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redsfan30
06-26-2005, 01:20 PM
F. Lopez ss 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .299
R. Aurilia 2b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .264
S. Casey 1b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .321
K. Griffey Jr. dh 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .278
J. Randa 3b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .296
A. Dunn lf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .246
W. Pena rf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .273
J. LaRue c 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .256
J. Romano cf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .333
Totals 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

Cleveland
AB R H RBI BB K LOB Season Avg
G. Sizemore cf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .307
C. Crisp lf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .289
T. Hafner dh 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .286
B. Broussard 1b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .253
R. Belliard 2b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .293
J. Gerut rf 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .295
C. Blake 3b 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .219
A. Cora ss 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .221
J. Bard c 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .176

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2005, 01:23 PM
I'm so glad they called Encarnacion up to sit on the bench! Nevermind the fact that he could be getting atbats everyday at Louisville. Let's call up Homer Bailey next and let him be the batboy!

traderumor
06-26-2005, 01:24 PM
EE has played in both games since he's been up, OBM.

Cyclone792
06-26-2005, 01:25 PM
I'm so glad they called Encarnacion up to sit on the bench! Nevermind the fact that he could be getting atbats everyday at Louisville. Let's call up Homer Bailey next and let him be the batboy!

Romano starting and Encarnacion on the bench ...

My oh my ... :angry:

CTA513
06-26-2005, 01:28 PM
I'm so glad they called Encarnacion up to sit on the bench! Nevermind the fact that he could be getting atbats everyday at Louisville. Let's call up Homer Bailey next and let him be the batboy!

What about Bergolla? he should play everyday to since hes up here... shouldnt he? Both Bergolla & Encarnacion are swinging some hot bats...

Encarnacion is going to get more than enough playing time once Randas gone. Untill then he can watch and learn from Randa.

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2005, 01:29 PM
EE has played in both games since he's been up, OBM.

I forgot that he did get in the game last night, but it was only 2 atbats. In my opinion, he should be getting 3-4 atbats a night. If not, send him down.

Jason Romano should not start over Encarnacion.

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2005, 01:30 PM
What about Bergolla? he should play everyday to since hes up here... shouldnt he? Both Bergolla & Encarnacion are swinging some hot bats...

Encarnacion is going to get more than enough playing time once Randas gone. Untill then he can watch and learn from Randa.

Bergolla should be in Triple-A. He is nowhere near close to being read for the major leagues.

By the way, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they hang on to Randa. I've been reading that O'Brien is scared to make any moves...plus he wants his buddy Narron to lead this team to the .500 mark before the season ends.

Matt700wlw
06-26-2005, 01:37 PM
...plus he wants his buddy Narron to lead this team to the .500 mark before the season ends.

I seriously doubt that will happen

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 01:39 PM
Bergolla should be in Triple-A. He is nowhere near close to being read for the major leagues.

By the way, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they hang on to Randa. I've been reading that O'Brien is scared to make any moves...plus he wants his buddy Narron to lead this team to the .500 mark before the season ends.

If this team is within 20 games sniffing distance of .500, I'd call Narron a rousing success.

Cyclone792
06-26-2005, 01:39 PM
I seriously doubt that will happen

I'm not gonna say that I doubt it'll happen; I'll just say it won't happen. Unfortunately the problem is Dan O'Brien thinks it can happen.

Somebody :help: us ...

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 01:45 PM
*sigh*
Dan O must be making the lineups out.

DoogMinAmo
06-26-2005, 01:46 PM
I don't buy this BS of other GMs calling DanO a coward for not trading away great players. They are probably trying to low ball him, or get a steal, and DanO is not going for it. This has the maturity of a "what are you, chicken?" tactic. I sincerely doubt he is scared to deal, period. However, he wouldn't be the only one, especially around here, who may think the young stars will blossom into great players, so why get rid of them?

Now if he is not trading Aurilia and Randa, in face of good offers, then I would be worried. But right now we are hearing anonymously from the losers of the "Rob the Reds" sweepstakes, and I am not giving it the time of day.

pedro
06-26-2005, 01:49 PM
I don't really have a problem with EE sitting and Griffey getting to play DH today. It's what they do with him over the entire second half of the season that is important. Not a single game.

Ravenlord
06-26-2005, 02:05 PM
i would like to see Randa leave the game in the 6th or so in favor of EdE if the Reds have a lead...or being blown of the water.

PuffyPig
06-26-2005, 02:06 PM
I forgot that he did get in the game last night, but it was only 2 atbats. In my opinion, he should be getting 3-4 atbats a night. If not, send him down.



2 games, 6 AB's means you got your wish.

TeamBoone
06-26-2005, 02:09 PM
Did anyone hear Chris Welsh short blurb last night regarding Casey's spot in the order? I don't remember exactly what he said but something like "As long as Casey remains third in the order, especially with Griffey behind him, he's bound to see good pitches".

Made me wonder why the manager(s) haven't applied that theory to perhaps starting others in that slot, at least a few times, to see how it works out. Or, perhaps they don't think Casey will perform well if they drop him down and they're not willing to take that chance?

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 02:12 PM
Maybe they think that Casey will repeat his year from last year and they don't want to mess with his spot in the order as they wait for it to happen.

Of course, it probably won't happen.

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2005, 02:12 PM
2 games, 6 AB's means you got your wish.

Could have been 8 AB's.

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2005, 02:15 PM
Lopez singles
Aurilia walks
Casey k's on a bad 3-2 pitch away(according to Gameday)

PuffyPig
06-26-2005, 02:20 PM
Could have been 8 AB's.

I'd rather 0-6, than 0-8.

Anyway, you said 3-4. 3 is one of 3-4.

DoogMinAmo
06-26-2005, 02:20 PM
Full counts across the board, 32 pitches for CC in the first. Keep it up guys, get him tired.

Marc D
06-26-2005, 02:21 PM
Casey and JR K, Randa Pops out to 1st end top 1

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2005, 02:21 PM
Might have been 2-8, with 2 homeruns.

Griffey struckout on a 3-2 pitch. Randa pops out, again on a 3-2 pitch. Dunn will lead off the 2nd inning(surprise!).

DoogMinAmo
06-26-2005, 02:24 PM
The way Harang paints the corners of the strikeszone can be a thing of beauty. He seems wild low today though.

DoogMinAmo
06-26-2005, 02:26 PM
Quick bottom of the first, 11 pitches. Keep this up, CC and his renowned poor conditioning will tire quickly.

PuffyPig
06-26-2005, 02:27 PM
Might have been 2-8, with 2 homeruns.



And the guy that EE replaced might have been 6-6 with 6 HR's.

But the fact is, EE has gone 0-6 in 2 games.I don't think our problem over the last couple games is lack of EE AB's.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 02:28 PM
Dunn leads off the 2nd ;)

RosieRed
06-26-2005, 02:31 PM
LaRue! HR!! :party: 2-0 Reds.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 02:31 PM
LaRue hits a 2 run homer :clap:

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2005, 02:34 PM
After that homerun, LaRue is hitting .261/.351/.424

Romano draws a walk.

PuffyPig
06-26-2005, 02:34 PM
Romano with the 9 pitch walk.

DoogMinAmo
06-26-2005, 02:36 PM
Lopez grounds into a Casey. 55 pitches for CC through 2, 2-0 Reds

Marc D
06-26-2005, 02:47 PM
Add LaRue to Randa, Aurilia, Casey and JR as players who are doing nothing but help their trade value lately.


Clocks ticking O'Brien.... :angry:

CTA513
06-26-2005, 02:49 PM
Gerut had a good at bat, but Harang wouldnt let Gerut beat him.

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2005, 02:56 PM
Josh Hancock had another set back. I wonder if O'Brien will start dealing players now that Hancock is hurt again? Afterall, he said Machado and Hancock were two key players for the stretch drive. ;)


Hancock hurting again: Right-hander Josh Hancock has suffered another setback on his road to recovery from a right groin injury.

Hancock, who has gone 0-1 with a 10.34 ERA in four rehab appearances with Louisville, has been shut down from throwing again.

"He's real frustrated," general manager Dan O'Brien said. "It's been tough for him."

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050626&content_id=1104571&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

Marc D
06-26-2005, 02:56 PM
68 pitches in 3 IP for CC.

2-0 Reds mid 3rd.

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2005, 03:00 PM
John Smoltz has a perfect game through 4.

DoogMinAmo
06-26-2005, 03:02 PM
Is the cleveland lineup all pull hitters? Harang is living outside right now.

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 03:06 PM
Is the cleveland lineup all pull hitters? Harang is living outside right now.

He seems to be either not getting the inside ball called a strike or he's missing inside a lot. That could be why.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 03:07 PM
Coco walks, bases loaded :help:

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 03:08 PM
Aaron's having a tough, tough time putting hitters away lately. I hope he's not pitching through an injury.

DoogMinAmo
06-26-2005, 03:08 PM
He is not getting the outside strike now either, the ump is squeezing him like crazy. Bases loaded, 1 out.

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2005, 03:09 PM
Palmeiro homers to break up the perfect game.

Indians have the bases loaded. 1 out.

Aronchis
06-26-2005, 03:09 PM
Doubtfull. Just is the more truthfull Harang rather than the May hotstreak Harang.

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 03:10 PM
Doubtfull. Just is the more truthfull Harang rather than the May hotstreak Harang.

Or he could be getting squeezed. I'm not watching the game, so I don't know what kind of calls he is and isn't getting.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 03:11 PM
Umpire has some cool shades.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 03:12 PM
Hafner doubles down the line..tie game.

CTA513
06-26-2005, 03:12 PM
Nice job Harang... maybe you better try and hit that outside corner a few more times.

:/

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 03:13 PM
Ladies and gentleman, Harang out of the stretch. It ain't pretty.

Aronchis
06-26-2005, 03:14 PM
Harang is a 3/4 starter. Probably got a bit of deadarm in June as well, you are going to even out over a season.

Still wanna sign him to a LTC ;)

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 03:14 PM
Bender walked intentionally after going 3-0..bases loaded again

CTA513
06-26-2005, 03:14 PM
Harang must be taking lessons from Hudson.... they better get the bullpen up now before Harang lets the Indians blow this game open.

DoogMinAmo
06-26-2005, 03:14 PM
Cmon Casey!

DoogMinAmo
06-26-2005, 03:16 PM
Harang must be taking lessons from Hudson.... they better get the bullpen up now before Harang lets the Indians blow this game open.

A little extreme. He has been no where near as wild as Hudson. According to Gamecast, he is pitching on the edge of the zone, borderline calls he was getting. No he isn't and is having to serve up meatballs.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 03:18 PM
Inning over..2-2 game

Dunn leads off the 4th.

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2005, 03:18 PM
Harang has thrown 82 pitches through 3. Sabathia 68.

DoogMinAmo
06-26-2005, 03:19 PM
Way to work out of the jam Harang. That is the major difference between him and the rest of the staff. We are all to used to the "when it rains it pours," at least Aaron brings an umbrella.

CTA513
06-26-2005, 03:19 PM
A little extreme. He has been no where near as wild as Hudson. According to Gamecast, he is pitching on the edge of the zone, borderline calls he was getting. No he isn't and is having to serve up meatballs.

3 walks in 3 innings and is getting behind a lot of hitters.

PuffyPig
06-26-2005, 03:20 PM
Harang got squeeezed badly that inning. He had the 2nd batter struck out on 2 pitches, yet ending up walking him. He was never really wild. And Larue dropped a fould tip that was very catchable which proceeded the walk which loaded the bases.

CTA513
06-26-2005, 03:20 PM
Harang is at 83 pitches... 1 maybe 2 more innings left for him.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 03:20 PM
FSN lied to me ;) Randa leads off

DoogMinAmo
06-26-2005, 03:21 PM
Inning over..2-2 game

Dunn leads off the 4th.

Don't forget Joe. :mooner:

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 03:23 PM
Dunn doubles to left.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 03:23 PM
Don't forget Joe. :mooner:
That's what I get for trusting FSN to put up the right 3 people due up ;)

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2005, 03:24 PM
Dunn doubles to left.

Gameday shows that as almost being a homerun. Is that the case?

WVRedsFan
06-26-2005, 03:25 PM
Harang got squeeezed badly that inning. He had the 2nd batter struck out on 2 pitches, yet ending up walking him. He was never really wild. And Larue dropped a fould tip that was very catchable which proceeded the walk which loaded the bases.

Exactly. This whole game he has not been given the strikes like other games. Some umpires do this. I don't think the ump is even consistent in his calls either. And Larue's drop was a killer.

Aaron's OK, he just has a difficult umpire to work with today.

flyer85
06-26-2005, 03:25 PM
Don't forget Joe. :mooner:"you remember Joe"

WVRedsFan
06-26-2005, 03:25 PM
Gameday shows that as almost being a homerun. Is that the case?

Off the wall. Close

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 03:25 PM
Gameday shows that as almost being a homerun. Is that the case?
Yeah about 3 feet from the top of the wall.

DoogMinAmo
06-26-2005, 03:25 PM
Sabathia setting Wily up for the low, inside heat with outside junk.

flyer85
06-26-2005, 03:27 PM
Dunn is actually htting better off of lefties at the moment because he has struggled to hit the inside pitch of late and lefties have a harder time getting in there

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2005, 03:27 PM
Thanks guys.

Two homeruns off Mulder and a double off Sabathia. Good to see him hitting the lefties again.

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 03:27 PM
Wily Mo has been flat-out atrocious since returning from the DL.

DoogMinAmo
06-26-2005, 03:28 PM
CC 88 pitches through 4, Dunn stranded on 2nd after a 1 out double. still 2-2

DoogMinAmo
06-26-2005, 03:29 PM
Wily Mo has been flat-out atrocious since returning from the DL.

He is pressing. So young, so strong, so much potential.

Aronchis
06-26-2005, 03:29 PM
Wily Mo has been flat-out atrocious since returning from the DL.

250 3 homer 10 RBI's. I wouldn't call it atrocious, but Kearnsesque, but you know what happens when he starts to get hot.....................................

flyer85
06-26-2005, 03:29 PM
Gameday shows that as almost being a homerun. Is that the case?it would have been a HR at GABP

WVRedsFan
06-26-2005, 03:31 PM
Wily Mo has been flat-out atrocious since returning from the DL.

He's very streaky. When he warms up, watch out.

Of course, batting him so low in the order doesn't help much. He's really getting nothing to hit.

RedFanAlways1966
06-26-2005, 03:31 PM
Entering today's game...
* The REDS are 5-9 when Aaron Harang starts this year.
* The REDS are 0-4 when Harang has started in June. Harang got the loss all 4 games.
> The REDS have scored a total of 10 runs in those 4 June starts.
>> 5R, 3R, 1R, 1R.
* Harang has given up only 2 HRs during June (23.2 IP).
* The bullpen has allowed only 2ER when Harang started in June (10.1IP, 1.74 ERA).

* Harang in June: 4GS, 23.2IP, 19ER, 29H, 10BB, 29K.
> 7.22 ERA, 1.65 WHIP.
* Harang in May: 5GS, 37.1IP, 8ER, 27H, 8BB, 33K, 1HRA.
> 1.93 ERA, 0.94 WHIP.

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 03:32 PM
250 3 homer 10 RBI's. I wouldn't call it atrocious, but Kearnsesque, but you know what happens when he starts to get hot.....................................

Yeah, and two of those homers occurred in the same game.

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2005, 03:33 PM
Andruw Jones just hit his 24th homerun. En fuego.

DoogMinAmo
06-26-2005, 03:33 PM
7 pitch inning helps Harangs out. Now if ever is the chance to do damage to CC.

WVRedsFan
06-26-2005, 03:34 PM
Harang gets through the 4th unscathed. 2-2 tie.

Romano, Lopez, and Aurilia up in the 5th.

I hate this batting order. Just sayin' :)

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 03:34 PM
Andruw Jones just hit his 24th homerun. En fuego.
He's on the juice obviously :evil:

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 03:35 PM
Andruw Jones just hit his 24th homerun. En fuego.

I don't know who it was, but a bunch of people on here used to say Andruw Jones was the most overrated centerfielder in the game, or somehting like that. I thought they were crazy then, and I do now. The guy's game is unbelieveable in my opinion. WMP dreams of having Jones's talent.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 03:36 PM
Chris and George talking about how Romano is a hard worker

DoogMinAmo
06-26-2005, 03:36 PM
CC now getting those borderline pitches, homefield advantage I guess.

Romano putting together some nice ABs, I really don't mind this guy. (Sorry, it slipped.)

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2005, 03:37 PM
He's on the juice obviously :evil:

Orange or apple? :)

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 03:37 PM
Chris and George talking about how Romano is a hard worker

You KNOW hard work and "attitude" is all that counts, right? ;)

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 03:37 PM
Orange or apple? :)
Apple is the good stuff :cool:

DoogMinAmo
06-26-2005, 03:38 PM
I think Acevedo could help out this pitching staff. Where is the kid now?

CTA513
06-26-2005, 03:39 PM
CC now getting those borderline pitches, homefield advantage I guess.


Hes getting some Ankle strikes.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 03:40 PM
I think Acevedo could help out this pitching staff. Where is the kid now?
The DL.

WVRedsFan
06-26-2005, 03:42 PM
CC now getting those borderline pitches, homefield advantage I guess.

Romano putting together some nice ABs, I really don't mind this guy. (Sorry, it slipped.)

And then he strikes out on a horrible or nasty pitch, depending on your opinion.

I don't like the fact that he takes AB's from more talented people. Like an old man once told me, a hard worker with no talent still gives you the same 0-4 that the guy you cirticize for being lazy does.

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 03:42 PM
I sure hope the BP's up. Gonna need it.

flyer85
06-26-2005, 03:43 PM
Harang is cooked

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2005, 03:44 PM
Grady Sizemore can flat hit. The Indians ripped off the Expos--Sizemore and Lee for a half year of Colon is robbery. But then again, the Indians ripping off another team in a trade is not out of the ordinary. Hafner for Einar Diaz was a pretty good trade eh?

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 03:45 PM
Harang is cooked

And he's getting cooked earlier and earlier in games it seems. That seems to be the trend of late, anyway.

RosieRed
06-26-2005, 03:47 PM
OK Marty, we get it. It should have been a DP. This is the worst team ever. Next subject please.

WVRedsFan
06-26-2005, 03:48 PM
It looked to me like it was more Lopez' fault than Harang's. Lopez was awfully late breaking for the bag.

Harang gets a gold star from me for how he pitched to the last two batters. He's a keeper. We just need runs.

flyer85
06-26-2005, 03:49 PM
OK Marty, we get it. It should have been a DP. This is the worst team ever. Next subject please.I only listen if I have to, Marty has morphed into the Grinch

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 03:49 PM
OK Marty, we get it. It should have been a DP. This is the worst team ever. Next subject please.
I blame whomever Martys fav player is ;)

flyer85
06-26-2005, 03:50 PM
It looked to me like it was more Lopez' fault than Harang's. It was Harang, he double clutched it. probably didn't get a good grip

MWM
06-26-2005, 03:50 PM
I don't know who it was, but a bunch of people on here used to say Andruw Jones was the most overrated centerfielder in the game, or somehting like that. I thought they were crazy then, and I do now. The guy's game is unbelieveable in my opinion. WMP dreams of having Jones's talent.

I've always thought he was over-rated and still do. He's riding an unbelievable hot streak right now and is still only up to .940.

He's always been a good player, but I don't think he's ever lived up to the hype. Maybe this is the year he puts it all together. He's been a very good defensive center fielder his whole career, but it's been written that he's actually lost a step the last couple of years. I don't watch him enough on defense to know if that's true or not. BUt he's never turned into the offensive juggernaut many predicted he would become. Yet, because of the hype he's always been talked up above and beyond his actualy performance, IMO.

Over-rated players most of the time are still good players. I think Jones falls into that category. I believe Derek Jeter leads that category and he's still a very good player.

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 03:51 PM
It was Harang, he double clutched it.

Ah yes errors of confidence: the hallmark of bad teams.

WVRedsFan
06-26-2005, 03:51 PM
It was Harang, he double clutched it.

Sure, but the reason he double clutched it was Lopez had not yet broken for the bag. Harang, and rightly so, didn't want to throw the ball into center field.

flyer85
06-26-2005, 03:54 PM
Sure, but the reason he double clutched it was Lopez had not yet broken for the bag. Harang, and rightly so, didn't want to throw the ball into center field.you lead the fielder, it's as simple as that. Lopez was standing on the bag waiting for the ball when Harang threw it.

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 03:55 PM
I've always thought he was over-rated and still do. He's riding an unbelievable hot streak right now and is still only up to .940.

He's always been a good player, but I don't think he's ever lived up to the hype. Maybe this is the year he puts it all together. He's been a very good defensive center fielder his whole career, but it's been written that he's actually lost a step the last couple of years. I don't watch him enough on defense to know if that's true or not. BUt he's never turned into the offensive juggernaut many predicted he would become. Yet, because of the hype he's always been talked up above and beyond his actualy performance, IMO.

Over-rated players most of the time are still good players. I think Jones falls into that category. I believe Derek Jeter leads that category and he's still a very good player.

See, I always heard that Jones was strictly an elite gloveman; I never heard much hype about his offense. But the kids got it all, particularly when you consider that he's not a corner outfielder.

MWM
06-26-2005, 03:56 PM
Sure, but the reason he double clutched it was Lopez had not yet broken for the bag. Harang, and rightly so, didn't want to throw the ball into center field.

Pitchers are taught to throw the ball to the bag, or a little on the inside of the bag. The SS or 2B will get there. I didn't see the play so I don't know just how far FeLo was, but in most cases, they'll get there by the time the ball gets there.

PuffyPig
06-26-2005, 03:56 PM
you lead the fielder, it's as simple as that. Lopez was standing on the bag waiting for the ball when Harang threw it.

That's the way I saw it. If Harang had thrown right away, Lopez would have been there, and with the momentum to make a strong throw. As it was, Lopez caught the ball flat footed, and had to throw with his arm only.

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 04:00 PM
Harang's thrown 110 pitches. Why would you send him out there again?

Never mind: it's the bottom of the order, duh.

flyer85
06-26-2005, 04:00 PM
Harang's thrown 110 pitches. Why would you send him out there again?NOOOOOOOOOOOO

MWM
06-26-2005, 04:01 PM
See, I always heard that Jones was strictly an elite gloveman; I never heard much hype about his offense. But the kids got it all, particularly when you consider that he's not a corner outfielder.

See, I don't think he's got it all. He's never had patience at the plate (.343 career OBP) and isn't as fast as he's made out to be. He's a guy that looks like he's put on a pound or two as well.

Don't get me wrong, he's a good player, but he's paid like one of the best overall players in the game (makes $13MM this year). Yes, he covers a lot of ground, but I'd still take Mike Cameron and Tori Hunter's ground covering ability over Andruw's.

I've just never been his biggest fan.

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 04:02 PM
See, I don't think he's got it all. He's never had patience at the plate (.343 career OBP) and isn't as fast as he's made out to be. He's a guy that looks like he's put on a pound or two as well.

Don't get me wrong, he's a good player, but he's paid like one of the best overall players in the game (makes $13MM this year). Yes, he covers a lot of ground, but I'd still take Mike Cameron and Tori Hunter's ground covering ability over Andruw's.

I've just never been his biggest fan.

Yeah, his contract's pretty silly, no argument there. But I think he's pretty great all around player.

WVRedsFan
06-26-2005, 04:02 PM
you lead the fielder, it's as simple as that. Lopez was standing on the bag waiting for the ball when Harang threw it.

Well, when slowing it down on Tivo and watching, when Harang turned around with the ball in his hand, Lopez hadn't yet moved toward the bag. Yes, he hurried there, but why he didn't react sooner--the ball was to the right side, so he wasn't going to have to field it--I don't know.

PuffyPig
06-26-2005, 04:03 PM
Harang's thrown 110 pitches. Why would you send him out there again?

Because he has been getting stretched out to 120 pitches. Because our bullpen sucks. Because he's our best pitcher. Because no matter who goes out there, they usually get hit. Because Narron wants to wait so he can pinch hit for him (he's been waiting since Friday).

WVRedsFan
06-26-2005, 04:04 PM
Because he has been getting stretched out to 120 pitches. Because our bullpen sucks. Because he's our best pitcher. Because no matter who goes out there, they usually get hit. Because Narron wants to wait so he can pinch hit for him (he's been waiting since Friday).

Doesn't he know he's in the American League now :)

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 04:04 PM
Because he has been getting stretched out to 120 pitches. Because our bullpen sucks. Because he's our best pitcher. Because no matter who goes out there, they usually get hit. Because Narron wants to wait so he can pinch hit for him (he's been waiting since Friday).

Or, as my amended post states (the best reason of all): it's the bottom of Cleveland's order.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 04:07 PM
LaRue doubles.

He is red hot right now

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 04:07 PM
Larue is underrated. ;)

SteelSD
06-26-2005, 04:08 PM
Larue doubles.

Does he suck still?

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2005, 04:09 PM
I just noticed that Dunn has hit the ball to the left side in all three atbats today: groundout to SS, double off wall in left, groundout to third. You don't see that too often.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 04:10 PM
I tried to steal my wifes leftover sandwich, she woke up from a nap and caught me

I blame Bob Boone

Romano singles.

SteelSD
06-26-2005, 04:11 PM
Romano singles. 1st and 3rd for the Reds. Pitching change.

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 04:11 PM
Time for FeLo to break out the crime stick.

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 04:12 PM
I tried to steal my wifes leftover sandwich, she woke up from a nap and caught me

I blame Bob Boone

Romano singles, LaRue stays at 2nd

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :lol:

That's awesome.

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 04:15 PM
What's the holdup with Arthur Chodes?

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 04:17 PM
Felo pops out..big bad RA up

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 04:21 PM
Shackleford in.

LvJ
06-26-2005, 04:21 PM
He's got the Dunn hair. :runaway:

TeamBoone
06-26-2005, 04:21 PM
Ok, I hate this move. IMHO, you do NOT do this in a 1-run game.

That said, I hope he makes me eat my words.

TeamBoone
06-26-2005, 04:22 PM
And why the Harry Caray thing in Cleveland?

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 04:22 PM
Shackleberry

FlyingPig
06-26-2005, 04:22 PM
That's what I love about this lineup..if Lopez doesn't get it done in a 3-2 game with 2 on, we have Rich Aurilia following him..


.....wait...

Did Aurilia just strike out looking?


:bang:

LvJ
06-26-2005, 04:22 PM
:owned: 3 PITCH K.

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 04:26 PM
Shackelberry Krunch

http://www.goodrock.com/productpics/shirts/thumbs/b1579.gif

TeamBoone
06-26-2005, 04:27 PM
Ok, I was enjoying dishing up the crow... and now, I don't think he should have taken him out because of the foul-up in the outfield.

There's just no pleasing me. :D

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 04:27 PM
...followed by Tackleberry.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 04:28 PM
Shack out Weathers in

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2005, 04:28 PM
Tackleberry replaces Shackelberry.

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 04:34 PM
Shack out Weathers in

Shack-fu

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2005, 04:34 PM
John Smoltz just threw his second consecutive complete game. Last 5 starts: 8+ innings in each start, 3 complete games.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 04:35 PM
Casey singles, JR walks

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 04:36 PM
Randa hits into a Casey..Casey to 3rd

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 04:38 PM
Well, that was the game right there. Alright, well, I forgot Dunn's hitting BEHIND Randa. Dunn rules too.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 04:38 PM
Dunn singles Tie Game WOO :clap:

SteelSD
06-26-2005, 04:39 PM
Dunn uses confusion as a weapon by shattering bat. Bat and ball fly at Belliard, who has to play one.

Played the wrong one and the game's tied up.

MWM
06-26-2005, 04:40 PM
It's a good thing we have all these contact hitters in key spots in the order.

Adam Dunn with a clutch single with RISP.

CTA513
06-26-2005, 04:40 PM
He's got the Dunn hair. :runaway:

lol I was thinking the same thing when he took his hat off.

:laugh:

PuffyPig
06-26-2005, 04:41 PM
Well, that was the game right there.

Another good call!

And in other news, Smoltz pitches his second consecutive complete game.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

CTA513
06-26-2005, 04:41 PM
Shackelford with a cool 0.00 ERA

He should retire now and be perfect.

flyer85
06-26-2005, 04:43 PM
if Belliard was playing normal depth that would have been an easy play

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 04:43 PM
Another good call!

And in other news, Smoltz pitches his second consecutive complete game.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Yep, keep sending a 38 year old out there start after start to throw complete games; pretty soon they'll have no one in the rotation when his arm flies off.

flyer85
06-26-2005, 04:43 PM
It's a good thing we have all these contact hitters in key spots in the order.

Adam Dunn with a clutch single with RISP.error on Belliard

Hoosier Red
06-26-2005, 04:44 PM
changed from hit to an error for Dunn, NO RBI FOR YOU

CTA513
06-26-2005, 04:45 PM
Pena had a chance to hit a bunch of fastballs today and did nothing.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 04:46 PM
Error huh? I disagree.

Just the man keeping Dunn's avg with RISP down.

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 04:46 PM
Pena had a chance to hit a bunch of fastballs today and did nothing.

He's really scuffling--when all you can hit is fastballs and you're not connecting, it's pine time (and extra BP).

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2005, 04:46 PM
Dunn haters rejoice everywhere as that was changed from a hit to an error, thus no rbi for Dunn. ;)

red-in-la
06-26-2005, 04:48 PM
Pena had a chance to hit a bunch of fastballs today and did nothing.

I saw on Pena AB and the line drive he hit was right on the screws....it was just right at the LF.....can't blame a hitter for that.

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 04:49 PM
Another good call!

And in other news, Smoltz pitches his second consecutive complete game.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Looks like I'm going to be right. :p:

Double play ball is going to be the probable cause of the loss.

SirFelixCat
06-26-2005, 04:49 PM
I swear I would have yanked Dunn out of the game right then and there and ripped into his ass. No excuse for not hustling on that play. Disgusting!

TeamBoone
06-26-2005, 04:52 PM
I swear I would have yanked Dunn out of the game right then and there and ripped into his ass. No excuse for not hustling on that play. Disgusting!

I don't agree. When you see another player charging the ball, I'd avoid the collision.

Big Klu
06-26-2005, 04:54 PM
You gotta be kidding. The only reason Lopez would have been continuing to run after that is if Dunn did not call for it. It was clearly Dunn's play to make, and he didn't do it.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 04:57 PM
Indians retake the lead 4-3

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 04:57 PM
Thanks Randa. Remember to swing on the first pitch the next time in our 2nd last AB.

SirFelixCat
06-26-2005, 04:58 PM
I don't agree. When you see another player charging the ball, I'd avoid the collision.

No freaking way. It's the outfielders call. I swear I would have done the same thing that Bobby Cox did 5 years ago with Andruw Jones. Pulled him in the middle of an inning for not hustling.


This last run is 100% on Dunn's shoulders and I am disgusted with his lack of hustle. Plain and simple. :thumbdown :angry:

CTA513
06-26-2005, 04:58 PM
Thanks Randa. Remember to swing on the first pitch the next time in our last AB.

yup its sure is Randas fault that Dunn or Lopez didnt catch that fly ball.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 04:59 PM
Well if not for Dunn we don't have our 3rd run so it's even ;)

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2005, 05:00 PM
Well if not for Dunn we don't have our 3rd run so it's even ;)

Exactly. I was about to say the same thing.

MWM
06-26-2005, 05:00 PM
There's a difference between lack of hustle and lack of judgement. Adam has shown poor judgement from time to time in the outfield, but lack of hustle implies he wasn't even trying. I didn't see it, but I doubt that's the case. My guess is it was lack of judgement.

Big Klu
06-26-2005, 05:01 PM
Well if not for Dunn we don't have our 3rd run so it's even ;)

No, actually if it wasn't for Belliard the Reds don't get the third run.

SteelSD
06-26-2005, 05:02 PM
There's a difference between lack of hustle and lack of judgement. Adam has shown poor judgement from time to time in the outfield, but lack of hustle implies he wasn't even trying. I didn't see it, but I doubt that's the case. My guess is it was lack of judgement.

Bingo. Dunn's mistake was that he misjudged the play and thought Lopez had it.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 05:03 PM
Well I still disagree on the error call.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 05:05 PM
Some angry people in the dugout :help:

Big Klu
06-26-2005, 05:05 PM
There's a difference between lack of hustle and lack of judgement. Adam has shown poor judgement from time to time in the outfield, but lack of hustle implies he wasn't even trying. I didn't see it, but I doubt that's the case. My guess is it was lack of judgement.

I tend to agree with you, but this seems to be anything but an isolated case. Dunn continues to show questionable judgment in LF, and seems to be content with being a below-average defensive outfielder when he possesses the skills to be an above-average first baseman--yet he has actively shown a resistance to moving to a position at which he would be superior.

SirFelixCat
06-26-2005, 05:05 PM
So because Belliard mishandles a one hopper, that makes everything Dunn does, right or wrong, ok? wow. Blinders people. Independant of e/o.

And MWM, while he may have misjudged and "assumed" that Lopez would get to it, had he hustled, just in case, this would be a moot point.

You people sure are forgiving, because it's Adam Dunn, or so it seems.

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2005, 05:06 PM
I can't wait to see how many threads are started in the next few hours stating, "Dunn sux! he didn't hustle and it cost us the game!'

CTA513
06-26-2005, 05:06 PM
Game Over.

SteelSD
06-26-2005, 05:07 PM
Blake makes a great play on a Larue smash and throws him out.

Interestingly enough, it also demonstrates that guarding the line late in the game is an overrated concept (Blake wasnt'). Had Blake been guarding the line, that ball would have shot right past him.

MWM
06-26-2005, 05:07 PM
yet he has actively shown a resistance to moving

How do you know this?

Matt700wlw
06-26-2005, 05:07 PM
The Reds abysmal outfield play could very well have cost the game today.

Period. I don't care who is out there.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 05:09 PM
Game Over.
Lopez disagrees.

Reds Fanatic
06-26-2005, 05:09 PM
Lopez gets a 2 out hit.

SteelSD
06-26-2005, 05:09 PM
So because Belliard mishandles a one hopper, that makes everything Dunn does, right or wrong, ok? wow. Blinders people. Independant of e/o.

And MWM, while he may have misjudged and "assumed" that Lopez would get to it, had he hustled, just in case, this would be a moot point.

You people sure are forgiving, because it's Adam Dunn, or so it seems.

Dude, what are you talking about?

Adam Dunn made a bad mistake last Inning. No one's trying to "cover" for Dunn there. Because he thought Lopez had the play made, he couldn't "hustle" because he thought that his "hustle" would have run him right into the Shortstop. Dunn's brain said "give way".

Big Klu
06-26-2005, 05:10 PM
How do you know this?

Come on. It has been discussed here and elsewhere the Dunn has stated that he does not like to nor want to play first base. It is pretty much common knowledge.

Reds Fanatic
06-26-2005, 05:10 PM
Aurilia flies out. Reds lose 4-3.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 05:10 PM
..but Rich agrees.

Game Over.

SirFelixCat
06-26-2005, 05:10 PM
The Reds abysmal outfield play could very well have cost the game today.

Period. I don't care who is out there.

How dare you speak negatively of the sacred cow that is Adam Dunn.


People, he's a great offensive player. He cost the Reds the game today. Plain and simple.

Puffy
06-26-2005, 05:11 PM
Once again - Casey, Griffey, Dunn, Randa and Pena get 4 at bats in the game. Rich Aurilia gets 5.

I don't care how hot he has been this month, Aurilia should never get more at bats then any of the above named players. He needs to be hitting 7th, plain and simple.

SirFelixCat
06-26-2005, 05:12 PM
Dude, what are you talking about?

Adam Dunn made a bad mistake last Inning. No one's trying to "cover" for Dunn there. Because he thought Lopez had the play made, he couldn't "hustle" because he thought that his "hustle" would have run him right into the Shortstop. Dunn's brain said "give way".

Dude, the OF has the right of way, when coming in for a ball as opposed to an IF'er going out. You know this. I know this. They know this.

Big Klu
06-26-2005, 05:12 PM
Once again - Casey, Griffey, Dunn, Randa and Pena get 4 at bats in the game. Rich Aurilia gets 5.

I don't care how hot he has been this month, Aurilia should never get more at bats then any of the above named players. He needs to be hitting 7th, plain and simple.

I'm with ya.

PuffyPig
06-26-2005, 05:13 PM
Once again - Casey, Griffey, Dunn, Randa and Pena get 4 at bats in the game. Rich Aurilia gets 5.

I don't care how hot he has been this month, Aurilia should never get more at bats then any of the above named players. He needs to be hitting 7th, plain and simple.

That post should close this thread.

End the thread the same way we start it.

Complaining about the construction of the lineup.

TeamBoone
06-26-2005, 05:13 PM
I tend to agree with you, but this seems to be anything but an isolated case. Dunn continues to show questionable judgment in LF, and seems to be content with being a below-average defensive outfielder when he possesses the skills to be an above-average first baseman--yet he has actively shown a resistance to moving to a position at which he would be superior.

You make it sound like Adam Dunn was offered the position and turned it down.

Has he ever declined to play there when asked to fill in? We all know that he prefers the outfield to first base, but that's just a personal preference; we all have them.

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2005, 05:14 PM
If Dunn had ran over Lopez and injured him, Dunn would be getting bashed right about now. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I don't remember this much fussing over WMP misplaying two balls in the last couple weeks and then jogging after the ball.

lollipopcurve
06-26-2005, 05:14 PM
Dunn's OF instincts are not particularly good. It's obvious. If he works at it, in time he can be better. But I'd move him to first.

The thing that sticks in my craw about this game is Casey swinging at ball 4 twice in the first inning with runners on first and second. Should have been bases loaded no outs and Sabathia on the ropes in a big way.

MWM
06-26-2005, 05:15 PM
Come on. It has been discussed here and elsewhere the Dunn has stated that he does not like to nor want to play first base. It is pretty much common knowledge.

I've heard rumor and innuendo, but I don't think it's common knowledge. I've not read anything substantive about his unwillingness to move to 1B. If it's such common knowledge, then you should have no problem finding a source. Because something has been "discussed here" doesn't give it any more credence.

Besides, why are we even discussing this when Sean Casey has been the everyday first baseman for 7 years now? I don't recall Dunn ever resisting any move to 1B, but how would it look if he were campaigning for his friend's job? Why are we criticizing a guy for "actively" rejecting a job that has never even been open. Makes no sense to me.

SteelSD
06-26-2005, 05:15 PM
Dude, the OF has the right of way, when coming in for a ball as opposed to an IF'er going out. You know this. I know this. They know this.

Has the "right of way"?

Again, whether or not Felipe SHOULD have given way to Dunn isn't the issue. Dunn thought Felipe had the play made. Because of that, his brain told him to pull up or he'd smash his 6'6" body right into Felipe. He was wrong, but it wasn't an effort issue.

No one yet has said anything about Dunn NOT making a mistake, so your "sacred cow" comment is most definitely misplaced.

But it sure as heck wasn't an effort issue.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 05:15 PM
Someone else posted that Dunn is not in favor of a move to 1st because he doesn't want to see Casey traded.

Oh well..game over.

SirFelixCat
06-26-2005, 05:15 PM
If Dunn had ran over Lopez and injured him, Dunn would be getting bashed right about now. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I don't remember this much fussing over WMP mis-playing two balls in the last couple weeks and then jogging after the ball.

I would have had I not been at work and seen them.

Puffy
06-26-2005, 05:16 PM
That post should close this thread.

End the thread the same way we start it.

Complaining about the construction of the lineup.

Whatever. I have been saying the same thing all week - even when the Reds won three straight with Aurilia second in the lineup.

Just because you agree with everything the Reds do isn't my problem.

TeamBoone
06-26-2005, 05:17 PM
The Reds abysmal outfield play could very well have cost the game today.

Period. I don't care who is out there.

What about the one earlier that Aurilia botched?

There are always a lot of plays that could have been handled differently in ANY game that could/would influence the outcome. But they don't loom as large as those that occur late.

You may be right, perhaps he wasn't hustling. I didn't see it that way. I'm going to watch the highlights on Reds Wrap and take a second look.

TeamBoone
06-26-2005, 05:19 PM
OK, I just watched it. There's no way he wasn't hustling. He was looking at the ball all the way, and it appeared to me that he didn't see Lopez until the last minute (who was also looking at the ball), so he slowed to let him take it (and he was right on top of him when he did). If he hadn't slowed, he'd have bowled him over.

westofyou
06-26-2005, 05:20 PM
I swear I would have yanked Dunn out of the game right then and there and ripped into his ass. No excuse for not hustling on that play. Disgusting!

No one to replace him with

Pena - RF
Romano - CF
Cruz - PH
Griffey - DH

I'm not going to debate the play, but I will debate that that would have left the Reds without a PH for Romano in the 9th inning.

If the game is important enough to make an example out of a player than it's important enough not to give it away by cutting off your nose to spite your face.

It wouldn't be fair to the team IMO to mess with your assets to make a point that might be being made right now if indeed it's what they believed to happen.

But let's also note that Narron declared the other day that he thought the Reds needed more outfield instruction and that he was going to take care of that.

TeamBoone
06-26-2005, 05:23 PM
Someone else posted that Dunn is not in favor of a move to 1st because he doesn't want to see Casey traded.

Oh well..game over.

That was nothing more than a tongue-in-cheek conspiracy theory, Krono.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 05:24 PM
That was nothing more than a tongue-in-cheek conspiracy theory, Krono.
I like those ;)

CTA513
06-26-2005, 05:24 PM
The ball should have been caught no matter how you dice it.
Weathers got the short end of the stick today.

TeamBoone
06-26-2005, 05:26 PM
I like those ;)

Me too; it was fun at the time.

SirFelixCat
06-26-2005, 05:27 PM
No one to replace him with

Pena - RF
Romano - CF
Cruz - PH
Griffey - DH

I'm not going to debate the play, but I will debate that that would have left the Reds without a PH for Romano in the 9th inning.

If the game is important enough to make an example out of a player than it's important enough not to give it away by cutting off your nose to spite your face.

It wouldn't be fair to the team IMO to mess with your assets to make a point that might be being made right now if indeed it's what they believed to happen.

But let's also note that Narron declared the other day that he thought the Reds needed more outfield instruction and that he was going to take care of that.

I'll grant you that. I hadn't thought of that. Good point.

But, IMO, it still does not excuse him. Agree to disagree people.

TeamBoone
06-26-2005, 05:28 PM
The ball should have been caught no matter how you dice it.
Weathers got the short end of the stick today.

I sooooooooooo wish we could see the outcome of should/coulda/woulda.

If you get a chance to see the replay, please take a good look. If Dunn had not slowed, both he and Felipe would be hurting right now... or perhaps just one or the other. It was a collision on the brink.

Would that make everyone happy?

Big Klu
06-26-2005, 05:31 PM
No one to replace him with

Pena - RF
Romano - CF
Cruz - PH
Griffey - DH

I'm not going to debate the play, but I will debate that that would have left the Reds without a PH for Romano in the 9th inning.

If the game is important enough to make an example out of a player than it's important enough not to give it away by cutting off your nose to spite your face.

It wouldn't be fair to the team IMO to mess with your assets to make a point that might be being made right now if indeed it's what they believed to happen.

But let's also note that Narron declared the other day that he thought the Reds needed more outfield instruction and that he was going to take care of that.

woy,

You are the voice of reason. I would not advocate taking him out in the middle of the inning either. That is a very serious move to make, which tends to antagonize a lot of people, and should only even be considered when there is an obvious lack of effort, which I do not believe is the case. But I do think it was a grievous lack of judgment on his part.

BTW, since Dunn was scheduled to be the eighth batter in the ninth inning, they could have put Griffey in CF, with Romano moving to LF, eliminated the DH, and inserted Weathers in Dunn's #6 slot. Then Cruz would still be available to pinch-hit for Romano in the ninth. (Not saying that I would have done this, but it was a possible option.)

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 05:31 PM
yup its sure is Randas fault that Dunn or Lopez didnt catch that fly ball.

Dude, if you can't see that the greater sin was swinging on the first pitch with two men on and nobody out with the guy in front of you just having walked on 5 pitches, then heaven help you. Randa had choice to take a pitch. Dunn was reacting. Yet no one was outraged at Randa's egregious mistake (largely because Dunn saved his bacon).

MWM
06-26-2005, 05:32 PM
No one's disagreeing that it was a mistake. The disagreement is whether it was effort or judgement. Dunn's not a very cerebral player at this stage in his career. He makes more mistakes than he should, but I don't think it's because he's not trying.

SteelSD
06-26-2005, 05:32 PM
I'll grant you that. I hadn't thought of that. Good point.

But, IMO, it still does not excuse him. Agree to disagree people.

That's the thing.

Name one person who's on this thread who's been excusing Dunn for making a mistake on that play.

You won't be able to.

westofyou
06-26-2005, 05:32 PM
BTW, since Dunn was scheduled to be the eighth batter in the ninth inning, they could have put Griffey in CF, with Romano moving to LF, eliminated the DH, and inserted Weathers in Dunn's #6 slot. Then Cruz would still be available to pinch-hit for Romano in the ninth. (Not saying that I would have done this, but it was a possible option.)

Yes I knew that, but a guy would have to be a Alex Johnson type of player to get a manager to do that.

CTA513
06-26-2005, 05:33 PM
I sooooooooooo wish we could see the outcome of should/coulda/woulda.

If you get a chance to see the replay, please take a good look. If Dunn had not slowed, both he and Felipe would be hurting right now... or perhaps just one or the other. It was a collision on the brink.

Would that make everyone happy?

Yes I would have loved to see that. :rolleyes:

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 05:35 PM
Ah well, silver lining: each loss brings us a little closer to DanO's exit.

CTA513
06-26-2005, 05:35 PM
Dude, if you can't see that the greater sin was swinging on the first pitch with two men on and nobody out with the guy in front of you just having walked on 5 pitches, then heaven help you. Randa had choice to take a pitch. Dunn was reacting. Yet no one was outraged at Randa's egregious mistake (largely because Dunn saved his bacon).

I agree its totally Randas fault, he should be beaten for it.

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 05:36 PM
I agree its totally Randas fault, he should be beaten for it.

I've heard of worse punishments. ;) But really it is his fault.

KronoRed
06-26-2005, 05:38 PM
Beaten?

Get a rope :cool:

Big Klu
06-26-2005, 05:42 PM
woy,

Option #2: Insert Cruz in LF. PH Valentin for Romano in the ninth. If the Reds tie or take the lead, Valentin stays in to C, Peņa moves to CF, and LaRue moves to the OF (either in RF, or to LF with Cruz moving to RF). I would not advocate this move either, but it is yet another option. :D

37red
06-26-2005, 06:03 PM
Why in the world would you play Dunn over Casey? Casey is a fine first baseman, better batter and hustles more. It must be hot in here, everyone needs to turn up the AC and have a cold one.

traderumor
06-26-2005, 06:04 PM
That was Dunn's ball, a routine fly actually, way too deep into left for a shortstop to take. Just a botched play at the worst possible time. So I guess Narron will have to get that whip out that he talked about in his inaugural press conference, eh?

Falls City Beer
06-26-2005, 06:04 PM
woy,

Option #2: Insert Cruz in LF. PH Valentin for Romano in the ninth. If the Reds tie or take the lead, Valentin stays in to C, Peņa moves to CF, and LaRue moves to the OF (either in RF, or to LF with Cruz moving to RF). I would not advocate this move either, but it is yet another option. :D

Or Option #3: bring up Kearns and keep his bat in the outfield rotation. And just forget all about what a stupid idea it was to send him down in the first place.

Then trade whichever of the two (Kearns or Pena) gets hot first. Problem solved.

CTA513
06-26-2005, 06:08 PM
That was Dunn's ball, a routine fly actually, way too deep into left for a shortstop to take. Just a botched play at the worst possible time. So I guess Narron will have to get that whip out that he talked about in his inaugural press conference, eh?

It should have been Dunns ball all the way, but you have players like Lopez, Freel and Aurilia that feel like they have to run over to ther players positions to catch balls.

I think Romano could have had a chance at getting that bloop fly ball that was hit in between Romano, Aurilia and Pena earlier in the game.

They all need to give each other room to play there positions.

pedro
06-26-2005, 06:11 PM
Why in the world would you play Dunn over Casey? Casey is a fine first baseman, better batter and hustles more. It must be hot in here, everyone needs to turn up the AC and have a cold one.

Because Casey isn't that good?

Casey hustles more. hmmmm.

Casey may be a better hitter in terms of BA, but the rest of his offensive game is putrid. It's amazing to me that the Reds have scored as many runs as they have with him in the 3 hole, where he is an absolute liability.

Big Klu
06-26-2005, 06:11 PM
Or Option #3: bring up Kearns and keep his bat in the outfield rotation. And just forget all about what a stupid idea it was to send him down in the first place.


Not an option. You can't make a roster move in the middle of the game. (And yes, I know you were being sarcastic.)

However, I disagree that it was a stupid idea to send him to AAA in the first place. He played on an every-day basis while Peņa was on the DL, and frankly he played his way to AAA. I think the straw that broke the camel's back was the pinch-hit appearance he had in the ninth inning (I think it was against Tampa Bay) where he walked up to the plate, watched three pitches go by, and walked back to the dugout as if nothing had happened.

PuffyPig
06-26-2005, 07:40 PM
Whatever. I have been saying the same thing all week - even when the Reds won three straight with Aurilia second in the lineup.

Just because you agree with everything the Reds do isn't my problem.



You misinterpreted what I was saying.

I wasn't disagreeing with you; I just thought your post would have brought closure to a painful loss. I thought it was funny. And yes I know, you have been saying it all week, and longer probably.

For the record, I've been one of the few posters here who has supported Lopez right from the get-go. I"m one of the few that said that his range was desparately needed if we were to improve this year. I thought that our infield defense was as bad last year as our pitching, and thatLopez would help solve that problem (not the pitching, but the MI defense). I never liked the idea of Aurilla starting over Lopez, nor did I ever like the idea of him hitting second(other than when Freel was injured and he was red hot). I've always liked the idea of Dunn hitting before Casey, but always knew that the Reds weren't likely to do it. It's just that I don't see the need to complain about it at the start of every game like it's a new thing. I"ve always been an advocate that you want your best hitters to get the most AB's, it's only common sense. With Freel injured, I'd put Dunn at bat 2nd. WIth Freel in the lineup, I'd put him 3rd.

For the record, there can be no real disagreement that Dunn should have caught that ball. He wanted nothing to do with it, and Lopez wouldn't have been out so far if Dunn had played it anywhere close to what a major league LF is expected to do. Dunn never looks particularly good even on easy outs, which that should have been.

While it's esy to criticize Randa for swinging at the first pitch, you see players all the time doing it when they think that pitchers will try and "groove" one when they are having control problems. I didn't get a good look at the pitches location, but Randa did get pretty good wood on it.

traderumor
06-26-2005, 08:02 PM
It should have been Dunns ball all the way, but you have players like Lopez, Freel and Aurilia that feel like they have to run over to ther players positions to catch balls.

I think Romano could have had a chance at getting that bloop fly ball that was hit in between Romano, Aurilia and Pena earlier in the game.

They all need to give each other room to play there positions.That was in no way's Felipe's fault. He should go out, though, until Dunn calls him off. He may have not realized it was too deep until he got back there, but Lopez didn't do anything wrong on that play.

TeamBoone
06-26-2005, 08:48 PM
For the record, there can be no real disagreement that Dunn should have caught that ball. He wanted nothing to do with it, and Lopez wouldn't have been out so far if Dunn had played it anywhere close to what a major league LF is expected to do. Dunn never looks particularly good even on easy outs, which that should have been.

Actually, yes, there can. You see it your way, and I see it mine.

I've watched the replay several times. He was NOT dogging it on that play. Had he not slowed, he would have wiped out Felipe.

Should the ball have been caught? Absolutely! But not at the expense of injury to either player.