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REDREAD
08-13-2005, 12:18 AM
and what is abundantly clear is the pitching this team has is woefully inadequate in being able to compete. A few good weeks is nothing but a mirage. The question is will the FO be dumb enough to buy in.

Actually, the Reds could be competitive next year IF they trade a young OF for a Cliff Lee, sign or trade for a good starting pitcher, and have Harang and Clausen continue to progress.

It's a tall order, but there's still a little time to put together an AVERAGE pitching staff to go with this offense. Average pitching would put them in wild card contention (or close to it.. good enough to make the team very exciting).

OnBaseMachine
08-13-2005, 12:18 AM
Nine straight road wins...if they can hold it.

Aronchis
08-13-2005, 12:19 AM
and what is abundantly clear is the pitching this team has is woefully inadequate in being able to compete. A few good weeks is nothing but a mirage. The question is will the FO be dumb enough to buy in.

Probably. But with the ownership situation, things are on hold. They could unload the vets during the winter, or they could keep them and use the depth in the outfield to fill holes. May they tred water? They could. But I think something moves one way or another.

Actually, why the Reds pitching is a mirage now, so was the historically awfull period during the spring. They are just bad.

westofyou
08-13-2005, 12:20 AM
Why do the Reds need a Cliff Lee?

I thought you meant "Carlos" Lee.

nevermind.

REDREAD
08-13-2005, 12:20 AM
oh yeah, reds win!

NC Reds
08-13-2005, 12:20 AM
Weathers is no Danny Graves. ;)

flyer85
08-13-2005, 12:26 AM
Probably. But with the ownership situation, things are on hold. They could unload the vets during the winter, or they could keep them and use the depth in the outfield to fill holes. May they tred water? They could. But I think something moves one way or another.

Actually, why the Reds pitching is a mirage now, so was the historically awfull period during the spring. They are just bad.better try to trade the vets now. Mets may be desperate enough to take Casey with Cameron and Monkeywicks out.

GAC
08-13-2005, 12:29 AM
Nice win. Hats off to Weathers too

Danny who?

flyer85
08-13-2005, 12:32 AM
Weathers is no Danny Graves. ;)that because he hasn't lost his stuff. Interesting that Graves only pitches for the Mets when a game is hopelessly out of reach.

Falls City Beer
08-13-2005, 12:32 AM
Honestly, Weathers has had a pretty great season.

captainmorgan07
08-13-2005, 12:34 AM
i say we bring david back for next year

KronoRed
08-13-2005, 12:34 AM
Nice win...EE is going to be something.

flyer85
08-13-2005, 12:39 AM
i say we bring david back for next yearhe most likely will be. The stupid thing is that Booker should be up here attempting to close to find out if he can do it a the ML level. If they finish the season with Weathers as closer they will have learned nothing to help them for next year.

Falls City Beer
08-13-2005, 12:45 AM
he most likely will be. The stupid thing is that Booker should be up here attempting to close to find out if he can do it a the ML level. If they finish the season with Weathers as closer they will have learned nothing to help them for next year.

Wouldn't it be better to break Booker in in middle relief?

redsfan30
08-13-2005, 12:51 AM
Wouldn't it be better to break Booker in in middle relief?
Yes. There's no way you bring him up and throw him right into the closers role. That would be career homicide.

KronoRed
08-13-2005, 12:56 AM
He should be up here now...what are they waiting for?

Falls City Beer
08-13-2005, 12:58 AM
He should be up here now...what are they waiting for?

September? Truthfully, the only spot that's improved in any meaningful way has been the bullpen.

traderumor
08-13-2005, 01:07 AM
Honestly, Weathers has had a pretty great season.He has done quite well after the St. Louis meltdown, when I was calling for his head to roll. Not sure why hitters struggle with his slop, but they do.

BrooklynRedz
08-13-2005, 05:28 AM
Travis Wood sent Ogden down in order in his first inning of work tonight. Two flyouts and a strikeout.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&did=milb&t=g_box&gid=2005_08_12_bilrok_ogdrok_1

WOW! Check out Denove...without seeing the game, that's quite possibly the worst line I've ever seen. Picked off first, commits a passed ball, an error and goes 0-for-2 on the night. U-G-L-Y....

But good to see Wood continuing to mow 'em down after the promotion.

RFS62
08-13-2005, 09:04 AM
Since returning, Kearns has been beat up on after every atbat that resulted in an out. I don't really understand it, dude is OPSing around .840 since his return. And his plate discipline has been much better this month(four walks in 24 atbats).



Yeesh, I just read about half of this thread, and it's making my head hurt.

Kearns reported to spring training overweight and out of shape. He got what he deserved in his demotion to AAA. And it apparently worked. He lost weight, got his stroke back on track, and is steadily improving. It doesn't happen overnight.

He screwed up. He got called on it. He's trying to turn it back around, and it looks to me like it's working.

It took weeks to get out of shape, and it will take weeks to get back to where we want him.

NJReds
08-13-2005, 09:14 AM
Yeesh, I just read about half of this thread, and it's making my head hurt.


I read it and I thought the Reds lost...

Falls City Beer
08-13-2005, 10:59 AM
Yeesh, I just read about half of this thread, and it's making my head hurt.

Kearns reported to spring training overweight and out of shape. He got what he deserved in his demotion to AAA. And it apparently worked. He lost weight, got his stroke back on track, and is steadily improving. It doesn't happen overnight.

He screwed up. He got called on it. He's trying to turn it back around, and it looks to me like it's working.

It took weeks to get out of shape, and it will take weeks to get back to where we want him.

Just a little perspective on how bad Kearns has been: in 100 fewer ABs Javier Valentin has 1 (ONE!) fewer walk than Kearns (23/22).

I don't know about everyone else but I see the same player that got demoted in June. Except now his status in the eyes of other GMs is lower.

flyer85
08-13-2005, 11:10 AM
Wouldn't it be better to break Booker in in middle relief?maybe ... but the Reds are loaded with middle relievers.

Falls City Beer
08-13-2005, 11:17 AM
maybe ... but the Reds are loaded with middle relievers.

If the Todd Jones trade taught me anything, it's that if you have a cheap, producing veteran in the bullpen, keep 'em. Or DanO will trade him for Javon Moran or whatever that dude's name is (whom we don't need at all). Booker, if he has the goods to close, can take the Lidge route--kick down the door to the closer's role.

flyer85
08-13-2005, 11:22 AM
If the Todd Jones trade taught me anything, it's that if you have a cheap, producing veteran in the bullpen, keep 'em.if the Reds go onto 2006 with Weathers in closer role it will be a big mistake, especially if there is no Lidge waiting to kick down the door.

westofyou
08-13-2005, 12:07 PM
Just a little perspective on how bad Kearns has been: in 100 fewer ABs Javier Valentin has 1 (ONE!) fewer walk than Kearns (23/22).

So what it's 100 ab's.

If you have top take a smalll sample size to beat up on his game through his walk rate then you are reaching IMO.

1 walk every 11 ab's since he came back... in 100 ab's that is a difference between 9 walks and 12.

One day with a Luke Hudson can tweak that ratio.

Before this year he averaged 1 walk every 8.75 ab's

Falls City Beer
08-13-2005, 12:32 PM
So what it's 100 ab's.

If you have top take a smalll sample size to beat up on his game through his walk rate then you are reaching IMO.

1 walk every 11 ab's since he came back... in 100 ab's that is a difference between 9 walks and 12.

One day with a Luke Hudson can tweak that ratio.

Before this year he averaged 1 walk every 8.75 ab's

Look, I don't think Kearns is dogcrap. I think he could pull it together. I've defended the guy's abilities for the last two plus seasons against people who have argued that he's brittle (when, in fact, he suffered contact injuries), people who say he's overhyped (when I saw his ability to take a walk set him apart from "gamers" like Pena). So I know what Kearns is made of. But defending this season of his is next to impossible. He is all kinds of screwed-up, IMO. I think a change of scenery will do him good (and I don't normally put much stock into nebulous things like "change of scenery"). But I have a sneaking suspicion that he would be destroying the ball if his jersey read "Atlanta."

westofyou
08-13-2005, 12:34 PM
Look, I don't think Kearns is dogcrap. I think he could pull it together.
You have a funny way of showing it.

But defending this season of his is next to impossible.
So beat up on him instead?

I'll pass, the guy is playing the best RF I've seen from a Red all year, in my book that counts for something.

pedro
08-13-2005, 12:42 PM
I don't know about everyone else but I see the same player that got demoted in June. Except now his status in the eyes of other GMs is lower.

I don't agree. He's playing way better defense which to me is a good indicator of his overall ability to contribute. I believe his hitting will pick up as well.

Falls City Beer
08-13-2005, 01:00 PM
You have a funny way of showing it.

So beat up on him instead?

I'll pass, the guy is playing the best RF I've seen from a Red all year, in my book that counts for something.

Don't take it personally. It's just frustrating to see his talents go to waste. I've reached my breaking point with the guy, and frankly, he's done nothing this year, except play right field well, that fundamentally dissuades my opinion. When he starts consistently mashing into the gaps with authority, then I'll change my mind back. Right now, his game is low-BA-driven Casey-ball. Blech.