BoSox Trade Rumor!!

[GridironGrace]

IM in an online sports community for online Gaming for Play Station 2. MVP 2005 etc.

Anyways i have freinds from boston. And i've confirmed this with 3 of them.

Anyways closer to the deadline it seems that the BoSox will be trying hard to get Dunn or Casey.

Anyone else Caught Wind of this?

Casey maybe but Dunn? lol

btw this is my first created post.

[Ravenlord]

Epstein after Casey?

[GridironGrace]

Well the talks from my freinds is they REALLY want Dunn, but are also lookin at Casey in case they cant get Dunn.

[traderumor]

Epstein after Casey?Yea, at least Mienkeweicz (sp) had a glove, but I could see him envisioning Casey lobbing doubles off the green monster.

[TC81190]

They'll grab Casey. But then, where will he bat?

[schroomytunes]

I'd trade Casey for Arroyo and Shoppach. We need pitching and catching. We can have Shoppach for sure, not sure about Arroyo though, but I'd play hardball to get those two, would even be tempted to Shoppach and Youkoulis, as it clears salary to resign Dunn longterm, but I still push for Arroyo.

[GridironGrace]

Arroyo came to mind while talking to these crazy bostonites lol.

Rumor is which ever one they get will go right into a starting role at 1B and bat around 5th or 6th

[Red Leader]

I'd take Hanley Ramirez and Shoppach for Casey. That's right, no pitching prospects.

Having Hanley Ramirez at SS is the only legitimate reason for moving Lopez to 2B, he's good.

We need a catching prospect. I don't like Shoppach's K rate (he averages I think over 1K per 9 in the minors), but he is good defensively and can hit.

and we really need to shed Casey's 8.5M due next year with the terrible signings of Milton and Wilson.

However, with the presence of DanO's boyfriend, Andy Machado, I doubt Ramirez will be targeted.

[klw]

I believe Peter Gammons has mentioned the Sox being interested in both of them. He has mentioned the Casey trade more than a few times. I only heard the Dunn reference once. I don't know if that is the origin of things. I have not heard anything in RI about it. WEEI and others have been all over Kevin Millar's performance but the focus appears to be on whether Olerud should replace him for at least a short spell as opposed to looking outside the organization.

[TC81190]

Dunn will be a little unhappy if they decide to make him the 1B. I will be less than happy if DUnn becomes a 5-6 hole hitter for many years in Boston. :angry:

[savafan]

Wouldn't they wait first and see how Olerud works out?

[GridironGrace]

Both the bosox you mentioned were what one of my freinds were saying we'd get. And frankly if olerud is one of them im not sure i'd like the deal regardless.

[Red Leader]

Arroyo came to mind while talking to these crazy bostonites lol.

Rumor is which ever one they get will go right into a starting role at 1B and bat around 5th or 6th

With BOS, I could see Theo dropping Adam in the 3 spot ahead of Manny and Ortiz because of his OB skills (he's smart)

Dunn
Manny
Ortiz

YIKES!!

[Ravenlord]

Dunn will be a little unhappy if they decide to make him the 1B. I will be less than happy if DUnn becomes a 5-6 hole hitter for many years in Boston. :angry:i think Dunn would be hitting 4th or 2nd in Boston.

[klw]

Shoppach and Ramirez would be very nice though I doubt both. Anybody know anything about Anibel Snachez. He is BBA's Prospect Hot Sheet. Arroyo and Shoppach was my though when I first heard Gammons awhile back. One of the local papers was speculating on the Sox looking for a frontline starter (Isn't everyone) so I would be surprised if they gave up Arroyo. Casey makes sense for Boston. Doubles off the monster as well as Millar being in the last year of his contract. Casey gives them another year.

[Blimpie]

I believe Peter Gammons has mentioned the Sox being interested in both of them. He has mentioned the Casey trade more than a few times. I only heard the Dunn reference once. I don't know if that is the origin of things. I have not heard anything in RI about it. WEEI and others have been all over Kevin Millar's performance but the focus appears to be on whether Olerud should replace him for at least a short spell as opposed to looking outside the organization.Maybe this week...Two weeks ago Gammons was SURE Casey would be soon packing his bags for the LA Dodgers. So, there THAT is.... :help:

[GridironGrace]

"STATMENT RETRACTED"

I like dunn at #3 idea. But casey would be 5 or 6. And another thing you gotta think about is the Sox aint gonnna change the lineup too much

[TC81190]

BTW, Dunn goes for PITCHING ONLY.

At the core of the deal, anyway.

[Ravenlord]

20 mins 100 views lol wheres the love?
out of Rep points to give at the moment.

[BrooklynRedz]

With BOS, I could see Theo dropping Adam in the 3 spot ahead of Manny and Ortiz because of his OB skills (he's smart)

Dunn
Manny
Ortiz

YIKES!!

I've never owned a Red Sox hat before...

[Blimpie]

out of Rep points to give at the moment.Let me get this straight, you mean I can actually get Rep points for posting about trade rumors heard while playing MVP Baseball on PS2 online? All this time I have been actually thinking about REAL stuff prior to posting threads... Stupid Blimpie! :bang: Stupid Blimpie! :bang:

[OnBaseMachine]

I don't want Dunn to leave, but if he does I hope it's to Boston. Imagine how many homers he would hit with that short porch in right and with Manny and Ortiz protecting him.

[Buckeye33]

Arroyo and Shoppach would be good enough for me for Casey.

Youkilis still intrigues me a lot. If he's ever given a legit chance I think he could hit .290/.400/.520 but in the NL he obviously would have to play 3B and that would stall EE.

Shoppach and Youkilis for Casey? I'd still do it and figure out what to do with the EE/Youkilis situation later.

[klw]

Apparently this has been getting discussed in Red Sox land for awhile.

http://www.redsoxnation.net/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t15219.html

[Buckeye33]

Let me get this straight, you mean I can actually get Rep points for posting about trade rumors heard while playing MVP Baseball on PS2 online? All this time I have been actually thinking about REAL stuff prior to posting threads... Stupid Blimpie! :bang: Stupid Blimpie! :bang:

I agree with this statement 100%.

:)

[GridironGrace]

Let me get this straight, you mean I can actually get Rep points for posting about trade rumors heard while playing MVP Baseball on PS2 online? All this time I have been actually thinking about REAL stuff prior to posting threads... Stupid Blimpie! :bang: Stupid Blimpie! :bang:

Ive heard this from 3 die had sox fans... not during a game...on AIM in conversation. To my understanding it is the talk on thier radio stations and such. We keep each other informed about these things, good freinds, Atleast this is a real rumor not wishful thinking or trying to pawn off our players lmfao

This is a Legit rumor, atleast in boston

So knock me for my resources all you want, atleast i have some!

[Blimpie]

Ive heard this from 3 die had sox fans... not during a game...on AIM in conversation. To my understanding it is the talk on thier radio stations and such. We keep each other informed about these things, good freinds, Atleast this is a real rumor not wishful thinking or trying to pawn off our players lmfao

This is a Legit rumor, atleast in bostonWell then...I see. It should just be a matter of finalizing the paperwork, I guess.

[OldXOhio]

I believe Peter Gammons has mentioned the Sox being interested in both of them. He has mentioned the Casey trade more than a few times. I only heard the Dunn reference once. I don't know if that is the origin of things. I have not heard anything in RI about it. WEEI and others have been all over Kevin Millar's performance but the focus appears to be on whether Olerud should replace him for at least a short spell as opposed to looking outside the organization.

Gammons persistent coining of Casey as "well respected" tells me that perhaps a team like the bosox have some interest.

[Buckeye33]

I don't want Dunn to leave, but if he does I hope it's to Boston. Imagine how many homers he would hit with that short porch in right and with Manny and Ortiz protecting him.

Actually, the only part of RF in Boston that is short is if you pull it directly down the line to the Pesky Poll. It shoots out very quickly to 380' in pretty much straight away right field.

[Ravenlord]

Let me get this straight, you mean I can actually get Rep points for posting about trade rumors heard while playing MVP Baseball on PS2 online? All this time I have been actually thinking about REAL stuff prior to posting threads... Stupid Blimpie! :bang: Stupid Blimpie! :bang:it's not hard to get rep points from me...all you have to do is

1. start a thread that causes good discussion

2. make a well thought out post

3. make an insightful post

4. make me laugh

in fact, i gave you some yesterday for number 2.

[GridironGrace]

And what exactly is your problem?

LOL. ITS a RUMOR. And a very Potent one at that. As one said b4 its on the sox forums, its on thier radio stations, its mentioned durning thier games. Your talking like im some kid , or that my resources are kids. we are all mid 20's and having adult coverstaion about baseball. So, if all ur input to this thread is to bash me for Making redszone aware of a trade rumor....A REAL TRADE RUMOR... regardless of my resource, i dont see how your post's have any effect on the thread other then to bash me lmfao

Grow uP?

EDIT: back to the discusion.. Whats some other peeps from boston we could use/need? I like the prospect catcher..checked him out has potential for us. RP's???

[Blimpie]

And what exactly is your problem?

LOL. ITS a RUMOR. And a very Potent one at that. As one said b4 its on the sox forums, its on thier radio stations, its mentioned durning thier games. Your talking like im some kid , or that my resources are kids. we are all mid 20's and having adult coverstaion about baseball. So, if all ur input to this thread is to bash me for Making redszone aware of a trade rumor....A REAL TRADE RUMOR... regardless of my resource, i dont see how your post's have any effect on the thread other then to bash me lmfao

Grow uP?Well, you asked--so I'll answer. I've got no problem whatsoever with anyone on this board starting any type of threads. My problem is with starting a trade rumor thread with sources likes this...

http://us.ent4.yimg.com/tv.yahoo.com/images/he/photo/tv_pix/nbc/saturday_night_live_episode_photos/_group_photos/jimmy_fallon28.jpg

and then to follow up with statements like this...


20 mins 100 views lol wheres the love?
Which is apparently nothing more than gratuitous begging for Rep points that many of us around here try to earn with a more subtle approach.

Just sayin.

[The_jbh]

I would definately take Ramirez and Jon Lester for Casey. Ramirez is a 5 tool talent and i would support lopez' move to SS if he came around. He has pretty good plate discipline, a solid arm good range, but streaky in the field much like Eddy E. He has the tools in the field but has to put them together. He is probaby a good year away still which is fine. I think Freel and Lopez should be the middle infield until he arrives. Ramirez is pretty consistent too with his numbers. In AA he is batting .99 with a .351 OBP 2 HRs 7 triples at 14 SBs. last year he was around the same exact numbers between High A and AA.


Lester is a 6-3 Lefty drafted in the 3rd round in 2002. He throws in the 92-93 range topping out at 95. He doesnt have the nastiest stuff so he projects as a middle of the rotation guy, but Ramirez is one of the top prospects in baseball so what can u expect.




Also if this happens, i would say that Griffey gets moved to 1B in the offseason because of Dunns distaste for 1B.

[klw]

For what is worth I have not heard any discussion of this on either WEEI out of Boston or the Providence sports talk station but that is not to say I haven't missed it.

[GridironGrace]

Look im excited....first post i ever started has really fired up and got good. lol, I really dont care about the Rep ill be reading here and posting here regardless of rep points i have.

And btw. The main source of this rumor is from the #1 sports radio station AM 850 WEEI, dude who works for them/boston globe and espn.com sean mcadam

[919191]

20 mins 100 views lol wheres the love?

I like dunn at #3 idea. But casey would be 5 or 6. And another thing you gotta think about is the Sox aint gonnna change the lineup too much

I so hate it when someone asks for rep points. Makes me wanna go all neg. :angry:

[westofyou]

I'm looking for the return of Petagine and maybe Reggie Jefferson's old uniform.

[GridironGrace]

Not once did i ask for points... i said "where's the love" as in how bout a "HEY GOOD FIND" or "HEY GOOD THREAD" first thread i seen in weeks about a trade that is atleast got a chance of happening

edit: matter of fact....dont give me ANY REP POINTS FOR THIS... i dont want em for this post.

I'll get some in time i just wanna discuss the reds, and the # of points i have doesnt change the fact that i can do that.

[919191]

Well sorry if I misunderstood, but there are a few jokers in here who "love" rep points.

[MartyFan]

Not once did i ask for points... i said "where's the love" as in how bout a "HEY GOOD FIND" or "HEY GOOD THREAD" first thread i seen in weeks about a trade that is atleast got a chance of happening

Right...Obviously you are not in sales.

[Blimpie]

http://www.publicrelations.nu/images/pat.jpg

[The_jbh]

ANYWAYS... back to the topic...

[GridironGrace]

I dont "love" rep points....far from it. If i get em ...great...if not oh well, all i do is come here and do what forums are for.....discuss the reds

We all know the bosox need/want a 1B. I think Casey is the person they'll end up with if they get either of them. Id love to see Arroyo but dont think they'll cut lose of him.

Millar has been mentioned? Could he help us?

[Buckeye33]

I would definately take Ramirez and Jon Lester for Casey. Ramirez is a 5 tool talent and i would support lopez' move to SS if he came around. He has pretty good plate discipline, a solid arm good range, but streaky in the field much like Eddy E. He has the tools in the field but has to put them together. He is probaby a good year away still which is fine. I think Freel and Lopez should be the middle infield until he arrives. Ramirez is pretty consistent too with his numbers. In AA he is batting .99 with a .351 OBP 2 HRs 7 triples at 14 SBs. last year he was around the same exact numbers between High A and AA.


Lester is a 6-3 Lefty drafted in the 3rd round in 2002. He throws in the 92-93 range topping out at 95. He doesnt have the nastiest stuff so he projects as a middle of the rotation guy, but Ramirez is one of the top prospects in baseball so what can u expect.

The only thing wrong with that trade is that the Red Sox would probably laugh on the phone while DO was offering it. Ramirez is becoming a cult figure in the minds of Red Sox fans. He is going to be very good, but is blocked by Renteria. The Red Sox should allow him to play 2B right now imo.

I believe Lester could be had in a deal for Casey, and especially for Dunn.

For Casey: Any 2 of Shoppach, Lester, Youkilis, Arroyo

For Dunn: Ramirez, Shoppach, Arroyo or Papelbon, Lester Nothing less.

[OnBaseMachine]

Actually, the only part of RF in Boston that is short is if you pull it directly down the line to the Pesky Poll. It shoots out very quickly to 380' in pretty much straight away right field.

Good point.

Adam Dunn hit chart (http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_individual_player_hitting_chart.jsp?playerID=2 76055&statType=1)

But look at his flyouts on the chart. I can count atleast 3 flyouts in the GAB that would have likely been homeruns or doubles off the Green Monster.

[zombie-a-go-go]

Everyone quit your goofy-arse bickering. You're giving me a damn headache.

Anyway, the number one reason to trade Case is to open up 1B and 8.5 million for Dunn and an LTC. I'm sure even Obie can figure that out.

Well, I'm not totally sure. ;)

[919191]

Can we give Obie negs?

[OnBaseMachine]

Can we give Obie negs?

Nope. I've tried numerous times but to no avail.

[The_jbh]

Remeber that Dunn doesn't like 1B though. I dont think hes gonna be as enthused about a longterm deal at 1B as we are.


I still think Ramirez is the guy we need to get for either casey or dunn. Shoppach doesnt impress me at all and im not sure why u guys are enthralled. He's very good defensively but hits less than LaRue. I'd much rather draft Clement and hope he shoots through the system. Maybe Shoppach and one of the SS because im not a LaRue fan but o well

If they refuse Ramirez, 3 of the Bo Sox top 10 prospects are SS. I'd still want Lester and one of those two other guys. I'll post their Baseball America layouts...

6. DUSTIN PEDROIA, ss Age: 21 B-T: R-R Ht: 5-8 Wt: 180
Drafted: Arizona State, 2004 (2nd round) Signed by: Dan Madsen


Background: Pedroia represents one extreme of the tools vs. performance debate. He's not physically gifted, but he wins. A two-time All-American at Arizona State, he had no problem adjusting to Class A in his pro debut. He batted a combined .357 and didn't commit an error in 42 games.

Strengths: Pedroia has tremendous ability to handle the bat and control the strike zone, making him a candidate to bat second in a big league lineup. His hands and fundamentals are excellent at shortstop, and the Red Sox believe he'll be able to stay at that position. He enhances his average speed with uncanny instincts.

Weaknesses: Several scouts have questioned whether Pedroia has enough arm and range to play shortstop. The presence of Hanley Ramirez in the system may make that question moot. Pedroia never will be a home run threat, though he'll have some gap power.

The Future: Pedroia may start his first full season in Double-A. He could be Boston's next Jody Reed, who began his big league career at shortstop before moving to second base.

Keep Lopez at SS and have him at 2b?

7. LUIS SOTO, ss Age: 19 B-T: B-R Ht: 6-1 Wt: 180
Signed: Dominican Republic, 2003 Signed by: Louie Eljaua


Background: Former international scouting director Louie Eljaua left to become a Pirates special assistant in January 2004, but he left Soto as a going-away present. Signed for $500,000 just before Eljaua departed, Soto rated as the Gulf Coast League's top prospect in his pro debut.

Strengths: Boston's minor league instructors have been told not to touch Soto's swing. He has great hand-eye coordination, quick hands and a fluid stroke from both sides of the plate. He has more power potential than any hitter in the system, with the chance to become a 30-homer hitter. His strong arm is his best defensive tool, and he also has good speed. He adapted well and picked up English quickly in his first year in the United States.

Weaknesses: While Soto has natural actions at shortstop, his instincts and fundamentals lag behind because he has limited game experience. He makes contact so easily that he won't draw many walks unless he becomes much more patient.

The Future: With a number of shortstops ahead of him in the system, Soto likely will begin 2005 in extended spring training before heading to short-season Lowell in June. If Hanley Ramirez indeed is Boston's shortstop of the future, Soto could move to third base.


2004 Club (Class) AVG OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB
GCL Red Sox (R) .261 .289 .470 134 22 35 9 2 5 16 5 22 4

[GridironGrace]

Very nice post.... i like the outlook and scouting report on Soto. Get him lol Solid SS or 2B later on atleast. Him or Lopez at SS and the other at 2B would make for a nice middle IF

[The_jbh]

i'll stand correct on shoppach looking at his current stats. He his hitting .279 with a .392 OBP... History would say he wont keep that up but he does hit for LaRue like power so with better defense he would be an improvemetn that is pretty close to ready. Maybe deal LaRue at the deadline or nontender him next year if we got SHopach

[SplitFinger]

Redsox Pitching Prospects to look at:

Jon Papelbon (#91 on Baseball America's Top 100 Prospect List)
24 years old
AA Portland Sea Dogs- record 3-2, 2.10 ERA, 15 BB and 48 K, 7 HR in 55.2 IP
-Scouting Report: Good pitcher's build with a live arm and solid delivery. Fastball has been clocked up to 95 mph, typically hitting the low-90s with great command. Very good slider and changeup, as well as a slurve curveball. All can be thrown for strikes, and Papelbon has improved his consistency with these pitches. Papelbon also added a splitter to his arsenal in the spring of 2005, after some tutoring from Curt Schilling. Projects as a frontline starter. - soxprospects.com

Jon Lester
21 years old
AA Portland Sea Dogs- record 2-1 , 3.27 ERA, 18 BB and 53 K, 4 HR in 52.1 IP
-Scouting Report: Very athletic lefty - fastball reaches low 90's, with an above-average change-up, along with a curveball that is slowly improving. Has an easy delivery motion which has helped him to a fantastic sophomore season. Lester also throws a cut fastball, a changeup, and a curveball. He currently projects as a middle-rotation starter, but his ceiling is very high if he can improve his secondary pitches. - soxprospects.com


Anibal Sanchez
21 Years Old
Scouting Report: Sanchez throws a mid-90s fastball with excellent control and great movement. Also throws a fantastic curveball and a plus changeup. Very high ceiling, but lack of experience may currently deter any high projections. - spxprospects.com

Abe Alvarez
22 Years old
Scouting Report: Tall and lanky lefty. Has been compared to Orel Hershiser and Jamie Moyer. Changes speeds well and hits his spots with consistency. Fastball isn't fantastic, topping out in the mid to high 80s, but throws all of his pitches with pinpoint control. Best changeup and command in the Sox farm system. Curveball needs some work. Very mature, knows what he needs to do to prepare for each game. Very focused. Legally blind in his left eye. Wears his hat to the side to balance the lighting in his blind eye - not as a fashion statement. -soxprospects.com

Andrew Dobies
22 Years old
-Scouting Report: Dobies is a fierce competitor with a nice delivery. Fastball hits the high 80s, which is varied by an excellent changeup and a decent slider. He also throws a nice cutter as an out pitch. Doesn’t walk too many batters.
-soxprospects.com

[BoSox4Life]

I am indeed Grid's "3 diehard Sox fans." lol I will tell you who you wouldn't be getting in the deal. Ramirez or Pedroia.

We're going to keep Hanley around and prolly move him to CF. We expect not to resign Damon, so they are saying Ramirez will be the CF of the future...we'll see. I can see Pedroia at 2B next season at the earliest....if not, the following year. Mark Bellhorn is going to try to bring us to arbitration. He's going to price himself out of what we would pay him....plus he sucks.

Shoppach I could def see coming to you guys. Tek is signed long-term and Shoppach will not see the light of day in Boston. He was actually brought up to b/c Mirabelli is on the DL (Wooten was up, but then sent down when Shoppach came up). Why you ask? We're obviously trying to showcase his talent you MLB. He's got great potential.

And yes McAdam is a Red Sox "clubhouse insider" and has an inside track on this rumor. Peter Gammons who is on WEEI each week backed up the rumor.

Looks like your guys might be wearing another shade of red come July.... :D

[OnBaseMachine]

I like Pedroia the best out of Boston's middle infield prospects. Pedroia(.313/.388/.506) is outhitting Ramirez(.299/.351/.458) at Portland(Bos AA squad).

Luis Soto is struggling away in low-A ball.

[Red Leader]

If no Hanley Ramirez in a Casey deal, I want Shoppach and Lester for Casey, and obviously, no cash included on our end as well.

[BoSox4Life]

From what I hear, Lester is not in the Red Sox future plans, so that deal would work.

[Buckeye33]

I still think Ramirez is the guy we need to get for either casey or dunn. Shoppach doesnt impress me at all and im not sure why u guys are enthralled. He's very good defensively but hits less than LaRue. I'd much rather draft Clement and hope he shoots through the system. Maybe Shoppach and one of the SS because im not a LaRue fan but o well

I'm not sure where you got the idea that Shoppach hits as bad as LaRue. Since LaRues incredibly good year in 1998 at AA, he has yet to hit above .250 at any other stop.

Shoppach has progressed a level every year so far since being drafted out of Baylor. A at 22, AA at 23, AAA at 24, and now ML at 25.

He had a bad year at AAA last year, but was hitting .279/.392/.571 at the time of his callup this year.

Shoppach should not be the center piece of any deal for Casey or Dunn, but he should be included in either one because the Reds desperatly need a good young hitting catcher, and Shoppach meets that and is good defensivley as well.

EDIT: I see you changed your stance before I finished this post :)

[flyer85]

Casey is the perfect hitter for Fenway. He would pepper balls off the Green Monster. Fenway was made for left handed hitters who inside-out the ball(Wade Boggs). Any other park those opposite field pops to left are outs but they are singles and doubles in Fenway.

[BoSox4Life]

Casey is #1 on the Sox radar. The only downside to Dunn is his Ks. We already have Bellhorn to K, we don't need another one (weren't they both at the top of the most Ks last season?).

In response to the lineup, it would prolly be #3 Oritz, #4 Manny and #5 Casey (or Dunn). Who hits 3/4 has been a hot topic here in Boston, and after all the talk, I don't see anyone but Ortiz or Manny filling those spots.

[MartyFan]

Casey is #1 on the Sox radar. The only downside to Dunn is his Ks. We already have Bellhorn to K, we don't need another one (weren't they both at the top of the most Ks last season?).

In response to the lineup, it would prolly be #3 Oritz, #4 Manny and #5 Casey (or Dunn). Who hits 3/4 has been a hot topic here in Boston, and after all the talk, I don't see anyone but Ortiz or Manny filling those spots.

For sure you would not want Casey in the 3 spot...Double Play king...him in the 5 or 6 spot with the BoSox lineup would be SCARY.

[OldXOhio]

Casey is #1 on the Sox radar. The only downside to Dunn is his Ks. We already have Bellhorn to K, we don't need another one (weren't they both at the top of the most Ks last season?).

In response to the lineup, it would prolly be #3 Oritz, #4 Manny and #5 Casey (or Dunn). Who hits 3/4 has been a hot topic here in Boston, and after all the talk, I don't see anyone but Ortiz or Manny filling those spots.

What's the talk on who Boston would be willing to part with?

[savafan]

I am indeed Grid's "3 diehard Sox fans." lol I will tell you who you wouldn't be getting in the deal. Ramirez or Pedroia.



You're all 3 of them? :confused:

[SplitFinger]

BoSox, know anything about Jon Papelbon?

[GridironGrace]

When i first heard this from my freind the 2 players mentioned were Olerud and Millar

[flyer85]

The best the Reds could hope for if they traded Casey would be Shoppach and another prospect(not a top one, possibly Delcarmen).

[flyer85]

BoSox, know anything about Jon Papelbon?He is big time. Reds won't be getting him. He has pitched lights out at AA this year.

Background: Papelbon worked exclusively in relief during three years at Mississippi State, but the Red Sox drafted him with the idea of making him a starter. After keeping him on tight pitch counts in his pro debut, they turned him loose in 2004. He responded by finished second in the Florida State League in ERA and strikeouts.

Strengths: Papelbon's 92-98 mph fastball isn't the hardest in the system, but it's the best in terms of the combination of velocity, movement and command. He relied almost solely on his fastball early in the year, but learned to trust his slider and changeup as the year went on. All three are plus pitches at times, and he also has a curveball he can throw for strikes. He has a durable frame and did a great job with his offseason conditioning.

[Buckeye33]

When i first heard this from my freind the 2 players mentioned were Olerud and Millar

WHAT?! i seriously hope you misunderstood your friend. Hopefully they were saying that Casey would REPLACE Olerud and Millar.

There's less of a chance Milton won't give up a HR tonight in Coors then the Reds wanting/getting Olerud or Millar for Casey.

Yikes.

[GridironGrace]

He's not all 3... but he's the main source the others got thier info from too....as i came to find out later lol

[luvdozer]

Just an FYI - as a Boston resident, I thought I would try to be helpful and do some local digging on this rumor.

The local boards at Boston.com have tons of posts from people who want to eviscerate Millar and it has become clear that anyone who was EVER a John Olerud fan has put their life on hold and moved to Boston just to advocate for him. However, there is no mention of any possible deal with the Reds.

The definitive source for any in for on the Red Sox is Sons of Sam Horn. Apparently they are having a hell of a time with their site right now (possible hack has lost posts?) but I see no thread mentioning any potential trade at all. Because of the tech problems on SOSH, I would take that with a grain of salt.

All the talk about who on the Sox is tradeable and who isnt is garbage IMHO. Theo will make a deal that he thinks improves the Sox chances of winning. If it needs to be creative, it will be. If he thinks he needs to gamble - he will. Anything is possible.

[Chip R]

I think the Reds would trade Dunn before they traded Casey.

[GridironGrace]

NO the olerud millar are a few they would look to trade i guess, he could best explain that.

as far as getting casey or dunn i dont think anything's been said on who they would send our way

out a bit check back later peace have fun c4 lol
bosoxfan im gonna let the bosox nation know ur sneaking around a reds forum lmao

[savafan]

The definitive source for any in for on the Red Sox is Sons of Sam Horn. Apparently they are having a hell of a time with their site right now (possible hack has lost posts?)

Can't say I feel too sorry for them after they banned me from the site just because I wasn't local.

[BoSox4Life]

luvdozer, I think you need to do some listening to 850 AM WEEI. If you did, you would know that this is what they have been talking about for weeks...Dunn or Casey from the Reds, prolly for some prospects.

Sean McAdam (from espn.com, WEEI, among others) has been mentioning this for weeks. He's not gettin his info from SOHH, Dirtdogs, or any other source (which most of the time, they are wrong). This is what he's been finding out from being a beatwriter and being the "clubhouse insider." Gammons, has backed up this story. I would take what they say very seriously.

Take a listen.

[klw]

If this were to happen I would not be surprised to see Millar included with prospects. Otherwise the sox would have to dump Millar somewhere else. If they don't than they have 4 DH/1st Basemen. (Ortiz, Millar, Olerud, Casey) His inclusion would also be to offset salary. Millar is at 3.5 million this year.

[OldXOhio]

I think the Reds would trade Dunn before they traded Casey.

agreed and that philosophy scares the hell out of me

[flyer85]

I think the Reds would trade Dunn before they traded Casey.AN in-season trade of Dunn would not bring much. If they are going to trade him it would be an off-season deal if DanO has any brains(which could be debated).

The one thing that can't be denied is Casey would be a perfect fit for the BoSox.

[BoSox4Life]

Yeah I wouldn't be suprised either. He's only a "clubhouse guy" and that's it. They would love to dump Milllar off to someone else (though Francona has a strange loyalty to him).

I for one would love to see Millar in a Reds uni (can you take Bellhorn too? lol).

[luvdozer]

luvdozer, I think you need to do some listening to 850 AM WEEI. If you did, you would know that this is what they have been talking about...Dunn or Casey from the Reds, prolly for some prospects.

Sean McAdam (from espn.com, WEEI, among others) has been mentioning this for weeks. He's not gettin his info from SOHH, Dirtdogs, or any other source. This is what he's been finding out from being a beatwriter and being the "clubhouse insider."

Take a listen.

I am not doubting you. I am just saying what I see on the sources I go to. One thing I wont do is listen to WEEI :barf:

I have however heard Mike Sweeney's name bandied about - however that is probably due to the fact that KC is offering him to every single team in the majors.

[OldXOhio]

To be the GM that ran both clubhouse favorites Graves AND Casey out of town...oh the horror.

[BoSox4Life]

Sweeney is so underrated, it's pathetic. I mean, who wants to be in KC? lol :confused:

[flyer85]

I for one would love to see Millar in a Reds uni (can you take Bellhorn too? lol).will take 'em along with Shoppach and Delcarmen for Casey and DJ.

[OldXOhio]

If KC is willing to be reasonable in their demands for Sweeney, you can probably kiss a Casey to Boston deal goodbye.

[luvdozer]

Can't say I feel too sorry for them after they banned me from the site just because I wasn't local.

You mean you were a member and they cancelled your membership because you didnt live in Boston? I find that hard to beleive.

Currently, you cannot post to SOSH unless you are a member. New memberships are closed to all because they have something like 10,000 on the waiting list. Anyone - regardless of location is free to register and view the site.

[flyer85]

Sweeney is so underrated, it's pathetic. I mean, who wants to be in KC? lol :confused:issue with Sweeney is too much money for a DH. The team already has a DH in Ortiz. Sweeney goes to $12.5M through 2007 if traded. That is a lot of money for an aging injury prone DH.

[flyer85]

If KC is willing to be reasonable in their demands for Sweeney, you can probably kiss a Casey to Boston deal goodbye.Sweeney is a DH only, too injury prone and VERY expensive.

[The_jbh]

As much as BoSox fans would like to say "your not getting this guy" or yadayadayada, when it comes down to it, come July, the BoSox are gonna do whatever it takes to win another WS...

with that said, i hope DO doesnt make a deal that he isnt 100% happy with what hes getting. I can see Ramirez being off limits but that would probably be it. maybe Papel...

Deforia by no means would be untouchable nor would ne1 else outside the top 2 or so.
im not trying to act like i know more about Bosox nation than their owns fan, im just saying when it comes to a WS, teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, White Sox and the other big markets dont really have "untouchables"

[The_jbh]

Also if we don't get Ramirez, i don't send them Dunn... PERIOD

[flyer85]

Also if we don't get Ramirez, i don't send them Dunn... PERIODThe Sox don't need Dunn and even if they did they are unlikely to deal Ramirez.

[luvdozer]

Sweeney is so underrated, it's pathetic. I mean, who wants to be in KC? lol :confused:

Underrated? I am not sure I agree with that part - he has only played 2\3 of a season the last 2 years and less than a full season the year before that. he hasnt hit above 300 for the last two and the reason behind his missed playing time is a recurring bad back :eek: I think any would wonder exactly how many games this guy would play in any given season.

That said, I think a healthy Sweeney could be devastating on the Sox. He wouldnt be called upon to be the keystone of the entire offense and his 300 average with moderate power would give the sluggers more protection then they receive from Millar now. depending on the lineup you could see Varitek's number explode.

Wait - which forum is this?

[flyer85]

As much as BoSox fans would like to say "your not getting this guy" or yadayadayada, when it comes down to it, come July, the BoSox are gonna do whatever it takes to win another WS...Which means plugging a hole. Casey would more than adequately fix their 1b problem and cost much less than Dunn(in terms of prospects). The BoSox also could use a middle IF and a bullpen arm.

[OldXOhio]

Sweeney is a DH only, too injury prone and VERY expensive.

The Bosox wrote the book on using DHs to play first, so I can't see that holding up a deal. His salary is high (although not exceedingly higher than Casey's, and his health is a question, but he's got an awful lot of punch in his bat that could help a GM in the heat of a pennant race to overlook both....certainly one that man's a team with lots of cash like the Sox.

Also does not hurt that he's a really solid, likeable clubhouse presence that I could have sworn has been tooted once or twice on Casey's behalf.

[SplitFinger]

As much as BoSox fans would like to say "your not getting this guy" or yadayadayada, when it comes down to it, come July, the BoSox are gonna do whatever it takes to win another WS...

with that said, i hope DO doesnt make a deal that he isnt 100% happy with what hes getting. I can see Ramirez being off limits but that would probably be it. maybe Papel...

Deforia by no means would be untouchable nor would ne1 else outside the top 2 or so.
im not trying to act like i know more about Bosox nation than their owns fan, im just saying when it comes to a WS, teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, White Sox and the other big markets dont really have "untouchables"We all thought Kazmir was an untouchable but no wait he goes to the D-RAys for Victor Zambrano, an at best above average pitcher

[flyer85]

Sweeney's numbers have settled in at an .850 OPS in the last three years, not apprecialbly better than Casey. In addition Sweeney would be owed $25M in 06-07 where Casey is only owed $8m+ in 06. Casey can play first adequately, Sweeney and Ortiz cannot. Casey and his swing were made to hit in Fenway. Sweeney has had recurring back problems in each of the last three seasons which is a huge danger sign.

[flyer85]

We all thought Kazmir was an untouchable but no wait he goes to the D-RAys for Victor Zambrano, an at best above average pitcherStill no rational explanantion for the Mets stupidity on that one other than a last gasp hail mary by Phillips trying to save his job.

[The_jbh]

Kazmir is the extreme, but that is my point. Beyond the top 2 guys in the system or so (or in the yankee case, no one) no one is untouchable in an organization like Boston.


I'd say Deforia and Shoppach for Casey would be a great deal for both squads...

[REDREAD]

Still no rational explanantion for the Mets stupidity on that one other than a last gasp hail mary by Phillips trying to save his job.

Makes one really worried about the "hail Mary" DanO is going to throw to try to save his job (probably at the trade deadline or earlier).

[Blimpie]

Still no rational explanantion for the Mets stupidity on that one other than a last gasp hail mary by Phillips trying to save his job...which ended up looking like Golden Richards in the end zone of the Super Bowl... :D

[flyer85]

I'd say Deforia Who is that?

[Red Leader]

Who is that?

I think he means Pedroia

[OldXOhio]

Sweeney's .900 OPS since 2002 have happened while fighting back problems. Casey's had shoulder issues to consider and a sub .800 OPS over the last 3 years (which by the way includes a monstrous first half of 2004 which more and more looks like an outlier). I don't disagree that Sean would nicely fill Boston's need and Sweeney's contract beyond this season is a consideration. That said, Sweeney is an AL guy, familiar with the pitching and when healthy (certainly an IF) is one of the game's elite hitters. Casey is not.

[flyer85]

I think he means PedroiaI would prefer a power arm like Delcarmen over a 2B like Pedroia. He might even be the 2B in Boston before the year is out.

[BoSox4Life]

Pedroia and Ramirez are going to be hard to get. Everyone is is fair game.

[flyer85]

That said, Sweeney is an AL guy, familiar with the pitching and when healthy (certainly an IF) is one of the game's elite hitters. AN .850 OPS is not an elite hitter and that is exactly what Sweeney has been since the beginning of 2003. His best days are behind him and back injuries scare everybody because the players are never the same. Is he a better hitter than Casey? Yes he is, but the factors of no position, boatloads of money owed to him and a bad back make him the kind of player the BoSox will avoid.

[savafan]

You mean you were a member and they cancelled your membership because you didnt live in Boston? I find that hard to beleive.



That's exactly what I mean. I posted on the P&G forum and everything. If you did a search for Savafan you could probably still find some of my posts.

[flyer85]

Pedroia and Ramirez are going to be hard to get. Everyone is is fair game.I don't think they deal Papelbon either. Mainly because they will be able to fill their holes without trading any of those guys.

[OldXOhio]

AN .850 OPS is not an elite hitter and that is exactly what Sweeney has been since the beginning of 2003.

Just so happens to be the same time period that he's been battling injuries. Take a look at his 1999-2002 seasons - those are pre-injury and they are elite.

[flyer85]

Just so happens to be the same time period that he's been battling injuries. Take a look at his 1999-2002 seasons - those are pre-injury and they are elite.and that was three years ago and which suggests the .850 is more likely a new level performance after the back problems(which after three years+ of them seem unlikely to go away).

[The_jbh]

Yea i meant Pedoria sorry, i was pulling Reds OF Deforia out of the old noggin i guess.

I would prefer a power arm like Delcarmen over a 2B like Pedroia. He might even be the 2B in Boston before the year is out.

Decarmen is coming off Tommy John correct? I don't trust the Reds staff with that at all.

I'd love Papelbon and Shoppach but i dont know if Casey would fetch that...

LEster is a solid arm but i think Pedoria would be a better value than him. Beyond Papelbon, Lester and Decarmen, none of the other arms in the red sox system really thrill me. Anibal Sanchez has been haunted by arm problems... elbow included, we have plenty of those in our system... Abe Alverez sounds like guys we have in our system, lefty with a pedestrian fastball and solid alternate offerings. I think we need to add some more power arms...

Knowing DANO Alverez is his guy, sounds like projects as a pitch to contact guy...

9. ABE ALVAREZ, lhp Age: 22 B-T: L-L Ht: 6-2 Wt: 190
Drafted: Long Beach State, 2003 (2nd round) Signed by: Jim Woodward


Background: The Red Sox believed Alvarez' exceptional feel for pitching would allow him to move rapidly, and he made his big league debut in an emergency start against the Orioles just 13 months after they drafted him. A childhood infection left him legally blind in his left eye, and he wears his cap askew to shield his right eye from too much light.

Strengths: Alvarez' command and his changeup, his main weapons, are the best in the system. Though his fastball registers a pedestrian 85-88 mph on radar guns, he gets outs by locating it with precision. His curveball can be a solid average pitch.

Weaknesses: Alvarez works with little margin for error. When he fell behind hitters in his big league start, he couldn't recover. Righthanders batted .271 off him in Double-A, and he needs to pitch inside to keep them honest. While he throws his curveball for strikes, he needs to learn how to throw it out of the zone while still getting hitters to chase it.
The Future: The most advanced pitching prospect in the organization, Alvarez will open the season in Triple-A. He projects as a No. 3-5 starter.

[OldXOhio]

RC, Perhaps that's why I phrased my comment in this manner...


That said, Sweeney is an AL guy, familiar with the pitching and when healthy (certainly an IF) is one of the game's elite hitters.

[SteelSD]

Just so happens to be the same time period that he's been battling injuries. Take a look at his 1999-2002 seasons - those are pre-injury and they are elite.

And Sweeney's .900+ OPS seasons were, not coincidentally, his age-prime seasons.

Not sure what you're arguing, because at this point in their careers, Casey and Sweeney are virtually the same hitter. In fact, considering how big a hitter's park Kaufman has been before last season, they might as well be LH/RH twins their entire careers- with Sweeney the more expensive of the two.

As for injuries, Casey has had the most productive-devestating of the two. Sweeney currently carries around the physical issue most likely to recur as he ages.

Now, if they both played the field equally well, Sweeney's familiarity with the AL might be a nod in his favor. But, alas, Sweeney's a DH with a first baseman's glove. Boston already has one of those every time Ortiz takes the field with a glove on his hand.

[flyer85]

BaseballHQ updates their projections each week and they project Casey to finish the season with an OPS at .842 and Sweeney at .846

[OldXOhio]

Steel, my point was this...


If KC is willing to be reasonable in their demands for Sweeney, you can probably kiss a Casey to Boston deal goodbye.

[flyer85]

I'd love Papelbon and Shoppach but i dont know if Casey would fetch that..He would not, the best the Reds could hope for is a couple of solid prospects like Shoppach and Delcarmen. Having TJ surgery is not necessarily a bad thing. Not nearly as damaging to LT prospects as as cuff or labrum surgery. Delcarmen is two years removed from it and has a power arm, something the Reds are desperate for.

[flyer85]

If KC is willing to be reasonable in their demands for Sweeney, you can probably kiss a Casey to Boston deal goodbye..Why? Casey makes more sense from every angle you look at it
1) He is a 1B.
2) He is likely to put up very similar hitting numbers
3) He is owed a LOT LESS money
4) He was made for Fenway
5) He doesn't have back problems

The only conceivable argument you could make for Sweeney is that if he were to return to complete health he is a better hitter. However, seeing as he is 3 years removed from that it is a BIG if.

[SteelSD]

Steel, my point was this...

Understood. But really, KC isn't going to be able to demand anything much for Sweeney right now anyway considering his price tag and continued injury issues. I'm not saying that I'd be asking the sun and the moon for Casey, but there's additional value due to...

1. Casey's injury is actually behind him (with the stipulation that he did recently have fluid drained from his shoulder)
2. Casey can field the position
3. Casey has performed at a higher level more recently than Sweeney
4. Casey's less expensive

Now, I can't see those three things not being of some relative value to the BoSox versus Sweeney. The only real way KC can be more "reasonable" than the Reds if those players are involved is if KC is willing to virtually give Sweeney away for free. And I'm not so sure even that will work being that Boston already has a DH that can stand at 1B.

In short, there may be a scenario in which KC does have an opportunity to simply dump Sweeney's salary to Boston for pretty much nothing coming back. That still doesn't guarantee that Boston actually wants him.

[flyer85]

If history is any indicator, Casey is going to seriously pad his numbers this weekend.

[klw]

Gammons on WEEI right now. Let's see if he mentions this.

[The_jbh]

He would not, the best the Reds could hope for is a couple of solid prospects like Shoppach and Delcarmen. Having TJ surgery is not necessarily a bad thing. Not nearly as damaging to LT prospects as as cuff or labrum surgery. Delcarmen is two years removed from it and has a power arm, something the Reds are desperate for.

I see Delcarmen as a Chris Reitsma type, a guy we bounce back in forth between the been and rotation until we finally find hes best suited for set up... then we deal him to the braves.

But in all seriousness, i see Delcarmen as a potential dominating set up man rather than starter. I know we need relievers but i feel like Casey should pull in more. I think we undervalue casey here on Redzone and im not even really a casey fan. I just think people in baseball think of him as the complete package, an allstar with a allstar personality. Those dont come around a whole lot in baseball. I'm not so sure the Red Sox are a match for a deal unless that are willing to overpay in our sense of "overpaying"

[Marc D]

All very valid points made, excellent thread.

My .02 is that I don't pretend to know how good any of these prospects are but I have felt for sometime that Casey was the logjam preventing the Reds from moving on. If we can move him and his salary for a couple of solid prospects I am actually going to be excited.

If we have to take Millar back for a year for salary reasons, no big deal, this seasons shot already. Using the money saved from Casey to sign Dunn LTC, move him to 1B then have a JR/Pena/Kearns outfield grow into the terror it could become would be my dream. If Dan O then successfully traded Randa and maybe got a little something for DJ I would seriously consider cutting him some slack(untill the next Milton/Wilson home run derby).

However, I'll take what I can get where the Reds are concerned and just be happy some progress was made in '05 if we dumped Graves, moved Casey and maybe found a future star in Lopez.

[klw]

Gammons take was that the Sox will have to decide come late July whether to go and get someone to play first or to use the money to pursue pitching instead. He did give the example of Sean Casey for the firtstbaseman in the "8 to 10 million" range. He did not mention any specific rumor just discussing needs.

[GridironGrace]

I see Casey having some good years in Boston if he ends up there!! He is the best choice for the Sox. Dunn is only mentioned due to he CAN play first, but wont want to

[luvdozer]

Gammons take was that the Sox will have to decide come late July whether to go and get someone to play first or to use the money to pursue pitching instead. He did give the example of Sean Casey for the firtstbaseman in the "8 to 10 million" range. He did not mention any specific rumor just discussing needs.


Without getting into the question of distinguishing when Gammons is just wildly speculating without basis or when he is relaying actual discussions, I think this makes total sense.

I follow the Sox more than any other team aside from the Reds since I live here. One needs to keep in mind that Schilling is big giant question mark. If he can come back and be healthy, the Sox will feel really solid. If his bum ankle continues to creak throughout the summer or he is simply unable to shake the rust off, they will probably feel that they just cannot stand pat on pitching and must make a deal in that area. Remember that Wells has been VERY inconsistent and they needed him to be a rock in the # 2 slot. We also dont know for sure if Wade Miller is not only back but able to sustain good performance throughout the summer. Clement and Arroyo have been better than anyone could hope, but they will surely come back to earth a little bit.

If Wells gets hurt or Schilling has continuing problems, they will prioritize an SP over any issues at 1st base. If both Wells and Schilling settle in for the summer then there is no telling the kind of deal that Theo will try to pull off. deal for Casey (or even Dunn) and the Reds is certainly one of many possibilities.

[TC81190]

I'll throw a suggestion out there.

Reds get:
Bronson Arroyo
Kelly Shoppach
PTBNL

Boston gets:
Sean Casey

[StillFunkyB]

I'll throw a suggestion out there.

Reds get:
Bronson Arroyo
Kelly Shoppach
PTBNL

Boston gets:
Sean Casey

....and Theo would be hanged.

[TC81190]

I'm not sure how good SHoppach is. 1 to 5, rate him.

[OldXOhio]

Why? Casey makes more sense from every angle you look at it
1) He is a 1B.
2) He is likely to put up very similar hitting numbers
3) He is owed a LOT LESS money
4) He was made for Fenway
5) He doesn't have back problems

The only conceivable argument you could make for Sweeney is that if he were to return to complete health he is a better hitter. However, seeing as he is 3 years removed from that it is a BIG if.

I think you and Steel make some very good points about Casey being a good fit in Boston and I have not argued that one bit. Personally, I'd give Casey away to Boston if I could, just to free up the salary and solve the OF rotation once and for all. I do however think that Sweeney could fit in nicely in Boston as well. He has played his share of games at first, so the position is not completely foreign to him. No he's not a gold glover, but I'm not sure Boston needs one. Yes, his back is an issue, but up until recently, he was showing signs of his old self again....in a very bad KC lineup mind you. I cannot agree w/ the assertion that Casey and Sweeney mirror one another if Sweeney's health returns to form. When healthy, the guy contends for batting titles and RBI crowns while hitting 30 dingers. Those are not things Sean Casey can do. And that, along with the Royals' demands, is what my argument was predicated on. Nothing more, nothing less. If Casey is the better fit, so be it. I just think Sweeney's the better player. It is an unknown whether Sweeney has overcome his problems, but it's also not a given that what you saw w/ Sweeney in 2003-2004 is what you're getting the rest of his playing days.

We'll see - as I said, I hope you guys are right.

[flyer85]

wrong thread

[klw]

Sean McAdam (from espn.com, WEEI, among others) has been mentioning this for weeks. He's not gettin his info from SOHH, Dirtdogs, or any other source (which most of the time, they are wrong). This is what he's been finding out from being a beatwriter and being the "clubhouse insider." Gammons, has backed up this story. I would take what they say very seriously.

Take a listen.


For what is worth in yesterday's Providence Journal, Sean McAdam said the REd Sox are not very interested in any of the veteran position players on the market and specifically mentioned Casey.