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traderumor
08-15-2005, 02:15 PM
Holdout tests Lewis creed
8-15-05, 12:40 p.m.
BY GEOFF HOBSON

GEORGETOWN, Ky. _ With David Pollack’s holdout stretching to 18 days and 20 practices Monday morning, Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis had his harshest words yet for one of three unsigned first-round draft picks left in the NFL.

A visibly frustrated Lewis chose a news conference to discuss how Pollack’s holdout has flown in the face of the unselfish culture he’s created in his three seasons running the Bengals.

“I think we’ve really fought very hard to eliminate these kind of actions around here and it’s a shame that it occurred,” Lewis said. “We have other guys who have chosen to be here and we’ve eliminated selfishness that occurs. I’ve said it many times. If that’s what it comes down to, a dollar here a dollar there, they’re on the wrong football team. This football team will never, ever be guided by one guy. . .We’re not going to be compromised by one player or one person and that’s not going to change.

“That’s been important. It’s important to the guys who sit in these chairs every night that we do not change that because we believe in that,” said Lewis in a room that doubles as the team’s meeting space here at Georgetown College. “It’s been proven around the league that’s what wins.”

Lewis reiterated that he feels the club has “given in every way,” to Pollack’s agents, and “then it’s not good enough.”

Marvin, as pseudo GM, appears to be fed up with agents. He also had some strong words for Adam Kieft's agent. This one is baffling to me and all reports seem to be Pollack holding out for a comparatively small couple hundred thousand. I don't think he's making any friends anywhere in the organization by doing so, either, including his teammates. Bad start, IMO.

Jeremy Piergallini
08-15-2005, 02:27 PM
Sounds as if the agents are being greedy. Good thing is that Odell looked good and Landon and Brian can man the outside. Depth is the only issue and with a position change, not sure how much he would have contributed anyway. That being said, being in camp on time would have most certainly helped him. Now, not only is he behind as far as football goes, he also is probably going to be in the doghouse for awhile.

WMR
08-15-2005, 03:00 PM
He's really screwing up. You don't want to be in Marvin's doghouse on this football team.

SunDeck
08-15-2005, 03:01 PM
Funny how much difference one person can make. In pre-Marvin days, this holdout would be portrayed quite differently in the media IMO.

WMR
08-15-2005, 03:05 PM
SunDeck, you are SOOO right. This would be another evil Mike Brown misstep back in the day. LOL, glad those days are past. What a nightmare. (the entire situation)

zombie-a-go-go
08-15-2005, 03:32 PM
In other news, P-Dub was cleared for practice Sunday. :D

traderumor
08-15-2005, 03:36 PM
In other news, P-Dub was cleared for practice Sunday. :DIf he's healthy, the receiver corp is scary. The likes of Cliff Russell, Jamaal Broussard, Kevin Walter will be looking for employment elsewhere if so. And those are not players without plusses that might be good backups, but I sure wouldn't keep any of them over Kelly Washington or Tab Perry (who is prob going on the developmental squad, I'm guessing/hoping). If I had my druthers, if it comes down to one place with receivers, I keep Walter just to have a possession type receiver in the mix.

Playadlc
08-15-2005, 03:49 PM
Marvin Lewis will not back down. Pollack can either go get his 7 mil, or watch football this fall on DirectTv.

redsfan30
08-15-2005, 04:07 PM
This really surprises me from David Pollack. I remember seeing a piece on him and his girlfriend on SportsCenter back before the draft and I came away with an overwhelming feeling of "this really seems like a good guy".

He really seemed like he was someone who loved football and loved life. He seemed like a very morally sound person. He did not seem like someone that would hold out this long over this amount of money, but aparently he is.

He is really putting his career in jeapardy before he even steps on the field for the first time. Even if he does wind up reaching an agreement with the Bengals, he is in Marvin's doghouse....that much is evident. Will he still see signficant playing time at a new position over someone who has busted thier butt in camp from day 1? I don't know. Nobody will make out winners in this situation.

Get your butt to camp, David and earn that extra money. If you play up to your potential, you will make that money and so much more. But it's awful hard to prove your worth from your living room in Georgia.

flyer85
08-15-2005, 05:11 PM
From what I have read the picks before and after Pollack got a 15% bump from the 2004 draft. The Bengals are offering only 10%. The NFL has a slotting system and an agent never wants to look bad especially by agreeing to a substandard deal(in their view) after the surrounding picks have come to terms.

At this point I wouldn't expect a solution quickly. His value to the 2005 Bengals has lessened considerably and is unlikley to be rescued at this point.

Seems to me that the Bengals have returned to their old ways of doing business, that is holding the line for a pittance(~400K) to the detriment of the team.

traderumor
08-15-2005, 05:24 PM
Seems to me that the Bengals have returned to their old ways of doing business, that is holding the line for a pittance(~400K) to the detriment of the team.While I do not consider Marvin infallible, it seems more like the agents keep on moving the target:


Lewis reiterated that he feels the club has “given in every way,” to Pollack’s agents, and “then it’s not good enough.”

Since Pollack seemed enthusiastic, it sounds to me like he's simply toeing the line with the agents giving him the "we've done this before, and you haven't, so trust us." Earlier, the agents were quoted with respect to the holdout that "the first contract is the most important one to get right." I see both sides, and I also consider the player to be holding out for a comparative pittance compared to the entire contract. But, with limited guaranteed money in NFL contracts, you'll have these squabbles, unlike baseball who must pay guys the full amount of the contract come hell or highwater.

registerthis
08-15-2005, 05:27 PM
From what I have read the picks before and after Pollack got a 15% bump from the 2004 draft. The Bengals are offering only 10%. The NFL has a slotting system and an agent never wants to look bad especially by agreeing to a substandard deal(in their view) after the surrounding picks have come to terms.

At this point I wouldn't expect a solution quickly. His value to the 2005 Bengals has lessened considerably and is unlikley to be rescued at this point.

Seems to me that the Bengals have returned to their old ways of doing business, that is holding the line for a pittance(~400K) to the detriment of the team.
Seems to me like it's become a p@ssing match between management and Pollack's agent.

If, as Lewis indicates, the Bengals have given in to contract demands made by the agent, and still the deal is held up for a few hundred $'s--peanuts in professional sports--then the blame seems to rest mor eon the agent at this point than on the Bengals.

flyer85
08-15-2005, 05:31 PM
It seems that there is all the talk of this being a playoff year, not getting your first pick to camp until after they will be of little help over a few hundred thousand dollars is the old Bengals way of doing business.

Training camp is almost over and 2005 is likely to be a wasted year for Pollack even if he signed today. From my point of view the prudent thing(for the long-suffering Bengals) would have been to bite the bullet and overpay instead of standing on principle while shooting yourself in the foot.

flyer85
08-15-2005, 05:32 PM
If, as Lewis indicates, the Bengals have given in to contract demands made by the agent, and still the deal is held up for a few hundred $'s--peanuts in professional sports--then the blame seems to rest mor eon the agent at this point than on the Bengals.It is a PR battle going on but make no mistake, it is the Bengals 2005 football team that will suffer the biggest hit.

registerthis
08-15-2005, 05:36 PM
It is a PR battle going on but make no mistake, it is the Bengals 2005 football team that will suffer the biggest hit.
I'm not sure Pollack is the missing link between this team and a playoff birth.

flyer85
08-15-2005, 05:41 PM
I'm not sure Pollack is the missing link between this team and a playoff birth.but what if he is? That would be a very high price to pay in retrospect.

Personally, I don't think he is because I think this teams defense is not going to be playoff caliber this season.

Dom Heffner
08-15-2005, 05:59 PM
If I were as lousy a football player as David Pollack is, I would holdout for all the money I could, too. He'll need it when he's out of the league in a few years.

I'm not serious, of course, but this pick made no sense to me, so if he doesn't play, I still think we are fine.

Why they drafted a lineman to play linebacker....

Yachtzee
08-15-2005, 06:01 PM
It is a PR battle going on but make no mistake, it is the Bengals 2005 football team that will suffer the biggest hit.

I don't necessarily think so. ML has taken a firm stance that the team comes first. The old Bengals way was two-fold: 1. Don't mortgage the future for the team today, and 2. Don't negotiate in the media. The problem with the old way was that there was no way to prevent players and their agents from going to the media and trying to make the Bengals look bad. It wasn't that the Bengals were cheap, it's that they weren't willing to offer big, back-loaded contracts with huge escalators that would push the team into "cap hell" down the road. The amazing thing is that those back-loaded deals are mainly "ego-boosts" for the player and the agent because the player likely gets cut for cap reasons before playing out the full contract. Unfortunately, guys like Pickens and Dillon realized that the way to "get paid" as it were was to sign a contract, get the signing bonus, then badmouth the team to get out of the contract. So now you have the "Pickens" clause.

The thing is, I think the tide is turning. In years past, the media would be talking about "Same Old Bengals." But now I sense that, after TO's antics last year and this, as well as some other high profile rookie hold-outs, people are getting tired of players who stand to make millions already sitting out to get more. In the past, people could sympathize with a star player who made only a few hundred grand sitting out, especially when their career could be over with one injury. However, now you have guys who can become set for life by signing one contract. If Pollack signs on the dotted line right now and invests his money wisely, he'll be taken care of if he gets injured.

With organizations like the Patriots emphasizing the team over the individual and winning Super Bowls doing it, it appears that sitting out isn't quite tactically sound as it might have been in the past.

Yachtzee
08-15-2005, 06:04 PM
but what if he is? That would be a very high price to pay in retrospect.

Personally, I don't think he is because I think this teams defense is not going to be playoff caliber this season.

If David Pollack, by himself, is the key between playoffs and not, then the Bengals are much further away than they should be. Personally I believe that Thurman was the much more valuable pick. From what I heard around draft, he was the much more NFL ready player, but had personal issues. Pollack was always viewed as more of a project because of his change of position.

flyer85
08-15-2005, 06:05 PM
With organizations like the Patriots emphasizing the team over the individual and winning Super Bowls doing it, it appears that sitting out isn't quite tactically sound as it might have been in the past.Recently worked for Seymour as the Patriots reworked his deal which had several years left to run.

The Bengals were counting on Pollack to be a starter. Not being able to get him signed and into training camp is a severe miscalculation on someone's part.

Yachtzee
08-15-2005, 06:11 PM
The Bengals were counting on Pollack to be a starter. Not being able to get him signed and into training camp is a severe miscalculation on someone's part.

IIRC, he wasn't counted on to be the starter when drafted, but was able to move himself into the starter's spot based on strong workouts during mini-camp.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-15-2005, 06:28 PM
IIRC, he wasn't counted on to be the starter when drafted, but was able to move himself into the starter's spot based on strong workouts during mini-camp.



Then I would have to say that it is a very unwise use of a first-round pick.

But why should things ever change in that area?

Other than Carson Palmer (2003-And the jury is still out on him) I haven't been overwhelmed with Marvin's first round picks. Chris "Ki-Jana" Perry over Kevin Jones and an undersized 'tweener college DE (Pollack) that was not counted on to be a starter until he learned how to play LB in the NFL.

Hmm.

zombie-a-go-go
08-17-2005, 11:37 AM
Pollack has signed a 5yr deal with the Bengals, according to Mark Curnutte (Cincinnati Enquirer). He ended up with a bit more guaranteed money than the pick before him in the draft.

traderumor
08-17-2005, 11:49 AM
Then I would have to say that it is a very unwise use of a first-round pick.

But why should things ever change in that area?

Other than Carson Palmer (2003-And the jury is still out on him) I haven't been overwhelmed with Marvin's first round picks. Chris "Ki-Jana" Perry over Kevin Jones and an undersized 'tweener college DE (Pollack) that was not counted on to be a starter until he learned how to play LB in the NFL.

Hmm.So when Carson Palmer didn't take a snap in 2003, I suppose that made him a bad first round pick? I'm not following your expectations for a rookie, regardless of what round they were picked in. I think only bad football teams depend on rookies to fill slots, regardless of what round they were picked in. A rookie as a key contributor on a good football team is icing on the cake.