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schroomytunes
06-10-2005, 11:57 PM
Baseball Tonight said the Mets are looking at Sean Casey as a replacement for Doug Mientkiewicz. I would do this deal in a heartbeat, it definitely is an upgrade for the Mets, and after their offseason free agency spending this may be the piece of the puzzle to get them in the playoffs. It would be a major dissapointment if the Mets didn't make the playoffs after signing Pedro and Beltran, and the fans would be restless. I would like DanO to go after this deal NOW! here's my pitch to the Mets:

Reds trade: Sean Casey

Mets trade: Yumeiro Petit(AA) RHP Baseball America's #46 prospect and he's only 21yrs old. Having a good season at AA.

Aaron Heilman(ML) 27 year old Starter who's been relegated to the Mets bullpen, has posted solid numbers when starting but just really never given an opportunity with the Mets.

Jae Seo(AAA) 28 yr old starter. Has been to the majors, but the Mets keep jerkin him around, they would trade him for the right player. Seo's numbers have been good, but he projects as a 5th starter or long reliever.

This deal is very doable, but I insist on Petit as the centerpiece for Casey, others may be changable, if we have to eat Mientkiewicz's salary then I ask for Petit and minor leaguer Lastings Milledge(A) OF. BA's #11 prospect. The deal then would be:

Reds trade: Sean Casey 8.5 million
Joe Valentine(AAA) RP

Mets trade: Doug Mientkiewicz 3.75million
Yosmiero Petit AA RHP
Lastings Milledge A OF
Thoughts?

Joseph
06-11-2005, 12:07 AM
Interesting rumor. I'd have to reasearch the stats on the involved parties.

Buckeye33
06-11-2005, 12:09 AM
Do the trade which I assumed was mentioned on BBTN and be giddy.

Getting 3 pitchers for Casey would be a steal. Especially when 2 of them could still be very good starters and the 3rd a decent bullpen arm with the chance of being a 5th starter.

BillyBeaneFan
06-11-2005, 12:20 AM
It really doesn't matter what we get for Casey. Just getting him and his salary out of here is enough for me. He is keeping young talent out of the lineup and getting paid entirely too much to do it, and while he is a great guy, I'd give him away for a fungo bat.

MartyFan
06-11-2005, 12:20 AM
I didn't hear the report but man o man...we'd have to be nuts not to do this.

RDriesen16
06-11-2005, 12:25 AM
Baseball Tonight said the Mets are looking at Sean Casey as a replacement for Doug Mientkiewicz. I would do this deal in a heartbeat, it definitely is an upgrade for the Mets, and after their offseason free agency spending this may be the piece of the puzzle to get them in the playoffs. It would be a major dissapointment if the Mets didn't make the playoffs after signing Pedro and Beltran, and the fans would be restless. I would like DanO to go after this deal NOW! here's my pitch to the Mets:

Reds trade: Sean Casey

Mets trade: Yumeiro Petit(AA) RHP Baseball America's #46 prospect and he's only 21yrs old. Having a good season at AA.

Aaron Heilman(ML) 27 year old Starter who's been relegated to the Mets bullpen, has posted solid numbers when starting but just really never given an opportunity with the Mets.

Jae Seo(AAA) 28 yr old starter. Has been to the majors, but the Mets keep jerkin him around, they would trade him for the right player. Seo's numbers have been good, but he projects as a 5th starter or long reliever.

This deal is very doable, but I insist on Petit as the centerpiece for Casey, others may be changable, if we have to eat Mientkiewicz's salary then I ask for Petit and minor leaguer Lastings Milledge(A) OF. BA's #11 prospect. The deal then would be:

Reds trade: Sean Casey 8.5 million
Joe Valentine(AAA) RP

Mets trade: Doug Mientkiewicz 3.75million
Yosmiero Petit AA RHP
Lastings Milledge A OF
Thoughts?


thoughts? yea, why in the BLEEEEEEEEEP would the mets do that?

macro
06-11-2005, 12:36 AM
Not to be overlooked is that Casey would be reunited with you-know-who. Somebody cue up Peaches and Herb: "Reunited and it feels so good..."

MartyFan
06-11-2005, 12:47 AM
Not to be overlooked is that Casey would be reunited with you-know-who. Somebody cue up Peaches and Herb: "Reunited and it feels so good..."

AWSOME!!!

I love that song...reminds me of 6th grade after school dance and making out with an unsuspecting Polly Mower...oh sure, I was young...but I was smooth with the ladies...of course, calling Polly a lady is suspect according to my mother who blamed her for everything when she had to attend a parent teacher conference.

Oh, ummmm...yeah, Danny and Sean together again....let the magic flow!

wally post
06-11-2005, 12:51 AM
Not to be overlooked is that Casey would be reunited with you-know-who. Somebody cue up Peaches and Herb: "Reunited and it feels so good..." :jump: :jump: :jump:

funny!
Good deal to make IMO.
for some reason that I don't understand, the mets aren't high on Heilman even though he's pitched several great outings in the majors. They are in the mix and need relievers - that's for sure! Petit is a must in the trade for me - we've gotta keep "farming". Seo isn't much - my .02

Team Clark
06-11-2005, 12:52 AM
Great! How soon can we get this approved. With Dunn's poor OF play (Nice job on that easy liner tonight) he'll make a decent 1B.

On a side note Dunn's blunder is the 5th I've watched in the last 9 games. Only once has he been given an Error. WOW!!!

kyred14
06-11-2005, 12:52 AM
do it now dano! you won't get a better offer

BEETTLEBUG
06-11-2005, 01:27 AM
BEETLEBUG says do the deal DANO!!!

Wheelhouse
06-11-2005, 06:22 AM
Love it!

Mr Red
06-11-2005, 07:37 AM
TeamClark took the words right out of my mouth. I like Casey alot, however, for all the doubles he hits it seems that he kills an inning with a double play ball way too often.
How many times have we watched Dunn get turned around on a fly ball? How many times have we seem him half heartedly jump to snare one that goes over his head? I truly believe that he is ideally a first baseman because of his defense.
Having said that I would support trading Casey prior to trading Dunn, Kearns, Pena, or Griffey.

Royals Fan
06-11-2005, 07:42 AM
Players on the Mets's top ten list- I like are

1. phillp humber

2. Petie

3. Milllage

---------------------

my trade would look like this Casey and Vallentine for Humber and Petit or Seo or Heilman.We need get his kid humber in any deal with the Mets.

LvJ
06-11-2005, 08:06 AM
I'd do either trade in a heartbeat without thinking twice.

RedlegJake
06-11-2005, 08:48 AM
I'd trade Casey and wouldn't need Milledge or Petit to get it done. Milledge is another toolsy player who is ranked that high because of his potential - not because of his results so far. I'd like 2 of the following group: Juan Padilla, Gabriel Hernandez, Brian Bannister, Michael Devaney, all pitchers, and either Andy Wilson or Dante Brinkley. Wilson, a catcher is 24, has a .361 OBP and .574 SP with 12 HR in 197 AB this year; Brinkley, an OF, has a .493 OBP, .654 SP. Gabe Hernandez is 19 and putting up ridiculous numbers. Whether the Mets would do the deal or not???

Actually, I'd do the deal for any 2 of the above players named.

SunDeck
06-11-2005, 09:01 AM
AWSOME!!!

I love that song...reminds me of 6th grade after school dance and making out with an unsuspecting Polly Mower...

Unsuspecting? That is smooth. :D

Heath
06-11-2005, 09:27 AM
what was BBTN's trade for Casey?

OldXOhio
06-11-2005, 09:33 AM
DanO has yet to show me he has the smarts to do something like trade Casey. Sorry to be a wet blanket as I'd really like to see it go through, but I'm not holding out any hope on him doing what this team needs.

RFS62
06-11-2005, 09:33 AM
Not to be overlooked is that Casey would be reunited with you-know-who. Somebody cue up Peaches and Herb: "Reunited and it feels so good..."


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


"We represent, the lollypop kids, the lollypop kids, the lollypop kids"

Maldez
06-11-2005, 09:37 AM
Again, I am baffled by all the negativity surrounding Sean Casey. What the heck has he done, or not done, that makes most Reds fans giddy about getting him off the team?

OldXOhio
06-11-2005, 09:41 AM
Again, I am baffled by all the negativity surrounding Sean Casey. What the heck has he done, or not done, that makes most Reds fans giddy about getting him off the team?

1. High salary for this organization
2. Decent trade value
3. Lower OPS than Dunn, Pena, Griffey
4. 5-6 years older than Dunn, Pena, Kearns
5. 5 players for 4 positions
6. Borrowed Ryan Freel's soap and didn't return it

RFS62
06-11-2005, 09:42 AM
Again, I am baffled by all the negativity surrounding Sean Casey. What the heck has he done, or not done, that makes most Reds fans giddy about getting him off the team?


I am and have been one of Seans biggest supporters. But I think the front office sees him as more than a player. He's the face of the Reds, and tremendously popular with the fan base.

Regardless, he makes more money than we can afford for his production.

Marc D
06-11-2005, 10:44 AM
3. Lower OPS than Dunn, Pena, Griffey


Don't forget Freel, Randa and Lopez. So lets see thats 6 of the 8 regulars who have a higher OPS than our #3 hitter. :help:

Casey also boasts 3 HR's and 28 RBI's from the 3 hole while having the best OBP leadoff hitter in the NL in front of him. At 8M+ and still having trade value he needs to go asap. The mayor routine is nice but it doesn't seem to be helping us win any more games.

wally post
06-11-2005, 10:54 AM
I like casey a whole lot. If he gets traded, I will miss him and part of me will definately regret he's no longer a Red. I think if he comes to NYC either as a Met or Yankee, he will have public success that he could've never imagined and will be fiercely loved by NY.
But his absence clears the logjam of the multi-outfielders better than any other scenario as I see it.
Also, he is now apparently an advisor to John Allen and an important cog to the Red's front office. Therefore he's DEFINITELY got to go. Guilt by association.

westofyou
06-11-2005, 11:27 AM
The Reds team #3 slot MLB and the NL

30th in MLB in HR's (16th)
17th in RBI's (8th)
16th in Slg% (9th)
12th OB% (9th)
15th in TB (8th)
18th in Runs(11th)
17th in OPS. (10th)

1 in Hugs and Smiles

puca
06-11-2005, 11:29 AM
The Reds team #3 slot MLB and the NL

30th in MLB in HR's (16th)
17th in RBI's (8th)
16th in Slg% (9th)
12th OB% (9th)
15th in TB (8th)
18th in Runs(11th)
17th in OPS. (10th)

1 in Hugs and Smiles

And don't forget 1 in GIDP

macro
06-11-2005, 11:41 AM
1. High salary for this organization
2. Decent trade value
3. Lower OPS than Dunn, Pena, Griffey
4. 5-6 years older than Dunn, Pena, Kearns
5. 5 players for 4 positions
6. Borrowed Ryan Freel's soap and didn't return it

7. Incessant public bellyaching about the release of Danny Graves.

Maldez
06-11-2005, 12:16 PM
1. High salary for this organization

Let the GM worry about that. All a fan should be concerned about is performance on the field, and Case gets it done.





2. Decent trade value

So trade a guy, just because you can get something in return? Hell, 80% of the Reds roster fits that bill.



3. Lower OPS than Dunn, Pena, Griffey

Again, at least 80% of the roster fits the bill. Why single out Casey?




4. 5-6 years older than Dunn, Pena, Kearns

Who cares !!!!




5. 5 players for 4 positions

I don't even know what that means.




6. Borrowed Ryan Freel's soap and didn't return it
Well, that's the first solid reason you've given me.

westofyou
06-11-2005, 12:30 PM
All a fan should be concerned about is performance on the field

If that was the case then Sean wouldn't get all his community accolades then.

Take those away and what you have is a Plus 30, slow, BA driven 1st baseman with limited EBH Power making more than 1/10th of the teams payroll. A team that is above average offensivly and WAY below average on the pitching side.

Howsam would have pulled the trigger last year.

Joseph
06-11-2005, 12:36 PM
Maldez, in a perfect world you could just enjoy things, but this isn't like that. Casey, while a nice guy and a solid player is one that, by being dealt, improve this team by a lot. He's older, and you have to care if you are trying to build for the future as this team has to strive for. And the comments about 80% of the rest of the team fitting the bill, well they don't make the money Casey makes so it's not as detrimental that they aren't dealt.

So in short, the money, the performance and the age aren't good matches for this team.

Marc D
06-11-2005, 12:37 PM
All a fan should be concerned about is performance on the field, and Case gets it done.


Every regular position player except LaRue has a higher OPS than Casey. I'm concerned.

13% of the current payroll tied up in an over 30 1B with no power while his departure would leave the way open to put Dunn at 1B and have the OF as Pena,Griffey and Kearns so we can see once and for all if Kearns is legit or a flash in the pan.

As WOY pointed out very clearly he is very substandard for a #3 hitter and the smiles and hugs just haven't shown up in the W colum yet.

OldXOhio
06-11-2005, 12:49 PM
Don't forget Freel, Randa and Lopez. So lets see thats 6 of the 8 regulars who have a higher OPS than our #3 hitter. :help:

Casey also boasts 3 HR's and 28 RBI's from the 3 hole while having the best OBP leadoff hitter in the NL in front of him. At 8M+ and still having trade value he needs to go asap. The mayor routine is nice but it doesn't seem to be helping us win any more games.

Right - I was just trying to compare him with his OF/1B peers where the Reds have a surplus.

OldXOhio
06-11-2005, 12:56 PM
Maldez, it's not just one individual thing that makes Casey the best of the bunch to trade. All the factors that have been listed in this thread make it the prudent thing to do. Frankly, if Junior were tradeable, he'd have been gone by now. Unfortunately, his health issues and large contract make it unlikely for us to move him. Stay tuned though, perhaps that changes this year. Knowing the reality of having to keep Junior, Casey becomes the next logical choice. The fact is there are 5 talented players with only 4 spots to give them. The Reds are in no position to have any of them, particularly a young one with high upside, sitting on a regular basis.

Redny
06-11-2005, 01:06 PM
At this point I would rather they trade Casey and keep Griffey because they can get more for Casey and at least Griffey is hitting with power and driving runs in. Plus should Griffey continue to play he could probably be moved at the deadline.

guttle11
06-11-2005, 01:12 PM
I would do the deal in a heartbeat. Casey isn't getting any younger or cheaper. Meinkewiecz(or howver you spell it) is a ecent avg guy with a little more pop than casey, plus he can flat out pick it.
I can't see us getting all three of those pitchers. I would take Pettit and Heilman over Seo.

come on DanO

OldXOhio
06-11-2005, 01:18 PM
Let the GM worry about that

Where to start with this one?

guttle11
06-11-2005, 01:45 PM
Let the GM worry about that.

As a respected fellow Redszoner said a while back, I wouldn't let the FO order me a quarter-pounder w/cheese at this point. How can we trust DanO and Allen to deal with the finances of this team. Do you trust them to maximize every dollar they are allowed to spend? i don't

The fact of the matter is that paying Sean Casey $7.8 million a year is like interviewing Rick Soloman on TV. It just shouldn't be done. Casey is a great guy, we all know that, but you can't justify paying him $7.8 million a year. As a middle-market team, the Reds need to maximize EVERY dollar they spend. If the do the trade, the save almost 4 million dollars. That can be used to lock up Harang for a few years. Get Heilman and Pettit and that is maximizing your money.

pedro
06-11-2005, 02:01 PM
I would do the deal in a heartbeat. Casey isn't getting any younger or cheaper. Meinkewiecz(or howver you spell it) is a ecent avg guy with a little more pop than casey, plus he can flat out pick it.
I can't see us getting all three of those pitchers. I would take Pettit and Heilman over Seo.

come on DanO

not to say I wouldn't trade casey but Meinkewiecz does not have more pop than Sean Casey, as sad as that may be. DM does have more HR's this year thusfar than SC, but that is an anomoly.

New Fever
06-11-2005, 02:34 PM
Who says, Griffey would even accept a trade, 10/5 rule?

guttle11
06-11-2005, 02:40 PM
Who says, Griffey would even accept a trade, 10/5 rule?

Do you mean Casey?? Casey isn't a 10/5 player since he hasn't been in the BIGS for 10 years

Maldez
06-11-2005, 06:13 PM
I am and have been one of Seans biggest supporters. But I think the front office sees him as more than a player. He's the face of the Reds, and tremendously popular with the fan base.

Regardless, he makes more money than we can afford for his production.

This seems to be the core gripe with Casey as I read through these posts. Most guys are saying "Yeah, Sean's a decent player, but we should be getting more bang for our buck with the salary he's making".

Might be. Not sure what the "typical production" is for a $7+ million a year guy. I know Casey consistently hits over .300 and has some pop in his bat.

But then there's the intangibles. Sean's got a certain charisma that you just can't put a dollar value on. I don't know if there's a better guy you'd want to build your clubhouse around, because Case is a guy that other players love playing with, and playing hard. Most fans see this, and come to the ballpark to watch Sean and his buds havin' fun on the field.

Hasn't been a whole lot of fun this year, but that's mostly because the pitching has been such a disaster.

I'd really, really hate to see the fun-lovin' Sean Casey get traded away for some stone-faced nobody that the front office thinks might put up better numbers.

Marc D
06-11-2005, 06:20 PM
Most fans see this, and come to the ballpark to watch Sean and his buds havin' fun on the field.

I would offer a bet people would rather come see the team win and could care less how much fun Sean and his buds were having.


I'd really, really hate to see the fun-lovin' Sean Casey get traded away for some stone-faced nobody that the front office thinks might put up better numbers.

I'd take a stone faced 1B that was younger, cheaper and put up 35HR and 120 RBI's in a heartbeat.

cincinnati chili
06-11-2005, 06:26 PM
As was suggested above, this is not realistic.

If the Mets took on Casey's guaranteed $8.5 salary for next year, then they'd probably send us Mientkiewicz (who has a $450,000 buyout for next year) rather than a prospect.

The Reds could put that money toward signing Dunn long term if they're smart, or toward another distaster like Milton, if they're not smart.

savafan
06-11-2005, 06:27 PM
Sean Casey

Similar Batters through Age 29


1. Bill White (945)
2. Wally Joyner (934)
3. Mike Greenwell (934)
4. Alvin Davis (934)
5. George Kelly (929) *
6. Ted Kluszewski (922)
7. Dmitri Young (921)
8. Mark Grace (916)
9. Steve Garvey (913)
10. Cecil Cooper (913)


Most Similar by Age


24. Joe Hauser (973)
25. Joe Hauser (967)
26. Jeff Bagwell (939)
27. Dmitri Young (957)
28. Ted Kluszewski (947)
29. Bill White (945)

M2
06-11-2005, 07:20 PM
It would take Yusmeiro Petit, Royce Ring and another prospect I really liked for me to pull the trigger.

Good news is I'm pretty sure Minaya would do something like it. He's shown a willingness to part with prospects for a right now return in the past.

RedlegJake
06-11-2005, 07:22 PM
As was suggested above, this is not realistic.

If the Mets took on Casey's guaranteed $8.5 salary for next year, then they'd probably send us Mientkiewicz (who has a $450,000 buyout for next year) rather than a prospect.

The Reds could put that money toward signing Dunn long term if they're smart, or toward another distaster like Milton, if they're not smart.

I see where you're coming from but I wouldn't make that trade. The Mets need Casey or another first baseman. They've gotten zero production there and the pressure to win is immense. If Casey can be painted as the solution to their problem at firstbase, as a probable huge fan favorite and as a key peice to making a second half run then a good GM should be able to get the Mets to overpay. 1 year left at 8.5 mil won't deter the Mets. If Casey had a 3 or 4 years left that would be different. If the Mets don't want to part with at least 1 good prospect (if the deal HAD to include Mientkiewicz) then tell em no thanks, no deal and walk away. Because if you can't walk away and mean it, you'll never get a decent return for anyone.

Here's where O'Brien seems to lack it - he asks for way too much so when he walks away the other teams let him. Ask for a lot to start, know exactly what your wares are really worth, invite a counter offer and walk away only if you're offered less. My problems with trading Casey are:

O'Brien is doing the trading

O'Brien doesn't appear to be any kind of a judge of talent of prospective players & appears to love over the hill veterans - we probably would wind up with Doug M only and OB would think he'd done a great job

O'Brien appears to be a lousy trade negotiator

Even if he landed a couple solid pitching prospects I wonder if the Reds can develop them in the current regime.

WMR
06-11-2005, 07:28 PM
This seems to be the core gripe with Casey as I read through these posts. Most guys are saying "Yeah, Sean's a decent player, but we should be getting more bang for our buck with the salary he's making".

Might be. Not sure what the "typical production" is for a $7+ million a year guy. I know Casey consistently hits over .300 and has some pop in his bat.

But then there's the intangibles. Sean's got a certain charisma that you just can't put a dollar value on. I don't know if there's a better guy you'd want to build your clubhouse around, because Case is a guy that other players love playing with, and playing hard. Most fans see this, and come to the ballpark to watch Sean and his buds havin' fun on the field.

Hasn't been a whole lot of fun this year, but that's mostly because the pitching has been such a disaster.

I'd really, really hate to see the fun-lovin' Sean Casey get traded away for some stone-faced nobody that the front office thinks might put up better numbers.

I think that the "Sean Casey Goodtime Bunch" was having entirely too much fun and that showing Mr. Danny Graves the door was an excellent first step in breaking up the frat party. I, personally, don't care a whit to have a guy who whines and moans about losing his little buddy to the press considered the "leader" of my clubhouse.

Personally, I've never, not once, come to GABP in order to see "Sean and his buds havin' fun on the field." The Goodtime Bunch has had their chance and I'm ready for something different. Don't tell me that we shouldn't consider the money involved, because if you don't consider the money that Sean Casey is making, and compare that money to the value that he provides (ON THE FIELD VALUE, not "manly love can't quite quantify it but,,, damn it he's The Mayor Intrinsic Value").

Adam Dunn needs to play first base, AK, WMP, and KGJ need to play every game in the outfield, and Sean Casey needs to be traded. If we can get some decents prospects in return, all the better.

Maldez
06-11-2005, 09:07 PM
I'd take a stone faced 1B that was younger, cheaper and put up 35HR and 120 RBI's in a heartbeat.

You act like there's a trade for this mythical "35 HR , 120 RBI" guy just sitting there, waiting for DOB to pull the trigger.

Who is this guy that the Reds can trade Sean Casey for? I don't think he exists.

gm
06-11-2005, 09:21 PM
It would take Yusmeiro Petit, Royce Ring and another prospect I really liked for me to pull the trigger.

Good news is I'm pretty sure Minaya would do something like it. He's shown a willingness to part with prospects for a right now return in the past.

How about trying to get Mike Cameron back as part of a Casey deal? Let NY keep Mientk, cuz if the Reds accept him Miley may decide to play him :eek:

lollipopcurve
06-11-2005, 09:50 PM
It would take Yusmeiro Petit, Royce Ring and another prospect I really liked for me to pull the trigger.

I'd ask about Gaby Hernandez and Milledge too. I like the idea of Ring as a complementary piece, too.

Walkerforpres
06-11-2005, 10:00 PM
They'll never, ever give up Milledge. Not for a slightly better 1B than the one they already have.

I wouldn't mind seeing a return of Victor Diaz (who the Mets aren't real high on, but the guy can rake and would be an excellent 4th OF type or even starter in place of Kearns) and a decent pitcher like Heilman or a prospect such as Gaby Hernandez.

Ravenlord
06-11-2005, 10:08 PM
is there anyway to work the Phillies in this to acquire Ryan Howard? wouldn't that be a fun 1B to throw in their with Dunn, Pena, and Lopez?

i'd rather have Heilman though i doubt the Mets would dish him for Casey.

gm
06-11-2005, 10:12 PM
is there anyway to work the Phillies in this to acquire Ryan Howard? wouldn't that be a fun 1B to throw in their with Dunn, Pena, and Lopez?

Haven't looked up his stats, but I was sure impressed with Howard's swing, earlier this month

ericthered
06-11-2005, 10:18 PM
I have heard that the Braves would love to have Kearns. I know Casey gets paid a bunch, but we need someone that can make contact in our lineup. Pena, Griffey, Kearns, and Dunn all K a lot. I love Austin Kearns, but I think he has to be the odd man out. Will he go to Atlanta and hit .315 with 25 HRs and drive in 120 in a season, very possible. But you can't keep everyone in that clubhouse happy!

Ravenlord
06-11-2005, 10:24 PM
Haven't looked up his stats, but I was sure impressed with Howard's swing, earlier this month
Year Level AB H 2B 3B HR BB AVG OBP SLG Age
2001 A 169 46 7 3 6 30 272 385 456 21
2002 A 493 138 20 6 19 66 280 367 460 22
2003 A 490 149 32 1 23 50 304 374 514 23
2004 AA 374 111 18 1 37 46 297 386 647 24
2004 AAA 111 30 10 0 9 14 270 362 604 24
2004 MLB 39 11 5 0 2 2 282 333 564 24
2005 AAA 141 50 14 0 11 24 355 446 688 25
2005 MLB 28 6 2 0 1 2 214 267 393 25

gm
06-11-2005, 10:38 PM
Year Level AB H 2B 3B HR BB AVG OBP SLG Age
2001 A 169 46 7 3 6 30 272 385 456 21
2002 A 493 138 20 6 19 66 280 367 460 22
2003 A 490 149 32 1 23 50 304 374 514 23
2004 AA 374 111 18 1 37 46 297 386 647 24
2004 AAA 111 30 10 0 9 14 270 362 604 24
2004 MLB 39 11 5 0 2 2 282 333 564 24
2005 AAA 141 50 14 0 11 24 355 446 688 25
2005 MLB 28 6 2 0 1 2 214 267 393 25


I cipher that's a 1.134 OPS this year @ AAA. And Thome/Burrell are "blocking" him. Yikes

WVRed
06-11-2005, 10:54 PM
You act like there's a trade for this mythical "35 HR , 120 RBI" guy just sitting there, waiting for DOB to pull the trigger.

Who is this guy that the Reds can trade Sean Casey for? I don't think he exists.

He does, and he is already on the Cincinnati Reds roster.

:dunn:

Ravenlord
06-11-2005, 11:09 PM
I cipher that's a 1.134 OPS this year @ AAA. And Thome/Burrell are "blocking" him. YikesDave Dombrowski should have thrown in Andrew Good and Jay Sborz in his trade to Philadelphia to try and land Howard.

Urbina+Good+Sborz for Polanco+Howard.

kyred14
06-12-2005, 12:04 AM
You act like there's a trade for this mythical "35 HR , 120 RBI" guy just sitting there, waiting for DOB to pull the trigger.

Who is this guy that the Reds can trade Sean Casey for? I don't think he exists.

dunn, adam

except he will be more like 45-50 HRs

macro
06-12-2005, 01:02 AM
I think that the "Sean Casey Goodtime Bunch" was having entirely too much fun and that showing Mr. Danny Graves the door was an excellent first step in breaking up the frat party. I, personally, don't care a whit to have a guy who whines and moans about losing his little buddy to the press considered the "leader" of my clubhouse.

Personally, I've never, not once, come to GABP in order to see "Sean and his buds havin' fun on the field." The Goodtime Bunch has had their chance and I'm ready for something different. Don't tell me that we shouldn't consider the money involved, because if you don't consider the money that Sean Casey is making, and compare that money to the value that he provides (ON THE FIELD VALUE, not "manly love can't quite quantify it but,,, damn it he's The Mayor Intrinsic Value").

Adam Dunn needs to play first base, AK, WMP, and KGJ need to play every game in the outfield, and Sean Casey needs to be traded. If we can get some decents prospects in return, all the better.

WilyMo, you just saved me a bunch of keystrokes. Well said.

Ravenlord
06-12-2005, 02:01 AM
if Casey keeps up his paces this year, he'll be getting paid $120,370 for each run he creates. last year the rate was $59,549 per run created, the year before $70,948 per run created. taken all together, Casey cost per run from 2002 to present is $76,565.

not sure how that compares to other 1B though, as i don't know their contracts well enough to do it.

LINEDRIVER
06-12-2005, 06:45 AM
Doug Mientkiewicz is slick with the glove but is hitting .206 with the Mets thru June 11, 2005.

I just read another what I call a 'RedsZone loose statement' whereas this one says that Dunn will become a decent first baseman. My question is this, .... Dunn becomes a decent first baseman? Based on what? Wanting to play first base? Working hard to be better? Good hands? speed? agility? instincts? Fill me in cuz I'm not seeing any of that.

Let's be careful for what we wish for. If Casey is traded and Dunn goes to 1B, what happens next? We then go thru Austin Householder's, er uh, I mean Kearns' 1-for-19 funks and Dunn will quickly become well known as the worst fielding 1B in the NL. However, Dunn still plays 1B, hits his 45 HR's and eventually takes the Yankee's or Rangers offer of 11 mill a yr for 3 yrs to DH.

Maldez
06-12-2005, 11:00 AM
Personally, I've never, not once, come to GABP in order to see "Sean and his buds havin' fun on the field." The Goodtime Bunch has had their chance and I'm ready for something different. Don't tell me that we shouldn't consider the money involved, because if you don't consider the money that Sean Casey is making, and compare that money to the value that he provides (ON THE FIELD VALUE, not "manly love can't quite quantify it but,,, damn it he's The Mayor Intrinsic Value").

I'm sure someone like yourself doesn't connect with anything so childish as having fun playing baseball. I was speaking of the families I see with their ten year old sons wearing Casey jerseys.

As for money considerations, why do posters of this board preoccupy themselves with the Reds finances? Like tycoon Carl Lindner hasn't quite figured it out and you guys are here to straighten the poor chump out.

westofyou
06-12-2005, 11:42 AM
As for money considerations, why do posters of this board preoccupy themselves with the Reds finances? Like tycoon Carl Lindner hasn't quite figured it out and you guys are here to straighten the poor chump out.

When free agency became a part of the game it became part of the fans problems.

What I can't understand is why you think it's not part of today's game, plus Lindner has really been good at this baseball stuff eh?

Marc D
06-12-2005, 12:05 PM
I'm sure someone like yourself doesn't connect with anything so childish as having fun playing baseball. I was speaking of the families I see with their ten year old sons wearing Casey jerseys.

As for money considerations, why do posters of this board preoccupy themselves with the Reds finances? Like tycoon Carl Lindner hasn't quite figured it out and you guys are here to straighten the poor chump out.

As a former 10 year old boy who had loads of fun playing baseball I can tell you for a certainty they will be having just as much fun after Casey's gone and wearing someone else's jersey.

As far as peoccupying ourselves with the teams finances goes, I'll quit worrying about them when we stop having bad ballclubs because of them. Untill then when I continue to hear terms like "small market team" and "be competitive in todays market" multiple times after yet another sub .500 year I'll keep finances in the forefront of my mind.

If you think Lindner has figured anything out about baseball and needs no help then I just don't know what to say. Obviously we live in two different worlds.

savafan
06-12-2005, 12:21 PM
Mark McGwire was a pretty poor fielding first baseman, but you never heard anyone complain about it.

WMR
06-12-2005, 01:39 PM
I'm sure someone like yourself doesn't connect with anything so childish as having fun playing baseball. I was speaking of the families I see with their ten year old sons wearing Casey jerseys.

As for money considerations, why do posters of this board preoccupy themselves with the Reds finances? Like tycoon Carl Lindner hasn't quite figured it out and you guys are here to straighten the poor chump out.

No, Maldez, I think that having fun while playing baseball is a great thing. As far as a professional ball club is concerned, however, I care alot more about results than whether or not everybody is having a good time and is buddy-buddy with not only his own teammates but apparently the rest of MLB as well.

I also know several quite savvy ten-year old Reds fans who are less than enthused with a light-hitting first baseman with a propensity for Grounding Into Double Plays (his contract notwithstanding).

Oh, and btw, there's plenty of WMP and Dunn jerseys available! ;)

Carl Lindner's business-world acumen and his baseball IQ are two entirely different matters. Every team in Major League Baseball (even the Yankees) operates on a budget of some form or another. The Yanks could have had Carlos Beltran, but they went with Randy Johnson instead. The Reds could have signed Dunn to a LTC, but instead we've got Eric "Let Me Serve Ya Up A" Milton for the next 3 years (does anybody really think he'll hesitate from exercising that third year option if things continue like they currently are?) The Milton contract, for the foreseeable future at least, is one that the Reds will be stuck with.

Sean Casey, however, has been identified as a guy who a couple of different teams have some real interest in acquiring. Lo and behold, the Reds have a hard-hitting, high .OPSing LFer who is a constant defensive liability (::cough cough Fly ball cough cough::) and would fit in nicely at first base. The Casey contract would free up some much-needed salary; money that could possibly be used to sign Lopez LT, finally get a deal done with Dunn (huh?), etc. etc. etc. In other words, it would not only solve the logjam in the outfield, it would improve the Reds defensively (AK is our best defensive outfielder, and he's currently sitting next to Miley on a nightly basis), possibly improve them offensively (AK has been an enigma for far too long, it is time to give him an extended run: I, for one think he'll be a success), and undoubtedly improve the Reds bottom-line which, for a small-market team like the Reds, must be an issue which is constantly being examined and scrutinized.

M2
06-12-2005, 02:00 PM
I'm sure someone like yourself doesn't connect with anything so childish as having fun playing baseball.

If I want to have fun playing baseball, I'll go out and play some baseball. When I spend my time and/or money watching professional baseball my expectation is that a certain level of quality be attached to it.

Maldez
06-12-2005, 04:37 PM
If I want to have fun playing baseball, I'll go out and play some baseball. When I spend my time and/or money watching professional baseball my expectation is that a certain level of quality be attached to it.

As I type this, Sean Casey is 3 for 4 on the day, and batting .326 on the season. Explain to me just what "level of quality" is lacking in that?

As for Sean's penchant for having fun on the field, you guys make it sound like that somehow detracts from his game.

Maldez
06-12-2005, 04:48 PM
No, Maldez, I think that having fun while playing baseball is a great thing. As far as a professional ball club is concerned, however, I care alot more about results than whether or not everybody is having a good time and is buddy-buddy with not only his own teammates but apparently the rest of MLB as well.

What is it in Sean Casey's .326 BA that makes you feel he isn't getting "results"?




I also know several quite savvy ten-year old Reds fans who are less than enthused with a light-hitting first baseman with a propensity for Grounding Into Double Plays (his contract notwithstanding).


Again, how does a .326 BA translate into "light-hitting"?




The Reds could have signed Dunn to a LTC, but instead we've got Eric "Let Me Serve Ya Up A" Milton for the next 3 years ...The Milton contract, for the foreseeable future at least, is one that the Reds will be stuck with.

Well, now you're onto something. You're criticizing the signing of a player with a mediocre track record to a huge contract, only to see that player's performance plummet far below even "mediocre". You'll get no argument from me on this one.

Only, lets point the finger of blame where it belongs, squarely at Dan O'Brien, not Carl Lindner.

westofyou
06-12-2005, 04:50 PM
As I type this, Sean Casey is 3 for 4 on the day, and batting .326 on the season. Explain to me just what "level of quality" is lacking in that?

3 singles and a GIDP, a fine day if you're Bip Roberts.

Personally I like hits, but speed helps if you are a singles hitter.

westofyou
06-12-2005, 04:55 PM
Again, how does a .326 BA translate into "light-hitting"?

19 EBH in 250 AB's, 1 every 13.5 ab's, Brady Clark has 19 EBH too.

WMR
06-12-2005, 07:05 PM
LOL, I'd respond myself but WoY has put things as well as I possibly could! :)

M2
06-12-2005, 07:57 PM
As I type this, Sean Casey is 3 for 4 on the day, and batting .326 on the season. Explain to me just what "level of quality" is lacking in that?

I'm not talking about Casey (and I'll repeat again, I've got no problem with his game). I'm talking about a Reds team that's in the middle of a five-year funk. If trading Sean Casey helps get the team out of that rut, then I'm for it.

If Casey can land you the kind of advanced prospect arm (plus appealing extras) currently unaccounted for in the Reds' system, then the Reds have got to do it. Stop trying to hold together a condemned building and break out the demolition crew already.

The_jbh
06-12-2005, 08:37 PM
Casey is #8 in the NL in hits with 73, 25th in OBP with .380 (which i deem more important than his #8 batting average), tied for 17th in doubles with like 9 other player. He hasn't sturck out now in like what, 20 ABs? he is 4th in the majors in at bats b4 a K or whatever that stat is correct? One of people on this board's primary complaint has been that we strikeout to much. those same people want casey traded... I don't get it.

Yes his OPS is 42nd in the league but that is still larger than these elite hitters...

Todd Helton
Carlos Beltran
Marcus Giles
Phil Nevin
Mike Piazza

And atlest he is getting on, the problem is people arent driving him in. Yes he is slow but how many 1st basemen in the league arent. He still has scored 30 runs and driven in 30 runs. That's a large chunk of an offense. Plus the guy is a clubhouse leader, and a influential person in the community.

I'm not even a Sean Casey fun but it's clear to me that he is something that is right in this franchise.

and his 8.25 millino contract? In the grand scheme of things, why is that a problem right now? we arent going to add a 10 million dollar ace during the season... why unload him now, especially when he's one of the few things going for us right now? Kearns is now in AAA getting abs. there is no urgency for a deal.

One of Billy Beane's 5 rules of trading is "The day you say you have to do something, you're screwed because u are going to make a bad deal."
quoted from Moneyball

Well we shouldnt be dealing casey to deal casey. It needs to be the exact right deal, and thats should not be a bucket of balls or whoever we can get like many of u out there think. Sean Casey is worth way more than that, the rest of the league knows it and i bet DanO knows it too

OldXOhio
06-12-2005, 08:45 PM
Sean Casey is worth way more than that, the rest of the league knows it

yes, he's worth 8 mil a season....one of the reasons he needs to be traded.

we'll see if the rest of the league knows it as you say. By your accounts, he ought to command some rather hefty prospects then.


and i bet DanO knows it too

Sure you want to take that bet? Perhaps you've seen something out of DanO to allow you to make that statement, but I haven't.

The_jbh
06-12-2005, 08:49 PM
yes, he's worth 8 mil a season....one of the reasons he needs to be traded.

why? what is your case here? why should he be traded? we won't do anything with the spare 8 million dollars this season anyways... and who is to trust DanO with another 10 mil? so he can buy another milton? i'd rather keep Casey in our line up, clubhouse, and community

Marc D
06-12-2005, 09:16 PM
No one is advocating giving Casey away for whatever you can get back. Also I have yet to see anyone say he's a bad ballplayer. What most are saying is that he is overpaid for his on the field production for this team. The off the field stuff is great and if it were a bordeline situation, imo it would tip the scale toward keeping him.

However, the fact of the matter is that he commands roughly 13% of the Reds total payroll and his power numbers from the 3 hole are well below league average. WOY and many others have demonstrated this time and time again.

Also, a big part of the equation is how he is logjamming the OF'ers due to Dunns ability to play 1B in his stead. I would prefer to see them stick with Kearns as he is younger, cheaper and has a bigger upside than Casey.

As far as Dan O using the money saved on Casey wisely, well that's the million dollar question. However, I for one am ready for a change. Casey was considerd an untouchable and was a core member of that '99 squad. Well that dog has had his day and I'm ready to say goodbye to the whole sordid affair. We can lose 90+ with him or we can lose 90+ without him but unless we try something new and attempt to move foreward its never going to get any better.

If someone will give quality prospects for him and take on Casey's contract you do it wether it be at the trade deadline or during the off season. All of this assumes we had a GM who could ensure actual talent is coming the other way and would use the payflex wisely in order to help the team.

The_jbh
06-12-2005, 09:24 PM
Casey doesn't belong in the 3 hole, it's simple as that. How can u fault him for that? That's miley's fault. Casey belongs in the 5 spot where his singles and doubles keep rallies going and drive in the big boppers... SO i cant really see how u can hold himbeing below the league average for a 3 hole hitter against him.

I'd have our line up
Freel
Lopez
Dunn
Willy Mo
Casey
Griffey
Randa
LaRue

and as for Kearns as a cheaper alternative, he has yet to produce. I love kearns, i ued to live in lexington KY and watched him play in HS. But the fact of the matter is he is a HUGE drop off from sean casey until he can prove otherwise.

Marc D
06-12-2005, 09:42 PM
13% of the payroll is still simply too much to pay a slow footed singles hitter no matter where you put him in the lineup.

Also if Kearns does indeed wash out, trading Casey and putting Dunn at 1B means you open a corner OF spot to find a player who can OPS over.800 (iirc Caseys career OPS is .840 ish??). You can get this kind of production from a corner OF far more readily and cheaply than 8M a year. Will it be in 2005? NO. But '05 is shot anyway, build for the future.

You are simply never going to convince me its a good idea to spend that percentage of a teams resources on a singles hitter who isn't a table setter with speed to burn.

Ravenlord
06-12-2005, 09:57 PM
Also if Kearns does indeed wash out, trading Casey and putting Dunn at 1B means you open a corner OF spot to find a player who can OPS over.800 (iirc Caseys career OPS is .840 ish??). You can get this kind of production from a corner OF far more readily and cheaply than 8M a year. Will it be in 2005? NO. But '05 is shot anyway, build for the future.Rob Stratton?

The_jbh
06-12-2005, 09:57 PM
I just dont see us spend that money else where. A mediocore pitcher than O'Brien can convince to sign with us isnt going to take this team to the WS. THat 8mil will just go straight to Lindners pocket. Player development is what is going to do it, and that just gonna take time. If Kearns starts tearing AAA up, then maybe i'd consider dealing casey a little more, but at this point, there is no reason to trade such a hunk of our offense, just to get him off payroll.

Plus not too many teams are willing to take an 8mil contract completely off some1s hands anywayz

buckeyenut
06-12-2005, 10:11 PM
Rob Stratton?

Might be Rob Stratton, might be Kenny Kelly, might be Joey Votto, might be Jay Bruce, who knows. But far easier to find than we might think.

OldXOhio
06-12-2005, 10:29 PM
Plus not too many teams are willing to take an 8mil contract completely off some1s hands anywayz

So you acknowledge his price tag is an overriding factor.

What the FO would do w/ an added 8 mil to spend remains to be seen. I don't have confidence in DanO's ability to use it wisely either, but that doesn't mean that the status quo should remain. This team still has some huge pitching needs and a decision to make on Adam Dunn. I would rather have the opportunity to address at least one of those than to see the high priced, slow footed, 31 year old Sean Casey and his penchant for singles in a Reds uniform. His ability to generate runs is replaceable and can be done at a lesser cost. His clubhouse presence will be missed, but last I checked this team was in last place.....the rest of the team would somehow survive.

M2
06-12-2005, 10:36 PM
I just dont see us spend that money else where. A mediocore pitcher than O'Brien can convince to sign with us isnt going to take this team to the WS. THat 8mil will just go straight to Lindners pocket. Player development is what is going to do it, and that just gonna take time. If Kearns starts tearing AAA up, then maybe i'd consider dealing casey a little more, but at this point, there is no reason to trade such a hunk of our offense, just to get him off payroll.

Plus not too many teams are willing to take an 8mil contract completely off some1s hands anywayz

I disagree. I think there's plenty of teams for whom the $8M is a sneeze. This thread got started on the Mets so let's just focus on them. It's no exaggeration to say Sean Casey might be enough to put that team over the top. What's the worth in NYC? He'd be a great fit with that club.

And, for me, the money's a secondary reason to trade Casey. IMO, the reason to trade Casey is to bring in a player haul that moves forward the rebuilding process. The Mets could use Casey, the Angels could use Casey, the Red Sox could use Casey, the Yankees could use Casey, the White Sox could use Casey.

If the Reds were a contender, no way I'd deal Casey. He'd be a great guy to have on a better team, but the Reds have incompetent pitching and there's no simple, quick fix that's going to change that.

You say player development is the magic bullet, yet look at the Reds' pipeline. It's practically empty, especially in terms of pitching. If you want to rebuild the Reds pitching with player development you might be talking about doing it with players that won't be drafted until a next year and the years after it. So why keep Sean Casey around waiting for a train that's not coming? Makes no sense to me. The Reds have to understand where they are and that if this team wants to compete before 2010, the bulk of the pitching staff is going to have to be guys who currently pitch somewhere else.

Marc D
06-12-2005, 10:37 PM
Might be Rob Stratton, might be Kenny Kelly, might be Joey Votto, might be Jay Bruce, who knows. But far easier to find than we might think.

You could get Laverne back from St Louis for about 4M iirc. His career OPS is within a point or two of Casey's.

Bottom line is that OF's with low .800 OPS aren't that rare and due to a higher supply the price is much cheaper. You can get one for the 3-4M range after he's established, if you develop your own they cost 300-400k a year untill the next ones ready to take over.

Maldez
06-13-2005, 12:12 AM
Casey is #8 in the NL in hits with 73, 25th in OBP with .380 (which i deem more important than his #8 batting average), tied for 17th in doubles with like 9 other player. He hasn't sturck out now in like what, 20 ABs? he is 4th in the majors in at bats b4 a K or whatever that stat is correct? One of people on this board's primary complaint has been that we strikeout to much. those same people want casey traded... I don't get it.

Yes his OPS is 42nd in the league but that is still larger than these elite hitters...

Todd Helton
Carlos Beltran
Marcus Giles
Phil Nevin
Mike Piazza

And atlest he is getting on, the problem is people arent driving him in. Yes he is slow but how many 1st basemen in the league arent. He still has scored 30 runs and driven in 30 runs. That's a large chunk of an offense. Plus the guy is a clubhouse leader, and a influential person in the community.

I'm not even a Sean Casey fun but it's clear to me that he is something that is right in this franchise.

and his 8.25 millino contract? In the grand scheme of things, why is that a problem right now? we arent going to add a 10 million dollar ace during the season... why unload him now, especially when he's one of the few things going for us right now? Kearns is now in AAA getting abs. there is no urgency for a deal.

One of Billy Beane's 5 rules of trading is "The day you say you have to do something, you're screwed because u are going to make a bad deal."
quoted from Moneyball

Well we shouldnt be dealing casey to deal casey. It needs to be the exact right deal, and thats should not be a bucket of balls or whoever we can get like many of u out there think. Sean Casey is worth way more than that, the rest of the league knows it and i bet DanO knows it too

Well, at least SOMEBODY on this board doesn't have their brain fogged-up.

WMR
06-13-2005, 12:14 AM
Well, at least SOMEBODY on this board doesn't have their brain fogged-up.

Classy.

KearnsyEars
06-13-2005, 10:38 AM
I dont wanna do this because dunn doesnt wanna play first......keep dunn happy, leave him in left.

FeartheEars
06-13-2005, 01:57 PM
I really don't think it is right to keep a player happy by keeping them in a position that they suck at. Who says Dunn can't be just as happy at first with a better team around him and winning more games. I am sick and tired of professional athletes being able to make decisions about where they play and what not. Do something for whats best for the team for a change.

The_jbh
06-13-2005, 08:14 PM
Moving to first base affects his career a lot. He goes from an upper echelon OF to an upper midecheclon 1bman. 1bman are a lot less valuable than outfielders. plus he doesnt think he is very good at 1st.

If it impacts his career why shouldn't he have a say? If you got moved from your job position in which you are less valued, wouldn't you be upset or unwilling?
Or what if u got moved to a position in your job with less possiblity to move up the corporate ladder (a better business world example i guess)... I think you'd want a say

Tony Cloninger
06-13-2005, 08:18 PM
I am sorry but how does moving to 1st lower his value?

When he plays the OF like Lonnie "Skates" Smith.....his value is down as an OF.

It did not hurt Pete Rose to move around so much. He did it. For the team.

When Votto comes up in about 2 years (we hope) then Dunn can move back to the OF.