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beb30
05-30-2005, 12:00 AM
Ok, everyone can post in Red's Live, but only experienced members can post in Old Red Guard? I don't really understand why we have to look at two boards and only be allowed to post in 1.....I've been here since this thing pretty much started and i dont know if i necessarily find it insulting, but im pretty disappointed this board once was "For Reds fans, by Reds fans" has now only turned into experienced or paying members only for the Old Reds Guard board....Personally i unfortunately can't sponser any money into this site b/c im in college and am pretty much dead broke. Besides what exactly does it prove being able to have two boards and being allowed to only post on 1? Why not have 1 completely unseen from people that are "inexperience" or "non-paying"? I dont know it really just hit me tonight that its kind of ridiculous that it has been spread apart like this. :confused:

Patrick Bateman
05-30-2005, 12:22 AM
Ok, everyone can post in Red's Live, but only experienced members can post in Old Red Guard? I don't really understand why we have to look at two boards and only be allowed to post in 1.....I've been here since this thing pretty much started and i dont know if i necessarily find it insulting, but im pretty disappointed this board once was "For Reds fans, by Reds fans" has now only turned into experienced or paying members only for the Old Reds Guard board....Personally i unfortunately can't sponser any money into this site b/c im in college and am pretty much dead broke. Besides what exactly does it prove being able to have two boards and being allowed to only post on 1? Why not have 1 completely unseen from people that are "inexperience" or "non-paying"? I dont know it really just hit me tonight that its kind of ridiculous that it has been spread apart like this. :confused:

The orginal and more dedicated posters were getting tired of hearing all of the constant complaining and insulting posts going on so they put an end to it. All of the whiners were newer posters that weren't as dedicated to the Reds as they were. I think it was a great idea. Those that prove that they are true fans and are knowledgeable will eventually make the ORG and those that whine will not be rewarded. It makes good sense IMO.

RedsMan3203
05-30-2005, 12:27 AM
Yeah -- But the rep points are very bias.

I've made a few comments and i've gotten negative points on them when I felt they aren't even worthy of negative points.

And i've also made a few comments I felt I should of gotten posative points, and haven't gotten any.

remdog
05-30-2005, 12:31 AM
Ok, everyone can post in Red's Live, but only experienced members can post in Old Red Guard? I don't really understand why we have to look at two boards and only be allowed to post in 1.....I've been here since this thing pretty much started and i dont know if i necessarily find it insulting, but im pretty disappointed this board once was "For Reds fans, by Reds fans" has now only turned into experienced or paying members only for the Old Reds Guard board....Personally i unfortunately can't sponser any money into this site b/c im in college and am pretty much dead broke. Besides what exactly does it prove being able to have two boards and being allowed to only post on 1? Why not have 1 completely unseen from people that are "inexperience" or "non-paying"? I dont know it really just hit me tonight that its kind of ridiculous that it has been spread apart like this. :confused:

Agree with beb30. Not to mention, it's a pain in the butt to have to read both 'mini-boards' and, basically, read redundant threads.

Rem

FoReel
05-30-2005, 12:32 AM
Its really hard to get rep point if u just started out and u dont have any buddies to give u rep points,
Anyone wanna be my buddy??

WVPacman
05-30-2005, 12:33 AM
Ok, everyone can post in Red's Live, but only experienced members can post in Old Red Guard? I don't really understand why we have to look at two boards and only be allowed to post in 1.....I've been here since this thing pretty much started and i dont know if i necessarily find it insulting, but im pretty disappointed this board once was "For Reds fans, by Reds fans" has now only turned into experienced or paying members only for the Old Reds Guard board....Personally i unfortunately can't sponser any money into this site b/c im in college and am pretty much dead broke. Besides what exactly does it prove being able to have two boards and being allowed to only post on 1? Why not have 1 completely unseen from people that are "inexperience" or "non-paying"? I dont know it really just hit me tonight that its kind of ridiculous that it has been spread apart like this. :confused:

BEB30,just think as if your climbing a hill and with every good post that you write the higher you will be on the hill.We all had to start from 10 points it isn't just you some gets to 200 fast and some others it takes a little longer.Like Kearns said the main posters that have been on here from the beginning seen that the board was going down hill fast so they thought of this idea with the points reputation.Just hang in there and right good posts about the Reds and baseball and they will reward you.

FoReel
05-30-2005, 12:35 AM
I need to get people drunk and tell them to gimme rep point lol?
And no thats not how i get gurls either!!
Does that deserve rep points?? lol

RedlegJake
05-30-2005, 12:37 AM
It HAS helped, imo. Already there are fewer really irritating, stupid posts with namecalling and bashing. People really want to get points and seem to keep that in mind when posting - yet it hasn't deterred debate or disagreements. Made a bit more civil.

MartyFan
05-30-2005, 12:39 AM
Well, I guess if I had been here as long as you...I may feel a bit putoff...but as for me...the system has done little to impact what I do...I don't read the other board...not because I am not interested but because if I am interested in something on that board I would never be able to respond...so I just read RedsLive and save myself the frustration.

ws1990reds
05-30-2005, 12:44 AM
The orginal and more dedicated posters were getting tired of hearing all of the constant complaining and insulting posts going on so they put an end to it. All of the whiners were newer posters that weren't as dedicated to the Reds as they were. I think it was a great idea. Those that prove that they are true fans and are knowledgeable will eventually make the ORG and those that whine will not be rewarded. It makes good sense IMO.

Where did you come to that conclusion? Are you saying that fans that spend hundreds of dollars per year to watch the Reds (or even buy a subscription to watch them on television), but don't come to this site, aren't "true fans"? Do you think that posters with thousands of posts here are more of a fan than those that who have only a few posts? Please, for your own sake, think about it. ;)

remdog
05-30-2005, 12:48 AM
The orginal and more dedicated posters were getting tired of hearing all of the constant complaining and insulting posts going on so they put an end to it. All of the whiners were newer posters that weren't as dedicated to the Reds as they were. I think it was a great idea. Those that prove that they are true fans and are knowledgeable will eventually make the ORG and those that whine will not be rewarded. It makes good sense IMO.

Disagree AK. Who is to asertain who is 'more' dedicated to the Reds? You don't think 'whining' isn't going on there? Think again.

And please define what 'proves' they are 'true fans'? Is it the ones that agree with the stat crowd ad nauseaum for fear of being beaten into submission by multiple posts submitted by that clique? Or is it the ones that actually observe the game and form their opinions based upon observation in real time?

And what qualifies as 'knowledgeable'? Is it someone that can break down a stat sheet or is it someone that can recognize a flaw in a swing or a pitching delivery?

Sorry, but if it's going to be a discussion board, you have to allow all opinions and let readers agree or disagree.

As to your statement, 'it makes good sense', I definately disagree.

Rem

MartyFan
05-30-2005, 12:51 AM
The orginal and more dedicated posters were getting tired of hearing all of the constant complaining and insulting posts going on so they put an end to it. All of the whiners were newer posters that weren't as dedicated to the Reds as they were. I think it was a great idea. Those that prove that they are true fans and are knowledgeable will eventually make the ORG and those that whine will not be rewarded. It makes good sense IMO.

I actually laughed out loud when I read this...Dude...way to stir the pot...really...very funny.

remdog
05-30-2005, 12:57 AM
Well, I guess if I had been here as long as you...I may feel a bit putoff...but as for me...the system has done little to impact what I do...I don't read the other board...not because I am not interested but because if I am interested in something on that board I would never be able to respond...so I just read RedsLive and save myself the frustration.

Marty Fan: I don't know if you were responding to a post I made but you've embellished the point I was trying to make.

I'm interested in everyone's opinion, new or old, and having to travese between boards or reading the ORG board and knowing that someone with a possibly viable comment may not be able to respond is, IMO, counter productive.

If someone gets out of line, steps can be taken but, personally, I find this system silly, redundant and greatly more convoluted than it should be.

Rem

guttle11
05-30-2005, 12:57 AM
Ok, everyone can post in Red's Live, but only experienced members can post in Old Red Guard? I don't really understand why we have to look at two boards and only be allowed to post in 1.....I've been here since this thing pretty much started and i dont know if i necessarily find it insulting, but im pretty disappointed this board once was "For Reds fans, by Reds fans" has now only turned into experienced or paying members only for the Old Reds Guard board....Personally i unfortunately can't sponser any money into this site b/c im in college and am pretty much dead broke. Besides what exactly does it prove being able to have two boards and being allowed to only post on 1? Why not have 1 completely unseen from people that are "inexperience" or "non-paying"? I dont know it really just hit me tonight that its kind of ridiculous that it has been spread apart like this. :confused:

:rant: Who Cares? So, we cant post on the ORG yet. Frankly, I could care less about reputation. This isnt a popularity contest. I come on here to talk about what I love, and that is Reds Baseball. If some one in the ORG likes my posts, and gives me rep points, cool, if not oh well.

I have seen many a good post here on Reds Live by people with 500 posts but rep points around 50, and many a bad pointless post by ORG members.

Lets cut the complaining about ORG and rep points off now, and turn our focus back to what we all came here for and that is to gather and talk Reds baseball. Lets have fun with Redszone, as you can tell by my ever changing SIG or by some of my semi-witty responses, i have fun with this. Im fairly new here, but I love it. I have been to other fan-forum sites, and this is the best.

some of you in the ORG might find this cheesy, but I dont care, lower my rep, I will still come here, unless I get banned.

end of :rant:

p.s. my rep is higher than yours :mooner:

Wheelhouse
05-30-2005, 12:59 AM
I think it's ridiculous that I have been posting on this site for nearly four years and I am not a part of ORG. I just don't get it beyond the fact that I think the board contollers just don't like my opinions. But in fact, I like Reds Live! better. I don't have to read opinions I don't agree with as much. But make no mistake, the whole ORG thing is based on the type of opinions you hold, not their quality.

Tommyjohn25
05-30-2005, 01:00 AM
As it states to the left of my name, i joined this site in January of this year. I will say in my opinion that the split has really helped the quality of conversation on this board, everyone probably has a different opinion of why that is and people are entitled to that opinion. I myself think that it is simply because people are attempting to articulate what they are saying more carefully, trying to be less abrasive therefore making their point in a better manner therefore gaining rep points, and there is nothing wrong with that, like I said, better conversation.

MartyFan
05-30-2005, 01:20 AM
Marty Fan: I don't know if you were responding to a post I made but you've embellished the point I was trying to make.

I'm interested in everyone's opinion, new or old, and having to travese between boards or reading the ORG board and knowing that someone with a possibly viable comment may not be able to respond is, IMO, counter productive.

If someone gets out of line, steps can be taken but, personally, I find this system silly, redundant and greatly more convoluted than it should be.

Rem

Ummm...yeah, I was responding to your original post...just giving my thoughts on it.

Jpup
05-30-2005, 01:22 AM
I think it's ridiculous that I have been posting on this site for nearly four years and I am not a part of ORG. I just don't get it beyond the fact that I think the board contollers just don't like my opinions. But in fact, I like Reds Live! better. I don't have to read opinions I don't agree with as much. But make no mistake, the whole ORG thing is based on the type of opinions you hold, not their quality.

:thumbup: you have to remember that this is a private site.

Patrick Bateman
05-30-2005, 01:26 AM
Disagree AK. Who is to asertain who is 'more' dedicated to the Reds? You don't think 'whining' isn't going on there? Think again.



Rem

Well it's pretty easy to tell by the amount of fans who lose interest when the Reds start losing. Have you noticed how the original posters havn't declined while a large sum of the newer posters have started posting less as the year has gone along.

The switch to two boards needed to be made. I read this forum daily and near the end of the one board system it was getting almost unreadable. People were whining over the same things over and over. the quality in the posts were lacking greatly. I can see some posters like Wheelhouse that have a beef since they are veterans of Redszone. with the two board I find reading them has become much easier. you really only need to read just one of them since they seem to contain the same information and discussion topics.

I can understand many people disagreeing with my original post but I don't see how it can be considered "laughable". I made a fair argument. I understood what had to happen. People can still post on RedsZone while giving the veteran posters an alternative by discussing with some of the more knowledgeable fans. I know there are some very knowledgeable fans on this board too. If they are, then the people on ORG will likely give you enough rep points to go up quickly. I hate to single out some people but look at Caveat Emporor, Joseph, Matt700WLW and many others that moved up very quickly.

It's not that difficult to get rep points anyways. For example I have almost as many rep points as I do posts. and how about BillyBeaneFan, he joined all of like a week ago and I believe he is more than half to 200 posts.

Agree or disagree with the decisions, but it has worked and I bet the majority of the posters would agree with that.

Reds Nd2
05-30-2005, 01:34 AM
I'm interested in everyone's opinion, new or old, and having to travese between boards or reading the ORG board and knowing that someone with a possibly viable comment may not be able to respond is, IMO, counter productive.

Rem

I don't see it that way. For one, I don't have a problem visiting Reds Live and reading the opinions expressed here. I view it as no different from visiting other Reds forums and reading the posts there. I'm interested in varying opinions as well and the truth is, most of the threads on ORG are replicated on Reds Live. Anyone who has a viable comment to make on a subject on ORG, has the same opportunity to make it on Reds Live. I've noticed alot of threads on Reds Live are started by members of ORG. People are trying to give everyone an opportunity to express their opinions on a given subject here. I think, no I'm convinced, the split has made the quality of posts on both forums better.

I thought Austin Kearns post was an accurate summary of the things leading to the split and found it funny who the first couple of people to rip on it were.

Boss-Hog
05-30-2005, 02:13 AM
You should try moderating several thousand members who disagree with seemingly every decision you make or anytime a suspension is handed out for violating the board's rules. It's not too fun, nor do I have the interest or time to personally respond to every private message I get about 'overmoderation'. That's not something I enjoy doing and I know several other moderators who feel the same way.

You were around from the very beginning and you know how good the board used to be. In my opinion, the board is a lot closer to how it was originally than where we were at a month ago, in terms of the site's mission. Additionally, this forum receives PLENTY of posts from ORG members and that's encouraged. If the worst thing that's happened since the change is that users have to look at two forums, I think that's a very small price to pay for the noticeable increase in the quality of posts. That's my two cents.

Boss



Marty Fan: I don't know if you were responding to a post I made but you've embellished the point I was trying to make.

I'm interested in everyone's opinion, new or old, and having to travese between boards or reading the ORG board and knowing that someone with a possibly viable comment may not be able to respond is, IMO, counter productive.

If someone gets out of line, steps can be taken but, personally, I find this system silly, redundant and greatly more convoluted than it should be.

Rem

Boss-Hog
05-30-2005, 02:19 AM
I think it's ridiculous that I have been posting on this site for nearly four years and I am not a part of ORG. I just don't get it beyond the fact that I think the board contollers just don't like my opinions. But in fact, I like Reds Live! better. I don't have to read opinions I don't agree with as much. But make no mistake, the whole ORG thing is based on the type of opinions you hold, not their quality. Yes, this move was clearly made with us, as a committee, collectively saying - "How could we possisbly screw Wheelhouse the most?"

Boss-Hog
05-30-2005, 02:25 AM
I added an an anonymous poll to this thread just so we can see where everyone stands - solely for kicks. Regardless of the tally, the new system will remain in place, just as GIK and I said when we both agreed to implement it.

Ravenlord
05-30-2005, 03:50 AM
i think the overall quality of posts in both forums has increased. as well, there seem to be fewer and fewer trolls now. i like it.:beerme:

RedsMan3203
05-30-2005, 04:45 AM
This is what I would of done.

1) Freeze the account list from the day you set up RedsLive! Who ever was on site before that time would have acess to posting to the ORG Board....

2) If your account has been inactive for some time, then you don't get to post on that board.

3) If you have had any trouble in the past on the fourms, your account can only get into RedsLive untill you've reached the 200 pt min.

4) Any accounts created after RedsLive created only gets into the RedsLive fourm to post till the rep points are up to 200.

Of course, if you've been here for awhile.. you get to stay on with the others untill you prove that you are not worthy of posting on the board.

SirFelixCat
05-30-2005, 06:57 AM
i think the overall quality of posts in both forums has increased. as well, there seem to be fewer and fewer trolls now. i like it.:beerme:


I agree 100%. :beerme:

TeamCasey
05-30-2005, 08:25 AM
I think it's good. It separated two groups of people who were equally responsible for much the noise. (Sent everyone to their corners.) It also simply separated the large population. There were just too many people on one board.

I read both boards and find good stuff on both. I don't mind redundant threads between the two, the discussions sometimes take different, interesting courses.

dman
05-30-2005, 09:12 AM
Yeah -- But the rep points are very bias.

I've made a few comments and i've gotten negative points on them when I felt they aren't even worthy of negative points.

And i've also made a few comments I felt I should of gotten posative points, and haven't gotten any.

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You hit the nail right on the head.

KittyDuran
05-30-2005, 09:50 AM
Yeah -- But the rep points are very bias.

I've made a few comments and i've gotten negative points on them when I felt they aren't even worthy of negative points.

And i've also made a few comments I felt I should of gotten posative points, and haven't gotten any.FYI...I have never and will never give out negative rep points - I just ignore the post. AND I only give our positive points to posters on Reds Live!

KittyDuran
05-30-2005, 09:55 AM
Ok, everyone can post in Red's Live, but only experienced members can post in Old Red Guard? I don't really understand why we have to look at two boards and only be allowed to post in 1.....I've been here since this thing pretty much started and i dont know if i necessarily find it insulting, but im pretty disappointed this board once was "For Reds fans, by Reds fans" has now only turned into experienced or paying members only for the Old Reds Guard board....Personally i unfortunately can't sponser any money into this site b/c im in college and am pretty much dead broke. Besides what exactly does it prove being able to have two boards and being allowed to only post on 1? Why not have 1 completely unseen from people that are "inexperience" or "non-paying"? I dont know it really just hit me tonight that its kind of ridiculous that it has been spread apart like this. :confused:Even tho' I disagree with your opinion, I still gave you rep points for bringing up the conversation...

KittyDuran
05-30-2005, 10:06 AM
I try to use these rules when I start a thread on RedsZone...

1) If it's just for informational purposes, i.e. bobbleheads, player appearances, comments on the game, it gets posted on ORG.
2) If I want varied responses and opinions it goes on Reds Live!

savafan
05-30-2005, 10:08 AM
I too feel that the conversations are better. And, I spend most of my time on Reds Live! I enjoy seeing what new posters have to offer, and like it better now that I don't have to sift through all of the troll posts.

KittyDuran
05-30-2005, 10:22 AM
BEB30,just think as if your climbing a hill and with every good post that you write the higher you will be on the hill.We all had to start from 10 points it isn't just you some gets to 200 fast and some others it takes a little longer.Like Kearns said the main posters that have been on here from the beginning seen that the board was going down hill fast so they thought of this idea with the points reputation.Just hang in there and right good posts about the Reds and baseball and they will reward you.It's important to those on Reds Live! to remember that over at ORG sometimes our hands are tied when we try to give out rep points. For example, I really :luvu: Pacman's posts, but I have to spead around the rep points to 15 other posters before I can up WV's points. AND I can only give out 5 rep points per 24 hours! :p:

smith288
05-30-2005, 10:47 AM
If you guys couldnt care less about the ORG, what is with this whine fest to get reputation points?

Here is my 2 cents: Its Boss' and GIK's toy, they can do with it as they please.

paintmered
05-30-2005, 10:56 AM
For all those who recently joined and don't have many rep points yet:

It takes time. That was one of the purposes of this system. We didn't want somebody to join one week and have 400 reputation points the next. So if you feel that you aren't getting anywhere with your rep, please be patient and keep posting.

deltachi8
05-30-2005, 11:56 AM
Just my $0.02 -

Its not my board, and those that invest the time, $$ and heart into can make whatever rules they wish. Thats the way it should be.

I just like being able to read and post here. At first, I hated it, but who am i to say? Truthfully, I like the Redslive board and could not care less if I am invited to the other as I fully intend to stay here. I know my role!

As for rep points, give em, take em, i don't really care what others think of me. If I post something I think is good, thats all that matters to me.

So my advice, enjoy the Reds Talk, I think its active and good anywehere on here.

Krusty
05-30-2005, 12:17 PM
Okay, I'll add my two cents since I'm on the other board.

1. I'm not thrilled about the reputation points. I just don't see the purpose and I have ove 10,000 posts. Just because someone was here from the beginning and donated money doesn't mean he is a more credible poster than someone who just came onboard.

2. As for the two sites, I thought with additional moderators you would have more watch dogs looking out for others. You prevent other baseball fans from entering Old Red Guard to add their input.

3. Granted it's Boss-Hogg's and GIK's site. They have the right to do what they want. But I felt that it wasn't being dragged down to the level the Cincinnati.com site was.

Now this is just my opinion so please don't take it personally.

MWM
05-30-2005, 12:39 PM
Is this going to be debated every couple of weeks? The people putting all the time and energy into this site like it and that's all that matters. But it's hard to deny the quality of the ORG board now compared to before the changes. It's night and day. I think it was a great move (and I fully expect to get negged for this post!).

Shaggy Sanchez
05-30-2005, 12:44 PM
My only complaint is for some of us that have been coming here for a long time (2 years for me) and haven't posted a lot. Most of the time I only read but sometimes I do post (256 before this one) and now I am limited to where I can post. I have made 3 or 4 posts since the whole new reputation system and I have recieved nothing so the odds of me ever getting to post in the ORG are pretty slim at this point. This is upsetting because there have been topics in the ORG that I would have like to have posted on recently but could not.

I understand that something had to be done because there were starting to be some annoying posts, but to some of us that didn't post a lot I feel we have gotten screwed. In my opinion when you see people that have been around 2 years and only have 256 posts, you can pretty much assume that they weren't part of the problem that caused all the changes.

savafan
05-30-2005, 12:49 PM
Shaggy,

If there were topics that you wanted to discuss on ORG, then you could have looked for those topics on RL. If they weren't there, you could have started the threads yourself and gotten the ball rolling. Not calling you out here in a negative way, just trying to show you what you can do at RL to discuss what you want to say. Just because something is already being discussed on ORG doesn't mean it can't be discussed at RL also.

LexingtonRedsFan
05-30-2005, 01:13 PM
Shaggy....I,like you, have been around here for awhile also, but mostly lurk....but I also started out with the 10 rep points, and I have discovered that I seem to now post more on Reds live as it appears to be made up of us that dont post alot and I have seen my rep points move up into the 40's...so, it does work. One of these days I might hit the 200 points, but I might just keep myself down here in the "minors"...:beerme:

Chip R
05-30-2005, 01:20 PM
Yeah -- But the rep points are very bias.

I've made a few comments and i've gotten negative points on them when I felt they aren't even worthy of negative points.

And i've also made a few comments I felt I should of gotten posative points, and haven't gotten any.It's unfortunate that something like that happens. Lord knows I've gotten several PMs complaining about that very thing. That's not what giving positive or negative rep points is about. But no system is perfect and this is the best we have come up with. We have made posts and sent e-mails to ORG members to use the rep point system for its intended purpose - to reward posters for good post content and vice versa. The vast majority abides by this but there isn't a whole hell of a lot we can do about it if they don't. All I can say is that if you make good posts, eventually you will be rewarded. In the meantime, enjoy Reds Live.

SandyD
05-30-2005, 01:41 PM
Shaggy....I,like you, have been around here for awhile also, but mostly lurk....but I also started out with the 10 rep points, and I have discovered that I seem to now post more on Reds live as it appears to be made up of us that dont post alot and I have seen my rep points move up into the 40's...so, it does work. One of these days I might hit the 200 points, but I might just keep myself down here in the "minors"...:beerme:

I hate that term ... "the minors." There's quality discussion on RL. No one should think of RL as the minors. Just a little more loosely structured conversation.

thorn
05-30-2005, 01:44 PM
The 2 boards are equal to "it's my ball, and if you can't play by my rules, I'm taking my ball to another place where all the players play alike" However, there right, if we don't like it, we can go somewhere else. I would prefer a site like Reds Liver over the homerism and and tight nit group on the other board. I need to be careful, they may ban me.

Boss-Hog
05-30-2005, 02:06 PM
The 2 boards are equal to "it's my ball, and if you can't play by my rules, I'm taking my ball to another place where all the players play alike" However, there right, if we don't like it, we can go somewhere else. I would prefer a site like Reds Liver over the homerism and and tight nit group on the other board. I need to be careful, they may ban me.

That, right there, made my day.

savafan
05-30-2005, 02:13 PM
I would prefer a site like Reds Liver over the homerism and and tight nit group on the other board.

Mmmmmm, liver....with onions! :thumbup:

WVRed
05-30-2005, 02:13 PM
My $.02-

For the most part, I echo MWMs post regarding the quality of posts. The gamethreads were becoming a constant pain to read through with the likes of "Rich Aurilia Sucks!" and the Non Baseball Chatter was a constant problem with the political threads.

When the reputation system began and the two forums were split, the difference became noticeable. Some people began changing their posting habits so they could get back into the circle, while others either left or continue their style of posting, not really caring if they ever made it to TORG.

Are there problems with the reputation system? You bet. Team Clark was dinged in a thread because he refused to give up his source on Danny Graves getting released. There have been other situations as well. But while the system isnt perfect, its a WHOLE lot better than what we had.

I can tell a major difference by just looking at the Non Baseball Chatter. We havent had near the political arguments that turned absolutely disgusting because people have a reputation to maintain. The quality of the board overall has went up. :thumbup:

RedsMan3203
05-30-2005, 02:18 PM
In the meantime, enjoy Reds Live.

I like to enjoy RedsZone, just happens Reds Live is where I have to post. :beerme:

KittyDuran
05-30-2005, 02:21 PM
The 2 boards are equal to "it's my ball, and if you can't play by my rules, I'm taking my ball to another place where all the players play alike" However, there right, if we don't like it, we can go somewhere else. I would prefer a site like Reds Liver over the homerism and and tight nit group on the other board. I need to be careful, they may ban me.The 2 boards are still RedsZone...

redram
05-30-2005, 02:38 PM
I must say I have mixed feelings about this thing.
First I would challenge anyone living to being a bigger REDS fan than I.
I have followed this team since 1970, through the good and the bad. I have praised and I have blasted players during these times. In 1990 I lived in Atlanta Ga, before the internet and I would sit in my car trying to pick up WLW ON MY RADIO because I could not sleep until I knew if we won or lost. And if we lost I could not sleep anyway LOL. My Son is a huge A's fan so to say that Wrold Series was special is an understatement. I have been this way since day one with this team. I am not as knowlegable as many here about stats and numbers but that does not make me less of a fan. I have been a member here for years. I usually read and don't post much. I have made a few post since this new thing started only to see nothing happen to my points. And you will NEVER see me BEG for them. I can understand not wanting posters that post all negative remarks, but why can't they be delt with individually. I will still come here and read, and make a post every now and then, but probl never get enough points to post on the other board, and quite frankly I find that a bit insulting. Someone refered to the other board as the majors and this board the minors. AGAIN, I would challenge anyone living to being as big a fan as me. I love this team. I get angry when they do stupid things, I scream when they do great things, and I will drive over 450 miles one way every year to watch them play live. This is just one fans voice, not meaning to undermine what the MOD's here have done. It is their board and they are entitled. I just can't say I agree
Ted
Fan since 1970

TeamBoone
05-30-2005, 02:41 PM
I liked having one board because it seems it took less time to read one as opposed to two.

That being said, however, I've seen much less blasting of individuals and more intelligent baseball discussion since the new system was introduced. It hasn't totally been eliminated mind you but it has definitely improved. And this applies to BOTH forums!

Speaking of both forums, I enjoy reading and posting on Reds Live just as much as The Old Red Guard, and I don't prefer one over the other.

SandyD
05-30-2005, 02:47 PM
I think it's good. It separated two groups of people who were equally responsible for much the noise. (Sent everyone to their corners.) It also simply separated the large population. There were just too many people on one board.

I read both boards and find good stuff on both. I don't mind redundant threads between the two, the discussions sometimes take different, interesting courses.

I think TC hit it right on the head. No one is saying that one side is for "bigger Reds fans" than the other. The two boards are just different.

And I actually find it takes LESS time to read the board because I can pick and choose better what I read and when I read it.

Boss-Hog
05-30-2005, 02:52 PM
For those who think it takes too long to read posts with two forums in place, there's a simple way around that: by clicking on the "New Posts" link in the navigation bar. It shows you all the new posts from all forums since your last visit, so I don't see how having another forum could use more of your time.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/search.php?do=getnew

Boss-Hog
05-30-2005, 02:55 PM
I must say I have mixed feelings about this thing.
First I would challenge anyone living to being a bigger REDS fan than I.
I have followed this team since 1970, through the good and the bad. I have praised and I have blasted players during these times. In 1990 I lived in Atlanta Ga, before the internet and I would sit in my car trying to pick up WLW ON MY RADIO because I could not sleep until I knew if we won or lost. And if we lost I could not sleep anyway LOL. My Son is a huge A's fan so to say that Wrold Series was special is an understatement. I have been this way since day one with this team. I am not as knowlegable as many here about stats and numbers but that does not make me less of a fan. I have been a member here for years. I usually read and don't post much. I have made a few post since this new thing started only to see nothing happen to my points. And you will NEVER see me BEG for them. I can understand not wanting posters that post all negative remarks, but why can't they be delt with individually. I will still come here and read, and make a post every now and then, but probl never get enough points to post on the other board, and quite frankly I find that a bit insulting. Someone refered to the other board as the majors and this board the minors. AGAIN, I would challenge anyone living to being as big a fan as me. I love this team. I get angry when they do stupid things, I scream when they do great things, and I will drive over 450 miles one way every year to watch them play live. This is just one fans voice, not meaning to undermine what the MOD's here have done. It is their board and they are entitled. I just can't say I agree
Ted
Fan since 1970 Rest assured, save for one post in this thread (which is not accurate), no one thinks anyone with posting ability on ORG is a bigger, more dedicated fan than someone without it. We're all pretty big Reds' fans for being here in the first place, right?

beb30
05-30-2005, 03:12 PM
I didn't realize when i posted this late last night i was going to get such an outcry. Like many of the people who dislike it i simply don't see the point of it still. Someone can post ignorant threads on Reds Live still so what exactly has been accomplished. Most of the time i just read peoples messages and either laugh or ignore them and do not respond that often (as you can see only 250 some posts in 4 years). Now when i see a post i totally disagree with i would like to be able to respond in a different opinion. I just dont see the point of having the ability to see two boards and only being able to post in one. I have never had a bad post since before redszone days when the "originals" were posting on cincinnati.com, but with these reputation points what do i have to prove?

TeamDunn
05-30-2005, 03:17 PM
One of the other alternatives was to make it a pay forum, would that have made everyone happier that is currently not happy about the set up? Or a completely private board to where only certain people could post or read, is that what people want? While you may not agree with it, be happy that you can post at all here.

Redsman, regarding your post:

This is what I would of done.


1) Freeze the account list from the day you set up RedsLive! Who ever was on site before that time would have acess to posting to the ORG Board....

2) If your account has been inactive for some time, then you don't get to post on that board.

Of course, if you've been here for awhile.. you get to stay on with the others untill you prove that you are not worthy of posting on the board.

How exactly would #1 have solved the problems as the problems were rampant with the membership that was in tact when Live was formed? :confused: Regarding # 2, many of the people that used to post here were not actively posting BECAUSE of the horrible shape the board was in.

At some point I hope any mention of the current system gets a thread locked. It is there, everyone can still post, everyone can still read. If a thread is discussed only in ORG anyone can start the same thread in the Live forum.

Anyone that was a member of this forum could have had access to ORG if they had simply purchased a 1 month subscription at any time, which if I remember was $3.00?

By no means is the current system perfect, there are people that post in ORG that are troublemakers and pain in the butts, but over all the change in attitudes and posting have been completely turned around. I was not sure in the beginning it would work, but I was wrong and am very glad to see how it has changed the over all feel of the board. People do not want to get dinged so they pay more attention to what they say, or rather HOW they say it.

redram
05-30-2005, 03:22 PM
Rest assured, save for one post in this thread (which is not accurate), no one thinks anyone with posting ability on ORG is a bigger, more dedicated fan than someone without it. We're all pretty big Reds' fans for being here in the first place, right?


You are Correct Sir. :) :) :)

TeamDunn
05-30-2005, 03:24 PM
I just wanted to add that I don't thing getting to post in ORG and only being able to post in Live are making the difference in the quality of the board. I think it is the fact that such a drastic change was made that people are putting more thought into it and into their posts.

It was an attention getter in my opinion. People are more aware now.

savafan
05-30-2005, 03:29 PM
:clap:

At some point I hope any mention of the current system gets a thread locked. It is there, everyone can still post, everyone can still read. If a thread is discussed only in ORG anyone can start the same thread in the Live forum.



:clap:

Boss-Hog
05-30-2005, 03:33 PM
TeamDunn raises some really good points and I want to remind everyone about some of those:


One of the other alternatives was to make it a pay forum, would that have made everyone happier that is currently not happy about the set up? Or a completely private board to where only certain people could post or read, is that what people want? While you may not agree with it, be happy that you can post at all here.


The Son's of Sam Horn decided to close their forum and only allow applications for entry. Boss and I felt that policy was too subjective. How are we (Boss and I) supposed to know how much of a benefit you or anyone else will be to the community from a two paragraph essay? It's impossible. I don't want to know your baseball qualifications, I want to see you post. And I want the community to vote, not the owners. Maybe I'm wrong, but in my eyes it's a better system.

As I've said several times, shutting the board off COMPLETELY to new registrations and those who didn't register in 2000 or was a subscriber was an extremely viable possibility that we strongly considered. If you don't believe me, go check out what they've done at the Sons of Sam Horn message board and then come and talk to me about 'getting the shaft'.


Anyone that was a member of this forum could have had access to ORG if they had simply purchased a 1 month subscription at any time, which if I remember was $3.00?


By no means is the current system perfect, there are people that post in ORG that are troublemakers and pain in the butts, but over all the change in attitudes and posting have been completely turned around. I was not sure in the beginning it would work, but I was wrong and am very glad to see how it has changed the over all feel of the board. People do not want to get dinged so they pay more attention to what they say, or rather HOW they say it.


We fully understand that there will be plenty of backlash toward this drastic change in the way the site operates. We imagine most of the criticism will be along the lines of only allowing the people we like to post or that your freedom of speech is being suppressed (despite this being a privately run site). We anticipate this and welcome feedback and questions about this new change. If that is how you feel, I suggest visiting the Sons of Sam Horn site, a similar style message board for Boston Red Sox fans. Their site experienced similar problems to what weíre having and made the decision to not allow any new members without first submitting an application as to why they belong on the site. We could have just as easily done something like that, but we want to continue to give a voice to those who werenít with us from the beginning or have not subscribed in the past. If youíre unhappy about this decision, the great part about it is that your peers will be the ones to rate the quality of your posts and this will be the deciding factor as to who can post in the main forum. However, one thing that we absolutely will not do is go back on this decision just because some are unhappy about it. The board currently has over 2,300 registered members and if thereís one thing weíve learned from this, itís that itís impossible to please everyone. A lot of time and research went into this decision and itís one that has the full support of both of us.

Cincinnati Reds Talk will follow the simple mission statement RedsZone had upon its creation: "Intelligent baseball discussion. Quality over quantity."

GIK and Boss-Hog
RedsZone.com Co-Founders

thorn
05-30-2005, 03:43 PM
Look out, he's done broke out the rules.

TeamDunn
05-30-2005, 03:54 PM
Since he owns the board I guess he's earned that right! :beerme:

kxblue
05-30-2005, 05:50 PM
I haven't been following this system change too closely as I have been very busy with school. As one of the more casual fans on this board, I use Redszone as my primary source of information about the Reds, as it is much better than the Enquirer or WLW talk radio. I have found no problems with the system change for this purpose, as both boards contain much, if not all, of the same news. I only post when I have an opinion which has not yet been stated, or, if I disagree with what is being said. Reds Live! is probably the second most active Reds Message Board on the internet, behing ORG. Because of this, I see Reds Live as a great message board. I preferred the old system, as it inspired more discussion, but this system is perfectly fine.

I haven't really kept up on this, but how is the board funded now? Can people still subscribe?

Boss-Hog
05-30-2005, 06:05 PM
I haven't been following this system change too closely as I have been very busy with school. As one of the more casual fans on this board, I use Redszone as my primary source of information about the Reds, as it is much better than the Enquirer or WLW talk radio. I have found no problems with the system change for this purpose, as both boards contain much, if not all, of the same news. I only post when I have an opinion which has not yet been stated, or, if I disagree with what is being said. Reds Live! is probably the second most active Reds Message Board on the internet, behing ORG. Because of this, I see Reds Live as a great message board. I preferred the old system, as it inspired more discussion, but this system is perfectly fine.

I haven't really kept up on this, but how is the board funded now? Can people still subscribe? The recent move replaced the subscription system. I think we're OK on finances for the short term - but once that money is gone, the site will go back a donation system that is used to fund our expenses. You can donate at anytime by sending a paypal to GIK or via check or money order. If you'd like either address, please let me know. Thanks for the question.

TC81190
05-30-2005, 06:23 PM
Sooooo...how do I get an avatar? :confused:

Boss-Hog
05-30-2005, 06:25 PM
Sooooo...how do I get an avatar? :confused: For bandwidth purposes, they're reserved for those with ORG posting access.

TC81190
05-30-2005, 06:26 PM
So once I get 200 rep. points I get an avatar?

Sweet.

Boss-Hog
05-30-2005, 06:27 PM
So once I get 200 rep. points I get an avatar?

Sweet. Yes. These are the minimum requirements to receive ORG posting access if you weren't "grandfathered" in:

-Reputation of 200
-A registered member for 30 days
-60 posts

savafan
05-30-2005, 07:01 PM
Yes. These are the minimum requirements to receive ORG posting access if you weren't "grandfathered" in:

-Reputation of 200
-A registered member for 30 days
-60 posts

So a user has to meet all three requirements?

remdog
05-30-2005, 07:20 PM
One of the other alternatives was to make it a pay forum, would that have made everyone happier that is currently not happy about the set up? Or a completely private board to where only certain people could post or read, is that what people want? While you may not agree with it, be happy that you can post at all here.

Redsman, regarding your post:

This is what I would of done.



How exactly would #1 have solved the problems as the problems were rampant with the membership that was in tact when Live was formed? :confused: Regarding # 2, many of the people that used to post here were not actively posting BECAUSE of the horrible shape the board was in.

At some point I hope any mention of the current system gets a thread locked. It is there, everyone can still post, everyone can still read. If a thread is discussed only in ORG anyone can start the same thread in the Live forum.

Anyone that was a member of this forum could have had access to ORG if they had simply purchased a 1 month subscription at any time, which if I remember was $3.00?

By no means is the current system perfect, there are people that post in ORG that are troublemakers and pain in the butts, but over all the change in attitudes and posting have been completely turned around. I was not sure in the beginning it would work, but I was wrong and am very glad to see how it has changed the over all feel of the board. People do not want to get dinged so they pay more attention to what they say, or rather HOW they say it.

The problem with bandwith/cost was that the 'be the last poster thread(s) were eating up the space. It had turned into a chat room for a few and it sucked up resorces. Eliminate that and there is no reason to worry about bandwidth.

This board exsists solely for and because people do post on it! No posts---no board. That's the bottom line. Alinate those with differing opinions and you turn it into a board of 'huggy/kissy guys' who just want to tell each other how great they are. Give me some opinion, some observation that doesn't rely on dead stats. I want to hear what people are thinking----even if I don't agree. If I don't agree, I'll let them know.

Bottom line: Cleaned up bandwidth, let the people speak. Donations will flow to keep the site alive.

Rem

OldCat
05-30-2005, 07:30 PM
The problem on the board was never differing opinions. The problem was the shreking tone and attacks, which were bad even if you agreed with whatever point was trying to be made. Having moderators wield suspension hammers was actually making matters a little worse, as some though they were too quick with the suspensions, others that they were not quick enough.

Negative Rep was never a means for punishing different opinions. Its a means for indicating dissatisfaction with a post/poster that lowers the civil nature of the board, hopefully allowing the poster to learn what is or is not acceptable.

I think the vastly improved tone of both boards after the changes, the veteran posters who came back, and the quick graduation of many shows that the changes were both needed and effective.

WMR
05-30-2005, 07:35 PM
Personally I think that the two forum deal is perfectly fine. I think just about everyone reads both boards, so it isn't like you are shut out from having conversations with the entire RedsZone membership... Overall, I think that just about everyone has made a conscious effort to "step their game up" in terms of saying things in the correct manner.

As a relatively new RedsZoner who had never before heard about RedsZone until my good buddy CincyRedsFan30 told me about it, I have found RedsZone to be an absolute delight, and an even bigger delight since this "transition."

Before I knew about the existence of RedsZone, the only place that I knew of to talk about the Reds was the AOL Reds Message Board, which, for anyone who reads/follows it at all knows that it is sort like a Cincinnati Reds-Chat purgatory!

LOL, if RedsZone (and by RedsZone I mean Reds Live! as well as Old Red Guard) is the "major leagues" of Cincinnati Reds message boarding then the AOL Reds message board is low single A ball w/o any major league affiliation!!!

Boss-Hog
05-30-2005, 07:37 PM
So a user has to meet all three requirements? That's correct.

RBA
05-30-2005, 08:49 PM
This is how I feel: I want Ribs and Potato Salad for dinner and no heartburn afterwards.

Rocket_Fuel
05-30-2005, 08:50 PM
I haven't had much problem with it right now. As long as I work hard and get to the promised land I'm happy! :D

KronoRed
05-30-2005, 09:01 PM
This is how I feel: I want Ribs and Potato Salad for dinner and no heartburn afterwards.

Malox. :cool:

TC81190
05-30-2005, 09:33 PM
Creek = teh rock. :cool:

pedro
05-31-2005, 04:56 AM
The thing I don't like is how self conscious the whole two tiered system has made some folks. Let it go. Talking about it makes us all sound like a bunch of high school kids talking about how pretty we are. Yeah, we might be gorgeous, or maybe not, but if we don't stop talking about it, everyone is going to think we are idiots, no matter how good we really look.

I think the less we talk about this stuff, the better off we'll all be.

The only other thing I'd like to say is that don't give negative points to someone unless you really think their input is harmful to the Redszone community.

smith288
05-31-2005, 09:30 AM
The only other thing I'd like to say is that don't give negative points to someone unless you really think their input is harmful to the Redszone community.

As do I. Rarely will I slap a neg on anyone unless there is profanity or something along those lines.

And for all those who complain about having to read two boards... I guess I dont understand that. I find that twice the RedsZone reading is twice the pleasure. If its so much work to consume RedsZone, maybe you could look at it differently?

REDREAD
05-31-2005, 10:26 AM
Its really hard to get rep point if u just started out and u dont have any buddies to give u rep points,
Anyone wanna be my buddy??

I gave you some over the weekend. Just keep making good posts, and you'll get to your 200 points. I give out all 5 of my votes everyday on the Live board. I'm sure there's others that do the same. Just be patient and make good posts, and you'll get there.

OldRightHander
05-31-2005, 10:39 AM
Well, I think it has improved things a bit. At first I was a little miffed about being "left out", but I moved up quickly enough. I enjoy reading both boards because if one board's topics don't interest me, there will always be something good on the other. There are quite a few good posts on here lately and I don't have any problem giving out my allotment of rep points every day. Those who write good posts are going to move up. I don't give points because so and so is a favorite, but because I like what so and so wrote. I don't think I'm the only one who sees it that way.

zombie-a-go-go
05-31-2005, 10:41 AM
The point is that, occasionally, we get threads like these, which are good for some light, humorous reading when one is downing their morning coffee and gearing up for their day at the office. ;)

Steve4192
05-31-2005, 10:46 AM
Negative Rep was never a means for punishing different opinions. Its a means for indicating dissatisfaction with a post/poster that lowers the civil nature of the board, hopefully allowing the poster to learn what is or is not acceptable.
You just hit the nail on the head.

Folks should NEVER be dinged because someone disagrees with their opinon. They should only be dinged when they attack other posters or otherwise derail a thread into a pissing match.

Boss-Hog
05-31-2005, 05:03 PM
You just hit the nail on the head.

Folks should NEVER be dinged because someone disagrees with their opinon. They should only be dinged when they attack other posters or otherwise derail a thread into a pissing match. Bingo

luvdozer
05-31-2005, 05:55 PM
And please define what 'proves' they are 'true fans'? Is it the ones that agree with the stat crowd ad nauseaum for fear of being beaten into submission by multiple posts submitted by that clique? Or is it the ones that actually observe the game and form their opinions based upon observation in real time?

And what qualifies as 'knowledgeable'? Is it someone that can break down a stat sheet or is it someone that can recognize a flaw in a swing or a pitching delivery?

Sorry, but if it's going to be a discussion board, you have to allow all opinions and let readers agree or disagree.

Rem

So, is it your experience that ORG posters are all sabermetricians and dont give out rep points to any post unless it espouses that viewpoint?

As to your question about the definition of knowledgeable, I would say either skill would make one knowledgeable about baseball. I would also say that the ability to observe and understand both would enhance one's baseball experience as well as make for the most intellectually stimulating conversation.

I am a new member, so I cannot say if this system is better than the old system. I can say that I come here to have discussions with knowledgeable fans who root for the same team as me. Since I can do that, I am happy. If I am able to accumulate rep points so that I am invited to join a group of discussions in addition to these, I would happily do both.

guttle11
05-31-2005, 05:59 PM
ask mark hyman!

OldXOhio
05-31-2005, 06:39 PM
I don't know which cracks me up more - the rep points or the people on here who worry about them? If the authors of this site want to segregate the boards, then so be it...they can do that. If you're bent out of shape b/c your reputation isn't what you think it ought to be, I would first suggest you get a life before arguing your case to the mods.

Just post where you can, when you want and what you want and quit worrying about what you cannot do.