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View Full Version : Rosenthal: Reds expected to be open to trading Dunn



savafan
10-18-2005, 09:31 AM
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=26901

The Padres' Brian Giles could be the Cardinals' next right fielder. Giles, a potential free agent, wants to stay in San Diego, but if no deal can be worked out, the Cardinals likely will be his No. 1 choice. . . .

The Reds, expected to be open to trading LF Adam Dunn, want top young pitching in return. The Astros, Dodgers and Red Sox could be among the suitors, along with two low-revenue clubs that plan to spend more--the Royals and Blue Jays. . . .

Don't be surprised if the Red Sox entertain offers for RHP Matt Clement, with the idea of moving RHP Jonathan Papelbon into their rotation. Clement, 31, will make $9.5 million both in 2006 and '07, but given the shortage of quality free-agent pitchers, teams might find him attractive. . . .

One reason new Padres CEO Sandy Alderson might not be sorry if G.M. Kevin Towers leaves for the Diamondbacks: The Padres have almost $30 million committed next season to four players who should be making far less money--LF Ryan Klesko and RHPs Chan Ho Park, Woody Williams and Brian Lawrence. . . .

Angels Class A SS Brandon Wood hit nine home runs in his first 10 games in the Arizona Fall League, including four in one game. One scout, comparing Wood to a young Travis Fryman, says Wood has the ability to handle shortstop and will hit for enough power to play third base. . . .

Speaking of youngsters with promise, the impressive debut of Astros Class A 3B Koby Clemens could persuade his father, RHP Roger Clemens, to return for at least one more season. Koby, 18, isn't close to the majors, but he could join the Astros in spring training--or as a September call-up--in the next season or two.

lollipopcurve
10-18-2005, 10:01 AM
OK, of the teams mentioned as suitors for Dunn...

LA -- Fine. Start with Billingsley and either Elbert or Broxton. Sweeten if necessary to get more minor league talent, preferably offensive.
Boston -- Sorry, not buying the Anibel Sanchez or Hanley Ramirez hype. Lester is more likely, but I don't see a whole lot else (assuming they won't trade Papelbon).
Toronto -- Halladay for Dunn straight up?
KC -- Nope (although I would deal Kearns or Pena for Greinke -- but no way would I deal Dunn for him).
Astros -- Oswalt? Dunn, a hometwon boy, instantly becomes the face of the franchise for the next decade. Awful enticing for the Stros. But the deal won't work for the Reds unless they could sign Oswalt.

I keep coming back to the Dodgers. Unless Toronto or Houston wants to sacrifice an ace, and the Reds can sign him.

Heath
10-18-2005, 10:13 AM
Another case of Ken Rosenthal finding enough crap laying around to toss onto a wall hoping something will stick......

M2
10-18-2005, 10:19 AM
Probably the best the Astros could give is Jason Hirsch, Troy Patton and a hard-thrower who might flourish in the pen.

I like Hirsch and Patton, but for Dunn? I don't think so.

Greinke got exposed this year. Surprise, surprise. KC's got very little to give. I know they had some interest in Kearns and I might pursue that. The buy-in for the Royals would be J.P. Howell. If he's not on the table then they needn't waste their breath. Jonah Bayliss might make for an interesting throw-in.

I'd charge the Dodgers and Red Sox three premium prospects apiece. If they don't want to pay that then the Reds have other bats that might suit their needs.

Kc61
10-18-2005, 10:34 AM
OK, of the teams mentioned as suitors for Dunn...

LA -- Fine. Start with Billingsley and either Elbert or Broxton. Sweeten if necessary to get more minor league talent, preferably offensive.
Boston -- Sorry, not buying the Anibel Sanchez or Hanley Ramirez hype. Lester is more likely, but I don't see a whole lot else (assuming they won't trade Papelbon).
Toronto -- Halladay for Dunn straight up?
KC -- Nope (although I would deal Kearns or Pena for Greinke -- but no way would I deal Dunn for him).
Astros -- Oswalt? Dunn, a hometwon boy, instantly becomes the face of the franchise for the next decade. Awful enticing for the Stros. But the deal won't work for the Reds unless they could sign Oswalt.

I keep coming back to the Dodgers. Unless Toronto or Houston wants to sacrifice an ace, and the Reds can sign him.

Can we get some major league talent in return?

lollipopcurve
10-18-2005, 10:53 AM
Probably the best the Astros could give is Jason Hirsch, Troy Patton and a hard-thrower who might flourish in the pen.

Yep. Jimmy Barthmaier is another guy in single A who's worth watching. Then you've got Nieve and Astacio who are more advanced. If the Astros drop a truckload of these guys on the Reds doorstep, trying to outbid quality with quantity, it may be worth considering. But I'd like another year to see more of Patton.


Greinke got exposed this year. Surprise, surprise. KC's got very little to give. I know they had some interest in Kearns and I might pursue that. The buy-in for the Royals would be J.P. Howell. If he's not on the table then they needn't waste their breath. Jonah Bayliss might make for an interesting throw-in.

I just can't dismiss Greinke yet. 22 years old. Howell? He's been rushed too, but I like the lefthandedness, and the K rate for a young guy wasn't bad. The real intriguing guy may be Andy Sisco. Do you do that straight up for Pena/Kearns? I think KC is worth careful examination -- they are very likely to be interested in a deal, with their two young hitters, Butler and Gordon, headed for the infield or a DH role, and the outfield scary barren.


I'd charge the Dodgers and Red Sox three premium prospects apiece. If they don't want to pay that then the Reds have other bats that might suit their needs.

I do not deal with Dodgers unless Billingsley is included. Then, another very good arm. I don't think the Sox have the pitching to get Dunn. The guy I'd try to sell to Boston is Casey.

savafan
10-18-2005, 11:05 AM
The guy I'd try to sell to Boston is Casey.

If Boston can get Konerko they'll have no need for Casey, just like Bowden had no need for Konerko, having Casey in the fold. Is Casey really an upgrade over Millar though for Boston?

M2
10-18-2005, 11:24 AM
Yep. Jimmy Barthmaier is another guy in single A who's worth watching. Then you've got Nieve and Astacio who are more advanced. If the Astros drop a truckload of these guys on the Reds doorstep, trying to outbid quality with quantity, it may be worth considering. But I'd like another year to see more of Patton.

Agreed on Patton. You don't want to make too much of a young arm. If I had a scout I trusted implicitly to identify the next big thing on the mound screaming at me to get the kid, I'd take the gamble, but we can't know if the Reds have that kind of scout (I suspect they don't) or if that scout is hot for Patton. I like Hirsch a lot too. He was my 2003 second round cyberpick.


I just can't dismiss Greinke yet. 22 years old. Howell? He's been rushed too, but I like the lefthandedness, and the K rate for a young guy wasn't bad. The real intriguing guy may be Andy Sisco. Do you do that straight up for Pena/Kearns? I think KC is worth careful examination -- they are very likely to be interested in a deal, with their two young hitters, Butler and Gordon, headed for the infield or a DH role, and the outfield scary barren.

I should clarify my position on Greinke. I think he was wildly overrated and pushed years ahead of what his timetable should have been. That said, sure he could round into a good pitcher in time. He's still got a lot to learn. I wouldn't deal Dunn for him. I wouldn't deal Dunn for Greinke, Howell and Sisco and I like Howell and Sisco. You're right that KC had better get serious about its OF. When former Louisville stalwart Emil Brown is your feature OF you've got problems. I should have included Sisco with Howell. I'd want one of those plus a throw-in arm for Kearns or Pena. KC could carp and moan all they want, but there's no doubt Kearns and Pena can play pro ball, Howell and Sisco may never be quality starters and the Reds deserve something extra for the additional risk.


I do not deal with Dodgers unless Billingsley is included. Then, another very good arm. I don't think the Sox have the pitching to get Dunn. The guy I'd try to sell to Boston is Casey.

I think both L.A. and Boston have a pack of overrated prospects. There's talent there, but it's likely nowhere near as much as the press they're getting. That's why I'd be demanding my pick of three from the litter for Dunn. Since the industry has become freaky about prospects of late, I'm guessing both teams would balk at that demand.

I actually think Casey would be a great addition for Boston. Don't know if the Sox agree, but they could use a high BA guy in the #6 slot. Fenway rewards hitters like Sean.

lollipopcurve
10-18-2005, 11:30 AM
I actually think Casey would be a great addition for Boston. Don't know if the Sox agree, but they could use a high BA guy in the #6 slot. Fenway rewards hitters like Sean.

Exactly. Casey could hit well in Fenway, and he'd be a huge hit in the media (something the current ownership values). I wouldn't sell cheap, either. It's not a salary dump.

Heath
10-18-2005, 11:32 AM
If Boston can get Konerko they'll have no need for Casey, just like Bowden had no need for Konerko, having Casey in the fold. Is Casey really an upgrade over Millar though for Boston?

I think the LAAofA were mentioned by SI.com as someone interested in Paul Konerko.

savafan
10-18-2005, 11:37 AM
I think the LAAofA were mentioned by SI.com as someone interested in Paul Konerko.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2005/10/17/konerko_is_a_wanted_man/

ANAHEIM, Calif. -- Paul Konerko ranks as the biggest name among prospective free agent hitters this winter -- count the Los Angeles Times among the most recent journals to speculate that the Red Sox will be hot on his trail -- but if White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen has his way, Konerko's name never will come in play.

M2
10-18-2005, 11:44 AM
If Boston can get Konerko they'll have no need for Casey, just like Bowden had no need for Konerko, having Casey in the fold. Is Casey really an upgrade over Millar though for Boston?

Konerko would be a timewarp back to the '70s and '80s Red Sox. And they won what?

RedsBaron
10-18-2005, 12:03 PM
Konerko would be a timewarp back to the '70s and '80s Red Sox. And they won what?
In fairness, the '70s and 80s Bosox did win a couple of pennants and went to game seven before losing the World Series.

M2
10-18-2005, 12:08 PM
In fairness, the '70s and 80s Bosox did win a couple of pennants and went to game seven before losing the World Series.

Yeah, but they were always lumbering beasts that couldn't adapt.

Didn't help that they ran into the '75 Reds and '86 Mets. That's just lousy timing. I often tell Sox fans they should be extremely proud those teams didn't put a broom on them.

What I was driving at was the Sox historical fascination with RH power has proven a heartbreaker. Better pitching and defense would be areas more worthy of their consideration.

LincolnparkRed
10-18-2005, 01:26 PM
I think the LAAofA were mentioned by SI.com as someone interested in Paul Konerko.

I know that in the days of free agency who you played for last year doesn't matter but you have to look at the attachment factor with Konerko, he has been the leader of this team for 3 years. With Frank in and out and with neither C. Lee or Ordonez very media savy, you always had Paulie to talk to on the good days and bad. I also think that unless the White Sox want to turn it over to Ross Gload, then Konerko is staying put.

flyer85
10-18-2005, 01:36 PM
Reds expected to ... shoot themselves in the foot again this off-season.

That should cover whatever DanO decides to do.:bash:

RedsBaron
10-18-2005, 01:39 PM
Yeah, but they were always lumbering beasts that couldn't adapt.

Didn't help that they ran into the '75 Reds and '86 Mets. That's just lousy timing. I often tell Sox fans they should be extremely proud those teams didn't put a broom on them.

What I was driving at was the Sox historical fascination with RH power has proven a heartbreaker. Better pitching and defense would be areas more worthy of their consideration.
You're right. Back in the spring of 1986, in his annual "Baseball Abstract" Bill James had an article about the Red Sox pennant winners of 1946, 1967 and 1975 and their immediate successors. As I recall, in each case after winning a pennant, subsequent Red Sox teams loaded up on HR hitters and offense but didn't win. The 1948-50 Sox were more powerful than the '46 team, the 1969-70 Sox outhit the '67 team, the 1977-79 Sox scored more than the '75 team, etc. (I haven't actually looked up theteam stats, so I could be wrong).

westofyou
10-18-2005, 01:41 PM
Tony Doucet (Manchester, NH): Think Theo will go after Adam Dunn this winter to play first base? Also, I've noticed more squeeze bunts in this years playoffs than I've ever seen. Has any study ever been done to show if its a good play or not?

Christina Kahrl: The speculation about Dunn seems to be a special subset of fandom, but I guess I just don't see it happening. Who would the Red Sox give up, from among their homegrown pitching talent? That's what the Reds would ask for, as a starting point, and the Red Sox still need pitching in the first place. As much as I'd hope that the Reds would wise up and outrun the Brewers by making Sean Casey a Met before Doug Melvin puts Lyle Overbay in blue and orange, I think it's Kearns who will be dealt, if anyone.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/chat/chat.php?chatId=150

flyer85
10-18-2005, 01:50 PM
On Kahrl -


Making a Switch: Trans-gendered Sportswriter Changes Byline
By E&P Staff

Published: August 26, 2005 11:55 AM ET

NEW YORK In case anyone wonders if sportswriter Christina Kahrl is a sister or otherwise related to another sports reporter named Chris Kahrl, guess no more: they are one and the same.

Kahrl, who has been “out” as transgendered for more than a year, but has never written about it, used the female moniker for the first time earlier this month as author for a story at the Salon site about the Oakland Raiders.

The blurb simply read: “Christina Kahrl is a sportswriter who lives in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area.”

Kahrl has freelanced for newspapers and magazines but is best known as a founding columnist for Baseball Prospectus, a popular Web site and book series. Kahrl tells Washington City Paper this week, “I broke out in full form. 'Christina' was one of those things I wanted to see.”

Kahrl claims that since beginning to live as a woman in 2003, “Nobody has batted an eye. Everybody has been great and supportive, from friends and family and colleagues.” The worst name-calling? "Baseball geek."

What exactly does "trans-gendered" mean? cross dressing? Sex change operation? Taking hormones?

Just wonderin.

interesting quote I found on the topic

It did, however, mark her public transition from male to female, a process that began in 2003, all the more interesting because it happened in a profession that, that as Dave McKenna writes, "is still a male-dominated realm where, well, you’ve got either two balls or two strikes against you."

Redsland
10-18-2005, 02:21 PM
What exactly does "trans-gendered" mean?
It means you're a lot harder to fire and one offhand comment away from being a millionaire.

:cool:

westofyou
10-18-2005, 02:30 PM
What exactly does "trans-gendered" mean?

http://www.altzine.net/altzine_resimler/ForeignerHead-Games1979.jpg

larryboy
10-18-2005, 03:50 PM
Wouldn't moving Dunn be a last resort trade? The Reds have other marketable chips to free cash for free agents or acquire some pitching before reaching for the Dunn trade.

KronoRed
10-18-2005, 03:58 PM
Exactly. Casey could hit well in Fenway, and he'd be a huge hit in the media (something the current ownership values). I wouldn't sell cheap, either. It's not a salary dump.

If we find someone who will take Casey then we should just be happy to be free of the contract.

KronoRed
10-18-2005, 03:59 PM
http://www.altzine.net/altzine_resimler/ForeignerHead-Games1979.jpg

:help:

Sea Ray
10-18-2005, 04:11 PM
What exactly does "trans-gendered" mean? cross dressing? Sex change operation? Taking hormones?

Just wonderin.

It's a long process but it generally means all of the above. Who knows at what point "Chris" is at. Usually after a year or so of cross dressing and hormones the surgeon will agree to go ahead and remove some plumbing. I love how they think after taking hormones and having their body mutilated that their sex has changed.

There's an easy way to determine one's sex...a blood test. If it shows an XX chromosome you're a female...if it's an XY you're a male. End of discussion. No surgery can change one's chromosomes

Krusty
10-18-2005, 04:29 PM
When you look at teams that would be interested in Dunn and have farm systems deep in pitching, there are two that come in mind......the Dodgers and Pirates.

Now Dunn would probably be too expensive for the Pirates payroll but they might be interested in Pena. The Dodgers would have to offer their top pitching prospect Billingsley along with a couple of other arms for the Reds to even consider it.

Redsland
10-18-2005, 04:37 PM
No surgery can change one's chromosomes
Sounds to me like someone is chromosomophobic.

:p:

Aronchis
10-18-2005, 04:52 PM
Yawn, DanO has no authority to trade Dunn. Let it go Rosenthal. You lie for the sake of lying.

pedro
10-18-2005, 06:49 PM
http://www.washblade.com/2004/4-9/locallife/sports/SportsCol.jpg

savafan
10-18-2005, 07:24 PM
http://www.washblade.com/2004/4-9/locallife/sports/SportsCol.jpg

Who's the babe?

:evil:

pedro
10-18-2005, 07:42 PM
Who's the babe?

:evil:

Chris Karhl

KronoRed
10-18-2005, 07:46 PM
Nice shirt

savafan
10-18-2005, 11:16 PM
Chris Karhl

um...nevermind:barf:

Redsland
10-18-2005, 11:50 PM
"Wow, that's quite a handsome green sweater you're wearing. What's that? You say you're a writer? What a coincidence. It's so dark in here; would you like to go somewhere more...exciting?"


AHHHHHH!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

:yikes: :runawaycr

RFS62
10-19-2005, 12:08 AM
"Wow, that's quite a handsome green sweater you're wearing. What's that? You say you're a writer? What a coincidence. It's so dark in here; would you like to go somewhere more...exciting?"


AHHHHHH!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

:yikes: :runawaycr


The crying game.

flyer85
10-19-2005, 12:21 AM
"Wow, that's quite a handsome green sweater you're wearing. What's that? You say you're a writer? What a coincidence. It's so dark in here; would you like to go somewhere more...exciting?"


AHHHHHH!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

:yikes: :runawaycr
Funky Cold Medina

MartyFan
10-19-2005, 12:27 AM
Who is Chris Karhl?

Patrick Bateman
10-19-2005, 12:36 AM
Who is Chris Karhl?

Does it matter?

Ron Madden
10-19-2005, 05:39 AM
Who Chris karhl is matters not.

We all know the Reds need pitching help but the thought of dealing Dunn for a young arm scares me to death.

I've seen the Reds trade sluggers for pitching in the past only to get burned.I just have a bad feeling that if we trade Adam Dunn it will come back to haunt us for years to come.

MrCinatit
10-19-2005, 08:05 AM
this has officially turned into one of the more disturbing threads i have read here - and that is discounting the Dunn rumours.

what scares me more: under the paragraph stating suitable suiters for Dunn would be L.A., Houston and the BoSox is another paragraph saying the BoSox could be shopping Clement. i hope DanO does not see this...the gears could be working.

Milezinni
10-19-2005, 11:08 AM
We all know the Reds need pitching help but the thought of dealing Dunn for a young arm scares me to death.

I've seen the Reds trade sluggers for pitching in the past only to get burned.I just have a bad feeling that if we trade Adam Dunn it will come back to haunt us for years to come.

Only if you like winning....

Dunn is the worst thing to ever happen to the Cincinnati Reds. A total Bowden snowjob. "Hey Reds fans, look what I found while parading around the Texas backwoods looking for refugee boys. Isn't he dreamy, isn't he awe inspiring?"
And all the fans go "aaaaaahhhhhhhhh", like 5 year olds at a fireworks show.

Nothing but a slugger. A big, lumoxing, country boy that, IF he gets a hold of one, it goes, a long, long way. Which for some inexplicable reason truely impresses fans who should no better.

Jeremy Burnitz looks like Willie Mays compared to this kid. And don't get me wrong, I like Adam Dunn, a really do, but he is not what the Reds need, or need to spend their money on.

But in no way is he, or in my opinion, ever will be, a hitter!! No way, not after 5 seasons in the big leagues and has improved on very little since he came up.
It's taken him 5 years to make the kind of alterations even a bushleaguer will make in his first three series.

One dimensional, #6, probably a career #7, that should be traded while the GM's with that awe in their eyes still believe this is the 1990's-steroid-induced-"chicks-dig-the-long-ball"-sit-back-and-wait-for-the-three-run-homerun mentality rule the airwaves so to speak..

And I'll go one farther, since I couldn't care less about my reputation, that the Cincinnati Reds will NEVER win a playoff round with Adam Dunn in the lineup.

Trade him, trade him now, get anything you can, but get him out of here.....

RFS62
10-19-2005, 11:13 AM
Dude, you need to build a bridge and get over it.

flyer85
10-19-2005, 11:13 AM
well at least the charade is over and the cards are on the table.

I feel another suspension coming on.

flyer85
10-19-2005, 11:14 AM
Dude, you need to build a bridge and get over it.Someone must have taken liberties with his daughter.

At least we know what happened to BF.

westofyou
10-19-2005, 11:18 AM
But in no way is he, or in my opinion, ever will be, a hitter!!

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.

Adam Dunn was riding that wagon!

Other non hitters in the history of the game

Jim Thome, Ralph Kiner, Harmon Killebrew, Mark McGwire, Mike Schmidt and Darrell Evans even Roy Cullenbine.

Chip R
10-19-2005, 11:25 AM
Only if you like winning....

Dunn is the worst thing to ever happen to the Cincinnati Reds. A total Bowden snowjob. "Hey Reds fans, look what I found while parading around the Texas backwoods looking for refugee boys. Isn't he dreamy, isn't he awe inspiring?"
And all the fans go "aaaaaahhhhhhhhh", like 5 year olds at a fireworks show.

Nothing but a slugger. A big, lumoxing, country boy that, IF he gets a hold of one, it goes, a long, long way. Which for some inexplicable reason truely impresses fans who should no better.

Jeremy Burnitz looks like Willie Mays compared to this kid. And don't get me wrong, I like Adam Dunn, a really do, but he is not what the Reds need, or need to spend their money on.

But in no way is he, or in my opinion, ever will be, a hitter!! No way, not after 5 seasons in the big leagues and has improved on very little since he came up.
It's taken him 5 years to make the kind of alterations even a bushleaguer will make in his first three series.

One dimensional, #6, probably a career #7, that should be traded while the GM's with that awe in their eyes still believe this is the 1990's-steroid-induced-"chicks-dig-the-long-ball"-sit-back-and-wait-for-the-three-run-homerun mentality rule the airwaves so to speak..

And I'll go one farther, since I couldn't care less about my reputation, that the Cincinnati Reds will NEVER win a playoff round with Adam Dunn in the lineup.

Trade him, trade him now, get anything you can, but get him out of here.....

Something smells here. Oh, I know what it is.

creek14
10-19-2005, 11:27 AM
Me, when the topic of a Dunn trade comes up.

http://www.politicalcritic.com/images/A8066C-md.jpg

flyer85
10-19-2005, 11:29 AM
He is what he is. All the hitting theory, stats are misleading crapola was nothing but a distraction from the truth. He has some personal dislike for Dunn. If he isn't BF then he is just another reincarnation. He tried to hide his true agenda but he could only keep it up for so long before the truth came spilling out.

RedsBaron
10-19-2005, 11:30 AM
Yeah, your average bushleaguer typically scores a 100 runs a season, has 100 RBI, hits 40 HRs, has an OBP of at least .380 and slugs at least .540. Those guys are everywhere, a dime a dozen.;)
Dunn in 2004 scored 105 runs, hit 46 HRs, had 102 RBI, had an OBP of .388, and slugged .569.
Dunn in 2005 scored 107 runs, hit 40 HRs, had 101 RBI, had an OBP of .387, and slugged .540.
I really try not to be negative here, but these posts by Milezinni are about as silly and unreasoned as any I have ever seen at RedsZone.

flyer85
10-19-2005, 11:31 AM
I really try not to be negative here, but these posts by Milezinni are about as silly and unreasoned as any I have ever seen at RedsZone.He is doing nothing more than trolling at this point.

The emporer has no clothes.

M2
10-19-2005, 01:44 PM
Doesn't take long for 'em to go Unabomber, does it?

Cedric
10-19-2005, 01:49 PM
It's probably someone here under a fake name looking for drama.

REDREAD
10-19-2005, 01:55 PM
Who's the babe?

:evil:

Dude looks like a lady :laugh:

RedsManRick
10-19-2005, 01:58 PM
I'll take a ton of patience and power at the expense of a little hand-eye coordination any day. We'd score a lot more runs with a lineup full of Adam Dunns than with a lineup full of Sean Caseys.

remdog
10-19-2005, 02:20 PM
Nice piling on, guys. Especially WilyMoRocks. That's a direct personal attack if I ever saw one but he'll get away with it 'cause he's on the 'right side'.

Guess I'm just a liberal at heart but I find Mr. M entertaining---especially when he raises such indignation from the 'in crowd'. (You guys really rise to the bait when it's properly cast. You should know better.) Ignore the bait, it goes away. But, maybe you don't really want it to go away----it's a lot of fun to show your superiority by beating up someone you don't like.

I will say that it's been both entertaining and predictable.

Rem

pedro
10-19-2005, 02:25 PM
Only if you like winning....

Dunn is the worst thing to ever happen to the Cincinnati Reds. A total Bowden snowjob. "Hey Reds fans, look what I found while parading around the Texas backwoods looking for refugee boys. Isn't he dreamy, isn't he awe inspiring?"
And all the fans go "aaaaaahhhhhhhhh", like 5 year olds at a fireworks show.

Nothing but a slugger. A big, lumoxing, country boy that, IF he gets a hold of one, it goes, a long, long way. Which for some inexplicable reason truely impresses fans who should no better.

Jeremy Burnitz looks like Willie Mays compared to this kid. And don't get me wrong, I like Adam Dunn, a really do, but he is not what the Reds need, or need to spend their money on.

But in no way is he, or in my opinion, ever will be, a hitter!! No way, not after 5 seasons in the big leagues and has improved on very little since he came up.
It's taken him 5 years to make the kind of alterations even a bushleaguer will make in his first three series.

One dimensional, #6, probably a career #7, that should be traded while the GM's with that awe in their eyes still believe this is the 1990's-steroid-induced-"chicks-dig-the-long-ball"-sit-back-and-wait-for-the-three-run-homerun mentality rule the airwaves so to speak..

And I'll go one farther, since I couldn't care less about my reputation, that the Cincinnati Reds will NEVER win a playoff round with Adam Dunn in the lineup.

Trade him, trade him now, get anything you can, but get him out of here.....


:rolleyes: :laugh:

Milezinni
10-19-2005, 02:33 PM
Did you see my reputation.

Im at -6.

That is hilarious.

And some guy just compared Adam Dunn to Mike Schmidt.

Man oh man, what are you guys watching?

Oh yeah, they can bash me all they want, but if I say anything at all about them I get banned.

In fact, I am sitting on a permanent ban because, behind the scenes, I have been in some e-mail correspondense with the moderator and they really want to bounce me.

Could be any minute.

flyer85
10-19-2005, 02:34 PM
I find M entertaining because he is a chameleon. He can only hide his true identity for so long. He tried to hide his true agenda in stats are misleading, blah, blah blah. However, eventually the truth emerges, he has a personal dislike for Dunn. Why not be upfront about it in the first place?

Instead obfuscation and trolling are the order of the day.

paintmered
10-19-2005, 02:48 PM
Nice piling on, guys. Especially WilyMoRocks. That's a direct personal attack if I ever saw one but he'll get away with it 'cause he's on the 'right side'.



I agree.

The personal attacks need to stop now - from both sides.

Cedric
10-19-2005, 02:58 PM
WilyMoRocks is over the line more often than not. Maybe I'm just miffed because he gave me neg points for not liking the Kentucky Wildcats and disagreeing on their schedule strength. Oh well, nothing like someone that doesn't understand the system.

paintmered
10-19-2005, 03:00 PM
WilyMoRocks is over the line more often than not. Maybe I'm just miffed because he gave me neg points for not liking the Kentucky Wildcats and disagreeing on their schedule strength. Oh well, nothing like someone that doesn't understand the system.

:bang:

Take it private. Posts like these have no place for the public forums. If you disagree with a neg he gave you, take it up with him and him alone.

Cedric
10-19-2005, 03:03 PM
Yeah, sometimes people need to be called out in public for being wrong. Happens to the best of us.
It's not a big deal either way, was just saying.

paintmered
10-19-2005, 03:06 PM
Yeah, sometimes people need to be called out in public for being wrong.

No they don't. And trying to pile up on someone in the wrong will not win you any brownie points. The best thing you can say is nothing at all in situations like these.

Cedric
10-19-2005, 03:07 PM
Brownie points from a Redszone moderator? What do I get?

You win boss.

Tony Cloninger
10-19-2005, 03:12 PM
I think the Schmidt and Dunn comparisons are very good.....obviously MS was a very good glove man.....maybe more of a red ass than Dunn is now....but i see Dunn heading towards MS type numbers for his career...providing no injuries.

flyer85
10-19-2005, 03:16 PM
As a note, Dunn's PECOTA top comps are Glaus, McGriff and Thome. However, the similarity score is low(23).

Mike Schmidt in his age 25 season
.249BA 38HR 95RBI 93RS .367OBP .523SLG 180Ks and 101BBs

Rather similar age 25 offensive seasons.

larryboy
10-19-2005, 03:23 PM
I believe Dunn should be signed long term.
He's a classic #4 hitter. His power is very impressive and power may become a commodity that is much harder to find. Power numbers have already begun to come down league wide. True HR hitters won't be as common as they were in the 1990's.

He has not reached his expected peak. This team is rebuilding and young players should be the foundation of an rebuild project.

His fielding is not a positive but his position is. True mashers with no glove can be hidden in LF, 1B, and DH reasonably effectively. Dunn can do all three spots (yeah I know no DH in NL).

Sign Dunn.

Milezinni
10-19-2005, 03:36 PM
I find M entertaining because he is a chameleon. He can only hide his true identity for so long. He tried to hide his true agenda in stats are misleading, blah, blah blah. However, eventually the truth emerges, he has a personal dislike for Dunn. Why not be upfront about it in the first place?

Instead obfuscation and trolling are the order of the day.

You guys jump to more conclusions than Eddie Cochran.

Didn't I say, and I flat out used the exact words, I LIKE ADAM DUNN?!?

My argument is that he is a one dimensional hitter with too many holes in his approach, and absolutely is NOT what the Reds need right now. I think he would be a better fit on an AL team with a more balanced attack.

I have also said that I would like to see a complete overhaul of the roster. The "core" team has been together for 5 season now, and they can't seem to win.
Dunn, Kearns, Casey, LaRue, and Griffey have all been regulars in the "Reds offense" (pretty much the #3,4,5 and 6) and the team can't seem to win.

Despite the fact that there have been an absolute ton of pitching changes over that span and it just doesn't seem to work out.
And yes, I am aware that all the pitchers have one thing in common, no or little control.

My point is, why not just start over?

In the six seasons since we even came close to a playoff berth we have gone through 3 managers.
Two were fired, and the new one just got an extension.

Countless changes to the pitching personnel and yet the same result. Well, the one constant is the starting catcher. Jason LaRue.

I am not saying it is his fault, but, why not change for the sake of change. Are they affraid without LaRue the pitching will be even worse? Worse than what we have gotten.

If you miss the playoffs consistently does it really matter that you are 10 games under .500 or 20?

flyer85
10-19-2005, 03:42 PM
You guys jump to more conclusions than Eddie Cochran.
You are an absolute laugh riot. Johnnie is probably rolling over in his grave.

flyer85
10-19-2005, 03:45 PM
Didn't I say, and I flat out used the exact words, I LIKE ADAM DUNN?!?I guess

"lumoxing country boy"

is a term of endearment.

westofyou
10-19-2005, 03:49 PM
My argument is that he is a one dimensional hitter with too many holes in his approach, and absolutely is NOT what the Reds need right now.
Holy Bill DeWitt!!!

CINCINNATI REDS
ALL YEARS
ALL POSITIONS
EXTRA BASE HITS >= 75
RUNS >= 100
RBI >= 100
OBA >= .380


T1 Frank Robinson 2
T1 Adam Dunn 2
T3 Ted Kluszewski 1
T3 George Foster 1

OldRightHander
10-19-2005, 03:54 PM
No they don't. And trying to pile up on someone in the wrong will not win you any brownie points. The best thing you can say is nothing at all in situations like these.

I'm with you there. You can attack a person't arguments without attacking the person. I might not agree with Milezinni on much of anything, but I will only speak ill of his arguments and not of him as a person. For all I know, he could be a fine upstanding fellow with a few opinions that I don't agree with. He is a Reds fan after all, so he can't be all bad.

RFS62
10-19-2005, 03:56 PM
Holy Bill DeWitt!!!

CINCINNATI REDS
ALL YEARS
ALL POSITIONS
EXTRA BASE HITS >= 75
RUNS >= 100
RBI >= 100
OBA >= .380


T1 Frank Robinson 2
T1 Adam Dunn 2
T3 Ted Kluszewski 1
T3 George Foster 1




That Pappas kid in Baltimore, that's who we need. I know he's a clubhouse lawyer, but we need to make a move here.

flyer85
10-19-2005, 03:57 PM
That Pappas kid in Baltimore, that's who we need. I know he's a clubhouse lawyer, but we need to make a move here.we need that Rich Hill from the Cubs.

gonelong
10-19-2005, 04:19 PM
You guys jump to more conclusions than Eddie Cochran.

Didn't I say, and I flat out used the exact words, I LIKE ADAM DUNN?!?



:laugh:


Only if you like winning....

Dunn is the worst thing to ever happen to the Cincinnati Reds. A total Bowden snowjob. "Hey Reds fans, look what I found while parading around the Texas backwoods looking for refugee boys. Isn't he dreamy, isn't he awe inspiring?"
And all the fans go "aaaaaahhhhhhhhh", like 5 year olds at a fireworks show.

Nothing but a slugger. A big, lumoxing, country boy that, IF he gets a hold of one, it goes, a long, long way. Which for some inexplicable reason truely impresses fans who should no better.

Jeremy Burnitz looks like Willie Mays compared to this kid. And don't get me wrong, I like Adam Dunn, a really do, but he is not what the Reds need, or need to spend their money on.

But in no way is he, or in my opinion, ever will be, a hitter!! No way, not after 5 seasons in the big leagues and has improved on very little since he came up.
It's taken him 5 years to make the kind of alterations even a bushleaguer will make in his first three series.

One dimensional, #6, probably a career #7, that should be traded while the GM's with that awe in their eyes still believe this is the 1990's-steroid-induced-"chicks-dig-the-long-ball"-sit-back-and-wait-for-the-three-run-homerun mentality rule the airwaves so to speak..

And I'll go one farther, since I couldn't care less about my reputation, that the Cincinnati Reds will NEVER win a playoff round with Adam Dunn in the lineup.

Trade him, trade him now, get anything you can, but get him out of here.....

I think you have some pretty severe credibility issues.

GL

Blimpie
10-19-2005, 04:20 PM
I have also said that I would like to see a complete overhaul of the roster. The "core" team has been together for 5 season now, and they can't seem to win.
Dunn, Kearns, Casey, LaRue, and Griffey have all been regulars in the "Reds offense" (pretty much the #3,4,5 and 6) and the team can't seem to win.I suppose the fact that both Griffey and Kearns have missed as many games as they have played in during that time period is of little consequence to your theory.

Blimpie
10-19-2005, 04:23 PM
You are an absolute laugh riot. Johnnie is probably rolling over in his grave."If the rash generalization does not fit, then you must never admit......" That your real name is Sybil

Milezinni
10-19-2005, 06:35 PM
I suppose the fact that both Griffey and Kearns have missed as many games as they have played in during that time period is of little consequence to your theory.

That's why they should trade them.
It's the CORE of my theory.

Although, of all of them, I would like to keep Jr,keeping Griffey would help attendance.

pedro
10-19-2005, 06:51 PM
You are an absolute laugh riot. Johnnie is probably rolling over in his grave.

Summertime Blues

(Eddie Cochran)

Well I'm gonna raise a fuss
And I'm gonna raise a holler
About workin' all summer
Just tryin' to earn a dollar
Well, I went to my boss
Who governs me
He said, "No, dice, bud
You gotta work late"

Sometime I wonder
What I'm gonnna do
There ain't no cure
For the summertime blues

Well, my mom and papa told me
Now you better earn some money
If one of you is gonna go
Ridin' next Sunday
Well, I didn't go to work
I told my boss I was sick
He said, "You can't use the car
'Cause you didn't work a lick"

Sometime I wonder
What I'm gonnna do
There ain't no cure
For the summertime blues

Gonna save two weeks
Gonna have a fine vacation
Gonna take my problem
To the United Nations
Well, I went to my congressman
He sent me back a note
It said, "I''d like to help you, hon
But you're too young to vote"

Sometime I wonder
What I'm gonnna do
There ain't no cure
For the summertime blues

Now there ain't no cure
For the summertime blues
Now there ain't no cure
For the summertime blues

Jr's Boy
10-19-2005, 08:31 PM
Another case of Ken Rosenthal finding enough crap laying around to toss onto a wall hoping something will stick......


You nailed it write on the head.Whats bad is there are morons who believe this crap,whats even worse is he gets paid to write garbage.

M2
10-19-2005, 08:59 PM
Pedro, when you had "Summertime Blues" pulsing through your head, was it the original or the Blue Cheer version?

M2
10-19-2005, 09:03 PM
I think you have some pretty severe credibility issues.

GL


To say the very least. Thanks for demonstrating that most of us do not suffer from instant amnesia.

Ravenlord
10-19-2005, 09:34 PM
how's the weather there in Geneva, Neil?

westofyou
10-19-2005, 10:04 PM
Pedro, when you had "Summertime Blues" pulsing through your head, was it the original or the Blue Cheer version?

I went to a party in Sonoma once and the lead guitar player from Blue Cheer and I shared a beer, he was quite washed out.

And I bet Pedro was hearing the Who's version...

BoydsOfSummer
10-20-2005, 12:01 AM
The Rush version is neato too. They also do a killer version of "The Seeker".

pedro
10-20-2005, 12:10 AM
Pedro, when you had "Summertime Blues" pulsing through your head, was it the original or the Blue Cheer version?


original.

the who's too

Cigar2
10-20-2005, 08:50 PM
A quick drive by. To say Nope still don't like the ideal of trading Dunn. Unless its one the Usual Suspects of Young Stud pitching and none of these could bes or might bes for the Reds.
No sir with the Reds of pitching anyone we do get from some else will most likely blowout their arm and become either salad tossing middle of the rotation guy or a never was both highly possible with Reds luck.

BadFundamentals
10-20-2005, 09:34 PM
Welcome to the Redszone Milezinni.
A site "for Reds fans by Reds fans"
Look forward to talking baseball/reds with you.

Unfortunately, I see your reputation has suffered already :rolleyes: Allow me to offer you a little advice. Don't fret. You can rebuild it just by changing your thinking and getting on the "right side" of the discussions (as remdog eluded to). I'm sure once you start thinking "right" you'll have more friends than you'll know what to do with AND a robust reputation. :thumbup: Remember there's nothing more important than your reputation Milezini.

As a redszone member, allow me to apologize in advance for any hateful private messages you may receive or (after the fact if you've already received them) from other members. There are after all rules here which prohibit "personal attacks" at other members. So I've found what some folks do is private message their "personal attacks". Pretty clever/creative thinking huh? Feel free to borrow my policy of posting those private messages in public forums. However, be warned, that really sets off some folks. Apparently, they think it's ok to send rude, hateful private messages to people, but (and I quote) you should "NEVER" post a private message in a public forum.

Also, I understand how you feel about being warned about being "banned". I must acknowledge I too have felt those pains. In fact, I have been prohibited to post about certain topics else even I will suffer that banishment you eluded to or dare I say.....worse. As a matter of fact, I'd like to share a few thoughts with you in this current discussion but again, did I mention that?.....oh I think I already shared that with you.

Let me close with a little more advice. There is ALWAYS a right and a wrong Milezini. Also, remember EVERYTHING in baseball can be measured by a "metric". Forget everything you have learned in your lifetime of playing, following and learning about baseball because none of that means anything today now that formulas have been devised to measure everything. Also, there is no room for "gut feelings" or opinions based on observation and experience. I know I know....pro baseball at all levels is filled with scouts, coaches etc...who have no idea what a "runs created" formula is. But forget that Milezini. That was yesterday. Grab your favorite calculator/spreadsheet program and happy crunching......... :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: