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Reds/Flyers Fan
05-18-2005, 11:17 AM
Awesome! Five thumbs up! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Thanks to a friend who manages a Showcase Cinemas, I got a chance to see this movie two days early in an empty theater. The first real shows are at midnight tonight (12 a.m. Thursday morning) but some people who bought those midnight tickets in advance misunderstood and showed up at midnight last night.

Episode III is by far the best of the three prequels and, as far as story lines go, it easily rivals parts IV, V and VI. It's every bit as intense and dark as has been advertised. And, interestingly enough, knowing in advance the inevitable outcomes - especially Aniken's evolution into Darth Vader - made it even more intriguing and even painful. The epic battle scenes at the end are amazing...and surprising.

I can't wait to see it again this weekend.

westofyou
05-18-2005, 11:20 AM
Thanks to a friend who manages a Showcase Cinemas, I got a chance to see this movie two days early in an empty theater.

I worked as projectionist in HS and this sort of thing was commom practice on the nights before openings, we'd have a big party and screen the film for problems. Other theaters did it and we would go to theirs and they would come to ours.

Then we'd make giant reels of films out of previews and ads.... it was like reading Joyce... none of it made much sense.

TRF
05-18-2005, 05:23 PM
wait... Anakin is Vader?

damn it!

Johnny Footstool
05-18-2005, 05:29 PM
wait... Anakin is Vader?

damn it!

Just wait until you find out who Luke's father is.

Joseph
05-18-2005, 05:31 PM
Just wait until you find out who Luke's father is.

If you tell me it's Chewbacca I'm gonna hurl.

KronoRed
05-18-2005, 05:33 PM
If you tell me it's Chewbacca I'm gonna hurl.

It's an ewok.

Joseph
05-18-2005, 05:39 PM
It's an ewok.

George Lucas has lost his mind! :) I'd believe a jawa, but an ewok?!??!

RBA
05-18-2005, 07:38 PM
Jar Jar Binks?

MrCinatit
05-18-2005, 08:27 PM
dag nab it! had all my money on C3-PO!

paintmered
05-18-2005, 08:28 PM
And I always thought it was Gweedo the whole time.

penantboundreds
05-18-2005, 08:39 PM
Never seen a single Star Wars movie, nor have I seen a single Star Trek episode. On that note, can you gain/lose rep points on boards non-related to baseball?

KronoRed
05-18-2005, 08:42 PM
And I always thought it was Gweedo the whole time.

Gweedo never got a shot off.

KittyDuran
05-18-2005, 09:45 PM
Never seen a single Star Wars movie, nor have I seen a single Star Trek episode. On that note, can you gain/lose rep points on boards non-related to baseball?Yep!

Reds/Flyers Fan
05-18-2005, 10:42 PM
Gweedo never got a shot off.

On my VHS copy he most certainly gets off a shot. It's almost simultaneous.

Neo
05-19-2005, 03:31 AM
Well I went to the 12:01 showing tonight... I must say it was very good. I know I am not the avid Star Wars fan, but I enjoyed the other movies and this one was just incredible. I don't think there was a dull scene throughout the entire movie. Now that it is over I find it sad.

Johnny Footstool
05-19-2005, 04:11 AM
Just got back.

Good movie. Very good movie.

One thing that surprised me was how important the Cartoon Network's "Clone Wars" series was to this story. If you haven't seen it, you'll miss out on a lot of plot points in "Revenge of the Sith", especially where General Grievous (hack, wheeze) is concerned.

BuckeyeRed27
05-19-2005, 02:14 PM
I loved it. Great fights and a fantastic job by the cast.

I think when you are seeing a big movie like this its awesome to go to those 12:01 showings. The crowd is just into it and it makes it pretty cool.

Falls City Beer
05-19-2005, 03:03 PM
I loved it. Great fights and a fantastic job by the cast.

I think when you are seeing a big movie like this its awesome to go to those 12:01 showings. The crowd is just into it and it makes it pretty cool.

It's equally cool to go see a movie that's so bad, people get up and leave. Hilarious!

KronoRed
05-19-2005, 04:00 PM
On my VHS copy he most certainly gets off a shot. It's almost simultaneous.
Blasphamy! Han shot Greedo in cold blood :devil:

Boss-Hog
05-19-2005, 04:20 PM
Great, great movie.

ws1990reds
05-19-2005, 04:30 PM
I'm old-fashioned. Pass.

Raisor
05-19-2005, 10:19 PM
I thought it was great on the whole. George Lucas should never ever write any love dialog again for the rest of his life, though.

Some cool "cameos" (though not played by their original actors, of course, since alot of them have passed).

Caveat Emperor
05-20-2005, 12:36 AM
I worked as projectionist in HS and this sort of thing was commom practice on the nights before openings, we'd have a big party and screen the film for problems. Other theaters did it and we would go to theirs and they would come to ours.

I worked as a projectionist over the summers when I was in college; they actually paid me to attend those "screening parties" to make sure nothing was wrong with the film and sign off an "inspection report" that certified the film wasn't spliced incorrectly and that the condition was satisfactory.

By far, my favorite job that I've ever had. :thumbup:

Caveat Emperor
05-20-2005, 12:45 AM
As for "Episode III: Revenge of the Sith", I was one of the idiots who lined up at midnight down at Newport on the Levee. Absolutely loved it.

I thought there were several scenes that were just flat-out better than anything Lucas has ever directed before, and I thought this movie (for the first time in the new trilogy) succeeded because it grounded itself in questions of good and evil as opposed to the admittedly boring political squabbling that have tainted the last two films.

I plan on seeing it again at some point. That's something I really haven't said in a while about a movie.

bomarl1969
05-20-2005, 09:20 AM
Best of the first 3. The only part of the movie I didn't like was the cheesy nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo by Vader. Kudos for Lucas for not letting Jar Jar Binks have one single line in the movie. I wish that he would keep making Star Wars movies kinda like James Bond movies. They never get old and tons of people love them.

Johnny Footstool
05-20-2005, 09:46 AM
The only part of the movie I didn't like was the cheesy nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo by Vader.

I agree. I had a hard time keeping from laughing at that.

savafan
05-20-2005, 10:07 AM
Did any of you cry?

Johnny Footstool
05-20-2005, 11:57 AM
Did any of you cry?

I didn't see any reason to.

savafan
05-20-2005, 12:16 PM
I didn't see any reason to.

Lucas and Spielberg both said that this was a tearjerker and that many would cry at it.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but I've been reading the book. It is a very tragic and emotional story. I'll probably cry, but then I cry at everything.

Caveat Emperor
05-20-2005, 01:09 PM
I agree. I had a hard time keeping from laughing at that.

Like father like son.

Mark Hammill's "Nooooooooooooo!" line in The Empire Strikes Back does it's best to derail the scene it is in as well (can't though, just too awesome a revelation moment).

KronoRed
05-20-2005, 03:57 PM
Lucas and Spielberg both said that this was a tearjerker and that many would cry at it.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but I've been reading the book. It is a very tragic and emotional story. I'll probably cry, but then I cry at everything.

From what I've heard the cooky love story dialog lives on and would make you giggle not cry ;)

GoReds
05-20-2005, 11:00 PM
Saw the cameo of Chewbacca. Kinda wish they had found a way to incorporate a 10 year-old Han Solo into the movie - picking pockets or something along those lines.

savafan
05-21-2005, 02:01 AM
The movie was fantastic. Not as in depth as the book, but still very engrossing.

GOOCH
05-21-2005, 03:19 AM
Gweedo never got a shot off.

It's Greedo the Bounty Hunter (heh. Get it? Greed-o. Bounty hunter. Gun for hire. aka money. Ho yeah. Lucas, he was one for subtlety), but I'm with ya, Krono. Han shot Greedo...and Greedo did *not* shoot first. And that's why Han was cool.

FYI, you may enjoy this site:

http://www.fecundity.com/pmagnus/greedo.html

D.GOOCH

KronoRed
05-21-2005, 03:55 AM
Thanks Gooch..that page is hilarious :D

Raisor
05-21-2005, 09:26 AM
Saw the cameo of Chewbacca. Kinda wish they had found a way to incorporate a 10 year-old Han Solo into the movie - picking pockets or something along those lines.

that's exactly what I thought too. Could have lifted Ben Kenobi's wallet while walking down the street or something.

savafan
05-21-2005, 11:22 AM
I'm a bit surprised that Mon Mothma wasn't in this film, because she was in the book. IIRC, in the book there was a delegation of senators who were looking to overthrow Palpatine themselves, Mothma, Bail Organa and Padme Amidala among them.

Raisor
05-21-2005, 05:37 PM
I'm a bit surprised that Mon Mothma wasn't in this film, because she was in the book. IIRC, in the book there was a delegation of senators who were looking to overthrow Palpatine themselves, Mothma, Bail Organa and Padme Amidala among them.

She was in the movie, sitting behind Padme and Organa in the senate.

I think she was also on Organa's ship. Didn't have any lines though.

She'll have a much larger role (if I had to guess) in the upcoming Star Wars tv series.

Redsfaithful
05-21-2005, 06:13 PM
I'm a bit surprised that Mon Mothma wasn't in this film, because she was in the book. IIRC, in the book there was a delegation of senators who were looking to overthrow Palpatine themselves, Mothma, Bail Organa and Padme Amidala among them.

I read somewhere that the overthrow attempt was filmed but cut. Maybe it'll be on the DVD.

KronoRed
05-21-2005, 06:24 PM
I didn't get the mention of Qui Gon if they didn't even show him teaching Yoda the "join the force" trick, that could have been left out.

I'm sort of glad we didn't get a 10 year old Solo, the cameos were a bit much, Tarkin at the end not even getting any lines!

Falls City Beer
05-21-2005, 06:28 PM
I think there should have been cameos of the action figures. That would have been awesome. Like a battle between R2-D2 and R5-D4.

RBA
05-21-2005, 06:30 PM
I'm thinking they can make a whole new movie with Han Solo before he meets up with Luke.

How does Chewbacca end up with him to begin with?

KronoRed
05-21-2005, 06:33 PM
I'm thinking they can make a whole new movie with Han Solo before he meets up with Luke.

How does Chewbacca end up with him to begin with?

Episode 3.5?

Not a bad idea..bunch of stuff got left out.

Steve4192
05-21-2005, 06:52 PM
I think there should have been cameos of the action figures. That would have been awesome.
Sounds like a Trey Parker - Matt Stone project. They've already mastered marionettes and stop-motion animation with contruction paper. Now they can move on to stop-motion with action figures and eventually, dare I say it ... a claymation tribute to Ray Harryhausen.

Falls City Beer
05-21-2005, 07:04 PM
Sounds like a Trey Parker - Matt Stone project. They've already mastered marionettes and stop-motion animation with contruction paper. Now they can move on to stop-motion with action figures and eventually, dare I say it ... a claymation tribute to Ray Harryhausen.

"R-R-R-Release........

the Kracken!!!!!"

Raisor
05-21-2005, 07:11 PM
I'm sort of glad we didn't get a 10 year old Solo, the cameos were a bit much, Tarkin at the end not even getting any lines!


Just seeing him was great though.

There was no question that Tarkin was Vader's boss in A New Hope, so having him part of the group on the bridge of that early class Star Destroyer was pretty cool.

When the tv series starts, I hope we get to see some of the Expanded Universe characters. Garm Bel Iblis would be a natural if they're going to be showing us the beginning of the Rebel Alliance.

Raisor
05-21-2005, 07:13 PM
I'm thinking they can make a whole new movie with Han Solo before he meets up with Luke.

How does Chewbacca end up with him to begin with?

There was a three book series by Sci-Fi author AC Crispin about Han's early days, leading up to him being in the bar in Mos Eisley in ANH. While it doesn't have their first meeting, it does deal with Chewie's Life Debt to Han.

Pretty cool stuff, actually.

TRF
05-21-2005, 10:02 PM
Just seeing him was great though.

There was no question that Tarkin was Vader's boss in A New Hope, so having him part of the group on the bridge of that early class Star Destroyer was pretty cool.

When the tv series starts, I hope we get to see some of the Expanded Universe characters. Garm Bel Iblis would be a natural if they're going to be showing us the beginning of the Rebel Alliance.

TV series Lando?

animated or live action, or are you just speculating?

Caveat Emperor
05-22-2005, 03:29 AM
I didn't get the mention of Qui Gon if they didn't even show him teaching Yoda the "join the force" trick, that could have been left out.

I was actually most disappointed at that in the film. I'd really have liked an explanation as to what, exactly, is entailed by a Jedi disappearing and then reappearing as a "ghost." The description Yoda gives is tantalizing, indicating that Qui-Gon is the first Jedi to figure out how to do it. It'll obviously figure importantly into the story with Kenobi and Luke, so I think it should've gotten much more play.

Further, I'd have loved to see a scene where Kenobi discusses his failure with Qui-Gon. Obi Wan is going to basically have to live in exile for 20 years with nothing to think about except how his failure in training Anakin probably led to the complete destruction and murder of the Jedi and the rise of a tyrannical dictator to power. I'd love to have seen Qui-Gon's reaction to that.

KronoRed
05-22-2005, 05:57 AM
Obi Wan: "I failed!"

Qui-Gon: "Bummer"

;)

Raisor
05-22-2005, 09:35 AM
TV series Lando?

animated or live action, or are you just speculating?

You hadn't heard?

There's going to be a live action series coming out in 2006. First season will be completely written and directed by Lucas, second season+ will be run by someone else (speculation of Kevin Smith has been running wild for six months). It'll fill in the gap between III and IV.

There's also going to be an on-going animated show on Cartoon network. Haven't heard what time period it'll cover.

ochre
05-22-2005, 11:01 AM
I was actually most disappointed at that in the film. I'd really have liked an explanation as to what, exactly, is entailed by a Jedi disappearing and then reappearing as a "ghost." The description Yoda gives is tantalizing, indicating that Qui-Gon is the first Jedi to figure out how to do it. It'll obviously figure importantly into the story with Kenobi and Luke, so I think it should've gotten much more play.


It showed up in attack of the clones. I haven't seen sith yet (I was on the road and my wife made me wait until today, going later). When Anakin destroys the Sand People its Qui Gon's voice that is screaming "Anakin, NO!". Yoda looks up and realizes what has occured (both with anakin and qui-gon's discovery). I figure Yoda begins at that stage with figuring out what qui-gon has accomplished.

MWM
05-22-2005, 11:37 AM
Saw it last night and loved it. I thought overall it was just as good as any of the original three. The one problem I had with all three of the prequels, Sth included, is that I think Lucas really blew the single most important decision in these movies.... the actor to play Aniken. I thought the kid in the first one was dreadful and Haydn Christensen was Keanu Reeves bad. Seriously, I was there with a firend and we actually laughed at a couple of scenes. He was especially awful in the scene where Padme comes to where he is after he kills all the spearatists and thinks Obi-wan turned her against him. Basically, any scene that required any REAL acting, he was horrible, IMO.

I hate having to look past bad acting in a film, but this movie was so good, I didn't mind so much. It's just infortunate that it could have been so much better with a good actor in that role.

I'm just amazed at what a great overall story Lucas created from start to finish. Seriously, it's a very deep and complex story that's just fascinating. The whole story of the history of the jedi and the sith; the story of the conception of Anakin, the rise of Palpatine, his recognition of Aniken's potential and how he "mentored" him his entire life preparing him for his transition; how he actually convinced Aniken that the jedi were the traders; how it was actually his unwavering love for Padme that was his ultimate weak spot; then how Luke was born and found his way into the battle, and how ultimately Aniken couldn't kill Luke. It's just a fabulous and rich overall story. One of these days I'm gong to read the books.

I agree with some of the sentiment that there's a lot of things that could be explored further. There's just so much depth to the world Lucas created that he couldn't reasonably do everything.

RBA
05-22-2005, 11:54 AM
It's going to be a long 30 year wait when they remake the entire Star Wars series. :eek:

ochre
05-22-2005, 12:43 PM
Saw it last night and loved it. I thought overall it was just as good as any of the original three. The one problem I had with all three of the prequels, Sth included, is that I think Lucas really blew the single most important decision in these movies.... the actor to play Aniken. I thought the kid in the first one was dreadful and Haydn Christensen was Keanu Reeves bad. Seriously, I was there with a firend and we actually laughed at a couple of scenes. He was especially awful in the scene where Padme comes to where he is after he kills all the spearatists and thinks Obi-wan turned her against him. Basically, any scene that required any REAL acting, he was horrible, IMO.

I hate having to look past bad acting in a film, but this movie was so good, I didn't mind so much. It's just infortunate that it could have been so much better with a good actor in that role.


As much as I appreciate Lucas for his creations and innovations, he is really awful at dialog. Mace Windu has been an amazing disappointment (so far, again I won't see Sith until later in the day). I don't think Sam Jackson is a bad actor though. I feel much the same about Christiansen. I actually think he did pretty good in Attack of the Clones. He captured teem angst pretty well in my opinion. Teen angst can be uncomfortable to watch. Having been entirely enamored with the Star Wars universe since I was 7 years old, I have recently come to the conclusion that Mark Hamill really stunk (especially in Episode IV). I think the truly great actors have been able to get past the uncomfortable dialog that Lucas generates (McGregor, Guiness, Neeson, et al), but some of the other actors have had trouble, partially due to the significance of their roles in combination with the quality of the scripting for those roles (Hamill and Christiansen particularly).

I am still an extreme star wars geek though. (not of the type that make their own videos of light saber duals though).

savafan
05-22-2005, 01:13 PM
This TV series of which you speak, any word on if it will star the current cast of actors?

GAC
05-22-2005, 01:13 PM
Thanks for spoiling it for me guys!

ANIKEN IS DARTH VADER??? :p:

May the Swartz be with you!


My 9 yr old wants to go see it; but he has never seen one episode of Star Wars. I don't know if he'll be able to follow along. We're going as a family to see it next weekend. I may have to at least get the original Star Wars for him to watch to kind of fill him in some.

RBA
05-22-2005, 01:25 PM
I don't know, it might be better for him to see Episodes 1 and 2 first than this one and than the orginal and finish it out in order. But than again he might get confuse when Obe Wan Kenobi doesn't recognize R2D2 and C3PO, but maybe he pretends not to know them.

M2
05-22-2005, 01:26 PM
Just got back.

Good movie. Very good movie.

One thing that surprised me was how important the Cartoon Network's "Clone Wars" series was to this story. If you haven't seen it, you'll miss out on a lot of plot points in "Revenge of the Sith", especially where General Grievous (hack, wheeze) is concerned.

Back in the late '70s the Star Wars Marvel Comic bridged the gap between the original and Empire Strikes Back.

savafan
05-22-2005, 01:28 PM
GAC,

If I were you, I'd rent Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones for him to watch first. As a nine year old he'll probably love the pod race. After he sees Revenge of the Sith, then you should introduce him to the original masterpiece. That's what I would recommend. It'd be much easier for him to follow that way.

As for the series, I found this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/4484915.stm

Two Star Wars TV series will follow the latest movie in the hit film franchise, director George Lucas has said.

Animated show Clone Wars, currently broadcast as three-minute episodes, will become "a 3D animated" series of 30-minute shows, he said.

It would be followed by a live-action series featuring characters from the six Star Wars movies, he added.

"We're probably not going to start that for about a year," he told a Star Wars convention in Indianapolis.

'Step away'

The latest Star Wars film, Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, is released in most countries on 19 May.

The Clone Wars "micro-series" has had 25 three-minute episodes on Cartoon Network, taking the story up to Revenge of the Sith.

Mr Lucas told the Celebration III convention the live action TV series would be similar to Raiders of the Lost Ark spin-off The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles.

"Like on The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, we want to write all the stories for the entire first season all at once," he said.

"I'm going to get it started, and hire the show runners and all of that, then I'll probably step away."

He said the live action series would feature stories taking place between movie episodes three and four - Revenge of the Sith and the original 1977 Star Wars movie.

Lucas said he "never considered" extending the Stars Wars story beyond episode six - Return of the Jedi.

"To be very honest with you, I never ever thought of anything that happened beyond episode six," he said.

"It's the Darth Vader story. It starts with him being a young boy and it ends with him dying. I never ever really considered ever taking that particular story further."

Mr Lucas said the live action series would feature some existing Star Wars characters - but would not elaborate.

"There's a lot of issues that are connected, but you won't necessarily see a lot of the people that are connected," he said.

Empire favourite

No broadcast dates for either series have been announced.

More than 30,000 fans attended the convention. Away from Star Wars, Mr Lucas added a fourth Indiana Jones movie was "definitely in the works".

Meanwhile, The Empire Strikes Back has been named the favourite Star Wars movie in a poll of more than 40,000 readers of film magazine Empire.

Han Solo was voted the favourite hero, Chewbacca was top alien and X-wing pilot Wedge Antilles was favourite minor character.



Now, about Han Solo's back story, there is a trilogy of books that start with a 17 year old Han and take you up to the point where we meet him in episode IV. Check those out, they're pretty good.

Raisor
05-22-2005, 01:49 PM
Back in the late '70s the Star Wars Marvel Comic bridged the gap between the original and Empire Strikes Back.

The Marvel series has been retconned out of the history.

Raisor
05-22-2005, 01:51 PM
This TV series of which you speak, any word on if it will star the current cast of actors?


no word, as of yet. The interview I saw by Lucas said that it would be mostly new characters.

As much as I like Jimmy Smits on the West Wing, I really hope he stars in the new show. Going to be hard showing the early days of the Rebel Alliance without Bail Organna.

ochre
05-22-2005, 02:09 PM
as soon as my Mom and Dad get here to watch the kids I am off to see Sith.

KronoRed
05-22-2005, 05:31 PM
It's going to be a long 30 year wait when they remake the entire Star Wars series. :eek:

Nah, that will be when we get ep 7, 8 and 9 ;)


no word, as of yet. The interview I saw by Lucas said that it would be mostly new characters.

As much as I like Jimmy Smits on the West Wing, I really hope he stars in the new show. Going to be hard showing the early days of the Rebel Alliance without Bail Organna.

West Wing is probably gonna get the can after next season, so Smits would be available :)

Caveat Emperor
05-22-2005, 06:15 PM
West Wing is probably gonna get the can after next season, so Smits would be available :)

Or....:gasp: Arnold Vinnick could be your next POTUS instead of Matt Santos.

Raisor
05-22-2005, 07:18 PM
http://www.blisshouse.com/images/Monty_Python_2__limbless_Black_Knight.JPG

A picture of Anakin and Obi-Wan at the end of Sith.

KronoRed
05-22-2005, 08:23 PM
Or....:gasp: Arnold Vinnick could be your next POTUS instead of Matt Santos.

EWWW!!! ;)

Even if that did happen the show is gonna get the ax, ratings are down, most of the major characters contracts are up..last season ahead.

ochre
05-22-2005, 11:58 PM
Sith rocked. Pretty much exactly how I expected it to go. I thought Hayden Christenson did pretty well actually. That was a tough role for anybody to pull off.

Johnny Footstool
05-23-2005, 01:45 AM
Back in the late '70s the Star Wars Marvel Comic bridged the gap between the original and Empire Strikes Back.

I had a few of those books when I was little. Tore them up pretty badly.

Those stories and the awful early novels like "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" kept me from reading any of the subsequent books.

Lucas actually produced the "Clone Wars" cartoons, which is why they are so tightly integrated with the movies.

Caveat Emperor
05-23-2005, 02:05 AM
Those stories and the awful early novels like "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" kept me from reading any of the subsequent books.


:laugh:

I found "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" at a used bookstore two or so years back. The story behind that book is actually pretty interesting.

Lucas, as is pretty well known, sold off his director's fee for "Star Wars" in exchange for sequel rights and some merchandising rights. He was dead set on doing a sequel to Star Wars no matter how well Star Wars did at the box office, so, rumor has it, he hatched two contingency plans:

Plan #1: Star Wars does well and he films "Empire Strikes Back," the second film in his "great plan" for the Star Wars saga. "Empire" is a big sweeping epic that would require a lot of money to film and film correctly, so it would require that Lucas make enough of a profit on Star Wars in order to finance it.

Plan #2 was a contingency in case "Star Wars" did well (made it's money back), but not phenomenolly well at the box office like it ended up doing. Lucas would still film another "Star Wars" movie, but it would have to be done the limited budget Lucas could front himself or could get in financing from another studio.

Thus, he commissions Alan Dean Foster (the ghostwriter on the original novelization of "Star Wars") to write the contingency story right after the original Star Wars comes out. The story itself features several things that would help keep the budget of any film under control:

1. It's set entirely on a planet that is "perpetually shrouded in fog," which would allow the movie to be filmed mostly on a sound-stage (eliminating expensive location shoots) the way all of the Dagobah scenes were for "Empire Strikes Back"
2. There are no giant space battles that would require extensive (and expensive) use of modelwork to achieve
3. The cast was reduced to Carrie Fisher, Mark Hammil, Kenny Baker (R2D2), Anthony Daniels (C-3P0) and James Earl Jones and some extras who could play the local imperial troops on Mimban.

Well, Star Wars was a smash success at the box office and "Splinter" became the first Expanded Universe novel. It's interesting as the "Sequel that was never made" as well as for it's multiple plot hole blind alleys, such as the developing relationship between Luke and Leia (eww).

Of course, this is all conjecture, but the dots still connect up rather interestingly. :thumbup:

KronoRed
05-23-2005, 05:40 AM
Sith rocked. Pretty much exactly how I expected it to go.
That's my one complaint actually, it went just as I expected, no shocks, no surprises.

I say ep 7 comes out in 2012 ;)

gonelong
05-23-2005, 09:20 AM
Those stories and the awful early novels like "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" kept me from reading any of the subsequent books.


I read "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" when I was a kid. I never read another Star Wars book as I assumed they all sucked eggs.

GL

ochre
05-23-2005, 10:25 AM
That's my one complaint actually, it went just as I expected, no shocks, no surprises.


Having said it went as expected, it was a bit more misogynistic than I expected. Anakin as Adam, Padme as Eve.

Caveat Emperor
05-23-2005, 12:05 PM
I read "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" when I was a kid. I never read another Star Wars book as I assumed they all sucked eggs.

GL

The majority of them do, in fact, suck eggs. I bought a bunch of them in a used bookstore a few summers ago when I was still in college and bored. I found, maybe, 2 or 3 that I actually liked out of the whole lot.

Sean_CaseyRules
05-23-2005, 12:07 PM
I think i have two of the books, but they are stored somewhere...

Red Leader
05-23-2005, 12:11 PM
Ok, here's my dilemma. My wife thinks this movie will be too violent for our 6 year old to watch. He's seen Eps 1,2,4,5,6. Is Revenge of the Sith that much more violent than the others? Would you allow a younger child to watch this film? She wants to "pre-screen" it before agreeing to let him watch it. Problem is, we're never going to have time to go see it by ourselves and get a babysitter to do that. So unless I can talk her into letting him see it, I'm not going to be able to see it either.

savafan
05-23-2005, 12:17 PM
Ok, here's my dilemma. My wife thinks this movie will be too violent for our 6 year old to watch. He's seen Eps 1,2,4,5,6. Is Revenge of the Sith that much more violent than the others? Would you allow a younger child to watch this film? She wants to "pre-screen" it before agreeing to let him watch it. Problem is, we're never going to have time to go see it by ourselves and get a babysitter to do that. So unless I can talk her into letting him see it, I'm not going to be able to see it either.

There's really only one overly violent scene. I have no problem taking my 5 year old niece to see it, she loves Star Wars.

KronoRed
05-23-2005, 12:56 PM
I can think of 2 parts where the kid will need his eyes covered

When Anakin walks into the Jedi temple with the troopers..cover the EYES!

also, when Obi Wan mentions high ground..COVER EYES

;)

Red Leader
05-23-2005, 12:58 PM
I can think of 2 parts where the kid will need his eyes covered

When Anakin walks into the Jedi temple with the troopers..cover the EYES!

also, when Obi Wan mentions high ground..COVER EYES

;)

Thanks, Krono!

Oh, and cover your eyes: ;)

http://www.absolutely.net/portman/index.jpg

Raisor
05-23-2005, 04:07 PM
The novels have really gotten better over the years.

The whole New Jedi Order series, which started back around 99 and finished up last year ranged from pretty good to FANTASTIC. Think it covered right around 15 novels with ultra tight continunity.

My other two recommendations are Timothy Zahn's "Thrawn" series. Take place about 4-years after ROTJ, deals with an Imperial Grand Admerial taking over the remains of the Imperial Fleet. Great Great stuff.
Also, check out the X-Wing novels by Mike Stackpoole and Aaron Alliston. All good stuff.

ochre
05-23-2005, 04:33 PM
Only ones I didn't like were the Kevin Anderson series'.

HotCorner
05-23-2005, 04:34 PM
I can think of 2 parts where the kid will need his eyes covered

When Anakin walks into the Jedi temple with the troopers..cover the EYES!

also, when Obi Wan mentions high ground..COVER EYES

;)

SPOILER ALERT!!

Also when Anakin beheads Count Dooku ... you see his head roll on the floor. It's not graphic but might scare a little one.

ochre
05-23-2005, 04:41 PM
SPOILER ALERT!!

Also when Anakin beheads Count Dooku ... you see his head roll on the floor. It's not graphic but might scare a little one.
I found that to be about equivalent to jango fett's beheading in Episode II. So, that can be a point of reference for people that aren't sure still. I think the "come on baby light my fire" part is the part my kids might have a problem with.

HotCorner
05-23-2005, 04:45 PM
I think the "come on baby light my fire" part is the part my kids might have a problem with.

Agreed.

savafan
05-23-2005, 05:08 PM
If you thought Natalie looked bad in the other picture, take a look at her now.

http://www.nypost.com/photos/movielede05162005.jpg

Raisor
05-23-2005, 05:26 PM
Only ones I didn't like were the Kevin Anderson series'.

Yeah, KJA's Jedi Acadamy books were AWFUL. Mike Stackpoole had to "fix" some of it in his Corren Horn novel "I, Jedi", which was really good.

I also didn't like the Corellian Trilogy by Kube.

There's quite a bit of junk in the Expanded Universe line, but there's some really good stuff too.

Red Leader
05-23-2005, 05:28 PM
If you thought Natalie looked bad in the other picture, take a look at her now.

http://www.nypost.com/photos/movielede05162005.jpg

Did she agree to do a GI Jane sequel or something? :laugh:

Caveat Emperor
05-23-2005, 05:50 PM
My other two recommendations are Timothy Zahn's "Thrawn" series. Take place about 4-years after ROTJ, deals with an Imperial Grand Admerial taking over the remains of the Imperial Fleet. Great Great stuff.

The "Thrawn" trilogy (and 2-book conclusion effort, which were weaker, but still good material overall) were the ones I alluded to as being well worth the time and effort.

They introduced the only characters, in my mind, that are even worth speaking of in the same breath as the movie characters: Mara Jade (before her character got all messed up by the other authors) and Grand Admiral Thrawn. I also didn't mind Talon Kardde too much either, but he basically took over the loveable rogue character that Han Solo vacated as soon as he became domesticated in the book series.

If you're hankering for a "Star Wars" fix, those 5 books by Timothy Zahn are not bad bits of light reading.

ochre
05-23-2005, 06:06 PM
I'd put several of the rogue squadron books by stackpole up there too.

KronoRed
05-23-2005, 06:23 PM
Thanks, Krono!

Oh, and cover your eyes: ;)

http://www.absolutely.net/portman/index.jpg

I like that picture :thumbup:

Caveat Emperor
05-23-2005, 06:45 PM
I agree, she's beautiful in just about any shot (sans the 'non-hair' ones that have been popping up lately)...if you like Natalie Portman, all I can say is: go rent "Closer" on DVD. :D

Michael Allred
05-25-2005, 03:16 PM
Thanks for spoiling it for me guys!

ANIKEN IS DARTH VADER??? :p:

May the Swartz be with you!


My 9 yr old wants to go see it; but he has never seen one episode of Star Wars. I don't know if he'll be able to follow along. We're going as a family to see it next weekend. I may have to at least get the original Star Wars for him to watch to kind of fill him in some.

Why not rent the first 2 episodes and let him watch those first? It'd make a heck of a lot more sense. Watching what comes *after* won't fill him in really, ya know?

LvJ
05-25-2005, 06:22 PM
What's with the Portman hate? She's beautiful in those pictures above, and she pulls off the baldness wickedly well. :dancingco

KronoRed
05-25-2005, 06:37 PM
What's with the Portman hate? She's beautiful in those pictures above, and she pulls off the baldness wickedly well. :dancingco

She was foolish enough not to see Anakin was quite clearly insane!! ;)

LvJ
05-25-2005, 06:54 PM
She was foolish enough not to see Anakin was quite clearly insane!! ;) Love can blind ones vision. Proof: RedsZone. :runaway:

Joseph
05-25-2005, 07:13 PM
no word, as of yet. The interview I saw by Lucas said that it would be mostly new characters.

As much as I like Jimmy Smits on the West Wing, I really hope he stars in the new show. Going to be hard showing the early days of the Rebel Alliance without Bail Organna.

All words I've heard say there will be virtually nothing on the main characters from films, but rather all minor supporting characters.

As to the subject of books, I loved most of the NJO series, but my favorite is Shadows of the Empire which dealt with the Black Sun and the Star Wars 'mafia.'

Falls City Beer
05-25-2005, 07:49 PM
If Natalie Portman came up to me and said "Padme!" I would, without thinking twice.

Dan
05-26-2005, 07:01 PM
Just wait until you find out who Luke's father is.

Leia?

savafan
05-27-2005, 11:33 AM
How about another prequel movie?

http://www.cinematical.com/2005/05/25/lucas-idea-for-new-star-wars-prequel/

George Lucas said he was finished with the Star Wars movies. Ebert didn't believe him, Karina didn't get it, but more importantly - WE wanted more. Stupid Us. It seems George Lucas told a scooper that he has an idea for another add-on to the Star Wars movie series: a prequel to The Phantom Menace. The story would follow the Jedi regaining control of the universe from the many Dark Lords some 88 years before Anakin Skywalker ever graced the universe. Yoda, who, according to Lucas, was instrumental in the effort, would apparently have a headlining role. However, Lucas, now age 60, says he won't be captaining such a ship if it ever happens.

Joseph
05-27-2005, 03:37 PM
How about another prequel movie?

http://www.cinematical.com/2005/05/25/lucas-idea-for-new-star-wars-prequel/

George Lucas said he was finished with the Star Wars movies. Ebert didn't believe him, Karina didn't get it, but more importantly - WE wanted more. Stupid Us. It seems George Lucas told a scooper that he has an idea for another add-on to the Star Wars movie series: a prequel to The Phantom Menace. The story would follow the Jedi regaining control of the universe from the many Dark Lords some 88 years before Anakin Skywalker ever graced the universe. Yoda, who, according to Lucas, was instrumental in the effort, would apparently have a headlining role. However, Lucas, now age 60, says he won't be captaining such a ship if it ever happens.

Very very interesting.

KronoRed
05-27-2005, 05:58 PM
What's that? episode 0? -1?

;)

Caveat Emperor
05-27-2005, 06:01 PM
So, would that mean that the Galactic Senate had only been "in power" for 88 years?

And how would that jive with Kenobi's comment in "A New Hope" where he states that "Over a thousand generations the Jedi were the guardians of peace in the Old Republic..."? Now, if the idea is to make a film about the Sith Wars that took place back around the time of the computer game "Knights of the Old Republic," I'd be completely a fan of that.

But, I don't buy the Prequel Universe as being just 88 years removed from a major interstellar conflict...

KronoRed
05-27-2005, 06:09 PM
I kind of wish he would just remake 4,5, and 6 instead of editing them over and over to make them fit..just re-shoot them, put the originals on dvd for die hards..call them 4A 5A 6A..and go from there..8 more years of hype :D

Raisor
05-28-2005, 04:57 PM
Just got finished watching Episodes 4-6 again, the first time since seeing 3, and I have to say, I can FEEL the difference.

Before it always felt like Luke's movie(s), but now it's Anakin.

I actually, for the first time in years, got chills when Vader kills the Emperor and when he shows up with Obi-Wan and Yoda at the end.

Lucas pulled it off.

tommycatluvsme
05-28-2005, 10:13 PM
Lucas is brilliant.

Danny Serafini
05-29-2005, 11:33 AM
http://www.nypost.com/photos/movielede05162005.jpg

Wow, I didn't know Sinead O'Connor was in Star Wars.

Raisor
05-29-2005, 02:05 PM
One of my favorite comic book artists posted this picture on his website.

Darick Robertson (former New Warriors and Wolverine artist)


I think they're going to need more Stormtroopers...

http://www.ait-planetlar.com/resources/UsVs.Them.jpg

(That's Superman (of course) Captain America, and Nick Fury, btw)

Caveat Emperor
05-29-2005, 02:14 PM
Just got finished watching Episodes 4-6 again, the first time since seeing 3, and I have to say, I can FEEL the difference.

Before it always felt like Luke's movie(s), but now it's Anakin.

I actually, for the first time in years, got chills when Vader kills the Emperor and when he shows up with Obi-Wan and Yoda at the end.

Lucas pulled it off.

I've done the same thing, and I think that E3 most impacts the way I view Return of the Jedi.

The difference between Anakin and Luke is all in the choices they make; both are conflicted individuals, but Anakin cannot see past his own needs whereas Luke seems to be able to take in the larger picture.

For my money, the best scene in the Trilogy now becomes where Luke takes the mask off Vader at the end of Jedi and he dies as Anakin Skywalker (complete with the great music, playing the Imperial March one note at a time).

GAC
05-29-2005, 06:11 PM
Just got back from seeing it with my 9 yr old son. Technically and visually excellent!

I remember Lucas saying years later that he wishes they had the technology then so he could have done the original Star Wars like he wanted.

The circle is now complete.

I went to all 4 video stores here in Bellefontaine and tried to rent Episodes 1 and 2, along with the original Star Wars. I could only find Episode 1 (and it's still as boring as before).

KronoRed
05-29-2005, 08:18 PM
Ep 1 was a mistake, 1 and 2 could have been combined to make one great movie...allowing 3 to be expanded into 2 movies that wouldn't seem so rushed.

Sean_CaseyRules
05-29-2005, 11:00 PM
Anyone watch G4 on stallite? they have had star warsstuff on like the past 2 weeks...

savafan
05-30-2005, 09:43 AM
So, does Anakin bring balance to the force by killing Palpatine and wiping out the Sith in episode 6 (ROTJ)? Is Luke actually the chosen one? Just curious what everyone thinks.

Jaycint
05-30-2005, 10:12 AM
If you thought Natalie looked bad in the other picture, take a look at her now.

http://www.nypost.com/photos/movielede05162005.jpg


She's even hot without the hair. :notworthy

Redsland
05-30-2005, 10:35 AM
It'll grow back, It is her destiny.

;)

Boss-Hog
05-30-2005, 10:36 AM
So, does Anakin bring balance to the force by killing Palpatine and wiping out the Sith in episode 6 (ROTJ)? Is Luke actually the chosen one? Just curious what everyone thinks.

Yes and no (Anakin is the chosen one, just not the way the Jedi imagined).

cincinnati chili
05-30-2005, 10:42 AM
So, does Anakin bring balance to the force by killing Palpatine and wiping out the Sith in episode 6 (ROTJ)? Is Luke actually the chosen one? Just curious what everyone thinks.

I interpreted it to mean he brings Luke into the world via Padme. But yeah, killing Palpatine in Episode VI. That counts too.

Boss-Hog
05-30-2005, 11:03 AM
Luke is "The New Hope" (and a very underrated character, IMO, if that's possible for someone with such a large role). However, and Lucas has said this himself, episodes I-VI are all about the life and death, or the rise and fall, of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader. He IS the chosen one, just in a round about way.

savafan
05-30-2005, 11:06 AM
However, and Lucas has said this himself, episodes I-VI are all about the life and death, or the rise and fall, of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader. He IS the chosen one, just in a round about way.

I've known this for a while, but have always had a hard time convincing others.

Johnny Footstool
05-30-2005, 12:51 PM
Anakin brought "balance" to the Force by killing off the Jedi. Before that, the scales were tipped heavily to the light side of the Force. He tipped them to the dark side, then killed Palpatine and brought everything back into balance.

savafan
05-30-2005, 12:56 PM
Anakin brought "balance" to the Force by killing off the Jedi. Before that, the scales were tipped heavily to the light side of the Force. He tipped them to the dark side, then killed Palpatine and brought everything back into balance.

Interesting, hadn't looked at it that way.

Boss-Hog
05-30-2005, 01:00 PM
Anakin brought "balance" to the Force by killing off the Jedi. Before that, the scales were tipped heavily to the light side of the Force. He tipped them to the dark side, then killed Palpatine and brought everything back into balance. That's a good take, as well.

My only question is this - as you mentioned, the scales were tipped heavily towards the light side even before Anakin was even discovered. That being the case, why did he need to bring balance to the force, from the light side's perspective, since they were the ones generally in control?

SandyD
05-30-2005, 01:16 PM
That's just it ... from the light side's perspective.

Perhaps both sides were getting too powerful. Both sides were using the force to their own ends. The "light side" may have had the best of intentions, but who's to say they were always "right"?

And, power corrupts. No one is perfect, so how do you prevent others from turning to the dark side? Better the ability to manipulate the force dies out with Luke?

I agree with JF's interpretation.

KronoRed
05-30-2005, 04:22 PM
And, power corrupts. No one is perfect, so how do you prevent others from turning to the dark side? Better the ability to manipulate the force dies out with Luke?


I always thought Luke was the 'New Beginning' the first in a new type of Jedi... :confused:

Boss-Hog
05-30-2005, 04:26 PM
Luke is the "New Hope" that the title of episode IV refers to.

SandyD
05-30-2005, 09:01 PM
yeah, could be, Krono ... after all the last movie was called "The Return of the Jedi."

I just don't quite see that as balance. You give people power, someone will abuse it. So you start training new Jedi, you'll eventually have Sith. But maybe the cycle just starts all over again.

GAC
05-30-2005, 09:20 PM
Since seeing this newest version with my 9 yr old son he has been hitting me with all types of questions (driving me nuts!!!).

He bought a Darth Sidious action figure this weekend.

I think all children gravitate to the "dark side". :lol:

I gotta rent the original trilogy so that he knows how things turn out. Right now he thinks the Jedi are a bunch of wousys. And that "little green guy" as he refers to him (Yoda) freaked him out. :lol:

Caveat Emperor
05-30-2005, 10:25 PM
Anakin brought "balance" to the Force by killing off the Jedi. Before that, the scales were tipped heavily to the light side of the Force. He tipped them to the dark side, then killed Palpatine and brought everything back into balance.

The way I always interpreted it was that the Sith (Dark Side) were a "perversion" of the natural order and that their very existence was unnatural and tainted the force (see: Mace Windu's comment in E2 about their ability to see the future being clouded by the Dark Side; Palpatine's line in E3 about the Dark Side being considered "unnatural"; Yoda's comment about death being the way of the force whereas Sith hold onto life long beyond their natural time). As long as a Sith exists and is using the Dark Side, the Force is out of it's natural balance.

Thus, it was Anakin's fate to destroy the Sith and restore balance to the Force. He does this in Return of the Jedi when he kills the Emporer and then turns back to the light side and dies, effectively removing the only two Sith from the universe...

At least, that's my take...

Johnny Footstool
05-31-2005, 12:47 AM
As long as a Sith exists and is using the Dark Side, the Force is out of it's natural balance.

Yin and Yang. Positive and negative. Light can't exist without dark, and they always swing back into balance. One has to counter the other.

gm
05-31-2005, 12:03 PM
Obi Wan is going to basically have to live in exile for 20 years with nothing to think about except how his failure in training Anakin probably led to the complete destruction and murder of the Jedi and the rise of a tyrannical dictator to power.

Yeah, and it "aged" him much more than those 20 years. McGregor to...Guinness?

In E6 Kenobi tells Luke that he failed because of pride "I thought I could train your father better than Yoda, I was wrong." But the story didn't play out quite that way in E2-3. Kenobi convinced the council that he should train Skywalker, but it wasn't like Obi-Wan was so full of himself that he demanded that he train Anakin instead of Yoda. It was more like "the prophecy said that a chosen one was coming to balance the force, and we think he's the chosen one, right?" Hardly a case of Obi-wan letting his pride get in the way

Steve4192
05-31-2005, 01:09 PM
Yeah, and it "aged" him much more than those 20 years. McGregor to...Guinness?
They aren't THAT far off.

Alec Guinness was born in 1914, making him 63 years old at the time 'A New Hope' was released in 1977. Ewan McGregor was born in 1971, making him 34 at the time 'Revenge of the Sith' was released. Take out the 20 years that are supposed to elapse from the end of Epidsode III until the start of Episode IV, and the difference is only 9 years.

Joseph
05-31-2005, 04:11 PM
Maybe I'm being obstinate, but I still see Luke as the one who bring balance to the force, always will. I fully understand the point of view about Anakin being the Chosen One, but to me he swung power to the Dark side because he and Palpatine were stronger than any of the then current Jedi. Luke however, counteracted that reign and brought some semblance of balance.

GOOCH
05-31-2005, 04:22 PM
Another prequel? God, shoot me now. Talk about an inability to move past one good idea. D.GOOCH (just don't get me started on Darth Lucas...)

ochre
05-31-2005, 04:31 PM
the Jedi assumed "balance to the force" meant "rid them of the disturbances" that they had been encountering. Yoda was right. They missinterpreted the meaning of "bring balance to the force". There could very well have been a follow on, as yet undiscovered, prophecy that Luke would bring "balance to the force" again after the tide switched to the Sith advantage, but any record of said prophecy would have been lost in the destruction of all things Jedi as Palpatine/Sidious purged their collected knowledge from the Empire.

I am still surprised that in the end Lucas' foil was a woman. Very misogynic approach to the epic tale. Luke and Anakin, Anakin loved a woman unconditionally and it caused his demise; Luke was devoted to a cause and ended up a success.

Reds/Flyers Fan
05-31-2005, 05:01 PM
Maybe I'm being obstinate, but I still see Luke as the one who bring balance to the force, always will. I fully understand the point of view about Anakin being the Chosen One, but to me he swung power to the Dark side because he and Palpatine were stronger than any of the then current Jedi. Luke however, counteracted that reign and brought some semblance of balance.

>>SPOILER ALERT<<

In my best Yoda speak:

Agree I do not that Vader and Palpatine were stronger than any current Jedi. Obi Wan clearly defeated Anakin/Vader one-on-one at the end of E3 and chose not to finish him off. The question is why? Did he not deliver the fatal blow to Vader because he thought his situation was helpless and he wouldn't survive in his condition just inches from molten lava? Or, as is my theory, did he not kill Vader because he still believed the prophecy that Anakin would eventually bring balance to the force -- something that would never be possible if he was dead? Perhaps Obi Wan thought that if Anakin could somehow survive then maybe he was the "Chosen One" after all.

As to who was stronger, consider that Master Windu had Palpatine defeated before Anakin interferred. Yoda vs. Palpatine was esentially a draw. And Obi Wan beat Vader (in their first battle at least) and had already beaten Darth Maul. The only way the Sith could gain the upper hand was because of that dirty "Order 66" sneak attack that caught the Jedi by complete surprise.

GAC
05-31-2005, 05:09 PM
I think Darth Vader was still the "chosen one" and responsible for bringing that "balance" back into the force. In that final battle with his son he realized what he had become, what the dark side and the Emporer's influence and treachery had made him into, and became Anakin once again when he intervened and killed the Emporer. If he hadn't intervened and saved Luke, then the dark side would have won once again. I don't think Luke was strong enough to defeat the Emporer in their head to head conflict. He needed Darth to intervene and realize his true destiny.

Then again, one could also say that Luke's strength and resolve, while not powerful enough to defeat the Emporer himself, was able to "open the eyes" of Darth Vader as he witnessed his son's losing battle with the Emporer, and thus bring Darth back to his postion as the chosen one in that climatic moment.

ochre
05-31-2005, 05:28 PM
>>SPOILER ALERT<<

In my best Yoda speak:

Agree I do not that Vader and Palpatine were stronger than any current Jedi. Obi Wan clearly defeated Anakin/Vader one-on-one at the end of E3 and chose not to finish him off. The question is why? Did he not deliver the fatal blow to Vader because he thought his situation was helpless and he wouldn't survive in his condition just inches from molten lava? Or, as is my theory, did he not kill Vader because he still believed the prophecy that Anakin would eventually bring balance to the force -- something that would never be possible if he was dead? Perhaps Obi Wan thought that if Anakin could somehow survive then maybe he was the "Chosen One" after all.

As to who was stronger, consider that Master Windu had Palpatine defeated before Anakin interferred. Yoda vs. Palpatine was esentially a draw. And Obi Wan beat Vader (in their first battle at least) and had already beaten Darth Maul. The only way the Sith could gain the upper hand was because of that dirty "Order 66" sneak attack that caught the Jedi by complete surprise.
Palpatine was playing oppossum with Windu. He needed Anakin to "think" that the Jedi were corrupt. He (Palpatine) would have never allowed Mace to kill him (Palpatine).

Obi Wan told Yoda that he couldn't kill Anakin. I think that is why he didn't finish him off. I am sure he would have thought the lava would be sufficient to kill him.

Order 66 was genetically programed into the clones from what I understand. While it might have been dirty, the "sneak" component should have been discoverable, had the Jedi checked into the nature by which the clones were ordered.

KronoRed
05-31-2005, 06:08 PM
I disagree, I think Mace had Palp defeated, if not for Anakin showing up Palp is in 2 pieces on the floor...that's why he called for Anakin

IMO :D

Oh..and watching the movies 4-6 then 1-3 works out a lot better :)

Johnny Footstool
05-31-2005, 11:40 PM
Yoda was right. They missinterpreted the meaning of "bring balance to the force".

Bingo.



I am still surprised that in the end Lucas' foil was a woman. Very misogynic approach to the epic tale.

Yes, but that element is consistent with the classic Greek myths the story is based on.

DoogMinAmo
06-01-2005, 02:37 AM
Here is a side note that might not be too irrelevant. When Anakin is found in E1, Yoda claims that he is too old to be taught, and that fear has already entered his heart. However, Luke does not start training until WAYYYYY later in life in E4. Does this mean that Luke had to be the "chosen one," or was Yoda just ecstatic to find another person with the force that he ignored the age problem? To me, it spells a greater roll of importance for Luke, one that Yoda acknowledges by training him.

Raisor
06-01-2005, 08:25 AM
Here is a side note that might not be too irrelevant. When Anakin is found in E1, Yoda claims that he is too old to be taught, and that fear has already entered his heart. However, Luke does not start training until WAYYYYY later in life in E4. Does this mean that Luke had to be the "chosen one," or was Yoda just ecstatic to find another person with the force that he ignored the age problem? To me, it spells a greater roll of importance for Luke, one that Yoda acknowledges by training him.


I'm going with Yoda not having any choice at that point. Luke was Yoda and Obi-Wan's weapon against the Sith. Too old or not, he was going to have to do the job.

Redsland
06-01-2005, 08:40 AM
It does beg the question of why Luke couldn't have begun his training on Tatooine at a more appropriate age.

Boss-Hog
06-01-2005, 09:40 AM
It does beg the question of why Luke couldn't have begun his training on Tatooine at a more appropriate age. I figure that's where Uncle Owen's influence came into play.

ochre
06-01-2005, 09:43 AM
I'm going with Yoda not having any choice at that point. Luke was Yoda and Obi-Wan's weapon against the Sith...
More specifically against Vader. I think it comes back to Padme's dying words; "There's still good in him".

Redsland
06-01-2005, 09:48 AM
I figure that's where Uncle Owen's influence came into play.
Certainly that's the implication, but we know Obi-Wan gave him a child. That's pretty big. It would not be out of line for that transaction to have some parameters attached to it. "You raise him, I teach him," or some such arrangement.

savafan
06-01-2005, 09:48 AM
Yoda does say to Obi Wan's spirit in Empire that Luke is too old to begin the training.

As for Mace Windu, he was devoted to preserving the Republic. His downfall was his love and attachment to the Republic. Jedi are not to have attachments to anything. (I learned this from the novel).

Obi Wan's fatal flaw was his love for Anakin. They were like brothers. He couldn't kill him, yet another instance where a Jedi was too attached.

savafan
06-01-2005, 09:50 AM
Certainly that's the implication, but we know Obi-Wan gave him a child. That's pretty big. It would not be out of line for that transaction to have some parameters attached to it. "You raise him, I teach him," or some such arrangement.

I think that OBi Wan had to stay in hiding to make sure that Palpatine and Vader couldn't find him. If he had begun to train Luke before he was ready, then Palpatine and Vader surely would have sensed it in the Force, no?

Redsland
06-01-2005, 09:58 AM
Obi-Wan was "in hiding" a couple of dunes away from Luke. I don't see how classes in Anger Management 101 would have put a beacon over such a bleak and distant place.

No armada decended on Dagobah.

Raisor
06-01-2005, 10:14 AM
Obi-Wan was "in hiding" a couple of dunes away from Luke. I don't see how classes in Anger Management 101 would have put a beacon over such a bleak and distant place.

No armada decended on Dagobah.

The Dark Side cave, it's been speculated, hid Yoda from the Emperor and Vader. Why else would he put his home so close to such a place of evil?

Redsland
06-01-2005, 12:17 PM
For the chicks?

:)

Johnny Footstool
06-01-2005, 12:20 PM
Easy access to frog meat?

savafan
06-01-2005, 01:03 PM
Yet another source on a new prequel to the prequels:

http://doubleagent.com/article.php?a=697

Just when you thought that George Lucas was serious when he said he was done with the Star Wars series, fans may pleasantly surprised. It is being said that a seventh installment is being planned.

Lucas had previously stated that Revenge of the Sith was to be the last. However, it looks like he has changed his mind and is currently developing a prequel to The Phantom Menace.An movie insider has revealed: “George believes there are even more stories to tell. His latest idea would feature an almost all-new cast, apart from the Jedi master Yoda, who would be the hero of the new movie.”

The film in question would be set 100 years earlier than the current movies.
If Lucas made Yoda the hero, it would be a popular move with Star Wars fans.Yoda, voiced by Frank Oz, is the one who trained Luke Skywalker to defeat Darth Vadar and is considered to be a cult hero among devotees.

It has been said that since Lucas doesn’t need the money after the success of the first six films, he will try to take a back seat throughout the latest film’s production.

bomarl1969
06-01-2005, 02:01 PM
I feel that Mace Windu was a major determining factor in Anakin's "switch" to the Dark Side. Master Windu never respected Anakin and he took it personally when he didn't receive the title of Master in E3. I know the main reason for the switch was to save Padme (or at least he thought) but I feel that Windu didn't help matters none.

Rojo
06-01-2005, 03:19 PM
They made a big deal of disabling the thingee that would lure all the Jedi back to the temple. So are there other Jedi left?

What I'd like to see isn't a prequel but a movie between III and IV -- basically the formation of the Rebel Alliance.

ochre
06-01-2005, 04:54 PM
They made a big deal of disabling the thingee that would lure all the Jedi back to the temple. So are there other Jedi left?

What I'd like to see isn't a prequel but a movie between III and IV -- basically the formation of the Rebel Alliance.
Bail Organa formed the Rebel Alliance at the end of III :)

The post episode VI books (Zahn, et al) indicate that Palpatine was pretty effective in his eradication of the jedi. There was an insane jedi clone that Luke discovered on some planet in Zahn's Thrawn trilogy I believe, but no mention of any (other) surviving jedi.

KronoRed
06-01-2005, 06:42 PM
Episode 3.5 sounds good :D

Raisor
06-01-2005, 07:07 PM
Episode 3.5 sounds good :D

That's what the tv series mentioned earlier in the thread is going to be.

KronoRed
06-01-2005, 07:13 PM
Yes I know..I don't think it's such a hot idea..should be a movie.

Raisor
06-01-2005, 07:14 PM
Bail Organa formed the Rebel Alliance at the end of III :)



Actually, he just formed his cell of it. The Rebel Alliance is an alliance of smaller individual rebel cells. The Rebels in A New Hope were part of Organa's cell. It wasn't until Episode VI that all the various cells got together under one command, though they'd been working together all along.

Expanded Universe sources tell the story of the three main rebel leaders, Organa, Mon Mothma, and Senator Garm Bel Ellis forming the Rebel Alliance with the Corellian Treaty, though Bel Ellis eventually pulled his faction out when Mon Mothma kept taking more and more control, especially after Organa was killed when the Death Star destroyed his planet.


Lot's of interesting things to keep us going for years.

Raisor
06-01-2005, 07:15 PM
Yes I know..I don't think it's such a hot idea..should be a movie.

Personally, I think a series is a great idea. That's a lot of time to fill in a two hour movie. A 22 episode per season series would be awesome.

KronoRed
06-01-2005, 07:22 PM
It also can end up with continuity violations all over the place, if it has to be a tv series it should be short, 12 episodes.

Caveat Emperor
06-02-2005, 12:21 AM
Bail Organa formed the Rebel Alliance at the end of III :)

The post episode VI books (Zahn, et al) indicate that Palpatine was pretty effective in his eradication of the jedi. There was an insane jedi clone that Luke discovered on some planet in Zahn's Thrawn trilogy I believe, but no mention of any (other) surviving jedi.

The dedication to the expanded universe of Star Wars material by Lucas has been spotty at best thus far...

See: Boba Fett's origin, Stormtroopers as clones, methodology of creating clones, the Jedi order's bans on relationships, etc...

Boss-Hog
06-02-2005, 07:11 AM
The dedication to the expanded universe of Star Wars material by Lucas has been spotty at best thus far...

See: Boba Fett's origin, Stormtroopers as clones, methodology of creating clones, the Jedi order's bans on relationships, etc... Additionally, the ability of some Jedi to disappear after dying, while others do not. That was supposed to be explained in E3 but was not.

Johnny Footstool
06-02-2005, 09:46 AM
Additionally, the ability of some Jedi to disappear after dying, while others do not. That was supposed to be explained in E3 but was not.

I thought it was.

Qui-Gon Ginn discovered how to do it. He trained Yoda, and Yoda trained Kenobi.

Boss-Hog
06-02-2005, 04:00 PM
I thought it was.

Qui-Gon Ginn discovered how to do it. He trained Yoda, and Yoda trained Kenobi. Yeah, I forgot about that (it was a line in passing toward the ending of the movie). That makes sense.

HotCorner
06-02-2005, 04:56 PM
I believe Anakin did bring balance to the force through his fathering of Luke. Without Luke, Vader would have continued his evil ways along side the Emperor.

Luke was a "conduit" that Anakin/Vader needed to bring balance back.

Raisor
06-02-2005, 06:24 PM
The dedication to the expanded universe of Star Wars material by Lucas has been spotty at best thus far...

See: Boba Fett's origin, Stormtroopers as clones, methodology of creating clones, the Jedi order's bans on relationships, etc...


The only thing in that bunch that's really been contridicted is Boba Fett's origin, though that's been "fixed" by saying there's been more then one guy running around with Mandalorin Armor calling himself "Boba Fett".

Stormtrooper, yes, originally clones, but over time more and more were simply conscripted. As for the cloning process, nothing in the new movies contridict anything in Zahn's novels. No where in the new movies did anyone say that the cloning process in the movies was the ONLY cloning process. As for the Jedi ban on relationships, the fastest way to get new Jedi for the New Jedi Order is to birth them. Luke's trying to rebuild the Order, and knows that's the fastest way.

TC81190
06-02-2005, 07:24 PM
As for the Jedi ban on relationships, the fastest way to get new Jedi for the New Jedi Order is to birth them. Luke's trying to rebuild the Order, and knows that's the fastest way.

:thumbup:

savafan
06-02-2005, 07:39 PM
As for the Jedi ban on relationships, the fastest way to get new Jedi for the New Jedi Order is to birth them. Luke's trying to rebuild the Order, and knows that's the fastest way.

What a great pick-up line. "Hey wanna get together, I need to rebuild the Jedi order."

redsfanmia
06-02-2005, 09:15 PM
How about a movie about early Han Solo and how Chewbacca becamne indebted to him? There are so many stories to tell.

Reds/Flyers Fan
06-02-2005, 10:27 PM
I thought it was.

Qui-Gon Ginn discovered how to do it. He trained Yoda, and Yoda trained Kenobi.

But Qui-Gon didn't disappear when he died.

Why at the end of ROTJ did only Yoda, Anakin and Obi-Wan appear as ghosts? If Qui-Gon discovered how to do this, why wasn't he standing with his two former apprentices during the celebration?

Also, was R2D2's memory erased or just 3PO's? At the end of E3 the order is given to erase the protocol droid's memory, which would apply only to 3PO. If R2 retained memory of the events of E1-E3, why did he never convey them to 3PO?

Why didn't Obi-Wan recognize the droids when he saw them in E4? And Vader never recognized 3PO in E5. He did build him after all.

KronoRed
06-02-2005, 10:33 PM
Because George Lucas made these movies up as he went along ;)

Neither 'A New Hope' or 'Episode IV' were on the beginning scroll when Star Wars first came out.

Only one of those that works is R2D2 realized if 3po knew all of that info he would most likely blab it to everyone since he can NEVER SHUT UP :lol:

Reds/Flyers Fan
06-02-2005, 10:40 PM
Only one of those that works is R2D2 realized if 3po knew all of that info he would most likely blab it to everyone since he can NEVER SHUT UP :lol:

That did occur to me. But since the Dark Side was so powerful and the Emperor could forsee most things, wouldn't he realize how important R2 was/is to the Rebellion? He literally saved the Jedi in each movie.

MWM
06-03-2005, 12:10 AM
I was just watching Empire Strikes Back and was wondering how Yoda changed so much from E1-E3 into what he became in E5. Did he completely lose his powers of the force? What happened to him?

KronoRed
06-03-2005, 12:29 AM
Living in a swamp might take a lot out of you ;)

Caveat Emperor
06-03-2005, 12:50 AM
I was just watching Empire Strikes Back and was wondering how Yoda changed so much from E1-E3 into what he became in E5. Did he completely lose his powers of the force? What happened to him?

Its that awful food he was cooking himself on Dagobah.

Redsfaithful
06-03-2005, 03:23 AM
Living in a swamp might take a lot out of you ;)

I actually think that's a great answer. 20ish years of isolation, horrid living conditions following what he saw as a defeat.

Plus he was a muppet in E5. It's tough for muppets to be badasses.

Raisor
06-03-2005, 06:04 AM
Plus he was a muppet in E5. It's tough for muppets to be badasses.

Tell that to Animal. Animal was hardcore.

As for Yoda, dude was dying, which tends to make people weaker then they were, physically at least.

GIK
06-03-2005, 08:44 AM
Saw it last night. I'll give it a solid B+. Better than the other prequels (obviously), but not as engaging (to me) as IV, V, VI.

Definitely worth an additional viewing, though!

Ravenlord
06-03-2005, 09:09 AM
I actually think that's a great answer. 20ish years of isolation, horrid living conditions following what he saw as a defeat. wouldn't he also have to supress his ability with the force, lest Palpatine discover him? if so, wouldn't it have been the force sustaining him for so long?

Jeremy Piergallini
06-03-2005, 10:37 AM
Question that may have been answered or not.....

I like IV, V, VI better than the new three.
I was pissed when what looked like 2 of the more interesting characters died Qui Gon Jin and Darth Maul.

Here is my question: If there can be only two Sith at a time, does the emperor count as one? If so, Maul would have been the other one. BUT, was Dooku on the scene then or did he become a Sith after Maul.

THis may be a weird opinion. But 7-9 could be made. Maybe luke or Leia has children with the force in them. They both had their fathers blood in them. Therefore it is quite possible for, say, Luke to have two boys, one turns out good, one turns out bad. Far-fetched? Yes. Possibility? Probably not. But it is a thought.

savafan
06-03-2005, 10:43 AM
Here is my question: If there can be only two Sith at a time, does the emperor count as one? If so, Maul would have been the other one. BUT, was Dooku on the scene then or did he become a Sith after Maul.



Yes, Palpatine is the master, Maul was his apprentice. Dooku became apprentice after Maul, and was patsied by Palpatine in order to get Vader.

Jeremy Piergallini
06-03-2005, 11:10 AM
Thanks Sava. Couldn't make the connection of when Dooku came along.

ochre
06-03-2005, 12:10 PM
But Qui-Gon didn't disappear when he died.

Why at the end of ROTJ did only Yoda, Anakin and Obi-Wan appear as ghosts? If Qui-Gon discovered how to do this, why wasn't he standing with his two former apprentices during the celebration?

Also, was R2D2's memory erased or just 3PO's? At the end of E3 the order is given to erase the protocol droid's memory, which would apply only to 3PO. If R2 retained memory of the events of E1-E3, why did he never convey them to 3PO?

Why didn't Obi-Wan recognize the droids when he saw them in E4? And Vader never recognized 3PO in E5. He did build him after all.
You never see Qui-Gon's astral projection. He hadn't fully figured out the process. My guess is that Obi-Wan does. The full process causes the body to disappear and gives the jedi the ability to project back into the real world.

Reds/Flyers Fan
06-03-2005, 12:13 PM
THis may be a weird opinion. But 7-9 could be made. Maybe luke or Leia has children with the force in them. They both had their fathers blood in them. Therefore it is quite possible for, say, Luke to have two boys, one turns out good, one turns out bad. Far-fetched? Yes. Possibility? Probably not. But it is a thought.

There would be plenty of good guys available for any potential 7-9 -- Luke, Leia, Solo, Chewy, Lando, Luke or Leia's kids, the Jedi ghosts -- but the Sith are destroyed. If only two can exist at any one time, and both were killed simultaneously, who could they be? Besides, it would take some of the satisfaction out of ROTJ if it turns out that victory was hollow.

Reds/Flyers Fan
06-03-2005, 12:14 PM
You never see Qui-Gon's astral projection. He hadn't fully figured out the process. My guess is that Obi-Wan does. The full process causes the body to disappear and gives the jedi the ability to project back into the real world.

Aniken figured it out, despite spending more time in life as a Sith than a Jedi.

savafan
06-03-2005, 12:31 PM
The difference is that Qui-Gon had a violent death, while Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin all were prepared to "die".

Redsland
06-03-2005, 02:28 PM
I was just watching Empire Strikes Back and was wondering how Yoda changed so much from E1-E3 into what he became in E5. Did he completely lose his powers of the force? What happened to him?
When 900 years old you are, not so powerful you will be, either.

:)

ochre
06-03-2005, 09:41 PM
Bail Organa formed the Rebel Alliance at the end of III :)

The post episode VI books (Zahn, et al) indicate that Palpatine was pretty effective in his eradication of the jedi. There was an insane jedi clone that Luke discovered on some planet in Zahn's Thrawn trilogy I believe, but no mention of any (other) surviving jedi.
wikipedia has some good star wars stuff. I just found a jedi that survived the purge, only to be struck down by vader before episode IV:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echuu_Shen-Jon

In fact, here is a list of the survivors:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Jedi_Purge#Survivors_of_the_Purge

KronoRed
06-03-2005, 09:43 PM
Wikipedia knows everything..I spend hours there reading :)

Reds/Flyers Fan
06-05-2005, 10:57 PM
In Revenge of the Sith, during the scene with Palpatine and Aniken at that water entertainment game, the senator tells Skywalker about the story of Darth Plagus the Wise. Apparently Darth Plagus was able to cheat death but was eventually done in by his apprentice. Was Palpatine the apprentice of Darth Plagus?

Redsland
06-05-2005, 11:10 PM
That was the implication.

RedsIn07
06-05-2005, 11:16 PM
In Revenge of the Sith, during the scene with Palpatine and Aniken at that water entertainment game, the senator tells Skywalker about the story of Darth Plagus the Wise. Apparently Darth Plagus was able to cheat death but was eventually done in by his apprentice. Was Palpatine the apprentice of Darth Plagus?
Yes, you're correct:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darth_Plagueis

^Gotta love wikipedia

Reds/Flyers Fan
06-05-2005, 11:31 PM
Thanks. Interesting link. :thumbup:

Johnny Footstool
06-06-2005, 12:27 AM
Why didn't Obi-Wan recognize the droids when he saw them in E4?

I don't think he ever said, "I've never seen these droids before." He said, "I don't recall ever owning a droid."

Reds/Flyers Fan
06-06-2005, 12:45 AM
I don't think he ever said, "I've never seen these droids before." He said, "I don't recall ever owning a droid."

But he readily admitted to Luke that he fought in the Clone Wars, so I don't see why he would hide the fact that he knew the two droids and their important, unique stories.

RedsIn07
06-06-2005, 12:56 AM
But he readily admitted to Luke that he fought in the Clone Wars, so I don't see why he would hide the fact that he knew the two droids and their important, unique stories.
I think he was still hiding the truth abouth Luke's father kinda the same way he says:

"A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father."

Both are sorta true but doesn't reveal the truth to Luke..... or its just a plot hole.

savafan
07-08-2005, 11:33 AM
Preview of the new TV show.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2005/20050427l.jpg

KronoRed
07-08-2005, 12:02 PM
Yeah that's what I expect :lol: