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klw
05-09-2005, 05:15 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/3601644

From Ken Rosenthal's latest posting. It mentions the Braves, Royals, and Nationals as interested. Griffey blurb leads the piece with Kearns section a few paragraphs down.

pedro
05-09-2005, 05:17 PM
The Braves remain interested in Reds OF Austin Kearns, who also is on the Royals' and Nationals' wish lists. The Reds, however, don't want to trade Kearns until he increases his value to the point where they will get a quality pitcher in return.

then maybe they ought to play him instead of Rich Aurilia.

deltachi8
05-09-2005, 05:19 PM
then maybe they ought to play him instead of Rich Aurilia.

what and use common sense?

of course is AK a gamer like RA? :evil:

Matt700wlw
05-09-2005, 05:19 PM
then maybe they ought to play him instead of Rich Aurilia.

There's a thought...

westofyou
05-09-2005, 05:20 PM
The Braves have some bad OF's.

Here are the guys with the worst Runs Created Vs the League in the NL so far.


WORST
1 Jack Wilson -12
T2 Marquis Grissom -10
T2 J.J. Hardy -10
T4 Royce Clayton -9
T4 Cristian Guzman -9
T4 Quinton McCracken -9
T4 Yadier Molina -9
T8 J.D. Closser -8
T8 Brian Jordan -8
T8 Raul Mondesi -8
T8 Tike Redman -8
T8 Ty Wigginton -8

KronoRed
05-09-2005, 05:20 PM
I hope for Austins sake the A's come calling for him.

Tommyjohn25
05-09-2005, 05:21 PM
Hmmm...interesting stuff, if this has any validity at all it seems that Kearns will not be a Red by the end of the season assuming he plays to his potential. While moving him may or may not be good for the team he is my favorite player, and I for one would miss him.

Petitt33
05-09-2005, 05:23 PM
I hope for Austins sake the A's come calling for him.

Yeah, I'd love for the Reds to make a run at one of the A's young guns such as Blanton or Haren. But I highly doubt they'd give up either one.

WVPacman
05-09-2005, 05:23 PM
I don't like trading with the Braves it seems we get burned everytime we trade with them.What do you think we would get in return from the Nationals?? JB always liked Kearns.

KronoRed
05-09-2005, 05:24 PM
Jimbo has nothing we want, the pitchers he has that are good make too much money for us.

johngalt
05-09-2005, 05:24 PM
The Braves have been after him for some time now. Perhaps we could aim for position prospects too - Brian McCann perhaps as part of it.

Honestly, we need a pitcher out of the deal but that shouldn't be the only focus.

Tommyjohn25
05-09-2005, 05:30 PM
I will say this, the Braves outfield is getting to be atrocious with Brian Jordan and Mondesi running out there. So the value Kearns could possibly bring to them is probably very enticing to the Braves brass. That being said, I agree that I don't like our team trading with the Braves, we always seem to get shafted whenever we deal with them. I say, and some may argue, that if he returns to the rookie Kearns form we don't deal him for anything less than a SOLID number two.

flyer85
05-09-2005, 05:32 PM
trading one of the young OFs isn't going to do anything to help in the short help. The Reds need at a minimun of 6-7 new pitchers. The farm system is also devoid of OF prospects for the most part. The only one at the moment is Dickerson who is 23 at High A.

smith288
05-09-2005, 05:32 PM
The Bong jokes ran for a while...isnt that worth something in the Reitsma deal??? :D

KronoRed
05-09-2005, 05:34 PM
The Bong jokes ran for a while...isnt that worth something in the Reitsma deal??? :D

That and exBraves dad :D

WVPacman
05-09-2005, 05:37 PM
The Bong jokes ran for a while...isnt that worth something in the Reitsma deal??? :D

LOL,nobody will forget about Bong and the Bong jokes. :laugh:

Crash Davis
05-09-2005, 05:37 PM
The Braves remain interested in Reds OF Austin Kearns, who also is on the Royals' and Nationals' wish lists. The Reds, however, don't want to trade Kearns until he increases his value to the point where they will get a quality pitcher in return.

Of course the Braves want Austin Kearns. If I was running a first class operation, I'd be looking to steal Kearns away from a team that doesn't value him as much as I do. He'd make a very nice fit as the RF and cleanup batter for the Braves.

You know what? Good for them. We don't need Kearns. We have Rich Aurilia.

Tommyjohn25
05-09-2005, 05:38 PM
trading one of the young OFs isn't going to do anything to help in the short help. The Reds need at a minimun of 6-7 new pitchers. The farm system is also devoid of OF prospects for the most part. The only one at the moment is Dickerson who is 23 at High A.

I agree, I think trading any one of our young three (pena, dunn, kearns) would be nothing but a step back, for many reasons including the one you stated above about our farm system outfielders. I do not however, have an easy solution to our surplus of outfielders right now. Although I do know that RA doesn't need to start in front of FeLo in turn letting Freel play second which in turn would allow us to at least make the competition between Kearns and Pena again. Which I suppose is at least a baby step in the right direction.

flyer85
05-09-2005, 05:43 PM
When you 6-7 pitchers away you are not going to be competitive this year, unlikely to be in 2006, so you have to shoot for 2007. By then the problem(too many OF/1B) will have been long solved.

Of course the smart answer is to solve it now by finding new homes for Jr and Casey, which is not possible with our current GM, because it would take some real creative thinking. Something that is obviously not a strong suit for DanO(not sure he has a strong suit)

Red Leader
05-09-2005, 05:55 PM
Trading Kearns.
Possible returns.
WAS-not really any "package" that would interest me.
KC- What about Justin Huber, is he still catching, or did they move him to 1B.
ATL- Brian McCann tops my list. I would center a deal around him I like him that much. Toss in a nice upside arm, and you'd have a deal.

flyer85
05-09-2005, 05:56 PM
KC- What about Justin Huber, is he still catching, or did they move him to 1B.moved to 1B

I'd rather package Randa to the Dodgers for Navarro or Martin

TheBurn
05-09-2005, 05:59 PM
If it is going to happen, anything other than a top pitcher would be a step back, IMO.

traderumor
05-09-2005, 06:00 PM
I would imagine that we would end up with someone like Horacio Ramirez from the Braves for Kearns. And that is probably about the best they have to offer of someone that would come in immediately to our rotation. Only problem is he isn't very good, like Brandon Claussen not very good.

RedlegJake
05-09-2005, 06:41 PM
After seeing this off season DanO's judgement of player's abilities I think I'll hope he doesn't trade any of young outfielders. We'd wind up with more Ortiz/Weathers/Mercker/Weber/Milton type arms.

striker42
05-09-2005, 06:45 PM
Braves fan here. Brian McCann? Y'all do aim high don't y'all. McCann is among, if not the, best catching prospect in the game. He has 30 HR power, will hit .300 and has been compared to Jason Varitek as far as being a team leader. He's also probably 4th on the Braves list of untouchable prospects.
Jeff Francoeur- Next face of the franchise
Andy Marte- Possibly the game's best prospect
Kyle Davies- Will step into the rotation next year but could do it now if a trade makes it neccesary
Brian McCann

My guess would be Horacio Ramirez would be the biggest part of a deal. He's also far, far better than Claussen. Frank Robinson compared him to a young Tom Glavine. I don't think he's that good but he's still a very good young lefty. He probably tops out as a very good number 3 starter or a solid number 2. He's also capable of a 3.50 or maybe even lower ERA right now. I would think the Braves would throw in another prospect to sweeten the deal. Macay McBride, lefty who most likely is destined as a dominant lefty reliever, is one. Scott Thorman, lefty first baseman with light tower power, is blocked in the Braves system and could also be an option. McCann for Kearns is a bit much.

Falls City Beer
05-09-2005, 06:49 PM
Major leaguers who produce are almost ALWAYS worth more than any prospect. With Atlanta's stank offense, you'd think McCann could crack the lineup, if he's all that and a bacon burger.

OnBaseMachine
05-09-2005, 06:53 PM
I don't want Horacio Ramirez.

High WHIP and bad walk/K rate(115 BB/144 K in 272 innings).

I want McCann or Davies as the center piece of a deal for Kearns.

Red Leader
05-09-2005, 06:54 PM
Thanks for your input, striker. My question to you is this. If the Braves are 2 games out of the NL East lead come the trade deadline in July and Kearns is sorely needed, don't you think the Braves would include McCann in a deal? They already have Estrada...

I realize that even if both Mondesi and Jordan get hurt you could probably start Andruw, Chipper, and Lagerhans in the OF and play Marte at 3B, or Marte in the OF for that matter, but all I'm saying is that if the Braves FO decided Kearns was the player they want, I think they'd be willing to deal McCann for him.

Tony Cloninger
05-09-2005, 06:54 PM
I think some of these Braves pitchers, that are propsects, just pitch better under Mazzone. He seems to know what he is doing :thumbup: .... while the pitching gurus of this organization seem to turn everyone they touch into Ben Hayes circa 1983 clones.

OldXOhio
05-09-2005, 07:00 PM
I'd rather see DanO give Casey and/or Junior away (literally for a A ball prospect) than to trade Kearns at this juncture. As mentioned above, I think the best you get for AK is a H. Ramirez type and that doesn't have the look of anything that will brighten the future.

Truth be told, just stay away from the Braves altogether. It'd be another case of highway robbery. Keep in mind, there's a reason Schuerholz is said to be targeting AK.

Crash Davis
05-09-2005, 07:32 PM
Braves fan here. Brian McCann? Y'all do aim high don't y'all. McCann is among, if not the, best catching prospect in the game. He has 30 HR power, will hit .300 and has been compared to Jason Varitek as far as being a team leader. He's also probably 4th on the Braves list of untouchable prospects.
Jeff Francoeur- Next face of the franchise
Andy Marte- Possibly the game's best prospect
Kyle Davies- Will step into the rotation next year but could do it now if a trade makes it neccesary
Brian McCann

My guess would be Horacio Ramirez would be the biggest part of a deal. He's also far, far better than Claussen. Frank Robinson compared him to a young Tom Glavine. I don't think he's that good but he's still a very good young lefty. He probably tops out as a very good number 3 starter or a solid number 2. He's also capable of a 3.50 or maybe even lower ERA right now. I would think the Braves would throw in another prospect to sweeten the deal. Macay McBride, lefty who most likely is destined as a dominant lefty reliever, is one. Scott Thorman, lefty first baseman with light tower power, is blocked in the Braves system and could also be an option. McCann for Kearns is a bit much.

Boy, McCann sounds a lot like Steve Lomasney did in '99 or Kelly Shoppach did in '03.

And the face of your franchise better learn to take a walk more often than once every three weeks.

I think we'll keep a legit big league talent like Kearns, thank you very much.

striker42
05-09-2005, 07:39 PM
My question to you is this. If the Braves are 2 games out of the NL East lead come the trade deadline in July and Kearns is sorely needed, don't you think the Braves would include McCann in a deal? They already have Estrada...

I think it would be a possibility. Not because of Estrada but because of Jarrod Saltalamacchia. Salty is a big, young power hitting catcher. We're talking 35+ HR power. He's still a ways away and the Braves could stick with Estrada until he's ready but they would much rather have McCann who will be ready to start sometime around the end of 2006 or begining of 2007 than wait another year or two after that for Salty. If McCann isn't traded, Salty would most likely be moved to the outfield or maybe first since McCann is superior behind the plate.

Estrada isn't that young and with the way catchers go, will probably start to decline in a couple of years. The Braves would rather have a replacement lined up by the time Estrada gets expensive than wait for Salty. But, the Braves do have Salty and Estrada and could trade McCann. It would be hard though because McCann is such a great leader. Between him and Francoeur, the Braves clubhouse would be set for years to come.

westofyou
05-09-2005, 07:42 PM
Salty is a big, young power hitting catcher.

Tyler Sam Houston says hello.

schroomytunes
05-09-2005, 07:56 PM
If I trade Kearns to the Braves these are my targets in order:

1)Brian McCann-AA catcher 21
2)Kyle Davies-AAA SP 21
3)Horacio Ramirez-ML SP 26
4)Kelly Johnson-AAA OF 23
5)Brayan Pena-AAA C 23
6)Brady Endl-A+ P 23
7)Chuck James-A+ P 23

And if I'm DanO I dont sign off till I have at least 2 off this list; and 1 of them has to be #1 or #2. I'm betting our best case scenerio is going to be #3 and #4. Which isn't all that bad, seeing Ramirez would hold down a spot for awhile, but I still hold out for Schurholz give up hopefully Davies and one other.

striker42
05-09-2005, 08:22 PM
but I still hold out for Schurholz give up hopefully Davies and one other.

Don't hold your breath. Davies alone? Long shot. Davies and someone else? Aint gonna happen. It's believed that the Tum Hudson deal would have derailed had Beane asked for Davies. That's how high the Braves rank him. I would believe that Hudson is a good bit more valuable than Kearns so Davies is unlikely.

Chuck James is an interesting one. He's a text book crafty lefty. Compared to a pre-Coors Hampton. He's an interesting one. The guy I'd target if I was your GM is LHP Jake Stevens. He dominated low-A last year at a pretty young age. He's gotten off to a bit of a slow start this year but I have no doubt he'll come around. He has a mid 90's fastball but what sets him apart is his knuckle curve. Kinda like a left handed AJ Burnett. I'd also target RHP Anthony Lerew. He throws 96-97 consistantly with okay off speed stuff. He projects as at least a number 3 starter or an absolutely dominant reliever. He looked very good out of the pen in spring training and could be ready to contribute there by the second half.
On others on your list. Bryan Pena has great numbers at the plate but he is one terrible catcher. Trust me, you don't want him. He just aint got the glove to play behind the plate. I don't know much on Brady Endl. Not really a top prospect though. Kelly Johnson is another I'd try to squeeze out of the Braves. He has a sweet lefty seing that projects 25 HR power and he can play almost anywhere.

Your most likely scenario of Ramirez and Johnson is actually pretty realistic.

BrooklynRedz
05-09-2005, 09:54 PM
Horacio Ramirez ... probably tops out as a very good number 3 starter or a solid number 2. He's also capable of a 3.50 or maybe even lower ERA right now.

Under Gullett, that translates to a very poor number 5 starter, capable of a 5.50 or higher ERA.

Any chance we can trade Kearns for Mazzone?

KearnsyEars
05-09-2005, 09:59 PM
Man this is just awful. I really would like to see the Reds build around Kearns and Dunn....but I suppose we will have to get rid of one or the other. Now I say we should just build around Adam Dunn, which means lock him up to a LTC now!

Edd Roush
05-09-2005, 10:35 PM
Man this is just awful. I really would like to see the Reds build around Kearns and Dunn....but I suppose we will have to get rid of one or the other. Now I say we should just build around Adam Dunn, which means lock him up to a LTC now!

Don't lose sleep over it... these are just rumors. They went on all winter long and probably will continue until Dunn, Pena, Kearns or Griff are traded. These rumors have very little probability to play out. So don't worry and enjoy Kearns while he's still in the home red.

Jpup
05-10-2005, 06:16 AM
Wasn't Atlanta really wanting Griffey a little while back?

Sounds like an evil plan, but a good one. Griffey for a left-handed prospect sounds good to me. He doesn't even have to throw left-handed, just be left handed. :evil:

TheManWith3Legs
05-10-2005, 10:15 AM
McCann, Kyle Davies and another prospect would do it for me.

RDriesen16
05-10-2005, 10:24 AM
they are making a HUGE mistake if they trade any of the young of's.

1. they are all great
2. you cant get enough back to warrant getting rid of them
3. like mentioned, why trade them now for something that wont help you for 3 years. why not hold onto them for 3 years, then if you need something and can afford to trade them for something else proven, do it then.
4. yea, lets trade dunn's friend, smart move. now im not advocating keeping players just cause they are friends, but if the player is also good and the friend of your best player, well i would do it.

im now convinced oboring is the dumbest man in baseball. hes killing this team more everyday he is allowed to stay on. i pray that one of these days lindner will open his eyes and sell this team. if he loves cincy as much as he says, then he should want to sell them if he isnt gonna put forth the effort to get a winning team here. as long as you go cheap on gm's and coaches, your team will suck

johngalt
05-10-2005, 10:24 AM
My guess would be Horacio Ramirez would be the biggest part of a deal. He's also far, far better than Claussen. Frank Robinson compared him to a young Tom Glavine. I don't think he's that good but he's still a very good young lefty. He probably tops out as a very good number 3 starter or a solid number 2. He's also capable of a 3.50 or maybe even lower ERA right now.

I think Ramirez is one of the more overrated young arms in the game. Again, I just don't see the fascination there.

He's been hurt. He walks a lot of guys. He doesn't have great stuff. To me, he's exactly the kind of arm we should NOT target. I have no doubt that the Braves would be willing to part with him, but I have no desire to see him in a Reds uniform.

johngalt
05-10-2005, 10:26 AM
What about Kearns for Denny Bautista (KC)?

RDriesen16
05-10-2005, 10:26 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/3601644

From Ken Rosenthal's latest posting. It mentions the Braves, Royals, and Nationals as interested. Griffey blurb leads the piece with Kearns section a few paragraphs down.'


the second a team offers anything for griffey, oboring better pull the trigger. dont wait for a better offer, he may get hurt, just get his contract off our books. i like jr, and hes playing well, but its just a matter of time. and we need our young of's playing.

Az Red
05-10-2005, 12:31 PM
The Reds will trade AK and watch him become an all star for the next ten years. Stupid idea!

flyer85
05-10-2005, 12:43 PM
What about Kearns for Denny Bautista (KC)?Bautista was had for Jason Grimsley last year. Where was was the Reds FO then?

shredda2000
05-10-2005, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by RDriesen16
the second a team offers anything for griffey, oboring better pull the trigger. dont wait for a better offer, he may get hurt, just get his contract off our books. i like jr, and hes playing well, but its just a matter of time. and we need our young of's playing.

The Reds would probably have to absorb most of Junior's salary and if they do that, they might as well benefit from him while he is healthy.

striker42
05-10-2005, 01:03 PM
McCann, Kyle Davies and another prospect would do it for me.

Dream the impossible dream. That aint gonna happen. I have trouble seeing Davies being on the table and if he is he would be the only thing in the trade. Adding McCann to a deal and another prospect would be something the Mets would do, not the Braves.

As for Horacio Ramirez. I think you guys are underestimating him. He walks a lot of guys but that wont last. Ramirez walks batters because he nibbles, not because of control issues. He actually has amazing control and it's been said that he has control he hasn't even shown yet because he's sacrificing it for a little better stuff. The Braves would love to see him scale back a little and use that control which is Glavine like. Glavine is actually a pretty good comparison. Glavine never had spectacular stuff. A fastball that hits 90 and a spectacular changeup were his main weapons. HoRam has similar stuff. His fastball is probably better because of the excellent sinking action it gets and he has a changeup that as ESPN says "adds a foot to his fastball". His walk rate is high but they aren't that worrisome. When HoRam gets runners on, he buckles down and throws some excellent pitches. The kind of stuff he's capable of. With runners on this year he has a .164 BAA, last year it was .191. The walks won't persist though. As HoRam matures, he'll get more and more aggressive and you'll see that walk rate fall. His control is just too good for that walk rate to continue. You gotta remember that HoRam is only 25 and that he was only 23 when he broke into the majors from AA. He's still being polished. You could actually do a lot worse than HoRam.

Crash Davis
05-10-2005, 01:06 PM
Don't hold your breath. Davies alone? Long shot. Davies and someone else? Aint gonna happen. It's believed that the Tum Hudson deal would have derailed had Beane asked for Davies. That's how high the Braves rank him. I would believe that Hudson is a good bit more valuable than Kearns so Davies is unlikely.

In that case, have fun watching Raul Mondesi and Brian Jordan all summer...until they get injured at least.

Do you want to go to the playoffs for the 15th straight year, or do you want to build a great AAA team?

IslandRed
05-10-2005, 01:14 PM
It's not like Kearns-or-nothing is the choice. There are 28 other teams out there. If I'm the Braves, I'd think I could land something good without giving up Davies.

johngalt
05-10-2005, 01:25 PM
As for Horacio Ramirez. I think you guys are underestimating him. He walks a lot of guys but that wont last. Ramirez walks batters because he nibbles, not because of control issues. He actually has amazing control and it's been said that he has control he hasn't even shown yet because he's sacrificing it for a little better stuff. The Braves would love to see him scale back a little and use that control which is Glavine like. Glavine is actually a pretty good comparison. Glavine never had spectacular stuff. A fastball that hits 90 and a spectacular changeup were his main weapons. HoRam has similar stuff. His fastball is probably better because of the excellent sinking action it gets and he has a changeup that as ESPN says "adds a foot to his fastball". His walk rate is high but they aren't that worrisome. When HoRam gets runners on, he buckles down and throws some excellent pitches. The kind of stuff he's capable of. With runners on this year he has a .164 BAA, last year it was .191. The walks won't persist though. As HoRam matures, he'll get more and more aggressive and you'll see that walk rate fall. His control is just too good for that walk rate to continue. You gotta remember that HoRam is only 25 and that he was only 23 when he broke into the majors from AA. He's still being polished. You could actually do a lot worse than HoRam.

With the way he doesn't miss bats, I hope he doesn't get aggressive. He'll get slugged right out of here.

Seriously, we don't need anymore "pitch to contact" guys, especially if it's in a deal for Kearns. I want someone that strikes guys out, that has some kind of out pitch. I don't want anymore guys that average 4-5 K/9 and walk 3-4/9 and rely on hitters getting themselves out. If we have a veteran like that, fine, but I don't want a young arm like that.

savafan
05-10-2005, 01:40 PM
i pray that one of these days lindner will open his eyes and sell this team. if he loves cincy as much as he says, then he should want to sell them if he isnt gonna put forth the effort to get a winning team here. as long as you go cheap on gm's and coaches, your team will suck

I believe that Lindner can, and will, be the owner we all hope he will be. I don't think that O'Brien has shown that he can be a good GM in baseball. A good number 2 man perhaps, but good number 2 men don't always make good general managers. I believe the first step in turning this front office around is to replace John Allen with someone who has a bit more baseball knowledge. Someone who is a good businessman as well as a good baseball person. Someone like Johnny Bench or Joe Morgan perhaps.

striker42
05-10-2005, 02:34 PM
In that case, have fun watching Raul Mondesi and Brian Jordan all summer...until they get injured at least.

Do you want to go to the playoffs for the 15th straight year, or do you want to build a great AAA team?

First off, for Davies and McCann, the Braves could do far, far better than Kearns. That would be a bigger package than the one for Hudson and Hudson is better than Kearns. If the Reds are holding out for a package like that for Kearns, he won't be traded. No team would be dumb enough, except perhaps the Mets, to give that kind of package for Kearns. I like Kearns but Davies and McCann is just ridiculous. You're talking about perhaps the game's best catching prospect and a top 10 pitching prospect, both in the top 40-50 prospects in baseball for Kearns. I'd rather watch Mondesi and Jordan than give up those guys.

Also, the Braves are not devoid of other options.
1. Kelly Johnson- Tearing up AAA. Could probably be at least major league average or the lefty part of a great platoon right now.

2. Ryan Langerhans- Another lefty. Not as good as Johnson but probably major league average too. Or, like Johnson, part of a platoon.

3. Andy Marte- The Braves could move Chipper back to the outfield and put the game's best prospect at third. Possibly a David Wright like rookie year.

4. Another trade option- For that package, the Braves could get Huff and probably get the Rays to throw in another player such as Julio Lugo to replace Furcal after this year. They could get Carlos Lee for from the Brewers for probably either of those prospects. The Pirates probably have some guys the Braves could get without either of McCann or Davies. The Rockies have Preston Wilson. Detroit also has a player or two the Braves could get. It's not like Kearns is the only option. He's probably the best fit for the Braves but not at the cost of Davies and McCann.

Remember, John Schuerholz is the Braves GM and rarely does he get cheated. He doesn't overpay for players and would sooner stick with Mondesi and Jordan or Johnson and Langerhans than give in to panic and sell the farm for Kearns.

flyer85
05-10-2005, 02:41 PM
I believe that sums it up. I have been pointing out for a while that if the Reds trade any of the three OFs they will not be happy with the haul.

Look no farther then what Beltran got the Royals last year, a group of middling prsopects. I realize he was a rent-a-player but he was the best one to come along in recent memory. They did better when they traded Grimsley than what they got for Beltran.

The ideal deal would be trade off expendable pieces and maybe you get lucky. The Dodgers are loaded with young pitching prospects(Jackson, Billingsley, Tiffany, Miller, Broxton,etc) and a couple of cacthing prospects.

johngalt
05-10-2005, 03:12 PM
The ideal deal would be trade off expendable pieces and maybe you get lucky. The Dodgers are loaded with young pitching prospects(Jackson, Billingsley, Tiffany, Miller, Broxton,etc) and a couple of cacthing prospects.

Maybe we come to the Dodgers asking for Navarro and Tiffany.

Heck, maybe we find a way to get Jackson and Navarro. That might be better if Jackson could help immediately. He's struggling (again), so maybe that makes him easier to get.

toledodan
05-10-2005, 03:37 PM
'


the second a team offers anything for griffey, oboring better pull the trigger. dont wait for a better offer, he may get hurt, just get his contract off our books. i like jr, and hes playing well, but its just a matter of time. and we need our young of's playing.


Rd you seem to forget griffey is a 10/5 guy and isn't going anywhere unless he wants to.

toledodan
05-10-2005, 03:42 PM
First off, for Davies and McCann, the Braves could do far, far better than Kearns. That would be a bigger package than the one for Hudson and Hudson is better than Kearns. If the Reds are holding out for a package like that for Kearns, he won't be traded. No team would be dumb enough, except perhaps the Mets, to give that kind of package for Kearns. I like Kearns but Davies and McCann is just ridiculous. You're talking about perhaps the game's best catching prospect and a top 10 pitching prospect, both in the top 40-50 prospects in baseball for Kearns. I'd rather watch Mondesi and Jordan than give up those guys.

Also, the Braves are not devoid of other options.
1. Kelly Johnson- Tearing up AAA. Could probably be at least major league average or the lefty part of a great platoon right now.

2. Ryan Langerhans- Another lefty. Not as good as Johnson but probably major league average too. Or, like Johnson, part of a platoon.

3. Andy Marte- The Braves could move Chipper back to the outfield and put the game's best prospect at third. Possibly a David Wright like rookie year.

4. Another trade option- For that package, the Braves could get Huff and probably get the Rays to throw in another player such as Julio Lugo to replace Furcal after this year. They could get Carlos Lee for from the Brewers for probably either of those prospects. The Pirates probably have some guys the Braves could get without either of McCann or Davies. The Rockies have Preston Wilson. Detroit also has a player or two the Braves could get. It's not like Kearns is the only option. He's probably the best fit for the Braves but not at the cost of Davies and McCann.

Remember, John Schuerholz is the Braves GM and rarely does he get cheated. He doesn't overpay for players and would sooner stick with Mondesi and Jordan or Johnson and Langerhans than give in to panic and sell the farm for Kearns.


prospects are what they are untill they prove themselves at the major league level. brandon larson was all world in the minors but sucked when given his shot in the majors. look at brandon claussen he was the yankees #1 or 2 pitching prospect. that didn't turn out well at all either. kearns when healthy has proven he can produce at the major league level. while i know the braves prospects are highly rated that means nothing untill they do it on the field.

striker42
05-10-2005, 04:00 PM
prospects are what they are untill they prove themselves at the major league level. brandon larson was all world in the minors but sucked when given his shot in the majors. look at brandon claussen he was the yankees #1 or 2 pitching prospect. that didn't turn out well at all either. kearns when healthy has proven he can produce at the major league level. while i know the braves prospects are highly rated that means nothing untill they do it on the field.

But on that logic, the Mariners should trade Felix Hernandez for John Thomson because Thomson is a proven major leager while Hernandez isn't. Only the Mets make those kind of deals (ie Kazmir for Zambrano). McCann and Davies for Kearns would be the same thing.

McCann and Davies may both turn out to be nothing but you don't run your club on those fears. If the Braves did that guys like Chipper Jones, Andruw Jones, Marcus Giles, Rafael Furcal, and Adam LaRoche would not be in Atlanta today. The potential of McCann and Davies along with their liklihood of fulfilling it makes them worth more than Kearns.

Crash Davis
05-10-2005, 05:49 PM
But on that logic, the Mariners should trade Felix Hernandez for John Thomson because Thomson is a proven major leager while Hernandez isn't. Only the Mets make those kind of deals (ie Kazmir for Zambrano). McCann and Davies for Kearns would be the same thing.

Absolutely. Very well said.


The potential of McCann and Davies along with their liklihood of fulfilling it makes them worth more than Kearns.

I don't agree with that at all. I don't think their "liklihood of fulfilling it" is all that great. I don't see either of them as can't miss stars like Chipper, Andrew Jones, Furcal...or even guys like Felix Hernandez and David Wright. They're good prospects, but they aren't guaranteed superstars.

I'll take the sure thing in Austin Kearns. If the Reds can't see that he's a sure thing and a building block, that's a problem they have to live with...but I wouldn't be trading him at less than full value. Judge the talent & ability, not the perceived value.

I think there's a sizable chance that Kearns' value will never be lower than it is in May of 2005, and at the same time, McCann and Davies' value may never be higher than it is right now.

RDriesen16
05-10-2005, 06:11 PM
Rd you seem to forget griffey is a 10/5 guy and isn't going anywhere unless he wants to.
no i dont. i think he will agree if its to a team that will be in the playoffs

toledodan
05-10-2005, 06:57 PM
no i dont. i think he will agree if its to a team that will be in the playoffs



the team can't just trade him. he has to ask for the trade. however i do agree with you if a team was a lock to make the playoffs and had a injury to a outfielder he may jump to go. he's getting older and the sad thing for jr and us it doesn't seem like the reds are going to make the playoffs anytime soon. :(

TheManWith3Legs
05-11-2005, 09:16 AM
Dream the impossible dream. That aint gonna happen. I have trouble seeing Davies being on the table and if he is he would be the only thing in the trade. Adding McCann to a deal and another prospect would be something the Mets would do, not the Braves.


I'm not saying the Braves would do it. That's what I would accept for Kearns if I were the Reds GM.