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New Fever
06-03-2005, 02:32 AM
The Reds orginization, always messes up :bang: :bang: :bang:
A free top 200 player in this year's draft and we still don't sign him, It doesnt suprise me though, we didn't sign Nick Markakis a couple years ago and he was a top 10 prospect, drafted 7th by Baltimore. Give all the money to Graves, Milton, and Dlo or maybe even Aurilla but not the future. Milton Loo will be a star ;)


Draft And Follow Update

By Allan Simpson and John Manuel
May 30, 2005
San Jacinto (Texas) Junior College righthander Stephen Marek was set to become one of the hardest throwers in the 2005 draft class.

But the Angels wouldn’t let that happen.

The Angels, who drafted Marek last year in the 40th round, signed him in the last week of May to a bonus of $800,000. It’s the largest bonus given to the approximately 35 draft-and-follows who had signed out of junior colleges this year.

Marek was named the most outstanding pitcher at the 2004 Junior College World Series, where the Gators finished second, and has plenty of arm strength. He hit 98 mph with his fastball during fall ball and spent most of the spring working at 92-94 mph and touching 96. His curveball often gives him a second plus pitch.

A reliever at San Jac, Marek figured to go in the second or third round if he had re-entered the 2005 draft. The only juco player who is believed to have received a comparable signing bonus was Pirates draft-and-follow Brad Clapp, a righthander drafted in the 19th round out of Bellevue (Wash.) Community College last year. Clapp signed for a reported $350,000 bonus.

Juco players who get significant signing bonuses frequently have one significant tool, such as Chipola (Fla.) Junior College outfielder Darren Ford, who signed for $200,000. The Brewers' 18th-round pick in 2004 completed a .306-1-32 season with 45 stolen bases for the Indians. Ford's speed is no secret, as the Major League Scouting Bureau rates him as an 80 runner on the 20-80 scouting scale.

Other DFE tidbits:

• North Carolina’s top JC players, righthanders Marcus Covington (Braves) and Woods Fines (Devil Rays), both signed out of Louisburg JC. Covington was one of six DFEs the Braves signed, including athletic outfielder Trevion Griffin (Wallace, Ala., JC) and hard-throwing righthander Josh Ward (Chipola, Fla., JC).

• The Nationals locked up hard-hitting catcher Brian Peacock out of Manatee (Fla.) JC, who was expected to be picked in the first 10 rounds next week had he not signed.

• The Devil Rays signed shortstop Jimmy Scholzen out of Dixie State (Utah), and Scholzen will now go out on a two-year Mormon mission before playing for the Rays.

• Technically, because they didn’t go back to college, Stephen Drew and Jered Weaver count as draft-and-follow signees.

DRAFT-AND-FOLLOW SIGNINGS

Following are players who were under control from the 2004 draft and have signed this spring. Players had until midnight on May 31, the start of the closed period, to sign--unless they were involved in postseason play, in which case they are given a 72-hour window to sign.

ARIZONA


Player, Pos., School
Round

Stephen Drew, ss, Camden (Atlantic)
1

Jo Jo Batten, 2b, Middle Georgia JC
35

Lorenzo Church, rhp, Central Arizona JC
38

Eduardo Baeza, rhp, Los Angeles Valley CC
47

Kyler Newby, rhp, Mesa (Ariz.) CC
50

ATLANTA
Trevion Griffin, of, Lurleen B. Wallace (Ala.) JC
29

Jamie Richmond, rhp, Texarkana (Texas) CC
31

Philip Britton, Olney Central (Ill.) JC
36

Josh Ward, rhp, Chipola (Fla.) JCC
37

Jesse Warren, lhp, Rockingham (N.C.) CC
45

Marcus Covington, rhp, Louisburg (N.C.) CC
46

BOSTON
Michael Jones, of, Arizona Western JC
25

CHICAGO-AL
Logan Williamson, lhp, Pensacola (Fla.) JC
27

Nick Walters, lhp, Dixie State (Utah) JC
31

CHICAGO-NL
Jeff Culpepper, of, Gonzaga U.
24

Randy Brown, of, North Florida CC
33

CLEVELAND
Carlton Smith, lhp, Okaloosa-Walton (Fla.) JC
21

Doodle Hicks, lhp, Walters State (Tenn.) CC
28

Jose Chavez, ss, Santa Ana (Calif.) JC
49

COLORADO
Xavier Cedeno, lhp, Miami-Dade CC
31

HOUSTON
Corey Bass, rhp, Pearl River (Miss.) CC
47

KANSAS CITY
Gilbert de la Vara, lhp, Pima (Ariz.) CC
15

O.D. Gonzalez, of, Broward (Fla.) CC
23

LOS ANGELES-AL
Jered Weaver, rhp, Camden (Atlantic)
1

Stephen Marek, rhp, San Jacinto (Texas) JC
40

Grant Harper, of, Los Angeles Harbor JC
44

Abel Nieves, 2b, Middle Georgia JC
50

LOS ANGELES-NL
James Gilbert, rhp, Chabot (Calif.) JC
33

Jeremy Brown, of, Pratt (Kan.) CC
37

MILWAUKEE
Lorenzo Cain, of, Tallahassee (Fla.) CC
17

Darren Ford, of, Chipola (Fla.) JC
18

Matt Kretzschmar, rhp, Rio Hondo (Calif.) JC
22

Josh Louis, rhp, Temple (Texas) JC
42

Derek Miller, lhp, U. of Vermont
47

MINNESOTA
Walter Patton, rhp, Lincoln Land (Ill.) CC
13

Aaron Craig, rhp, Grayson County (Texas) CC
28

Daniel Berg, 3b, Texarkana (Texas) JC
30

Josh Land, of, Okaloosa-Walton (Fla.) CC
38

Danny Santiesteban, of, Palm Beach (Fla.) CC
39

NEW YORK-NL
Jake Harrington, rhp, Northeastern (Colo.) CC
36

Jacob Ruckle, rhp, Chandler-Gilbert (Ariz.) JC
41

NEW YORK-AL
Grant Duff, rhp, JC of the Sequoias (Calif.)
31

Michael Dunn, 1b, CC of Southern Nevada
33

Juan Velazquez, rhp, Grossmont (Calif.) JC
46

PHILADELPHIA
Chris Raulinaitis, rhp, Sacramento CC
28

Alex McEnaney, rhp, Palm Beach (Fla.) CC
34

PITTSBURGH
Brad Clapp, rhp, Bellevue (Wash.) CC
19

SAN DIEGO
Kyle Blanks, 1b, Yavapai (Ariz.) JC
42

SAN FRANCISCO
Ryan Shaver, rhp, Lower Columbia (Wash.) JC
29

Morgan Brinson, rhp, Kwantlen (B.C.) JC
32

David Quinowski, lhp, Riverside (Calif.) CC
46

Michael Santoro, of, Northern Illinois U.
49

SEATTLE
Michael Saunders, 3b, Tallahassee (Fla.) CC
11

Rollie Gibson, lhp, Fresno CC
30

Michael Schilling, rhp, Fresno CC
40

Erwin Jacobo, 3b, Palm Beach (Fla.) CC
42

TAMPA BAY
Woods Fines, rhp, Louisburg (N.C.) JC
14

Jimmy Scholzen, ss, Dixie State (Utah) JC
18

Matt Fields, 1b, Green River (Wash.) CC
44

TEXAS
Zach Phillips, rhp, Sacramento CC
23

Brett Zamzow, rhp, Navarro (Texas) CC
28

Joe Kemp, of, Indiana U.
42

Kellan McConnell, rhp, Santa Clara U.
47

TORONTO
Jesse Litsch, rhp, South Florida CC
24

WASHINGTON
Brian Peacock, c, Manatee (Fla.) CC
39

Aronchis
06-03-2005, 03:18 AM
Markakis wasn't signed because he wanted 2 million from the Reds, which I felt wasn't a good deal for him. It all turned out for the best.

New Fever
06-03-2005, 04:46 AM
That's not true he wanted 1.75 million and the Reds offered him 1.5 million, he is Baltimore's top prospect, how did that turn out well?

jmcclain19
06-03-2005, 05:46 AM
I was pining for them to sign Loo, but we have no way of knowing how much money he was asking for. He could have been saying "give me 1-2 million" and the Reds balked.

Although I am curious as to why the Reds were one of only six teams who didn't see fit to sign a single draft and follow. Perhaps a statement of how bad the teams draft really was?

Aronchis
06-03-2005, 01:48 PM
That's not true he wanted 1.75 million and the Reds offered him 1.5 million, he is Baltimore's top prospect, how did that turn out well?

1.75 million, 2 million, who cares, it could have been 1.8 million. Unless you have a big amount of cash hanging around, you can't sign him and the 1st round pick. Calling Markakis the Orioles "top prospect" is stretching it.

RedsIn07
06-03-2005, 01:58 PM
Calling Markakis the Orioles "top prospect" is stretching it.
He is according to Baseball America:
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/features/04top10s/orioles.html

princeton
06-03-2005, 02:00 PM
That's not true he wanted 1.75 million and the Reds offered him 1.5 million, he is Baltimore's top prospect, how did that turn out well?

you're right, and it turned out that he was correct that he was worth it

also, the Milton contract showed that we had the cash to sign not just Markakis but Bailey or even Weaver.

tough to see the team punt on second down

Aronchis
06-03-2005, 02:03 PM
you're right, and it turned out that he was correct that he was worth it

also, the Milton contract showed that we had the cash to sign not just Markakis but Bailey or even Weaver.

tough to see the team punt on second down

Uh, Markakis was the 2003 drafting period, not 04. All the Milton signing proves is that the Reds had alot of free cash during the 04-05 offseason.

princeton
06-03-2005, 02:09 PM
All the Milton signing proves is that the Reds had alot of free cash during the 04-05 offseason.

it proves they had enough cash to sign Weaver

Aronchis
06-03-2005, 02:12 PM
it proves they had enough cash to sign Weaver

True, but that doesn't mean they wanted him.

princeton
06-03-2005, 02:28 PM
True, but that doesn't mean they wanted him.

that's not it, because the Reds sign guys that they don't really want all the time. Larkin signed in '04, Jimenez and probably Milton in '05. We settle.

no, they wanted Weaver, because he was what they needed, and were scared by Weaver, because maybe he wouldn't be what they needed. The Reds are too scared to spend just a bit more to try the gourmet sauce, because maybe it'll taste like Ragu.

so instead we buy a lot of Ragu and complain about it

Aronchis
06-03-2005, 02:37 PM
that's not it, because the Reds sign guys that they don't really want all the time. Larkin signed in '04, Jimenez and probably Milton in '05. We settle.

no, they wanted Weaver, because he was what they needed, and were scared by Weaver, because maybe he wouldn't be what they needed. The Reds are too scared to spend just a bit more to try the gourmet sauce, because maybe it'll taste like Ragu.

so instead we buy a lot of Ragu and complain about it

No, that is it. You don't have a clue if they wanted Weaver or not. I don't think they did. Bailey is actually what the Reds need, though Bailey 3 years from now which was the paradox for the Reds last year. Do you go with a lesser arm who is ready to be a good pitcher now with a good chance, or the HS phenom who "may" finally give you that number 1 pitcher? Money may have helped sway the issue, but I think DanO's desire for ceiling out of his picks just follow his MO and may have been one of the few "rules" DanO put on Terry Renyolds when picking that 1st rounder. Renyolds didn't draft many HS pitchers with 1st round picks during his tenure with the Dodgers.

We wanna act like DanO's group know what they are doing. But what if they really don't?

princeton
06-03-2005, 02:44 PM
You don't have a clue if they wanted Weaver or not. I don't think they did.

you should read those two sentences and think a little bit about them :D

New Fever
06-03-2005, 02:46 PM
So your argument is the Reds don't know what they are doing? Which everyone agrees on, but you forget that Weaver was one of the top 2 or 3 rated players in the draft. Every orginization would have took him if they didn't fear not signing him, I don't see how you can argue that.

Aronchis
06-03-2005, 03:10 PM
So your argument is the Reds don't know what they are doing? Which everyone agrees on, but you forget that Weaver was one of the top 2 or 3 rated players in the draft. Every orginization would have took him if they didn't fear not signing him, I don't see how you can argue that.

Based on polish and readiness to fullfill ceiling Weaver was a top 3 pick. Bailey gives the Reds a excuse why not to draft him. Why blow 4-5 million on a lesser arm when you can train a better arm for half the price. In other words, a easy out and gives rational that you selected "BPA".

princeton
06-03-2005, 03:17 PM
Based on polish and readiness to fullfill ceiling Weaver was a top 3 pick. Bailey gives the Reds a excuse why not to draft him. Why blow 4-5 million on a lesser arm when you can train a better arm for half the price. In other words, a easy out and gives rational that you selected "BPA".

yup, he's Ragu. We'll add chicken, spices, we'll wait a L-O-N-G time, and it'll taste the same. Not like the last five times when we ruined it-- can't really say why we ruined it, but we're just due for some luck.

SplitFinger
06-03-2005, 03:18 PM
The Reds were scared to waste all the money on a player that might not live to expectations like they did with Grueler and Howington and didnt want to waste a pick like they did with Sowers. We needed to make sure we signed this years draft pick.

If we drafted Weaver and he didnt sign that would be 4 out of 5 first round picks not worth anything. The shame DanO wouldve taken for that would DEFINITELY have not been worth it. The was a risk DanO didnt want to take for his own sake.

REDREAD
06-03-2005, 03:22 PM
Although I am curious as to why the Reds were one of only six teams who didn't see fit to sign a single draft and follow. Perhaps a statement of how bad the teams draft really was?

I don't think the Reds have ever signed a high profile draft and follow. (I really don't count Mosely, as that was a pre-arranged deal to wait until the next fiscal year to make Allen happy).

I remember them maybe signing 3-5 very minor draft and follows over the past 10 years, but I think they were all 50k or less.

princeton
06-03-2005, 03:22 PM
The Reds were scared.

exactly

princeton
06-03-2005, 03:24 PM
I don't think the Reds have ever signed a high profile draft and follow. (I really don't count Mosely, as that was a pre-arranged deal to wait until the next fiscal year to make Allen happy).

I remember them maybe signing 3-5 very minor draft and follows over the past 10 years, but I think they were all 50k or less.

O'Brien took the Draft-and-follow to its current popularity when he got Daryl Kile and several others

New Fever
06-03-2005, 03:25 PM
So you are saying that Bailey is a safer bet than Weaver, a college arm which everyone says is the closest to the majors. Maybe money wise but didn't the Reds sshow you they had money this winter. The Reds org. is just backwards they sign fill-in players when the money should go to the draft, Can the Reds please get a freakin plan!!! :help:

The_jbh
06-03-2005, 03:43 PM
Scott Boras Scott Boras Scott Boras...

Yep your right, Bailey was a safer bet...

Aronchis
06-03-2005, 03:45 PM
So you are saying that Bailey is a safer bet than Weaver, a college arm which everyone says is the closest to the majors. Maybe money wise but didn't the Reds sshow you they had money this winter. The Reds org. is just backwards they sign fill-in players when the money should go to the draft, Can the Reds please get a freakin plan!!! :help:

Nope, you totally misread. Weaver is the safer bet, Bailey is the better talent. In other words, IF(read this word please) he pans out, he will be a better pitcher than Weaver. IMO, the Reds easily could have waited out Weaver and signed him. They didn't believe he was worth the wait and they went another way.

jmcclain19
06-03-2005, 09:36 PM
BTW - Allan Simpson of Baseball America questioned how the Reds could leave out signing Loo today in his draft chat.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/chat/050603as.html




Allan Simpson: We've identified 65 draft-and-follows who have signed so far, including San Jacinto (Texas) righthander Stephen Marek, the No. 1-ranked guy on our list. He got $800,000 from the Angels. Omar Aguilar (Giants, 8th) and Reinaldo Alicano (Indians, 10th) were the two highest-drafted DFE's from '04, and neither signed--though it really wasn't a big surprise. Aguilar, who was at 98 mph in the fall, came down with a sore arm this spring. To me, the biggest surprise was the Reds not signing Milton Loo, a Hawaiian kid they drafted in the 17th round a year ago that really came on this spring at Yavapai (Ariz.) Junior College. He could resurface Tuesday in the fourth or fifth round.

TC81190
06-03-2005, 09:37 PM
Yeah, I'm not suprised. I mean - c'mon, the Reds, sign talent? Not likely!

Marc D
06-03-2005, 10:00 PM
Although I am curious as to why the Reds were one of only six teams who didn't see fit to sign a single draft and follow. Perhaps a statement of how bad the teams draft really was?

Draft and follow by Reds standards seems to be draft the marginal talent early, sign them cheap and follow their minor league careers untill they go get a job somewhere. :(

jmcclain19
06-04-2005, 02:25 PM
According to a Hawaii newspaper, Loo played only 3B this season.

I wonder if that has anything to do with him not being signed - don't really know just grasping for straws with this one

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Jun/04/sp/sp20p.html


Moloka'i's Loo feted

Milton Loo of Moloka'i was an honorable mention selection for the NJCAA Division I Baseball All-America team, according to the National Junior College Athletic Association Web site.

The 2004 graduate of Moloka'i High played for Yavapai College in Prescott, Ariz. He batted .404 with 45 runs and 21 stolen bases in his first season with the JC. He was a first-team pick for the Arizona Community College Athletic Conference as an infielder.

Loo, a shortstop all his life while on Moloka'i, primarily played third base this past season. Another player from Hawai'i, Baldwin graduate Gered Mochizuki, was the starting shortstop. Yavapai coach Sky Smeltzer said Mochizuki will be transferring to Central Missouri State.

Loo was drafted in the 17th round by the Cincinnati Reds in last year's major league draft and is expected to be picked within the first five rounds Tuesday, the first of two days of the draft.

M2
06-04-2005, 02:41 PM
Do you go with a lesser arm

The Reds did go with the lesser arm. His name is Homer Bailey.


yup, he's Ragu. We'll add chicken, spices, we'll wait a L-O-N-G time, and it'll taste the same. Not like the last five times when we ruined it-- can't really say why we ruined it, but we're just due for some luck.

Exactly. Probably the main problem is that Ragu tastes like cardboard ... but you can buy family size jars of it cheap at Costco.

mamoahina
06-05-2005, 04:50 PM
Today's Honolulu Advertiser had the following article about Milton.


http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2005/Jun/05/sp/sp01p.html

Hawai'i's highest high school draft pick from a year ago is projected to be the first player with ties to the state picked in this week's Major League Baseball First-Year Player Draft.

Moloka'i's Milton Loo, who earned junior college All-America honorable mention at Yavapai College in Arizona this season, is projected to be picked within the first five rounds, scouts told The Advertiser. Baseball America Online gives him a national ranking of 176th of its top 200 projected selections.

Loo was picked in the 17th round (the 489th overall pick) last year out of Moloka'i High. He was one of five Hawai'i high school players picked last year, but the highest among the group. He went to Yavapai instead. Since he attended a JC, the Reds still had signing "control" of Loo up until last Monday. Loo said he declined an offer of $200,000, or about the amount of a third- or fourth-round pick. He has indicated a desire to return to Yavapai.

"I decided on my own I needed one more year of college before I can become a pro player," Loo said.

But he hasn't totally ruled out signing.

"If they meet or exceed what I'm looking for, I just might sign," said Loo, who did not reveal what amount would sway his decision to sign.

Loo helped his stock with an impressive season at Yavapai, a member of the Arizona Community College Athletic Conference, an all-wood bat league.

A shortstop all his life, Loo played primarily at third base at Yavapai because the Roughriders' shortstop position was filled by another Hawai'i product in Gered Mochizuki, a 2003 graduate of Baldwin. (Mochizuki was a 49th-round pick of the Kansas City Royals in 2003.)

Loo didn't miss a beat making the transition from aluminum to wooden bats. He batted .404 with 14 doubles, six triples and five home runs with 38 RBIs. He had 21 steals in 24 attempts. He recently earned honorable mention for the NJCAA Division I All-America team.

"He has power, speed, he hits for average and is a very good defensive player," Yavapai coach Sky Smeltzer said. "He's worked on his body to become a five-tool player."

The adjustment from aluminum to wooden bats was a key transition. It was the first time he used wood, considered harder to hit with because there is less room for error when attempting to make solid contact.

"I like wood way better than metal bats," Loo said. "I never want to go back to metal bats. It feels better. Metal bats sting. You're not using your own strength; you can mis-hit the ball and it will still go far. I like that challenge. You've got to earn your hits (with wooden bats)."

Smeltzer said Loo adjusted so well because "he's very coachable."

"He understands how to use the entire field (when hitting)," Smeltzer said. "He's strong and has a nice stroke."

Loo is one of seven players from Moloka'i who have been drafted. Four signed, but all out of junior colleges (Keith Lu'uloa in 1993, Nathan Starkey and Michael McCutcheon in 1996 and Miles Lu'uloa in 1999). Kekoa Colon did not sign out of high school. Keahi Rawlins went to the University of Hawai'i after Philadelphia picked him in the 36th round in 2002.

With a population of about 7,000, everyone knows just about everyone on the Friendly Isle, Loo said. So it was easy to find role models, such as those drafted before him.

"I really looked up to them as role models," Loo said of previous Moloka'i players who were drafted. "The Lu'uloa brothers, Miles and Keith, they were shortstops. We always used to hear the stories about how they played. Miles used to come to our practices (at Moloka'i High) and he would help us."

jmcclain19
06-05-2005, 05:03 PM
If thats the case, then you can't blame the Reds.

Maybe if the Reds are lucky, he'll still be there in the middle rounds and they can pick him up to do a draft and follow again. Keep this kid a Red. Sounds like he has his head on right.

Unassisted
01-25-2006, 11:10 AM
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060125/SPORTS16/601250336/1064/SPORTS


Moloka'i's Loo gets JC honors

Moloka'i High graduates received nice reviews in Baseball America's college previews. Milton Loo ('04), of Yavapai College(Prescott, Ariz.) was picked by the publication as a preseason JC All-America shortstop, as well as the preseason pick as Player of the Year. Loo was drafted in the ninth round by the Cincinnati Reds last June, but did not sign. Also, Brigham Young catcher Apana Nakayama ('00) was listed as the player with the "Best Strike-Zone Discipline" in the Best Tools section of the publication's Mountain West Conference preview.

corkedbat
01-25-2006, 12:07 PM
So is he a draft-and-follow again this year?

lollipopcurve
01-25-2006, 12:11 PM
So is he a draft-and-follow again this year?

Yes, because he's still in JC. A nice choice in the 9th round last year, in my opinion. I hope they sign him pre-06 draft.

Superdude
01-25-2006, 05:27 PM
Can we still sign Donnie Ecker or do we have to draft him again? We picked him in 2004, but some scout said on scout.com that we still could sign him. Is that true because he's got some scary potential.