PDA

View Full Version : Iran executes gay teens



Michael Allred
07-23-2005, 07:46 PM
From 365gay.com Newswire...
http://www.365gay.com/newscon05/07/072105iran.htm



Iranian Gay Teens Executed

(London) Two teenagers have been executed after a religious court found them them guilty of homosexuality according to pro-Democracy groups. The Iranian Students News Agency reports that the executions took place on July 19 in the northeastern city of Mashhad. One teen, ISNA says was 18, the other was a minor, believed to be 16 or 17. The organization ran a picture of what it said was the execution on its Web site.

The English language "Iran In Focus" also reported the executions, saying the teens were hanged in public in the city square. It quotes sources as saying the teens were executed for having sex with another minor but this could not be confirmed. The report does not name the victim. Under Sharia law the victim of a sexual assault must also be executed.

Both news services say that prior to their execution, the teenagers were held in prison for 14 months, severely beaten and given the lash 228 times. A report of the executions was also carried on the website of the respected democratic opposition movement, The National Council of Resistance Of Iran.

Ruhollah Rezazadeh, the lawyer for the younger teen reportedly had appealed the death sentence but the Supreme Court in Tehran ordered him to be hanged. Under the Iranian penal code, girls as young as nine and boys as young as 15 can be hanged.

Three other young gay Iranians are reportedly being hunted by police, but they are said to have gone into hiding and cannot be found. If caught, they would also face execution.

The British LGBT rights group OutRage has called for sanctions against Iran. The organization has called for western states to break off diplomatic relations, impose trade sanctions and treat Iran as "a pariah state".

"This is just the latest barbarity by the Islamo-fascists in Iran,” said OutRage spokesperson Peter Tatchell. "The entire country is a gigantic prison, with Islamic rule sustained by detention without trial, torture and state-sanctioned murder.

"According to Iranian human rights campaigners, over 4,000 lesbians and gay men have been executed since the Ayatollahs seized power in 1979," said Tatchell.

Iran In Focus reports that members of Iran’s parliament are applauding the court for carrying out the death sentence on the teens.

"These individuals were corrupt. Their sentence was carried out with the approval of the judiciary and it served them right,” the publication quotes Ali Asgari, a member of the Majlis Party Legal Affairs Committee.

At least three men have been sentenced over the past month to death by stoning in Nigeria which also follows Sharia law in several provinces.

In March a gay couple was beheaded in a public execution in Saudi Arabia. The pair had been convicted of killing a blackmailer who had threatened to expose them to authorities. Hundreds of other gays have been rounded up by Saudi authorities in recent months.


and they say Muslims are unfairly covered in the media.....

RFS62
07-23-2005, 07:58 PM
wow

Ravenlord
07-23-2005, 08:06 PM
has anyone actually read the Qu'ran here?

Michael Allred
07-23-2005, 08:09 PM
Has the Bush administration condemed this yet?

Jaycint
07-23-2005, 08:11 PM
Unbelievable. Can't we maybe just, oh say just for the heck of it, send over a couple covert ops guys and whack all the clerics that are actually running that terrorist state? Nothing stupid like a full scale invasion or war (we have proof to the west that that is problematic) but maybe just a well place bullet behind the ear?

Ravenlord
07-23-2005, 08:57 PM
Unbelievable. Can't we maybe just, oh say just for the heck of it, send over a couple covert ops guys and whack all the clerics that are actually running that terrorist state? Nothing stupid like a full scale invasion or war (we have proof to the west that that is problematic) but maybe just a well place bullet behind the ear?
...Great nations built from the bones of the dead
With mud and straw, blood and sweat,
You know your worth when your enemies
Praise your architecture of aggression

Ensuing power vacuum
A toppled leader dies
His body fuels the power fire
And the flames rise to the sky...

excerpt "Architecture of Aggression" by Megadeth

Unassisted
07-23-2005, 09:12 PM
Has the Bush administration condemed this yet?Hope you're not holding your breath waiting for that to happen. Condi's been busy this week keeping NBC's Andrea Mitchell from being hauled off to Sudanese prison for asking tough questions of the dictator over in The Sudan. I imagine that took up all of her spare time.

Michael Allred
07-23-2005, 09:23 PM
Hope you're not holding your breath waiting for that to happen. Condi's been busy this week keeping NBC's Andrea Mitchell from being hauled off to Sudanese prison for asking tough questions of the dictator over in The Sudan. I imagine that took up all of her spare time.

I was more or less being sarcastic with my comment. I would never expect Bush and co. to say a thing about it lest they appear to condone a "sinful lifestyle."

Hobo
07-23-2005, 10:02 PM
Under Sharia law the victim of a sexual assault must also be executed.

Under the Iranian penal code, girls as young as nine and boys as young as 15 can be hanged.


Wow, I don't condem anyone's belief system, but c'mon.

RFS62
07-23-2005, 10:22 PM
Wow, I don't condem anyone's belief system, but c'mon.


Hobo, I love your sig line. That's good advice, and I plan to take it.

bottom_feeder
07-23-2005, 10:56 PM
Unbelievable. Can't we maybe just, oh say just for the heck of it, send over a couple covert ops guys and whack all the clerics that are actually running that terrorist state? Nothing stupid like a full scale invasion or war (we have proof to the west that that is problematic) but maybe just a well place bullet behind the ear?

I apologize if you are only joking, but how would you like it if some Iranians murdered our government leaders because they thought we were immoral? I agree with you that what Iran did was wrong, but America has no right to declare itself as policeman of the entire world. I certainly don't want to risk the lives of anymore of our servicemen to try to "save" these backwards Arab countries.

Edit: I don't want to offend anyone, but why do Americans feel as though they have to administer Clint Eastwood justice everywhere? We have enough problems of our own. I hope I didn't make you mad JayCint. I just wanted to get that out. I know you were probably just mad at the atrocity. I agree that it is an atrocity.

Jaycint
07-23-2005, 11:05 PM
I apologize if you are only joking, but how would you like it if some Iranians murdered our government leaders because they thought we were immoral? I agree with you that what Iran did was wrong, but America has no right to declare itself as policeman of the entire world. I certainly don't want to risk the lives of anymore of our servicemen to try to "save" these backwards Arab countries.

Edit: I don't want to offend anyone, but why do Americans feel as though they have to administer Clint Eastwood justice everywhere? We have enough problems of our own. I hope I didn't make you mad JayCint. I just wanted to get that out. I know you were probably just mad at the atrocity. I agree that it is an atrocity.

I'm not kidding at all. While my initial comments might have been tinged with anger at the specific atrocity I still wouldn't mind seeing some sort of regime change there. Iran is the biggest state sponsor of terror in the world. Couple that with murdering people because of their sexual orientation as well as murdering the victims of rapes and I would have no problem with a couple of clerics taking a long dirt nap. I don't agree with the U.S. "policing" the world in general but I'll make an exception in this case.

Mutaman
07-24-2005, 02:47 AM
"In political developments on Saturday, Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari led a high-level delegation to Iran for a three-day trip intended to mend relations. The new Iraqi government has sought to repair ties with Iran and end tensions that peaked during the Iran-Iraq war from 1980 to 1988. Prime Minister Jaafari's three-day visit is his first to Iran in his new official role"

registerthis
07-25-2005, 11:19 AM
I'm not kidding at all. While my initial comments might have been tinged with anger at the specific atrocity I still wouldn't mind seeing some sort of regime change there. Iran is the biggest state sponsor of terror in the world. Couple that with murdering people because of their sexual orientation as well as murdering the victims of rapes and I would have no problem with a couple of clerics taking a long dirt nap. I don't agree with the U.S. "policing" the world in general but I'll make an exception in this case.
Well, the problem is that iran is far from alone in the world when it comes to gruesome acts committed against their own people. Should we invade every African nation that sponsors female genital mutilation? How about every isalmic nation whose people administer tribal justice, including stoning women who are considered adulterers? How about east Timor, where during the late 90s there was forced conscription into the rebel army for children as young as 8, with punishment being death for those that resisted?

I'm in no way suggesting that Iran is right in their actions--quite the opposite, they are barbaric, and should be condemned in the harshest possible manner. And while it may *sound* good to imagine covert U.S. forces taking out the religious lawmakers who issue such edicts, the fact is the problem runs substantially deeper than simply a few conservative religious blowhards in their government, the U.S. has never been one to adopt humanitarian missions simply for their own sake, and if they did the world offers no shortage of opportunities. It's understandable to want to eliminate people who condone such actions, but not practical or feasible.

919191
07-25-2005, 11:26 AM
Unbelievable. Can't we maybe just, oh say just for the heck of it, send over a couple covert ops guys and whack all the clerics that are actually running that terrorist state? Nothing stupid like a full scale invasion or war (we have proof to the west that that is problematic) but maybe just a well place bullet behind the ear?

And then?

Jaycint
07-25-2005, 11:59 AM
And then?

Hope the everyday joes of Iran that want major reform unite, organize and take the initiative. There is no small number of people in Iran that are far from happy with the heavy handed policies that the "clerics" have instituted.

But hey, if the problem runs much deeper than those at the top of the food chain and the people of Iran are happy with it then let them play in their sandbox and live in the 7th century.

Reg, I realize there are many humanitarian issues and problems in countries all over the world. I think the difference is that Iran is a blatant supporter of international terrorism. That's the difference between Iran and East Timor. That's the difference between Iran and most African nations. Maybe my original argument shouldn't have included the human rights issues and should have focused on the terrorism argument but since the thread was started in regards to the murder of homosexuals issue I threw that in as well. By the way I totally agree with you that we won't get involved because there is nothing really substantial for us to gain.

919191
07-25-2005, 01:27 PM
Hope the everyday joes of Iran that want major reform unite, organize and take the initiative. There is no small number of people in Iran that are far from happy with the heavy handed policies that the "clerics" have instituted.



Like in Iraq?

registerthis
07-25-2005, 01:32 PM
Reg, I realize there are many humanitarian issues and problems in countries all over the world. I think the difference is that Iran is a blatant supporter of international terrorism. That's the difference between Iran and East Timor. That's the difference between Iran and most African nations. Maybe my original argument shouldn't have included the human rights issues and should have focused on the terrorism argument but since the thread was started in regards to the murder of homosexuals issue I threw that in as well. By the way I totally agree with you that we won't get involved because there is nothing really substantial for us to gain.
If our goal was to "take out" state sponsors of terrorism, our eyes should have locked in first on Saudi Arabia.

Personally, though, I'm through with taking out governments--it costs too many innocent lives, it costs too much money, and we haven't proved particularly adept at rebuilding nations we invade. There are other ways to mitigate a state who actively sponsors terrorism--ostracizing them from the world community, for instance. Forget not that Pakistan was once an avowed ally of Osama Bin laden and his network. All it took were some threats from the Bush administration about a loss of U.S. aid and a trade blockade with the U.S. and its allies before Islamabad reconsidered. Funny thing, that.

RBA
07-25-2005, 01:57 PM
Maybe we should clean are own house before we tell others how dirty their house is?

registerthis
07-25-2005, 02:06 PM
Maybe we should clean are own house before we tell others how dirty their house is?
Nicauragua.

(Among others...)

Jaycint
07-25-2005, 02:46 PM
If our goal was to "take out" state sponsors of terrorism, our eyes should have locked in first on Saudi Arabia.

Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately our government is so deep in bed with the Saudis that that will never happen.



Personally, though, I'm through with taking out governments--it costs too many innocent lives, it costs too much money, and we haven't proved particularly adept at rebuilding nations we invade.

Note that I expressly argued AGAINST an invasion. We have proven we aren't very good at the cleanup and the customer relations after the initial butt stomping.

Jaycint
07-25-2005, 02:49 PM
Like in Iraq?

You're picking the wrong person to argue with if you want to debate Iraq. I was firmly against invading Iraq. I'm firmly against "invading" any country as a preemptive move.

Also note that I NEVER advocated doing in Iran what we did in Iraq.

If you're referring to the early 90's effort by our government to support a revolution by the Kurds in the north and the Shiites in the south then all I can say is our government dropped the ball. We talked big about backing them and supporting them and then hung them out to dry. At least from what I've read.

Jaycint
07-25-2005, 02:56 PM
Maybe we should clean are own house before we tell others how dirty their house is?

Do we execute people because of their sexual orientation in the US? Do we execute rape victims? You're right that nobody's house is clean, but let's not act like there is even a comparison between the US and Iran. If you really think that then I am beyond stunned and really have nothing else to contribute to this thread.

RBA
07-25-2005, 03:09 PM
Do we execute people because of their sexual orientation in the US? Do we execute rape victims? You're right that nobody's house is clean, but let's not act like there is even a comparison between the US and Iran. If you really think that then I am beyond stunned and really have nothing else to contribute to this thread.

No, I did not say that and thanks for putting words in my mouth. I'm saying there are plenty of injustices that occur in the good ole USA.

Do we execute people beacuse of their sexual orientation? No. Did I say that? I did not.

Isn't there a bible saying "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone".


Has anyone been killed in the United States due to their sexual orientation? Yes, just not by the government.


And that's all I'm saying right here. But if you see fit too twist my words too scold me, go ahead. It's not the first time its been done.

Jaycint
07-25-2005, 03:17 PM
No, I did not say that and thanks for putting words in my mouth. I'm saying there are plenty of injustices that occur in the good ole USA.

Do we execute people beacuse of their sexual orientation? No. Did I say that? I did not.

Isn't their a bible saying which says "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone".


Has anyone been killed in the United State due to their sexual orientation? Yes, just not by the government.


And that's all I'm saying right here. But if you see fit too twist my words too scold me, go ahead. It's not the first time its been done.

First of all I wasn't "scolding" you.

Second of all, I'm talking about, and I'm pretty positive this thread is about, government sanctioned injustices. Sure people have been murdered in this country by fellow citizens because of their sexual orientation. The government didn't authorize it did it? I mean, that is the point under discussion right? Governemnt sanctioned injustices and human rights violations. So basically you just threw out the mother of all red herrings by comparing the actions of private citizens to government sponsored acts. There is a difference. I bet I could go to any country on the face of the planet and find a private citizen that killed another because of his/her sexual orientation, religion, etc. That wasn't the topic at hand.

I'm fairly certain given the difference in our beliefs that I could come in here and say gravity existed and you'd quote what I said and tell me why it didn't. So don't act like I'm some bad guy that has to twist what you say in order to debate a topic.

RBA
07-25-2005, 03:53 PM
What differences in beliefs do you think we have?

Jaycint
07-25-2005, 04:03 PM
What differences in beliefs do you think we have?

Well mainly political. I would position myself as a slightly right leaning Libertarian. From your body of work over here, and correct me if I'm wrong, you would position yourself as a fairly far to the left Democrat. That gap leaves room for a lot of social and economic differences.

919191
07-25-2005, 04:05 PM
You're picking the wrong person to argue with if you want to debate Iraq. I was firmly against invading Iraq. I'm firmly against "invading" any country as a preemptive move.

Also note that I NEVER advocated doing in Iran what we did in Iraq.

If you're referring to the early 90's effort by our government to support a revolution by the Kurds in the north and the Shiites in the south then all I can say is our government dropped the ball. We talked big about backing them and supporting them and then hung them out to dry. At least from what I've read.

I'm not talking about supporting the war in Iraq. I am talking about the chaos that would ensue if we removed more leaders of these nations. You think a few bullets would make things stable? I think it would start more chaos.

RBA
07-25-2005, 04:40 PM
Well mainly political. I would position myself as a slightly right leaning Libertarian. From your body of work over here, and correct me if I'm wrong, you would position yourself as a fairly far to the left Democrat. That gap leaves room for a lot of social and economic differences.

What's a right leaning liberatarian? That doesn't make too much sense to me.
Just because you precieve I am fairly far left Democrat, doesn't make it the case.

Am I for Pro-Choice/Pro-Abortion - In some cases, it's case by case.
Am I for a strong military? - Yes
Was I for going to war against the Taliban - Yes
Was I for going into Iraq on a wild goose chase? No
Do I think everyone should pay their fair share of taxes? Yes
Is Big Government the answer to all our problems? No
Is Big Business bad? Is capitalism bad? No, for the most part.
Does the government have any place in the bedroom? No
Am I for the Death Penalty? In some cases.
Am I for a clean environment? Yes
Do I believe in the right to own guns? Yes
Do I believe that people should have assualt rifles? No
Should our borders be protected? Yes
Is it okay to have our military patrol our borders? Yes
Should we close down all our Nuclear power plants? No
Should the Bible be used as a basis for overturning laws/court rulings? No
Should students be able to have bible study clubs in schools? Yes
Should students be allowed to pray aloud in a classroom setting? I have no problems with a minute or two for students to meditate or pray silently.
Do I believe in God? Yes


So is that a far left Democrat?

registerthis
07-25-2005, 04:45 PM
So is that a far left Democrat?
Only if you hate Bush. ;)

registerthis
07-25-2005, 04:46 PM
I'm not talking about supporting the war in Iraq. I am talking about the chaos that would ensue if we removed more leaders of these nations. You think a few bullets would make things stable? I think it would start more chaos.
Exact-a-mundo.

RedsBaron
07-25-2005, 04:55 PM
With 20-20 hindsight, putting a bullet in the brain of Adolf Hitler in 1933 would seem to be a good idea. Unfortunately, we never have the benefit of such hindsight going in. There is usually no guarantee that whoever replaces the bad guy who is taken out will be any better, and taking such action invites a reaction. To cite just one example, it has always been rumored that Fidel Castro was involved in John F. Kennedy's murder as a result of American attempts to eliminate Castro.

Jaycint
07-25-2005, 05:02 PM
What's a right leaning liberatarian? That doesn't make too much sense too me.

That shocks me that you haven't heard the term before. I'm not the first to coin it. Within the libertarian party there are left and right factions just as there are within the other parties.




So is that a far left Democrat?

Nope. I guess I had you pegged wrong.

Jaycint
07-25-2005, 05:03 PM
Only if you hate Bush. ;)

Damn, Reg just called me a far left Democrat! :laugh:

registerthis
07-25-2005, 05:12 PM
Damn, Reg just called me a far left Democrat! :laugh:
You just blew a hole in my theory Jay.

Jaycint
07-25-2005, 05:23 PM
You just blew a hole in my theory Jay.

Haha, sorry Reg. I thought I made it pretty clear in other threads that I am not a fan at all of the Bush administration though. I do hold some conservative ideals which many people may think automatically makes me a Bush supporter but it simply isn't true. Can't stand the guy, hate his foreign policy, hate his domestic policies.

If you'll excuse me now, the Neocon side of the board smells blood in the water after that last paragraph and are probably coming for me. :laugh:

RBA
07-25-2005, 06:18 PM
That shocks me that you haven't heard the term before. I'm not the first to coin it. Within the libertarian party there are left and right factions just as there are within the other parties.





Nope. I guess I had you pegged wrong.

Hey, It wasn't too long ago where someone here thought I was a right wing dittohead.

Jaycint
07-25-2005, 06:37 PM
Hey, It wasn't too long ago where someone here thought I was a right wing dittohead.

Wow. :laugh: