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OnBaseMachine
08-09-2005, 01:49 AM
Pena isn't happy waiting for chance to start for Reds
By Hal McCoy

Dayton Daily News

CHICAGO | Wily Mo Pena said it calmly — didn't demand a trade, didn't pound his spikes on a podium, didn't threaten to turn over the postgame meal table.

That doesn't mean he is happy sitting. He's not. He wants to play and manager Jerry Narron has said, "I wouldn't want players who are happy if they aren't playing."

Pena wonders where it will lead, this four-outfielders situation where Austin Kearns is playing right field most of the time and Pena is playing some right field and a game or two in left field.

He is surprised the Reds didn't trade an outfielder, either him or Kearns.

"My agent told me there were a couple of teams interested in me (Washington, Chicago Cubs), but the Reds wouldn't do it," Pena said. "I would like them to tell me what's going on. They don't tell me anything.

"I know Kearns could start for another team and I could start for another team. This situation is not good for me. I want to play every day and it is tough to play every day in this situation.

"It's tough to play one day and not play the next, tough to get comfortable. I was 1 for 3 (Sunday) and feeling good, now I'm not in (Monday's) lineup.

"I have to wait and see because there is nothing I can do about it," said the 6-foot-3, 245-pounder who is hitting .263 with 14 homers and 35 RBIs in 213 at-bats.

"I don't feel good about this and next year we can't have four guys who can all play and start in the outfield, and I know they have to play Ken Griffey Jr. I don't want this (situation) next year. I hope something is done."

No celebrating yet

For a long period, Narron has said, "I hate it that I haven't been able to get starts for (infielder) Ray Olmedo."

Narron said today is the day — Olmedo at second base for a resting Ryan Freel, but as Narron said, "Like (former Texas manager) Johnny Oates used to say, 'It isn't written in see-ment.' "

Olmedo smiled when asked about it and said, "He has told me that before and it hasn't happened, so I'll get excited when I see my name on the lineup card."

Olmedo is hitting .333 with 27 at-bats in 22 games. He has started only two games since his June 28 callup from Class AAA Louisville and his last start was July 9.

"We'll see what happens," Olmedo said. "You have to wait for your time and I've been waiting. That's what I need ... to play in games."

Shortstop Felipe Lopez gets Wednesday off with Rich Aurilia filling in, although it, too, is not written in see-ment.

Switch at the top

The flip-flop had more to do with matching up against pitchers than it did the fact that Ryan Freel and Felipe Lopez entered Monday's game a combined 0 for 33.

Narron switched leadoff hitter Freel, a right-hander, to second in the order and moved Lopez from second to leadoff.

"When Lopez is in the two-hole and we have (left-handers) Ken Griffey Jr., Adam Dunn and Sean Casey all lined up, it gives the opposing manager a chance to bring in a left-handed relief pitcher with Lopez batting," Narron said. "This way we might get one more at-bat against a right-hander or Freel might get an at-bat against a left-hander.

"And maybe this will stir them up a little bit, considering the last couple of days they haven't done a lot," Narron added.

Old-school Coffey

Todd Coffey is 24, but wants to be an old-school throw-back type player, "Which is why I listen to everything veterans Kent Mercker and David Weathers tell me and everything they say in the bullpen," he said.

"When I was a kid I used to go to old Atlanta/Fulton County Stadium in the early 90s when Mercker was pitching for the Braves," Coffey said.

Coffey is from Forest City, a one-horse town in North Carolina and Mercker told him, "You were drafted by the Reds in the 41st round, but they wanted to draft you in the first round but your folks didn't have a telephone and couldn't get hold of you."

http://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/content/sports/reds/daily/0809redsnotes.html

Walkerforpres
08-09-2005, 02:34 AM
"My agent told me there were a couple of teams interested in me (Washington, Chicago Cubs), but the Reds wouldn't do it," Pena said. "I would like them to tell me what's going on. They don't tell me anything.

I hate this situation, and it seems like many others on the Reds (Dunn, Kearns, Griffey, LaRue, Aurilia) have been involved in the same types of situations where management seems to think everything is a big secret as to not piss someone off by actually letting them know what's going on. Honesty (say, to someone like Aurilia: "Rich, we appreicate what you're doing for the club, and you're doing a decent job of it, but we didn't sign you to be a full-time player, and you're not going to be a full-time player unless circumstances arise which make it necessary for you to be that type of player.") isn't going to make anyone any happier than they are now, but it sure would help with the whole CIA-style atmosphere that seems to surround the Reds right now.

And here we spend all our time begging the FO to sign Dunn/Pena/Lopez to LTCs. It's never going to even materialize with these feelings going around the clubhouse. Wily Mo ought to know that it's a crowded situation and that he'll most likely get his shot next year once Dunn or Griffey is traded in the off-season, but he's not happy. No one's happy. And no one has a damn clue what the management's plan happens to be.

That worries me.

MrCinatit
08-09-2005, 02:47 AM
if there is a guy who classicaly has not gotten a chance to prove himself in the long run, it is Wily Mo. guy spends the first two and a half years of his career riding the pine. he gets a half-year chance because of injuries, puts up some rather impressive power numbers...and is shown the bench once again.
i keep telling people, if the guy is given a solid chance, he could turn into one of the greats.
well, it would be nice if his fielding was better.

Nugget
08-09-2005, 03:28 AM
I don't see what the big deal is about not being told what is happening on the trade front. The first thing is these guys are paid to play baseball, that means being on the bench if that is what the manager has in mind. Secondly, they now there will be no contract talk until the end of the season - that's it.

According to Rich, that was exactly what he was told and he was not happy about not being a full-time player.

Junior has the right attitude - when he was asked about being traded, he said he was here to play baseball, if and when he is asked about being traded that's when he will think about it.

Cedric
08-09-2005, 03:39 AM
Junior is obviously playing every day no matter if he's traded or not, of course he cares less than Rich, Wily Mo, or Austin.

KronoRed
08-09-2005, 03:48 AM
This sounds remarkably like what Kearns said, is everyone gonna jump on Pena here like they jumped on Kearns?

Ron Madden
08-09-2005, 03:58 AM
I can't blame any of these young guys for wanting more playing time.

Then again I can't blame Dan O'Brien for holding on to them rather than trading them away for little or no return.

Cedric
08-09-2005, 04:09 AM
This sounds remarkably like what Kearns said, is everyone gonna jump on Pena here like they jumped on Kearns?

If Pena was hitting .225 with 2 homers they probably would. Also Kearns like it or not had the lack of work ethic rep.

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2005, 04:26 AM
Kearns deserves to start right now. He's hitting .280/.315/.520 since returning from Louisville on July 20. Seven extra-base hits in 50 atbats and three walks and eight strikeouts. The three walks aren't great but over the last few days he has flashed solid plate discipline(3 walks in last 19 atbats).

Pena, on the other hand, is hitting just .204/.264/.306 since the break, with only three XBH in 49 atbats. And I haven't even mentioned how well Kearns has played in the field. I've seen him make some plays over the last few days that Wily Mo couldn't dream of making(the catch near the wall in right field tonight, for example).

Don't get me wrong...I am a Wily Mo fan, but right now, in my opinion, the most deserving guys are starting in the outfield.

Casey_21
08-09-2005, 05:51 AM
If Pena was hitting .225 with 2 homers they probably would. Also Kearns like it or not had the lack of work ethic rep.

He's hitting less then that now since Break.... guess that don't matter. I find it amaizing that when some people run their mouth, nothing is said. I can garontee if that was Rich, (Who's #'s prove even HE is more deserving to play) he would have got bashed till the weeks end. I really don't understand the fascination with Mr. Clumsey Mo... I didn't mind what he said in the article either... I just can't stand him. To be honest, I was quite surprised anyone else would want him. I say if he don't mind being traded then by all means, DO IT!! PLEASE!! Even if he DID mind, do it... before Chi and the Nats find him out!!
_____________________________________

:casey: 'Hey... what's wrong, Buddy?'

:pena: Sob.. 'They found out me can only hit Fastball'

:casey: 'Oh dear... Well what are you going to do?'

:pena: getting mad.. 'Refuse to swing untill me get one'

:casey: 'That's kind of risky, aint it? Oh well, I say go for it!! Heck, you may even get walked a few times'

:pena: 'Wow... Yeah.. Me didn't think about that. Thanks Sean'

:casey: 'Ahh, don't mention it. I mean what are friends for? Now come here, let's give us a hug..'

buckeyenut
08-09-2005, 07:40 AM
He's hitting less then that now since Break.... guess that don't matter. I find it amaizing that when some people run their mouth, nothing is said. I can garontee if that was Rich, (Who's #'s prove even HE is more deserving to play) he would have got bashed till the weeks end. I really don't understand the fascination with Mr. Clumsey Mo... I didn't mind what he said in the article either... I just can't stand him. To be honest, I was quite surprised anyone else would want him. I say if he don't mind being traded then by all means, DO IT!! PLEASE!! Even if he DID mind, do it... before Chi and the Nats find him out!!
_____________________________________

Thing is, I didn't take that as him running his mouth. Reporter asked him about situation. He said he would rather be playing. Says 4 OF situation is difficult on everyone and he hopes they don't have to go through it again next year. Sounds like a reporter asking questions and he answered honestly. Doesn't sound like him going and causing trouble.

It is tough to break out of a slump from the bench. And Dunner and Jr have been so hot that he isn't getting the normal lefty starts to spell them, either.

This situation should have been resolved before the deadline, the minute NYM said they had any interest in Sean Casey. But hopefully, Sean has a powerful second half of the year and NYM will take him on in the offseason.

Caseyfan21
08-09-2005, 09:15 AM
I think a lot of this is perception. If a writer, such as Hal McCoy, likes a player they will take their quotes and twist them more favorably. Notice how the first sentence of the article sets this up peacefully and makes it look like Wily Mo is quiet and classy. It could be true or it might not be, we don't know. Writers always can add in some fluff around quotes to make a player look better or worse. Do the writers do that? Obviously, to some degree yes, but I don't think many here could ever pinpoint it.

I'm not trying to bash the writers or say players are different than how they are written, I'm just saying how a writer portrays a player can have a lot to do with whether or not we choose to bash them.

Imagine the article had gone like this:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
CHICAGO | Wily Mo Pena gets more and more frustrated everyday. Because of Austin Kearn’s emergence as the starting right fielder, Wily Mo has taken to the bench and he is simmering that he doesn’t get the chance to start.

"My agent told me there were a couple of teams interested in me (Washington, Chicago Cubs), but the Reds wouldn't do it," Pena said. "I would like them to tell me what's going on. They don't tell me anything.

"I know Kearns could start for another team and I could start for another team. This situation is not good for me. I want to play every day and it is tough to play every day in this situation.

"It's tough to play one day and not play the next, tough to get comfortable. I was 1 for 3 (Sunday) and feeling good, now I'm not in (Monday's) lineup.

"I have to wait and see because there is nothing I can do about it," said the 6-foot-3, 245-pounder who is hitting .263 with 14 homers and 35 RBIs in 213 at-bats.

"I don't feel good about this and next year we can't have four guys who can all play and start in the outfield, and I know they have to play Ken Griffey Jr. I don't want this (situation) next year. I hope something is done."

Jerry Narron defended Wily Mo and praised his aggresiveness to get into the game after hearing of his quotes. "I wouldn't want players who are happy if they aren't playing."

What will happen out of Cincinnati?

Stay Tuned.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

See, same quotes, different tone, Redszone bashes away at Wily Mo for his selfishness and moody appearence. (Obviously no writer would ever write like this though, I exaggerated for the purpose of making my point.)

Quotes can be manipulated however the writer wants, read several writer's takes on a situation before forming a strong opinion one way or the other.

Garrett
08-09-2005, 09:33 AM
Baseball is the true evolutionary jungle. You rise to the top based solely on ability. Not much sentiment, not many favors for old times sake. Either one of these guys would be starting every day if they had shown dominance. Neither one did.Both had ample opportunity to prove themselves while the other was sitting.
So they mouth off to the beat writers when they're unhappy. Or, in Kearns case, he sat his fat kiester at home for 5 days sulking when he was sent down. And he mouthed off a little to the press as well.
But nothing beats dominance, and neither one can quite "win" right field.

deltachi8
08-09-2005, 10:27 AM
Its simple...Trade Casey. End of problem.

OK, I know, you need a dancing partner...just sayin....

traderumor
08-09-2005, 10:39 AM
"My agent told me there were a couple of teams interested in me (Washington, Chicago Cubs), but the Reds wouldn't do it," Pena said. "I would like them to tell me what's going on. They don't tell me anything.While I respect that any ballplayer should have his role defined, I think it is a bit much to ask for a young player to expect communications regarding his name coming up in trade discussions. And I see more and more posturing by agents who tell their client that certain teams are interested in them. Apart from the possibility that it is pure speculation on the part of these agents, or scuttlebutt from the media or peers, if agents are hearing from other teams in a "can you do anything to help us get this deal done" context, wouldn't that be considered tampering? It would probably be hard to prove, but I'm guessing it goes on in a wink, wink sort of way. And if so, that needs to be addressed by MLB.

markymark69
08-09-2005, 10:43 AM
I don't see what the big deal is about not being told what is happening on the trade front. The first thing is these guys are paid to play baseball, that means being on the bench if that is what the manager has in mind. Secondly, they now there will be no contract talk until the end of the season - that's it.

According to Rich, that was exactly what he was told and he was not happy about not being a full-time player.

Junior has the right attitude - when he was asked about being traded, he said he was here to play baseball, if and when he is asked about being traded that's when he will think about it.

I agree with you, Nugget. When we put you in the line-up do your job, when we don't do your job again.

Although, I do think something will be done about the four outfielder situation in the off-season. I hope that Casey is traded, which solves the problem, but unfortunately that is wishful thinking.

REDREAD
08-09-2005, 11:06 AM
This sounds remarkably like what Kearns said, is everyone gonna jump on Pena here like they jumped on Kearns?

Or jump on Pena like they did when Aurillia aired his concerns about playing time to the press?

This kind of blows a whole in the whole theory that Kearns was sent down to get playing time because the team had 4 OFs (especially since it appears the Reds didn't even try to trade one of them). More incompetence shown from the FO with their "status quo" BS.

traderumor
08-09-2005, 11:35 AM
Or jump on Pena like they did when Aurillia aired his concerns about playing time to the press?

This kind of blows a whole in the whole theory that Kearns was sent down to get playing time because the team had 4 OFs (especially since it appears the Reds didn't even try to trade one of them). More incompetence shown from the FO with their "status quo" BS.Because Wily Mo didn't say he was "stuck" with the Reds? Tact goes a long way. And if Grande, Welsh and Narron can't think of anything better to say than "we want guys who want to play," then just shut up about it. Totally misses the point.

westofyou
08-09-2005, 12:20 PM
Or jump on Pena like they did when Aurillia aired his concerns about playing time to the press?

This kind of blows a whole in the whole theory that Kearns was sent down to get playing time because the team had 4 OFs (especially since it appears the Reds didn't even try to trade one of them). More incompetence shown from the FO with their "status quo" BS.

Kearns was sent down to lose some weight, and to teach him that his diapers smell too.


"I would like them to tell me what's going on. They don't tell me anything.

Welcome to baseball.

REDREAD
08-09-2005, 01:22 PM
Because Wily Mo didn't say he was "stuck" with the Reds? .

Aurilla said that because he was a logical choice to be traded. Just as Randa was.

He has a right to be pissed if the Reds won't trade him or start him.
Rich knows he's not part of the future here, so why didn't DanO do him a favor and trade him for whatever he could?

And the writers went to Aurillia the day after the deadline and asked him if he was disappointed about not being traded? What was he supposed to say ? "Thank God I wasn't traded. I just love sitting on the bench on a last place team, despite the fact that I am producing?"

REDREAD
08-09-2005, 01:26 PM
Kearns was sent down to lose some weight, and to teach him that his diapers smell too..

It's not like Kearns is the only one on the Reds that could lose a little weight.

I agree with what Dunn said, Kearns' demotion was largely because DanO wanted to "Break him" and then remold him. It was a can't lose situation for DanO. If Kearns produces when he came back from AAA, DanO can say it worked. If Kearns tanked when he came back up, DanO can use that as proof that Kearns isn't that great and send him down again.

I think Kearns would've worked his way out of the slump in the majors, just as easily. I really don't think the 10 lbs Kearns lost (and he could've done that at the majors too) was the difference maker.

westofyou
08-09-2005, 01:30 PM
He has a right to be pissed if the Reds won't trade him or start him.
Rich knows he's not part of the future here, so why didn't DanO do him a favor and trade him for whatever he could?

Rich Aurlia is a servicable sub at this point, streaky and mostly living on his baseball acumen currently. He's not an impact player on the crummy Reds what makes him one on a winning team? The Twins didn't kick his tires and they have an infield that is fraught with problems.

The market for RA is not much because he has warts and now an attitude.

Mike Lansing ending fast approaching perhaps?

traderumor
08-09-2005, 01:30 PM
Aurilla said that because he was a logical choice to be traded. Just as Randa was.

He has a right to be pissed if the Reds won't trade him or start him.
Rich knows he's not part of the future here, so why didn't DanO do him a favor and trade him for whatever he could?

And the writers went to Aurillia the day after the deadline and asked him if he was disappointed about not being traded? What was he supposed to say ? "Thank God I wasn't traded. I just love sitting on the bench on a last place team, despite the fact that I am producing?"Defending the indefensible :evil:

Big Klu
08-09-2005, 01:34 PM
:casey: 'Hey... what's wrong, Buddy?'

:pena: Sob.. 'They found out me can only hit Fastball'

:casey: 'Oh dear... Well what are you going to do?'

:pena: getting mad.. 'Refuse to swing untill me get one'

:casey: 'That's kind of risky, aint it? Oh well, I say go for it!! Heck, you may even get walked a few times'

:pena: 'Wow... Yeah.. Me didn't think about that. Thanks Sean'

:casey: 'Ahh, don't mention it. I mean what are friends for? Now come here, let's give us a hug..'

What's with the "Incredible Hulk" speech patterns? Is that a slam on Wily Mo's supposed lack of intelligence?! Just because he doesn't have a good grasp of the English language doesn't mean he's stupid, you know!

This is one of the lowest, most degrading coments I have ever seen on RedsZone! :angry:

westofyou
08-09-2005, 01:35 PM
I think Kearns would've worked his way out of the slump in the majors, just as easily. I really don't think the 10 lbs Kearns lost (and he could've done that at the majors too) was the difference maker.

It came with sweat generated after bus rides and poor food and worse hotels, motivation is a good tool and if you have the abilty to wield it to obtain a favorable result than by all means do it.

Kearns looks thinner and seems to be playing harder, he has more pop in his bat since he came back and because his feelings were hurt in a year that he gets 900 K I'm suppose to feel sorry for him for being sent down?

No way, he needed a wake up and got it, it's as much a part of the game as the 108 stiches on the ball.

REDREAD
08-09-2005, 01:45 PM
Rich Aurlia is a servicable sub at this point, streaky and mostly living on his baseball acumen currently. He's not an impact player on the crummy Reds what makes him one on a winning team? The Twins didn't kick his tires and they have an infield that is fraught with problems.


Rich is OPSing 759 and can play SS, 2b, and 3b for 500k
Why don't you post one of your famous spreadsheets and show where Rich stacks up statistically against the other MI in baseball?

Sure, he's not an impact player. Not many middle infielders are impact players.
But he doesn't have to be a Tejada to be valuable. For 500k, there were likely teams interested in him. Just not interested enough to meet DanO's demand. That's my point. DanO should've lowered his price for Aurillia if he didn't plan on playing him much. Not trading Aurillia was as dumb as if they didn't trade Randa.



The market for RA is not much because he has warts and now an attitude.
Mike Lansing ending fast approaching perhaps?

He's only percieved as having an attitude on RedsZone. Maybe he won't repeat this level of performance next season, but he will get a lot more interest in this offseason. That will be the proof that Rich could've been moved at the deadline.

IMO, he doesn't have an attitude. He wants to play. If not on the Reds, he wants to play somewhere. So many people on this board hated him from the day he was signed, that they see every quote he makes as evidence of being a cancer.

CTA513
08-09-2005, 01:45 PM
4 starters for 3 spots... everyone knew this would happen and the Reds probably never even thought of trying to fix it.

KronoRed
08-09-2005, 01:49 PM
Can we send Pena down?

Renegotiate his contract?

:evil:

Sorry someone was going to say it eventually

REDREAD
08-09-2005, 01:49 PM
Kearns looks thinner and seems to be playing harder, he has more pop in his bat since he came back and because his feelings were hurt in a year that he gets 900 K I'm suppose to feel sorry for him for being sent down?.

Nope, I'm just saying there was potentially better ways of achieving the same result. So Kearns is producing now. That's great. But they've poisoned the relationship with him. Don't think he won't remember this in arbitration. He may not get the Reds this year, but he will. I would think they'd want to work with a guy they consider part of the "future" and try to keep him happy. I'm not saying they should bow down and worship Kearns.

Reitsma couldn't wait to get out of here. I imagine a lot of the other young players feel the same way. We just won't know until they leave and we get to read about how their new clubs are so much better.

REDREAD
08-09-2005, 01:51 PM
4 starters for 3 spots... everyone knew this would happen and the Reds probably never even thought of trying to fix it.

It's status quo, Man. DanO worked really hard on the Randa trade. He's done his one trade this year, what more do you want from him? :laugh:

westofyou
08-09-2005, 01:59 PM
Why don't you post one of your famous spreadsheets and show where Rich stacks up statistically against the other MI in baseball?

Only if you ask in a more sarcastic and snotty way.

Blimpie
08-09-2005, 02:12 PM
He's only percieved as having an attitude on RedsZone. Maybe he won't repeat this level of performance next season, but he will get a lot more interest in this offseason. That will be the proof that Rich could've been moved at the deadline.

IMO, he doesn't have an attitude. He wants to play. If not on the Reds, he wants to play somewhere. So many people on this board hated him from the day he was signed, that they see every quote he makes as evidence of being a cancer.I wouldn't be so sure about that one. All conjecture aside, just read things that are direct quotes from the man. Having confidence is one thing, but openly lobbying for a trade to the Dodgers while your team is facing them is pure and simple bush league.

MWM
08-09-2005, 02:34 PM
RR, it's horrible business to make trades as personal favors to players. It's bad business to give up a player for nothing at all, which is what you're suggesting the Reds should have done. No one would have given up anything of value at all. Sometimes it's better not to trade a guy like that so that other teams don't think you'll do it again in the future.

Redsland
08-09-2005, 02:57 PM
Weird. I was just thinking last night how refreshing it was to have Wily Mo riding the pine and not grousing about it like others do.

Then the next morning I read this.

"They don't tell me anything"? What is there to tell you? Play when you're in the lineup, prepare to play when you're not. And take some damn fungoes.

traderumor
08-09-2005, 03:01 PM
"They don't tell me anything"? What is there to tell you? Play when you're in the lineup, prepare to play when you're not. And take some damn fungoes.

Ok, when the game was still close, who pictured the butcher job that WMP would have done on Burnitz' fly ball to the wall that Kearns made the fine catch on? :laugh:

Blimpie
08-09-2005, 03:05 PM
Ok, when the game was still close, who pictured the butcher job that WMP would have done on Burnitz' fly ball to the wall that Kearns made the fine catch on? :laugh:Guilty as charged.

TeamBoone
08-09-2005, 08:08 PM
Or, in Kearns case, he sat his fat kiester at home for 5 days sulking when he was sent down. And he mouthed off a little to the press as well.

Perhaps you should check your facts before spouting things that are untrue. His father had heart surgery the day he was demoted or maybe it was the day after, I'm not sure... anyway, he was at the hospital with his Dad.

TeamBoone
08-09-2005, 08:16 PM
I really don't understand the fascination with Mr. Clumsey Mo... I didn't mind what he said in the article either... I just can't stand him. To be honest, I was quite surprised anyone else would want him. I say if he don't mind being traded then by all means, DO IT!! PLEASE!! Even if he DID mind, do it... before Chi and the Nats find him out!!


Wow! This is really harsh.

Could you share the reason you detest him so much?

BTW, I agree with the person who thinks your "joking" monolog between WMP and SC is tasteless. I've talked with WMP at Reds Fest and ST in Sarasota... his English is very good, he just talks too fast so he's sometimes difficult to understand.

That said, even if he did NOT, there would still be no reason to poke fun at his speech, thereby demeaning the man.

Falls City Beer
08-09-2005, 10:25 PM
This proves I was right all along. I said the worm would turn with Wily Mo.

I was right.

I said you'd still have, at season's end, two ticked off outfielders...and still only 3 spots.

I was right.

We still have no pitching and acquired no immediate pitching help at the deadline.

I was right.

Now, I'm sure I'll hear all about how there was a "trade freeze," so Kearns or Pena weren't getting traded. And that's when I say--yeah, but they knew they had four outfielders in January.

I am right.

(And I'm modest about it.)

Lee May
08-09-2005, 10:43 PM
A. If Wily was hitting like last year he wouldn't be riding the pines . At this point his defense is suspect and his strong trait, hitting, is far less than it was last year. Shut up Wily and get better. The coach wants you to play - if you are more productive than what is already there. He's not so he needs to get better and in the meantime keep his thoughts to himself.

B. These are well paid entertainers - they do not run the business end of it. If Wily worked for a corporation and made such demands he would be shown the door with no pay.
I was a Wily fan and an Austin fan but these comments turn me off and I believe make the players come off as ego centric whiney-assed babies. Get a real freakin' job boys that actually have some pressures.
Austin + Wily = wusses

Falls City Beer
08-09-2005, 10:47 PM
Austin + Wily = wusses

Give me a freakin' break. Austin + Wily = two major league outfielders who should be playing not jerked around in a net of incompetence, lies, and filth known as the Cincinnati Reds.

I KNEW this response would come up. And I cry foul, foul, foul, foul. Major Leaguers need to play Major League Baseball. Period.

They don't need to "SHUT UP" and "QUIT WHINING" unless they suck and show no potential.

Lee May
08-09-2005, 10:56 PM
You think Wily deserves to start for what reason? He hasn't been productive as Dunn, Griffey, or even Kerns as of late. Wily nor Austin manages this team or own it. They are paid to do a job. If they can't do it or don't like it , retire and join the rest of the normal work force.
Do you even have a job? If you do, go in and raise hell with your boss, tomorrow, that you aren't getting enough attention. Produce or shut up is the right battle cry - unless your a Reds outfielder, eleven year old girl or Falls City Beer.

Falls City Beer
08-09-2005, 11:02 PM
You think Wily deserves to start for what reason? He hasn't been productive as Dunn, Griffey, or even Kerns as of late. Wily nor Austin manages this team or own it. They are paid to do a job. If they can't do it or don't like it , retire and join the rest of the normal work force.
Do you even have a job? If you do, go in and raise hell with your boss, tomorrow, that you aren't getting enough attention. Produce or shut up is the right battle cry - unless your a Reds outfielder, eleven year old girl or Falls City Beer.

DanO? Is that you?

(Get tuff).

Lee May
08-09-2005, 11:14 PM
You still haven't backed up your arguement. Why do you fell Wily deserves all this power and attention?

Falls City Beer
08-10-2005, 12:24 AM
You still haven't backed up your arguement. Why do you fell Wily deserves all this power and attention?

For one--just being objective: .820 OPS Pena

Kearns: .735 OPS

But perhaps asking you to subtract is too much.

Truthfully, I think both Kearns and Pena are riding the great baseball crap-sleigh to baseball purgatory--but for now, they need to be playing MLB somewhere, anywhere--and the Reds should have netted a nice arm for one of them, like, yesterday.

reds44
08-10-2005, 01:34 AM
Heres an idea Pena, learn how to hit a slider, then come complain about not playing everyday. Kearns is an 100% better fielder then you and is not that much worse of a hitter. Just because you can hit a ball 900 feet doesnt mean you should play everyday.

M2
08-10-2005, 02:30 AM
A. If Wily was hitting like last year he wouldn't be riding the pines.

He's hitting almost exactly like he did last season.

2004 - .259/.316/.527
2005 - .263/.305/.512

Ron Madden
08-10-2005, 04:58 AM
Aurilla said that because he was a logical choice to be traded. Just as Randa was.

He has a right to be pissed if the Reds won't trade him or start him.
Rich knows he's not part of the future here, so why didn't DanO do him a favor and trade him for whatever he could?

And the writers went to Aurillia the day after the deadline and asked him if he was disappointed about not being traded? What was he supposed to say ? "Thank God I wasn't traded. I just love sitting on the bench on a last place team, despite the fact that I am producing?"

This is just my opinion...Rich Aurilia and the Cincinnati Reds are bound to the contract signed by the both of them. The Reds are paying Rich Aurilia every penny agreed upon in that contract.

RA can not honestly say he hasn't been given every chance to play and prove his value to other clubs who may have interest in him.

If any club needs him they will give us something in return.
If they don't want to give us anything for him.. what the heck we can pay him the rest of the season. ;)

Ron Madden
08-10-2005, 05:22 AM
This proves I was right all along. I said the worm would turn with Wily Mo.

I was right.

I said you'd still have, at season's end, two ticked off outfielders...and still only 3 spots.

I was right.

We still have no pitching and acquired no immediate pitching help at the deadline.

I was right.

Now, I'm sure I'll hear all about how there was a "trade freeze," so Kearns or Pena weren't getting traded. And that's when I say--yeah, but they knew they had four outfielders in January.

I am right.

(And I'm modest about it.)

Just wondering FCB,

Would you be by any chance related to a very modest ex Marine by the name of Dennyred-1 -2 -3 -4 or 5 from Tenn. and the Reds.Com board? ;)

redsfanmia
08-10-2005, 08:41 AM
Wily Mo has a right to be upset. Obie dropped the ball by not trading one of the outfielders I think we all know it. Obie is afraid to trade Kearns or Pena and that is why he should be gone. How can you have a man so indecisive running the organization? I sometimes wonder if Obie can even order breakfast before noon or if he evaluates the choices all morning then just orders lunch instead?

REDREAD
08-10-2005, 09:54 AM
This proves I was right all along. I said the worm would turn with Wily Mo.

I was right.

I said you'd still have, at season's end, two ticked off outfielders...and still only 3 spots.

I was right.

We still have no pitching and acquired no immediate pitching help at the deadline.

I was right.

Now, I'm sure I'll hear all about how there was a "trade freeze," so Kearns or Pena weren't getting traded. And that's when I say--yeah, but they knew they had four outfielders in January.

I am right.

(And I'm modest about it.)

I agree wholeheartedly. And I don't believe for a second that Carl has "frozen" DanO from trading Pena or Kearns. Carl probably doesn't even know who they are. This whole "freezing" thing smells of just another excuse for inaction on DanO's part. Another reason why it's "status quo".

So we have another year of both Kearns and Pena being disgruntled. Also, we've wasted their last non arbitration years.

REDREAD
08-10-2005, 09:57 AM
Only if you ask in a more sarcastic and snotty way.

It wasn't meant like that. But I can see why you took it that way. I should've worded it more carefully. I apologize, the tone was intented to be more light than it came through. I said "famous" because you are good at pulling up every stat combo imaginable.

But I imagine the stats would show that Rich produces pretty well compared to his peers.

REDREAD
08-10-2005, 09:59 AM
I wouldn't be so sure about that one. All conjecture aside, just read things that are direct quotes from the man. Having confidence is one thing, but openly lobbying for a trade to the Dodgers while your team is facing them is pure and simple bush league.

IIRC, someone asked him if he'd be interested in being traded to LA, and he said "Yeah, I think I could help them win".. Again, he was in a no win situation. If he said "No, I'd rather stay in Cincy", people would complain about how he's being difficult on purpose to make it more difficult to trade him, or they'd complain that Rich wants to stay here and take time away from other players.

Tell me, what would you have liked to hear Rich say when someone asked him if he'd be interested in being traded to LA?

deltachi8
08-10-2005, 10:02 AM
Heres an idea Pena, learn how to hit a slider, then come complain about not playing everyday. Kearns is an 100% better fielder then you and is not that much worse of a hitter. Just because you can hit a ball 900 feet doesnt mean you should play everyday.

When your 22, can hit the ball 900 feet, have shown an ability to learn to play the game at the ML level (instead of the minors where he needed to be) and have a terrific work ethic, you should be playing every day.

Don't blame Pena for being unhappy, or Kearns really (although I belive the AAA safari for him was what he needed), blame the Reds for knowing to have a potential problem for the past year + and not acting upon it.

Just my $0.02, but if the Reds can't move Casey this offseason (or Hopefully in th enext couple weeks), I belive Kerns is the one dealt.

REDREAD
08-10-2005, 10:04 AM
RR, it's horrible business to make trades as personal favors to players. It's bad business to give up a player for nothing at all, which is what you're suggesting the Reds should have done. No one would have given up anything of value at all. Sometimes it's better not to trade a guy like that so that other teams don't think you'll do it again in the future.

I do agree with that reasoning about not giving away anyone.
But if he has no trade value as some say, doesn't that mean he's worth nothing?

I guess I think people can't have it both ways.

Either Rich is useless and a headache.. then he should've been dealt.
OR Rich is contributing, so people shouldn't complain he's getting playing time.

Maybe you think Rich is contributing. I do, and I don't mind him getting playing time at all. His OPS this year is on par with Freel's career OPS. Freel's OPS is slightly better than Rich's this year, but not significantly. Considering that Freel is 29, he's not exactly "youth" either.

I guess I feel that if the Reds truly believed Aurillia was a headache, this is one time when they should've settled for scraps. But I imagine the Reds' perception of Aurillia is different from this board's perception (which was pretty much preconcieved before he played a single game).

TeamCasey
08-10-2005, 10:39 AM
Speaking of a trade freeze, has anything progressed on the sale of the Red's while I was away?

I agree with WOY on Kearns. It sounds like the inmates run the asylum in our clubhouse, at times. Perhaps he did need a wake-up call. None of us know the situation intimately enough though. I don't agree with coddling young players for fear of their reaction at arbitration. The Red's would have the same ammo in saying that Austin was out of shape. Arbitration is all about their agents anyway.

I missed Rich Aurilia's comments, but it's hard to knock any of these guys for the desire to play.

M2
08-10-2005, 10:49 AM
Aurilia's now in the role he should be in, utility IF. Play him everyday and you expose his rather extensive weaknesses.

REDREAD
08-10-2005, 12:44 PM
and the Reds should have netted a nice arm for one of them, like, yesterday.

Yes, Kearns for Cliff Lee (which was reportedly offered in spring training) looks real good about now. Would've saved a ton of headaches as well.

The Indians gave the Reds a choice of 2 of their other young starters instead of Lee as well. I can't remember the other two names, but even if DanO picked the wrong one, it would've still been a good thinking process.

Instead, the Reds seem content to let Pena and Kearns get disgruntled and play them part time until they get too expensive.

Blimpie
08-10-2005, 12:59 PM
IIRC, someone asked him if he'd be interested in being traded to LA, and he said "Yeah, I think I could help them win".. Again, he was in a no win situation. If he said "No, I'd rather stay in Cincy", people would complain about how he's being difficult on purpose to make it more difficult to trade him, or they'd complain that Rich wants to stay here and take time away from other players.Honestly, I don't recall the incident as Rich simply responding to a reporter's question. While it may have started that way, Rich took it from there and ran with it. I remember him approaching nearly every form of media over a two day period mentioning how his attributes--in all of their glory--were tailor made for the Dodgers. Apparently, he was closely scanning the transaction wires as well. He even commented something to the effect, "See, XXX got traded to XXX...so why couldn't that have been me?" I also heard that the team was considering issuing him a fine for his comments. If so, does it still sound like I am exaggerating his behavior?


Tell me, what would you have liked to hear Rich say when someone asked him if he'd be interested in being traded to LA?Oh, I dunno. He could've gone the way of Crash Davis (or even Junior) and dropped the boilerplate response on us:
"I have no control over the situation. That's between the FO and my agent. I just have to keep concentrate on playing ball...."

REDREAD
08-10-2005, 01:15 PM
Oh, I dunno. He could've gone the way of Crash Davis (or even Junior) and dropped the boilerplate response on us:
"I have no control over the situation. That's between the FO and my agent. I just have to keep concentrate on playing ball...."

I just remember Rich getting fried for saying "I guess I'm stuck here", after talking about how it would've been nice to be traded.

Really, I'd rather hear honesty from the ballplayers than generic boilerplate stuff. If every ballplayer talked like that, what would be the point of even interviewing them.

I just don't get this notion that ballplayers for some reason have to completely tow the line and never say a disparging word. They're human too. I appreciate him expressing his honest opinion as opposed to DanO speak.

It would've been nice for DanO to trade him. I expressed that earlier, but I can see the point others had about how he's bound to that contract, and apparently DanO thought he was worth more than other clubs did. Just would've been a nice gesture to reward him by trading him (if the Reds had no real intentions of playing him). Just like it would've been nice of the Reds to somehow give Jimmeniz away, instead of making him rot in AA. (Right now, it's a lose-lose situation for both the Reds and Jimmeniz). Nice little goodwill things like that can potentially change how players percieve this club and might lead to better FA signings in the future.

Blimpie
08-10-2005, 01:46 PM
Really, I'd rather hear honesty from the ballplayers than generic boilerplate stuff. If every ballplayer talked like that, what would be the point of even interviewing them.For the most part, I agree. But if I could just remind Rich of a few things before he next approaches a microphone....

1) LOYALTY: Your phone wasn't exactly ringing off the hook when you were picked up off the scrap heap by the Reds during the winter. How about taking a page from Joe Randa, who actually appreciated his limited time spent in a cancer free clubhouse.

2) REALITY: You are not A-Rod, or even FeLo, for that matter. While, there is a time and place for most everything, it's never a good time to strong-arm a trade from your team when there is virtually no demand for your services.

3) HUMILITY: Learn to pick your battles. You don't always have to become a sideshow act when the focus of the story should be on the team. Everytime a major team move is made (mangerial changes, DFA's, etc...), you don't always have to rush to the center of the room in an attempt to become the focus once again.

RFS62
08-10-2005, 02:05 PM
I can think of about 600,000 good reasons for Rich to shut his pie hole and be ready to play every day, wherever he has the good fortune to be penciled in. And if he's on the bench, be ready to go in anytime he's called on.

It's called being a professional.

Falls City Beer
08-10-2005, 06:43 PM
The Reds are that guy who trips over the very same wrinkle in the pavement every day of his life and who turns to glare at the familiar spot as if seeing it for the first time every time.