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Reds Fanatic
08-09-2005, 02:14 PM
Starting Lineups
No. Cincinnati Chicago Cubs
1 Felipe Lopez, SS Matt Lawton, LF
2 Jason LaRue, C Todd Walker, 2B
3 Ken Griffey Jr., CF Derrek Lee, 1B
4 Adam Dunn, LF Aramis Ramirez, 3B
5 Sean Casey, 1B Jeromy Burnitz, RF
6 Austin Kearns, RF Nomar Garciaparra, SS
7 Edwin Encarnacion, 3B Corey Patterson, CF
8 Ray Olmedo,2B Henry Blanco, C
9 Aaron Harang,P Mark Prior, P

REDREAD
08-09-2005, 02:17 PM
when does the game start?

Reds Fanatic
08-09-2005, 02:17 PM
2:20 start time

KronoRed
08-09-2005, 02:18 PM
LaRue?!

I'd prefer Austin there to get some good pitches with JR and Dunn behind him.

CTA513
08-09-2005, 02:22 PM
The only reason I see Larue batting second is if he owns prior.

PickOff
08-09-2005, 02:22 PM
Larue number two.

vs Prior (Career) ab 16 h 6 hr 0 obp .688 slug .444 avg .375

Question is, will he try to get plunked during his first at bat or wait till later in the game.

;)

RedsIn07
08-09-2005, 02:22 PM
LaRue batting 2nd? What's going on?! :runaway:

Garrett
08-09-2005, 02:22 PM
Yeah, but Jr. will definitely see some good pitches in front of Dunn!

KronoRed
08-09-2005, 02:24 PM
At least we have Ray over Rich :)

BRM
08-09-2005, 02:24 PM
LaRue?!

I'd prefer Austin there to get some good pitches with JR and Dunn behind him.

I agree.

PickOff
08-09-2005, 02:25 PM
LaRue batting 2nd? What's going on?! :runaway:

Career vs Prior. See above.

danforsman
08-09-2005, 02:26 PM
LaRue is 6/16 lifetime with 5 doubles v. Prior. Must be what Narron's looking at.

Other notables:
Lopez - 2/10 w/ 4k
Junior - 2/8 w/ 1 2b, 2k
Dunn - 4/17 w/ 3 2b, 9k
Casey - 4/22 w/ 2k
Kearns - 3/12 w/ 2 HR, 5k
Olmedo - 0/2

---That said, nice to see Casey ahead of Kearns in the order, eh?

oneupper
08-09-2005, 02:26 PM
I think Miley did this (LaRue 2nd), last year against Cleveland and everyone was all over him about it.

REDREAD
08-09-2005, 02:26 PM
The only reason I see Larue batting second is if he owns prior.

According to Marty last night, that was Narron's reasoning.

RedsIn07
08-09-2005, 02:29 PM
No game on FSN Ohio but the game is on WGN for those who get it.

cumberlandreds
08-09-2005, 02:31 PM
LaRue seems OK to me to bat 2nd today. No one else in the lineup I would prefer batting 2nd. I'll put my stamp of approval on this lineup, for today anyway.

REDREAD
08-09-2005, 02:34 PM
LaRue seems OK to me to bat 2nd today. No one else in the lineup I would prefer batting 2nd. I'll put my stamp of approval on this lineup, for today anyway.

If they're trying to win, they should have Aurillia in instead of Olmedo.

But I guess the FO still thinks Olmedo might be able to be something. IMO, he's a marginal utility guy at best. I guess it's not that bad to give him an occasional start, but it's hard for me to justify "developing" him, because I think he won't amount to anything (other than a average glove guy that can't hit).

Matt700wlw
08-09-2005, 02:38 PM
The only reason I see Larue batting second is if he owns prior.

That's the reason

KronoRed
08-09-2005, 02:38 PM
Trying to win? we're buried! play the kids.

BRM
08-09-2005, 02:42 PM
If they're trying to win, they should have Aurillia in instead of Olmedo.

But I guess the FO still thinks Olmedo might be able to be something. IMO, he's a marginal utility guy at best. I guess it's not that bad to give him an occasional start, but it's hard for me to justify "developing" him, because I think he won't amount to anything (other than a average glove guy that can't hit).

I can see that but I certainly wouldn't want his .317 OBP hitting 2nd.

DeadRedinCT
08-09-2005, 02:56 PM
"Ray, congratulations! You're starting at 2b today. Oh by the way... Prior is starting for the Cubs. Go get 'em!"

CTA513
08-09-2005, 03:00 PM
"Ray, congratulations! You're starting at 2b today. Oh by the way... Prior is starting for the Cubs. Go get 'em!"

:laugh:

KronoRed
08-09-2005, 03:07 PM
"Ray, congratulations! You're starting at 2b today. Oh by the way... Prior is starting for the Cubs. Go get 'em!"

Watch Ray hit a homer ;)

OldXOhio
08-09-2005, 03:07 PM
Looks like the Cubs made a little move today: Remlinger traded to the BoSox for Astacio.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20050809&content_id=1163472&vkey=pr_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

Little Alex
08-09-2005, 03:08 PM
I still think the Reds will attain the .500 mark.

Reds Fanatic
08-09-2005, 03:10 PM
I still think the Reds will attain the .500 mark. 50 games left. Reds have to go 31-19 to get to .500 .

remdog
08-09-2005, 03:11 PM
With those stats against Prior I don't have a problem with a little expierment of LaRue hitting 2nd in the lineup.

Rem

Little Alex
08-09-2005, 03:12 PM
50 games left. Reds have to go 31-19 to get to .500 .

Not unreasonable, the way they have been playing of late.

KearnsyEars
08-09-2005, 03:13 PM
Reds are going to get beat today. The big question:

Can Adam Dunn hit 17 Homeruns in 50 remaining games?

KearnsyEars
08-09-2005, 03:14 PM
This has got to be the highest old Larue has hit in a game since his little league days.

REDREAD
08-09-2005, 03:15 PM
I can see that but I certainly wouldn't want his .317 OBP hitting 2nd.

I agree on that. I'm saying to hit Aurillia 7th or 8th (where Omedo is today)

REDREAD
08-09-2005, 03:17 PM
Trying to win? we're buried! play the kids.

I guess I have a different POV. I think even if the team is in last place, it should try to win every game for the benefit of the people that bought tickets.

If a kid is a legitimate prospect, then I have no problem giving at bats to develop the guy. However, if the kid is not a legit prospect (ie. Machado), then it's really a waste to give the kid at bats when you have a better older player that can help you win today.

Although Olmedo plays seldom enough that this isn't a big problem. If Olmedo started starting 3-4 days a week, I'd have a problem with it.

westofyou
08-09-2005, 03:18 PM
25 guys on the bench and a 5th place club.

Use em all, keep em fresh. It's good for future at bats and double switches. Plus Olmeda is actually in the Reds future.

REDREAD
08-09-2005, 03:19 PM
Use em all, keep em fresh. It's good for future at bats and double switches. Plus Olmeda is actually in the Reds future.

Yeah, I actually don't have a problem with Olmedo starting once every 10 or 14 games. You have a point there.

But if Olmedo is part of the "future", the future sure looks bleak.

cumberlandreds
08-09-2005, 03:20 PM
Temps in the mid 90's. Should be a lot of sweating going on today.

BRM
08-09-2005, 03:22 PM
Yeah, I actually don't have a problem with Olmedo starting once every 10 or 14 games. You have a point there.

But if Olmedo is part of the "future", the future sure looks bleak.

Not if his future is a reserve middle infielder.

redsfan30
08-09-2005, 03:23 PM
Can Adam Dunn hit 17 Homeruns in 50 remaining games?
No.

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2005, 03:23 PM
Felipe now 0 for last 23 after flying out on a 1-0 pitch.

westofyou
08-09-2005, 03:24 PM
But if Olmedo is part of the "future", the future sure looks bleak.

Not every piece of a team is a star. Look at the Orioles during the Weaver era or LaRussa's teams, good teams have all sorts of players, even glovey judy boys that make peanuts.

Reds Fanatic
08-09-2005, 03:24 PM
Lopez flies out to left. 1 out.

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 03:24 PM
As I said last night... Who cares about the Line-up....

Lets get another win today....

As Marvin Lewis said a few years back.

"Put a smile on your face, we are about to kick their ass"

Reds Fanatic
08-09-2005, 03:24 PM
Larue flies out to center. 2 outs.

remdog
08-09-2005, 03:25 PM
Yeah, I actually don't have a problem with Olmedo starting once every 10 or 14 games. You have a point there.

But if Olmedo is part of the "future", the future sure looks bleak.

You have to think of Rey as a better fielding/cheaper Juan Castro when Juan was not starting.

Rem

westofyou
08-09-2005, 03:26 PM
As Marvin Lewis said a few years back.

If there ever was a sport whose quotes were more ill fitted for baseball than football I've yet to come by it.

Strikes Out Looking
08-09-2005, 03:26 PM
There is a lot of Red in the stands at Wrigley today.

Reds Fanatic
08-09-2005, 03:26 PM
Junior singles to center.

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 03:27 PM
If there ever was a sport whose quotes were more ill fitted for baseball than football I've yet to come by it.


Shhhh, I still like it. :)

KronoRed
08-09-2005, 03:27 PM
Olmedo as a replacement for RA at a much cheaper price, also better D sounds good to me.

No Freel, play Ray.

REDREAD
08-09-2005, 03:28 PM
Not if his future is a reserve middle infielder.

I guess I misunderstood his interpretation of "the future".

IMO, reserve infielders are a dime a dozen (see Aurilllia). If all the farm system can produce is middle infielders, we're in serious trouble. I guess that's what I meant about my bleak comment. I just find it a bit scarey that any minor leaguer that we have that is even remotely close to the majors is in the majors now.

It's going to be a long, painful haul until the Homer, Bruce, etc wave arrives.

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2005, 03:29 PM
Dunn just missed that. Prior hung it and Dunn got under it.

REDREAD
08-09-2005, 03:29 PM
You have to think of Rey as a better fielding/cheaper Juan Castro when Juan was not starting.

Rem

That's true. He's not totally useless. I just wish we had something better coming out of the farm in the near future.

Reds Fanatic
08-09-2005, 03:29 PM
Dunn flies out. 0-0 mid 1st.

RedLegsToday
08-09-2005, 03:29 PM
Dunn flies out sharply to Patterson.

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 03:30 PM
Junior singles to center.


There goes the perfect game and no hitter :beerme:

Unassisted
08-09-2005, 03:30 PM
Nomar off to a slow start with the .177 average.

KronoRed
08-09-2005, 03:31 PM
Nomar off to a slow start with the .177 average.

Will he ever hit .300 again?

Reds Fanatic
08-09-2005, 03:34 PM
Lawton and Walker single. 1st and 2nd with no outs.

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 03:34 PM
1st two runners reach base for harrang...


Lee is up. :(

Heath
08-09-2005, 03:34 PM
Mr. Harang's leaving things a tad up today..

BRM
08-09-2005, 03:34 PM
Back to back singles by Lawton and Walker. Two on, none out.

Puffy
08-09-2005, 03:35 PM
Walker with 4 hits already this series.

REDREAD
08-09-2005, 03:35 PM
Will he ever hit .300 again?

He'll be fine, he just came off the DL yesterday, didn't he?

I bet he'll be back to his old self next year at the latest.

KronoRed
08-09-2005, 03:36 PM
I doubt it, how many years is it now he's been hurt?

Blimpie
08-09-2005, 03:36 PM
Mr. Harang's leaving things a tad up today..I know it's early, but any read on his velocity yet?

KronoRed
08-09-2005, 03:36 PM
We could use a nice triple play.

Reds Fanatic
08-09-2005, 03:37 PM
Lee pops out to 2nd. 1 out.

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 03:37 PM
Lee flied out to second. (83)

:beerme:

KronoRed
08-09-2005, 03:38 PM
Now just a normal double play please :D

redsrule2500
08-09-2005, 03:38 PM
Awesome Catch by Griffey!!!! :)

LincolnparkRed
08-09-2005, 03:38 PM
So for anyone watching on WGN how close did that one get??

Reds Fanatic
08-09-2005, 03:38 PM
Ramirez flies out to center. 2 outs.

redsrule2500
08-09-2005, 03:39 PM
5 feet before the warning track

westofyou
08-09-2005, 03:39 PM
I bet he'll be back to his old self next year at the latest.

Which old self? 98-2000 Nomar or the one after that?

redsfan30
08-09-2005, 03:39 PM
I know it's early, but any read on his velocity yet?
Fastball is around 91 MPH according to WGN.

He's thrown a couple of very nice changeups too.

Reds Fanatic
08-09-2005, 03:40 PM
Burnitz pops out to 3rd. 0-0 after 1.

Blimpie
08-09-2005, 03:40 PM
Fastball is around 91 MPH according to WGN.

He's thrown a couple of very nice changeups too.Thanks much.

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 03:40 PM
Good rebound for Harrang!

cumberlandreds
08-09-2005, 03:40 PM
Good job by Harang to wriggle out of that jam.

redsrule2500
08-09-2005, 03:41 PM
I wish all the Cubs/Braves/Indians games wern't televised by FSN OHIO so that they could get other games that we can't see on other networks ;)

Gallen5862
08-09-2005, 03:41 PM
Storms in area just got on. I am glad at least wgn showing the game. Harang pitched himself out of a jam in the First.

CTA513
08-09-2005, 03:41 PM
Fastball is around 91 MPH according to WGN.

He's thrown a couple of very nice changeups too.

It looked like he had a nice curveball/breaking ball on that pitch to Burnitz.

redsrule2500
08-09-2005, 03:42 PM
That girl should learn how to wave....what the heck was that?

LincolnparkRed
08-09-2005, 03:43 PM
Which old self? 98-2000 Nomar or the one after that?

He was fine until he did the cover of SI, I thought that was in '01 or so.

KearnsyEars
08-09-2005, 03:43 PM
nice...jr. has played a good CF this year.

redsrule2500
08-09-2005, 03:43 PM
Close to a HR there...!!! Nice hit by Casey

Gallen5862
08-09-2005, 03:43 PM
Casey leadoff with a double.

Blimpie
08-09-2005, 03:43 PM
My Gamecast says Harang's ERA is 3.87...is that correct? I thought for sure he was in "The Quatros"...

Reds Fanatic
08-09-2005, 03:44 PM
Casey leads off with a double.

cumberlandreds
08-09-2005, 03:45 PM
Casey has been raking lately. Build up that trade value for the winter.

remdog
08-09-2005, 03:45 PM
Really nice camera shot by WGN on the Casey double.

Rem

Tornon
08-09-2005, 03:45 PM
Yup, Harang's ERA went down from 3.90 after the 1st inning

Blimpie
08-09-2005, 03:45 PM
He was fine until he did the cover of SI, I thought that was in '01 or so.You mean the cover where Nomar was doing his impression of Joe Piscipo?

redsrule2500
08-09-2005, 03:46 PM
Casey sure has been doing great latley, I can't believe some of you want to trade him

Blimpie
08-09-2005, 03:46 PM
Yup, Harang's ERA went down from 3.90 after the 1st inning :beerme:

redsrule2500
08-09-2005, 03:46 PM
Reds lead 1 - 0

Gallen5862
08-09-2005, 03:47 PM
Casey scores on a single no rbi error.

OldXOhio
08-09-2005, 03:47 PM
Boy that Austin Kearns looks good in Cincinnati Red, don't ya think Cubs fans?

cumberlandreds
08-09-2005, 03:47 PM
Darth Kearns strikes again! Reds Lead 1-0.

REDREAD
08-09-2005, 03:47 PM
Casey has been raking lately. Build up that trade value for the winter.

He's untouchable, according to carl :laugh:

OldXOhio
08-09-2005, 03:48 PM
Casey sure has been doing great latley, I can't believe some of you want to trade him

Hopefully his trade value is increasing.

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 03:48 PM
Hey, we scored!

KronoRed
08-09-2005, 03:48 PM
Casey sure has been doing great latley, I can't believe some of you want to trade him

5 guys for 4 spots...Dunn should never be traded, JR is too expensive to trade and is producing now..Kearns and Pena now have little trade value..leaves Casey.

redsrule2500
08-09-2005, 03:48 PM
The guy didn't even touch second base!!!

He should have been safe.. (KEARNS)

Unassisted
08-09-2005, 03:49 PM
Double play. Olmedo up with 2 outs.

fielder's choice
08-09-2005, 03:50 PM
The guy didn't even touch second base!!!

He should have been safe.. (KEARNS)

It's a well-known unwritten rule that you don't really have to touch 2nd when you turn a DP.

Unassisted
08-09-2005, 03:50 PM
Olmedo squirts it between 1st and the mound. Prior can't field it and Olmedo gets credited with a hit.

DoogMinAmo
08-09-2005, 03:51 PM
Harang is boasting a .020 BA coming into this AB.

REDREAD
08-09-2005, 03:51 PM
Edit: I'm talking about Nomar garcipara

Maybe I'm just easier to please than you on Middle infielders WOY :)

In 2002, he OPSed 880. In 2003, he OPSed 869. In 2004 he OPSed 867.

Sure, that's not the MVP quality of play he had in 1999-2000, but it's still pretty solid for a shortstop.

I meant, he'd rebound from his ops of 440 this year.

Unassisted
08-09-2005, 03:51 PM
Harang Ks. REds half-Inning over. 1-0 Reds.

LincolnparkRed
08-09-2005, 03:51 PM
Harang is well on his way to 0-67 and tying Jack Billinham's record

cumberlandreds
08-09-2005, 03:52 PM
It's a well-known unwritten rule that you don't really have to touch 2nd when you turn a DP.

That's the old neighborhood play. If the fielders in the neighborhood of 2nd base the runner is out.

Blimpie
08-09-2005, 03:52 PM
Harang is boasting a .020 BA coming into this AB.Yeah, but BA is old school...what his OPS? Oh...really? Never mind.

KronoRed
08-09-2005, 03:52 PM
Harang is well on his way to 0-67 and tying Jack Billinham's record

Something to cheer for ;)

CTA513
08-09-2005, 03:53 PM
Harang would be perfect for the AL, that way he wouldnt have to bat. ;)

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2005, 03:53 PM
Casey sure has been doing great latley, I can't believe some of you want to trade him

A good August does not make up for an awful April through July. Casey is a below average first baseman. Trading Casey allows Dunn, Griffey, Kearns, and Pena to play everyday.

DoogMinAmo
08-09-2005, 03:53 PM
Yeah, but BA is old school...what his OPS? Oh...really? Never mind.

If you really want to know... .039

Well, we know the pitchers aren't the reason for this great offense.

redsrule2500
08-09-2005, 03:54 PM
5 guys for 4 spots...Dunn should never be traded, JR is too expensive to trade and is producing now..Kearns and Pena now have little trade value..leaves Casey.

The Reds could have traded Griffey I heard...and I think Kearns and Pena still have great trade value.

redsrule2500
08-09-2005, 03:54 PM
A good August does not make up for an awful April through July. Casey is a below average first baseman.

:rolleyes:

REDREAD
08-09-2005, 03:55 PM
5 guys for 4 spots...Dunn should never be traded, JR is too expensive to trade and is producing now..Kearns and Pena now have little trade value..leaves Casey.

Got to keep my streak of disagreeing with you going :)

I'd prefer to deal Casey as well, but I think you're underestimating the trade value of Pena and Kearns. Particularly Kearns. By the end of the season, Kearns trade value will probably be back up (or slightly higher) than it was in spring training.

Remember, in spring training, the Indians offered Cliff Lee for Kearns. That's pretty good value. Too bad DanO was too stupid to take it.

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 03:55 PM
Garciaparra grounds out to FeLo.

KronoRed
08-09-2005, 03:55 PM
The Reds could have traded Griffey I heard...and I think Kearns and Pena still have great trade value.

JR is producing now for his what he is making, Casey is not.

Kearns and Pena would bring us little and provide little salary relief

DoogMinAmo
08-09-2005, 03:55 PM
A good August does not make up for an awful April through July. Casey is a below average first baseman.

After posting a 1200+ OPS in August, Casey has his season OPS over 800. If he can get it to the mid to high 800s, then yes, a good August does make up for an awful first half. Must think trade value...

Matt700wlw
08-09-2005, 03:56 PM
Wily Mo spoke up about not playing now....wishes he or Kearns would have been traded.

This was bound to happen

Blimpie
08-09-2005, 03:56 PM
If you really want to know... .039

Well, we know the pitchers aren't the reason for this great offense.Eric Milton and his two homers fart in your general direction... ;)

fielder's choice
08-09-2005, 03:56 PM
Casey is a below average first baseman.

Making a ridiculous amount of $$$

Puffy
08-09-2005, 03:56 PM
Casey sure has been doing great latley, I can't believe some of you want to trade him

7 HR's and an OPS less than .800. Not bad for a SS, but a first baseman? Listen, if the Reds didn't have 4 OF's, three of them with enormous potential and one an all-century plyer, I'd stay away from the trade Casey thoughts, but to cost as much as he does with a SS's production, I say trade him the first sign of an offer. Today if possible. Tomorrow for sure. And over the winter, you betcha.

EricF
08-09-2005, 03:56 PM
Harang's strikeout didn't change his batting average. I guess when it's so low, there's not much room to go lower. BA before the AB: .0204 (1 for 49), BA after the AB: an even .020 (1 for 50).

KronoRed
08-09-2005, 03:57 PM
Remember, in spring training, the Indians offered Cliff Lee for Kearns. That's pretty good value. Too bad DanO was too stupid to take it.

Also have to think salary relief, Casey going would bring it.

Reds Fanatic
08-09-2005, 03:57 PM
Patterson reaches on a bunt single.

REDREAD
08-09-2005, 03:57 PM
After posting a 1200+ OPS in August, ...

Wow, didn't realize Casey was on such a tear of late. Looks like his "good half" season is coming in the 2nd half this year. (Traditionally, he's usually had one good half and one bad half).

I agree Doog, if he can raise his stats in the last part of the season, he might be movable this offseason.

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2005, 03:57 PM
:rolleyes:

Clever response.

NL 1B-.284/.362/.485-.847

Casey-.313/.370/.427-.797

50 points below average.

Reds Fanatic
08-09-2005, 03:57 PM
Blanco singles. 1st and 2nd with 1 out.

KearnsyEars
08-09-2005, 03:58 PM
Im on board for trading casey.

redsrule2500
08-09-2005, 03:58 PM
7 HR's and an OPS less than .800. Not bad for a SS, but a first baseman? Listen, if the Reds didn't have 4 OF's, three of them with enormous potential and one an all-century plyer, I'd stay away from the trade Casey thoughts, but to cost as much as he does with a SS's production, I say trade him the first sign of an offer. Today if possible. Tomorrow for sure. And over the winter, you betcha.

His OPS is above .800 - and why do we need more HR players when we have the most HR's in the league? I like Casey for his average and solid hitting.

KearnsyEars
08-09-2005, 03:59 PM
could we get some game updates? I am at work, thanks!

REDREAD
08-09-2005, 03:59 PM
Also have to think salary relief, Casey going would bring it.

I agree, in an ideal world, you move Casey.

Problem is, you've got to find someone that wants him. Other teams don't want him for the same reasons we want to get rid of him.

Puffy
08-09-2005, 03:59 PM
Clever response.

NL 1B-.284/.362/.485-.847

Casey-.313/.370/.427-.797

50 points below average.

Quick work! Nice job - you just wanna join the stat club, don't you? Come on, you can admit it. They have great hats and stuff!

fielder's choice
08-09-2005, 04:00 PM
His OPS is above .800 - and why do we need more HR players when we have the most HR's in the league? I like Casey for his average and solid hitting.

Because more is better.

redsrule2500
08-09-2005, 04:00 PM
Cubs lead it 2 - 1

CTA513
08-09-2005, 04:00 PM
Harang trying to field Pattersons bunt comes back to haunt him.

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2005, 04:00 PM
And Casey is slow and has the range of a turtle on crack.

Unassisted
08-09-2005, 04:00 PM
Lawton doubles off the wall with the bases loaded. 2-1 Cubs

EricF
08-09-2005, 04:00 PM
Well-executed sac bunt by Prior, setting up a 2-run double for Lawton.

Unassisted
08-09-2005, 04:01 PM
Walker flies out to right. 2nd inning ends. 2-1 Cubs

fielder's choice
08-09-2005, 04:01 PM
Walker flies out. Top of the order coming up for the Redlegs.

KronoRed
08-09-2005, 04:01 PM
I agree, in an ideal world, you move Casey.

Problem is, you've got to find someone that wants him. Other teams don't want him for the same reasons we want to get rid of him.

Have to hope some people around the league look at bat avg and not any other stats, the Mets come to mind.

Blimpie
08-09-2005, 04:01 PM
Im on board for trading casey


could we get some game updates? I am at work, thanks!

Update: Casey still hasn't been traded.

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2005, 04:03 PM
Quick work! Nice job - you just wanna join the stat club, don't you? Come on, you can admit it. They have great hats and stuff!

Free hats! Woohoo!

http://www.netleyabbeytartanarmy.net/hol_paul_rich_close.jpg

Puffy
08-09-2005, 04:03 PM
His OPS is above .800 - and why do we need more HR players when we have the most HR's in the league? I like Casey for his average and solid hitting.

Yes, with that double his OPS shot over .800. I believe it is now .801. Considering the league average for first basemen is .847 I'd say below average fits nicely.

Not to mention his high average in the third spot for the lions share of the year produced less than 40 rbi, and I'd say the high average and solid hitting did little. If Casey isn't going to hit HR's then he has to hit doubles - until recently he wasn't doing that and the singles just wasn't cutting it.

Not to mention the 24 extra outs he cost on DP's - maybe we should factor that into batting average considering each double play cost the Reds an extra out.

redsrule2500
08-09-2005, 04:03 PM
Do you guys agree with Lopez batting first and Freel 2nd, or would you switch them back?

redsrule2500
08-09-2005, 04:04 PM
Yes, with that double his OPS shot over .800. I believe it is now .801. Considering the league average for first basemen is .847 I'd say below average fits nicely.


There you go comparing other first baseman at the plate, which doesn't mean anything. There are 8 batters, and they play positions...it has nothing to do with where they play in the field.

Reds Fanatic
08-09-2005, 04:04 PM
I like Freel leadoff and Lopez batting 2nd.

OSURedLeg
08-09-2005, 04:05 PM
Redsrule, you need to quit oggling Casey's batting average and look at stats that show a more rounded view of his performance. The fact is, he's a slap hitter at a power hitters position. He's putting up batting stats equivalent to middle infielders. The problem is, he's being paid 8 million to play a position that requires a big bat - and minimal GIDPs. It's one thing if we were paying him 4 or 5 mil, but a 1st baseman making the money he is needs to be producing better than average at his position (even if he's a heckuva nice guy)

Blimpie
08-09-2005, 04:05 PM
Do you guys agree with Lopez batting first and Freel 2nd, or would you switch them back?I say, wait until they have combined for 0-68...then move Harang to the leadoff spot.

Reds Fanatic
08-09-2005, 04:05 PM
Lopez strikes out swinging. 1 out.

KearnsyEars
08-09-2005, 04:05 PM
updates

DoogMinAmo
08-09-2005, 04:05 PM
Do you guys agree with Lopez batting first and Freel 2nd, or would you switch them back?

Narron said it was to split up the lefthanders, with Lopez not doing anything from the right side this season, it makes sense. Narron made it sound like when the Reds face RHs, Freel will go back to leading off.

fielder's choice
08-09-2005, 04:05 PM
Is it just me, or has Felipe been getting down 0-2 just about every AB lately? He needs to start jumping on some 1st pitch fastballs, like he did in the 1st half.

Puffy
08-09-2005, 04:06 PM
The Reds are hitting Prior well thus far, but I still don't like to see them down, even if only by a run.

Prior could flip that switch and the Reds would be doomed (at least until they get to the bullpen)

KronoRed
08-09-2005, 04:06 PM
I like Freel leadoff and Lopez batting 2nd.

Same here, but Lopez has been more productive in the leadoff spot.

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2005, 04:06 PM
LaRue doubles to right-center.

OSURedLeg
08-09-2005, 04:06 PM
Do you guys agree with Lopez batting first and Freel 2nd, or would you switch them back?

It's just to try & ignite some offense. Once they break their funks, then switch them back. They make a great 1 - 2 when they're firing on all cylinders.

Reds Fanatic
08-09-2005, 04:06 PM
Larue doubles to center.

SteelSD
08-09-2005, 04:07 PM
Larue doubles. 1-0 count to Grif.

LincolnparkRed
08-09-2005, 04:07 PM
So Larue does own Prior, maybe Narron is smarter than most give him credit for him

EricF
08-09-2005, 04:07 PM
LaRue hitting second is working so far!

SteelSD
08-09-2005, 04:08 PM
So Larue does own Prior, maybe Narron is smarter than most give him credit for him

Over-reliance on small sample size data is never a sign of intelligence.

KearnsyEars
08-09-2005, 04:08 PM
how did the reds get their run?

Don't make me resort to ESPN gamecast which is not close to real time!

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2005, 04:09 PM
how did the reds get their run?

Don't make me resort to ESPN gamecast which is not close to real time!

Kearns singled Casey to third, and then scored on a Burnitz error.

Griffey K's.

Puffy
08-09-2005, 04:09 PM
There you go comparing other first baseman at the plate, which doesn't mean anything. There are 8 batters, and they play positions...it has nothing to do with where they play in the field.

Not when he gets paid a first baseman's salary!! 8 million to play a power position.

And using your logic that positions don't matter, well if a guy is a .300 singles hitter then he better have enough speed to go first to third on a single, second to home on a single, and first to home on a double - he has none. He is a singles hitter who clogs the bases, hits into a ton of DP's, and has the fielding range of a turtle on crack (apparently!).

Reds Fanatic
08-09-2005, 04:09 PM
how did the reds get their run?

Don't make me resort to ESPN gamecast which is not close to real time! Last inning Casey doubled, Kearns singled and there was an error on the outfielder.

KearnsyEars
08-09-2005, 04:09 PM
Ok im on gamecast, and my boy Kearns got a hit!!!!!!!! off prior!!

It would appear we're getting to prior early, keep the pitch count up and don't let him get in a groove like he usually does against us.

Also, Harang has got to hold the cubbies down from here on out

LincolnparkRed
08-09-2005, 04:09 PM
how did the reds get their run?

Don't make me resort to ESPN gamecast which is not close to real time!

Casey in on a Kearns single after he doubled in the 2nd

Blimpie
08-09-2005, 04:09 PM
Over-reliance on small sample size data is never a sign of intelligence.Then the next time you are at the doctor, make sure to ask him to take ALL of your blood... ;)

CTA513
08-09-2005, 04:10 PM
Priors got a pretty nice strike zone.

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2005, 04:10 PM
That strike one call to Dunn was ridiculous. I am in favor of using questec to call balls and strikes. These umps are terrible... Dunn has the worst strikezone I have seen in a long time. Anything above the ankles is a strike to him.

LincolnparkRed
08-09-2005, 04:11 PM
Over-reliance on small sample size data is never a sign of intelligence.

small sample size or not some times a manager just needs to play a hunch since going by the book doesn't always work.

KearnsyEars
08-09-2005, 04:11 PM
Dunn k's, bad dunn, bad!

Puffy
08-09-2005, 04:11 PM
That strike one call to Dunn was ridiculous. I am in favor of using questec to call balls and strikes. These umps are terrible. Dunn has the worst strikezone I have seen in a long time.

Yeah, these umpires call strikes like turtles on crack!

:mooner:

KronoRed
08-09-2005, 04:12 PM
That strike one call to Dunn was ridiculous. I am in favor of using questec to call balls and strikes. These umps are terrible. Dunn has the worst strikezone I have seen in a long time.

Agreed, I'd trust computers over some of the sock high strikes Dunn gets called on him

Puffy
08-09-2005, 04:12 PM
And Prior strikes out the side - like I said, if he flips the switch the Reds are doomed until and if they get to the Cubs bullpen.

SteelSD
08-09-2005, 04:12 PM
Then the next time you are at the doctor, make sure to ask him to take ALL of your blood... ;)

Can they replace it with new stuff that isn't filled with food preservatives and alcohol residual?

Sometimes I think I'd like an oil change. ;)

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 04:13 PM
Lee Doubles.

westofyou
08-09-2005, 04:13 PM
Over-reliance on small sample size data is never a sign of intelligence.


Most of the time I think a player needs about twenty at bats before I can get a reading on him against a certain pitcher.

Earl Weaver

I like the juggle myself, sometimes it can work wonders. That sadi LaRue has been hot, has a history against Prior and he is fresh off watching Valentine hit the night before.

It's a nice challenge Naron is giving him.

LincolnparkRed
08-09-2005, 04:13 PM
Lee is swinging at the first pitch to get out of his funk, maybe Felo will take notice and try that himself.

fielder's choice
08-09-2005, 04:13 PM
And Prior strikes out the side - like I said, if he flips the switch the Reds are doomed until and if they get to the Cubs bullpen.

He's thrown 51 pitches through 3... :pray:

KearnsyEars
08-09-2005, 04:13 PM
Casey in on a Kearns single after he doubled in the 2nd


I'm sorry but these are the situations in which I think RBI's should be credited.

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 04:14 PM
Ramirez flied out to right.

fielder's choice
08-09-2005, 04:14 PM
I'm sorry but these are the situations in which I think RBI's should be credited.

Why?

LincolnparkRed
08-09-2005, 04:15 PM
Ron just called out Aramis and his lack of effort/concentration "does he want to play, geez" So now the cubs see why Pittsburgh was willing to trade him

Puffy
08-09-2005, 04:16 PM
He's thrown 51 pitches through 3... :pray:

This is one reason I don't understand why the great and all knowing Dusty used Wood last night in a 9-0 game. Why pitch him there when you could use him in a closer game.

Well, good for the Reds, cause if Prior can only go 7 then they don't have Wood to go the 8th.

LincolnparkRed
08-09-2005, 04:17 PM
Burnitz keeps fouling off harangs pitches

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 04:18 PM
Burnitz keeps fouling off harangs pitches

5 Stright Fouls

SteelSD
08-09-2005, 04:18 PM
small sample size or not some times a manager just needs to play a hunch since going by the book doesn't always work.

In a game that's defined by failure more than it is success, nothing "always" works- particularly hunches.

If you want to find a guy who's letting statistics lie to him, check out your average MLB Manager. He wants them to lie to him. He needs it in fact, because then he'll have the tiny shreds of mistruth necessary to justify why his gut is vetoing his brain.

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 04:20 PM
Burnitz is out, but i missed it. :p

LincolnparkRed
08-09-2005, 04:21 PM
Burnitz is out, but i missed it. :p

he k'ed finally

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 04:22 PM
Garciaparra grounded out to shortstop.

Casey, Kearns and Easy-E due up.

fielder's choice
08-09-2005, 04:22 PM
nomah grounds out to short to end the inning.

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 04:25 PM
Basehit single for Casey.

Reds Fanatic
08-09-2005, 04:25 PM
Casey singles to center.

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2005, 04:25 PM
Prior just threw a pitch behind Kearns.

Reds Fanatic
08-09-2005, 04:26 PM
Prior just threw a pitch behind Kearns. How did Kearns react?

fielder's choice
08-09-2005, 04:26 PM
There you go comparing other first baseman at the plate, which doesn't mean anything. There are 8 batters, and they play positions...it has nothing to do with where they play in the field.

Here's all you need to know about Casey. He has one more RBI than Rich Aurilia this year.

Puffy
08-09-2005, 04:27 PM
If you want to find a guy who's letting statistics lie to him, check out your average MLB Manager. He wants them to lie to him. He needs it in fact, because then he'll have the tiny shreds of mistruth necessary to justify why his gut is vetoing his brain.

precious lies. precious

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-9/825505/untitled.jpg

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 04:27 PM
Kearns flied out to right.

LincolnparkRed
08-09-2005, 04:27 PM
In a game that's defined by failure more than it is success, nothing "always" works- particularly hunches.

If you want to find a guy who's letting statistics lie to him, check out your average MLB Manager. He wants them to lie to him. He needs it in fact, because then he'll have the tiny shreds of mistruth necessary to justify why his gut is vetoing his brain.

managers can only put players into position to suceed, now the fact that the players don't come through is usually still blamed on the manager.

the point with Larue batting second is yes it is a small sample but what are you losing by letting a guy that has had success get a possible extra at bat off a starter that he has had success against.

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2005, 04:28 PM
How did Kearns react?

He didn't do much. Just dropped his head for a second.

Kearns flies to right on a 3-2 pitch.

Tony Cloninger
08-09-2005, 04:29 PM
Does ANYONE on this Reds staff have the cajones (or command) to do the same to a Cubs hitter?

This staff is very bad at throwing inside and moving people off the plate.

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 04:30 PM
Easy-E Strikes out.

RosieRed
08-09-2005, 04:30 PM
Does ANYONE on this Reds staff have the cajones (or command) to do the same to a Cubs hitter?

This staff is very bad at throwing inside and moving people off the plate.

Hudson could do it. Maybe not intentionally, but he could do it just the same.

:)

Blimpie
08-09-2005, 04:30 PM
Does ANYONE on this Reds staff have the cajones (or command) to do the same to a Cubs hitter?

This staff is very bad at throwing inside and moving people off the plate.Nowadays, the umps give pretty quick warnings and subsequent ejections...

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 04:32 PM
Olmedo struck out looking.


Patterson, Blanco, Prior due up.

BoydsOfSummer
08-09-2005, 04:32 PM
Prior threw a couple yak-tastic curveballs that inning...lol

westofyou
08-09-2005, 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by redsrule2500
There you go comparing other first baseman at the plate, which doesn't mean anything. There are 8 batters, and they play positions...it has nothing to do with where they play in the field.

Maximize your lineup with slugging in positions that you can hide players with other warts, hold tight to singles hitters with speed and a glove.

They've been doing it since Dan Brouthers played.

SteelSD
08-09-2005, 04:36 PM
managers can only put players into position to suceed, now the fact that the players don't come through is usually still blamed on the manager.

Managers play hunches because they believe they'll put themselves in the best position to affect success rates. Hunches aren't about players. They're about Managers.


the point with Larue batting second is yes it is a small sample but what are you losing by letting a guy that has had success get a possible extra at bat off a starter that he has had success against.

Problem is that sample sizes like that aren't the least bit predictive. Larue's past performance against Prior- in this case- is meaningless. Same with Griffey and Dunn versus a "kooky lefthander".

You might want to note that I really don't have a big issue with Larue hitting 2nd today. But that's because Larue's a pretty good hitter overall- not because the numbers tell me that he's got some hits against a particular pitchers over a small sampling of unrelated At-Bats.

As for what you're losing by gambling on small sample size data? Let's just say that if I pull positive chips in 8 games out of 10 at a blackjack table, that doesn't mean it's time to up my bet.

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 04:36 PM
Patterson struck out looking.

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 04:37 PM
Blanco fouled out to third.

LincolnparkRed
08-09-2005, 04:37 PM
Kearns pulls a Pena and lets the ball skip past him and go to the wall, Prior gets to second

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 04:38 PM
Prior singled to right, Prior to second on right fielder Kearnsī fielding error.

remdog
08-09-2005, 04:38 PM
Yikes! Kearnes looked like why they put the wrost player on a Little League team in RF. :roll:

Rem

fielder's choice
08-09-2005, 04:39 PM
Lawton grounds out to Casey. Harang up 1st in the 5th, hopefully he can stay hot at the plate.

M2
08-09-2005, 04:39 PM
Over-reliance on small sample size data is never a sign of intelligence.

Agreed, but when you're going up against Mark Prior (a guy who's likely to make any lineup look foolish) you might as well take a shot on a small sample size, particularly if it's a guy who's been playing well.

WOY, were you comparing him to other first basemen again? Me, I compare him to the Easter Bunny.

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 04:39 PM
Lawton grounded out to first.

Harrang, Lopez and LaRue due up.


Harrang Line is: Pitch Count: 61, 7 Hits, 2ER, 2K's
Prior Line is: Pitch Count: 69, 6Hits, 1ER, 6K's.

BRM
08-09-2005, 04:40 PM
WOY, were you comparing him to other first basemen again? Me, I compare him to the Easter Bunny.

That's not fair. The Easter Bunny rakes!!

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 04:42 PM
Harang struck out swinging.

M2
08-09-2005, 04:42 PM
That's not fair. The Easter Bunny rakes!!

But who's more cuddly?

And who spends more time making every egg special?

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2005, 04:43 PM
2-1 pitch to Felipe was six inches off the plate...called strike two.

Gainesville Red
08-09-2005, 04:45 PM
C'mon Felipe, snap out of it.

Reds Fanatic
08-09-2005, 04:45 PM
Lopez grounds out to 2nd. 2 outs.

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 04:45 PM
2-1 pitch to Felipe was six inches off the plate...called strike two.

Players have to adjust to the strike zone.

Is it fair? No, but its an everyday thing they have to adjust to.

Mean while.

Lopez grounded out to second.

westofyou
08-09-2005, 04:45 PM
WOY, were you comparing him to other first basemen again? Me, I compare him to the Easter Bunny.
http://www.classicmoviecorner.com/images/harvey.jpg

Reds Fanatic
08-09-2005, 04:46 PM
Larue grounds out to 3rd. 2-1 Cubs mid 5th.

Garrett
08-09-2005, 04:46 PM
Lopez grounds out to 2nd. 2 outs.

It's so painful. He needs a rest. He's flailing and failing and falling fast.

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 04:47 PM
LaRue grounded out to third.

Walker, Lee, Ramirez due up.

Reds Fanatic
08-09-2005, 04:47 PM
Prior now up to 84 pitches through 5 innings.

CTA513
08-09-2005, 04:48 PM
Players have to adjust to the strike zone.

Is it fair? No, but its an everyday thing they have to adjust to.

Mean while.

Lopez grounded out to second.

If Prior gets that strike zone then Harang should get the same.

OnBaseMachine
08-09-2005, 04:50 PM
If Prior gets that strike zone then Harang should get the same.

Exactly. I'm tired of the Atlanta Braves getting a bigger strikezone than any other team. I'm tired of Clemens, Maddux, Johnson, etc. getting huge strikezones. I'm tired of Pujols and Bonds having strikezones the size of a penny. In my opinion, every team and player should have the same strikezone.

KronoRed
08-09-2005, 04:50 PM
In my opinion, every team and player should have the same strikezone.

:clap:

If it's takes cameras and computers then so be it..it's on the UMPS if it comes to that

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 04:51 PM
Walker flied out to right.

Tony Cloninger
08-09-2005, 04:51 PM
I have said that around here many times.....1st time someone agreed with me....Publicly.

EricF
08-09-2005, 04:52 PM
Harang's batting average is still .020, but creeping a little closer to a change. Now it's .0196.

BRM
08-09-2005, 04:52 PM
But who's more cuddly?

And who spends more time making every egg special?

I'm not sure I want to know who's more cuddly... :eek:

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 04:52 PM
Lee flied out to Center.

LincolnparkRed
08-09-2005, 04:53 PM
Exactly. I'm tired of the Atlanta Braves getting a bigger strikezone than any other team. I'm tired of Clemens, Maddux, Johnson, etc. getting huge strikezones. I'm tired of Pujols and Bonds having strikezones the size of a penny. In my opinion, every team and player should have the same strikezone.

Maddux had a neat qoute about that the other week. He said that the braves pitchers were getting a couple of inches on either side same as the opposing pitcher it was just that the Braves pitchers could hit that spot 15 times a game but the other team would only hit it once or twice.

BRM
08-09-2005, 04:53 PM
So, what's the best approach to Felipe's slump? Should Narron sit him for a few days or maybe drop him to 7th or 8th and let him play through it?

RedsMan3203
08-09-2005, 04:54 PM
Ramirez grounded bunt out to right.

Griff, Dunn and Casey due up.

CTA513
08-09-2005, 04:55 PM
So, what's the best approach to Felipe's slump? Should Narron sit him for a few days or maybe drop him to 7th or 8th and let him play through it?

Sit him a couple days and have him work on his hitting... but I think hes just tired, hes not hitting stuff he was able to hit earlier in the year and is chasing pitches he normally doesnt chase.

Tony Cloninger
08-09-2005, 04:55 PM
He sits WED for RA anyways......he hit some hard balls on Monday. I thought he would be out of it by today, but MP is tough.


Steve Garvey once went 0 for 27 in 1978.

REDREAD
08-09-2005, 04:56 PM
what's the score.. darn meeting made me miss about 10 pages of game thread.

Garrett
08-09-2005, 04:56 PM
So, what's the best approach to Felipe's slump? Should Narron sit him for a few days or maybe drop him to 7th or 8th and let him play through it?
sit him for 2 games, then let hit pitch hit for 2 games, then put him back in.