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View Full Version : 9 year old girl stabs to death 11 year old playmate over a ball



savafan
06-01-2005, 11:47 AM
This world is getting more and more screwed up by the day. :(

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/314586p-269062c.html

BY KERRY BURKE and ALISON GENDAR
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

A baby-faced 9-year-old allegedly stabbed her best friend through the heart yesterday as the girls fought over a pink rubber ball - a killing that shocked even hardened Brooklyn cops.

Queen Washington, an 11-year-old straight-A student and the "star" of her family, was left dead in a tragic, senseless crime that tore apart the two girls' mothers - also best friends.

The 9-year-old was charged with manslaughter last night after she allegedly plunged a kitchen knife into Queen as they tussled outside the apartment where they had spent many hours playing together.

"She wanted to go over there to spend Memorial Day weekend," Queen's devastated grandmother Muriel Washington, 44, told the Daily News.

"She loved being with" the 9-year-old, Washington added sadly. "That was my baby. It's terrible, terrible."

Shocked cops could not remember a girl this young being accused of such a brutal act.

As the 9-year-old was led away by police, her weeping mother followed her out of the Linden Houses in East New York, carrying a pair of shoes for the barefoot fourth-grader.

Because of her age, the 9-year-old will face charges in Family Court rather than Criminal Court, law enforcement sources said. The News is withholding her name.

The tragedy unfolded at 1:30 p.m. as the two pals got into a squabble over a spaldeen ball in the seventh-floor hallway outside the 9-year-old's apartment.

When Queenie, as her friends called her, refused to hand over the ball, the 9-year-old ran into her flat, grabbed the knife and buried it in the fifth-grader's chest, cops said.

The 9-year-old's mother had just stepped out to borrow a brush to fix her daughter's hair.

The girl's 16-year-old brother came out of the Wortman Ave. apartment to find Queen lying in a pool of blood, said neighbor Lissette Vega, 54.

"She looked like a bundle, she was not moving," Vega said. "The young guy was standing over her with a cell phone calling the police. I didn't want to look.

"How could one child kill another?"

The alleged stabber seemed stunned and didn't try to flee, sources said.

Queen's grandfather Earl Washington described the vivacious girl as the "star of the family, she was going places."

She was a straight-A student who loved books and dancing and playing Double Dutch, relatives said. Relatives said the tragedy came five years to the day after the death of Queen's father.

Queen was set to graduate from fifth grade next month at Public School 256 in Bedford-Stuyvesant.

"She was really excited about it. She asked everybody if they were coming to her graduation," said her grandmother, a drug counselor's assistant who raised Queen since the girl was born.

Now, instead of attending Queen's graduation, the family will plan her funeral.

What makes the horror even more baffling was that Queen's mother, Felicia Washington, was best friends with the 9-year-old's mom, relatives said.

Queen had been invited to the girl's home for a Memorial Day barbecue and loved spending time there.

"I can't imagine what happened," Muriel Washington said. "I can't believe it. [The 9-year-old's] mother was supposed to be watching her. I don't like them being left alone."

There were few tears for the 9-year-old suspect.

"She was a little thug," said neighbor Diva McPhatter, 44. "I always asked her to behave, but she was rude. She fought all the time. She was out of control. I'd confront her, but she'd just roll her eyes."

"We're not going to have any youth left," McPhatter added. "Now babies are killing babies. It's crazy."

With Tanyanika Samuels

bomarl1969
06-01-2005, 11:55 AM
Regardless of age this girl should get life in prison, without parole. This isn't a case of manslaughter, it is cold blooded murder.

LincolnparkRed
06-01-2005, 11:55 AM
This is just beyond depressing. What kid thinks that grabbing a knife and stabbing your friend over a ball makes any sense. when one of my friends wanted something from me, we might wressle or punch each other in the arms but I just don't understand how a kid that young can have that much rage.

TeamDunn
06-01-2005, 12:13 PM
Too many kids today have no coping skills. I don't know where the problem begins or how to stop it, but they do not know how to deal with not getting things their way.

So sad.

Johnny Footstool
06-01-2005, 12:51 PM
If I may go off on a bit of a tangent here, this incident and others like it reinforce the need for better education across the board. Parents need to learn coping skills they can pass on to their children, and kids need to learn and share social skills with their peers.

Any candidate with a decent plan for improving the educational system in this country (and no, privatizing is NOT the answer) will get my support.

deltachi8
06-01-2005, 12:56 PM
The answer is in the home - schools can not teach what parents (or lack there of) will not also preach, teach and uphold at home. The schools are fighting a losing battle in many ways, and spending every dollar we have on it wont change that. Things have to change at home first and foremost.

registerthis
06-01-2005, 01:06 PM
Regardless of age this girl should get life in prison, without parole. This isn't a case of manslaughter, it is cold blooded murder.
A nine year old should get life in prison?

That makes about as much sense as stabbing your friend over a ball.

Johnny Footstool
06-01-2005, 01:19 PM
Things have to change at home first and foremost.

That's the Catch-22 -- things won't change at home until people get a better education in school. Parents can't teach their children social skills if they haven't learned them themselves. You've got to keep chipping away at the problem by educating and socializing children and giving them a chance to escape the vicious circle.

CrackerJack
06-01-2005, 01:30 PM
That's the Catch-22 -- things won't change at home until people get a better education in school. Parents can't teach their children social skills if they haven't learned them themselves. You've got to keep chipping away at the problem by educating and socializing children and giving them a chance to escape the vicious circle.


Agree, dual income support and planned parenting would do a lot for the poor who are caught up in an endless cycle of this kind of thing. Having babies as teenagers is committing yourself to a poor, unfulfilling life usually, and creates a huge disadvantage.

bomarl1969
06-01-2005, 02:01 PM
A nine year old should get life in prison?

That makes about as much sense as stabbing your friend over a ball.

An 11 year old girl has lost her life over this. I feel it deserves the upmost attention in punishment. Like I said, its murder whether it be a 9 year old, 19 year old, or 89 year old. All murderers MUST be punished to the fullest extent that the law allows.

TeamDunn
06-01-2005, 03:07 PM
Some criminals like this are able to be rehabilitated. Amy Fisher comes to mind. She seems to have done well since getting out of prison.

I don't know if is the help some receive behind bars, or their own will to change. Sending a 9 year old to prison for her entire life is extreme (in my opinion anyway). The reason for this tragedy needs to be found and she needs to be helped.

What she did is absolutely horrible, I am not saying it isn't. But I do feel a life sentence is over the top.

It is as bad as that 35 year sentence the guy got for stealing a b/w tv back in the 70's. :(

bomarl1969
06-01-2005, 03:12 PM
It is as bad as that 35 year sentence the guy got for stealing a b/w tv back in the 70's. :(

Like the Bible says sin is sin and one isn't worse than another. You do the crime, you do the time. All criminals need to be dealt with severly, even children.

TC81190
06-01-2005, 03:14 PM
Someone siad it earlier. 15 year old kids having babies are not going to be able to teach a child necessary life skills.

bomarl1969
06-01-2005, 03:25 PM
Someone siad it earlier. 15 year old kids having babies are not going to be able to teach a child necessary life skills.

In the words of James Hetfield, sad but true.

registerthis
06-01-2005, 04:10 PM
An 11 year old girl has lost her life over this. I feel it deserves the upmost attention in punishment. Like I said, its murder whether it be a 9 year old, 19 year old, or 89 year old. All murderers MUST be punished to the fullest extent that the law allows.
That's fine--and the law DOESN'T allow for a 9 year old child to be locked up for the remainder of her natural life. She can't be tried as an adult in this case because she couldn't possibly have had the capacity to understand what she was doing.

She'll likely be placed into juvenile detention until she is 18 and be forced to undergo counseling to understand why she did what she did. Hopefully she can be rehabilitated and eventually become a productive member of society.

What she did was terrible, and she needs to be punished and rehabilitated accordingly. But 9 year olds have no business being locked up for life because they lack the capacity to fully understand and appreciate their actions. That will be the case here.

bomarl1969
06-01-2005, 04:13 PM
What she did was terrible, and she needs to be punished and rehabilitated accordingly. But 9 year olds have no business being locked up for life because they lack the capacity to fully understand and appreciate their actions. That will be the case here.

Tell that to the 11 year old's family.

919191
06-01-2005, 04:42 PM
Tell that to the 11 year old's family.

The purpose of punishment is not to make the victim or the victim's family "feel better". Most people are not that shallow.

bomarl1969
06-01-2005, 04:45 PM
The purpose of punishment is not to make the victim or the victim's family "feel better". Most people are not that shallow.

I know that, but anyone who commits a murder deserves to be locked up for the rest of their life.

The Baumer
06-01-2005, 04:55 PM
Regardless of age this girl should get life in prison, without parole. This isn't a case of manslaughter, it is cold blooded murder.

I'm not sure this would be a good idea. 9 year olds are still typically young, and sending this one to prison for life will have virtually no affect on other young future murderers. They aren't old enough to stop and think "Hey, if I do this, I'll go to prison for my whole life" or even understand what that means.


Like the Bible says sin is sin and one isn't worse than another. You do the crime, you do the time. All criminals need to be dealt with severly, even children.

Then every single person in the world should be in prison. God is our judge, not our neighbor.

919191
06-01-2005, 04:57 PM
I know that, but anyone who commits a murder deserves to be locked up for the rest of their life.

You really think a 9 year old understands the meaning and consequences of a deadly act? That is usually necessary for a homicide to be murder.

RANDY IN INDY
06-01-2005, 04:58 PM
While I have a hard time thinking that a nine year old should spend the rest of their life in prison, sometimes I think we underestimate the understanding of children. Sometimes I think they know exactly what they are doing.

registerthis
06-01-2005, 05:12 PM
While I have a hard time thinking that a nine year old should spend the rest of their life in prison, sometimes I think we underestimate the understanding of children. Sometimes I think they know exactly what they are doing.
Well, the way I look at it is, when I was 13 or 14 years old, i was able to understand *what* I was doing.

Now, however, not only do I know what I'm doing, but I understand the consequences of it--that my actions have a direct consequence on other people and things that I may not have considered 10-15 years ago.

I think children generally know what they do is *wrong*, it's the consequences they cannot always perceive or understand. It's really something that only comes with maturity and experience.

RANDY IN INDY
06-01-2005, 05:27 PM
I don't know about you, but the world is a much different place, now, than when I was a youngster. The things that my son understands, at 7, is at a much advanced level than when I was a child. But, even at a very young age, I understood the consequences of my actions, mainly because it was instilled in me by my parents, my teachers, and the adults that I grew up around. It is a real shame that all children do not have that advantage. What I see now, are many parents and a lot of society making excuses for all sorts of abhorent behavior and finding reasons why their children should not be punished, rather than teaching that rights come with responsibility for one's actions. As another thread suggested, it is a very sad world that we are living in.

DoogMinAmo
06-01-2005, 05:33 PM
I know it is a very sad incident, one that I am appalled at as much as many other are I am very sure.

But, did anyone else read "11 year old playmate" and think something else is really wrong with the world today? :bang:

TC81190
06-01-2005, 06:14 PM
But, did anyone else read "11 year old playmate" and think something else is really wrong with the world today? :bang:

No.

registerthis
06-01-2005, 06:46 PM
I don't know about you, but the world is a much different place, now, than when I was a youngster. The things that my son understands, at 7, is at a much advanced level than when I was a child. But, even at a very young age, I understood the consequences of my actions, mainly because it was instilled in me by my parents, my teachers, and the adults that I grew up around. It is a real shame that all children do not have that advantage. What I see now, are many parents and a lot of society making excuses for all sorts of abhorent behavior and finding reasons why their children should not be punished, rather than teaching that rights come with responsibility for one's actions. As another thread suggested, it is a very sad world that we are living in.
I'm not arguing about right and wrong, you should do this and shouldn't do that...I'm pretty sure the 9 year old girl knows that killing is "wrong." but, at 10 years old I knew that talking back to my parents was wrong, but i did it anyway, in large part because I didn't understand, fully, the effect my actions were having on them or why they would or would not do certain things. Kind of tough to spell out in an email, I know, but I don't care what kind of parents you have, your upbringing, your environment, etc. The idea of cause-effect is a tough one for children of any age to grasp. It's not so much WHAT'S wrong, but WHY it's wrong.

It's why children are deemed to lack the capacity to make important decisions about themselves, why they are not able to enter into contracts (or may back out of them at any time if they so choose), why they can't vote or drive...they lack the capacity to understand the full effects of the choices they make, even those they know to be 'wrong."

I'm in no way trying to excuse what the 9 year old did, it's absolutely horrible, and anyone that behaves like that obviously has some serious mental defects. But I'm also not going to say that, at age 9, she has made a decision that should deprive her of her free life for the remainder of her life, either.

RANDY IN INDY
06-01-2005, 08:05 PM
Nor, was that what I was saying, either, but I do believe that a child of 9 should know that thrusting a knife into another childs chest is in no way the right thing to do under any circumstances. Life should not go on for this child as if she spilled her milk. There should be some serious consequences for this action.

Unassisted
06-01-2005, 09:16 PM
Context means everything here.

My guess is that these two girls don't live in an idyllic, suburban setting where every home has a flower bed and a 2-car garage. It sounds more like they live on mean streets where violence, drugs and other forms of lawlessness are everyday occurrences. They probably knew more people who died violently than any of us do.

There's been some grumbling about why parents didn't intercede here. Generalizing with statistics, it's a good bet that dad is in prison and mom was away from home working, since it's the only way she can qualify for public assistance. I'd like to think they would have prevented this if they had been home, but you can't ignore that it was probably not by choice that they were not home.

Rather than simply warming up Old Sparky for the stabber, and putting this out of our minds, I think we should be considering the desperation represented by this situation and thinking about whether this could happen again to others in similar circumstances.

GAC
06-01-2005, 09:39 PM
I'm not arguing about right and wrong, you should do this and shouldn't do that...I'm pretty sure the 9 year old girl knows that killing is "wrong." but, at 10 years old I knew that talking back to my parents was wrong, but i did it anyway, in large part because I didn't understand, fully, the effect my actions were having on them or why they would or would not do certain things. Kind of tough to spell out in an email, I know, but I don't care what kind of parents you have, your upbringing, your environment, etc. The idea of cause-effect is a tough one for children of any age to grasp. It's not so much WHAT'S wrong, but WHY it's wrong.

It's why children are deemed to lack the capacity to make important decisions about themselves, why they are not able to enter into contracts (or may back out of them at any time if they so choose), why they can't vote or drive...they lack the capacity to understand the full effects of the choices they make, even those they know to be 'wrong."

I'm in no way trying to excuse what the 9 year old did, it's absolutely horrible, and anyone that behaves like that obviously has some serious mental defects. But I'm also not going to say that, at age 9, she has made a decision that should deprive her of her free life for the remainder of her life, either.

I agree. And yet if it were differing circumstamces, our society today feels this same 9 yr old can make decisions on their own and circumvent parental rights/notification.

You can't have it both ways.

There needs to be greater disciplne/control in both the home and the public schools. Our public school system's hands have been "tied" in this area.

Our society, IMO, has reaped what they have sown. And it's very, very sad.

We've sold this generation of chldren out IMO when it comes to morale truth/relativity. The boundaries have been skewered and erased with little or no accountability.

Not saying this child deserves prison or some harsh treatment. But her actions simply are indicative of the problem. And we're all shaking our heads as to what to do.

Why?

Because we've never, as a society, had to confront such an "epidemic" of our children committing such gruesome murders at such a scale. It's become a norm anymore.

registerthis
06-02-2005, 10:22 AM
Nor, was that what I was saying, either, but I do believe that a child of 9 should know that thrusting a knife into another childs chest is in no way the right thing to do under any circumstances. Life should not go on for this child as if she spilled her milk. There should be some serious consequences for this action.
I completely agree.

Reading the article yesterday, someone made a quote along the lines of "The girl didn;t have any family issues--she has a good family." Well, she obviously has issues SOMEWHERE, because 9 year olds don't just stab their friends to death over a dispute over a ball.

Cripes.

GAC
06-03-2005, 10:49 AM
I completely agree.

Reading the article yesterday, someone made a quote along the lines of "The girl didn;t have any family issues--she has a good family." Well, she obviously has issues SOMEWHERE, because 9 year olds don't just stab their friends to death over a dispute over a ball.

Cripes.

But how many times have we heard that after some sort of tragedy happens like this, where others close to that person(s) say that there was no way they could believe that "so and so", knowing them for years, could be capable of doing such a thing?

Many friends, relatives, and neighbors are saying the same thing about the 18 yr old here in Bellefontaine who shocked this whole community last weekend with the multiple murders/sucide.

Now, several days later, as more and more pieces are being put together, they are finding out things weren't as they seemed/appeared on the outside.

I was talking with a group of friends the other day after this tragedy occurred here in Bellefontaine. And a vast majority of them are my age (50-ish).

We look at what is going on within our society today, and mainly with our youth, and in our public schools, and that we are consistently reading almost on a day to day basis of tragedies like this involving our youth, and it made us reflect back (in a comparative way) when we were growing up in the 50's/60's.

No, we didn't live in an ideal society. It wasn't Ozzie & Harriet or Leave It To Beaver. But it also wasn't Roseanne or the Simpsons either.

When it came to our youth, and the public schools, we didn't have the threat of a Columbine ....or seeing 9 yr olds stabbing a playmate over a playground dispute... we didn't need metal detectors in our schools because the only thing being shot was spitballs and paperclips.... weapons, while just as plentiful then as today, weren't being brought to school... and any schoolyard fights that did occur (and there were plenty) were settled with fists. And they ususally ended when someone got popped in the nose, there was that first sight of blood, and clothes got torn (Mom's fury would then be worse then what your opponent gave you). But you never thought of going home, getting Dad's gun or some other weapon, and finding that kid the next day and blowing him away. In fact, you were probable going to end up being friends with them again at some point.


IMO ... there is the lack of discipline in both the home and the schools. And when I say discipline, I am not referring to this "spare the rod and spoil the child" type of beating on them (abuse). Though I do believe, when the situation is appropriate, of spanking a child, and that along with that goes positive reinforcement.

How many post WW2 baby boomers on here ever got spanked in the home, or cracked while in school? Can I get a witness? ;)

I did. And it didn't leave me emotionally scarred. Looking back on those situations now, I deserved them. I learned from those situations. And it also let me know who was in control. I also learned to respect authority, whether it was parental or in the school, and who was in control.

I saw that there were consequences for my actions. Do today's kids see that?

That's the problem IMO... who has control? What has been taken away from the parents and the school systems?

Back then, we weren't exposed to all that kids are now. We didn't have all the distractions that kids have now. And I really feel sorry for alot of the youth today because it seems with such things as video games, MP3 players, and such, they leave nothing for the kid's imagination. Kids today are told what/how to think. Children today are being overwhelmed IMO. There is more and more pressure on them.

We had our share of questionable stuff going on back then too. But then, I can remember when we only had 4-5 channels on TV. And some of those were on UHF, and it depended on the weather that day as far as picking up channels. ;)

But our parents did their job and said "No!". Some things we were allowed to gradually experience as we got older, and could handle more. I hated it that my older sister got to do things that I couldn't. But it was still a parental decision with no debate/discussion. The parents took that repsonsibility seriously. Do parents today, as a whole, so the same? Or are they too overwhelmed? We didn't always like it (we're kids - we weren't suppose to). But I fully understand now, having teenagers of my own, WHY my parents did it.

If we don't protect our children today from alot that is being thrown out them, and what they are being exposed to... then who will?

Parents today give in too easily to their kids. And maybe there is some guilt associated with that when alot of times they are both working outside the home, and they can't give the kids the attention they need.

Simply put - we allow other things to enter our kid's lives and replace the things we, as parents, should be giving our kids. And it has been a terrible trade-off IMO.

And in the area of discipline, nowadays, whether in the home or at school, you do something to a kid and you have social services, children services, and the local authorities coming after you and investigating you. And anymore, the kids know this, and use it to their advantage.

And I'm sorry; but in our materialistic society, where both the parents are working outside the home... who is raising the kids during those formative years when they are so impressionable and looking for that guidance/mentoring? If they are not getting it consistently from a Mom or Dad, then where or who are they looking to?

And a divorce rate of over 50% doesn't help matters any either.

The breakdown of family is the cause IMO of what we are seeing going on. And no one is gonna change my mind otherwise.

savafan
06-03-2005, 11:09 AM
I couldn't agree any more with everything you just said GAC! :clap: