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View Full Version : Tom Cruise Rips Psychiatry on NBC's Today Show



Dom Heffner
06-25-2005, 05:51 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8344309/

(Link to story and you can also launch the interview)

Anybody see this? I was embarassed for Cruise personally. Either Matt Lauer was being respectful, or he isn't a very good interviewer.

Cruise called Lauer "glib," and told him that he shouldn't be talking about the benefits of Ritalin without knowing the history behind it. Lauer wasn't doing that, but Cruise was just a jerk to Matt, I thought.

A good cross-examiner could have torn Cruise to shreds, but Lauer was either being polite or he doesn't know how to argue.

Cruise said he always had doubts about psychiatry, and then said once he studied it, he knew it was bogus. Lauer should have called him on perhaps not being the most unbiased source in the world. Descartes set out to prove the existence of god and lo and behold, he did, even though his proofs are as faulty as an I-75 construction project.

As well, Cruise kept saying that he had studied up on all the drugs and research that goes into their development and distribution and has come to the conclusion that they are harmful. What Lauer never, ever questioned Cruise on is what type of publications he used for his study, where he got them, how he tested for truth, etc. The giant assumption in Cruise's argument was that the things he read were medically accurate and unbiased and that he understood them and was representing their contents accurately. Lauer said it was "impressive" to hear Cruise talk, but a good actor could tell him that the moon is on fire, impressively - sounding believable is what actors do for a living.

Call me cynical, but I would have a hard time believing the average person can even begin to grasp modern medicine, yet alone someone who would be doing it in their spare time away from movie sets.

savafan
06-25-2005, 05:56 PM
Cruise may be right. I've worked five years in the mental health field, and I've spoken with psychiatrists who say that ritalin is more harmful than helpful.

creek14
06-25-2005, 06:04 PM
Tom is starting to make Jacko look less wacko.

westofyou
06-25-2005, 06:05 PM
Cruise may be right. I've worked five years in the mental health field, and I've spoken with psychiatrists who say that ritalin is more harmful than helpful.

I'll dispute that.

Dom Heffner
06-25-2005, 06:07 PM
Cruise may be right. I've worked five years in the mental health field, and I've spoken with psychiatrists who say that ritalin is more harmful than helpful.

Fair enough, and Lauer even was saying that he didn't advocate placing everyone on Ritalin. I personally think Ritalin works for some people - it would almost have to.

Even outside of Ritalin, Cruise said there was no such thing as a "chemical imbalance," and that these things can be cured with vitamins and exercise. Your thoughts on this would be appreciated, if you have anything to share.

I have known people who have suffered from serious depression and I just don't think geritol and a run around the block is going to help :)

creek14
06-25-2005, 06:13 PM
But Cruise said there was no such thing as a "chemical imbalance," and that these things can be cured with vitamins and exercise.
Well Tommy boy, I have a degree in Psychology and I worked in the field for about 10 years and I can tell you there is such a thing as chemical imbalance.

I am so sick and tired of "celebrities" spouting off about things they have no clue about. He reads a few L Ron books and suddenly he's a freaking expert.

Frankly he looked like he was suffering from some sort of imbalance when he was jumping all over Oprah's couch.

savafan
06-25-2005, 06:14 PM
Fair enough, and Lauer even was saying that he didn't advocate placing everyone on Ritalin. I personally think Ritalin works for some people - it would almost have to.

Even outside of Ritalin, Cruise said there was no such thing as a "chemical imbalance," and that these things can be cured with vitamins and exercise. Your thoughts on this would be appreciated, if you have anything to share.

I have known people who have suffered from serious depression and I just don't think geritol and a run around the block is going to help :)


Honestly, it is so very difficult to say. We've come a long way in the last million years, but there is still so far to go. The facts are that there are a lot of theories. There are people who claim that they've been cured by vitamins and exercise. I had a cancerous tumor in my shoulder and got rid of it using vitamins, exercise and an organic diet. It's not that far fetched.

That hasn't worked for everyone that has tried it though. Some have found success with ritalin, however others have regressed further.

The human mind and the human body are such strange things. What works for some doesn't always seem to work for everyone.

savafan
06-25-2005, 06:15 PM
I'll also say this.

Cults are a scary thing.

Based on experience.

RedsBaron
06-25-2005, 06:19 PM
I had a couple of depositions yesterday. Before the first one started I was chatting with the court reporter, who immediately asked me if I had seen Lauer's interview of Cruise (I hadn't, as I rarely watch the "Today" show). The court reporter then went on at some length about how rude and weird she thought Cruise was.

Reds4Life
06-25-2005, 06:23 PM
I am so sick and tired of "celebrities" spouting off about things they have no clue about. He reads a few L Ron books and suddenly he's a freaking expert.

No kidding. I have no idea why he's on this personal crusade against Brooke Shields for taking anti-depressants to help her with post partum. What business is it of his what she takes? Tom needs to keep his mouth shut when it comes to matters that don't concern him.

MWM
06-25-2005, 06:23 PM
I watched it online today and Cruise was incredibly condescending and aloof, like he was an expert simply because he's read a few research publications (I'm sure picked out for him by the Scientology leaders). He was very much, "you don't know what you're talking about and I do." He looked ridiculous especially considering the guy never even graduated from High School.

Dom Heffner
06-25-2005, 06:44 PM
I watched it online today and Cruise was incredibly condescending and aloof, like he was an expert simply because he's read a few research publications (I'm sure picked out for him by the Scientology leaders). He was very much, "you don't know what you're talking about and I do." He looked ridiculous especially considering the guy never even graduated from High School.

MWM, thanks for saying this. I felt exactly the same way, though some have come to Cruise's defense. What seemed inherently lost on Cruise was that just because Lauer could not defend psychiatry, it did not make Cruise right. He didn't offer any evidence, just that he had done the research and determined that it was bunk.

I truly like Tom Cruise- I think he is an American legend, even- but when celebrities do this, I just want to go bury my head for them out of embarrassment.

Falls City Beer
06-25-2005, 07:44 PM
Well Tommy boy, I have a degree in Psychology and I worked in the field for about 10 years and I can tell you there is such a thing as chemical imbalance.

I am so sick and tired of "celebrities" spouting off about things they have no clue about. He reads a few L Ron books and suddenly he's a freaking expert.

Frankly he looked like he was suffering from some sort of imbalance when he was jumping all over Oprah's couch.

If there were a smiley that performed the Jerry Springer, "Woot, Woot!" fist-pump, I'd give you one right now.

So this will have to do: :clap:

letsgojunior
06-25-2005, 07:50 PM
Maybe Tom should be forced to go through the symptoms of post-partum depression before he's allowed to comment on how to treat it. If he's such an expert, specifically what vitamins and what type of exercise should be done? There's a number of vitamins/minerals that have been known to regulate various aspects of a woman's mood - specifically magnesium, vitamin B-6, etc. Which vitamins and how much? I've yet to see any literature on depression elucidate a specific vitamin imbalance prevalent in all cases. There is no common "red flag" in all depression cases, at least not one that I'm aware of. That's why "vitamin usage" is as hit and miss as other therapies.

I do agree with his premise that there are a number of dangerous side effects to medications such as Paxil. That said, people should be able to make their own decisions, and he should keep his mouth shut about what Brooke Shields is doing. Just because he's a big movie star doesn't mean he's an expert on mental health. He's consistently coming off as condescending and arrogant on a subject where there are still a lot of unknowns. He should stick to being a fake sports agent and saving the world from aliens.

Redsfaithful
06-25-2005, 07:58 PM
Scientologists are insane. Nothing new there.

Jaycint
06-25-2005, 08:01 PM
I am so fed up with this guy. How many times has he been in the news the past two weeks spouting off about his religious views and how everybody else is wrong? I know he has a movie coming out so he needs to talk about that instead. Nobody cares about your science fiction writer invented religion Tom.

Unassisted
06-25-2005, 08:01 PM
I don't agree with Tom's position on most things, but I do appreciate that he put that vapid stooge Matt Lauer in his place. Matt and his ilk feign expertise in most things and with the lightest of preparation go for the ambush in interviews. Cruise called his bluff and I think that's cool. I only wish he had turned the tables on Katie Couric, who I find shrill, inane and completely without merit.

Cruise also called out David Letterman during his appearance on the Late Show for using the exact same list of questions as he had used during Cruise's last appearance in 2003. Letterman has gotten lazy, seeming to be just "phoning it in" for the last few years and Cruise exposed him. I doubt we'll see TC on The Late Show again. :lol:

Jaycint
06-25-2005, 08:03 PM
I doubt we'll see TC on The Late Show again. :lol:

I'd be happy if we didn't see him period, given his apparent descent into insanity over the last month or two.

Yachtzee
06-25-2005, 08:08 PM
Well, you know Tom did play a doctor in "Eyes Wide Shut."

http://drtomcruisemd.blogspot.com/

Falls City Beer
06-25-2005, 08:11 PM
I don't agree with Tom's position on most things, but I do appreciate that he put that vapid stooge Matt Lauer in his place. Matt and his ilk feign expertise in most things and with the lightest of preparation go for the ambush in interviews. Cruise called his bluff and I think that's cool. I only wish he had turned the tables on Katie Couric, who I find shrill, inane and completely without merit.

Cruise also called out David Letterman during his appearance on the Late Show for using the exact same list of questions as he had used during Cruise's last appearance in 2003. Letterman has gotten lazy, seeming to be just "phoning it in" for the last few years and Cruise exposed him. I doubt we'll see TC on The Late Show again. :lol:

People who are on-the-muscle like Tom generally always catch normal people unawares.

They're called nut cases.

Unassisted
06-25-2005, 08:23 PM
People who are on-the-muscle like Tom generally always catch normal people unawares.

They're called nut cases.I'm not buying that he's really over the edge. I believe it's all part of the publicity campaign. He's a trained actor and he's using the publicity campaign and in-your-face persona as a role of its own. Although, I do believe Tom is diverting from the publicity script in an effort to hold the spotlight and do some freelance evangelization for his "religion."

Falls City Beer
06-25-2005, 08:25 PM
I'm not buying that he's really over the edge. I believe it's all part of the publicity campaign. He's a trained actor and he's using the publicity campaign and in-your-face persona as a role of its own. Although, I do believe Tom is diverting from the publicity script in an effort to hold the spotlight and do some freelance evangelization for his "religion."

I have no clinical expertise, so I can't say if he's clinically mentally ill, but expressing your devotion to Scientology, in my book, makes you either a fool or nut case.

westofyou
06-25-2005, 08:42 PM
I'm not buying that he's really over the edge. I believe it's all part of the publicity campaign. He's a trained actor and he's using the publicity campaign and in-your-face persona as a role of its own. Although, I do believe Tom is diverting from the publicity script in an effort to hold the spotlight and do some freelance evangelization for his "religion."

My inside sources from Hollywood tell me that pictures of Tom having a "tryst" with another man are floating out ther and the Tabloids have banded together to try and outbid the Scientolgy backed bid for the photo's.

In an attempt to help cover it up he has pursued many A list women hoping to find the right one (Scarlett Johanson quit MI3 because of his scientology pressure) Cruise first met his current flame after his assiatant scheduled a meeting in his office.

How romantic.

pedro
06-25-2005, 08:50 PM
I'm no fan of Matt Lauer, even though he is a follow Bobcat, but I thought Cruise was really a jerk in that interview.

letsgojunior
06-25-2005, 09:01 PM
My inside sources from Hollywood tell me that pictures of Tom having a "tryst" with another man are floating out ther and the Tabloids have banded together to try and outbid the Scientolgy backed bid for the photo's.

In an attempt to help cover it up he has pursued many A list women hoping to find the right one (Scarlett Johanson quit MI3 because of his scientology pressure) Cruise first met his current flame after his assiatant scheduled a meeting in his office.

How romantic.

Wow... seriously? I heard the rumors about Scarlett quitting MI3, and Cruise pursuing other younger leading actresses like Kate Bosworth, but not the first part.

MWM
06-25-2005, 09:01 PM
My inside sources from Hollywood tell me that pictures of Tom having a "tryst" with another man are floating out ther and the Tabloids have banded together to try and outbid the Scientolgy backed bid for the photo's.

Well, I don't have any inside sources other than a good friend of mine who was an aspiring actor in LA for many years (before coming to his senses). But he told me several years ago that the word within the industry was that Cruise was gay. He also said the same thing about Keanu Reeves.

GAC
06-25-2005, 10:23 PM
Cruise called Lauer "glib," and told him that he shouldn't be talking about the benefits of Ritalin without knowing the history behind it.

On this point I agree with Crusie 100%. And so do alot of others within the field of medicine/psychiatry.

I know from personal experience with my on son, who is now 16. We had him on ritalin when he was younger. It wasn't working and was causing other physical problems with my son which required other medications to counter (ex- lack of sleep for one). So we were drugging him to go to school, and then drugging him to get him to sleep at night. He was like Elvis. And through it all, it really wasn't proving beneficial for my son.

We took him of of it years ago (when he was around 8), upon the recommendation of our family physician and another child psychologist we were seeing at the time to help our son in such areas as memory retention and staying on task. And I am so glad we did so.

Ritalin has become the new drug of choice today for hyper-active kids whom our schools can't handle, or don't want to deal with. I was amazed at the number of kids in my son's class that were on ritalin. And a few of them (I knew their parents) were on such large doses (which I realize it's done by body mass); but one could see they were basically drugged and subdued, and their class participation was minimal.

IMO, it's given/prescribed too readily anymore as the easy-all answer to kid's problems. School adminstrative offices are like a pharmacy. I can remember walking into those offices in the morning before school started and seeing kid's lined up for their medication (and the majority of it was ritalin).

I can also remember quite a few heated discussions with teachers and school administrators back then who would tell me that we need to increase our son's dosage. I bluntly asked them "Are you doctors and psychiatrists? What makes you qualified to make such an assessment?"

But I do agree that ritalin may be beneficial for some. But I just wonder how many kids in our schools are on it unnecessarily?

westofyou
06-25-2005, 10:37 PM
Wow... seriously? I heard the rumors about Scarlett quitting MI3, and Cruise pursuing other younger leading actresses like Kate Bosworth, but not the first part.

Yes that's the hub bub from last weekend, BTW I have heard about Cruise for the past 18 years, from different people in the film community.

MWM
06-25-2005, 11:03 PM
I wonder what Kelsey Grammer has to say about this?

RFS62
06-25-2005, 11:10 PM
Tom Cruise debating Matt Lauer on ANY subject. A real pair of intellectuals.

Now that's funny.

Almost as funny as Scientology.

Doc. Scott
06-26-2005, 02:58 AM
I'm no fan of Matt Lauer, even though he is a follow Bobcat, but I thought Cruise was really a jerk in that interview.

Yeah, remember, Lauer got his degree from OU (finally)... when he came back to speak at graduation.

Dom Heffner
06-26-2005, 03:11 AM
I wonder what Kelsey Grammer has to say about this?


Perhaps Alan Alda or Mike Farrell will want to chime in. Maybe the dude who played Winchester is available for a very special edition of Larry King Live. :)

RFS62
06-26-2005, 08:33 AM
Let's not forget Billy Ray Cyrus. I really want to know what he thinks.

pedro
06-26-2005, 01:34 PM
Yeah, remember, Lauer got his degree from OU (finally)... when he came back to speak at graduation.

That's when he made his now famous "towel under the door" comment. :laugh:

creek14
06-26-2005, 01:35 PM
Let's not forget Billy Ray Cyrus. I really want to know what he thinks.
I'm waiting for Roseanne Barr's take on all of this.

savafan
06-26-2005, 02:11 PM
Yes that's the hub bub from last weekend, BTW I have heard about Cruise for the past 18 years, from different people in the film community.

I've heard rumors of Cruise's being gay as well, for quite some time.

savafan
06-26-2005, 02:12 PM
I wonder how Steven Spielberg feels about all of this.

Yachtzee
06-26-2005, 03:17 PM
You know...I wonder what Parker Stevenson has to say about this. I don't think I can really decide how I feel about this important issue until seek advice from the Hardy Boys.

(old Bobcat Goldthwait)

Dom Heffner
06-26-2005, 04:12 PM
Anyone know how Jm J Bullock might feel about Ritalin? Perhaps he might like to share something.

Larkin Fan
06-26-2005, 04:15 PM
Let's not forget Billy Ray Cyrus. I really want to know what he thinks.

He can't speak because of his achey breaky heart.

Larkin Fan
06-26-2005, 04:26 PM
I agree with Tom about Ritalin. Basically, it's a central nervous stimulant that essentially overwhelms the child's nervous system forcing them into a withdrawn, doped up state. Anyone will behave at that point because their body has no other choice.

As far as the rest of Tom's claims, medical science clearly proves that Tom is nuttier than a fruitcake on Christmas.

GAC
06-26-2005, 08:15 PM
There is a problem in our schools now with kids selling ritalin because of the high it produces.

Kurt Cobain was a child raised on ritalin. ;)

http://www.cchr.org/art/eng/page49.htm

Leading pediatric neurologist Dr. Fred Baughman says hyperactivity is “an illusion, a contrivance [and] a deception.” Without a shred of scientific evidence, psychiatrists claim the symptoms of this “disease” include:

* often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat;

* often leaves seat in a classroom or in other situations in which remaining seated is expected;

* often has difficulty playing or engaging in leisure activities quietly;

* is often “on the go” and often talks excessively.

And what of Ritalin? Ritalin is actually an amphetamine-like drug, but in children it acts as a tranquilizer. It’s a Schedule II drug in the same category as opium, cocaine and morphine. Highly addictive, withdrawal from it can cause suicide. Side effects can include: loss of appetite, weight loss, inability to stay asleep, heart palpitations, drowsiness, joint pain, nausea, chest pain and abdominal pain. It can also cause hallucinations and increase bizarre and abnormal behavior.

But doesn’t that sound like some psychiatrist didn’t like Cobain being a typical child – full of energy and, in Cobain’s case, probably full of independent, even precocious action – and thus he put him on a highly addictive and physically dangerous drug to chemically suppress the child in him; to make him sit still?

And if all that is true, couldn’t it underpin everything from his later drug addiction, to his severe physical problems, to his irrational behavior and finally to his suicide?

There is more. In Cobain’s case, Ritalin kept him awake. Consequently other drugs were prescribed to counteract it – sedatives. And despite psychiatry’s claims that Ritalin can help a child study, Cobain was and remained a poor student who dropped out of high school.

After years of prescription drugs, the progression to street drugs was almost a given – a too often repeated consequence of Ritalin. For example, actress Jill Ireland’s adopted son was given Ritalin for childhood “hyperactivity.” She attributed this to his later use of cocaine and heroin. As did another mother, Faye O’Donnell, whose son was prescribed Ritalin and later continued it illegally, then took up “crank” and speed because it made him feel “normal” again. Cobain’s battle with heroin addiction would become widely known over the years, as he repeatedly tried and failed to resolve his dependency.

Compounding the Ritalin were untreated chronic medical conditions which effected him his entire life – including a curvature of his spine, which was aggravated by the weight of his guitar around his neck and a “burning, nauseous” stomach that often drove him to feelings of suicide. In fact, Cobain praised heroin as the only drug that “quenched the fire in his gut.” What nobody mentioned was that abdominal pain is a known side-effect of Ritalin intake by children.

His inherent artistic genius still intact, within a short time of leaving school, he recorded an album and signed with Geffen Records. However, increasingly crowded by the mental and physical legacy of prescribed, mind-altering drugs and ultimately street drugs, Cobain’s drug problem became critical. In desperation, wife Courtney Love and several friends enrolled Cobain in a psychiatric drug recovery center. Thirty-six hours after admission, he bolted from the program and in a small room above his garage in a quiet Seattle neighborhood, ended his life with a single shotgun blast to his head. Heroin and the addictive and potentially harmful psychiatric drug Valium were reportedly found in his bloodstream.

In his suicide note, he alluded to two things that had brought him to suicide – the stomach pain that had haunted him for years, and his agony over his music, about which he wrote, “I don’t have the passion anymore.” Chemically nullified, the music was gone and with this, Kurt Cobain was simply deprived of his prime reason for being.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

So who has benefited? Certainly not the children, as scholastic scores continue to plummet. The beneficiaries have been mental health practitioners such as psychiatrists, psychologists and individuals in some way connected with these groups. By progressively turning our schools into “mental health clinics,” the whole emphasis in education has been shifted from academic to behavioral.

Psychiatry has majorly influenced this shift with its invention of such fictitious mental illnesses as Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) or Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD). Where once an energetic, disruptive child would have been considered just that and handled accordingly, psychiatrists now say he suffers from ADHD and requires special help – their help. Voted in as a “mental illness” by a committee of the American Psychiatric Association, its use has escalated from 500,000 diagnoses in 1988 to 4,400,000 in 1997! And rising!

Psychiatry’s inevitable solution is the drugging of the child with dangerous and addictive amphetamine-like drugs, usually Ritalin, or the central nervous system stimulant, Cylert (pemoline). Once that diagnosis is made, the destiny of that child is no longer in the hands of his or her parents.

More than three million American children, fraudulently labeled as having ADHD – which neurologist Dr. Fred Baughman, Jr. says is “not a disease,” but a “for-profit invention” —are subjected to powerful, mind-altering psychiatric drugs such as amphetamines and Ritalin. As a result, in the U.S. alone, the production of Ritalin increased by 665 percent between 1985 and 1995, with a 500 percent increase since 1990. In some classrooms, up to 20 percent of the students are taking the drug. A further half million children are on antidepressant drugs such as Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRIs). The cost of all this – up to $1.9 billion – would pay for more than 51,900 additional teachers or tutors to provide the extra tutoring that these children really need.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Again - I can only speak from my wife and I's own personal experience with drugs such as Ritalin and Cylert, and their dire effects on our son. From the time our son entered Kindergarten and through the 4th grade we were told these drugs would help, and what was needed in his case. The side effects were just as the ones listed above - loss of appetite, weight loss, inability to stay asleep, heart palpitations, drowsiness, joint pain, nausea, and abdominal pain. And our little boy (at that time) was saying very little about all of this because we, and the Drs, had convinced him (and us) that he needed these drugs, and that they were beneficial to his development. Yet he wasn't performing any better in school, and all we heard from the teachers, administrators, and school psychologists, was that his dosage needed adjusted more and more. We started thinking - Hell, if the dosage he is currently on is causing all these problems, then I'm sure not gonna increase it and put him through more hell! Besides, academically, we weren't seeing any improvement.

The public school said they were unable to teach him how to read at the grade level required. We took him to an outside tutor in Columbus, Ohio, and within the year he was reading at or above the normal level. We were taking him to a child psychologist in Piqua, Ohio, and he recommended, after a year of visits/sessions to increase his memory retention, staying on task, and class participation with his peers (which was non-existent) that we take him off of ritalin (and the other drugs prescribed to counter the effects of ritalin).

We did, and my wife and I are so glad we did so. We got our outgoing and fun-loving child back. He has been in an IEP every year since that 5th grade, and is now getting ready for his Junior year at JVS specializing in computer engineering/programming. The IEP program has provided him with the extra needs/tutoring over the years that has greatly proven to be beneficial to our son.

I, and my brothers, when growing up, were all rambunctious, outgoing, and hyper-active kids. We were full of energy and Mom use to say she couldn't get us to sit down for a second. I guess if we had been born 40 years later we'd have been on ritalin. ;)

My son's two younger siblings are the same way. After our son's experiences, we decided that it took greater parental involvement in both the home and at school. It's a decision we are so glad we made. That is what it takes folks - not drugs.

GAC
06-26-2005, 08:21 PM
How to Score Ritalin

October 3, 2002
by Barbara Sumner Burstyn

So the kids have wised up and following the US trend, have started dealing their Ritalin in the schoolyard. In New Zealand Ritalin retails for around $5 a tablet while in the States the street value is considerably higher - the equivalent of nearly NZ$ 20.00.

And just like in the States, where it's estimated that six million kids are taking the mind-altering drug, New Zealand police have become concerned that parents are pressuring doctors to prescribe Ritalin for their children. Not only as an antidote to the annoyances of parenting but so they can sell it themselves on a growing black market. So perhaps you're also making the connection, wondering how your kid could present with ADHD to help with the family income.

It turns out its not that hard. New Zealand uses the DSM-IV, the US Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, to help diagnose ADHD. In descending order your doctor is looking for at least eight of these fourteen things: A child who often fidgets with hands or squirms in his seat, has difficulty remaining seated and is easily distracted by extraneous stimuli. He needs to show difficulty waiting turn in group situations and he needs to often blurt out answers to questions before they have been completed. He needs to sometimes have difficulty following through on instructions such as his chores or homework and often have difficulty sustaining attention in activities, shifting from one incomplete activity to another. He has to have difficulty playing quietly, he must talk excessively, interrupt or butt into other kids games, not seem to listen to what is said, often losing things at school or home and of course he has to engage in physically dangerous activities without considering possible consequences, like running into the street without looking.

Easy? You bet. Show me a kid that doesn't present with at least half of these 'symptoms', especially before the age of seven - which is the optimum time for diagnosis and he'll be your oddity.

But if you think it's difficult for a doctor accustomed to dealing in science to suddenly have to make a diagnosis based on judgment alone imagine how hard it's been for the scientists doing clinical research into the causes of ADHD, working as they must, with mainly subjective data, cultural and individual perceptions, values and opinion. In fact, only last year the Washington Post reported that they haven't actually tested Ritalin on at least one group of children it's routinely prescribed for, the under six year olds. Seems testing mind altering drugs on little kids was a just a little too sticky.

But outside of Canada, the U.S.A, Australia and New Zealand very few doctors make the diagnosis at all. On the European continent a drug for kids with side effects such as insomnia, decreased appetite, stomach-ache, headache and dizziness is unacceptable. As far back as 1976 Shrag and Divorky, in their book, The Myth of the Hyperactive Child, traced the origin of the diagnosis to advertising campaigns run by drug companies which manufacture cures for social problems.

More recently high profile American lawyer Richard Scruggs accused Novartis Pharmaceutical Corp., makers of the drug Ritalin and the American Psychiatric Association of conspiring to promote an overly broad diagnosis of ADHD with the result that it's given to too many youngsters.

Despite this, Ritalin is fast becoming a widely accepted parenting tool, a medical substitute for that most precious parental commodity; time. Canadian child psychologist and author of The Omnipotent Child Dr Thomas P. Millar says the behaviours on the ADHD checklist are no more symptoms than a rash, or a cough, or sore feet. "These behaviours are common and normal in preschool children. In older children they are more appropriately called immaturities. Getting over immaturity is called growing up." He goes on to state the obvious, that it seems many parents have forgotten in their rush to embrace the latest wonder drug. "Children grow up when they are parented properly, that is nurtured and trained in a fashion appropriate for their temperament."

But perhaps the scariest part of the Ritalin epidemic (as if there could be anything scarier than parental abdication of parenting) is the increasing pressure schools are putting parents under. All the behaviours on the checklist are guaranteed to irritate even the most patient teacher but a child on Ritalin becomes submissive, passive and socially inhibited. Perfect schoolroom material. So much so that earlier this year a New York State judge ordered parents to resume giving their seven year old son Ritalin after they'd stopped dosing him, fearing it was harming him. Their school board reported them to the Department of Social Services, which filed child abuse charges for medical neglect. To avoid having their son removed from them the couple reinstated his court ordered doping.

Not even the largest advocate group set up to protect suffers of this supposed illness is immune. Recently it was revealed that Children and Adults with ADHD received more than a million dollars in funding from the makers of Ritalin. But last week, the group, vocal promoters of Ritalin, did a dramatic about face. They agreed with the National Institute of Mental Health that many doctors are misdiagnosing kids with ADHD and turning hospitals and clinics into pill mills.

In New Zealand Ritalin prescriptions are running at an all time high. 72,186 prescriptions were written to March this year up from 49,811 in 2000. So it's clear that in this trend at least we're not lagging behind the US. Now if we can just get the street price up a bit more we might even have a nice black market earner for parents as well.

westofyou
06-26-2005, 11:22 PM
Anyone will behave at that point because their body has no other choice.

Until you experience the world of what happens sans drug you have no idea what said drug does to you do you?

Kinda of a subjective viewpoint of ADD being tossed around here IMO.

Ravenlord
06-26-2005, 11:27 PM
i have ADD. i've never taken drugs for it. i am extremely glad i've never taken drugs for it. my obsessive nature tends to override my ADD anyway in regards to baseball and fishing.

Larkin Fan
06-26-2005, 11:31 PM
Until you experience the world of what happens sans drug you have no idea what said drug does to you do you?


I don't understand your question WOY.

westofyou
06-26-2005, 11:45 PM
I don't understand your question WOY.

There is no question, I'm just saying ADD is a something that is not understood until you experience it.

And that includes what effect ritalin has on the person who has it.

I have it, have always had it and it's a rush that can not even be put into words.

Falls City Beer
06-27-2005, 12:01 AM
Two of my closest friends suffer from bipolar disorder--they're alive and productive because of prescription medications.

Tom Cruise is a set of teeth.

SandyD
06-27-2005, 12:14 AM
I work with a woman who has ADD. Friday, I tried to give her a heads up about a file she was about to receive, and a call she was about to get about that file. I had about 5 sentences to say, but she interrupted me 3 times while I was trying to get those 5 sentences out. She could not listen that long.

She's supposed to take medication, but she doesn't always. She doesn't like how it makes her feel. You can really notice a difference when she's on her medication.

TeamCasey
06-27-2005, 08:53 AM
* often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat;

* often leaves seat in a classroom or in other situations in which remaining seated is expected;

* often has difficulty playing or engaging in leisure activities quietly;

* is often “on the go” and often talks excessively.


That describes most kids. (and me. :devil: )

GAC
06-27-2005, 09:05 AM
I never said that ther aren't cases where drugs aren't beneficial. I simply believe they are being over prescribed in various case situations. Especially with a child that is deemed hyper-active. Parents are too quick to put the child on various drugs.

My oldest was diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome several years ago. It's taken a greater commitment/involvement from us as parents; but it's been well worth it. We've had more problem with the school system then we have our son.

registerthis
06-27-2005, 10:57 AM
Scientologists are insane. Nothing new there.
They do seem to be a bit left of the loony bin, for sure.

Larkin Fan
06-27-2005, 12:41 PM
I never said that there are not cases in which drugs are necessary. But my issue is with the fact that ADD/ADHD is one of the most overdiagnosed disorders today. There are many legitimate cases out there, but there's also kids on these drugs that aren't truly dealing with ADD or ADHD.

I do believe that drugs are quite often necessary to treat the disorder. However, I have serious issues with stimulant medications and their mode of action. If someone needs to be treated for ADD, they are much better off being treated with a non-stimulant medication like Strattera.

NJReds
06-27-2005, 12:53 PM
Cruise said he always had doubts about psychiatry, and then said once he studied it, he knew it was bogus. Lauer should have called him on perhaps not being the most unbiased source in the world. Descartes set out to prove the existence of god and lo and behold, he did, even though his proofs are as faulty as an I-75 construction project.

Cruise is doing a heck of a job promoting War of the Worlds.

In a related story, Cruise went on a sportstalk radio show spouting of his theory of "soft walks" "batting w/RISP as the true measure of a player" and the fact that "OPS" doesn't really exist.

traderumor
06-27-2005, 01:26 PM
Two of my closest friends suffer from bipolar disorder--they're alive and productive because of prescription medications.

Tom Cruise is a set of teeth.Bipolar is a far cry from ADD. Our culture's solution to any ailment is a pill, right down to undisciplined, misbehaving children in school. Sad. :(

Falls City Beer
06-27-2005, 03:58 PM
Bipolar is a far cry from ADD. Our culture's solution to any ailment is a pill, right down to undisciplined, misbehaving children in school. Sad. :(

I was responding to Tom Cruise's blanket assessment that any mental illness can be dealt with by the use of vitamins and exercise.

You see bipolar as a far cry from ADD, but I suspect someone with ADD might think differently. I don't know. I don't suffer from either one.

traderumor
06-27-2005, 04:11 PM
I was responding to Tom Cruise's blanket assessment that any mental illness can be dealt with by the use of vitamins and exercise.

You see bipolar as a far cry from ADD, but I suspect someone with ADD might think differently. I don't know. I don't suffer from either one.

IMO, ADD is a catch all to cover anything from a legitimate learning disability to a behavioral problem. But I'm not real confident that a person diagnosed with ADD wants to be considered mentally ill, unless of course it helps excuse them from some behavior they do not want to be held responsible for. The issue that GAC brought up about the pressure schools are exerting on families is a tragic consequence of this "diagnosis" and "treatment", and an important problem that needs to be addressed before another generation of druggies is littering the welfare rolls with an excuse that's been given to them for as long as they can remember.

But then, I'm someone who does not consider an alcoholic or a drug addict as having a "disease."

BuckU
06-27-2005, 04:23 PM
What are the beliefs of Scientolgy? Is there a website or something that highlights the objectives of this faith.

I'm curious, since it is the new Hollywood fad and those fad's crack me up.

KronoRed
06-27-2005, 04:27 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology

Beware.

Redsfaithful
06-27-2005, 04:37 PM
What are the beliefs of Scientolgy? Is there a website or something that highlights the objectives of this faith.

I'm curious, since it is the new Hollywood fad and those fad's crack me up.

It's not at all new. This isn't anything like kabbalah or whatever, it's quite a bit more sinister.

REDREAD
06-27-2005, 07:22 PM
I wonder what Kelsey Grammer has to say about this?

:laugh: Yeah, let's bring in a real expert like Fraser.

creek14
06-28-2005, 05:34 AM
Psychiatrists: Cruise comments 'irresponsible'

Cruise called psychiatry a "pseudo science" during an interview with Matt Lauer on NBC's "Today" show.WATCH Browse/Search

LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- The American Psychiatric Association on Monday sharply criticized actor Tom Cruise for televised remarks in which he called psychiatry a "pseudo science" and disputed the value of antidepressant drugs.

"It is irresponsible for Mr. Cruise to use his movie publicity tour to promote his own ideological views and deter people with mental illness from getting the care they need," APA President Dr. Steven Sharfstein said in a statement.

During interviews promoting his latest film, "War of the Worlds," Cruise has discussed his deep skepticism of psychiatry to explain his belief in the teachings of the Church of Scientology, founded by science-fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard.

In one such interview last Friday on NBC's "Today" show, Cruise was asked about his recent criticism of actress Brooke Shields for revealing that she had taken the antidepressant Paxil to cope with postpartum depression.

"Before I was a Scientologist, I never agreed with psychiatry," Cruise said. "And when I started studying the history of psychiatry, I understood more and more why I didn't believe in psychology. ... And I know that psychiatry is a pseudo science."

Disputing the effectiveness of antidepressants generally, Cruise said, "all it does is mask the problem." He added, "There is no such thing as a chemical imbalance."

Cruise also singled out drugs, such as Ritalin, that are used to treat children for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, calling Ritalin "a street drug."

As "Today" host Matt Lauer pressed the 42-year-old actor on his views, Cruise said, "Here's the problem. You don't know the history of psychiatry. I do."

The rebuke from the APA, which represents nearly 36,000 physicians specializing in the diagnosis and treatment of mental illness, challenged Cruise's assertion that psychiatry lacks scientific merit.

"Rigorous, published, peer-reviewed research clearly demonstrates that treatment (of mental illness) works," the APA statement said. "It is unfortunate that in the face of this remarkable scientific and clinical progress that a small number of individuals and groups persist in questioning its legitimacy."

Cruise remains one of Hollywood's biggest stars, but since his manic, couch-hopping appearance on "The Oprah Winfrey Show" last month, he also has leaped to the forefront of celebrity punch lines.

Larkin Fan
06-28-2005, 05:44 AM
"Before I was a Scientologist, I never agreed with psychiatry," Cruise said. "And when I started studying the history of psychiatry, I understood more and more why I didn't believe in psychology. ... And I know that psychiatry is a pseudo science."

He couldn't have studied it much considering the fact that he still doesn't realize that the terms psychiatry and psychology aren't interchangable... But then again, we already knew that he doesn't have the slightest clue what's he talking about.

GAC
06-28-2005, 09:59 AM
What are the beliefs of Scientolgy? Is there a website or something that highlights the objectives of this faith.

I'm curious, since it is the new Hollywood fad and those fad's crack me up.

Their headquarters is in Tampa, Florida. All I can say is BIG BUCKS.

Their beliefs come from one L. Ron Hubbard, who wrote Dianetics. It's basically a religion of self, which fits in good with the Hollywood crowd.

traderumor
06-28-2005, 10:12 AM
While Cruise has used a false religion to draw a conclusion, the blind squirrel has found a nut in the process because psychiatry is a dubious profession that relies on patients not getting better and who has turned to chemicals to treat emotions.

And before anyone freaks out, I am not talking about the truly mentally ill here, but every day folks like you and I that are told a therapist and a pill is the way to cope with life by the American Psychiatric Association. Depressed? Well, just take this little blue pill. No, don't worry about your liver or any other side effects, take this pill so you can cope. Get better? No, you need to see me at least once a week just to keep from getting depressed again.

GAC
06-28-2005, 10:21 AM
Whats funny is that Hubbard mingled psychiatry within his system of beliefs. ;)

savafan
07-01-2005, 11:57 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/01/opinion/01shields.html?ei=5090&en=7189d307fdb5772d&ex=1277870400&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

By BROOKE SHIELDS

London

I WAS hoping it wouldn't come to this, but after Tom Cruise's interview with Matt Lauer on the NBC show "Today" last week, I feel compelled to speak not just for myself but also for the hundreds of thousands of women who have suffered from postpartum depression. While Mr. Cruise says that Mr. Lauer and I do not "understand the history of psychiatry," I'm going to take a wild guess and say that Mr. Cruise has never suffered from postpartum depression.

Postpartum depression is caused by the hormonal shifts that occur after childbirth. During pregnancy, a woman's level of estrogen and progesterone greatly increases; then, in the first 24 hours after childbirth, the amount of these hormones rapidly drops to normal, nonpregnant levels. This change in hormone levels can lead to reactions that range from restlessness and irritability to feelings of sadness and hopelessness.

I never thought I would have postpartum depression. After two years of trying to conceive and several attempts at in vitro fertilization, I thought I would be overjoyed when my daughter, Rowan Francis, was born in the spring of 2003. But instead I felt completely overwhelmed. This baby was a stranger to me. I didn't know what to do with her. I didn't feel at all joyful. I attributed feelings of doom to simple fatigue and figured that they would eventually go away. But they didn't; in fact, they got worse.

I couldn't bear the sound of Rowan crying, and I dreaded the moments my husband would bring her to me. I wanted her to disappear. I wanted to disappear. At my lowest points, I thought of swallowing a bottle of pills or jumping out the window of my apartment.

I couldn't believe it when my doctor told me that I was suffering from postpartum depression and gave me a prescription for the antidepressant Paxil. I wasn't thrilled to be taking drugs. In fact, I prematurely stopped taking them and had a relapse that almost led me to drive my car into a wall with Rowan in the backseat. But the drugs, along with weekly therapy sessions, are what saved me - and my family.

Since writing about my experiences with the disease, I have been approached by many women who have told me their stories and thanked me for opening up about a topic that is often not discussed because of fear, shame or lack of support and information. Experts estimate that one in 10 women suffer, usually in silence, with this treatable disease. We are living in an era of so-called family values, yet because almost all of the postnatal focus is on the baby, mothers are overlooked and left behind to endure what can be very dark times.

And comments like those made by Tom Cruise are a disservice to mothers everywhere. To suggest that I was wrong to take drugs to deal with my depression, and that instead I should have taken vitamins and exercised shows an utter lack of understanding about postpartum depression and childbirth in general.

If any good can come of Mr. Cruise's ridiculous rant, let's hope that it gives much-needed attention to a serious disease. Perhaps now is the time to call on doctors, particularly obstetricians and pediatricians, to screen for postpartum depression. After all, during the first three months after childbirth, you see a pediatrician at least three times. While pediatricians are trained to take care of children, it would make sense for them to talk with new mothers, ask questions and inform them of the symptoms and treatment should they show signs of postpartum depression.

In a strange way, it was comforting to me when my obstetrician told me that my feelings of extreme despair and my suicidal thoughts were directly tied to a biochemical shift in my body. Once we admit that postpartum is a serious medical condition, then the treatment becomes more available and socially acceptable. With a doctor's care, I have since tapered off the medication, but without it, I wouldn't have become the loving parent I am today.

So, there you have it. It's not the history of psychiatry, but it is my history, personal and real.

Brooke Shields, the author of "Down Came the Rain: My Journey Through Postpartum Depression," isstarring in the musical "Chicago" in London.

creek14
08-01-2005, 07:20 PM
Lauren Bacall criticizes 'vulgar' Tom Cruise
NEW YORK (AP) — Lauren Bacall has a few unkind words to say about Tom Cruise.

Answers: shocking, vulgar, unacceptable. The question: What were the terms Lauren Bacall used to describe Tom Cruise's recent behavior?
By Ann Johansson, AP

In an interview in the Aug. 8 issue of Time magazine, now on newsstands, the 80-year-old actress says, "When you talk about a great actor, you're not talking about Tom Cruise."

"His whole behavior is so shocking," she says. "It's inappropriate and vulgar and absolutely unacceptable to use your private life to sell anything commercially, but I think it's kind of a sickness."

Bacall was alluding to Cruise's displays of emotion and public courting of Katie Holmes in the weeks leading up to the release of his new film, War of the Worlds. Cruise and Holmes became engaged in June after he proposed at the Eiffel Tower in Paris.

Last fall, Bacall made similar remarks about Cruise's ex-wife Nicole Kidman, her co-star in Birth. While promoting the movie, Bacall became irritated when an interviewer described Kidman as "a legend."

"She's not a legend," Bacall said. "She can't be a legend at whatever age she is. ... You have to be older."

wally post
08-01-2005, 09:55 PM
Man - I SO DIG Lauren Bacall for saying her opinion so honestly and simply.

alex trevino
08-01-2005, 10:00 PM
I worked in the mental health field for awhile, as well, and found many of the drugs prescribed allowed people to live semi-normal lives. In fact, that is the primary reason I left the field. I had hoped to pursue a career in counseling, but after a few years in the field, I come to realize people were getting better because of medication not counseling. A patient can have all the insight in the world and still put a gun in their mouth and pull the trigger. The ones who got better did so because they were on the right meds.

RFS62
08-01-2005, 10:14 PM
Man - I SO DIG Lauren Bacall for saying her opinion so honestly and simply.


Yep, me too.

Falls City Beer
08-01-2005, 10:15 PM
I worked in the mental health field for awhile, as well, and found many of the drugs prescribed allowed people to live semi-normal lives. In fact, that is the primary reason I left the field. I had hoped to pursue a career in counseling, but after a few years in the field, I come to realize people were getting better because of medication not counseling. A patient can have all the insight in the world and still put a gun in their mouth and pull the trigger. The ones who got better did so because they were on the right meds.

This is my impression as well. Not that I don't think therapy is important, as I believe it is.

RFS62
08-01-2005, 10:17 PM
Cruise is as nutty as a fruitcake.

Larkin Fan
08-01-2005, 10:25 PM
I worked in the mental health field for awhile, as well, and found many of the drugs prescribed allowed people to live semi-normal lives. In fact, that is the primary reason I left the field. I had hoped to pursue a career in counseling, but after a few years in the field, I come to realize people were getting better because of medication not counseling. A patient can have all the insight in the world and still put a gun in their mouth and pull the trigger. The ones who got better did so because they were on the right meds.

I disagree with your stance on counseling. Drugs only correct the chemical imbalance that is contributing to a the problem, but not what caused that chemical imbalance in the first place. Drugs aren't intended to be a sole treatment for any type of mental illness. Their direct intent is to be used in conjunction with counseling to provide an all-around psychological and pharmacological approach that will far benefit the patient more than either one will do alone.

Both have their limitations. You are aware of suicide being caused by SSRI use, right? It can happen with either method.

Larkin Fan
08-01-2005, 10:27 PM
As far as the rest of Tom's claims, medical science clearly proves that Tom is nuttier than a fruitcake on Christmas.

Great minds think alike, 62.

ochre
08-01-2005, 10:28 PM
Cruise is as nutty as a fruitcake..
http://www.suncircle.org/fruitcake.JPG

alex trevino
08-01-2005, 11:36 PM
I disagree with your stance on counseling. Drugs only correct the chemical imbalance that is contributing to a the problem, but not what caused that chemical imbalance in the first place. Drugs aren't intended to be a sole treatment for any type of mental illness. Their direct intent is to be used in conjunction with counseling to provide an all-around psychological and pharmacological approach that will far benefit the patient more than either one will do alone.

Both have their limitations. You are aware of suicide being caused by SSRI use, right? It can happen with either method.

Ofcourse even meds have limitations and I am not saying there is not a time and place for counseling. For example I think certain anxiety disorders such as panic attacks and agorphobia actually require both. But for the more severe illnesses (i.e. manic depression, schizophrenia etc.) I will take drugs over counseling anyday.

Larkin Fan
08-01-2005, 11:51 PM
Ofcourse even meds have limitations and I am not saying there is not a time and place for counseling. For example I think certain anxiety disorders such as panic attacks and agorphobia actually require both. But for the more severe illnesses (i.e. manic depression, schizophrenia etc.) I will take drugs over counseling anyday.

If there's no counseling involved for schizophrenic or bipolar patients, how do you deal with non-compliance as far as meds go, which patients in both groups are highly notorious for not sticking with their medications. Drugs also can't monitor when a patient becomes a danger to themselves. Things like that are just examples why counseling and pharmacological therapy must be used in conjunction with one another.

Like I said before, the drugs are not intended to be used alone. They only reach their true effectiveness when their combined with therapy, because that's the patient's best chance of getting the proper treatment.

alex trevino
08-02-2005, 12:25 AM
If there's no counseling involved for schizophrenic or bipolar patients, how do you deal with non-compliance as far as meds go, which patients in both groups are highly notorious for not sticking with their medications. Drugs also can't monitor when a patient becomes a danger to themselves. Things like that are just examples why counseling and pharmacological therapy must be used in conjunction with one another.

Like I said before, the drugs are not intended to be used alone. They only reach their true effectiveness when their combined with therapy, because that's the patient's best chance of getting the proper treatment.

Larkin Fan I was just expressing my opinion based upon several (actually 5) years of observations working in the mental health sytem. You are right EFFECTIVE counseling in conjunction with medication is probably the best approach. But when when someone walks into a pysch ward and is so depressed they can't lift their heads and a few weeks later they are walking out of the hospital it is usually because the meds kicked in. Again I am not discounting the value of counseling, I just think without the current meds mental health would still be in the dark ages.

You would have a hard time providing counseling to a shizophrenic if it was not for meds.

Larkin Fan
08-02-2005, 12:36 AM
You would have a hard time providing counseling to a shizophrenic if it was not for meds.

I'm actually quite aware of that. I never argued once argued against the benefits of the drugs and personally believe them to be quite beneficial. The birth of the SSRI was something the changed mental health greatly for the better. But as someone pursuing a career as a physician, it concerns me that some (including doctors) put too much stock into these drugs to do the entire job, which is something that even the drug manufacturers will tell you that they were never intended for. They simply cure the physiological cause of these illnesses, but not the psychological one. That's all I'm trying to stress here.

cincinnati chili
08-02-2005, 12:45 AM
Cruise is as nutty as a fruitcake.

And if the allegations in this thread are true, he's also as fruity as a nutcake.

savafan
08-02-2005, 12:57 AM
Man - I SO DIG Lauren Bacall for saying her opinion so honestly and simply.

I dig Lauren Bacall because she taught Bogey how to whistle.