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M2
08-11-2005, 03:22 PM
I confess to not getting it, at all, but clearly the Cubs seem to be the enemy-du-jour for Reds fans. Certainly that's the take I get looking at this board's reaction to the Cubs. We disagree about lots of things around here, but most everyone seems to take particular delight in beating the Cubs.

But why the Cubs have become the new Dodgers is something that leaves me baffled.

For instance, the Reds-Dodgers rivalry was built around constantly warring for the NL West over the course of two decades. It was built around there being something at stake.

Yet what have the Reds and Cubs ever battled over? You pretty much have to go back to Hod Eller vs. Hippo Vaughn to find a time when both teams managed to be simultaneously relevant. Or maybe we're still angry about the whole King Kelly deal.

Have the Cubs had an easy-to-hate team in recent years? Well, Dusty Baker can work a nerve, but people didn't seem to hate the Giants when he spent a decade in San Francisco. Ryne Sandberg and Mark Grace were personable, easy-going guys. Sammy Sosa, roids or no, was a generally congenial, happy guy. He didn't get along with Dusty so well, but wouldn't that wind up in the plus column for most folks? Derrek Lee? Nice guy. Nomar Garciaparra? Nice guy, cute wife. Todd Walker? Hell of a nice guy. Mark Prior, Kerry Wood and Carlos Zambrano? Well, I'm jealous, but that's about it. Kyle Farnsworth? Sure he was a jerky guy, but he was a short-timer and he was right when he called the Reds a second division club.

So maybe it's the fans. I've got to admit, being from the east coast, I don't bump into a lot of Cubs fans, though the ones I've known have been generally good-natured about how lousy the franchise has been for the past half century. Maybe I'm meeting the exceptions, but I vastly prefer the pathology of the Cubs fans I've met than the Phillies fans I've known (and often am related to).

Though Cubs fans do seem to take over the GAB these days when the Baby Bears are in town. I'm not sure what's so wrong with that. So they care enough to show up. Seems to me that the GAB turning into a homefield advantage for Chicago says at least as much about Reds fans as Cubs fans.

Then there's geography. Chicago's close to Cincinnati and in the same division. Then again, Pittsburgh's closer and the Reds actually have a history with the Pirates. Plus, the Cubs have a rival. They and the Cardinals are mortal enemies. It's one of the best rivalries in sports in terms of fan intensity. Kind of bad form to be chasing after a married franchise like that. The Reds will never be more than a fling for Cubs fans. In fact the Reds might never be more than second runnerup because Milwaukee's just a hop, skip and jump away from Chi Town.

And that gets me to market size. Chicago's a big city, a cosmopolitan city, and it dominates the midwest. As I once heard someone say, "You don't fly over Chicago." Of course if you're on a Delta/Comair flight you don't fly over Cincinnati (or at least northern Kentucky, but I digress). Good or bad, Chicago teams get inordinate attention. The city has a sports media horde that probably outnumbers the sum total of the other five cities in the NL Central. So I can understand the "Shut up already about your lousy franchise" reflex. That said, small market fans making a to-do over the nearest big market is a little too much like locker room envy for my tastes. It's like saying, "Take your skyline, your nightlife and your international prominence and shove it." I've known Red Sox fans who react that way to New York, not the Yankees, the city. It always comes across as desperate and hollow when I run across it.

As you can tell, I'm still groping for why this Cubs thing has developed. I'd really like to see the Reds and Indians get in the same division somehow. Then the club would have itself a rival worth sinking your teeth into.

MWM
08-11-2005, 03:26 PM
Years of attending Reds-Cubs games in Cincinnati. It's not just recent years, but for as long as I remember. They behave, in general, much differently than fans of other teams in the home park.

westofyou
08-11-2005, 03:26 PM
Though Cubs fans do seem to take over the GAB these days when the Baby Bears are in town.

There ya have it. In Nuxhalls new book it opens with that same gripe during the 2003 season.

Same reason why the Braves were so hated early on too.

KronoRed
08-11-2005, 03:27 PM
Cub fans are to blame, the arrogance! especially for a team that last won anything of note when Teddy Roosevelt was on office.

bucksfan
08-11-2005, 03:31 PM
I used to like the Cubs quite a bit. Loved the atmosphere at the ballpark, I even watched lots of Cub games when I could back in the 80's on channel 55 WFFT when we got a total of 6 channels. Something happened to alter my perspective - no doubt. I attribute a lot of it to Dusty (though I too thought he was kinda cool in SF), some of it to shedding the "lovable loser" tag a bit, a some of it to me just getting older and more cynical ;) Hard to pinpoint, as you aptly described M2. And I am one of those who has "turned"...

Blimpie
08-11-2005, 03:32 PM
Three words: "Wrigley South, baaaa-beee!"

Which is what I always end up hearing every time I have sat next to some zipper-headed, sand-blowing, mouth-breathing idiot Cub fan who bothered to make the trip to Riverfront/Cinergy/GABP to watch his beloved Cubbies play the Reds. And for what? Because the Cubs have had some sucess (albeit not recently :mooner: ) in the past against the Reds--a team with a much smaller revenue stream and a lousy FO for the past thirty years? Choker...Losers....The whole lot of 'em.

Steve Bartman..Steve Bartman..Steve Bartman..Steve Bartman..Steve Bartman..Steve Bartman..Steve Bartman..Steve Bartman..Steve Bartman..Steve Bartman..Steve Bartman..Steve Bartman..

There. I feel better.

SunDeck
08-11-2005, 03:33 PM
Though Cubs fans do seem to take over the GAB these days when the Baby Bears are in town. I'm not sure what's so wrong with that. So they care enough to show up. Seems to me that the GAB turning into a homefield advantage for Chicago says at least as much about Reds fans as Cubs fans.

They come to our ballpark...the sit there...they stand up...<SHUDDER> they cheer for their team.

Roy Tucker
08-11-2005, 03:38 PM
Though Cubs fans do seem to take over the GAB these days when the Baby Bears are in town.
Bingo.

Like I said in the game thread yesterday, I gritted my teeth big time when the front-running Cubs fans came to GABP and carried around big signs saying Wrigley Field South and carried on like they invented the game of baseball.

There wasn't much to be done when the Cubs beat the snot out of the Reds. Yell louder I suppose.

It does generate bad blood and it's one of those things you file away for a future date. And when that future date comes (like the season ending series last year and this latest 3 game sweep at Wrigley), it just makes it all the much sweeter.

I've got nothing against the players or Dusty. And the times when I've been to Wrigley, the fans have been friendly.

There must just be an obnoxious subset that comes to Cincinnati.

Danny Serafini
08-11-2005, 03:40 PM
For me hating the Cubs doesn't have anything to do with being a Reds fan, I'd hate the Cubs even if I was a Devil Rays fan. It's how they played up the lovable loser angle for so long. Do you know what being a loverable loser makes you? A loser. They trotted out bad team after bad team after bad team, and for some reason people just ate it up. They expected to lose, and their fans didn't care. They're people who define themselves as losers and smile about it. Ugh. As long as they had Wrigley Field and Haray Caray, who cares about what the actual team does. It seems like so many people aren't fans of Cubs baseball, they're fans of the Cubs brand name, and I just find that really annoying.

CTA513
08-11-2005, 03:44 PM
I like the Cubs... but not there fans.

LincolnparkRed
08-11-2005, 03:45 PM
I know that for myself growing up I could never tell you other than in 1984 and 1989 how the cubs did in a certain season. I have been living in Chicago since 1999 and I think part of the problem is that Reds fans remember the cubs as a team that didn't spend that much on players but since 1998 they have always been a higher payroll team which has helped them make the playoffs in 98, 2000, and 2003 while we have been waiting 10+ years to get back to the postseason.

Then you also have the WGN factor in that since the owners of the Cubs happen to own their own tv network you are force fed the cubs from April to October. In this vein you have the Chip and Dip factor which I think the main reason why most of the recent cub haters have jumped on that bandwagon.

The last thing I can see is a little bit of jealousy in that the Cubs have drawn so well in the past few years at home that is now easier to get tickets for Cubs away games then it is to go to Wrigley to see them there. That coupled with the fact the reach of WGN means you will always see a lot of Cub fans attending away games. this obviously angers a lot of people but if you think about it they are putting butts in the seats at GABP which should help the Reds revenue.

Just my humble opinion

Blimpie
08-11-2005, 03:46 PM
I've got nothing against the players or Dusty. And the times when I've been to Wrigley, the fans have been friendly.

There must just be an obnoxious subset that comes to Cincinnati.Other than the whole "Wrigley South" crap, has anyone else ever heard any of these little gems repeated by Cubs fans ad nauseum while watching the game? I have.....

"Look at all of the Northsiders here...We own this joint!"

"We oughta buy Reds season tickets. The tickets are much easier to get here--than they are at the Confines."

"They ain't gonna try to run on Sammy's arm ( :confused: )...."

TeamBoone
08-11-2005, 03:48 PM
I have always disliked the Cubs, even way way back when I was a Yankee fan.

I think part of it is the loveable losers tag... they are losers, but they're not very loveable. Most I've run into (here and at Wrigley) are not very nice.

Plus, for a team that hasn't done squat in a whole lot of years, they still draw a ton of media attention. I've never understood why.

And, I think their old, stinky park (literally, on the inside anyway) is waaaay overrated.

KronoRed
08-11-2005, 03:49 PM
I agree with TB, but I'm shocked at these former yankee fan revelations :help:

Blimpie
08-11-2005, 03:52 PM
I have always disliked the Cubs, even way way back when I was a Yankee fan.I'm sorry? but it sounded like you just said: "when I was a Yankee fan"... :eek:

Uhm. Okay. We'll be needing to get that Barbie backpack from you when you have a chance.... ;)

zombie-a-go-go
08-11-2005, 03:52 PM
I asked her to dance, she said "not if you were the last sanitation engineer on earth;" I was crushed, she wore a backward Cubs cap.

Just another story in the naked city.

SteelSD
08-11-2005, 03:54 PM
I hate blaming things on a fan base, but most (not all mind you) of the Cubs fans I've met are really difficult to deal with. When things are going poorly (as usual) they act as if they're more deserving of pity than anyone. But when things are going well? Wow have the guys I've met been apt to turn the most extreme 180-degree attitude adjustment I've ever seen. It's as if I- a Reds fan- must now cater to the illustrious history that club has of winning...well...nothing.

But honestly, it's the team itself (including Baker) that I dislike more than anything else. I dislike their style of play. I dislike the players they put on the field. And I truly despise their manager (who, IMHO, has made himself even MORE dislikable since he left San Fran). Bunch of money. Bunch of pieces. None of them fit. Plenty overrated.

That about covers it. I don't truly "hate" that team. I just REALLY like seeing them lose.

traderumor
08-11-2005, 03:55 PM
I succumbed to peer pressure. My fellow Reds fans hated them, so I followed.

I came up with reasons later, like I hate teams with superstation fan bases. Yea, that's pretty rational. Sammy's hop, Chip and Dip, prior to that Harry Caray, and as if the world revolves around some celeb singing take me out to the ballgame. And the fans showing up at our park when the Cubs are in town just seems like cockroaches coming out of the woodwork after smelling the team roll into town.

I actually started rooting for the pitiful franchise in '84 when there was little joy in Cincinnativille. But, that will not happen again. Take it to the bank :p:

M2
08-11-2005, 03:56 PM
For me hating the Cubs doesn't have anything to do with being a Reds fan, I'd hate the Cubs even if I was a Devil Rays fan. It's how they played up the lovable loser angle for so long. Do you know what being a loverable loser makes you? A loser. They trotted out bad team after bad team after bad team, and for some reason people just ate it up. They expected to lose, and their fans didn't care. They're people who define themselves as losers and smile about it. Ugh. As long as they had Wrigley Field and Haray Caray, who cares about what the actual team does. It seems like so many people aren't fans of Cubs baseball, they're fans of the Cubs brand name, and I just find that really annoying.

I like that one. Sort of like 1990s Braves fans.

westofyou
08-11-2005, 04:02 PM
Before divisional play the Cubs were the Reds opponents on Opening Day 28 times, between 1898 and 1916 the Cubs and Pirates rotated the honor of playing the Reds on their most cherished day and it was a Cubs batter (Johnny Evers) who was the first MLB player to bat at Redland Field in 1912. Doing battle with the Cubs was a tradition that somehow receded in the Astroturf era.

The Cubs have been around long enough to have more than one history. Part of baseballs draw is the deep history of the game and it’s in the Bizarro world of the Cubs that we can find one of the great tragic tales of the game.

“There is a body of tradition to this ball club that holds up in bad years as well as good.”

“Statistics place alone place the Cubs with the kings of baseball, but no amount of statistics, artfully compiled and proudly totaled up, can tell the story of the team that has a hold on the great American Midwest that will never be loosed.”

Ed Burns on the Chicago Cubs in 1948.

Back then Wrigley was filling up every day too... it's not a recent trend, it's more recent that the teams competing.

The Cubs as the season started in 1948 could claim that they had won SIXTEEN of the NL titles, that’s 23%, the Giants also won 23% of the titles, leaving the scraps for the rest of the league to fight over, unfortunately the Reds were one of those teams fighting for the scraps and could only claim 3 NL titles at that moment, but an equal amount of World Series wins as the Cubs with two.

If you like to watch a world turned upside down compare the Reds and the Cubs franchise since the post war glow was still warm on the Northside of the city on the lake.


All Time Franchise History

WINNING PERCENTAGE PCT W ERA G
1 Giants .541 9957 0.16 41231
2 Dodgers .524 9220 0.19 38280
3 Cubs .515 9756 0.01 41773
4 Pirates .511 9183 0.04 40135
5 Cardinals .508 8798 0.00 40187
6 Reds .505 8898 0.01 39316
7 Braves .499 9442 0.03 39975
8 Phillies .467 8586 -.27 40584

Note: does not include Reds American Association Record.


1876-1945
WINNING PERCENTAGE PCT W ERA G
1 Giants .561 5111 0.25 14638
2 Cubs .560 5417 0.25 14734
3 Pirates .537 4668 0.14 13724
4 Reds .494 4114 0.13 13085
5 Dodgers .493 4084 -.01 13437
6 Cardinals .486 3912 -.11 13478
7 Braves .473 4561 -.06 14584
8 Phillies .446 4053 -.45 14897

1946-2004
WINNING PERCENTAGE PCT W ERA G
1 Dodgers .552 5136 0.36 24843
2 Cardinals .526 4886 0.08 26709
3 Braves .526 4881 0.13 25391
4 Giants .521 4846 0.07 26593
5 Reds .515 4784 -.11 26231
6 Phillies .488 4533 -.09 25687
7 Pirates .486 4515 -.06 26411
8 Cubs .467 4339 -.24 27039

Whoa what happened? A .93% drop in winning percentage for the Cubs and .21 climb in that column for the Reds. The Reds is easy to grasp, strong team cultures can last for a few decades and really boost the wins.

However the Cubs drop is unprecedented in both leagues. It’s an incredible run of poor seasons, punctuated with bad decisions made from the offices at the top of Wrigley all the way to the dugout, including abrasive leaders like Durocher or ad-hoc groups like the College of Coaches.

Why such a drop? That itself is a study that could take awhile, but look at the ERA vs the league. A drop from .25 above average to -.24 below average can really take the wind out of the sails of any franchise.

redsfan30
08-11-2005, 04:02 PM
I hate Cubs mainly for the fact that it seems like they have such a "loyal national following."

Bull.

Somebody who turns on WGN and sees the Cubs and thinks it must be cool to go watch a game is not a true fan. A true fan is someone who sticks with the team through thick and thin. Cubs fans are people who just think because they see a game on WGN every now and then, that makes them a true fan. And these are mainly the type that fill up Great American Ball Park and other visiting parks.

It'd be easier to deal with if they filled up other fields with true thick and thin fans....but they don't.

Cyclone792
08-11-2005, 04:16 PM
Maybe I'm meeting the exceptions, but I vastly prefer the pathology of the Cubs fans I've met than the Phillies fans I've known (and often am related to).

M2, I'm relatively neutral on the Cubs. In fact, in 2003 I was rooting for a Cubs/Red Sox World Series because the historian in my would have loved it. When I got Yanks/Marlins, I was thoroughly pissed. I do, however, despise it when Cubs fans seem to infiltrate our home park during Reds/Cubs games here in Cincy, but really the only cure for that is for us to start packing our own house. That way when the pack of Cubs fans attempt to come down for a series, they're either getting bent over by scalpers or aren't able to find a seat.

I did want to highlight what you stated above about Phillies fans too, because I'm guessing most Reds fans haven't had experiences with Phillies fans. If they have had experiences with Phillies fans, the hatred of the Cubs would be minimum compared to that of the Phillies.

Four buddies and I had the utter displeasure of taking in a pair of Reds/Phillies games this past May when the Reds went to Philly. One of my friends had a Kearns jersey on, I wore a Reds cap and for crying out loud you'd think both him and I killed everybody's mother. On five separate occasions I nearly got into a fight with a Phillies fan at the park simply because I had a Reds cap on, and those people would literally swarm around you heckling you as you walked through the park. My buddy with the Kearns jersey tried to take a piss one time, and a Phillies fan followed him into the restroom, then stood outside the stall door banging on it, all the while dropping a barrage of profanities about how much the Reds suck. If you have any type of clothing/cap on representing the visiting team, there's no such thing as watching a simple baseball game in peace; Phillies fans won't let you.

It's no surprise if anyone ever asks me my opinion of Philadelphia that I tell them the city is a complete dump.

M2
08-11-2005, 04:27 PM
Meanwhile, chili and I had a Sox fan buy us a round after Boston swept the Reds in June. Got into a number of cool baseball discussions about the Reds as well (including a number of Sox fans asking if the Reds would be kind enough to deal Adam Dunn to Boston).

corkedbat
08-11-2005, 04:33 PM
I can't speak for anybody else, but for me it's just that every Scrubs fan I've ever met in person has been really easy to hate. :evil:

Falls City Beer
08-11-2005, 04:36 PM
I don't hate the Cubs anymore than any other Reds' opponent, whom I want the home team to crush, defile, and humiliate with infernal repetition.

I'm something of a General Sherman in my Reds' fandom.

corkedbat
08-11-2005, 04:40 PM
I don't hate the Cubs anymore than any other Reds' opponent, whom I want the home team to crush, defile, and humiliate with infernal repetition.

I'm something of a General Sherman in my Reds' fandom.

I want to see them driven before us and hear the lamentations of their Women! :cool:

MWM
08-11-2005, 04:52 PM
;)
I'm something of a General Sherman in my Reds' fandom.

If this is true, it would seem Atlanta would be the team you wanted to see destroyed the most.

Falls City Beer
08-11-2005, 04:52 PM
M2, I'm relatively neutral on the Cubs. In fact, in 2003 I was rooting for a Cubs/Red Sox World Series because the historian in my would have loved it. When I got Yanks/Marlins, I was thoroughly pissed. I do, however, despise it when Cubs fans seem to infiltrate our home park during Reds/Cubs games here in Cincy, but really the only cure for that is for us to start packing our own house. That way when the pack of Cubs fans attempt to come down for a series, they're either getting bent over by scalpers or aren't able to find a seat.

I did want to highlight what you stated above about Phillies fans too, because I'm guessing most Reds fans haven't had experiences with Phillies fans. If they have had experiences with Phillies fans, the hatred of the Cubs would be minimum compared to that of the Phillies.

Four buddies and I had the utter displeasure of taking in a pair of Reds/Phillies games this past May when the Reds went to Philly. One of my friends had a Kearns jersey on, I wore a Reds cap and for crying out loud you'd think both him and I killed everybody's mother. On five separate occasions I nearly got into a fight with a Phillies fan at the park simply because I had a Reds cap on, and those people would literally swarm around you heckling you as you walked through the park. My buddy with the Kearns jersey tried to take a piss one time, and a Phillies fan followed him into the restroom, then stood outside the stall door banging on it, all the while dropping a barrage of profanities about how much the Reds suck. If you have any type of clothing/cap on representing the visiting team, there's no such thing as watching a simple baseball game in peace; Phillies fans won't let you.

It's no surprise if anyone ever asks me my opinion of Philadelphia that I tell them the city is a complete dump.

Philly fans are awful. A bunch of surly, racist, thick-necked white dudes from the suburbs. But don't let them spoil you on an otherwise fairly interesting metro area, vital and cultured. But then, I think Detroit's a cool town. So what do I know? Guess I got a thing for towns that make their own entertainment out of the rubble of their pasts instead of importing them from some corporate nobs.

KronoRed
08-11-2005, 04:58 PM
I don't hate the Cubs anymore than any other Reds' opponent, whom I want the home team to crush, defile, and humiliate with infernal repetition.

I'm something of a General Sherman in my Reds' fandom.

That's the kind of attitude I wish the manager would install in the team :D

Falls City Beer
08-11-2005, 04:59 PM
;)

If this is true, it would seem Atlanta would be the team you wanted to see destroyed the most.

When I grow my summer beard, my wife always complains that I look like this guy.

http://www.library.wisc.edu/etext/WIReader/Images/Big/WER1238-1.jpeg

Roy Tucker
08-11-2005, 05:00 PM
Meanwhile, chili and I had a Sox fan buy us a round after Boston swept the Reds in June. Got into a number of cool baseball discussions about the Reds as well (including a number of Sox fans asking if the Reds would be kind enough to deal Adam Dunn to Boston).
A Sox sweep helped that magnamity I would imagine.

I've had lots of good conversations at Cinergy/GABP with knowledgeable Braves fans, Cardinal fans, Marlins fans, Cleveland fans, and more that I'm forgetting. And actually, some Cubs fans a ways back. But not Cubs fans lately.

Maybe it's just me, but there is a certain decorum one adheres to when at a foreign field, be it baseball, football, hoops, etc. You stand up and cheer for your guys, whoop it up when sonething good happens for your team, and generally behave as a good fan. Most places tolerate that kind of stuff from the opposition (well, maybe not Philly and also I had a bad experience at Candlestick). When foreign fans come to Cincinnati and holler for their team within the boundaries of general decorum, I don't mind it. Well, at least I tolerate it.

When I go to other parks, I try to a.) be a Reds fan and b.) generally behave myself.

Holding up signs disparaging the opponent, calling out their fans, acting like a general dickweed, and loud barking and woofing will increase your odds of ill-will, i.e. finding out *really* fast that you are outnumbered, your buddies have disappeared, and you are backed up against a wall.

Falls City Beer
08-11-2005, 05:19 PM
Speaking of the Cubs, they're really taking Mulder to the woodshed--7-2 right now.

Not that I think the Cubs bullpen will be able to hold the lead.

Still, it's nice to see the Cardinals' "ace" get clubbed (after today's game he should have @ .790 OPS against). This Cardinals squad is just asking to get drubbed in the postseason by Houston or Atlanta.

Here come the Cards, though, right back against Maddux (dude, just retire--this is an ugly legacy).

Sweetstop
08-11-2005, 05:42 PM
I started actively wishing for the Cubs to lose every game after hearing my daughter (who lives off Addison several miles west of Wrigley Field in Chicago, is a huge White Sox fan, plus, happens to work for the Chicago Tribune) talk about how Cubs' fans hover obsessively over the city, her workplace, obviously, and her neighborhood. Being in Chicago during interleague when they played each other I saw firsthand, while driving through Wrigleyville hours after one of the White Sox wins, hordes of Cubs' fans hanging about the bars and streets crying in their bittersweet beers. I really think these people enjoy the camraderie of losing. Go Sox!

knuckler
08-11-2005, 05:51 PM
I "hate" the Cubs because I grew up a Cardinal fan. As the joke goes, "I root for two teams -- the Cardinals and whoever is playing the Cubs". I put "hate" in quotes because I can appreciate any fan who loves baseball and their hometown team.

And then there was the Kyle Farnsworth brawl, Dusty Baker talking trash, blaming a goat for your troubles, pretending to be a small-market team while spending big and hiding revenues in the Tribune machine, scalping tickets to their own fans...

37red
08-11-2005, 06:03 PM
I've always been and will always be a reds fan, but that's mostly because I grew up going to Crosley Field with my dad and grandpa. I've never seen a Cubs-Reds game that I can remember so I can't say that I have first hand knowlege of their over zealous good time. I did see a Cubs-Giants game in Chicago and wore my reds cap of course. Everyone was totally polite and talked general baseball with me. The stadium, in my opinion and never to cross TeamBoone of course, was as fun as going back to Crosley for some real baseball tradition. They honor their players and love their park like walking into the Hall of Fame, which I've also been to. But, I'm not one that likes to go to malls or WalMart either, I'd rather go to small stores in an older part of town.

The feeling that some other city has invaded the home turf must be the main objection. I'm guessing they're the largest contingent of fans from any other team coming into Cincy. How about the Steeler fans, is it the same type thing?

Personally, I like to hate the Dallas Cowboys, the Yankees, Braves, LA Lakers and my old cross town high school team. The first four because I like to pull for under dogs and those few teams dominated and were arrogant at the same time. My high school was always the good guys, so it was ok to take it out on the noisy rivals.

WVRedsFan
08-11-2005, 06:06 PM
I've been to see the Reds in Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Atlanta, and Los Angeles on the road and I respect their home status. I am a guest there. The folks in those cities have always been nice and have been nothing but pleasant, especially in LA. I imagine if I ran around Dodger Stadium with a sign that said "Great American Ballpark West" that it might change their attitude, but I don't. That's one reason I hate them--no respect.

Everywhere you turn, you find a Cub fan who was converted by WGN or the media. The "friendly confines" is highly overrated. An old, old park with lousy views that sits in the middle of a bad neighborhood is not my definition of "quaint." And the fact that 99% of them have never been there (but watching on TV) makes it number two.

Finally, one of my best friends is a Cubs fan. Why? Because of Harry Caray and their caps. Really. He wouldn't know a pop fly from a strikeout about baseball, but they're always on and he likes the caps. That makes three.

wheels
08-11-2005, 06:13 PM
Cubs fans used to elicit no more than an eye roll from me. I guess growing up in Columbus Ohio, and seeing how Buckeyes fans act, nothing less than full armageddon would shock me.

Then, there was the day Junior blew out his shoulder in an attempt to make a diving catch. Cubs fans in right center field were all standing and taunting in unison, calling Junior every name in the book. That day was a real eye opener, and every time I was at Reds-Cubs game, I started to really notice how vile, and boorish they would act.

I've sat around Cards fans numerous times, even during the McGwire push, and it was always enjoyable. They seem to respect the park they're in, and often times I've placed friendly beer bets with them, and exchanged light hearted barbs.

Contrasting the two, it's easy for me to root against the stinking Cubs when they play the Cardinals.

Simply put, their fans don't deserve a winner, and if you believe in karma, you're seeing a mighty fine example of it on the corner of Waveland and Sheffield.

So to answer the question more succinctly M2....It's the fans, it's the fans, it's the fans.

No need to really look further than that.

Oh, yeah, and Ron Santo.

TeamBoone
08-11-2005, 06:18 PM
I agree with TB, but I'm shocked at these former yankee fan revelations :help:


I'm sorry? but it sounded like you just said: "when I was a Yankee fan"... :eek:

Uhm. Okay. We'll be needing to get that Barbie backpack from you when you have a chance.... ;)

Yea, yea... I know. But I am from upstate NY originally. I admitted this once before, but nobody called me on it. I was surprised.

I love baseball, but only got to see the Yanks once a month... a treat for myself and anyone I could drag along with me for the weekend (4-hour drive plus lodging plus food, not to mention the tickets). Mostly, it was my daughter.

When I moved to Cincinnati twelve years ago, one of the first things I did was buy weekend season tickets. Are you kidding me? A major league baseball team in my own back yard! I thought I'd died and gone to heaven!

And, when you go to so many games (plus those I attended when in town on business prior to the move), well, I guess you could say that I became a Reds fan by osmosis. It was impossible not too. Not only that, but as you all now know, I'm not just a Reds fan.... I'm an AVID Reds fan (or is it rabid?).

I'm not sure which is more devoted, a lifelong fan or a convert!

Now, back to the intent of this thread: Adam Dunn said something about the Reds fans getting on him when he threw a ball into the crowd during the Cubs recent visit. He said something like, it would be hard to hit a Reds fan because they were outnumbered so much that it looked like a sea of blue. He then added that probably most of them would be back in their Reds gear after the series ended. I think there's something to that.

guttle11
08-11-2005, 06:20 PM
the whole "Lovable loser's" thing. All Cubs' fans think they are the best fans because they go to the game and support the team even when they lose. Personally I think they are dumb for drinking the Tribune flavored Kool-aid.

I myself want desperately want to go to GABP to another Reds game, but I wont. I dont want to support a team that is content with mediocrity. The Reds dont have to win, just show me that they care and I will go. That's pretty reasonable, but Cubs fans act like they are the all-mighty fans, because they go no matter what. if you want to go, fine, doesn't mean you like your team any more than me.

That is my problem with the Cubs. Thier fans.

Big Klu
08-11-2005, 06:32 PM
I have only two teams that I truly cannot stand--the Cubs and the Cardinals. And it is because of the arrogant attitudes I have seen from their "fans" at our ballpark. (Mets fans are also arrogant at GAB, but there aren't many of them, and I simply dismiss it as being wrongheadedly aligned with anything New York.) The actions of Cubs fans at GAB have already been discussed at some length on this thread. The Cardinals, you might ask? Well, I didn't used to have as much of a problem with them, but lately I have seen on more than one occasion that Cardinals fans can be every bit as cocky at GAB as Cubs fans have been. (Though the Cards have been able to back it up on the field better than the Cubbies have--even though the Cardinals haven't won a Series since 1982.) Last summer, I had a row of Cardinals fans sitting behind me, and they spent much of the game ripping on the Reds, the ballpark, and then (and this one still gets my blood boiling) Joe Nuxhall! One of them had bought a Pepsi at the concession stand, and the souvenir cup featured Nux. They started with comments like, "Who's this clown?", "another Reds loser", "He probably sucked as bad as the rest of their team", and so forth. I turned around and said, "You don't make fun of Joe Nuxhall around here, buddy." One guy started to say something, but I interrupted him and repeated, "You don't make fun of Joe Nuxhall." BTW, the Reds won that game. (The Reds have won every Reds-Cardinals game I have ever been to--I'm 4-0.)

I think that there is a certain etiquette that a visiting fan needs to follow. I have been to ten Reds games where they have been the visiting team--once at Comiskey Park in Chicago, once at Miller Park in Milwaukee, and eight times in Pittsburgh (twice at Three Rivers, and six times at PNC Park). Everytime I have worn a Reds cap and cheered for the Reds, and I have never had any problems with the home fans. Why? Well, I think it is because I am respectful of the home team. I cheer for the Reds, but I don't put down the home team, the ballpark, or the city, and generally don't make an ass of myself. I even enter into conversations about baseball with the other fans--I ask them about certain players, and they ask me things about the Reds, and we generally get along just fine. Fans really don't mind if you root for your team--just don't be a jerk about it. This is where Cubs fans (and in my experience, Cardinals fans) have crossed the line at GAB.

Of course, the two managers I dislike the most are Dusty Baker (even in San Francisco) and Tony LaRussa (all the way back to his Oakland days), so that makes it even easier to hate the Cubbies and Cards.

Falls City Beer
08-11-2005, 06:38 PM
I have only two teams that I truly cannot stand--the Cubs and the Cardinals. And it is because of the arrogant attitudes I have seen from their "fans" at our ballpark. (Mets fans are also arrogant at GAB, but there aren't many of them, and I simply dismiss it as being wrongheadedly aligned with anything New York.) The actions of Cubs fans at GAB have already been discussed at some length on this thread. The Cardinals, you might ask? Well, I have seen on more than one occasion that Cardinals fans can be every bit as cocky at GAB as Cubs fans have been. (Though the Cards have been able to back it up on the field better than the Cubbies have--even though the Cardinals haven't won a Series since 1982.) Last summer, I had a row of Cardinals fans sitting behind me, and they spent much of the game ripping on the Reds, the ballpark, and then (and this one still gets my blood boiling) Joe Nuxhall! One of them had bought a Pepsi at the concession stand, and the souvenir cup featured Nux. They started with comments like, "Who's this clown?", "another Reds loser", "He probably sucked as bad as the rest of their team", and so forth. I turned around and said, "You don't make fun of Joe Nuxhall around here, buddy." One guy started to say something, but I interrupted him and repeated, "You don't make fun of Joe Nuxhall." BTW, the Reds won that game. (The Reds have won every Reds-Cardinals game I have ever been to--I'm 4-0.)

I think that there is a certain etiquette that a visiting fan needs to follow. I have been to ten Reds games where they have been the visiting team--once at Comiskey Park in Chicago, once at Miller Park in Milwaukee, and eight times in Pittsburgh (twice at Three Rivers, and six times at PNC Park). Everytime I have worn a Reds cap and cheered for the Reds, and I have never had any problems with the home fans. Why? Well, I think it is because I am respectful of the home team. I cheer for the Reds, but I don't put down the home team, the ballpark, or the city, and generally don't make an ass of myself. I even enter into conversations about baseball with the other fans--I ask them about certain players, and they ask me things about the Reds, and we generally get along just fine. Fans really don't mind if you root for your team--just don't be a jerk about it. This is where Cubs fans (and in my experience, Cardinals fans) have crossed the line at GAB.

Having lived in St. Louis for two years, I can attest to this attitude--I'm afraid I don't see the magnanimity that so many on here have seen from their fans.

BoydsOfSummer
08-11-2005, 06:41 PM
Cubs fans used to elicit no more than an eye roll from me. I guess growing up in Columbus Ohio, and seeing how Buckeyes fans act, nothing less than full armageddon would shock me.

Then, there was the day Junior blew out his shoulder in an attempt to make a diving catch. Cubs fans in right center field were all standing and taunting in unison, calling Junior every name in the book. That day was a real eye opener, and every time I was at Reds-Cubs game, I started to really notice how vile, and boorish they would act.

I've sat around Cards fans numerous times, even during the McGwire push, and it was always enjoyable. They seem to respect the park they're in, and often times I've placed friendly beer bets with them, and exchanged light hearted barbs.

Contrasting the two, it's easy for me to root against the stinking Cubs when they play the Cardinals.

Simply put, their fans don't deserve a winner, and if you believe in karma, you're seeing a mighty fine example of it on the corner of Waveland and Sheffield.

So to answer the question more succinctly M2....It's the fans, it's the fans, it's the fans.

No need to really look further than that.

Oh, yeah, and Ron Santo.


That sums it up for me fairly well also. I was at that game when Junior went down too, I was sitting out there in the sun deck with those ass-wookies. It almost got problematic.

There has always been a strong Cub following, but it seems within the last few years it's grown larger and dumber/more obnoxious. They invade other parks too,I see the same type dipsticks on other broadcasts annoying the locals.

Yachtzee
08-11-2005, 07:01 PM
I've never had problems with Cubs fans personally. In fact, I married one. :) The ones I know are very personable and knowledgeable about their team. Now I do know that a lot of Chicagoans send their kids to one Miami University, so that might also explain why the Cubs get such a good turn out at GABP. Compared to Browns fans and Phillies fans, Cubs fans are a pleasure to be around. And if you want to talk insufferable, wait till you hear a Yankees fan spend five minutes complaining about their bullpen or their guys not hitting or how, heaven forbid, they aren't in their rightful place at the top of the standings. I would put the Browns, Yankees and Braves at the top of my list for teams I hate because of their fans. I put the Braves in there because they win all the time and yet their fans are so spoiled, they can't even sell out their playoff games.

RFS62
08-11-2005, 07:20 PM
It just seems so right.

Big Klu
08-11-2005, 07:24 PM
I've never had problems with Cubs fans personally. In fact, I married one. :) The ones I know are very personable and knowledgeable about their team. Now I do know that a lot of Chicagoans send their kids to one Miami University, so that might also explain why the Cubs get such a good turn out at GABP. Compared to Browns fans and Phillies fans, Cubs fans are a pleasure to be around. And if you want to talk insufferable, wait till you hear a Yankees fan spend five minutes complaining about their bullpen or their guys not hitting or how, heaven forbid, they aren't in their rightful place at the top of the standings. I would put the Browns, Yankees and Braves at the top of my list for teams I hate because of their fans. I put the Braves in there because they win all the time and yet their fans are so spoiled, they can't even sell out their playoff games.

Yet another reason to hate Miami University!

GO BOBCATS!!

Johnny Vander m
08-11-2005, 07:32 PM
I have never been to Wrigley but hate the Cubs and the Braves, all fair weather fans imo. But the best fans at visiting ball parks are St Louis, been there many times, wearing Red's gear, always treated very nice, of course I behaved my self and didn't show my ass. Also have been treated very nice at Turner Field, Astrodome and Three Rivers. The main reason I hate the Cubs so much is their TV announcers over the years and now Ron Santo on radio. Hate the Braves fans because living here in the south is all you hear, they don't know didley crap about baseball but think they do. Bandwagon fans.

M2
08-11-2005, 07:42 PM
Klu, I can't blame Cardinals for being cocky. They should be. Fate's been incredibly kind to them. Until the last five years I could sympathize. From 1972 (when I started watching baseball) trough 2000 being a Reds fan was a pretty sweet deal, except for that 1982-84 interlude.

Anyway, I imagine Cardinals fans view the Reds as a baseball third world these days. So at times I'm sure Birds fans at the GAB are a lot like ugly Americanism on display in Juarez. It's the cruelty exuded by those who've never known true pain.

Falls City Beer
08-11-2005, 08:13 PM
Klu, I can't blame Cardinals for being cocky. They should be. Fate's been incredibly kind to them. Until the last five years I could sympathize. From 1972 (when I started watching baseball) trough 2000 being a Reds fan was a pretty sweet deal, except for that 1982-84 interlude.

Anyway, I imagine Cardinals fans view the Reds as a baseball third world these days. So at times I'm sure Birds fans at the GAB are a lot like ugly Americanism on display in Juarez. It's the cruelty exuded by those who've never known true pain.

But aside from '96, the Cards bit arse in the 90s. And I lived there from 97-99 (pretty lean years) and they still thought their crap didn't stink. A real sense of entitlement. They'll stink it up again for another decade down the road (as they did in the 50s, 70s and 90s)--and still act in the same imperious manner I'm sure. Let's not forget, they're working on 25 years without a world title.

4256 Hits
08-11-2005, 09:12 PM
Harry Carey is one of the big reasons for me. Growing up I didn't get to watch the Reds much on TV, a Ft. Wayne TV station carried the Cubs so when they played to Reds I got to watch them. After awhile I just hated listening to him (when I watched by myself I turned volume off but hard to do w/ two older bothers) he was way to much of a homer and spent a large part talking about "fans" that were stands today and fans that had birthdays. Of course I grew up w/ the drunk crazy Carey I hear he was better before he got old and drunk.

RFS62
08-11-2005, 09:21 PM
Harry was incredible back in the day. When he was with the Cardinals, I would listen to their games just to listen to him.

He was a cartoon of his old self in his final days.

Big Klu
08-11-2005, 10:01 PM
Harry Carey is one of the big reasons for me. Growing up I didn't get to watch the Reds much on TV, a Ft. Wayne TV station carried the Cubs so when they played to Reds I got to watch them. After awhile I just hated listening to him (when I watched by myself I turned volume off but hard to do w/ two older bothers) he was way to much of a homer and spent a large part talking about "fans" that were stands today and fans that had birthdays. Of course I grew up w/ the drunk crazy Carey I hear he was better before he got old and drunk.


"Hey! Homer and Ethel Robinson from Davenport, Iowa are here at the ballpark today! They're big Cubs fans! And Elmer Johnson from Lagrange, Illinois is celebrating his 86th birthday! This Bud's for you, Elmer!"

4256 Hits
08-11-2005, 10:19 PM
"Hey! Homer and Ethel Robinson from Davenport, Iowa are here at the ballpark today! They're big Cubs fans! And Elmer Johnson from Lagrange, Illinois is celebrating his 86th birthday! This Bud's for you, Elmer!"

:laugh: :laugh: That sounds like an exact quote from one of the games!

Red in Chicago
08-11-2005, 10:20 PM
harry was the best :thumbup:

M2
08-11-2005, 10:30 PM
But aside from '96, the Cards bit arse in the 90s. And I lived there from 97-99 (pretty lean years) and they still thought their crap didn't stink. A real sense of entitlement. They'll stink it up again for another decade down the road (as they did in the 50s, 70s and 90s)--and still act in the same imperious manner I'm sure. Let's not forget, they're working on 25 years without a world title.

I don't know, those Lankford/Gilkey/Jose teams from the early '90s were kind of fun to watch, a real hit and squad. Everyone's lean years should be that diverting. I'm guessing Birds fans made it through 97-99 by paying attention to Mac and nothing but Mac.

RFS62
08-11-2005, 10:54 PM
It's the fans. Cubs fans taking over the GAB and acting all obnoxious.

Yuppie dingleberries blaming their misery on a goat.

Mainspark
08-11-2005, 11:10 PM
I think to some degree that intense dislike of Cubs fans dates back to the mid-1980s, when the team began to enjoy some moderate (although nothing approaching ultimate) success.
Being a Cubs fan became an in-thing among Yuppies of that period, at least here in the Midwest.
It was extremely irritating (to Reds and Cardinals fans, and probably even to longtime Cubs fans) to hear these novices suddenly "talking baseball" as though they were veteran observers of the game, even though their knowledge was limited to what they had learned from listening to Steve Stone.
As a result, Ryno was the greatest player of all time; Sutcliffe was the greatest pitcher of all time, etc.

LoganBuck
08-11-2005, 11:26 PM
My active dislike of the Cubs began when I recieved my first baseball glove from my Grandfather when I was getting ready to start T-Ball. My maternal Grandfather was a diehard Reds fan and at the time was very fond of Buddy Bell. He got me a Wilson Ballhawk model glove, with a Buddy Bell signature in the pocket. It is such a good glove that I used it for at least 4 years, my brother (12 years younger than me) used it for 3 years and my son (currently three years old) will probably use it when he starts T-Ball. My Father's family is pure Cubs. They live and die cubs. My paternal Grandparents would routinely go to Arizona for spring training. My father is one of 13 children. They mostly have large families as well. Other than my brother, and one cousin. The rest are Cubs fans.

I remember being so proud of my glove and going to play ball with my cousins for the first time, and them just belittling Buddy Bell. I didn't understand why they were doing it, I was just 5 years old. As I grew I spent lots of time with my maternal Grandfather. I became a huge fan of Eric Davis and Barry Larkin. I had a shirt that featured both of them around 1989 and my cousins started in on me about how Jerome Walton and Shawn Dunston were far superior players. I went home and pulled out my baseball cards and looked at the stats and the truth began to dawn on me- Cubs fans are just stupid.

I have 4 cousins that are within a year of my age. The other Reds fan and 3 Cubs fans. We were all in college during Sosa and McGuire's chase for the record. We saw Sosa's 60th, in an improbable Cubs comeback against the Brewers. After the game, my cousins wanted to go down to the players entrance and I said what the heck. They stood around like some slobbering kids. The great Cubs. Henry Rodriguez walked by the fans and said "We do it all for you" and the fans were literally moved to tears. My other Reds compatriot, and I just looked at each other and I think I threw up in my mouth.

I revelled in the glory of that series during the last week of last season, as my relatives blamed the Reds for the Cubs implosion. According to them the Reds played dirty. I can't underscore how much I loved watching them bellyache about their poor Cubs.

MartyFan
08-11-2005, 11:35 PM
For me personally, I don't hate the Cubs...I love the city of chicago but I hate the Cub fans who raise them hig when their team has not won for generations...overall their team has sucked wors than any other team in the league and their fans act like they are the Yankees.

SteelSD
08-12-2005, 12:02 AM
Ok. I want to change my answer.

I do hate the Cubs.

And I hate them because of this little guy:

http://www.sportslogos.net/images/Baseball/MLB/CHI_696.gif

Cubbie Bear stinks. Stylized Cubbie Bear stinks even more.

Aww...look at him...he's sooooooo cute...look at little Cubbie Bear and his cute widdle nose.

Mr. Red needs to grab a Braves tomahawk and just chop that sissy little baby bear to bits. Even worse, in 1997, the Cubs decided that the following image was far more formidable:

http://www.sportslogos.net/images/Baseball/MLB/CHI_691.gif

Now, let's start with the fact that the white stripe on the little guy's back makes him look like he has a flipped-up monkey tail. That's just stupid. He's a baby bear, not a monkey. Of course, whether he's a baby bear or a monkey makes little difference to me except for the fact that baby bears should not evoke images of adult monkeys. It's an aside. It annoys me, but it still has nothing to do with anything.

What DOES have something to do with it is the obvious move toward pandering to the growing flock of young women who attend games at Wrigley for no other reason than to tan. "Ohhhh....look at the baby bear...awwww...so sweet...can you rub some lotion on my shoulders?"

Now, I have NO problem with hot 20-somethings having lotion rubbed on their lithe tan bodies. In fact, I like that. Really, I do. But I can guarantee that if you asked the VAST majority of these chicks what the "count" is, they'd grab their boyfriend's wallet and start by naming the first bill denomination they see and then get confused when the whole "math" thing kicks in when they find greenback number two.

In short, cute little cuddly baby bear Cubbie logo promotes skin- which is good. But it doesn't promote lapdances for the most part- which is bad. And, worst of all, it means that if I grab a seat in Wrigley to watch a Cubs/Reds game I have a far higher probability of sitting next to a truly stupid person and, even more heinous, that stupid person is most likely going to be pulling my attention from the game. Of course, those chicks are also the same ones who after seeing my wedding ring will ask, "Are your married?", and accept "No." as a truthful response. But I digress...

Furthermore, the current version of Cubbie Bear doesn't really look mad (he's meant to I think). I recall an answer to an obvious question and that answer centers around whether or not a bear you-know-what's in the woods. Well, it doesn't appear that this version of Cubbie Bear can. It just looks like he's either too darn constipated or that his stupid monkey tail is preventing him from doing his "business" so he's grumpy about having to walk out of the woods to drop trau. I do hope the little tyke finds his way out of the woods though and I hope that passers-by decide to ignore the "Don't Feed The Bears" signs. But I hope that the feeding they give this plugged-up bear runt consists of healthy doses of Milk of Magnesia or, at minimum, a few bottles of Metamucil.

Really, Cubbie Bear in all of his various forms is stupid. He's a baby bear. What's he going to do to you? Call his mommy??? Invoke a real bear to beat a fan sensless who had the audacity to not see Moises Alou running toward the wall while trying to catch a foul ball Alou couldn't get to in the playoffs? No. The baby bear will whine and cry (which kinda' sums up the Cubs franchise) and I can guarantee that a little baby bear would find the following guy REALLY scary:

http://www.sportslogos.net/images/Baseball/MLB/CIN_707.gif

Dude. That is the John Wayne Gacy of baseball logos. There isn't a non-Reds fan who could have possibly made it through the 1960's without nightmares after seeing that image. LOOK AT THE EYES!!! Little kids who came to games and weren't cheering for the Reds HAD to be scared that Mr. Red was hiding in their closet or under the bed. No one has ever been scared that an infant bear was concealed within their room after dark. What's the little tike gonna do? Threaten you with massive cuddling and face licks??

Freakin' guy is running around with a big ol' piece of lumber just waiting to smash baby Cubbie bear in the head. If he misses, he'll just maul the helpless little guy with his razor-sharp spikes. It's an image of terror really. Try to rub suntan lotion on your shoulders with him watching? Nah, because if you don't respect the game he'll just maul you...like a real bear would...not a baby Cubbie bear.

So there. I do hate the Cubs. I hate the Cubs because their logos have traditionally been stupid. Their fan base is getting dumber because of it (although also more attractive) and they're cruel to plugged-up animals who can't take a dump in the woods.

I really don't think there's any way to argue with that reasoning.

LoganBuck
08-12-2005, 12:14 AM
Ok. I want to change my answer.

I do hate the Cubs.

And I hate them because of this little guy:

http://www.sportslogos.net/images/Baseball/MLB/CHI_696.gif

Cubbie Bear stinks. Stylized Cubbie Bear stinks even more.

Aww...look at him...he's sooooooo cute...look at little Cubbie Bear and his cute widdle nose.

Mr. Red needs to grab a Braves tomahawk and just chop that sissy little baby bear to bits. Even worse, in 1997, the Cubs decided that the following image was far more formidable:

http://www.sportslogos.net/images/Baseball/MLB/CHI_691.gif

Now, let's start with the fact that the white stripe on the little guy's back makes him look like he has a flipped-up monkey tail. That's just stupid. He's a baby bear, not a monkey. Of course, whether he's a baby bear or a monkey makes little difference to me except for the fact that baby bears should not evoke images of adult monkeys. It's an aside. It annoys me, but it still has nothing to do with anything.

What DOES have something to do with it is the obvious move toward pandering to the growing flock of young women who attend games at Wrigley for no other reason than to tan. "Ohhhh....look at the baby bear...awwww...so sweet...can you rub some lotion on my shoulders?"

Now, I have NO problem with hot 20-somethings having lotion rubbed on their lithe tan bodies. In fact, I like that. Really, I do. But I can guarantee that if you asked the VAST majority of these chicks what the "count" is, they'd grab their boyfriend's wallet and start by naming the first bill denomination they see and then get confused when the whole "math" thing kicks in when they find greenback number two.

In short, cute little cuddly baby bear Cubbie logo promotes skin- which is good. But it doesn't promote lapdances for the most part- which is bad. And, worst of all, it means that if I grab a seat in Wrigley to watch a Cubs/Reds game I have a far higher probability of sitting next to a truly stupid person and, even more heinous, that stupid person is most likely going to be pulling my attention from the game. Of course, those chicks are also the same ones who after seeing my wedding ring will ask, "Are your married?", and accept "No." as a truthful response. But I digress...

Furthermore, the current version of Cubbie Bear doesn't really look mad (he's meant to I think). I recall an answer to an obvious question and that answer centers around whether or not a bear you-know-what's in the woods. Well, it doesn't appear that this version of Cubbie Bear can. It just looks like he's either too darn constipated or that his stupid monkey tail is preventing him from doing his "business" so he's grumpy about having to walk out of the woods to drop trau. I do hope the little tyke finds his way out of the woods though and I hope that passers-by decide to ignore the "Don't Feed The Bears" signs. But I hope that the feeding they give this plugged-up bear runt consists of healthy doses of Milk of Magnesia or, at minimum, a few bottles of Metamucil.

Really, Cubbie Bear in all of his various forms is stupid. He's a baby bear. What's he going to do to you? Call his mommy??? Invoke a real bear to beat a fan sensless who had the audacity to not see Moises Alou running toward the wall while trying to catch a foul ball Alou couldn't get to in the playoffs? No. The baby bear will whine and cry (which kinda' sums up the Cubs franchise) and I can guarantee that a little baby bear would find the following guy REALLY scary:

http://www.sportslogos.net/images/Baseball/MLB/CIN_707.gif

Dude. That is the John Wayne Gacy of baseball logos. There isn't a non-Reds fan who could have possibly made it through the 1960's without nightmares after seeing that image. LOOK AT THE EYES!!! Little kids who came to games and weren't cheering for the Reds HAD to be scared that Mr. Red was hiding in their closet or under the bed. No one has ever been scared that an infant bear was concealed within their room after dark. What's the little tike gonna do? Threaten you with massive cuddling and face licks??

Freakin' guy is running around with a big ol' piece of lumber just waiting to smash baby Cubbie bear in the head. If he misses, he'll just maul the helpless little guy with his razor-sharp spikes. It's an image of terror really. Try to rub suntan lotion on your shoulders with him watching? Nah, because if you don't respect the game he'll just maul you...like a real bear would...not a baby Cubbie bear.

So there. I do hate the Cubs. I hate the Cubs because their logos have traditionally been stupid. Their fan base is getting dumber because of it (although also more attractive) and they're cruel to plugged-up animals who can't take a dump in the woods.

I really don't think there's any way to argue with that reasoning.

Darn it Steel, you made me laugh out loud and I woke the baby!

KronoRed
08-12-2005, 12:27 AM
Teach the baby young to blame the cubs ;)

WMR
08-12-2005, 04:55 AM
Cubs fans are utterly obnoxious. (by-and-large)

TeamCasey
08-12-2005, 07:00 AM
Dusty Baker.

I read a bit about folk's experiences with Cubs fans at the park. I've had more sparring matches with Braves fans at GAB, most in good humor. (Could be that I haven't been to many Cubs games.)

michst
08-12-2005, 08:04 AM
I think its the whole attitude of people from Chicago and their general attitude towards Cincinnati in general. They always have this air like - we're from Chicago you know the great Midwestern Cosmopolitan City, while you're from nice quaint little Cincinnati. The funny thing is most of them live an hour or more away from Chicago and probably go into the City only when guests arrive.

GAC
08-12-2005, 08:36 AM
Their announcers - the manager - Sammy Sosa (even though he is now gone).

Year before last's Redszone gathering, SC gave a few of them heck when they came into the Westin prior to the game. It was quite enjoying. :lol:

Stewie
08-12-2005, 10:10 AM
I did want to highlight what you stated above about Phillies fans too, because I'm guessing most Reds fans haven't had experiences with Phillies fans. If they have had experiences with Phillies fans, the hatred of the Cubs would be minimum compared to that of the Phillies.

Four buddies and I had the utter displeasure of taking in a pair of Reds/Phillies games this past May when the Reds went to Philly. One of my friends had a Kearns jersey on, I wore a Reds cap and for crying out loud you'd think both him and I killed everybody's mother. On five separate occasions I nearly got into a fight with a Phillies fan at the park simply because I had a Reds cap on, and those people would literally swarm around you heckling you as you walked through the park. My buddy with the Kearns jersey tried to take a piss one time, and a Phillies fan followed him into the restroom, then stood outside the stall door banging on it, all the while dropping a barrage of profanities about how much the Reds suck. If you have any type of clothing/cap on representing the visiting team, there's no such thing as watching a simple baseball game in peace; Phillies fans won't let you.

It's no surprise if anyone ever asks me my opinion of Philadelphia that I tell them the city is a complete dump.


Oddly enough, I had a similar experience the last time I was at GAB. I had on a Bobby Abreu jersey and had to spend the entire game listening to several groups of people throughout my section tell me how much Abreu and the Phillies in general suck. I'm extremely laid back, so I pretty much just did my best to ignore the people yelling at me, but it did get annoying after awhile, when all I wanted to do was watch the game with my friends in peace. Walking out through the concourse after Jose Mesa's pathetic attempt to hold onto the lead in the 9th wasn't a joy, either.

Now with that said, I despise the "typical Phillies fan" probably more than anyone here. Most Phillies fans aren't like That Guy (the one who seems to get off on the reputation around the country of being an obnoxious jerk), but since That Guy is sooo loud, sooo annoying, and sooo obnoxious, it seems to overshadow the more normal ones. I really am sorry you had to deal with several people who were That Guy.

To get back to the Cubs, I never had a problem with them really until I had to deal with their fans at a game in CBP last year. Having lived in Philly as long as I had (before moving a couple weeks ago), and having gone to as many games as I have, I have seen my fair share of fans being stupid. However, the behavior of a large portion of Cubs (not all, of course, but a lot) fans on that day ranks right up there with some of the worst I have seen from our fans here (the drunk Cubs fan who pushed my girlfriend out of the way so that he could get a better angle to heckle HIS OWN TEAM'S BULLPEN quickly comes to mind). Plus, I don't like Dusty Baker.

Chip R
08-12-2005, 04:53 PM
I hate blaming things on a fan base, but most (not all mind you) of the Cubs fans I've met are really difficult to deal with. When things are going poorly (as usual) they act as if they're more deserving of pity than anyone. But when things are going well? Wow have the guys I've met been apt to turn the most extreme 180-degree attitude adjustment I've ever seen. It's as if I- a Reds fan- must now cater to the illustrious history that club has of winning...well...nothing.

But honestly, it's the team itself (including Baker) that I dislike more than anything else. I dislike their style of play. I dislike the players they put on the field. And I truly despise their manager (who, IMHO, has made himself even MORE dislikable since he left San Fran). Bunch of money. Bunch of pieces. None of them fit. Plenty overrated.

That about covers it. I don't truly "hate" that team. I just REALLY like seeing them lose.
I think that about covers it for me. It bothers me a little that they take over our park but I have been to Reds games in Wrigley in the mid 90s when there were just as much red there as there was blue. If people are bothered by the out of towners coming in and taking over, go to the freaking games! But I really haven't hated them until Big Dust took over. It was more like pity until then. I was excited when they started getting good back in the mid 80s. I rooted for them when they got in the playoffs. But when I could, I listened to them on the radio and ever since they started getting good their radio guys have treated the Reds - and most other opposing teams with thinly veiled contempt. I don't mind rooting for your own team but at least respect your opponents. For all his homeristic tendancies, Harry Carey was never like that. I remember every time Barry Larkin would come up in a clutch situation, he'd say with fear in his voice, "There's that man again."

But in the past few years the whole organization's - and their fans' - arrogance has really gotten out of control. Dusty blames their problems on everybody but the players and himself. I didn't notice it when he was in S.F. since they were out of general media range then.

WVRed
08-12-2005, 05:03 PM
I think theres a reason why the Cubs are called the "lovable losers". Everybody loves seeing them lose.

M2
08-12-2005, 06:01 PM
In short, cute little cuddly baby bear Cubbie logo promotes skin- which is good. But it doesn't promote lapdances for the most part- which is bad.

Well that swings my vote.

GAC
08-13-2005, 05:55 AM
I learned to like them alot less earlier in the year and the beaning incidents involving Carlos Zambrano. He's a hot headed punk. Same with Kerry Woods.

CougarQuest
08-13-2005, 02:29 PM
All one has to do to understand is attend any game in GAB when the Reds are playing the Cubs. It's the obnoxious "fans".

I couldn't imagine a Reds fan acting like that in their home. ACT LIKE YOU HAVE SOME COMMON DECENCY IN OUR HOME.

Dusty Baker and his mouth would be 2nd. Albeit a distant 2nd, but none the less a valid enough reason to dislike the Cubs.

Jpup
08-13-2005, 03:14 PM
Cubs "fans", Steve Stone, Sammy Sosa, and overexposure by the media.

vaticanplum
04-04-2007, 09:14 PM
I thought it was an appropriate time to bump this thread.

The first time I ever came across Redszone was when I was looking for an answer to a question I had about Eric Davis. I did a search for his name, and because he's referenced in this thread, this was the first thread that came up at the time. This thread is really the entire reason I stayed.

"Mr. Red needs to grab a Braves tomahawk and just chop that sissy little baby bear to bits..." may, in fact, be my favorite baseball-related sentiment ever.

redsfan30
04-04-2007, 09:19 PM
I hate thier "fans", not the team itself.

dougdirt
04-04-2007, 09:22 PM
I hate them because they just had a 2 run single in Cincinnati and the stadium went nuts because there are probably 10,000 Cubs "fans" there.

redsfan30
04-04-2007, 09:26 PM
I kid you not....you can't make this up.

I bought the Power Pack last year and on Opening Day a Cubs "fan" was sitting in front of me. The next game in the pack in late May, the same guy was a Reds fan, pulling hard for the Reds.

You wonder why I put fans in " "s.

dougdirt
04-04-2007, 09:46 PM
I kid you not....you can't make this up.

I bought the Power Pack last year and on Opening Day a Cubs "fan" was sitting in front of me. The next game in the pack in late May, the same guy was a Reds fan, pulling hard for the Reds.

You wonder why I put fans in " "s.

Wow.

harangatang
04-04-2007, 09:53 PM
If we as Reds fans should hate anyone it should be the Brewers. The Brewers always seem to step up and play spoiler when the Reds have any chance of success.

westofyou
04-04-2007, 10:13 PM
Cubs fans are like those sad clown crying paintings, kitschy... but better off left on the floor in the basement.

Always Red
04-04-2007, 10:35 PM
I hate Cubs fans because most of them know nothing at all about baseball, other than how to drink vast quantities of beer. OK, they have one redeeming quality.

I lived in Chicago, a mile away from Wrigley, for 4 and a half years during the late 80's. I never could warm up to the stinkin Cubs, but I did become a White Sox fan. Sox fans in Chicago are a lot like west side folks in Cincinnati- salt of the earth types. Cubs games were all about being there and being seen. White Sox games and fans were a lot more substance- plus, I absolutely loved seeing some games at old Comiskey before they tore it down and built the sterile operating room across the street.

OldRightHander
04-04-2007, 10:53 PM
I have always felt some sort of sympathy toward the team, or more precisely the idea that it's been so long since they've won it all, but that sympathy doesn't extend toward some of the fans I have had the pleasure of meeting down here. That said, I can't really bring myself to hate the team the same way I dislike the Yankees or the Braves. I don't know why, I just don't have it in me.

Here's one thing that doesn't make sense to me about their fans though. They pack that darn ballpark day in and day out, even if their beloved Cubbies are 1000 games out at the All Star break. Now I understand the whole idea of the "Wrigley Field experience", but I can't see how the locals would spend their hard earned money with no thought to how the team is playing on the field. What kind of message does that send to the front office? If you know people are going to consume your product regardless of the quality, where is the incentive to improve? I'm not what I would call a fair weather or bandwagon fan, but I think that I'm like most Reds fans in that I will attend a lot more games if they're winning than if they're losing, no matter how much I like the ballpark they play in. If it weren't for the "Wrigley Field experience", the Cubs might have won a championship or two in the last half century.

dougdirt
04-04-2007, 10:59 PM
I have always felt some sort of sympathy toward the team, or more precisely the idea that it's been so long since they've won it all, but that sympathy doesn't extend toward some of the fans I have had the pleasure of meeting down here. That said, I can't really bring myself to hate the team the same way I dislike the Yankees or the Braves. I don't know why, I just don't have it in me.

Here's one thing that doesn't make sense to me about their fans though. They pack that darn ballpark day in and day out, even if their beloved Cubbies are 1000 games out at the All Star break. Now I understand the whole idea of the "Wrigley Field experience", but I can't see how the locals would spend their hard earned money with no thought to how the team is playing on the field. What kind of message does that send to the front office? If you know people are going to consume your product regardless of the quality, where is the incentive to improve? I'm not what I would call a fair weather or bandwagon fan, but I think that I'm like most Reds fans in that I will attend a lot more games if they're winning than if they're losing, no matter how much I like the ballpark they play in. If it weren't for the "Wrigley Field experience", the Cubs might have won a championship or two in the last half century.

Its hard to not pack the house when your city has 15 million people and your stadium holds 38,0000 (just a guess here).

SirFelixCat
04-04-2007, 11:14 PM
I hate the Cubs more than any other team in any other sport. Blame their fans for this.

I think I have met 2 Cubs fans who were not jerks. Seriously.

If you have any doubts as to my hatred of the Cubs, ask anyone who was at the 'Zone gathering 3 years ago. I boo'd and hiss'd every fan at the watering hole we were at.

I despise the Cubs...I mean, I honestly think I hate the Cubs more than the Commies in 1980.

TeamBoone
04-04-2007, 11:48 PM
If we as Reds fans should hate anyone it should be the Brewers. The Brewers always seem to step up and play spoiler when the Reds have any chance of success.

If I remember correctly (I don't fell like looking it up), the Reds got 'em last year.

15fan
04-05-2007, 08:48 PM
Former Cubs broadcaster Harry Caray was one of my all-time heroes. The guy spent an entire career drinking beer, unabashadly rooting for his team and leading the entire ballpark in singing "Take Me Out to the Ball Game." When it was his time to check out, he did it out dancing with his wife.

If that's not living the American dream, I don't know what is.

FWIW the Cubs fans are among the more annoying fans here in the ATL, too.

Henry Clay
04-05-2007, 10:06 PM
I think it is a fan thing based on proximity and opposing fan turnout. Although I usually enjoy watching a game with an out-of-town fan of the visiting team (and have seen the same effect when I've been the out-of-towner elsewhere), there is something different when the out-of-towners and opposing fans show up in droves and make the home park feel like the vistors' stadium. I got that feeling last year when I came to town in Reds' gear to see Arroyo's first game in the home park. I couldn't believe the numbers and noise level of the Cubs' fans in GABP. I enjoyed it when they were silenced by the Reds' win, which is something I haven't felt even when I went to watch the Reds live when they were on the road (even in Philly!).

RedFanAlways1966
04-05-2007, 10:17 PM
If I remember correctly (I don't fell like looking it up), the Reds got 'em last year.

Nope, wasn't last year. The REDS were 46-38 vs. the NL Central. However, they had losing records against two teams (9-10 record against each of them). Those teams were the Cubs & the Brewers.

In 2005 the REDS went 6-10 vs. the Brewers (9-6 vs. Cubs).

The REDS did have a winning record vs. the Brewers in 2004 at 10-8.

KySteveH
04-05-2007, 11:57 PM
I hate the Cubs more than any other team in any other sport. Blame their fans for this.

I think I have met 2 Cubs fans who were not jerks. Seriously.

If you have any doubts as to my hatred of the Cubs, ask anyone who was at the 'Zone gathering 3 years ago. I boo'd and hiss'd every fan at the watering hole we were at.

I despise the Cubs...I mean, I honestly think I hate the Cubs more than the Commies in 1980.

Sat in front of a herd of mouth-breathing Cub fans today. Ordinarily, taking one on the chin tends to shut the visiting fans up a little, but I guess that doesn't apply to these nimrods. I used to think that sitting in the higher-priced seats would keep me further away from the idiots, but it doesn't seem to matter.

Jpup
04-06-2007, 04:11 AM
I hate the scrubs and their "fans." I will rejoice when their bloated payroll and big mouths finish in last place.

GAC
04-06-2007, 07:13 AM
Some have already mentioned the Cub fans at GABP. I have no problem with opposing team's fans, except when they demonstrate arrogance in your own backyard. It's this "we're not only gonna beat you in your own home, but then rub it in your faces afterwards." And yes, I've witnessed it in the past while down there.

But here is the main reason why I hate the Cubs....

http://www.chicagobarproject.com/Reviews/WrigleyField/WrigleyCarayStone.jpg

One of the things I always liked abut Marty & Joe was they weren't afraid to air it out on their own team and speak their minds when it came to that product on the field. Now many may not have always agreed with some of the things they said, but they spoke their minds. I liked that.

Harry and Steve (WGN) made me sick to watch/listen to them. They showed very little objectivity when it was required during game time situations. Whenever their Cubs were down or didn't get a call their way, the sob stories and excuses they offered turned my stomach.... their poor, poor, Cubs just can't get a break. Everyone was out to get them.

And they had no problem talking down/making light of other teams, and any player controversies/stories that may have existed, and loved to put their two-cents worth in. But they wouldn't touch/criticize a Cub player in a similar situation (ex- Sosa).

And when Stone finally did say something that didn't go over well.... he was gone from the broadcasting booth.

And don't get me started on tooth pick chewing Dusty Baker. But I cared little for him when he was in S.F. either.

Ask paint about how he showed his "appreciation" for a Cub fan on Opening Day. ;)

GAC
04-06-2007, 07:15 AM
I hate the Cubs more than any other team in any other sport. Blame their fans for this.

I think I have met 2 Cubs fans who were not jerks. Seriously.

If you have any doubts as to my hatred of the Cubs, ask anyone who was at the 'Zone gathering 3 years ago. I boo'd and hiss'd every fan at the watering hole we were at.

I despise the Cubs...I mean, I honestly think I hate the Cubs more than the Commies in 1980.

I was there, and remember it well. If we hadn't had you on a leash we'd have all been arrested. :mooner:

Ltlabner
04-06-2007, 07:28 AM
I'll go with the attitude of the fans option. I don't really mind that so many show up at GABP. I don't think all of them drove down, it just seems there are casual Cubs fans all over the place. When you city is so big, with people moving around they end up transplanted all over the place.

But they are so obnoxious. As several have posted, they act as if they invented the game and are being denied their birthright when they lose (again and again and again and again). I have a good friend who was rasied in Chicago and is a die hard Cubs fan. But he's an actual student of the game. He pay attention. He shows the same frustrations and resignation that we do when the Reds fall apart. But most of them...most of them tramp around GABP acting like Frat Boys, talking trash and almost playing a role. "I'm a Cubs fan, so I better act like an obnoxious jerk". That whole Chicago attitude thing (and to some degree the East Coast thing) is so much bluster and hot air.

The Dodgers. Them I hate. The Cubs are ok. The fans are just jerks.

MaineRed
04-06-2007, 07:34 AM
Count me as someone who hates the Cubs more than any other team.

Reason one is the fans. They are idiots, plain and simple. Every team has fans who are idiots but the Cubs seem to only have fans who are idiots or total nerds (Steve Bartman). Cheap Cub fans go to the games and hang out in the street hoping to catch a Todd Walker or Mark DeRosa HR. How lame does it get? These people have nothing better to do?

Another reason my hatred of the Cubs grew to this point:

http://www.gibson.com/whatsnew/pressrelease/2003/images/C_Caray_VA03.jpg

MaineRed
04-06-2007, 07:38 AM
But most of them...most of them tramp around GABP acting like Frat Boys, talking trash and almost playing a role. "I'm a Cubs fan, so I better act like an obnoxious jerk". That whole Chicago attitude thing (and to some degree the East Coast thing) is so much bluster and hot air.

Have you ever heard Chicagoans argue that Chicago style deep dish pizza is better than New York style, thin crust pizza? They call pizza from the famous NYC pizza houses, cardboard with cheese. I've seen a few shows on TV about pizza where they interview people from Chicago and they are so arrogant and start calling out people who like thin pizza.

The Cubs are the biggest part of it but I think I am just anti-Chicago. Nothing about that city interest me and the people there seem like total asses.

Ltlabner
04-06-2007, 07:44 AM
The Cubs are the biggest part of it but I think I am just anti-Chicago. Nothing about that city interest me and the people there seem like total asses.

Chicago as a city is fantastic. I'm usally there several times per year on business and I love going there. Great food. Great clubs. Great musesms. A very nice place to go.

I'm not making a blanket statement that everybody in Cook County is a jerk. Most of the people I do business with are very nice people. It's just the ones that wear a blue hat with a red C. ;) Maybe it's the hat? No one ever suspects the hat.

redsmetz
04-06-2007, 08:05 AM
Chicago as a city is fantastic. I'm usally there several times per year on business and I love going there. Great food. Great clubs. Great musesms. A very nice place to go.

I'm not making a blanket statement that everybody in Cook County is a jerk. Most of the people I do business with are very nice people. It's just the ones that wear a blue hat with a red C. ;) Maybe it's the hat? No one ever suspects the hat.

I agree with you, Ltlabner, regarding the city. I love Chicago. My daughter goes to college in northern Indiana and on several occasions we've gone to see her and taken the South Shore Line in ($11 round trip!) to downtown Chicago and seen the sites. And you can take the EL around (and it always makes me mad we never finished our subway - I ache for a good rapid transit system).

SunDeck
04-06-2007, 08:44 AM
I don't hate the Cubs, but I have some friends who are for unexplained reasons, Cubs fans. I just don't get it because these guys are baseball smart and for the most part my experience with Cubs fans at GABP and Wrigley says that they are not.

I have been annoyed by these friends' behavior for years and although we remain close, this has caused me to take a greater delight in seeing the Reds beat the Cubs than any other team.

One thing that struck me about Cubs fans was the treatment of Steve Bartman. All the finger pointing was at him instead of the fact that the Cubs players actually had a worse inning than he did that game. I guess just about any fan base could have reacted the same way, but the fact that it was Cubs fans who acted with such a complete lack of baseball acumen just made me dislike them even more.

RedsFan75
04-06-2007, 09:02 AM
Count me as someone who hates the Cubs more than any other team.

Another reason my hatred of the Cubs grew to this point:

http://www.gibson.com/whatsnew/pressrelease/2003/images/C_Caray_VA03.jpg

Man does not treat a Valley Arts like that... Sacralidge!

Gotta be the fans, my In-Laws are from middle Illinois, and they refuse to cheer for the Cubs, they are all Cards fans....

Marc D
04-06-2007, 10:07 AM
I've got many reasons but here's one that really gets me riled up, ESPIN's constant hype of the "rivalry" between the Cards and the Cubs. What they have is a "dislike" series, just like we do with the Cubs. You can't have a rivalry if one of the teams involved hasn't won anything of signifigance in over 100 years.

My criteria for a rivalry is 1) both teams have to have had a championship caliber seasons spoiled by the other 2) Both teams have to have won a championship by vanquishing their main foe.

Ohio State vs Michigan is a rivalry. Cubs vs Cards is more akin to OSU vs UC in football, there may be some strong dislike but its not a rivalry.

registerthis
04-06-2007, 10:14 AM
Chicago as a city is fantastic. I'm usally there several times per year on business and I love going there. Great food. Great clubs. Great musesms. A very nice place to go.

Indeed it is. I love Chicago. Don't have any particular hatred for the Cubs either, they're just another team to me. Then again, it's been 3 years since I've been able to attend a game in Cinci, so that may have something to do with it.

Strikes Out Looking
04-06-2007, 10:16 AM
I've said it before in this thread--1984 made me hate the Cubs--many of my fellow college students at IU were Cub "fans." They didn't know the first thing about baseball--it was a terrible experience.

In fact, my hatred of all things Cubs kept me from moving to Chicago after college. My wife and I (we live in MD) have thought about moving there in the past, and the idea of the Cubs--even more than Chicago winters--has always kept me (and always will keep me) from living there. I'll go and visit (and wear my Red's red), but live amongst those fools...never.

GAC
04-06-2007, 10:21 AM
Chicago as a city is fantastic.

I agree. And at some point in my lifetime I'd love to go and see a game at Wrigley. I hear it is quite an experience.

But what reg stated above pretty much nailed it for me. My own experience with their fans has been one of them simply being obnoxious. Look what not only the fans, but the local media, did with the Bartman incident. Poor guy.

Hoosier Red
04-06-2007, 10:25 AM
One thing that struck me about Cubs fans was the treatment of Steve Bartman. All the finger pointing was at him instead of the fact that the Cubs players actually had a worse inning than he did that game. I guess just about any fan base could have reacted the same way, but the fact that it was Cubs fans who acted with such a complete lack of baseball acumen just made me dislike them even more.

A friend of mine who is the only reasonable Cubs fan I've ever met puts it this way.

1. Bartman reached for a foul ball with 5 other fans.
2. Prior melted down
3. Gonzalez bobbled a grounder
4. Farnsworth and Remlinger added gas to the fire
5. Sammy airmailed a throw
6. Dusty just sat there and watched it
7. Rothschild failed to get anyone settled down

7 of these people are paid professionals who are paid rather handsomely to do pretty much the exact opposite of what they did.
1 of these people paid to get into the park and did exactly what was expected of him.

Naturally fans blame the guy who paid his way into the park.

westofyou
04-06-2007, 10:35 AM
Chicago as a city is fantastic.

It's a nice city, but "Fantastic" nah....


I agree. And at some point in my lifetime I'd love to go and see a game at Wrigley. I hear it is quite an experience.

My first Cubs game Ozzie Smith went 5-5

It was his best day at the plate in his career.


St. Louis Cardinals 11, Chicago Cubs 10
Game Played on Thursday, June 17, 1993 (D) at Wrigley Field

STL N 0 0 1 4 3 0 2 0 1 - 11 17 0
CHI N 1 0 0 2 0 3 0 2 2 - 10 19 0

BATTING
St. Louis Cardinals AB R H RBI BB SO PO A
O. Smith ss 5 1 5 6 0 0 2 2

Personally I don't "Hate" other fans, that might have to do with the fact that I have rarely been representing the "Home" team when I go to sporting events, mostly because I root for Midwest teams and spend 10 days a year there.

jojo
04-06-2007, 10:45 AM
It stems from Chicago being a two team city.... In general, Chicago sports fans are a bit insufferable. Then consider that all of the knowledgeable baseball fans in Chicago gravitate to the south side... that leaves the Cubs with, well, the insufferable and dumber leftovers... Take pity though, if your knowledge of the game was largely shaped by hearing slurred names annunciated backwards, you'd be a bit of an issue when you hit the road as well...

TRF
04-06-2007, 10:53 AM
I remember the day I started hating the Cubs. Well not the day or date, but certainly the game.

Allow me to refresh some memories. Soto heads into the stands with a bat...

good times.

RFS62
04-06-2007, 11:24 AM
I have a few friends in Chicago. Salt of the earth people.

I hate the traffic there. I hate the winters there.

It has many, many cool things to do and places to go.

Still, somehow, when a fan puts on that little blue cap with the little red C, his baseball IQ evaporates.

I love beating those guys.

TeamDunn
04-06-2007, 11:52 AM
I remember the day I started hating the Cubs. Well not the day or date, but certainly the game.

Allow me to refresh some memories. Soto heads into the stands with a bat...

good times.

Here's the date! :)


» May 31, 1984: Mario Soto is suspended for five days by National League president Chub Feeney for his role in a 32-minute melee that marred the Reds-Cubs game on May 27th. After shoving 3B umpire Steve Rippley, who had signaled that Ron Cey's long fly ball was a 3-run home run (it was later ruled foul), a bat-wielding Soto then tried to attack a park vendor who had thrown a bag of ice at him. Soto will be suspended again for five more days later in the season for his June 16th fight with Claudell Washington.

Red in Chicago
04-06-2007, 01:58 PM
It's a nice city, but "Fantastic" nah....

trust me, it's a fantastic city ;)

registerthis
04-06-2007, 02:02 PM
trust me, it's a fantastic city ;)

I agree. One of the great American cities to be sure. Got to take a dinner cruise on lake Michigan one evening, and the skyline viewed from that perspective is simply awe-inspiring.

WMR
04-06-2007, 02:10 PM
Hating the scrubbies is as American as apple pie.

Ltlabner
04-06-2007, 02:50 PM
Still, somehow, when a fan puts on that little blue cap with the little red C, his baseball IQ evaporates.

I'm telling you, it's the hat. Nobody suspects the hat.

Reds1
04-06-2007, 03:48 PM
For me it's fun hatred :)

RFS62
04-06-2007, 04:14 PM
http://www.spiritwatch.org/fans3.JPG


If loathing you is wrong, I don't want to be right.

Jpup
04-06-2007, 04:30 PM
BTW, I really hate the Cardinals too.:cool:

TeamBoone
04-06-2007, 04:33 PM
Have you ever noticed that some magazines, non-baseball catalogs, etc offer insignia merchandise for the teams doing well at the time? For instance, I just saw one in some catalog and they offered merchandise for the Yankees, Braves, another team that I can't remember, and THE CUBS!

The Cubs are ALWAYS one of the teams included in these 4-6 team merchandise offers. For Pete's sake, WHY?

Always Red
04-06-2007, 06:12 PM
BTW, I really hate the Cardinals too.:cool:

And the Asstro's, too. :thumbup:

vaticanplum
04-06-2007, 07:19 PM
Count me as (I guess) a rare bird who didn't really like living in Chicago at all. And I even like the cold.

Some things, though, they do better than anybody else. Pizza and theater, among other things. But there were just more things I didn't like than did. Cubs fans among them. I went on some rant about this last year, actually, can't remember everything I said but I know I summed up my feelings.

edit: I have to take something back. I look Brooklyn corner pizza better than Chicago pizza. But chicago really does have the best theater in America.

vaticanplum
04-06-2007, 07:22 PM
Have you ever noticed that some magazines, non-baseball catalogs, etc offer insignia merchandise for the teams doing well at the time? For instance, I just saw one in some catalog and they offered merchandise for the Yankees, Braves, another team that I can't remember, and THE CUBS!

The Cubs are ALWAYS one of the teams included in these 4-6 team merchandise offers. For Pete's sake, WHY?

Because they have a very big fan base that spends money.

I will say this for the Cubs: they've always been a smartly marketed team. The White Sox turned down the WGN deal in the 80s, and the Cubs snatched it up. Back then, there was no internet, there was no satellite radio. WGN as a national cable station turned out a generation of Cubs fans at a time when people had very little access to teams outside their own market. One of my good friends is one of the biggest Cubs fan in the world -- and he grew up in Maine and never saw Chicago or the team until he was 18. He is die-hard, read the box scores every day as a kid, all because of WGN. That happened to people of all ages, all over the country. While there are now many ways to see or hear all kinds of teams, that Cubdom has carried over simply because it made them a well-known and popular team.

Plus, a lot of people just love the underdog. The Cubs are in a unique position in that if they ever do win the World Series, I think over the course of a few years afterwards they will actually lose fans.

RedsBaron
04-06-2007, 08:10 PM
Look what not only the fans, but the local media, did with the Bartman incident. Poor guy.

Yeah, the whole Bartman thing really turned me against the Cubs. I'm not at GABP enough to have had any unpleasant encounters with Cubs fans. I wanted the Cubs to actually win a NL title back in the days of Banks/Williams/Jenkins in the late 1960s (assuming the Reds couldn't of course) and I was rooting for them in the 1984 and 1989 NLCS. I began turning against them because of my dislike of WGN and the Carey cult, but the whole Bartman controversy got to me. As Hoosier Red pointed out, Bartman was just behaving like a fan. The Cubs lost that game because their players and manager, the supposed pros, blew it. I didn't like Sosa, I don't like Wood, and I can't stand Dusty Baker--even Sweet Lou can't eliminate the stink there.
The only reasons I was happy to see the White Sox win the World Series in 2005 were (1) the Chisox hadn't won one since 1917, and (2) I figured Cub fans would hate it.

Blimpie
04-06-2007, 09:43 PM
I have hated them ever since they began running SpectraVision on the Jumbotron at Wrigley...

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/images/2005/04/20/rlyNzRhi.jpg

KYRedsFan
04-07-2007, 01:17 AM
Lived here three years, fell in love with the city, it's amazing. Still loathe the cubs and their fans.

KYRedsFan
04-07-2007, 01:19 AM
Count me as (I guess) a rare bird who didn't really like living in Chicago at all. And I even like the cold.

Some things, though, they do better than anybody else. Pizza and theater, among other things. But there were just more things I didn't like than did. Cubs fans among them. I went on some rant about this last year, actually, can't remember everything I said but I know I summed up my feelings.

edit: I have to take something back. I look Brooklyn corner pizza better than Chicago pizza. But chicago really does have the best theater in America.


If you're not a deep dish fan, check out a local place called "piece" if you're ever back in town. Great, amazing thin crust with award winning microbrews on site, killer combination.

westofyou
04-07-2007, 10:09 AM
The Cubs are ALWAYS one of the teams included in these 4-6 team merchandise offers. For Pete's sake, WHY?

Because they are the oldest and longest running franchise in MLB.