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paintmered
05-13-2005, 07:55 AM
Buyout possible for Huggins
No contract extension offered yet by UC to basketball coach

By Bill Koch
Enquirer staff writer

University of Cincinnati president Nancy Zimpher did not offer basketball coach Bob Huggins a contract extension or rollover when the two met in her office Wednesday afternoon, leaving Huggins, for now, with the option of completing the final two years of his contract or accepting a buyout proposal, sources familiar with the negotiations confirmed Thursday.

However, the negotiations are ongoing.

UC athletic director Bob Goin would say only: "There was an initial meeting and I know of no final outcome of those negotiations."

Goin declined further comment.

The buyout proposal that was offered to Huggins essentially is the same one that's included in his basic contract. That proposal calls for Huggins, if he is terminated without cause, to receive "monthly payments at the rate of $700,000 per year from the date of ... such termination without cause through the expiration of the term of this contract."

With two years left on his contract, Huggins would receive $1.4 million if he accepts the termination proposal.

Wednesday's meeting took place in Zimpher's office on campus and included Zimpher, Huggins, Goin, Board of Trustees chairman Phil Cox and Board vice chairman Jeff Wyler. Huggins had the rollover provision of his contract removed last summer in response to his arrest and conviction on a charge of driving under the influence. Before that, his contract rolled over on July 1 of each year so that he always had four years left.

Zimpher, through university spokesman Greg Hand, declined comment Thursday night. Huggins could not be reached; his lawyer, Richard Katz, declined comment.

Huggins has a 399-127 record in 16 seasons at UC. His teams have made 14 straight NCAA Tournament appearances.

flyer85
05-13-2005, 09:15 AM
sounds like it is just of matter of "when".

Roy Tucker
05-13-2005, 09:31 AM
I think Nancy better be careful for what she wishes for.

There was a big ole dry spell for UC hoops before Huggins showed up (Badger/Yates) and I predict a long dry spell after he leaves.

flyer85
05-13-2005, 09:41 AM
I think Nancy better be careful for what she wishes for.

There was a big ole dry spell for UC hoops before Huggins showed up (Badger/Yates) and I predict a long dry spell after he leaves.it's not like next years team is loaded. Going in to a tough Big East with the current roster is going to be a challenge.

Maybe Nancy decided she would like UC to be an known as an institution of higher learning instead of a basketball school with "issues".

SunDeck
05-13-2005, 10:17 AM
I think Nancy better be careful for what she wishes for.

There was a big ole dry spell for UC hoops before Huggins showed up (Badger/Yates) and I predict a long dry spell after he leaves.

The guy had a DUI on national television. It takes time to get back into the good graces of your boss after you embarrass yourself and your program like that. I don't see this as an indication that he's got one foot out the door, but it does look like Zimpfer is trying to send some kind of a message. It's not clear at this point what she wants out of the program, but I think people are right to be concerned about Hugg's long term situation.

flyer85
05-13-2005, 10:22 AM
I don't see this as an indication that he's got one foot out the door, but it does look like Zimpfer is trying to send some kind of a message.By not getting an extension it does, it hurts recruiting because everyone else can play to the perception that the coach is on his way out. Either Huggins will get an extension or he will be gone. The third possible outcome(staying with no extension) is a third rail.

SunDeck
05-13-2005, 10:24 AM
By not getting an extension it does, it hurts recruiting because everyone else can play to the perception that the coach is on his way out. Either Huggins will get an extension or he will be gone. The third possible outcome(staying with no extension) is a third rail.

Very good point RC.

CrackerJack
05-13-2005, 10:32 AM
I assume people here have heard about Roy Bright being kicked off the team for dropping a loaded gun on campus and top recruit Vincent Baker leaving the team for "personal reasons."

I think the string of problems he's had with these kids and the program are enough - and to be honest as a long-time UC fan I am utterly tired of Huggins' act, the underachieving, the constant criminal problems etc..,

His program is out of control and his recruiting has suffered of late (despite having some good young talent going into next year - they're just going to be a very young team that will struggle early probably).

A change is sorely needed - I respect what he's done here tremendously and how he ressurected the program - of course who they replace him with - if they do - is key to keeping the program on the same level. I think that's very possible with all of the campus changes and the move to the Big East.

Although one thing UC and Cincinnati Police could stand to do is clean up Clifton Heights and Corryville - you are literally risking your life walking around those areas at night and I moved out of Clifton a couple of years ago as I was tired of people being shot, car jacked, and mugged literally on a weekly basis in certain areas of the neighborhood.

SunDeck
05-13-2005, 10:45 AM
I assume people here have heard about Roy Bright being kicked off the team for dropping a loaded gun on campus and top recruit Vincent Baker leaving the team for "personal reasons."

I think the string of problems he's had with these kids and the program are enough - and to be honest as a long-time UC fan I am utterly tired of Huggins' act, the underachieving, the constant criminal problems etc..,

His program is out of control and his recruiting has suffered of late (despite having some good young talent going into next year - they're just going to be a very young team that will struggle early probably).

A change is sorely needed - I respect what he's done here tremendously and how he ressurected the program - of course who they replace him with - if they do - is key to keeping the program on the same level. I think that's very possible with all of the campus changes and the move to the Big East.

Although one thing UC and Cincinnati Police could stand to do is clean up Clifton Heights and Corryville - you are literally risking your life walking around those areas at night and I moved out of Clifton a couple of years ago as I was tired of people being shot, car jacked, and mugged literally on a weekly basis in certain areas of the neighborhood.

On the thread that started with the latest incident, it was mentioned that Huggs takes chances on kids. That's a point I have tended to overlook. Not saying it's been a success, but he has walked a thin line, trying to take kids who are athletes and get them into a nationally ranked college program. Some of them have worked out well, some haven't, clearly.

Roy Tucker
05-13-2005, 10:45 AM
The guy had a DUI on national television. It takes time to get back into the good graces of your boss after you embarrass yourself and your program like that. I don't see this as an indication that he's got one foot out the door, but it does look like Zimpfer is trying to send some kind of a message. It's not clear at this point what she wants out of the program, but I think people are right to be concerned about Hugg's long term situation.
Good point. But I thought I read where after Huggins' DUI last year, they took away the automatic roll-over of his 4 year contract as a warning shot across his bow. And, from what I've read in the press, Huggins has cleaned up his act. I'm sure the timing of the Bright incident and Banks leaving school didn't help. It's a real tough call for Zimpher.

I view all college Division 1 sports with a very jaundiced eye. There are very few programs, be it hoops, football, etc. that hasn't sold their soul to the throne of the almighty dollar. Div. 1 men's hoops and football are moneymakers, period. And UC is no exception.

And this is a genuine question; Do the sports programs at big-time schools *really* affect their academic reputation? The exposure to high level academia that I've had I would say no. The whole research/teaching aspect of a university pretty much stands (or falls) on the the merit of the quality of staff, facilities, and their output. Do schools who go on NCAA probation lose enrollment, academic standing, etc as a result?

SunDeck
05-13-2005, 10:57 AM
And this is a genuine question; Do the sports programs at big-time schools *really* affect their academic reputation? The exposure to high level academia that I've had I would say no. The whole research/teaching aspect of a university pretty much stands (or falls) on the the merit of the quality of staff, facilities, and their output. Do schools who go on NCAA probation lose enrollment, academic standing, etc as a result?

I think that's a good question and I'd venture that the answer is no. The athletic world and the academic world are separate universes, in my experience (at a school that also had a precipitous downfall in it's hoop program- NC State). Moreover, it's silly and naive for anyone to try to even evaluate a shool's academic reputation based on one particular criteria. Student's don't attend the entire university, only a portion of it. How they do academically relates much more to a set of details that relates to their individual experience at the school and the program they enrolled in. Just my opinion.

Here's a sort of example; there are great programs at UC like engineering and the design programs at DAAP, the business school has a solid reputation, etc. But do you know what one of their most prestigious and highly respected programs is? Classics! You couldn't find a program more removed from athletics than that, could you?

CrackerJack
05-13-2005, 12:27 PM
Classics? The conservatory is also obviously one of the best music schools in the world. UC is a great state funded city school and always will be and is a nice thing to have here in town - they are the city's largest employer and provide all kinds of benefits to us who live here.

Considering the rather pathetic student involvement and attendance to the football and basketball games over the years, it's pretty obvious the students don't really care as much about the athletic programs as do the surrounding population and alums and friends of alums who consider UC a city icon and staple and are really the only major college sports affiliation we have outside of OSU, IU and UK.

Reds4Life
05-13-2005, 12:34 PM
This isn't about Huggs DUI, or Roy Bright, Nancy Zimpher has it out for Huggins.
It's been that way ever since she set foot on the UC campus and it's not really a secret either.

I bet reps from the Big East are going to be giving her a call, they've invested significant time and money into bring UC and others into the conference next year, if she ruins the product they bought they aren't going to be pleased.

FWIW, Zimpher isn't well liked on UC campus either, from what I hear she's really screwed up thier graduation ceremony this year as well.

paintmered
05-13-2005, 12:39 PM
FWIW, Zimpher isn't well liked on UC campus either

That's a bit of an understatement. She's a change for the sake of change kind of person.

Reds4Life
05-13-2005, 12:45 PM
That's a bit of an understatement. She's a change for the sake of change kind of person.

If Huggs is forced out it's going to be very interesting to see the reaction of the student body and the local media. I think Nancy is biting off more than she can chew with this one.

flyer85
05-13-2005, 12:46 PM
I bet reps from the Big East are going to be giving her a call, they've invested significant time and money into bring UC and others into the conference next year, if she ruins the product they bought they aren't going to be pleased. The reason UC got in the Big East was football, not basketball. Somebody has to finish last.:help:

Reds4Life
05-13-2005, 12:53 PM
The revenue from the UC basketball program finances ALL the other sports in thier athletic department, without basketball there is no UC football.

SunDeck
05-13-2005, 12:55 PM
Classics? The conservatory is also obviously one of the best music schools in the world. UC is a great state funded city school and always will be and is a nice thing to have here in town - they are the city's largest employer and provide all kinds of benefits to us who live here.



Yep, people like me who got tuition remission. Probably wouldn't have gone to college without it.

And yes...Classics. Didn't mean to slight CCM by not including them at all. UC is a big place and it always seemed to me that each individual college was distinct and in many cases, very different from the others.

flyer85
05-13-2005, 01:16 PM
Doyel comes to the defense of Huggins

http://sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/8469100

Reds4Life
05-13-2005, 01:20 PM
Doyel comes to the defense of Huggins

http://sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/8469100

We'll be seeing a lot of that in the coming days, I don't think Nancy realizes what she's getting herself into.

flyer85
05-13-2005, 01:27 PM
I don't think Nancy realizes what she's getting herself into.I don't think she cares. By the time she is finished everyone will know who is wearing the pants.

Reds4Life
05-13-2005, 01:33 PM
I don't think she cares. By the time she is finished everyone will know who is wearing the pants.

Considering the fact most at UC can't stand her, I wouldn't be so sure her job is on solid ground either, she can be "dismissed" as well.

RedFanAlways1966
05-13-2005, 01:34 PM
Perhaps when Nancy "Myles Brand" Zimpher gets her wish, she can hire Mike Davis to replace Huggs. By then Davis may be looking for employment and he is already used to taking over for a coach who is loved by the students and the alumni... and is a proven winner.

SunDeck
05-13-2005, 01:49 PM
Perhaps when Nancy "Myles Brand" Zimpher gets her wish, she can hire Mike Davis to replace Huggs. By then Davis may be looking for employment and he is already used to taking over for a coach who is loved by the students and the alumni... and is a proven winner.


You'd get little resistance from Hoosier fans on that one.

flyer85
05-13-2005, 01:52 PM
Considering the fact most at UC can't stand her, I wouldn't be so sure her job is on solid ground either, she can be "dismissed" as well.That was my point. This is a power struggle, we'll see who finishes standing.

Caveat Emperor
05-13-2005, 01:52 PM
And this is a genuine question; Do the sports programs at big-time schools *really* affect their academic reputation? The exposure to high level academia that I've had I would say no. The whole research/teaching aspect of a university pretty much stands (or falls) on the the merit of the quality of staff, facilities, and their output. Do schools who go on NCAA probation lose enrollment, academic standing, etc as a result?

Actually, yes, they do in two majors way:

1. Application Rate: Virginia Tech is the classic example of this. After Michael Vick led them to the national championship game, their application rate for undergraduate admission went up by something close to 50% for the next year. People who otherwise would never have heard of Virginia Tech saw them on national TV because of the title game and other coverage associated with it and then decided to apply to school. A high application rate for a static number of students lets the school be more selective in picking individuals for admission, which raises academic reputation and ranking.

Duke and North Carolina are great schools, but just ask yourself how many applications they get each year are from kids who have no business going there but just really like the hoops programs.

2. Donations: Successful sports teams lead to greater alumni involvement in the school and greater financial contributions. If anything derails Nancy Zimpher from firing Huggins, this will do it. There are too many local UC alums in Cincinnati that are funding projects like the athletic village and other new construction around campus that would close the checkbook immediately if Huggins was fired.

In fact, now that word about this story has leaked out, I imagine that her office (today) is going to be flooded with calls from a lot of people the university depends on for support, stating that they will not contribute if Bob Huggins is fired.

Zimpher is out of her league on this one, and the boosters/alumni will let her know about it quickly. Coming from a school that has absolutely terrible major sports programs myself, I can only implore UC fans to pick up the phone and call the office today. Nothing is worse than having your only mention on ESPN be on the bottom line when you've been blown out yet again.

SunDeck
05-13-2005, 02:23 PM
Actually, yes, they do in two majors way:

1. Application Rate: Virginia Tech is the classic example of this. After Michael Vick led them to the national championship game, their application rate for undergraduate admission went up by something close to 50% for the next year. People who otherwise would never have heard of Virginia Tech saw them on national TV because of the title game and other coverage associated with it and then decided to apply to school. A high application rate for a static number of students lets the school be more selective in picking individuals for admission, which raises academic reputation and ranking.

Duke and North Carolina are great schools, but just ask yourself how many applications they get each year are from kids who have no business going there but just really like the hoops programs.

But does it enhance the academic reputation of the school when they get more applications from people who are actually dumb enough to base their decision on that? I suppose, but only in terms of their turnaway stats. So, the school's reputation may be enhanced, but I wonder about the status of it academically.

V-Tech was working hard on their image long before Vick came along. Additionally, applications at NC State where I worked also spiked in the mid nineties, and that had more to do with the fact that they had good computer science and computer engineering programs (think internet bubble). V-Tech, being a very similar land grant school may have had the same experience. Just guessing though.



2. Donations: Successful sports teams lead to greater alumni involvement in the school and greater financial contributions. If anything derails Nancy Zimpher from firing Huggins, this will do it. There are too many local UC alums in Cincinnati that are funding projects like the athletic village and other new construction around campus that would close the checkbook immediately if Huggins was fired.



No argument there.

Reds4Life
05-13-2005, 02:51 PM
They had a special report on Channel 12 that Pete Guillen could be a possible replacement for Huggs. Talk about a slap in the face, replacing Huggs with a former Xavier coach. Nancy must go.

SunDeck
05-13-2005, 02:58 PM
They had a special report on Channel 12 that Pete Guillen could be a possible replacement for Huggs. Talk about a slap in the face, replacing Huggs with a former Xavier coach. Nancy must go.

Oh, that is so not true.
Is it?

What's Bob Staak up to?

flyer85
05-13-2005, 03:57 PM
They had a special report on Channel 12 that Pete Guillen could be a possible replacement for Huggs. Talk about a slap in the face, replacing Huggs with a former Xavier coach. In addition, hating each others guts would be a nice way to describe the Huggins-Gillen relationship.

Matt700wlw
05-13-2005, 04:17 PM
Indiana is still trying to recover from firing Bob Knight

Nancy is about to dig herself a hole she'll never get out of. Huggs is the only reason UC is going to the Big East....and she is going to destroy this entire program

paintmered
05-13-2005, 04:19 PM
Nancy was already getting booed when showing up at basketball games this year. Imagine the reception she'd get if she fired Hugs.

She is not liked AT ALL by the students here.

Matt700wlw
05-13-2005, 04:20 PM
Nancy was already getting booed when showing up at basketball games this year. Imagine the reception she'd get if she fired Hugs.

She is not liked AT ALL by the students here.

Danny Graves thinks he gets a bad ovation?

WVRed
05-13-2005, 05:19 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2059526

Embattled Cincinnati head coach Bob Huggins was not offered an extension or reinstatement of his contract rollover provision in a meeting Wednesday with the university's president, the Cincinnati Enquirer reported in Friday's editions.

The paper also reported that a contract buyout option is being discussed. Huggins, who had the rollover clause in his contract removed after last summer's arrest for driving under the influence, has two years remaining on his deal.

"There was an initial meeting and I know of no final outcome of those negotiations," Cincinnati athletic director Bob Goin told the paper.

The meeting was in school president Nancy Zimpher's office and also included Goin, Board of Trustees chairman Phil Cox and Board vice chairman Jeff Wyler, according to the report.

Per Huggins' contract, he would receive $700,000 a year for the remaining two years of his deal if he is bought out by the school.

Huggins has a career record of 399-127 in 16 seasons with the Bearcats. His teams have qualified for 14 straight NCAA Tournaments.

Hoosier Red
05-13-2005, 05:30 PM
Indiana is still trying to recover from firing Bob Knight

Nancy is about to dig herself a hole she'll never get out of. Huggs is the only reason UC is going to the Big East....and she is going to destroy this entire program

Bob Knight won 3 national championships, and over 600 games at IU.
They went to the Nat'l Championship game two years later.

Bob Huggins hasn't gone to a Final Four since 1992.

To paraphrase Sparky Anderson, "Don't compare Bob Huggins to Bob Knight, you'll only embarass him."

Reds4Life
05-13-2005, 05:33 PM
Bob Knight won 3 national championships, and over 600 games at IU.
They went to the Nat'l Championship game two years later.

Bob Huggins hasn't gone to a Final Four since 1992.

To paraphrase Sparky Anderson, "Don't compare Bob Huggins to Bob Knight, you'll only embarass him."

And who built that Indiana team that went to the title game? Wasn't Mike Davis.

Hoosier Red
05-13-2005, 05:35 PM
Actually he was the lead recruiter for many of the players. He was also the guy who the players demanded stay on as coach.
My point being the team went to the Nat'l title game two years after firing a coach whose resume so dwarfs Bob Huggins that to compare the two is silly.

The team hasn't struggled because they had to replace Bob Knight, the team has struggled because Mike Davis hasn't been very good.

Matt700wlw
05-13-2005, 05:40 PM
Actually he was the lead recruiter for many of the players. He was also the guy who the players demanded stay on as coach.
My point being the team went to the Nat'l title game two years after firing a coach whose resume so dwarfs Bob Huggins that to compare the two is silly.

The team hasn't struggled because they had to replace Bob Knight, the team has struggled because Mike Davis hasn't been very good.

My intent wasn't to compare the two Bob's, because there's only 1 Robert Montgomery...my point is that Bobby Knight built the Indiana program and then when they fired him, the program suffered.

Same would happen at UC -- especially moving the the Big East, which Bob Huggins is primarily responsible for

Hoosier Red
05-13-2005, 05:44 PM
Fair point, but the IU program hasn't suffered because they fired Bob Knight, it has suffered because the gave Mike Davis an extension.

If they had hired a better coach, like Motta or Pitino, the program wouldn't have missed a beat.

None of this has much to do with Huggins though. The real worry is getting someone who is as good as Huggins(hopefully without the issues) to replace him.

paintmered
05-13-2005, 05:47 PM
None of this has much to do with Huggins though. The real worry is getting someone who is as good as Huggins(hopefully without the issues) to replace him.

They already have someone on staff that is every bit as good of a coach as Huggins - Andy Kennedy.

Problem is, he has nowhere near the amount of star appeal that Hugs has, nor has he ever been a head coach.

SunDeck
05-13-2005, 06:00 PM
.

The team hasn't struggled because they had to replace Bob Knight, the team has struggled because Mike Davis hasn't been very good.

Word.

CrackerJack
05-13-2005, 06:06 PM
Oh this doom and gloom if Huggy bear leaves is ridiculous.

The man is a bloated, drunken Elvis whose program has spun out of control and has had more chances than any other coach I've ever seen in college basketball - or really any sport for that matter.

People hate Zimpher because she removed alcohol from the Rhine Room I believe and the freakin' bowling alley and actually had the loins to stand up to the almighty Huggins.

According to Dave Lapham Huggins has had the buyout proposal on his desk for 6-8 weeks and they are simply trying to get rid of Huggins as quietly and gracefully and respectfully as possible.

I am a huge UC fan and no longer support Huggins nonsense - Christ the laundry list of criminal violations amongst him and his players is beyond reason at this point and the constant desperation mode they are in regarding recruiting and the coaching staff defections and decline in success is a direct result of his inability to control his program and run it professionally instead of like a JUCO NBA boot camp...this isn't a charity program for future millionaires, the entire university's image is affected by these kids he brings in, there's a lot of responsibility that goes with being a Division I athlete.

UC will survive Huggins leaving, he did a great job when he was here, I realize some west siders and Elder grads may commit Harey Carey over it but there will be life in UC basketball when he's gone (depending on who they replace him with).

UC Football will, hopefully, and easily, supplant UC basketball as the premiere revenue machine now that they are in the Big East in short time.

I'm sure some here disagree with me and that's fine, but I've seen enough of Huggins' tired act and the Bright and Banks situations are just the nail in the coffin unfortunately.

At some point you just have to say enough is enough and no more chances....

Chip R
05-13-2005, 06:39 PM
UC will survive Huggins leaving, he did a great job when he was here, I realize some west siders and Elder grads may commit Harey Carey over it but there will be life in UC basketball when he's gone (depending on who they replace him with).

UC Football will, hopefully, and easily, supplant UC basketball as the premiere revenue machine now that they are in the Big East in short time.

I'm sure some here disagree with me and that's fine, but I've seen enough of Huggins' tired act and the Bright and Banks situations are just the nail in the coffin unfortunately.

At some point you just have to say enough is enough and no more chances....Of course they will survive. UNC has survived Dean Smith leaving. IU has survived Bob Knight leaving. UCLA has survived John Wooden leaving. The basketball program may not be at the same level as it has been but life goes on.

UC football a revenue machine? Pardon me for laughing. More like an apathy machine. UC could drop football tomorrow and the reaction would be a big "so what". It's a shame but for some reason in a city where HS football has great support and the Bengals have great support that UC football has little fan support. Going to the Big East isn't going to change that much. The Big East is a basketball conference and could very well lose its BCS bid in the future. UC could have an undefeated football team and be ranked in the top 10 and they still wouldn't sell out games. Let's face facts. UC hoops is the tail that wags the UC athletic department's dog.

I think it's a shame that they want to get rid of a proven winner through no fault of his own. He screwed up with the drunk driving thing last year and paid the price. He was told to get his act together and by all reports he has. Now, after they told him that he had to do this and that to keep his job they still want to get rid of him.

SunDeck
05-13-2005, 06:44 PM
Oh this doom and gloom if Huggy bear leaves is ridiculous.



People hate Zimpher because she removed alcohol from the Rhine Room I believe and the freakin' bowling alley and actually had the loins to stand up to the almighty Huggins.


....

Well, now I hate her too. :thumbdown

Matt700wlw
05-13-2005, 08:56 PM
The guy had a DUI on national television..

No the guy got a DUI, like Ryan Freel did, like Justin Smith did, like Steve McNair did, etc.....the media put it on National Television - that was their choice

That wasn't necessary....it was a wrong enough and plenty humiliating before the media let the world see it, especially over and over and over and over again.

Is the man a saint? Far from it. Does the man deserve to be run out of town? Absolutely not

paintmered
05-13-2005, 09:18 PM
People hate Zimpher because she removed alcohol from the Rhine Room I believe and the freakin' bowling alley


All the construction on campus is the work of Steger, not Zimpher. And we still have a sports bar on campus that serves alcohol.


Oh, and any variation of the F-word is not acceptable at redszone. Please don't use it again.

Redsfaithful
05-14-2005, 12:06 AM
UC Football will, hopefully, and easily, supplant UC basketball as the premiere revenue machine now that they are in the Big East in short time.

That's a good one.

Wait, you're kidding right?

CrackerJack
05-14-2005, 12:22 AM
Oh, and any variation of the F-word is not acceptable at redszone. Please don't use it again.

I wasn't aware it was a variation of the word you are referring to. Never thought of it that way honestly. But ok I won't use it again.


All the construction on campus is the work of Steger, not Zimpher. And we still have a sports bar on campus that serves alcohol.

I didn't say the construction was the work of Zimpher, did I?

I was being sarcastic (about the beer). She also barred alcohol from another hoidy toidy event at the president's house or something and people were all over her for it.

If you're offended by the notion that I criticized Huggins just say it...but I realize there's just not much to defend him with anymore.

CrackerJack
05-14-2005, 12:43 AM
That's a good one.

Wait, you're kidding right?


Uh, No. It has been UC's goal for some time to make football their primary revenue producer. It's a matter of selling out home games and being in an BCS conference - which they are now in obviously. Do you know how much money BCS football teams make, especially if they can sell out home games?

UC Basketball will also only receive their tournament money based on how far they advance in the tournament - not just for getting in it like C-USA. And I question UC's ability to even make it with or without Huggins in that super conference any time soon.

It is widely known the football program will benefit more from the move than basketball will.

They've only started turning a profit since 2002, but the move - IF the BCS standing is renewed - will probably mean an extra $5-$10 MILLION for the football program in revenues at first.

So no I'm not kidding, and if you have some reasoning for not believeing it you could always share it instead of just being snide I guess.

paintmered
05-14-2005, 02:13 AM
If you're offended by the notion that I criticized Huggins just say it...but I realize there's just not much to defend him with anymore.

Not at all. There is plenty to blame Hugs for over the years. I just wanted to set the record straight when it came to the construction on campus.

Jaycint
05-14-2005, 10:03 AM
I'm sure some here disagree with me and that's fine, but I've seen enough of Huggins' tired act and the Bright and Banks situations are just the nail in the coffin unfortunately.



I wouldn't throw Banks into this. Banks is leaving to take care of his father who is dying of AIDS in Georgia. Something any of us here would do in a similar situation. Your point is still valid but Banks is not a good example.

Caveat Emperor
05-14-2005, 03:05 PM
According to Dave Lapham Huggins has had the buyout proposal on his desk for 6-8 weeks and they are simply trying to get rid of Huggins as quietly and gracefully and respectfully as possible.

I wouldn't cite that as a source even remotely resembling "reliable." The way I hear it is that she tried to fire Huggins after the DUI incident, but several rather prominant boosters went bananas and threatened to withhold support to the university if she did, causing her to re-consider. I expect something similar will happen this go around.


I am a huge UC fan and no longer support Huggins nonsense - Christ the laundry list of criminal violations amongst him and his players is beyond reason at this point and the constant desperation mode they are in regarding recruiting and the coaching staff defections and decline in success is a direct result of his inability to control his program and run it professionally instead of like a JUCO NBA boot camp...this isn't a charity program for future millionaires, the entire university's image is affected by these kids he brings in, there's a lot of responsibility that goes with being a Division I athlete.

He's their coach, he's not their father or their court-appointed guardian. When they get to school, they make their own choices about things. He can offer guidance and direction, but he cannot make them take it. I'd argue the same things go on everywhere, Huggins is just worse at keeping it quiet.


UC will survive Huggins leaving, he did a great job when he was here, I realize some west siders and Elder grads may commit Harey Carey over it but there will be life in UC basketball when he's gone (depending on who they replace him with).

UC Football will, hopefully, and easily, supplant UC basketball as the premiere revenue machine now that they are in the Big East in short time.

The Big East is a basketball conference now. They've lost their power schools in Miami, Virginia Tech and Boston College on the football side, and there's really nothing left after that (maybe WVU, but they chronically underachieve).

Cincinnati fans shouldn't kid themselves: UC without Bob Huggins is just another city school. I go to "just another city school" (Toledo) right now, and I went to a school that couldn't be bothered to be competitive athletically at the expense of a smidge of the academic standards (Tulane). Let me tell you, there is nothing worse or more damaging for your pride in a university than being only good as schedule meat for some larger school.

Cincinnati has a tremendous opportunity joining the Big East...think how much a MAC school would kill to jump to a bigger conference just for the opportunity to compete. The AD and President of UC would be beyond stupid to boot out the one thing that has kept their school atheltically relevant for the last two decades.

Matt700wlw
05-16-2005, 06:34 PM
Channel 9 reporting Bob Huggins will NOT accept buyout (officially) and will remain head coach for the remainder of the contract. Also reporting that the University has ended all contract talks.

If she actually thought she could buy him out, she doesn't know Huggins very well.






Huggins Tells UC "No Thanks" On Buyout






Reported by: Dennis Janson

Channel 9 Sports has learned that UC coach Bob Huggins has now officially notified the university he won't accept a $1.4 million buyout of the last two years of his contract.

Monday evening, the University of Cincinnati released this statement:


"The University of Cincinnati announced today that it is no longer in discussions with Men's Basketball Coach Bob Huggins concerning his contract. At Coach Huggins' request, the existing contract will continue. The University has neither restored the rollover provision nor extended the contract term."
Meantime calls to coach Huggins and his attorney for comment haven't been returned.

Now Huggins, it appears, wanted or not, at least by the administration, will make his last stand, where he started 16 years ago, reported Channel 9's Dennis Janson.

LawFive
05-16-2005, 07:06 PM
I'm sure some here disagree with me and that's fine, but I've seen enough of Huggins' tired act and the Bright and Banks situations are just the nail in the coffin unfortunately.



Please, share with us what Huggins has to do with the fact that Bright took a gun to school? Or that Banks left for a family situation?

Huggins has been the first person blamed for all the poor decisions his players make, from the Art Long horse kicking incident to present day. Huggins dosen't choose how the players behave. Players choose how they behave.

Reds4Life
05-16-2005, 07:30 PM
Prediciton: Nancy Zimpher will be gone from UC before Bob Huggins.

I have a few friends that know people in the UC athletic department, from what I hear many of the boosters (including some big businesses) aren't very happy with ole' Nancy and plan to make thier voices heard (meaning no more $$$$) if she continues to try and force Bob out. I think she cut her own throat on this one.

Matt700wlw
05-16-2005, 07:32 PM
8:30 Press Conference about Bob Huggins......

...should be interesting

flyer85
05-16-2005, 07:48 PM
staredown continues? Continuing with an extension is untenable.

Redsfaithful
05-16-2005, 10:50 PM
Prediciton: Nancy Zimpher will be gone from UC before Bob Huggins.

Yep. Huggins will win this battle. If he wants to stay at UC, he'll stay at UC. He's got a lot more clout than Zimpher, whether she's his boss or not.

LoganBuck
05-16-2005, 10:55 PM
Zimpher is in trouble now, Huggins will outlast her. I heard the press conference during the Reds game. It went as I expected. Can you imagine what is going to happen to gifts and donations to the university?

Matt700wlw
05-17-2005, 03:52 PM
From CBS Sportsline



We'll say this slowly ...
May 17, 9:38 a.m.

How can the school president be the dumbest person on campus?

It happened a few years back at Georgia, where president Michael Adams hired Jim Harrick despite the fact that he was, well, Jim Harrick.

And now it is happening at Cincinnati, where president Nancy Zimpher has gone out of her way to undermine her athletic department's cash cow -- the men's basketball program -- at the exact moment the Bearcats are entering the enormously competitive Big East Conference.

Cincinnati announced Monday night that Zimpher won't extend Huggins' contract. With only two years remaining on his deal, Huggins and his staff will enter the Big East shark tank with dull teeth. Huggins and Co. might be good enough to pull it off and keep Cincinnati a nationally competitive program for years to come. Then again, it's possible no one is good enough to pull that off.

If Zimpher was smart -- too bad she's only the university president -- she'd have extended Huggins' contract through 2010, 2015, whenever ... and then written in a university option to buy out the contract for $1.4 million after the 2006-07 season. If the school was willing to pay $1.4 million to buy out Huggins now, and is only guaranteeing him two more years, what's the difference?

That way, Huggins could have told recruits that he planned to be the UC coach for the next decade, and he would have had a contract to prove it. At the same time, Zimpher would have had her protection against whatever it is she's worried about two years down the road.

This way, the Zimpher way, Huggins has been cut off at the ankles at the absolute worst time imaginable.

Well done, Nancy.

That was sarcasm, Nancy. We know you're not too fast on the uptake

Reds4Life
05-17-2005, 05:28 PM
I honestly think Nancy is hoping we get hammered in the Big East next year, then she can use the poor record to dismiss Huggs and "upgrade". Since she's basically flushed our recruiting ability down the toilet she just might get her wish.

cincinnati chili
05-17-2005, 06:22 PM
The revenue from the UC basketball program finances ALL the other sports in thier athletic department, without basketball there is no UC football.

Do you have numbers on this? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just find it interesting because football money can be so big, even for bad teams.

For example, I did some research a few years ago, and Indiana UNiv. football (bad team) was bringing in more money to the school than Indiana Basketball (good team). This was largely due to the fact that basketball's biggest championship is funnelled through the NCAA beauracracy, while football conferences horde/share their bowl revenues.

LoganBuck
05-17-2005, 09:19 PM
Without the numbers in front of me, I know that UC ties the Football tickets to the Basketball tickets through the UCats program. In order to get basketball tickets the members of Ucats must buy football tickets.

cincinnati chili
05-17-2005, 09:59 PM
Without the numbers in front of me, I know that UC ties the Football tickets to the Basketball tickets through the UCats program. In order to get basketball tickets the members of Ucats must buy football tickets.

Interesting. In order to buy this Bentley, you must also purchase this Yugo for your butler.

paintmered
05-17-2005, 10:12 PM
Do you have numbers on this? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just find it interesting because football money can be so big, even for bad teams.

For example, I did some research a few years ago, and Indiana UNiv. football (bad team) was bringing in more money to the school than Indiana Basketball (good team). This was largely due to the fact that basketball's biggest championship is funnelled through the NCAA beauracracy, while football conferences horde/share their bowl revenues.


I think that is true for bad teams playing in BCS conferences (Indiana, for example). Bowl money gets distributed evenly to every team in the conference. So Indiana gets a lot of money for being in the BigTen, UC gets much less money for C-USA. This should change in UC's favor assuming the Big East retains its BCS bid.

LoganBuck
05-17-2005, 10:20 PM
Paint is right. It was a very big thing for Big 10 schools when they were getting two BCS schools during 2002 and 2003. Each school in the conference got over 2 million bucks just from the BCS game payouts.

TeamCasey
05-19-2005, 12:35 PM
"Offering to buy out coach Bob Huggins' contract is the worst decision I have seen since the Reds hired Dan O'Brien." - Quote from a letter to the editor today. (Just made me giggle a little.)

Chip R
05-19-2005, 02:02 PM
Paint is right. It was a very big thing for Big 10 schools when they were getting two BCS schools during 2002 and 2003. Each school in the conference got over 2 million bucks just from the BCS game payouts.It's great when you are getting 2 teams from your conference in the BCS but that doesn't happen every year. I don't know about Indiana but I would think that in most mid-major teams - which UC is one - that football costs more than it brings in. Think about it: You have 100 guys on the team that all need equipment, scholarships, transportation to and from games, room, board, books, etc. Unless you have a stadium that holds over 60,000 people and it is filled every week, I'm guessing the football program is being ran at a defecit even with bowl game money.

MWM
05-19-2005, 02:24 PM
Do sports programs affect academics and prospective students' desire to go there? Notre Dame thinks the downturn in the football program has had a signifiant impact on applications received over the last 5 years. I've heard the same from other good academic schools with strong sports.

Roy Tucker
05-19-2005, 02:46 PM
Do sports programs affect academics and prospective students' desire to go there? Notre Dame thinks the downturn in the football program has had a signifiant impact on applications received over the last 5 years. I've heard the same from other good academic schools with strong sports.
(I mean to to thank Caveat for responding to my question a ways back. Sorry for being late.)

This is interesting. With 3 kids imminently going to college, what kind of sports success a school may be having isn't even on our radar for what schools to choose. For a 6-figure investment, I don't give a darn whether or not they play good hoops. The education is all I care about.

I suppose it might factor in a all-things-being-equal kind of comparison.

But I don't see the connection between winning a bowl game and the quality of a degree my child may get.

I suppose university donations may go up if a team has greater success enabling the school to have better facilities and a better staff? But that's more of a delayed reaction kind of thing and I don't think this is why applications would go down if the school's teams played badly.