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WVRed
07-07-2005, 06:26 AM
90 people killed so far. :(

dman
07-07-2005, 06:26 AM
On multiple news forums right now. At least 90 casualties on the subway & bus systems. :confused: :thumbdown

dman
07-07-2005, 06:30 AM
Sorry WV, didn't see your thread. Could Al Qada be upping the ante again?

RedFanAlways1966
07-07-2005, 07:30 AM
Some Euro Islamic group has just taken credit for the terror in London.

NYMoose
07-07-2005, 08:16 AM
Casualties in the UK are not deaths. There are reports of a few deaths so far.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-07-2005, 08:58 AM
Al Qaeda is evil. So is any person or group who sympathizes with their cause.

God bless London and the people of the UK.

And please, anyone here who uses mass transit to get to work in NY, DC, Chicago or anywhere else be extra alert and careful today.

MWM
07-07-2005, 08:59 AM
I've always thought the Subway systems are an easy target for terrorists and tey could probably carry out mass attacks there whenever they wanted. It will happen here eventaully, too.

Reds/Flyers Fan
07-07-2005, 09:15 AM
The AP is now reporting 40 dead in London.

NBC News also reported "cheering" by radicals in Iraq and calls on radical Islamic Web sites to phone in bomb threats to London police to disrupt and confuse rescue operations.

registerthis
07-07-2005, 09:30 AM
Some Euro Islamic group has just taken credit for the terror in London.
Which means it probably wasn't them.

Whenever the group claiming responsiblity is labeled as "previously unknown", it's a safe bet that they had nothing to do with it.

I don't think this is G-8 related, either. it's too complex for the G-8 protester idiots. This has all the marks of an Al Queda attack...seemingly.

registerthis
07-07-2005, 09:30 AM
The AP is now reporting 40 dead in London.

NBC News also reported "cheering" by radicals in Iraq and calls on radical Islamic Web sites to phone in bomb threats to London police to disrupt and confuse rescue operations.
CNN reported that mobile phone services were being shut down in london to prevent just that type of thing.

HotCorner
07-07-2005, 10:09 AM
Per CNN.com



A group calling itself the "Secret Organization group of al-Qaeda Organization in Europe" claimed responsibility in a Web site posting.

Johnny Footstool
07-07-2005, 10:41 AM
Was the Terror Alert elevated yesterday? Even though these attacks didn't occur in the US, it seems like if anyone had any information about attacks anywhere, there would be at least a heightened level of alert. If not, I really question why we even have Terror Alert levels.

RedFanAlways1966
07-07-2005, 10:48 AM
Was the Terror Alert elevated yesterday? Even though these attacks didn't occur in the US, it seems like if anyone had any information about attacks anywhere, there would be at least a heightened level of alert. If not, I really question why we even have Terror Alert levels.

I am not sure I understand, Johnny. I do not think anyone had any information on these attacks except the terrorists themselves.

If something was known yesterday and the attacks happened today, then someone needs to answer to why they did not warn the public or do something about attacks they knew about hours in advance.

I do not think though that I understand your question in your above post, so excuse me If I am reading your message wrong.

NJReds
07-07-2005, 10:59 AM
link (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050707/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_britain_explosions_1)


Netanyahu Changed Plans Due to Warning
By AMY TEIBEL, Associated Press Writer
Thu Jul 7, 7:14 AM ET

British police told the Israeli Embassy in London minutes before Thursday's explosions that they had received warnings of possible terror attacks in the city, a senior Israeli official said.

Israeli Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had planned to attend an economic conference in a hotel over the subway stop where one of the blasts occurred, and the warning prompted him to stay in his hotel room instead, government officials said.

Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom said he wasn't aware of any Israeli casualties.

Just before the blasts, Scotland Yard called the security officer at the Israeli Embassy to say they had received warnings of possible attacks, the official said. He did not say whether British police made any link to the economic conference.

The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the nature of his position.

The Israeli Embassy was in a state of emergency after the explosions in London, with no one allowed to enter or leave, said the Israeli ambassador to London, Zvi Hefet.

All phone lines to the embassy were down, said Danny Biran, an Israeli Foreign Ministry official.

The ministry set up a situation room to deal with hundreds of phone calls from concerned relatives. Thousands of Israelis are living in London or visiting the city at this time, Biran said.

Amir Gilad, a Netanyahu aide, told Israel Radio that Netanyahu's entourage was receiving updates all morning from British security officials, and "we have also asked to change our plans."

Netanyahu had been scheduled to stay in London until Sunday, but that could change, Gilad said.

Johnny Footstool
07-07-2005, 11:11 AM
'66, I was just wondering if Homeland Security had any intelligence about this attack. If they did, I thought they would have raised the Threat Level. If they didn't, then I questioned their value as a source of early warnings about terrorist activity.

I guess I missed this article:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-05-10-ridge-alerts_x.htm


Posted 5/10/2005 11:21 PM
Ridge reveals clashes on alerts

By Mimi Hall, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON The Bush administration periodically put the USA on high alert for terrorist attacks even though then-Homeland Security chief Tom Ridge argued there was only flimsy evidence to justify raising the threat level, Ridge now says.
Ridge, who resigned Feb. 1, said Tuesday that he often disagreed with administration officials who wanted to elevate the threat level to orange, or "high" risk of terrorist attack, but was overruled.

His comments at a Washington forum describe spirited debates over terrorist intelligence and provide rare insight into the inner workings of the nation's homeland security apparatus.

Ridge said he wanted to "debunk the myth" that his agency was responsible for repeatedly raising the alert under a color-coded system he unveiled in 2002.

"More often than not we were the least inclined to raise it," Ridge told reporters. "Sometimes we disagreed with the intelligence assessment. Sometimes we thought even if the intelligence was good, you don't necessarily put the country on (alert). ... There were times when some people were really aggressive about raising it, and we said, 'For that?' "

Revising or scrapping the color-coded alert system is under review by new Homeland Security secretary Michael Chertoff. Department spokesman Brian Roehrkasse said "improvements and adjustments" may be announced within the next few months.

The threat level was last raised on a nationwide scale in December 2003, to orange from yellow or "elevated" risk where the alert level is now. In most cases, Ridge said Homeland Security officials didn't want to raise the level because they knew local governments and businesses would have to spend money putting temporary security upgrades in place.

"You have to use that tool of communication very sparingly," Ridge said at the forum, which was attended by seven other former department leaders.

The level is raised if a majority on the President's Homeland Security Advisory Council favors it and President Bush concurs. Among those on the council with Ridge were Attorney General John Ashcroft, FBI chief Robert Mueller, CIA director George Tenet, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Secretary of State Colin Powell.

Ridge and Ashcroft publicly clashed over how to communicate threat information to the public. But Ridge has never before discussed internal dissention over the threat level.

The color-coded system was controversial from the start. Polls showed the public found it confusing.

According to the Homeland Security web site, the Threat Level hasn't changed since April 6, 2005. So I guess they aren't even using it anymore.

pedro
07-07-2005, 12:20 PM
Here's the link to teh BBC article. There are some maps showing the distribution of teh bombs and some other inof not on US websites yet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/uk/05/london_blasts/html/default.stm

NJReds
07-07-2005, 02:56 PM
Was the Terror Alert elevated yesterday? Even though these attacks didn't occur in the US, it seems like if anyone had any information about attacks anywhere, there would be at least a heightened level of alert. If not, I really question why we even have Terror Alert levels.

It wasn't yesterday...but they've upped it to Orange today.


U.S. Raises Alert to Orange for Transit
By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer

The Bush administration raised the terror alert a notch to code orange for the nation's mass transit systems on Thursday, responding to a spate of deadly rush-hour bus and subway bombings in London.

"Obviously we're concerned about the possibility of a copycat attack," said Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff.

The heightened alert will apply to "regional and inter-city passenger rail, subways and metropolitan bus systems," Chertoff said at a news conference.

Security at foreign embassies in Washington was also increased, particularly around the British Embassy, said State Department spokesman Sean McCormack.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice issued a strong condemnation of the attacks as the work of terrorists.

"The United States condemns the terrorist attacks in London this morning," Rice said in a statement. She offered U.S. support to the British government and people and also ordered U.S. embassies around the world "to review their security posture," McCormack said.

Raising the alert level to orange, or high, means local officials are urged to implement heightened security measures such as increasing police patrols, inspecting some cars and using bomb-sniffing dogs.

Chertoff said that U.S. authorities have "no specific credible evidence" pointing toward an attack in the United States. At the same time, he said, "we are also asking for increased vigilance" particularly in the U.S. transportation system.

He stressed that authorities are not asking Americans to avoid using their subways and bus systems in light of the worst attack in London since World War II. To the contrary, he said those who use mass transit should continue to do so.

About 29 million people take commuter trains and subways daily in the United States, with the New York City area accounting for about a third of the total, said Alan Pisarski, a Washington-based national transportation policy analyst. The next-largest systems are Chicago, Washington, Boston and Philadelphia. San Francisco has the largest system on the West Coast.

Chertoff told reporters he was not aware of any specific evidence that had foretold the attacks in London. Dozens of rush-hour commuters were killed and hundreds injured when four blasts went off in the city's subway system and a bus.

"I think our transit systems are safe," Chertoff said, adding that there have been vast improvements in the nearly four years since terrorists struck the United States on Sept. 11, 2001.

The terror alert had not been raised in the United States since last August, when the Homeland Security Department increased it to orange or high for financial institutions in Washington, New York and Newark, N.J., in the run up to the November elections.

President Bush, in Scotland for a meeting of the Group of Eight leaders, conferred in a secure video conference with national security and homeland security officials in Washington.

"I instructed them to be in touch with local and state officials about the facts of what took place here and in London," Bush told reporters from a summit of world leaders. Bush said he urged caution "as our folks start heading to work."

Rice telephoned British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw offering assistance. She also visited the British Embassy in Washington to sign a condolence book.

"These were simply innocent people, many of them on their way to work on a beautiful Thursday," she said at the embassy, adding: "Terrorists know that they cannot win. We remain resolved in our determination to root out this scourge against humanity and against civilization."

David Manning, the British ambassador, said in reply, "This is a barbaric act, but we will not be shaken by it."

"It may take some time to untangle this," Rice said earlier in an interview with the BBC. "But whoever did this, it's a part of clearly a concerted campaign to try and terrorize innocent people and it's certainly not going to succeed."

U.S. officials were trying to determine whether an al-Qaida cell's claim of responsibility for the London attacks was credible. A U.S. official speaking on condition of anonymity because events were still unfolding said analysts were sifting through recent intelligence for evidence that other attacks might be in the works.

A senior U.S. counterterrorism official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said that because the attacks were well-coordinated and appeared fairly sophisticated, they were consistent with al-Qaida's methodology.

Recent intelligence indicated that London was considered a prime target for Islamic extremists, in part because al-Qaida was having difficulty getting people into the United States, the official said.

Security was stepped up in Washington, with bomb-sniffing dogs and armed police officers patrolling subways and buses. Police carrying rifles rode some trains, and passengers were being urged to report any suspicious activity. Security was also stepped up at the Pentagon and on Amtrak.

At the U.S. Capitol, public tours continued unabated, while armed Capitol Police officers patrolled outside, as they do every day.

Though Congress was in recess, lawmakers were quick to condemn the London attacks. Traveling in Africa, Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., denounced them as "cowardly acts against innocent people."

"The United States cannot be intimidated and our efforts will not be deterred," Frist said in a statement. "We stand by the British people in their hour of need as they have done for us. My sympathies go out to the people of London."

Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada said he and other leaders "stand in complete solidarity with Prime Minister Blair and President Bush, and all the leaders of the G-8 Summit, who pledged their commitment and resolve to fight and defeat this kind of extremism and hatred wherever it exists in the world."

Matt700wlw
07-07-2005, 03:07 PM
Thoughts and prayers to all those in London.

It's a shame that the world has to be like this :(

Mutaman
07-07-2005, 03:30 PM
According to the Homeland Security web site, the Threat Level hasn't changed since April 6, 2005. So I guess they aren't even using it anymore.

It would be interesting to know the statistics concerning increases in the threat levels and color codes prior to the November election and subsequent thereto. I would bet there has been a significant reduction.

Aceking
07-07-2005, 05:17 PM
Borgman's reaction

http://borgman.enquirer.com/img/daily/2005/07/borgman_07082005_600.jpg

dsmith421
07-07-2005, 05:24 PM
Here's the link to teh BBC article. There are some maps showing the distribution of teh bombs and some other inof not on US websites yet.


When I moved to London, before I found an apartment, I lived in a hostel less than a quarter-mile from Tavistock Place, where the double-decker was destroyed.

After I moved to Islington, I rode the Piccadilly line from Finsbury Park or Arsenal to King's Cross every day, where the big tube attack was.

I still can't imagine what the victims thought was happening. I remember thinking how vulnerable the whole thing seemed. I still love London, and would move back there in a second--those people are tough, and they'll be back on their feet in no time.

pedro
07-07-2005, 05:34 PM
When I moved to London, before I found an apartment, I lived in a hostel less than a quarter-mile from Tavistock Place, where the double-decker was destroyed.

After I moved to Islington, I rode the Piccadilly line from Finsbury Park or Arsenal to King's Cross every day, where the big tube attack was.

I still can't imagine what the victims thought was happening. I remember thinking how vulnerable the whole thing seemed. I still love London, and would move back there in a second--those people are tough, and they'll be back on their feet in no time.

I've been in the tubes. IIRC they are much deeper than the NYC subway and the entry ways are often such small staircases. Getting medical support down there must be really hard.

CrackerJack
07-07-2005, 06:58 PM
Borgman's reaction

http://borgman.enquirer.com/img/daily/2005/07/borgman_07082005_600.jpg

I can't help but to find this to be a bit silly, and a bit over-the-top. Fight them on our buses? Is he being sarcastic with his cartoon or serious?

Steve4192
07-07-2005, 07:20 PM
I can't help but to find this to be a bit silly, and a bit over-the-top. Fight them on our buses? Is he being sarcastic with his cartoon or serious?
I'm guessing you are assuming that the picture is of some random Brit. It is not. Borgman's drawing is of Winston Churchill and the 'fight them on the beaches' speech was his first as prime minister of England and one of the most famous of his extremely quotable career.

to the House of Commons on May 13, 1940 in his first
address as the newly appointed Prime Minister.

"...We shall not flag nor fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France and on the seas and oceans; we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air. We shall defend our island whatever the cost may be; we shall fight on beaches, landing grounds, in fields, in streets and on the hills. We shall never surrender and even if, which I do not for the moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, will carry on the struggle until in God's good time the New World with all its power and might, sets forth to the liberation and rescue of the Old."

Borgman has merely updated Churchill's speech to reflect the modern situation.