
04-30-2005, 05:20 PM
i give up

Walkerforpres
04-30-2005, 05:20 PM
This club must lack a collective brain. Miley for bringing Valentine in here, Valentine himself for 1.) throwing a gut-high fastball to a guy who's obviously bunting, and then not being able to compose himself long enough to field a ball and get the easy out.
Branyan is set up for a bases-juiced walk or a bases-juiced HR.

What a crapfest of a team.

SanDiegoRed
04-30-2005, 05:21 PM
San Diego Red = scared

Puffy
04-30-2005, 05:21 PM
Joe Valentine, meet your new teammates, the High A Dayton Dragons.

RedSchmo2
04-30-2005, 05:22 PM
It's official. April is over and this team is pitiful. Plain pitiful.

BCubb2003
04-30-2005, 05:22 PM
The fans can give up but the players have to keep playing.

TeamCasey
04-30-2005, 05:22 PM
I'm not sure I can watch anymore.

KronoRed
04-30-2005, 05:22 PM
Please..no suicide squeezes

Dunner44
04-30-2005, 05:22 PM
with the count at 2 and 2 valentine hits branyan to score the winning run (this didn't actually happen, but with our luck...)

Walkerforpres
04-30-2005, 05:22 PM
Please tell me someone who can induce ground balls is in the pen just in case Branyan Ks here.

flyer85
04-30-2005, 05:22 PM
i hear bells

TeamCasey
04-30-2005, 05:23 PM
I haven't given up. I'm peeking through my fingers.

Dunner44
04-30-2005, 05:23 PM
fly out... no pulse left

Walkerforpres
04-30-2005, 05:23 PM
Where the heck is Weathers? Graves? Anyone that can throw a strike or a sinker?

TeamCasey
04-30-2005, 05:23 PM
Torment.

gitrdunn44
04-30-2005, 05:23 PM
1 out. Truely amazing.

KronoRed
04-30-2005, 05:24 PM
TC it all went south when you left chat..come back! ;)

SteelSD
04-30-2005, 05:25 PM
Game over.

redsfanmia
04-30-2005, 05:25 PM
Here we go again.

jason
04-30-2005, 05:25 PM
I don't know who to blame this one on. Miley, Joe R., Joe V., or Wagner.

Dunner44
04-30-2005, 05:25 PM
all over

Petitt33
04-30-2005, 05:25 PM
This is getting old.

CTA513
04-30-2005, 05:25 PM
Valentines a joke, send him back to the minors.

gitrdunn44
04-30-2005, 05:25 PM
:bang:

flyer85
04-30-2005, 05:26 PM
abysmal ... that says it all

Dunner44
04-30-2005, 05:26 PM
Ryan's era went from .71 to 3.65.... yuck

Walkerforpres
04-30-2005, 05:26 PM
I'm starting to think about Miley's departure. He might be a "player's manager" and a front office fav, but if this were anything resembling a competitive team with a competitive-minded front office with a competitive manager, he'd be warmin' up the hotseat right now and looking over his shoulder. Just mistake after mistake after common sensical mistake.

flyer85
04-30-2005, 05:27 PM
I don't know who to blame this one on. Miley, Joe R., Joe V., or Wgner.DanO

Falls City Beer
04-30-2005, 05:28 PM
Wagner and Valentine blew corn. But this team sucks so bad in the pitching department, it all becomes a blur.

Walkerforpres
04-30-2005, 05:28 PM
I just cannot wait until Monday until I get to actually be there to watch the Cards further embarrass Milton and the rest of the club. :)

SteelSD
04-30-2005, 05:28 PM
DanO

Yup.

flyer85
04-30-2005, 05:30 PM
Yup.But a lot of people bought into the magic elixir he was selling in the off season.

Falls City Beer
04-30-2005, 05:32 PM
But a lot of people bought into the magic elixir he was selling in the off season.

What if you're like me and didn't buy the elixir, but think this team ought to be able to beat a Brewers team when you have a four run lead in the seventh?

flyer85
04-30-2005, 05:35 PM
What if you're like me and didn't buy the elixir, but think this team ought to be able to beat a Brewers team with a four run lead in the seventh?Why should they be able to beat the Brewers? The Reds may be better but not by much. The Brewers brought two guys out of the pen throwing 96+ mph. I don't see anyone on the Reds with an arm like that.

Falls City Beer
04-30-2005, 05:37 PM
Why should they be able to beat the Brewers? The Reds may be better but not by much. The Brewers brought two guys out of the pen throwing 96+ mph. I don't see anyone on the Reds with an arm like that.

Valentine and Wagner both throw comparable heat. It's not that hard: beat the Brewers if you have a four run lead on them in the seventh.

RedTeamGo!
04-30-2005, 05:37 PM
Anyone else ready for the a fire sale? time to get rid of griffey, graves and casey for whatever the hell we can get. money, peanuts, a bag of balls...anything.

flyer85
04-30-2005, 05:37 PM
At least the complaint about about losing because of tough pitching is now gone. Lost three in a row in games started by Dempster, Glover and Obermueller.

Falls City Beer
04-30-2005, 05:40 PM
At least the complaint about about losing because of tough pitching is now gone. Lost three in a row in games started by Dempster, Glover and Obermueller.

Sure, and our offense got to two of those guys pretty well. If you're complaining about the offense on this team you're severely misguided. This team has zero moxie. They are allergic to bearing down.

flyer85
04-30-2005, 05:41 PM
Valentine and Wagner both throw comparable heat. It's not that hard: beat the Brewers if you have a four run lead on them in the seventh.There is a big difference between 91-92 and 96-97. Those two Brewer relievers were above hitting speed. Actually I like both Valentine and Wagner. They will both be good pitchers, they are young and need more experience. However, DanO blew a chunk of change of 5-6 pitchers who aren't very good and won't be getting better.

Falls City Beer
04-30-2005, 05:42 PM
It's official. April is over and this team is pitiful. Plain pitiful.

This is the first time in a long time I've conceded a season in April. I usually last till mid-May. But the goose is cooked early this year. Vaya con dios.

Falls City Beer
04-30-2005, 05:43 PM
There is a big difference between 91-92 and 96-97. Those two Brewer relievers were above hitting speed. Actually I like both Valentine and Wagner. They will both be good pitchers, they are young and need more experience. However, DanO blew a chunk of change of 5-6 pitchers who aren't very good and won't be getting better.

Valentine throws 94-95 with regularity.

flyer85
04-30-2005, 05:43 PM
Sure, and our offense got to two of those guys pretty well. If you're complaining about the offense on this team you're severely misguided. This team has zero moxie. They are allergic to bearing down.The offense was never the problem. The problem is that our pitching isn't any better than the Dempsters and Glovers of the world. Our starters any when they throw well are done at 6 innings. Every time you have to go the pen you never know when someone will have an off day.

NCRed
04-30-2005, 05:46 PM
this is just sad. Outside of the Cardinals there is no offense in NL Central to fear. Inferior pitching is what this is and as FCB says, the team has no fight in them. Its early but that only means that it will be a long depressing summer. This team is done until Management changes. Miley is too nice a guy to light a fire under these guys.

Just my 2cents but Im tired of ineptness on the reds part.

Falls City Beer
04-30-2005, 05:49 PM
Anyone else ready for the a fire sale? time to get rid of griffey, graves and casey for whatever the hell we can get. money, peanuts, a bag of balls...anything.

Are you sure you want DanO overseeing a fire sale? I mean take a deep breath for a second.

traderumor
04-30-2005, 05:50 PM
And I thought they played tonight, caught the game just in time to see a 5-1 lead and Griffey and Casey strikeout. Then, Wagner implode.

On Randa, that was a bad hop, and he has developed the sidestep technique, usually without issue, but if "fundy" is really fundamentally sound, he would keep his body in front of the ball, esp. in the late innings, and still have time to throw out the runner for a 1-2-3 inning. Of course, Wagner imploded from there, everything was up, couldn't throw the slider for strikes.

Miley needs an exorcism done for the spirit of Bob Boone. Where does Kearns go? Well , of course, you remove your best outfielder and cleanup hitter just so he can turn the order over? C'mon, I'm all for a double switch to delay the pitcher's spot anticipating two innings, but with a 5-1 lead, why worry about your pitcher possibly coming up in the next inning? And continuing to play Aurilia is absurd at this point. From reading through the game thread, he left at least 6 men on base. Just no excuse for not playing Felipe.

Valentine should be on the waiver wire. Quit letting bad pitchers collect paychecks at any level. He's had opportunities and not impressed, although he did appear to have turned a corner at the beginning of the season.

What more do you say at this point?

CincyRedsFan30
04-30-2005, 05:51 PM
As much as I disliked/dislike him, Bowden would at least have sent some players down and called others up after this loss.

We know O'Brien is unlikely to do that no matter what. :rolleyes:

Reds/Flyers Fan
04-30-2005, 05:52 PM
I just cannot wait until Monday until I get to actually be there to watch the Cards further embarrass Milton and the rest of the club. :)

Milton vs. the Cardinals

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Falls City Beer
04-30-2005, 05:53 PM
Milton vs. the Cardinals

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I think I'll schedule a root canal for 6:45 p.m. Monday.

flyer85
04-30-2005, 05:56 PM
Just my 2cents but Im tired of ineptness on the reds part.All I see is crappy pitching of historic proportions(like last year). I too am tired of it, however, DanO came to a fork during the past year and has went down the wrong path. He is travelling 180 degrees in the wrong direction and every day the Reds continue down that path makes the recovery longer.

Give Dano another year and a half and the Reds will have a future similar to the Pirates and Brewers, losing seasons as far as the eye can see.

CTA513
04-30-2005, 05:56 PM
Milton vs. the Cardinals

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

It will be 15-0 after the 1st.

flyer85
04-30-2005, 05:57 PM
As much as I disliked/dislike him, Bowden would at least have sent some players down and called others up after this loss.

We know O'Brien is unlikely to do that no matter what. :rolleyes:To DanO a big move means he is going to have to wipe.

flyer85
04-30-2005, 06:00 PM
Are you sure you want DanO overseeing a fire sale? I mean take a deep breath for a second.Not going to happen anyway, that would mean than DanO would be admitting he has been screwing up for the last year. If DanO hold a fire sale here is more likely to trade the likes of Dunn and WMP than the dead weight.

CincyRedsFan30
04-30-2005, 06:06 PM
To DanO a big move means he is going to have to wipe.

Sad but true.

Ravenlord
04-30-2005, 06:09 PM
after skimming through this thread, the only conlcusion i can come up with is that people way undervalue much of the Brewers hitters.

traderumor
04-30-2005, 06:11 PM
As much as I disliked/dislike him, Bowden would at least have sent some players down and called others up after this loss.

We know O'Brien is unlikely to do that no matter what. :rolleyes:

And how did that work out? Did it help? Do we now have better pitchers using that method? Were many of these hacks either brought here by Bowden or are the types that he would have brought here were he still the man?

I think DanO's abilities to find pitching is brought into question as he is repeating the same mistakes that got Bowden fired, but please don't romanticize his tenure considering that joker of a GM is highly responsible for this mess of an organization, esp. the pitching mess...

traderumor
04-30-2005, 06:12 PM
after skimming through this thread, the only conlcusion i can come up with is that people way undervalue much of the Brewers hitters.With all due respect, RL, the Brewers were last in the league in hitting when I checked Wednesday. And Wednesday, I predicted we would make them look like Harvey's Wallbangers. Sure enough...

Ravenlord
04-30-2005, 06:14 PM
look at the Giants, for the last three (?) years they have had 3 or 4 hitters who didn't suck. Brewers are the same way. difference is Ned Yost makes Miley's line-up construction look like Starry Night.

CincyRedsFan30
04-30-2005, 06:15 PM
And how did that work out? Did it help? Do we now have better pitchers using that method? Were many of these hacks either brought here by Bowden or are the types that he would have brought here were he still the man?

I think DanO's abilities to find pitching is brought into question as he is repeating the same mistakes that got Bowden fired, but please don't romanticize his tenure considering that joker of a GM is highly responsible for this mess of an organization, esp. the pitching mess...

No offense, but I think you're missing the point.

I'm not "romanticizing" Bowden's tenure, because I think he was awful and I do realize that he was part of what put the organization in the place it is at now. However, I was just trying to illustrate that he at least tried to do something to light some fire under the team when it performed as poorly as this team has lately.

I'm not saying the moves he made helped the team become good or anything, but at least he tried to shake things up a little bit.

traderumor
04-30-2005, 06:15 PM
look at the Giants, for the last three (?) years they have had 3 or 4 hitters who didn't suck. Brewers are the same way. difference is Ned Yost makes Miley's line-up construction look like Starry Night.Yost is a good manager.

Ravenlord
04-30-2005, 06:19 PM
Yost is a good manager.i agree, i just don't think he's good at constructing a line-up. i would much rather have Yost than Miley.

traderumor
04-30-2005, 06:23 PM
No offense, but I think you're missing the point.

I'm not "romanticizing" Bowden's tenure, because I think he was awful and I do realize that he was part of what put the organization in the place it is at now, but I was just trying to illustrate that he at least tried to do something to light some fire under the team when it performed as poorly as this team has lately.

I'm not saying the moves he made helped the team become good or anything, but at least he tried to shake things up a little bit.NO offense taken, but I got the point you were trying to make, and I contend that kind of stuff doesn't really change anything when things are in this bad of shape. When Sparky moved Rose to third and inserted Foster in left, that was a shakeup, and it turned a pretty darn good team into an all-time great team. Here, we are talking about problems that have deep roots. Sure, you can start the bus on the Louisville shuttle, and maybe you'll have some short term success, but then the guys you bring up were in AAA for a reason, so the truth doesn't take very long to come out. We're talking about cancer with the Reds pitching situation, and shaking things up in that manner is little more than giving the patient sugar pills. You really want to shake things up? Pay whatever it costs in talent to get one good pitcher. Just go get one good pitcher. Then, we'll go from there.

CincyRedsFan30
04-30-2005, 06:26 PM
NO offense taken, but I got the point you were trying to make, and I contend that kind of stuff doesn't really change anything when things are in this bad of shape. When Sparky moved Rose to third and inserted Foster in left, that was a shakeup, and it turned a pretty darn good team into an all-time great team. Here, we are talking about problems that have deep roots. Sure, you can start the bus on the Louisville shuttle, and maybe you'll have some short term success, but then the guys you bring up were in AAA for a reason, so the truth doesn't take very long to come out. We're talking about cancer with the Reds pitching situation, and shaking things up in that manner is little more than giving the patient sugar pills. You really want to shake things up? Pay whatever it costs in talent to get one good pitcher. Just go get one good pitcher. Then, we'll go from there.

I agree with you on all of this.

However, I'd rather see O'Brien trying something than to do nothing at all but sitting around watching this team lose game after game after game.

RosieRed
04-30-2005, 06:31 PM
Sorry guys. :(

traderumor
04-30-2005, 06:33 PM
Sorry guys. :(That's OK, I'm the jinx. I started Wednesday's thread and then everything was fine until I started watching today. :(

traderumor
04-30-2005, 06:39 PM
I agree with you on all of this.

However, I'd rather see O'Brien trying something than to do nothing at all but sitting around watching this team lose game after game after game.

It is frustrating knowing that he is unlikely to try and do anything about it. I mean, if I were calling the shots, I would reward Keisler for a good spring and very good showing in AAA so far and switch he and Valentine. Coffey is likely gone with Ortiz coming back tomorrow. But the real change is major surgery to keep the cancer from spreading. I'm afraid we needed to see that when he took over if he were going to go that route. What did we get? "Pitching to contact," which as M2 so eloquently put last season, is "pitching to disaster." We need radiation, DanO, you have given us placebos.

Bam-Bam
04-30-2005, 07:59 PM
After following this team my whole life, and living thru the slow torture of the last few years. I am convinced if there was a one game win you're in the playoff's situation. We would not make it if we had to beat the cubs, brewers, or astros. And I don't think we'll even show up if we had to play the cardinals!!! I'll give us a 50-50 chance against the pirates. After watching that game today and pretty much all year, you never feel good till the games over. You know no lead is safe and when we're down and have runner in scoring position. You know LaRue will strike out and the pinch-hitter will groundout!!! The sad part is we can't beat the brewers now, what's going to happen when all their prospects come up from AAA(Weeks, Fielder, Hart, Nelson). :bang:

balk
04-30-2005, 08:30 PM
And how did that work out? Did it help? Do we now have better pitchers using that method? Were many of these hacks either brought here by Bowden or are the types that he would have brought here were he still the man?

I think DanO's abilities to find pitching is brought into question as he is repeating the same mistakes that got Bowden fired, but please don't romanticize his tenure considering that joker of a GM is highly responsible for this mess of an organization, esp. the pitching mess...

Milton, Ortiz, Harang, Claussen, Valentine, Belisle, Weathers, Weber are post-Bowden pickups.

Wilson, Graves, Wagner and Coffey are Bowden.

Not sure of the conclusion to draw. All I know is......we didn't get the return we should have for Williamson and Boone, which were both post-Bowden and pre-OB trades.