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Royals Fan
05-26-2005, 08:13 AM
Here's from The Mlb rumor page this am

Dallas paper is saying the Rangers are in second round of talks with the Reds in regards to Danny Graves.

Paper is sayng the Ranger's might give the Reds's John Hudgins - a 22 years old SP in Triple A. Reds would eat most of the Danny's contract.Cubs and Reds Sox are intersted in Graves. Here's the MLB Rumor Page


Ranger's Number 6 Prospect per Baseball America

Last Nights stats--- John Hudgins TEX 7 3 1 0 1 6, W, CG


www.prosportsdaily.com

Sabo17
05-26-2005, 08:34 AM
I know NOTHING of this guy. We'll take it. Whoever it is, we'll take it!!
HaHa

EKURed
05-26-2005, 09:22 AM
If that is true, what are the Reds waiting on?

Triple A Stats (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=t_ibp&did=milb&cid=238)

KronoRed
05-26-2005, 09:32 AM
He's a pitcher and he's not hurt..make the trade

Krusty
05-26-2005, 09:56 AM
Rangers interested in Graves

Texas discussing trade for banished Cincinnati closer


11:49 PM CDT on Wednesday, May 25, 2005


By EVAN GRANT and TODD WILLS / The Dallas Morning News


ARLINGTON The Rangers keep looking to add to their bullpen, even if it means taking another team's castoff.

The Rangers had a second round of discussions with the Cincinnati Reds on Wednesday about trading for reliever Danny Graves. The closer was designated for assignment Monday after struggling this season and making an obscene gesture to a fan over the weekend.

Rangers assistant general manager Jon Daniels said the club had "kicked the tires" Wednesday but that several other clubs were also interested in Graves. Among them: Boston and the Chicago Cubs.

Even though the Reds are likely to have to eat most of the remaining $4 million of Graves' salary, they'd like to get something in return rather than simply placing him on waivers or releasing him.

Daniels indicated the Rangers would be unwilling to take on the bulk of the salary but would explore trade talks. Last week the Rangers added Steve Karsay after the New York Yankees released him.

The Reds would probably have to settle for a player not on the 40-man roster for Graves. A pitcher such as John Hudgins could be attractive to them. The Rangers, however, are unsure how much they'd be willing to part with for Graves, who has struggled over the last two seasons.

Nix mum on ejection: The latest Ranger to get fired up is center field Laynce Nix, who was ejected in the fifth inning for arguing balls and strikes. Nix was called out twice on strikes, and after the second one in the fifth, he offered a few words and held up two fingers for home plate umpire Paul Emmel. Nix didn't have anything further to say after the game.

"It happens," Nix said. "I've got nothing."

Nix is the first player to be ejected this season. Manager Buck Showalter and third base coach Steve Smith were ejected earlier this season.

Blalock ties Bell's errorless streak: Hank Blalock tied Buddy Bell's 53-game errorless streak at third base, fielding two chances flawlessly, one in the eighth inning and the final one to end the game. Bell is regarded as the best defensive third baseman in Rangers history.

Blalock has 145 total chances since a throwing error in the second inning Sept. 25 vs. Seattle. Bell's streak lasted from June 13 until Aug. 17, 1979.

Briefly: RHP R.A. Dickey has been optioned to Triple-A Oklahoma, where he is expected to join the RedHawks' rotation. Dickey, who has been on the disabled list since April 13 with right triceps inflammation, left Arizona on Wednesday and was expected to meet the team in Memphis on Friday. ... The Rangers used the same batting order for the fourth day in a row Wednesday. It's the first time since May 25-29, 2003, they've used the same lineup four days in a row. They used 33 different lineups in their first 41 games.

E-mail egrant@dallasnews.com or twills@dallasnews.com

LexingtonRedsFan
05-26-2005, 09:57 AM
Sounds like a plan to me....the only holdup that I can even imagine is if the reds are trying to play the other interested teams to see if they can outdo the rangers offer...

Bobcat J
05-26-2005, 10:46 AM
The article doesn't say that the Rangers are willing to give up Hudgins for Graves. The full article is in another thread. It simply says Hudgins is someone the reds would like, but the Rangers aren't sure who they are willing to part with. It seems that the Reds may have asked for Hudgins, but it doesn't mean they are going to get him.

johngalt
05-26-2005, 10:57 AM
It's good to hear there's some interest from a few teams at least. Definitely increases the chances of us getting SOMETHING for Graves, even if we have to eat the bulk of the money still.

Joseph
05-26-2005, 11:07 AM
A 22 YO AAA pitcher who's not injured? Yeah, I'm all over that if I'm Dan O. No waiting, no trying to play off other teams, just calling the Commisioners office and making it happen.

Cedric
05-26-2005, 11:12 AM
Absolutely anything is a positive, we are gonna have to pay that salary no matter what. Graves is the kind of guy that is going to get attention and some gm is gonna try and make a quick bullpen fix with him. I thought the Rangers were a good mix all year, this proves that. Let's hope they pull the trigger with Almanzar and that other pitcher down.

smith288
05-26-2005, 11:16 AM
Too good to be true. Sounds like an early round of bargaining...start high.

I would be really suprised if this guy ends up in a Bats uni.

deltachi8
05-26-2005, 12:08 PM
Looksl like Danny will be traded...howevere, just a thought...Danny said he wants to get a MRI before pitching somewhere else to make sure he is healthy. What happens if the MRI picks something up? I know trades woul dbe off, but would happens to his status with the Reds? Anyone know?

schroomytunes
05-26-2005, 12:26 PM
Take any young arms we can get for him!

Buckeye33
05-26-2005, 12:30 PM
If the Rangers were willing to give up any of these guys, I'd be more than happy with them for Graves:

Gerald Laird - 25 year old catcher

.302/.382/.524 at AAA 7 HR in 33 G

Estaban German - 26 year old IF

.353/.421/.497 at AAA 12 SBs in 41 games

John Hudgins - 23 year old righty

2-2 3.00 ERA at AAA 39 IP 38 H 31/13 K/W

German would clog up 2B even more, but would be a better option off the bench than Bergolla right now.

Laird would be an upgrade over Valentin, and probably even LaRue (at least offensively)

Hudgins gives you a younger arm that could develop into a low end rotation pitcher, or bullpen arm.

registerthis
05-26-2005, 12:48 PM
It's really interesting to read about all of these teams who are suddenly interested in Graves, despite hearing time and again that no one woul dwant him and that's why he wasn't traded.

It looks, instead, that if the Reds were shopping Graves, their asking price was too high.. If you have 3-4 teams in a bidding war over a player that has been DFA'd, surely more coul dhave been had if he had been traded during the offseason?

CTA513
05-26-2005, 12:51 PM
If its true, then I would say do it.

traderumor
05-26-2005, 12:56 PM
It's really interesting to read about all of these teams who are suddenly interested in Graves, despite hearing time and again that no one woul dwant him and that's why he wasn't traded.

It looks, instead, that if the Reds were shopping Graves, their asking price was too high.. If you have 3-4 teams in a bidding war over a player that has been DFA'd, surely more coul dhave been had if he had been traded during the offseason?These teams in the running, esp. the Rangers and Cubs, are simply having to fess up to bullpen problems they should have been able to foresee. Now, it's one man's junk...well in Graves case, is likely to be another man's junk :laugh: but at least he'll be giving up hit after hit to lose games for someone else now.

BillyBeaneFan
05-26-2005, 01:12 PM
Much as I'd love to have any of those three guys, you're talking about primo prospects in the Rangers system, not to mention guys who are almost major league ready. I don't think Graves will bring us anyone like that.

Walkerforpres
05-26-2005, 01:14 PM
Hudgins is an above-average pitching prospect. I owned him in my deep keeper last year before dumping him for Joey Votto, I beleive. :)

Make the trade!

markymark69
05-26-2005, 01:24 PM
Based on Graves' numbers if we can get anything for him I think it will be beneficial. I certainly would take the deal mentioned in the Dallas paper.

puca
05-26-2005, 02:10 PM
I'd be happy with a lower level power arm for Graves. Basically because you won't get a major-league ready power arm for Graves and the Reds have enough stuff-challanged pitchers in their upper levels already.

Well, that or any position player that can be called a prospect.

DeadRedinCT
05-26-2005, 02:24 PM
C'mon John Hart.

Drink. The. Kool-aid.

registerthis
05-26-2005, 02:41 PM
These teams in the running, esp. the Rangers and Cubs, are simply having to fess up to bullpen problems they should have been able to foresee. Now, it's one man's junk...well in Graves case, is likely to be another man's junk :laugh: but at least he'll be giving up hit after hit to lose games for someone else now.
Admittedly, he's one of the few players I'm hoping gets traded to a divisional opponent.

cumberlandreds
05-26-2005, 03:08 PM
Hey, I would take just a decent minor league batboy for him. ;)

Aronchis
05-26-2005, 03:09 PM
I would take a 19 year old rookie ball arm for him.

guttle11
05-26-2005, 03:30 PM
id take a box of batting practice balls for graves, replenish the stock he gave up.

Redmachine2003
05-26-2005, 08:52 PM
How about improving the Trade to Graves, Claussen, Coffey and 4 mil. for John Hudgins, Kinsler, and another prospect?

Patrick Bateman
05-26-2005, 08:58 PM
I don't like that trade too much. I think we need to keep guys like Claussen and Coffey to see how they pan out. We are not desperate for a SS now with the emergence of Lopez.

Redmachine2003
05-26-2005, 09:32 PM
I don't like that trade too much. I think we need to keep guys like Claussen and Coffey to see how they pan out. We are not desperate for a SS now with the emergence of Lopez.
I think with Lopez and Kinlser you would have two guys who could play any of the infeild positions. I was thinking more along the lines of EE, Lopez, and Kinlser at 3rd, SS, and 2nd. Claussen does not impress me with his 88 mph fastball that doesn't sink. Coffey is only throwing around 91-92 mph not the 97 he was said to have. Graves is gone for nothing anyways and if we can get two prospects with higher up sides than Claussen and Coffey and another 19 year prospect in single A ball, I am all for it.

Patrick Bateman
05-26-2005, 09:45 PM
Claussen isn't pitching too badly right now and we need to give him a shot. Getting a middle infielder isn't too important right now since Freel is also playing well right now. when it comes down to it the Reds wont be good until our pitching improves. Trading away our few pitching prospects for hitters isn't going to help us improve because our weaknesses will only become more glaring.

Redmachine2003
05-26-2005, 09:56 PM
But you are also getting a pitching prospect in return and maybe two depending on the lower level prospect. So how is that hurting the Reds Pitching. Yes Claussen has only given up 2 runs in his last 9 plus innings but teams are hitting over .300 against him, he walks almost as many as he strikes out and gives up more hits than innings pitched. You are also getting a hitter would can play any place on the infield and can hit for power. Which can open up more trades for more pitching.

Patrick Bateman
05-26-2005, 10:12 PM
It kind of depends on the other pitching prospect that you speak of. Claussen is better then Hudgins and Coffey is likely better than the other pitching prospect. That is how it hurts the pitching. If it is true that Graves can net Hudgins, then the deal is really Kinsler and a pitching prospect for Claussen and Coffey. Not a bad trade, but I think Claussen is being under valued here. He has been fairly decent htis year. with more experience I expect him to be one of our better pitchers which I am not willing to give up to get a middle infielder which isn't really a neccessity.

Royals Fan
05-29-2005, 12:26 AM
Giants wanted a solid bullpen guy-So they trade for the HAWK ( he;s not even closer with Tyler Walker lisited as there closer)-Would you given anything to have both the young pitchers the Cubs made out with.Graves or Wagner of combnation with someone else could have fetch those 2 young arms.

Marc D
05-29-2005, 12:32 AM
To be fair to the witless, I don't think anyone will give anything of value for Graves. He's completely done as a major league ball player and anyone with a scouting department knows it.

Besdies, Auriilia is coming back to start at SS soon and Dan O has told them all to focus more over the next 40 games so we should be fine. :cry:

Henry Clay
05-29-2005, 01:41 AM
Here is a little more, somewhat dated information to add to the speculation. On Thursday evening, Rotoworld predicted that Graves would not make it to free agency, but would be dealt to one of a number of teams that included the Rangers, Cubs, Rockies, Marlins, and Red Sox. The Giants were not mentioned, which should comfort those concerned that Latroy Hawkins stole the Reds' chance of dealing Graves.

Per Rotoworld:

Reds GM Dan O'Brien said that ''multiple teams'' had expressed interest ''to varying degrees'' in trading for Danny Graves.
It's very unlikely that Graves will become a free agent after being designated for assignment three days ago. The Rangers, Cubs, Rockies, Marlins and Red Sox are among the teams that are believed to have engaged in trade talks with the Reds.

WVPacman
05-29-2005, 01:57 AM
W L ERA G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB SO
2 2 3.00 7 7 1 0 39.0 38 14 13 2 13 31


By the looks of his stats he would be a nice adition for the Reds so I say hurry and make this deal tomorrow.

SteelSD
05-29-2005, 02:17 AM
It kind of depends on the other pitching prospect that you speak of. Claussen is better then Hudgins and Coffey is likely better than the other pitching prospect. That is how it hurts the pitching. If it is true that Graves can net Hudgins, then the deal is really Kinsler and a pitching prospect for Claussen and Coffey. Not a bad trade, but I think Claussen is being under valued here. He has been fairly decent htis year. with more experience I expect him to be one of our better pitchers which I am not willing to give up to get a middle infielder which isn't really a neccessity.

If you could get a projectible middlie infielder like Kinsler and a back-end option like Hudgins- even without a third prospect included- for Graves/Claussen/Coffey, you do it.

The problem with Claussen is that he's not the Brandon Claussen we thought the Reds were trading for. Frankly, I'm positive the Reds know this. And I'm pretty sure the Rangers do as well. So, no one's getting a guy like Kinsler included in a deal for three suspects.

You really have to understand how bad Claussen has been this season:

18.3 Pitches per IP
<5.0 IP per Start (even if he didn't get hit in the elbow with a batted ball, he'd still be right at 5.0 IP per start)
1.74 WHIP
.380 OBP Against, .478 SLG Against- .858 OPS Against

An .855 OPS Against would have ranked 82nd among 87 ERA Qualifiers last season. Among all MLB players who've thrown a pitch in 2005, Claussen ranks 346th.

It's that bad.

His HR rate is bad. His K rate has actually decreased from last season. If he were throwing 92-93 MPH, I'd have a much easier time watching and waiting on the guy. But as it is, if you have a real value deal staring you in the face you have to pull the trigger because he's doing nothing that can't easily be replaced.

But again, unless we expect Texas to be dumber than they were last season (wouldn't give up Kinsler period), we'll have to hope that Claussen will regain that 5-7 MPH he's currently missing. And, if he does, I only hope he can help the rest of our arms find the velocity they're missing as well.

Aronchis
05-29-2005, 02:26 AM
One theory about Claussen's "lost" velocity is that he mis-rehabed his arm while in the Yankee system and never has regained the arm strength he should have.

Claussen similiarly struggled in AAA last year to June after losing 5mph(on average) with the fastball. By Augest he was starting to show signs of topping out 91-92 instead of 88-89 though his control and stamina were rundown. Now why would he gain 2-3mph of velocity in a month?

Royals Fan
05-29-2005, 03:08 AM
My guess GM'S are playing chicken right now,We have seen the big trade today with the Hawk heading to SF.Chicago Cubs are in need of some bullpen help with Borwoski injury prone and Texas bullpen is in shabbles.


I guess O'Brien rather deal with his old Boss John Hart than with a inner- dvision team like the Cubs.

My bet Graves will be dealt to the Rangers for John Hudgkins( who's not on there 40 man roster per the Dallas paper) and the Reds picking up the 5M price tag.


Or Outside Chance

to the Cubs for John Leiscaster and reds pick the same price tag.

to the Marlins for Lansing Koneig and the Reds pay the Graves salary

to the Nationals for either Zach Day or Claudio Vargas- paying half Danny's salary.

Royals Fan
05-29-2005, 03:09 AM
My guess GM'S are playing chicken right now,We have seen the big trade today with the Hawk heading to SF.Chicago Cubs are in need of some bullpen help with Borwoski injury prone and Texas bullpen is in shabbles.


I guess O'Brien rather deal with his old Boss John Hart than with a inner- dvision team like the Cubs.

My bet Graves will be dealt to the Rangers for John Hudgkins( who's not on there 40 man roster per the Dallas paper) and the Reds picking up the 5M price tag.


Or Outside Chance

to the Cubs for John Leiscaster and reds pick the same price tag.

to the Marlins for Lansing Koneig and the Reds pay the Graves salary

to the Nationals for either Zach Day or Claudio Vargas- paying half Danny's salary.

ws1990reds
05-29-2005, 03:14 AM
Looksl like Danny will be traded...howevere, just a thought...Danny said he wants to get a MRI before pitching somewhere else to make sure he is healthy. What happens if the MRI picks something up? I know trades woul dbe off, but would happens to his status with the Reds? Anyone know?

Could this be something that Danny uses against the Reds. Just playing conspiracy theorist, wondering if an MRI would hurt his trade value, forcing the Reds to get literally nothing for him or making them look bad in some other way (as if they don't already). ;)

Aronchis
05-29-2005, 03:03 PM
I would throw in Claussen with Graves if I could get the Rangers 22 year old AAAer. It is called taking out unneeded parts.

tts1stros
05-29-2005, 09:09 PM
This is getting nuts.

The Rangers will NOT trade any 22 year old AAA pitcher for Danny Graves, let alone Hudgins. If they do, Hart will be summarily fired. But he won't.

Best you can hope for is maybe a low quality A arm. There's just no way anyone is giving up anything of quality for Danny Graves.

Rocket_Fuel
05-30-2005, 08:20 PM
Yes the Rangers will trade a young arm if they know other teams are interested in Graves (which they are). Especially the Cubs and a team they are battling for a playoff spot, the Boston Red Sox.

Rocket_Fuel
05-30-2005, 08:21 PM
I would throw in Claussen with Graves if I could get the Rangers 22 year old AAAer. It is called taking out unneeded parts.

That would be stupid. You don't give up a young arm to get a young arm, you stockpile young arms.

Rocket_Fuel
05-30-2005, 08:22 PM
One theory about Claussen's "lost" velocity is that he mis-rehabed his arm while in the Yankee system and never has regained the arm strength he should have.

Claussen similiarly struggled in AAA last year to June after losing 5mph(on average) with the fastball. By Augest he was starting to show signs of topping out 91-92 instead of 88-89 though his control and stamina were rundown. Now why would he gain 2-3mph of velocity in a month?

Maybe his ankle?

Rocket_Fuel
05-30-2005, 08:24 PM
People who are advocating trading Brandon Claussen you don't trade quality young arms just for the heck of it. You stockpile it. And even if you don't think that Claussen is a quality young arm you have to give him a chance to succeed and fail. When you're in the situation the Reds are in you don't just start giving away and trading away young pitching. Unless it's crap pitching like Danny Graves.

Krusty
05-31-2005, 02:08 AM
Make the damn trade with the Rangers.

Revering4Blue
05-31-2005, 05:17 AM
This is getting nuts.

The Rangers will NOT trade any 22 year old AAA pitcher for Danny Graves, let alone Hudgins. If they do, Hart will be summarily fired. But he won't.

Best you can hope for is maybe a low quality A arm. There's just no way anyone is giving up anything of quality for Danny Graves.

Well, he gave away Colby Lewis and Ben Kozlowski, did he not?

So a decent prospect isn't out of the question, especially with the Reds picking up most of the tab. No Kinsler, Danks or Arias, though.

KronoRed
05-31-2005, 05:49 AM
Make the damn trade with the Rangers.

I doubt they want to make that trade.

People I think we are grossly overestimating the interest in Graves here..I'll be shocked if he's traded at all..I see a release.

BuckU
05-31-2005, 11:55 AM
Well, he gave away Colby Lewis and Ben Kozlowski, did he not?

So a decent prospect isn't out of the question, especially with the Reds picking up most of the tab. No Kinsler, Danks or Arias, though.

And Dan Kolb

Strikes Out Looking
05-31-2005, 12:58 PM
I would venture to guess the reason nothing has been done is that the Reds are trying to see which team will pay the most of his salary for this year. The player in return is probably less important in the FO's mind than trying to squeeze out a few more bucks from the team they are going to eventually send him.