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Yachtzee
05-20-2005, 06:36 PM
My wife and I are thinking about buying a new car, so I was wondering if the car buying experts at Redszone might have any tips, particularly when it comes to negotiating a good price. I've bought a few cars before, and while I've never been "taken," I usually leave feeling like I could have done better. So this time, if we decide to purchase, I'd like to see if I can't work to get the best deal possible.

As far as makes/modes, we're probably going to be looking at GM vehicles, mainly because my wife has earned over $2k toward a GM using her credit card.

Thanks for any help.

Johnny Footstool
05-20-2005, 07:10 PM
Some personal tactics that I use whenever I make any major purchase...

-Do your research. Check out every vehicle you're considering buying. Check pricing, check reliability, and check user satisfaction. Go to edmunds.com and consumerreports.org (spend the money on a membership -- you'll make that money back many times over). Talk to other people who own the same model.

-Test drive all the cars you're interested in, preferably on the same day or weekend. It's a lot easier to see the differences in cars when you drive one immediately after driving another. Also, some dealerships may allow you to take the car home for an extended test drive (I'm not kidding -- they let you keep the car for 24 hours). Ask about it.

-Take your time. Don't make a deal on your first trip to the lot. And don't go in with the mindset that you *have* to buy a car that very day. Be patient. Expect to make several trips to the dealer over the course of a couple of weeks. After you look at the car and take your test drive, ask a few questions, then give the dealer your name and number, tell him you're still looking at other dealerships, and leave. Rest assured, he'll call you back with a better deal than the one he offered before.

-When negotiating, be prepared to wait alone in the salesman's office. This happens every time. Again, be patient. And remember -- salesmen have speaker phones/intercoms in their offices, so you're not as alone as you might think. Don't say anything you wouldn't want them to hear.

-Most importantly, feel good about the price you end up paying. If you do your research and remain patient, you will be able to get a good price. Don't beat yourself up if you end up paying $200 over invoice and you think you could have paid $100 over invoice. The "best deal possible" is a great goal, but you can be satisfied with merely a "good deal" if you know that you're getting one.

TeamCasey
05-20-2005, 07:16 PM
First, I'm HORRIBLE at it. Just hate the wheeling dealing part of it. Not in my nature.

I do however go to blue book to estimate the worth of my trade in. If I feel they aren't giving me a fair trade-in, I stand up and say thank you, but "Car dealer X" offered me this for my trade-in. I literally stand up and head for the door.

I also ask them if they give my company a rate. I work for a large company. Some dealerships go for it, some don't.

Steve4192
05-20-2005, 07:18 PM
If you are looking to buy a used car, Johnny gave you some great advice. I'd also advise you to walk away from the car you want and come back the next day. That gives you a chance to reconsider your decision and makes the salesman sweat a little bit. Sales guys hate investing their time and then losing the sale. If you make him sweat for 24 hours, he's more likely to give a little. Also, if you aren't pressed for time, consider shopping at the tail end of the month. Nothing makes a sales guy happier than getting a big commision in under the wire. They often have bonuses based on monthly sales totals and are a little more flexible on the 29th of the month than they are on the 1st.

If you are looking at 'newer' used model, I'd strongly advise looking at the classifieds. There are some fantastic deals out there from folks who bit off more than they could chew when buying new. As an added bonus, if you do get a 'newer' model, the manufacturer warranty will still apply. There's nothing quite so satisfying as finding a 'take over payments' deal after the previous owner has already paid over half the bank note.

If you are looking for a new model, consider buying a Saturn. They have 'set' prices, so you don't have to worry about getting screwed by the dealer. The price is the price and that is that. It's no different than walking into Sears to buy a new fridge. Saturns also are one of the best american cars when it comes to retaining their resale value.

If you are concerned with getting top dollar for your trade in ... don't trade it in. You can almost always get more money on the open market using the classifieds and Wheeler Dealer. However, the tradeoff is you have to deal with the hassles of selling the car yourself.

Johnny Footstool
05-21-2005, 12:24 PM
I'd also advise you to walk away from the car you want and come back the next day. That gives you a chance to reconsider your decision and makes the salesman sweat a little bit. Sales guys hate investing their time and then losing the sale. If you make him sweat for 24 hours, he's more likely to give a little. Also, if you aren't pressed for time, consider shopping at the tail end of the month. Nothing makes a sales guy happier than getting a big commision in under the wire. They often have bonuses based on monthly sales totals and are a little more flexible on the 29th of the month than they are on the 1st.

More great advice!

SunDeck
05-21-2005, 03:18 PM
Personally, I LOVE buying cars. My rules:

1) Never buy new. Okay, you're exempt from that since you want to spend your GM bucks.

2) Know how much you are willing to spend before you go in.

3) Do not tell anyone how much you are willing to spend.

4) Get your financing somewhere other than the dealership.

5) Remember, EVERYTHING is negotiable, from the price of the vehicle to the cost of an extended warranty. Everything. Don't get sucked into thinking you are finished purchasing a car just because you have settled on the price. This is why having your own financing lined up is advantageous; it allows you to negotiate a potentially better deal from the dealer.

6) Don't worry if a deal doesn't work out. GM is producing way more cars than they can sell right now. If your understanding of the real value of the car is correct, you will be able to get that price.

7) Do you have a trade in? Know how much it is really worth. Get the price from kb.com, or edmunds.com.

8) Everything you need to know about every car can be found online.

Falls City Beer
05-21-2005, 04:17 PM
More great advice!

I third this recommendation. Fully. It's never not worked for me.

Caveat Emperor
05-21-2005, 04:50 PM
After you look at the car and take your test drive, ask a few questions, then give the dealer your name and number, tell him you're still looking at other dealerships, and leave. Rest assured, he'll call you back with a better deal than the one he offered before.

This is the best advice I've read.

The key to negotiating anything, from the price of a car to a muti-million dollar contract, is to get people to start bidding against themselves. By letting a dealer know that you are shopping around and not seriously committed to buying from one place, it forces him to start guessing as to what kinds of deals you are being offered at other places and then to start bidding his own price down.

#1. Never tell the dealer what kind of a deal you are getting from another place. Let him guess. If he makes an offer that isn't better than other offers you've been seeing, then simply tell him "That's fine, but I'm confident I can do better someplace else."

#2. Be firm and decisive with the salesman. If you don't immediately like what you are hearing from him, don't waffle or waver. Simply thank him for his time, leave a number, and tell him you'll be in touch. Have your conversations with your wife about "pros and cons" of the deal someplace where the salesman can't hear and doesn't know how much you've been talking about.

#3. Never make a deal immediately after recieving a concession/price reduction from the salesman. Tell him you need time to think it over, even if you're dead certain that it is the deal you want to take. The time you take thinking it over may induce the salesman to continue bidding against himself and offer you an even better deal. If the salesman attempts to force your hand with a "Take it or leave it" offer, tell him that you don't think that's a professional way to conduct business and that you really do need time to think.

Yachtzee
05-21-2005, 05:59 PM
Thanks for the advice everyone. Very helpful! I've used the "I need some time to think it over" trick before, and that is usually good for some flexibility on the price. And I told my wife to make sure we say NOTHING about the money we have coming on the GM card before we have an agreed upon price. (The brochure from the bank/GM themselves says to get the price set before discussing the rewards points). I checked out Consumer Reports too. I never realized how much car dealers get in factory-to-dealer incentives and other deals. Has anyone purchased that "New car buyer's kit" they offer? It looks pretty interesting at $40.

Here's a question...I've heard it suggested that one should gather some quotes from online car websites, print them out, stash them in a folder and take the folder with you to the dealership. Does it really help to be so brazen about that kind of thing, or does it really tick them off? Then again, do I really want to buy a car from someone who would be ticked off by that? I think I answered my own question.

As far as GM goes, I've heard that Buick and Pontiac are possible facing the chopping block. I'm wondering if that's a possible sign for possible good deals, or a sign from the market that there is something wrong with Buicks and Pontiacs. I've never been a fan of Buicks, just because the ride is a bit too "soft" for me, but the Rendevous might be interesting. On the other hand, my first car was a 1980 Pontiac Grand Prix, which I loved, so I have kind of a soft spot for them. However, I've heard that their quality hasn't been great in the past.

Thanks again for the advice. It's great!

WVRedsFan
05-22-2005, 05:00 PM
Thanks for the advice everyone. Very helpful! I've used the "I need some time to think it over" trick before, and that is usually good for some flexibility on the price. And I told my wife to make sure we say NOTHING about the money we have coming on the GM card before we have an agreed upon price. (The brochure from the bank/GM themselves says to get the price set before discussing the rewards points). I checked out Consumer Reports too. I never realized how much car dealers get in factory-to-dealer incentives and other deals. Has anyone purchased that "New car buyer's kit" they offer? It looks pretty interesting at $40.

Here's a question...I've heard it suggested that one should gather some quotes from online car websites, print them out, stash them in a folder and take the folder with you to the dealership. Does it really help to be so brazen about that kind of thing, or does it really tick them off? Then again, do I really want to buy a car from someone who would be ticked off by that? I think I answered my own question.

As far as GM goes, I've heard that Buick and Pontiac are possible facing the chopping block. I'm wondering if that's a possible sign for possible good deals, or a sign from the market that there is something wrong with Buicks and Pontiacs. I've never been a fan of Buicks, just because the ride is a bit too "soft" for me, but the Rendevous might be interesting. On the other hand, my first car was a 1980 Pontiac Grand Prix, which I loved, so I have kind of a soft spot for them. However, I've heard that their quality hasn't been great in the past.

Thanks again for the advice. It's great!

The "buzz" I get from reading on the auto industry is that either Buick or Pontiac will be gone soon. GM apparently is in big trouble because of pension and health care debts. They're trying to cut costs everywhere and this was one of the things they are considering. You might want to consider that when choosing what you buy. I bought an Oldsmobile Intrigue in 2000. When Olds folded, the resale value of my Intrigue dropped nearly $5,000. When it bit the dust in 2003, I was faced with that much reverse equity in it.

LoganBuck
05-22-2005, 09:26 PM
I have a few more tips.

-If you want to save a little cash and not take the big depreciation hit. Buy a just off lease vehicle or "program car". Dealers have the ability to bid on these cars and they typically have all records low milage and detailed inspections. Some of these are less than a year old. My current vehicles are off lease vehicles and I have been very happy. Also the dealer doesn't have as much "slime room" because he has kept you abreast of the price to be the top bidder in the auction, you will often only pay a predetermined fee for paperwork, some service to the vehicle, destination fees, and some profit (they don't work for free).

-Do some checking around on the internet at places like autotrader.com. Use these as a baseline price, or maximum price that you should be able to beat. It is often difficult to know what is a good price, but you must beat advertised prices.

-Look and ask for incentives or warranty extensions as deal breakers. They can and will throw these in. I once got a warranty extension, and 4 Reds tickets, and a car emergency kit. Total value $625.

-Don't worry about fuel economy numbers so much. Those numbers are not actual. They are determined by using math and "standard" operating peramiters. Actual mileage is determined by vehicle weight including passengers, terrain, weather, tire inflation, etc. Obviously a Ford Excursion will get worse gas mileage than a Honda Civic, but don't sweat any difference under 4 mpg.

Roy Tucker
05-23-2005, 09:28 AM
All of the above is great advice and I second/third/fourth it. A couple other things:

- Never trade in a car. Sell it yourself. It's not that hard and I guarantee you'll get a *much* better return.
- Don't tell them about the GM discount till you've negotiated a price you want.
- Be prepared to walk away and not buy a car now. I've wanted a new car, did all my research, decided on a fair price, didn't get it from any of the dealers, and ended up just not buying the car and postponing it all.
- I've bought the CR new buyers kit for the car I wanted (not for 2 or 3 cars I was looking at, just the one I wanted). I think it was worth it but I'd have to go back and look at the information.

15fan
05-23-2005, 10:24 AM
edmunds.com

edmunds.com

edmunds.com

i've bought 3 cars in the last 5 years. edmunds is the gospel. read everything you can on that site.

go to the dealers and test drive any car you are considering. do not go in to see what kind of deal they can make you. you are there to do research, do a test drive, and that is it. once you've done the test drive, thank the salesperson and be on your way.

after you've done your research & test driving, it's time to use the power of technology in your favor.

email as many dealers as possible indicating that you are interested in a new car, and that one of the cars that you are considering is their ____________. give them the details of what you're interested in (model, colors, options, etc), and ask them to give you their best price. in their pricing, they should itemize any cost or fee, including tax, tag & title, so that you get a true price of what it will cost you to drive off the lot.

never ever ever tell the dealer what you would pay for the car. nor do you ever want to tell them what kind of monthly payment you want. you are just interested in their best price to drive the car off the lot. if they can make you the best deal, you'll be happy to go in and sign papers. until then, negotiating via email (and i'd set up a yahoo or hotmail account instead of using your regular account) is the best way for them to communicate with you.

as dealers start to email you with prices, you can use one dealer against another. let the other dealers know what the best offer on the table is, and ask if they can beat it. this is the part of the process that i personally like the most. make the sons-of-guns squirm and work and scrach and claw to get your business. if you're feeling ballsy, play a little poker. if someone bites, fine. if not, no real harm. you can go back to the next best deal and let them know that what appeared to be the best deal really wasn't.

once you have an offer that no one else can touch, then it's time to talk about financing. at this point, you've already talked to several financial institutions and have their best interest rates or lease terms. now that the dealer has committed to a price, put your best financing option on the table. if they can beat that, they can do the financing. if not, you're more than happy to go with your own financing.

having agreed via email on a car, price, and financing terms, then it's time to set a time to sign the papers & pick up the car. when you set the appointment, let the dealer know that you don't want to be paraded around in front of all of the employees and potential customers as someone who is buying a new car. you're there to sign the papers, get your car, and then continue on with your daily life. no clapping or cheering is necessary.

when you go, take copies of the emails with the agreed upon terms. review each document to make sure that the numbers & terms on the documents are what they should be. if they aren't, speak up before you sign anything. take a calculator with you. if you aren't comfortable with numbers, take someone who is. have that person (spouse/friend/relative/neighbor) stay with you while you sign the papers. if you're dropped off at the dealer, you're on your own & stuck there without a ride. if you have someone else there, it makes it more difficult for the dealer to try any last minute games.

don't worry about hurting anyone's feeling at the dealership. they're out there to make as much money as they can, and they'll take every opportunity they can to stick you. there are also a lot of folks involved in the transaction from the dealer side, so there's also a lot of room for things to get inadvertantly messed up. you're not there to make friends. you're there to get the best deal on the car that you want. it's purely a business transaction.

finally, remember that after you drive off the lot with your new car, the dealer still has obligations that they must fulfill. we got mrs. fan an '05 honda pilot back in mid-april. a series of gaffes at the dealer means that we still don't have the permanent tags for the car. lots of people at the dealer are getting lots of polite phone calls from yours truly.

remember that you as the buyer have the ultimate leverage. no one is going to put a gun to your head. no deal is final until you sign that it is final.

Yachtzee
04-28-2006, 10:53 AM
I just wanted to update this and thank everyone for their great advice. It's really come in handy. We were able to stretch out the use of her Cavalier a bit longer, but now it has come to the point where it has started leaking fluids in our garage. So we'll probably close a deal on a car this weekend.

We followed the great advice everyone posted here and it seems like we've got a couple of good deals on the table. We researched cars using edmunds.com, kbb.com, and consumerreports.org, then test drove a few different vehicles to see which one my wife liked the best. Then we requested quotes online. It seems like most of the GM dealers around here just automatically give you invoice as your starting price as an internet customer. We also talked to one of my wife's friends at work, who said her husband can hook us up with GM's "In the Driveway" program. We haven't yet heard back on that though, because her husband forgot his PIN. So then we went back to the dealer we talked to before. The salesperson said that "In the Driveway" is invoice pricing, so it looks like it's about the same either way. In any case, they're willing to match. On top of that, we can get the rebates and other incentives to lower the price a bit. The best part is that we haven't said anything about the points my wife has on her GM card, which should drop the price further another $1000-2000.

It looks like my wife is going for a Pontiac G6 GT. Does anyone have one of these out there? I kind of interested to hear what you think of the automatic /"tap shift" manual transmission. After the discussions of manual v. automatic, I thought maybe the answer might be both. :cool:

Johnny Footstool
04-28-2006, 11:21 AM
Does anyone have one of these out there? I kind of interested to hear what you think of the automatic /"tap shift" manual transmission. After the discussions of manual v. automatic, I thought maybe the answer might be both.

If it's like the one in my car, it's basically an automatic. Remember how auto transmissions used to have "P R N D 2 1" settings? Now, instead of having actual numbered settings for the lower gears, you have a tap-shifter that lets you cycle through the gears by pressing up and down. I was excited when I first got mine, but I've had my car for 6 months now and I rarely use the tap shifter.

Sounds like you're getting a good deal on the G6. You've done all the work you can do, so you should be very happy with the price you get.

I would remind you to take SunDeck's advice and try to get financing somewhere other than the dealership. If your employer has a credit union for employees, that's the best place to start.

I bought a 2005 Nissan Maxima in September, and they gave me a choice between 3% financing or $1000 cash back with 5% financing. My wife's credit union offered a 3.5% financing rate. We did the math, and taking the 3.5% financing rate and $1000 cash back ended up saving us about $300 over the course of a 48-month loan.

Find an auto loan calculator that compares rebates vs. low interest rates. Here's a pretty good one, but there are better ones out there that calculate the total cash you'll be paying over the life of the loan:
http://www.bankrate.com/brm/calc/rebatecalc.asp

flyer85
04-28-2006, 12:11 PM
Do your research. Edmunds.com is not a bad place to start. Get prices from multiple dealers. Most dealerships have an internet sales department and you can get quotes via e-mail. If you want to avoid the haggling over price game you can negotiate a deal entirely electronically. If you belong to a club like Sams or Costco they often will have prearranged pricing with dealers in your area.

Then go to lot, test drive some cars and find what you want.

Yachtzee
04-28-2006, 12:26 PM
One interesting tactic I was able to put to good use...

The Pontiac website lets you locate vehicles at local dealers. It will actually let you view what each dealer has on hand, including VINs for each car, and will let you generate a sticker for that car. You can then open up a tab or another browser window to edmunds.com or kbb.com and use that to find invoice for each car. So if the dealer tells you they'll offer you invoice on any car, without telling you what invoice is, you will already what it is when you step on the lot.

I also liked how edmunds.com will show you the average price being paid by others for a particular car in your area. That is a nice feature.

macro
04-28-2006, 12:49 PM
Yachtzee, be sure to read this site before you go shopping!

http://www.carbuyingtips.com/

gonelong
04-28-2006, 01:42 PM
I can get a FORD discount through my Father in Law (X Plan) ... does anyone know if you can generally do much better than that if you haggle, or if you can work down the price from there?

Thanks,

GL

Heath
04-28-2006, 02:08 PM
I'm very very very fortunate to live in a smaller town where a local car repair guy sells low mileage, clean, late model used cars. I literally once went in and he had what I was looking for...at about 40-60% less than our local dealer for the same car. (brand, model, paint color, interior, same radio, A/C, etc)

I never buy new I guess. That's always my motto. Why spend for new when 10 minutes after I drive it, it drops 30% or more?

westofyou
04-28-2006, 02:10 PM
I'm holding out

http://www.explorevt.net/blog/images/gmjetson.jpg

smith288
04-28-2006, 02:53 PM
Pre finance. You hold all the cards when they dont have a clue what you can afford.

I did so and after getting in my car when the dealer didnt want to deal... The dealer chased my car down and said "he talked it over with his boss and ok'd it". I got me a nice 2002 Explorer for cheap. They just arent used to a person not feeling obliged to their whims rather than you being the one who they should be bending over backwards for.

Also, know that when you buy used, they dont make the money off the profit of the car. That isnt their primary goal (it is a goal however). They get bonuses from their parent (ford, gm) if they sell a certain number of used models per month. Tell them they need that car off the lot alot more than you need it in your driveway. When they hear that, they know you aren't a fool and know how they play their game. THey usually alter their stance in terms of prices and stuff.

I like to say "I have no problems leaving here with the car I brought and finding another dealership who will work for me and not the other way around."

Yachtzee
04-28-2006, 03:25 PM
One thing I've noticed. In this day of internet buying, car dealers are offering all kinds of perks to get you to come down and try out their car. I found a car online that had the options my wife wanted and I called the dealer. Not only did they offer a nice deal, comparable to what the others are offering, but since my wife can't come down to take a test drive today, they let me come down and pick it up to use overnight, just to try it out, no pressure to buy.

GAC
04-28-2006, 06:58 PM
I listened to an ex-car salesman on WLW about 10 years ago who had a tape series out on the "tricks of the trade" of buying a car, and how to do it right.

It upset alot of his fellow car salesmen.

Know the make and model you're interested in and shop and compare the sticker price (knowing the blue book value first). That tells you what you have to work with.

Knowing when their sales quarter ends, and going in on the last day or so, can also help you out.

Right now, and due to their dire financial situation, the Big 3 are practically giving them away. Which is good for the consumer right now.

We're going out this summer and get us a new vehicle.... but I work at Honda, so we already know what we're looking at - the Honda Pilot. ;)

http://www.prelude-fan.de/pics/pilot_4.jpg

jmcclain19
04-29-2006, 01:55 AM
4) Get your financing somewhere other than the dealership.


Can't emphasize this point enough.

I did mine online, I had a few offers I mulled over from eloan.com and capitalone.com that I solicited online, took the best offer and went shopping. You have no obligation to tell them how much you can afford. Don't do it. If you tell them "I am pre-approved for $25k" you can bet your tail they will do everything in their power to run you up to $24,999.99

Also make sure to check the net for prices at the particular dealership that you are planning on looking at. I just bought a Nissan Maxima. When I went to the dealer, I test drove the Maxima I wanted, then while we were in negotiations, I stepped out for a momement, called my wife who got on the net, and she saw the exact car I was driving for $5k less that the point we were at currently as an "internet" special than what the advertised price on the car was. This was something they did not mention to me at any point during the talks, so I walked back in and insisted on that price, which I got.

And make sure to negotiate the price of your trade in as a seperate entity. Know how much it is worth (kbb.com) and stick only to the talk of trading in your car, don't let the trade in and new car discussions bleed together, because things will get lost in the mix.

Dealers will try to recoup what they aren't making on one portion of the sale somewhere else.

I bought a Nissan, where the sales guy was telling me that a lightning bolt wouldn't ever let that engine break down, and yet just 2 hours later I'm in a finance office where the woman finalizing the details is giving me horror stories about how my bumper was going to fall off the moment the warranty ended and I just had to get that extended warranty and LoJack. Quite a humorous 180.

Go prepared - have fun and report back.

jmcclain19
04-29-2006, 01:59 AM
Does anyone have one of these out there? I kind of interested to hear what you think of the automatic /"tap shift" manual transmission. After the discussions of manual v. automatic, I thought maybe the answer might be both.

My last Acura RSX had that in it. It's amusing, and I was excited because I loved driving a stick so I thought it was a cooler alternative that my wife could drive, but honestly after the first few weeks I never used it - more a novelty than anything else. It's quite jumpy at first, not shifting means your timing is off going from one gear to the other, and it's always "UP" to go down a gear and "Down" to go up a gear, which takes some getting used to. You'll shift down then up and hear the roar of a high winding engine many times until you get the hang of it. If you have a real sports car (Porsche etc) it might be worth it, but for the conventional autos that most of us buy, it's just an extra you may not use often.

GAC
04-29-2006, 06:27 AM
Negotiate the price of the car you're interested in, and your trade in value AS SEPARATE DEALS.

Once your know what the true value of the car you're buying is - negotiate them down to their bottomline. Then when that is done, move on to what they will give you as a trade in on your car.

You will make out better.

Allowing the two to be inter-mixed is a bad idea, and you usually end up getting the short end of the deal.

Yeah, sure, they may give your more on your car on trade in. But if they are getting more for the car you're looking at, and not coming down much (when they can), then you're losing out. It's a mirage. ;)

RedsBaron
04-29-2006, 07:26 AM
I can get a FORD discount through my Father in Law (X Plan) ... does anyone know if you can generally do much better than that if you haggle, or if you can work down the price from there?

Thanks,

GL
If you are fortunate enough to have a vendor's discount through one manufacturer, such as Ford's X Plan or GM's similar plan, or maybe just have a GM card credit, yet you are interested in a vehicle from another manufacturer, it might be worth a shot to, say, tell your local Chevy dealer that you like the Chevrolet Impala but you can buy a Ford 500 through Ford's X Plan. Several years ago I was having a casual conversation with the owner of a local Ford dealership about one of his cars. I mentioned that I would probably end up buying a GM vehicle because my law firm does some work for GM and I therefore can get the GM vendor discount. Without missing a beat the owner said he could sell me a car through Ford's X Plan for its vendors, even though neither my firm nor I did any work at all for Ford ( I had even twice previously sued that local Ford dealership!).

creek14
04-29-2006, 07:45 AM
I can get a FORD discount through my Father in Law (X Plan) ... does anyone know if you can generally do much better than that if you haggle, or if you can work down the price from there?

Thanks,

GL
We have the GM plan in our family. Both of the creekmobiles and my sister's car were much cheaper using the plan than they would have been otherwise.

I don't know if it's the same with Ford, but with GM the discount differs according to model. So you really need to do some research to know which option is best for you.

Yachtzee
04-29-2006, 07:58 AM
Get financing from other sources?

- Check! We already have a quote we received through USAA. However, GM is offering a financing incentive, so if we qualify for that (I don't see why we shouldn't) we might go with that. We'd have to give up a rebate, but the rebate is only $750 or so. The only reason why we might go with the rebate is that we already have child #2 on the way. If child #3 comes along in a year or two, we may need to trade in before we've realized the savings from a better interest rate.


Negotiate the trade-in separately?

- Check. We already have a price quote. It includes neither Trade-in, GM points from my wife's GM card, nor down payment. I already know the trade in value from kbb.com and edmunds.com. A 98 Cavalier with 142,000 miles that has been hit by a deer isn't going to get much, but we'll see. ;)

Once again, thanks for all the advice. It's been a real help.

SunDeck
04-29-2006, 08:20 AM
I LOVE buying cars. My wife hates it.
First of all, I don't buy new cars. Best deals of all are the gazillions of vehicles that are part of the manufacturer buy back programs that exist with the rental companies. I bought 2005 Chrysler T&C last year for $8,000 less than MSRP.

But, sounds like you are going to buy new since you have credit towards GM. In that case, my advice would be the following:

1) Know what your max price is and don't go above it.
2) Settle on the price of the vehicle before you talk about your trade in. And know what your minimum price is and don't go below it. Better yet, sell your own vehicle yourself.
3) Walk out if you don't get what you want (as long as your research tells you that you are being reasonable).
4) Arrange financing outside the dealership. I ended up with dealer financing on our van, but they had to match the bank rate I had received ahead of time.
5) Don't buy a long term maintenance contract. The likelihood that you will need it probably will not outweigh the costs.
6) Don't forget, they are trying to make money at every stop during the purchase. Add ons, agreements, extra floor mats (why not just go to autozone, yourself?), everything. Just keep saying, "No, thanks."
7) Do your research. It's tough not to get outfoxed at the dealership. They know what they are selling and if they are any good, they know how to sell it. Part of their advantage is that they do this everyday and you do it, what, once every five years? Get on the internet, look at Edmunds.com and all those other sites to know your product the best you can.
8) Be nice. I think a lot of people think car dealers are just slime bags. The truth is, they DO have to make money from your transaction, so there is no reason for you to expect them to give you an unreasonably good deal. And I do better playing the happy but very well informed consumer than I do the crass, hardened negotiator. In a way, I think it is best just to establish with them right up front that you are a reasonable, well informed, no nonesense consumer who will buy on your terms. No need to act like a crank about it.
9) Shop around. Use the prices you get at one dealer against another. Be honest about it, because chances are they know what's out there and what other dealers are offering. If they didn't, they would not be in business long.
10) If you are shopping with your spouse, make sure that both of you know what you are doing. My wife and I establish our highest price before we go into the dealership. That way, no matter who the dealer latches onto, we know where we are going.

Yachtzee
04-29-2006, 10:42 PM
Alright. We bought the G6 GT in Granite Metallic. My wife is happy. We did find out that we had a little extra bonus. When we looked at the website for my wife's GM card, it looked like we would only be able to use $1000 worth of her points towards a G6. However, since she's had her card for 8 years, it was grandfathered in with the old rules, so we were able to use her full amount of points toward the car. It saved us about $3000 of the price of the car.

bucksfan
05-01-2006, 12:34 PM
We're going out this summer and get us a new vehicle.... but I work at Honda, so we already know what we're looking at - the Honda Pilot. ;)

http://www.prelude-fan.de/pics/pilot_4.jpg

Those are very nice vehicles. We bought a 2005. Our only negative is that we have to balance out the airflow through the care when we have the windows down otherwise we get an incredibly nauseating headache-inducing reverberation when we have just one window down. I guess this is not an completely abnormal occurence, but in all my vehicles I have ever had, it has never happened before. We are "at least 1 window down" people by and large, and it is a little more than annoying. Otherwise it is a very very nice vehicle 0- incredible ride/handling/etc. You don't make them in Marysville, do you GAC?

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
05-01-2006, 01:27 PM
i sold cars new and used for three years and there is no used car bonus from the manufacturer for selling a certain number of used units, however that is how it works on new cars a lot of times. Getting the best deal is a very easy process. First there is a number of dealerships close to your home. Pick the brand make and model you like. For example the Honda Pilot. Find three honda dealerships close to your home, test drive the vehicle at all three and sit down and negotiate with the sales person. Get the final price from all three dealerships, take the lowest of the three to the closets dealership to your home and tell them that if they beat that number you'll buy it from them right now. Most stores are not going to quote you below invoice and all dealers have whAT is called hold back which is an amount that they get from honda to pay for overhead, most stores will give away a chunk of this money to earn your business"right now". If they won't beat the number by five hundred, you can always leave or keep grinding away as long as you dont go higher than the best deal you were quoted. If you feel uncomfortable at any time leave, remember every dealership pays the same amount for these cars, so they are all able to sell them for the same price. If you want to go even easier go to some dealership web sites and get an internet quote they are usually pretty low then call around and see if anyone will give you a better deal. The most important thing to remember that all dealershipsand salesmen want to do is sell you a car thats the only qway they get paid, so unless they are going to truly lose money on a deal they wont let you leave, if they let you leave maybe your offer is unreasonable. Part of getting a good deal is knowing when you got one.

Johnny Footstool
05-01-2006, 03:51 PM
Watch out for documentation fees, too. They tack those on at the end, usually after the price quote.

GAC
05-01-2006, 08:39 PM
Seinfeld episode where he was buying a car...

Putty: state tax, sales tax, excise tax, oversize tax, finder's fee

Seinfeld: Finder's fee?? It on the lot!

Putty: Yeah, that's right.

:lol:

Caveat Emperor
05-02-2006, 01:27 AM
I LOVE buying cars. My wife hates it.
First of all, I don't buy new cars. Best deals of all are the gazillions of vehicles that are part of the manufacturer buy back programs that exist with the rental companies. I bought 2005 Chrysler T&C last year for $8,000 less than MSRP.

I think it was comedian Patrice O'Neal that once said "Shopping for a used rental car is like going to the strip club looking for a wife. Anything that's been driven that hard and by that many people can't possibly be worth owning"

REDREAD
05-02-2006, 07:09 AM
Go to: http://www.gm.com/ .. click on shop by model.

It will redirect you to gmbuypower.com (or something like that).
There's a way to search for a particular car, and then locate all the dealers in your area that have it. You can then request a quote from every dealer for the car you want. You can create an account there or have them email the quote.

When I did it, about 3/4 of the dealers just send you sticker price back (or close to it), but there's some dealers that want to move volume and will give it to you for invoice.

Another tactic is to go into the dealership and say your buddy got a <whatever car you're looking for> at $50 over invoice, and would you match that deal for you. They'll probably say yes, if you come across as a serious guy ready to buy.

Obviously, invoice price doesn't mean as much as it used to, they play games with the numbers now. Some people can get a car for a couple hundred under invoice.

Lastly, if you can wait until August, that's sometimes the best time to buy, as GM starts the rebates then. Selection is more limited then, however. If you wait too long into the rebate season, all that will be left are cars with an excessive amount of options, so you don't get that good of a deal.

REDREAD
05-02-2006, 07:18 AM
I just wanted to update this and thank everyone for their great advice. It's really come in handy. We were able to stretch out the use of her Cavalier a bit longer, but now it has come to the point where it has started leaking fluids in our garage. So we'll probably close a deal on a car this weekend.


Is it leaking transmission fluid (check the level there, obviously while the car it running). This is often just a $100 fix. I don't know how old the car is, but there's a seal that vibrates and with age, starts to leak a little bit. Don't assume it's time to throw the car away. I've had this happen on a cavalier (really the only thing that went wrong with it).

Anyhow, might be worth a diagnostic charge, unless you're just dying to buy a new car.

Yachtzee
05-02-2006, 10:54 AM
Is it leaking transmission fluid (check the level there, obviously while the car it running). This is often just a $100 fix. I don't know how old the car is, but there's a seal that vibrates and with age, starts to leak a little bit. Don't assume it's time to throw the car away. I've had this happen on a cavalier (really the only thing that went wrong with it).

Anyhow, might be worth a diagnostic charge, unless you're just dying to buy a new car.

That was just one of the many issues that we had. There was also the fact that the ABS had stopped working years ago, the electrical system had some problem that kept causing the headlights to go out, the AC had a leak that couldn't be repaired for less than $1500,...the list goes on. The electrical problem, the fluid leak and the AC were the most concerning. My wife, who is 6 mos. pregnant, had no desire to spend the summer in a car with no AC, and I had no desire to spend the summer driving to work in a suit and tie in a car with no AC. All in all, we got 142,500 miles out of it, which is pretty good for a Cavalier. It had been through a lot. It was even hit by a deer.

Caseyfan21
12-10-2006, 11:44 PM
I just wanted to top this since it seemed to be the most relevant thread when I was searching. I am a college student who will be looking for a car come March when I get a co-op away from home. I am looking for a car that gets good gas mileage yet is also stylish. I think my favorite now is a Honda Civic since everything I have read says they are a good buy as used cars. I will probably be looking to spend around $10,000 (less if possible). Most of what I have been shopping is pointing towards a 2000-01 based on price.

Does anyone have any suggestions specific to shopping for used cars? I see a lot of great advice about new cars. Is the negotiation much the same for used cars as new cars? I would assume a lot of the tactics are harder to use since the same car usually isn't at two places. I plan on looking at classifieds, dealers, etc. and I also plan to get the car inspected at a trusted local mechanic before making any purchase.

Also, I will have funds lined up to buy the car so I don't have to worry about financing or anything like that. Does anyone have any other advice concerning used cars?

jmcclain19
12-11-2006, 12:57 AM
I just wanted to top this since it seemed to be the most relevant thread when I was searching. I am a college student who will be looking for a car come March when I get a co-op away from home. I am looking for a car that gets good gas mileage yet is also stylish. I think my favorite now is a Honda Civic since everything I have read says they are a good buy as used cars. I will probably be looking to spend around $10,000 (less if possible). Most of what I have been shopping is pointing towards a 2000-01 based on price.

Does anyone have any suggestions specific to shopping for used cars? I see a lot of great advice about new cars. Is the negotiation much the same for used cars as new cars? I would assume a lot of the tactics are harder to use since the same car usually isn't at two places. I plan on looking at classifieds, dealers, etc. and I also plan to get the car inspected at a trusted local mechanic before making any purchase.

Also, I will have funds lined up to buy the car so I don't have to worry about financing or anything like that. Does anyone have any other advice concerning used cars?

Go during the middle of the week to a used car lot. During the weekend, they are typically swamped and aren't as willing to cut you a deal. During the week, you may be their only shot all night to make some money, so they are way more lienent.

Also - know exactly what the MSRP is on the car you plan to look at - and what the Kelly Blue Book values are. Go in with a plan. Also make sure you check the net out before you go in - a lot of times dealers have lower prices listed online than the tag on the car, and if you don't ask for it, they certainly aren't going to offer.

And Civic's are excellent cars. I would 100&#37; recommend one. My wife has a 2000 Civic she bought four years ago. Gets excellent gas milage, and we really have had zero problems with it. Outside of the damage from an accident she got in when T-boned last year - we've only changed out tires, oil, batteries & the windshield in four years. I've made the offer a few times that we could get a new Nissan Murano or a Honda CRV, something new and bigger, but she won't budge on that car. The only trade in she wants in a new Civic. We even went as so far to take it in earlier this summer to the Honda dealership, and they offered us 7000 for it for trade in. Imagine that - we got it for 9000 four years ago and in four years the value went down 2 grand. Quite impressive.

It's not the zippiest thing in the world, but you can't beat the realiability, the gas mileage. They are a little bit higher priced than most American cars of that size & and year for a huge reason.

Ltlabner
12-11-2006, 07:11 AM
Also - know exactly what the MSRP is on the car you plan to look at - and what the Kelly Blue Book values are. Go in with a plan. Also make sure you check the net out before you go in - a lot of times dealers have lower prices listed online than the tag on the car, and if you don't ask for it, they certainly aren't going to offer.

Very good advice.

Nearly every dealership has good used cars. I prefer to find my used cars at an established dealers lot instead of classified or independant lots. Perhaps you can get a better deal at a "buy here-pay here place" but when the headaches happen, can you trust them to take care of the problems? An established dealer is likely going to be in business, will have a service department and will be there to take care of any problems you have.

I'd also reccomend you write down all of those numbers and have them in front of you. It's easy to forget things once all the numbers start flying during negotiations. I even took a calculator in with me on my last purchase and made the sales guy wait while I played with numbers on each and every offer. (in addition to evaluating the offer it made him very impatient to get the deal done).

Having a "game plan" is key. Have a budget for total amount, monthly amount and so forth....AND STICK TO IT. Prepare yourself to say "no thanks" if the deal isn't right. There are other cars available besides the "dream car" you might have just found. The saleman will try to use the "it's a one of a kind because it's used" argument against you. The simple responce is "I passed 6 used car lots on the way to yours. I'm sure there are other suitable cars there. Now, about that last offer......"

Once you find a car you might be interested in spend some time on the internet looking for reviews, etc. See if there are any forums about that specific car and if so, see what the common complaints are. There will always be complaints about any car, but you have to see if they are just nagging issues or serrious problems. I'd also reccomend doing a CarFax report. They aren't perfect but they can uncover if the car was in an accident, flooded, bad title, etc. It's worth the $25.

Consider extended warrenties but evaluate the costs. Sometimes they can very costly and other less expensive options exist.

Good luck. I've grown to like negotiating for cars. It's a fun game (and sometimes you win a car!).

15fan
12-11-2006, 02:08 PM
Good luck. I've grown to like negotiating for cars. It's a fun game

Amen.

One of my favorite feelings is talking to the dealer who finished #2 in the bidding. The last time I bought my car, I had 3 different people at "The Southeast's Largest Honda Dealer" call me on separate occasions and ask me to list, line by line, what I was being charged by the dealer who was getting my business.

Having verified the numbers several times, I got this response from each of the 3 people:

"They must be desperate to move cars. We can't touch that price. You've got yourself a heck of a deal."

That sentiment is usually confirmed when executing the financing and insurance details.

BoydsOfSummer
12-11-2006, 03:00 PM
cars.com

beepbeep.com

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
12-11-2006, 04:59 PM
My wife and I are thinking about buying a new car, so I was wondering if the car buying experts at Redszone might have any tips, particularly when it comes to negotiating a good price. I've bought a few cars before, and while I've never been "taken," I usually leave feeling like I could have done better. So this time, if we decide to purchase, I'd like to see if I can't work to get the best deal possible.

As far as makes/modes, we're probably going to be looking at GM vehicles, mainly because my wife has earned over $2k toward a GM using her credit card.

Thanks for any help.

I was in car sales before i went into the investment biz so I think I can help. First figure out what you want as far as size, seating storage, ect, and go out and test drive them all. Then I would recomend narrowing them down to a few. One of the most overlooked steps from this point is resale value. The average person buys a car every three years so check kbb.com look at the vehicles your interested in and see how the vehicles have depreciated over a three year period. Honda, toyota, and nissan usually hold value better than the rest. This is usually due to large rebates by the other companies. Dont be fooled by the great deal, if gm can take 5000 dollars off of the selling price, How much is the car actually worth, because you can and will lose all of that value when you decide to trade it in. Now on to the wheeling and dealing. Every dealership has the actual invoice on hand and most will sell the car for that price. Go online and find the invoice price, then go to your local lot and tell them that another dealer offered 500 under invoice(you should have this price that you found online on a piece of paper and glance at it while your making your offer, and tell him that you like him and that the location is closer to your home so you'll buy it there if they will match it. Be sure to stick to your guns and the worst that can happen is they will say invoice price is the best they can do. Tell them that your gonna have to think about it and pretend to leave. Chances are they will say hold on a minute and they will go back and talk to the boss again. Take the offer they come back with and you've gotten a great deal. Hope this helps, and sorry about the long post, but since im not in the biz any more, i look back on how easy it is to get a good deal if you know the game.

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
12-11-2006, 05:05 PM
Watch out for documentation fees, too. They tack those on at the end, usually after the price quote.
When I was selling cars I ran into this alot, every dealership charges doc fees. Ours were 100 dollars, this pays the girls upstairs that do all of the paperwork, not in the owners pocket as some may think. We would never waive the doc fees but would do another 100 discount on the car if it meant wed lose the deal.

Yachtzee
12-11-2006, 10:17 PM
I was in car sales before i went into the investment biz so I think I can help. First figure out what you want as far as size, seating storage, ect, and go out and test drive them all. Then I would recomend narrowing them down to a few. One of the most overlooked steps from this point is resale value. The average person buys a car every three years so check kbb.com look at the vehicles your interested in and see how the vehicles have depreciated over a three year period. Honda, toyota, and nissan usually hold value better than the rest. This is usually due to large rebates by the other companies. Dont be fooled by the great deal, if gm can take 5000 dollars off of the selling price, How much is the car actually worth, because you can and will lose all of that value when you decide to trade it in. Now on to the wheeling and dealing. Every dealership has the actual invoice on hand and most will sell the car for that price. Go online and find the invoice price, then go to your local lot and tell them that another dealer offered 500 under invoice(you should have this price that you found online on a piece of paper and glance at it while your making your offer, and tell him that you like him and that the location is closer to your home so you'll buy it there if they will match it. Be sure to stick to your guns and the worst that can happen is they will say invoice price is the best they can do. Tell them that your gonna have to think about it and pretend to leave. Chances are they will say hold on a minute and they will go back and talk to the boss again. Take the offer they come back with and you've gotten a great deal. Hope this helps, and sorry about the long post, but since im not in the biz any more, i look back on how easy it is to get a good deal if you know the game.

Wow, bringing this old post back to the top. It's a good one. OLD RIGHTHANDER II, this is good advice. This is pretty much what my wife and I did when we purchased her Pontiac G6. We made a list of cars she was interested in. Of course there were the ones that everyone says you should buy (Toyota, Honda), a few that we knew we could get a discount on through friendly connections (Ford, Mazda), and ones based on my wife's own past cars (she has owned a lot of Chevrolets). She picked the G6 because it was the one she liked driving the most. We then used the internet to get price quotes. The salesperson at the place we test drove the car started to seem a little flighty (don't know if it was intentional or not, but the price would fluctuate at will and then she would try to get us interested in a car we didn't like), so we decided to go with one of the dealers who gave us an internet quote. We ended up getting exactly the car my wife wanted and felt like we got a good deal.

Another perk using the internet brings is that it gives you the opportunity to compare how different dealers treat you. Some places you just get the feel that they just want to take your money, whereas others look to try to build customer loyalty by dealing with you straight right from the get go. I used to hate buying a car because I felt like I was getting taken. But our last experience, using the advice we got here and on the internet was great.

Johnny Footstool
12-12-2006, 11:20 AM
When I was selling cars I ran into this alot, every dealership charges doc fees. Ours were 100 dollars, this pays the girls upstairs that do all of the paperwork, not in the owners pocket as some may think. We would never waive the doc fees but would do another 100 discount on the car if it meant wed lose the deal.

Good to know.

Last year, I went to two separate Nissan dealers and got similar prices on a Maxima, but one wanted $299 in doc fees while the other only charged $100.

One other tidbit of advice: after you go through all the preparations, do all your homework, and buy the car for a price you are happy with, just enjoy it. Don't worry about whether you could have negotiated for another hundred dollars off. Don't go back out on the internet and check prices again just to make sure you got the best deal ever. If you did your homework, rest assured that you got a great deal.

Chip R
12-12-2006, 11:48 AM
JERRY: Alright, alright. Alright, that’s enough! Let’s get back to my deal. That undercoating, that’s just a rip-off, isn’t it, David?
PUDDY: Oh, we don’t even know what it is.
JERRY: So, I’m gettin’ the insider’s deal?
PUDDY: Insider’s deal. (Holds up his hand) High-five.

oneupper
12-12-2006, 11:59 AM
I know that this is the "american way" of doing it (car buying)...but it is awful. Going to buy a car in America is for me like getting my teeth pulled.

You basically have to go out and try to screw the "dealer/salesman" before he/she screws you. It's unlike anything else you buy in this country.

Everything else, the price and characteristics of the item is a known quantity. You like it, you buy it. You don't...you go elsewhere. If you find a better deal...you can sometimes bring it back. Sure, you may have found something better elsewhere, but if you look well and wait for sales, you do well.

In any case, if you find a great deal, its Walmart, Target, Best Buy or Amazon who's giving it to you, you're not taking it out of some salesperson's pocket.

In car buying, the price is a variable. The price on the tag is A LIE.
How can you compare different products if the price isn't known? Or the same item at different places?

I find the whole ordeal barbaric and disturbing, and I've been putting off a car purchase because I don't want to deal with it.

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
12-12-2006, 12:08 PM
I know that this is the "american way" of doing it (car buying)...but it is awful. Going to buy a car in America is for me like getting my teeth pulled.

You basically have to go out and try to screw the "dealer/salesman" before he/she screws you. It's unlike anything else you buy in this country.

Everything else, the price and characteristics of the item is a known quantity. You like it, you buy it. You don't...you go elsewhere. If you find a better deal...you can sometimes bring it back. Sure, you may have found something better elsewhere, but if you look well and wait for sales, you do well.

In any case, if you find a great deal, its Walmart, Target, Best Buy or Amazon who's giving it to you, you're not taking it out of some salesperson's pocket.

In car buying, the price is a variable. The price on the tag is A LIE.
How can you compare different products if the price isn't known? Or the same item at different places?

I find the whole ordeal barbaric and disturbing, and I've been putting off a car purchase because I don't want to deal with it.
I agree totally, but if you think about it the products you buy at walmart and target also have a mark up on them just as cars do. Atleast on cars, smart consumers have the chance to improve on the MSRP. Trust me, car sales people would love nothing more than to sell the car at MSRP just like all other products, but thats not the case unless you buy a saturn with their no haggle pricing. All the no haggle means is that you pay what they want you to pay, just like Wal mart. Their are just too many manufacturers out their that are always going to be willing to sell their car for whatever it takes to earn you as a customer for life, that the system will never change. Also remember if I a dealership sells you a car and makes no money off of you but makes you happy, chances are that they will make it back through the service department.

bengalsown
12-12-2006, 12:23 PM
Best advice I can give you.

Buy my 2001 Grand Cherokee, V8, fully loaded, 69k, about 24k left on warranty, PM me if interested ;)

15fan
12-12-2006, 01:47 PM
I know that this is the "american way" of doing it (car buying)...but it is awful. Going to buy a car in America is for me like getting my teeth pulled.

You basically have to go out and try to screw the "dealer/salesman" before he/she screws you. It's unlike anything else you buy in this country.

you ever bought a house?

Yachtzee
12-12-2006, 03:36 PM
If you don't like buying a car, imagine having to engage in that kind of negotiation for basic goods. My brother lives in China with his wife. They've actually taken the "healthy" attitude that bargaining for goods actually helps give your brain a workout.

Personally, I find negotiating a salary for a job much more distasteful than bargaining for a car.

Ltlabner
12-12-2006, 04:58 PM
In car buying, the price is a variable. The price on the tag is A LIE. How can you compare different products if the price isn't known? Or the same item at different places?

I find the whole ordeal barbaric and disturbing, and I've been putting off a car purchase because I don't want to deal with it.

Thats funny because I like the idea that with some effort I can influence the price in my favor. At Wallmart the cost of the item is fixed. No room for negotiation. Take it or leave it. But with a car, much like a home, you can actually take steps to save some money.

I know that the car dealership is always making money (as they should) but I like being able to haggle and at least have some small level of controll.

oneupper
12-12-2006, 06:59 PM
you ever bought a house?

Yes. It was less traumatic. Not quite the same deal. Information about comps is readily available. There is negotiation involved, but it's usually limited to the price and the house and always within a range. Much more transparent IMO.

Back to the CAR issue, I guess I left the impression that I don't like the negotiation/haggling. While I admit I don't like it, what bothers me most are the stakes involved.

If Target has a sale to "move" inventory, the difference doesn't come out of the employee's pockets. It's part of a corporate strategy. It may only move the stock in a few months time.

When I walk into a dealership and a salesperson gets me, if I get the good deal, his kids aren't getting toys for Christmas. If he takes me to the cleaners, then he's going to Disney World. So a whole dance starts, with posturing and offering and misleading, etc....because of that. And all the time I have this guy (or lady) in my face, trying to be nice, but obviously scheming about how (or where) they are going to make their commission off me. They start to press, "do this", "you ought that", "this is better", etc..and... And I have to think "why are they offering, this or that...etc."

What happens? I get annoyed and start to leave and decide my old car, which I bought off my brother in law is good enough for another year. I'm ticked off because I'm not driving the car I want to drive (and frankly CAN afford to have), the salesperson is ticked off because they wasted their time (as did I). Then they don't want to let you leave, and that ticks me off even more. So you have to tell them some lie about how you didn't really like the car that much, or you have to ask your wife (bad idea...they'll call your wife) or whatever...to get them off your back.

Sorry for the rant. In the end, it's not fun.

IslandRed
12-12-2006, 07:56 PM
Oneupper, you'd probably be a lot more comfortable at a CarMax -- used cars with no-haggle pricing and a new-car buying experience. From the ones I've researched, I'd say their prices are pretty good; usually less than Blue Book, definitely less than most other places will try and get you to pay. Probably not the best deal you could find if you enthusiastically searched and haggled. But if you want a good (if not the greatest) deal with a minimum of hassle? Can't beat it.

We bought a Honda Odyssey there last summer and it was much more pleasant than for any other prior auto purchase. From now on, I'll buy a used car somewhere else only if they can't get what I want.

Falls City Beer
12-12-2006, 08:01 PM
I know that this is the "american way" of doing it (car buying)...but it is awful. Going to buy a car in America is for me like getting my teeth pulled.

You basically have to go out and try to screw the "dealer/salesman" before he/she screws you. It's unlike anything else you buy in this country.

Everything else, the price and characteristics of the item is a known quantity. You like it, you buy it. You don't...you go elsewhere. If you find a better deal...you can sometimes bring it back. Sure, you may have found something better elsewhere, but if you look well and wait for sales, you do well.

In any case, if you find a great deal, its Walmart, Target, Best Buy or Amazon who's giving it to you, you're not taking it out of some salesperson's pocket.

In car buying, the price is a variable. The price on the tag is A LIE.
How can you compare different products if the price isn't known? Or the same item at different places?

I find the whole ordeal barbaric and disturbing, and I've been putting off a car purchase because I don't want to deal with it.


I actually love haggling. Love it. I always freaking win. I'll spend 4, 5, 6 hours breaking them down. I've never paid more than what I think is a fair price for my car.