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kaldaniels
09-08-2005, 04:41 PM
Just to put it in perspective...the following guys have higher ERA's than Harang (who has gotten better as the year goes on...no more than 4 ER in last 10 starts)

Glavine
M Morris
B Penny
B Webb
D Lowe
K Benson
M Prior
J Beckett
J Schimdt
G Maddux
J Weaver

I don't know how...but Aaron is still flying under the radar this year...we can still sign him long term very easily I'm sure. Huge mistake if the FO misses out on this.

cincyinco
09-08-2005, 04:56 PM
Not only do I think we could lock him up long term, but i also think we could do so at a very good rate. I wouldn't go beyond 2/3 years tho at this point in time. Maybe 2/3 years with option.

OldRightHander
09-08-2005, 04:58 PM
I don't know why in the world anyone would want him locked up. I don't think he'd do the team much good from a cell. Maybe there's something I missed. Hmm...

Blimpie
09-08-2005, 05:04 PM
Agreed. I hope that, come contract renegotiation time, the Reds don't forget that Harang:

1) Has kept a 3:1 ratio (K:BB) this year
2) Will eat over 200 innings
3) Is still just 27 years old
4) Had an OBP of .032

Oops, scratch that last one. ;)

OSURedLeg
09-08-2005, 05:13 PM
Does anyone else agree with this contract offer:
3 Years at 14 million (overall)
A team option for a 4th year at 6 million
?
I'm curious to hear what everyone's thoughts are on what the Reds could realistically sign Harang for. I personally think this may be a little bit on the low end, but it seems like the range he could be had for. I could very easily see him inking 18 - 20 million for a 3 year contract, so I wouldn't mind hearing some additional input from others to see if I'm in the right ballpark on my estimations.

KronoRed
09-08-2005, 05:16 PM
I don't know why in the world anyone would want him locked up. I don't think he'd do the team much good from a cell. Maybe there's something I missed. Hmm...

Wise Acre! ;)

Blimpie
09-08-2005, 05:21 PM
Does anyone else agree with this contract offer:
3 Years at 14 million (overall)
A team option for a 4th year at 6 million
?
I'm curious to hear what everyone's thoughts are on what the Reds could realistically sign Harang for. I personally think this may be a little bit on the low end, but it seems like the range he could be had for. I could very easily see him inking 18 - 20 million for a 3 year contract, so I wouldn't mind hearing some additional input from others to see if I'm in the right ballpark on my estimations.Every club is always desperate for good, young starting pitchers. The problem is that these frenzied bidding wars that emerge for free agent pitchers terribly skew the real value of starting pitching to all teams in the league.

I mean, all it takes to nuke the market is another bloated signing from a Kris Benson or an Eric Milt---uhm...never mind :help:

CTA513
09-08-2005, 05:37 PM
Does anyone else agree with this contract offer:
3 Years at 14 million (overall)
A team option for a 4th year at 6 million
?
I'm curious to hear what everyone's thoughts are on what the Reds could realistically sign Harang for. I personally think this may be a little bit on the low end, but it seems like the range he could be had for. I could very easily see him inking 18 - 20 million for a 3 year contract, so I wouldn't mind hearing some additional input from others to see if I'm in the right ballpark on my estimations.

Harang makes $440,000 this year, so I would think a contract around 2-3 million a year for 2 or 3 years would probably work for him. I just hope that they resign him before everyone starts over paying in free agency.... because of that happens then he would probably ask for even more.

FeartheEars
09-09-2005, 02:47 AM
Too bad we can start discussing it now as contract negotiations cannot occur during the season. Thanks Dan O.

Topcat
09-09-2005, 03:54 AM
I most defintly want Harang signed for 3 to 4 years. I view him as a great 3 in a staff or a 4 or on a excellent staff, sadly he is a 1 or 2 on the Red's but all things considered i want him as a red big time over the next 4 years.

PuffyPig
09-09-2005, 09:13 AM
I most defintly want Harang signed for 3 to 4 years. I view him as a great 3 in a staff or a 4 or on a excellent staff, sadly he is a 1 or 2 on the Red's but all things considered i want him as a red big time over the next 4 years.

Harang has the 29th best ERA in the major leagues this year among starters.

With 30 teams and 150 starters out there, an average #3 pitcher would fall about 75th on the list. So, if you lined up all the pitchers in the league and ranked them, Harang would fall to the bottom of the #1 list. Now, Harang is not what we'd like a #1 starter to be, but there's not many true #1 starters out here. But when you look at it, Harang would be about the best #2 starter if the starters were evenly distributed throughout the league.

Blimpie
09-09-2005, 11:30 AM
Harang has the 29th best ERA in the major leagues this year among starters.

With 30 teams and 150 starters out there, an average #3 pitcher would fall about 75th on the list. So, if you lined up all the pitchers in the league and ranked them, Harang would fall to the bottom of the #1 list. Now, Harang is not what we'd like a #1 starter to be, but there's not many true #1 starters out here. But when you look at it, Harang would be about the best #2 starter if the starters were evenly distributed throughout the league.Exactly, which means that you can forget about getting him to sign for $ 2-3 million per year. That is, unless Master P becomes his agent. :D

baboone
09-09-2005, 10:02 PM
I seriously doubt Lindner is going to increase the payroll next year for another next to last place finish. Unless the Reds makes a trade and free up some payroll, Harang will probably go through arbitration... If Harang has another good year, then he deserves a multiyear contract... Oh yeah, Dunn will get a nice pay raise next year too. That Milton signing is looking better and better.

George Foster
09-10-2005, 01:13 AM
I seriously doubt Lindner is going to increase the payroll next year for another next to last place finish. Unless the Reds makes a trade and free up some payroll, Harang will probably go through arbitration... If Harang has another good year, then he deserves a multiyear contract... Oh yeah, Dunn will get a nice pay raise next year too. That Milton signing is looking better and better.

The Milton signing is still puzzling. He lead the NL in homeruns allowed in 04 and the Phillies obviously did not want to sign him. Real brain cramp.

PuffyPig
09-10-2005, 11:47 AM
The Milton signing is still puzzling.

You mean the 6+ ERA and gazillion HR's allowed haven't clearified things for you?

KronoRed
09-10-2005, 12:33 PM
Milton was signed because Dan O had cash burning a hole in ahis pocket and he needed to sign someone, Clement told us to take a hike so it was Milton :runaway:

Neo
09-10-2005, 01:50 PM
Harang reminds me of a young Chris Carpenter without the big 12-6 curve..

M2
09-10-2005, 02:06 PM
Harang's W-L record really is a gift to the team's budget and they should jump on an LTC before he inevitably wins a lot of games thanks to his consistently good pitching and drives up his pricetag.

Also, any proof you may have needed that Aaron Harang's become a money pitcher was given during a fan Q&A with MLB.com's Anthony Castrovince this week. One female fan wrote in to ask if Harang's available. I don't mean to be cruel, but that ain't because of his looks. She's not asking that question unless he's one heck of a pitcher.

Falls City Beer
09-10-2005, 02:42 PM
Harang reminds me of a young Chris Carpenter without the big 12-6 curve..

Let's not get carried away. I like Harang too, but Carpenter throws two totally and completely unhittable pitches for strikes (routinely). I'd love to know what those two pitches are for Harang. Think Matt Morris/good-era Andy Benes when you think of Harang.

Carpenter's stepped into the elite, where four or five pitchers total in MLB ever reside year in and year out.

pedro
09-10-2005, 03:00 PM
Looking at Harangs game log this year, he has been pretty damn consistent. He's really only been blown out of the game once this year and even then it was in Boston.



Game Log
Regular Season Season to Date
Date Opponent Score Dec IP H R ER HR BB K W L SV IP ERA
Sep 6 MIL W 2-1 - 6.2 8 1 1 0 3 7 9 12 0 185.0 3.60
Sep 1 @ HOU L 1-3 L 7.0 5 3 3 1 2 3 9 12 0 178.1 3.68

Aug 26 @ PIT W 6-1 W 7.0 7 1 1 0 1 5 9 11 0 171.1 3.68
Aug 20 ARI L 2-6 - 7.0 6 1 1 0 1 3 8 11 0 164.1 3.78
Aug 15 SFO L 3-7 L 5.0 9 4 2 2 2 7 8 11 0 157.1 3.89
Aug 9 @ CHC W 8-3 W 7.0 8 3 3 1 0 3 8 10 0 152.1 3.90
Aug 4 ATL L 4-7 L 6.0 8 4 4 1 3 1 7 10 0 145.1 3.90

Jul 30 @ SDG W 9-1 W 8.0 7 1 1 0 1 4 7 9 0 139.1 3.81
Jul 25 @ LAD L 0-4 L 6.0 7 4 4 0 2 3 6 9 0 131.1 3.97
Jul 20 CHC W 9-3 W 9.0 7 3 3 2 0 1 6 8 0 125.1 3.88
Jul 15 COL W 4-3 W 7.0 3 1 1 0 1 7 5 8 0 116.1 3.95
Jul 7 @ SFO L 1-5 L 6.0 4 3 2 1 1 8 4 8 0 109.1 4.12
Jul 2 HOU L 3-4 L 7.0 8 4 4 1 1 4 4 7 0 103.1 4.18

Jun 26 @ CLE L 3-4 - 6.0 6 3 3 0 3 4 4 6 0 96.1 4.11
Jun 20 STL L 1-6 L 6.1 8 5 5 1 3 5 4 6 0 90.1 4.08
Jun 15 @ BOS L 1-6 L 4.2 9 5 5 0 3 7 4 5 0 84.0 3.86
Jun 10 BAL L 3-4 L 7.0 5 3 3 1 2 10 4 4 0 79.1 3.52
Jun 4 @ COL L 5-7 L 5.2 7 6 6 0 2 7 4 3 0 72.1 3.48

May 30 @ HOU W 9-0 W 7.0 5 0 0 0 1 10 4 2 0 66.2 2.97
May 20 CLE W 2-1 W 7.1 4 1 1 0 2 9 3 2 0 59.2 3.32
May 14 @ PHI W 12-4 W 8.0 9 4 4 1 2 4 2 2 0 52.1 3.61
May 9 SDG L 5-6 - 8.0 3 1 1 0 2 8 1 2 0 44.1 3.45
May 3 STL L 2-4 L 7.0 6 2 2 0 1 2 1 2 0 36.1 3.96

Apr 27 @ CHC L 7-8 - 5.0 9 4 4 1 1 3 1 1 0 29.1 4.30
Apr 22 @ FLA L 2-4 - 6.0 8 2 2 0 2 6 1 1 0 24.1 3.70
Apr 17 HOU W 6-5 - 6.0 5 3 3 1 2 8 1 1 0 18.1 3.93
Apr 12 @ STL L 1-5 L 6.0 5 5 5 2 3 2 1 1 0 12.1 3.65
Apr 7 NYM W 6-1 W 6.1 1 0 0 0 3 5 1 0 0 6.1 0.00
Season Total 185.0 177 77 74 16 50 146 9 12 0 0 3.60

M2
09-10-2005, 03:10 PM
Looking at Harangs stats this, he has been pretty damn consistent. He's really only been blown out of the game once this year and even then it was in Boston.

Lucky me, I got to see that one live.

Actually, while Harang got hit around a bit, had someone played a little defense behind him he might have gotten out of that game without suffering too much damage.

The_jbh
09-10-2005, 07:42 PM
Harang reminds me of a young Chris Carpenter without the big 12-6 curve..

so Carpenter without his money pitch? yea i'd agree with you, Harang is a very average pitcher

3 years is fine but no more than 10 mil over that span

Bonzo
09-10-2005, 08:48 PM
"Harang's W-L record really is a gift to the team's budget and they should jump on an LTC before he inevitably wins a lot of games thanks to his consistently good pitching and drives up his pricetag."

Ahhh wins... The best measure of a pitcher's effectiveness. I hope Harang feels this way. :thumbup:

SirFelixCat
09-10-2005, 10:10 PM
Use the search function. This has been brought up at least 2 times this season...


But yes, a couple of us suggested earlier in the year that this is something the Reds should look into doing.

kaldaniels
09-11-2005, 01:05 AM
Reinforcement is not a bad thing my friend.

Caveman Techie
09-11-2005, 08:19 AM
It is definately time to sign Harang to a LTC (3 to 4 years). And as soon as the deal was done I would hire a personal trainer for him and physically attach them at the hip for the durration of the offseason.

Harang is just on the cusp of becoming a true #1 pitcher and I think the difference might be a couple more MPH's on his fastball, which would then setup his change as his true out pitch.

M2
09-11-2005, 05:43 PM
It is definately time to sign Harang to a LTC (3 to 4 years). And as soon as the deal was done I would hire a personal trainer for him and physically attach them at the hip for the durration of the offseason.

Harang is just on the cusp of becoming a true #1 pitcher and I think the difference might be a couple more MPH's on his fastball, which would then setup his change as his true out pitch.

His heater's his out pitch. The change is a nice wrinkle, but his bread and butter is going to be a well-placed heavy fastball.

As for additional MPH, he's already in the best shape of his life (worked like a dog this past offseason). Generally that doesn't make you throw much harder anyway. What it does do is help your fastball sit closer to your maximum velocity and allow you to maintain that velocity later into the game.

kaldaniels
06-29-2006, 12:14 AM
So....anyone still with me on this??? :evil:

BuckeyeRedleg
06-29-2006, 12:37 AM
How long did it take you to find this, Kal?

Well done.

Sign him up tomorrow, before he is unaffordable.

4 years....

20 Mil would be a steal.

kaldaniels
06-29-2006, 01:35 AM
How long did it take you to find this, Kal?

Well done.

Sign him up tomorrow, before he is unaffordable.

4 years....

20 Mil would be a steal.

It's amazing what an unknown Harang is nationally speaking.

KronoRed
06-29-2006, 02:27 AM
So....anyone still with me on this??? :evil:
Show off ;)

SirFelixCat
06-29-2006, 03:54 AM
Hey, kal, not to burst your bubble too much, but ummmmm:

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35567&highlight=Harang

This was back in May of last year ;)

redsfanfalcon
06-29-2006, 07:24 AM
4 years/16 million. It's a good, fair deal for everyone involved.

membengal
06-29-2006, 08:30 AM
It's still past time for this to happen. Should have happened in the off-season.

UC_Ken
06-29-2006, 11:29 AM
4 years/16 million. It's a good, fair deal for everyone involved.
Harang would be stupid to sign that deal right now. I think 4 yr./ 25 mil. is more like it for a guy who's going to have consecutive sub 4 ERA and 200+ IP seasons playing half his games at GABP.

RedsManRick
06-29-2006, 11:44 AM
Why would Harang take such a low dollar contract during his prime years? This isn't a 25 year old who wants to make more duing his arb years than he would otherwise before signing his primary mid-career contract. Harang's next deal is his big contract.

Given the money tossed around to guys like Kris Benson and Esteban Loaiza, I'd start the conversation at 5 years, 40 Mil if I'm Harang. Of course I'd come down a bit in the negotiations, but he'd be stupid to take anything less than 6-7 per once he's past his arb years.

Do I think he's worth it from the Reds perspective? Maybe. Given that he's got 2 more arb years (I believe), and that he's at 2.35 right now, I'd offer something like this:

2007 (age 29): 3.5 Mil
2008 (30): 5.0 Mil
2009 (31): 6.0 Mil
2010 (32): 7.0 Mil
2011 (33): 7.5 Mil (mutual option)

Total: 5 years, 29 Mil -- perhaps with performance based escalators

That gives his reasonable arb raises and life time financial security, while still priming him for a second chance to really cash in should he continue to elevate his game. In the meantime the Reds get a #2 starter to anchor the staff without breaking the bank. The contracts that really bug me are the ones where they are so backloaded the club gets caught in backloading cycle, causing them to always be in crisis mode.

redsupport
06-29-2006, 11:45 AM
Harang is excellent and to think we got the indomitable Joe Valentine from Oakland too, why it was a veritable Brink's heist

RedsFanInMD
06-29-2006, 12:07 PM
Given that ownership just signed extensions for both manager and GM, I wouldn't be surprised to see some player extensions coming down soon too. Harang must be considered a priority.

top6
06-29-2006, 04:52 PM
Why would Harang take such a low dollar contract during his prime years? This isn't a 25 year old who wants to make more duing his arb years than he would otherwise before signing his primary mid-career contract. Harang's next deal is his big contract.

Given the money tossed around to guys like Kris Benson and Esteban Loaiza, I'd start the conversation at 5 years, 40 Mil if I'm Harang. Of course I'd come down a bit in the negotiations, but he'd be stupid to take anything less than 6-7 per once he's past his arb years.

Do I think he's worth it from the Reds perspective? Maybe. Given that he's got 2 more arb years (I believe), and that he's at 2.35 right now, I'd offer something like this:

2007 (age 29): 3.5 Mil
2008 (30): 5.0 Mil
2009 (31): 6.0 Mil
2010 (32): 7.0 Mil
2011 (33): 7.5 Mil (mutual option)

Total: 5 years, 29 Mil -- perhaps with performance based escalators

That gives his reasonable arb raises and life time financial security, while still priming him for a second chance to really cash in should he continue to elevate his game. In the meantime the Reds get a #2 starter to anchor the staff without breaking the bank. The contracts that really bug me are the ones where they are so backloaded the club gets caught in backloading cycle, causing them to always be in crisis mode.This makes a lot of sense, and hence will never happen.