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View Full Version : Confederate ceremony in Missouri draws hundreds while others protest



RBA
06-05-2005, 08:54 PM
Looks like this type of activity is on the comeback trail. What next? A Nazi Memorial service?



Confederate ceremony in Missouri draws hundreds while others protest










JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. Hundreds of people in Missouri turned out for a Confederate memorial service that led to a protest outside of the governor's mansion.

Governor Matt Blunt had ordered a one-day flying of the Confederate flag at the memorial site in Higginsville. He says he had been acting on the request of a state lawmaker representing the area where the service was being held.

The memorial service included singing "Dixie" and laying roses at a Confederate monument. It's the first time the Confederate flag has flown over state property since January of 2003.



While the service was going on, about 20 demonstrators carrying small American flags were marching up and down the sidewalks outside the governor's mansion in Jefferson City.

http://www.wluctv6.com/global/story.asp?s=3433778&ClientType=Printable

Falls City Beer
06-05-2005, 09:07 PM
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Johnny Footstool
06-06-2005, 01:45 AM
Looks like this type of activity is on the comeback trail. What next? A Nazi Memorial service?

Funny you should ask. A couple of months ago on Hitler's birthday, a group of neo-Nazis held a birthday celebration in a German restaurant in KC. They showed up in full SS regalia. There were some nice photos in the local papers.

Mutaman
06-06-2005, 02:09 AM
What's so new about the Nazis ? Doesn't anybody remember "Bonzo goes to Bittberg", when the Gipper layed a wreath at the memorial for some SS guys. Hey I admire the courage and determination of the Confederate army as much as the next guy, but the bottom line is they were fighting to preserve slavery and they were in rebellion against the good old USA. I guess asking for a little common sense is out of the question.

Ravenlord
06-06-2005, 02:13 AM
i still contend that the Civil War was about States Rights...taxation, slavery, and tarriffs (sp) in that order of importance. in truth, they were nearly one in the same in the South's economy. the diplorable act of slavery is just the easiest to pick up upon. mainly because of the Emancipation Proclomation which was mainly done to make sure European powers didn't give support to the Confederates.

all that said, these guys are idiots, and it speaks volumes about Blunt and the lawmaker. but like an anti-war protester, it's their right. i still don't have to like it though.

BillyBeaneFan
06-06-2005, 02:23 AM
I really don't get the romanticism people attach to the Confederacy. They wanted to tear America apart, regardless of how you feel about slavery. No one is going to sit here and say slavery is good. But there are some people who will scream "states rights" till they are blue in the face....

I kind of wish the Civil War had happened when Andrew Jackson was president. He threatened to crush John C. Calhoun's Nullification Crisis with force and he was a Southern Democrat himself. If a Southern Dem like AJ had fought the Civil War instead of a Northern Republican like Lincoln, I think it would have effectively eliminated almost all of the rhetorical fodder of the pro-Confederate forces.

Ravenlord
06-06-2005, 02:31 AM
If a Southern Dem like AJ had fought the Civil War instead of a Northern Republican like Lincoln, I think it would have effectively eliminated almost all of the rhetorical fodder of the pro-Confederate forces.probably...because he'd killed 'em all and started the assimilation process hard and heavy right away. instead of a 4 year war, it probably would have been a 20-month war.

RedsBaron
06-06-2005, 10:19 PM
What's so new about the Nazis ? Doesn't anybody remember "Bonzo goes to Bittberg", when the Gipper layed a wreath at the memorial for some SS guys.
I don't remember that, probably because President Reagan didn't lay a wreath at a memorial for some SS guys. In 1985, President Reagan accepted an invitation from West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl to make a state visit to West Germany following the Bonn economic summit. Kohl's government then produced an itinerary that included a stop at a military cemetery. Only after accepting the invitation did the Reagan administration learn that among the 2000 or so soldiers buried there were between 30 and 48 SS storm troopers. Reagan refused to embarass Kohl and did not cancel the visit, although he came under severe criticism, including private criticism from Nancy ReagAn, for going forward with the visit. No wreath was laid by Reagan at a memorial for the SS.

savafan
06-06-2005, 10:44 PM
With free speech you have to take the good with the bad.

LoganBuck
06-06-2005, 11:10 PM
Another side of the arguement is that there are families of civil war dead that were no less heroes to the people of the Confederacy. Their ancestors fought and died for their cause. While popular culture seeks to marginalize their existance as biggots and racists. They were fighting for their land and their country, and their ideals. The war was not fought by aristocrat slave owners, it was fought by poor farmers, and laborers, on both sides. The soldiers of the confederacy were no less noble than those of the north.

Slavery was and continues to be a horrible attrocity.

savafan
06-06-2005, 11:14 PM
Another side of the arguement is that there are families of civil war dead that were no less heroes to the people of the Confederacy. Their ancestors fought and died for their cause. While popular culture seeks to marginalize their existance as biggots and racists. They were fighting for their land and their country, and there ideals. The war was not fought by aristocrat slave owners, it was fought by poor farmers, and laborers, on both sides. The soldiers of the confederacy were no less noble than those of the north.

Slavery was and continues to be a horrible attrocity.

Excellent post. I love to study the Civil War. One of the best and worst, most romantic and most tragic moments in our nation's history.

BillyBeaneFan
06-06-2005, 11:19 PM
Another side of the arguement is that there are families of civil war dead that were no less heroes to the people of the Confederacy. Their ancestors fought and died for their cause. While popular culture seeks to marginalize their existance as biggots and racists. They were fighting for their land and their country, and there ideals. The war was not fought by aristocrat slave owners, it was fought by poor farmers, and laborers, on both sides. The soldiers of the confederacy were no less noble than those of the north.

Slavery was and continues to be a horrible attrocity.

No, I don't blame the rank-and-file soldiers. As they said at the time: "rich man's war, poor man's fight." You're right, they were fighting for what they knew and we can't blame them for that. Heck, one of my first ancestors to reach America was a poor Irish schoolteacher who fought for the South.

The people I blame are these people in Missouri and thousands of others like them. The people who say the South will rise again. The people who put up Confederate flags.

Those are the people I blame.

savafan
06-06-2005, 11:28 PM
The South clearly had superior military intelligence, and still didn't win. Of course, had Lee listened to Longstreet, things may have been different. Ultimately, we just have to believe that right won out.

Falls City Beer
06-06-2005, 11:29 PM
The South clearly had superior military intelligence, and still didn't win. Of course, had Lee listened to Longstreet, things may have been different. Ultimately, we just have to believe that right won out.

The North had all the staying power and industrial might it needed. Progress squashed conservatism. It was only a matter of time.

savafan
06-06-2005, 11:32 PM
The North had all the staying power and industrial might it needed. Progress squashed conservatism. It was only a matter of time.

The tide of the war really changed 3 days in a small farm town in Pennsylvania in July of 1863.

LoganBuck
06-06-2005, 11:32 PM
The way I read it they are honoring war dead, not trying to cause an uproar. "Dixie" was the song of the confederacy and depending on the tone and tempo of the song, it can be joyous or somber. I would guess that at a confederate memorial service it would be very appropriate.

I agree that those who say "The south will rise again" tend to be rabble rousers.

RedsBaron
06-07-2005, 08:03 AM
U.S Grant, who lost thousands of troops to Confederate fire, had as much a right as anyone to hate those who fought for the South, but he didn't rejoice at Lee's surrender. In his memoirs, Grant wrote: "I felt like anything rather than rejoicing at the downfall of a foe who had fought so long and valiantly, and had suffered so much for a cause, though that cause was, I believe, one of the worst for which a people ever fought, and one for which there was the least excuse."

bomarl1969
06-07-2005, 08:23 AM
I have no problem with a confederate memorial. Now yes I do disagree with racist and skinheads who use the rebel flags as a weapon of hate, but I don't see a problem with the historical value or rememberance of the brave soldiers that fought for both sides. Sad war that tore many families and friends apart. I love to study about the war though. Two of the Generals that I look up to the most from that era were actually Confederates.

Lee devoted the rest of his life following the war to educating the youth. Many say that he nevered mentioned the war after the surrender at Appomattox. Military wise he could do wonders with his army of Northern Virginia while up against incredible odds.

Stonewall Jackson was extremely religious and even wished for slavery to be abolished. From a military standpoint he was a tactical genius. Future generals i.e. General Patton would look to Jackson as a model for their own tactics.

BillyBeaneFan
06-07-2005, 11:47 AM
The South clearly had superior military intelligence, and still didn't win. Of course, had Lee listened to Longstreet, things may have been different. Ultimately, we just have to believe that right won out.

Yeah, except when they left battle plans lying around under trees for the Union to find and then the Union beat them in decisive battles because of it (see "Gettysburg, Battle of").

The South did have superior tactical minds. I don't think anyone can doubt that Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, and J.E.B. Stuart among others were all first-rate tacticians. The Union had some awful minds--George McClellan, Ambrose Burnside, Fightin' Joe Hooker.

But...short of a European nation intervening on the side of the South, I don't think they had a chance of winning the war. Their economy was not developed enough. Their population was too small. Their infrastructure was lagging.

The North might not have won the war in gallant fashion. Grinding down the Confederacy through attrition like Grant did was not as glamorous as a cavalry charges, etc. However, it worked. It was the right strategy for the Union and thank God for us that Grant figured it out when he did.