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LoganBuck
11-25-2005, 03:27 PM
I heard on 700 this morning around 8:30-9AM that one of the new owners, is pursuing the possibility of buying a radio station in town to air the Reds games. The contract between WLW and the Reds ends after the 2006 season. According to the report, it was stated that this potential move is similar to what the Cardinals did last year.

They only aired this once. Matt700WLW, what are you hearing?

I would really hate this because most AM stations in Ohio have the broadcast power of a plastic toy walkie talkie at night. WLW is the flame thrower. Perhaps this is a move to get all of us on XM or Sirrus?

traderumor
11-25-2005, 04:10 PM
Regardless of the truth to this particular rumor, hopefully that is a sign that they understand and are addressing the vast potential market instead of the "small market" blues that we've heard as an excuse from this regime.

REDREAD
11-25-2005, 04:14 PM
It might be a blessing in disguise. The new owners might set up a more far ranging radio network. They might actually try to get some of the games on local TV too.

As far as I'm concerned, they have free reign to change anything in the "status quo".. Allen has done just about everything wrong.

Red Leader
11-25-2005, 04:17 PM
It might be a blessing in disguise. The new owners might set up a more far ranging radio network. They might actually try to get some of the games on local TV too.

As far as I'm concerned, they have free reign to change anything in the "status quo".. Allen has done just about everything wrong.


I agree. Probably the worst thing they could do would be to leave things the way they are now.

LoganBuck
11-25-2005, 04:34 PM
I agree change is needed, but how many of you grew up with Marty and Joe, listening to them at night, as you fell asleep? If you take that away you will lose both young fans and old people who don't have satellite or cable.


The new owners might set up a more far ranging radio network.

That may be true, the problem is that once nightfall happens people in outlying areas get cut off because AM stations must lower the power of their signal. I live 15 miles from Sidney, 20 miles from Bellefontaine, and 25 miles from Lima and I cannot get a signal on my best radio from any of them after dusk. 700 WLW is one of the few stations that can broadcast at full power after dark. That is why they are called "The nation's station."

KronoRed
11-25-2005, 04:49 PM
Put em on 1360


;)

traderumor
11-25-2005, 06:10 PM
I agree change is needed, but how many of you grew up with Marty and Joe, listening to them at night, as you fell asleep? If you take that away you will lose both young fans and old people who don't have satellite or cable.



That may be true, the problem is that once nightfall happens people in outlying areas get cut off because AM stations must lower the power of their signal. I live 15 miles from Sidney, 20 miles from Bellefontaine, and 25 miles from Lima and I cannot get a signal on my best radio from any of them after dusk. 700 WLW is one of the few stations that can broadcast at full power after dark. That is why they are called "The nation's station."

You have a computer, so mlb radio is a very inexpensive option, about $15 a year. I would hope that if they go to a lesser signal for the flagship, that they would have more affiliates, which doesn't solve you problem, necessarily, but may bring more fans in.

And I grew up listening to Marty and Joe, but I won't quit listening when both of them are gone. Marty needs to retire, anyhow ;)

Unassisted
11-25-2005, 06:14 PM
Just so this thread doesn't go in a direction it shouldn't, a point needs to be made. Marty is an an employee of the Reds, not WLW. If the broadcasts leave WLW, it doesn't necessarily mean Marty will no longer be part of the broadcasts.

Jr's Boy
11-25-2005, 06:24 PM
Heck one of the posters here told me about WKKI fm in Ohio,so i get the crystal clear FM radio Reds games.Listen live on the net for free.

SandyD
11-25-2005, 06:26 PM
If it weren't for WLW, I might have become a Cards fan.

RFS62
11-25-2005, 06:53 PM
With the new ownership coming over from St. Louis, I'm sure they've heard all the arguments pro and con for owning their own radio station.

Wouldn't surprise me a bit.

KronoRed
11-25-2005, 06:55 PM
If it weren't for WLW, I might have become a Cards fan.
:eek:

westofyou
11-25-2005, 07:07 PM
With the new ownership coming over from St. Louis, I'm sure they've heard all the arguments pro and con for owning their own radio station.

Wouldn't surprise me a bit.
Yep, having a media outlet that you run and charge ads for beats the snot out of paying a 3rd party to do it for you, all whilst you get aligned to the Furmans and Cunnigham's of the world.

No thanks, real money is to be made in this business, that's why Powell Crosley started WLW, the Crosley of the 30's wouldn't let the Reds be in a poor media contract, but the older Crosley would... Lindner is alot like the older Crosley was.

Time to change more than the players.

RFS62
11-25-2005, 07:12 PM
They keep leaking out little crumbs of hope, hints that some new thinking is on the horizon.

I hope it's not a mirage.

WVRedsFan
11-25-2005, 08:09 PM
RE: WLW...

The good thing about it would be the loss of Tracy Jones and Andy Furman post game shows (and pre-game shows). Drives me nuts.

The bad thing about replacing WLW is the loss of the 50,000 watt station that carries the Reds through about (I forget how many) states. XM is wonderful, but not everyone who would miss the WLW signal has XM. I think you would lose fans instead of gaining them. Up until about five years ago, we always had a local station carrrying the Reds. No more. It's WLW or XM, and sometimes I'm not near an XM radio. I would miss those games.

Reds Nd2
11-25-2005, 08:23 PM
I heard on 700 this morning around 8:30-9AM that one of the new owners, is pursuing the possibility of buying a radio station in town to air the Reds games. The contract between WLW and the Reds ends after the 2006 season.

According to the Reds Media Guide, the current radio contract with WLW runs through 2007.

SandyD
11-25-2005, 08:35 PM
You know, if the Reds aren't on WLW, more smaller stations will most likely pick up the games.

And I understand the point about the ad revenue, etc. And want the new ownership to think outside the box. They have to.

When the Hornets came to New Orleans, the local cable provider created a local cable sports channel to cover the Hornets games. I call it the Hornets channel, but I really like the bizarre mix of programming we get on that channel. Never quite know what you're going to find. They had HS volleyball on last week.

If local broadcast of the Reds games doesn't work, maybe they could work out something with the cable providers for a cable access channel.

Caveat Emperor
11-25-2005, 09:34 PM
I don't know what to think of this kinda news...

On one hand, I have this love of all things 700 WLW. It's like a giant broadcasting playground with no adult supervision whatosever. People step up to the microphone and just rant about whatever comes to mind -- callers develop on-air personas and get airtime for their causes and it all plays out like a soap opera on the airwaves. You may disagree with the people, you may hate them or their points of view, but make no mistake: the Bill Cunninghams and Andy Furhmans of 700 WLW are very good at what they do.

But, on the other hand, the circus is bad for business as far as the Reds are concerned. They've become part of the Cult of WLW, and as part of the very image of the team changing, it'd be good for them to move forward as well. We live in a world of XM Radios, internet broadcasting, and satellite/cable TV game packages -- having a team on the 50,000 watt station doesn't mean what it used to in terms of national fans. People follow teams because of players and win-loss records, not just because they happen to be the only team they can pick up on the radio.

On the whole, I think change is good for the Reds, in this instance.

Krusty
11-25-2005, 09:44 PM
During the Big Red Machine Era, didn't the Reds have their own radio network?

MartyFan
11-25-2005, 10:13 PM
I may not know lot about Baseball transactions, trades and so on...what I do know is media.

If the Reds were too move away from 700 WLW it would be a very good thing because of the revenue it would generate with more affiliates...that would be even more significant if the team owned the flagship station and network that it broadcast on.

IslandRed
11-25-2005, 10:13 PM
700 WLW is one of the few stations that can broadcast at full power after dark. That is why they are called "The nation's station."

"The Nation's Station" thing started in the '30s when WLW was given an experimental permit to broadcast with 500 kilowatts -- ten times its current power. In those days, before there were so many other stations and so much electrical interference, much of the country could get WLW even in the daytime. Effectively, it was a one-station network.

MartyFan
11-25-2005, 10:15 PM
"The Nation's Station" thing started in the '30s when WLW was given an experimental permit to broadcast with 500 kilowatts -- ten times its current power. In those days, before there were so many other stations and so much electrical interference, much of the country could get WLW even in the daytime. Effectively, it was a one-station network.

Also during both world wars WLW was used to broadcast pro-american propaganda into Germany which contributed to the number of German immigrants in the Cincinnati area.

I got to take a tour of their tour location a few years ago...they should open a museum...they have so many of the old transmitters still...pretty awesome.

Chip R
11-25-2005, 11:28 PM
During the Big Red Machine Era, didn't the Reds have their own radio network?

They still do.

LoganBuck
11-25-2005, 11:30 PM
You have a computer, so mlb radio is a very inexpensive option, about $15 a year. I would hope that if they go to a lesser signal for the flagship, that they would have more affiliates, which doesn't solve you problem, necessarily, but may bring more fans in.

And I grew up listening to Marty and Joe, but I won't quit listening when both of them are gone. Marty needs to retire, anyhow ;)

Living in the sticks also means no broadband! I am still on dialup, for now and the foreseeable future. So basically no MLB radio for me. I am not worrying to much about it for me. I do have access to 94.3 FM which I can listen to. I am more worried for the young fans ages 7-~14 that don't have access to XM, and the elderly who most definately do not have XM. If they don't live somewhere near a more local broadcast location they will be shut out. I just don't want to see the young fans (future revenue) or old fans (current and former revenue) shut out.

RFS62
11-25-2005, 11:33 PM
The Reds radio network used to be widespread beyond the range of WLW. If the new ownership sees the benefit of re-establishing that kind of reach, far beyond the WLW signal, it would bring in revenue and reach more fans.

That would see to me to be the best case scenario. Whether or not it's the plan, I guess we'll see.

redsfanfalcon
11-25-2005, 11:47 PM
700 can be reached in even Florida at night. We shouldn't even worry about having to have XM (which I have) or paying 15 bucks a year for a computer connection through mlb.com. This would be a way to cut down fan base in my opinion. I hope that all the grief that was made of the switch in St. Louis will keep the new owners from making the same mistake here.

MartyFan
11-25-2005, 11:47 PM
The Reds do have a radio network but it is operated and managed if I am not mistaken by Clear Channel...if they could bring the management of thatin house they would make a lot of money.

So, yes they do have a network but I am not certain they control it and the advertising on it.

jnwohio
11-26-2005, 12:25 AM
Where is the FM station that carries the Reds. At work, MLB is blocked; the enviroment blocks AM signals but FM comes thru nicely. I have looked for the Reds on FM for these reasons (without luck).

Having seen that the folks in StLouis were not just bluffing, ClearChannel Mgmnt in Cincy might be more ameanable to cutting a deal which would keep the Reds on WLW while sweetening the pot for the team.

Unassisted
11-26-2005, 02:17 AM
Where is the FM station that carries the Reds. From the FAQ (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31262), here is a link to the list of the Reds Radio Network Affiliates. The only FM affiliates in Ohio are WKKI in Celina and WBVI in Findlay.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cin/schedule/cin_schedule_affiliates.jsp

Reds Nd2
11-26-2005, 02:21 AM
Living in the sticks also means no broadband! I am still on dialup, for now and the foreseeable future. So basically no MLB radio for me.

You don't need broadband to stream MLB audio. Dial-up will work just fine for that. Trust me on this. I had the audio package when I first got my computer and had dial-up. The only problems I ever had came from the MLB side. Even if the WLW feed got dropped, I could always listen to the other teams feed. No blackouts with the audio feed either.

I've dropped hard earned coin at Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus, RedsZone, RealOne, and a couple of porn sights, but the best money I ever spent online was for the MLB audio/video packages.

bucksfan
11-26-2005, 10:19 AM
I would hope they would develop a wider range of affiliates as some of you have mentioned. Anything tied to a computer is not of interest to me. The reason I can remain so much a fan is because I can listen while I'm mowing the lawn (a 3-4 hr job!), driving around in my truck, working in the garage - all places where I already have perfectly fine-working radios. One fantastic thing about following the Reds, and it has been this way my whole life, is it is free and easy to do. Not that I wouldn't or don't every so often spend some money on my fanaticism, but I hope to be able to continue to listen for free, at home or in the car, at least while I live in the same state!

traderumor
11-26-2005, 10:33 AM
I think the whole idea, beyond the tradition of listening to the Reds on WLW, centers on increasing the current radio market. For example, here in Newark, the closest choices are 610 out of Columbus, which is not a real strong signal, and a station out of Zanesville that you can only get in the east and southeast part of the county. The only team carried on any of the local radio stations is Cleveland. Newark/Licking County is about 80,000 people I think, and is up for grabs as a market depending on who has the better product. I think reaching into markets like that would have a much bigger upside than who the flagship is , how powerful it is, and if a few Jr's and Grandpas are missed.

marcshoe
11-26-2005, 11:10 AM
From the FAQ (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31262), here is a link to the list of the Reds Radio Network Affiliates. The only FM affiliates in Ohio are WKKI in Celina and WBVI in Findlay.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cin/schedule/cin_schedule_affiliates.jsp

WVOW in Logan, West Virginia, is also on the list, but this station is primarily a Braves affiliate, and only carries the Reds games if Atlanta's not playing. :angry:

The station I have listened to most of my life, WCHS in Charleston, has farmed out all daytime games to a lower-power sister station that I can't pick up where I live, and, for reasons I don't quite understand, the main station is now nearly impossible to pick up in the evenings. When I'm close enough to Huntington I listen to the affiliate there, but most of the time, when I'm in my car I end up listening to the games on WLW, which you can pick up here even in the daytime.

I get the feeling that sattelite radio may be where I go in the future anyway, though. Too bad. I'm an ex DJ and have always been a huge fan of local radio, but it seems to be going the way of the dinosaur and the regularly scheduled doubleheader.

Chip R
11-26-2005, 11:20 AM
I've got mixed feelings about this if this were to happen. Even though I'm not from around here I am nostalgic about tuning into WLW at night and listening to the Reds. As previously stated there are a lot of folks who tune into WLW to listen to Reds games when they are out and no longer having it on WLW would be quite a change. Also we don't know if this St. Louis situation is going to work out. Someone mentioned earlier that there was quite a bit of controversy about this. Just because something works in St. Louis, doesn't mean it's going to work here. If they did this would that necessarily mean there would be more affiliates on the Reds network? Why get more affiliates when they can rely on satellite radio?

On the other hand, if this can get more revenue in the ball club, that would be excellent. If there were more affiliates that might grow the market some.

If I were a betting man, I'd say this isn't going to happen. De Witt might have been able to do it in StL because he doesn't live there and isn't part of the business community there. Castellini and the Williamses are residents here and are part of the businesss community. This would seriously rock the boat here if that were to happen. Most of the stations around here are owned by Clear Channel. Would Clear Channel even sell them a station? Otherwise they might have to settle for some low watt station you can barely pick up at night outside of I-275.

westofyou
11-26-2005, 11:38 AM
Here in Portland we get the Mariners on affilates, the Giants too. Can't pick up either of their local signals. The way things lean here is the Giants are the team of the older folks from the 60's and 70's and the M's are the fans of alot of younger folks. All because of the radio. But not because of wide ranging signals, instead they let thei marketing department spread a web over the region to catch fans. I'm old enough to appreciate the power of radio, I've caught games in the last year from Dallas and Houston up here in the north woods. However that day is over, the radio creeping into second tier as a marketing tool, behind TV and the Internet. The Braves and the Cubs realized this 2 decades ago and now they swim in cash.

The Reds have the Banana Phone and a monkey on their back called mediocrity.

Yachtzee
11-26-2005, 12:13 PM
Sure, if the Reds left WLW they could pick up more local affiliates. However, chances are, those of us who live outside of the Reds' "market area" will be out of luck. WLW is strong enough so that I can get it in (staticky) during the day, and crystal clear in the evening just north of Akron, OH. I do most of my listening in the car. If the Reds leave WLW, it's highly unlikely that the Indians will allow the Reds to seek out local affiliates in the Akron area. Meanwhile, the Indians will still be able to boom out their broadcasts on 50,000 watt WTAM, which has a pretty far reach south. So not only will the Indians have the benefit of having a better run organization, but they will also have a stronger radio outlet. Honestly, I don't know how much of an effect radio even has on fan interest these days, but it raises the question of whether you wish to risk futher erosion of your extended fan base just to get a better deal in your home market.

I don't know. I don't really care much for the WLW radio personalities, but I do like the fact that I can get the Reds on WLW all the way to my in-laws' driveway in Bath, NY. I can't afford XM satellite radio and won't be able to for quite a few years yet, so if the Reds leave WLW, my days of listening to the games in the car, something I've done for over 30 years, will be over.

Team Clark
11-26-2005, 12:26 PM
38 State Coverage is hard to beat. No other station is even remotely close. XM is good but has a lag to it. I tried to listen to my XM at a game last year and my XM was two pitches behind. IMO getting away from WLW would be a mistake.

Also consider that the big wigs at WLW are no dummies. Leak the possible change now and get the public on your side. Ask Barry Larkin how well that works?? LOL!

westofyou
11-26-2005, 12:30 PM
38 State Coverage is hard to beat.Located on the cusp of the praire has as much to do with that as anything.

Worrying about signal coverage would be fine if they were still running those day game trains in on sunday from the surrounding states.

But they aren't.

Team Clark
11-26-2005, 12:36 PM
Located on the cusp of the praire has as much to do with that as anything.

Worrying about signal coverage would be fine if they were still running those day game trains in on sunday from the surrounding states.

But they aren't.

Very true. Times are a changin'

creek14
11-26-2005, 12:39 PM
I don't know why anyone would want much of anything regarding this team to stay status quo (except the left fielder, of course).

The small market mentality has to go. Can WLW. Sign on affiliates across Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, W. Virginia. Expand the market back to where it use to be. Presto change-o, you're no longer the small market that the unholy trifecta of Lindner, Allen and O'Brien whine about.

SandyD
11-26-2005, 12:57 PM
How do you sell Reds games to a station in Tennessee? You have to compete with the Cards, Cubs, and Braves. Even up in Northern Ohio. Would a Toledo station pick up the Reds games?

How many more people are you going to reach with local affiliates than with the WLW signal? I'm just curious. I guess you'd bring in more revenue with lots of smaller affiliates rather than one large one. If you can get enough affiliates. I'm not sure how you accomplish that.

creek14
11-26-2005, 01:03 PM
How do you sell Reds games to a station in Tennessee? You have to compete with the Cards, Cubs, and Braves. Even up in Northern Ohio. Would a Toledo station pick up the Reds games?

How many more people are you going to reach with local affiliates than with the WLW signal? I'm just curious. I guess you'd bring in more revenue with lots of smaller affiliates rather than one large one. If you can get enough affiliates. I'm not sure how you accomplish that.
Back in the day you could drive to FL and pick up the Reds on local stations from Ohio to the GA line.

And no offense Sandy, but that's what's wrong with the thinking of the Reds - how can we, the little ole Reds, compete with the big boys like the Cards and the Cubs and the Braves. Well, you just get out there and do it. Thinking we/they can't won't get us anywhere - except years and years of the same ole excuses about being a small market.

Unassisted
11-26-2005, 01:26 PM
I think the biggest obstacle to getting more radio stations to carry the baseball games of any team is the complexity it adds to programming a radio station.

Games air at different times of the day, so they're alienating listeners all over the schedule who aren't baseball fans by pre-empting their favorite program. (Can't miss Art Bell!) The start time is inconsistent, which makes it harder to sell local commercial time within the games, since audience levels and commercial ad rates vary at different times of the day. The local commercial insertions happen between specific innings, rather than specific times, requiring an operator to follow the game closely enough to know what inning it's in and insert the commercials. The end time is unpredictable, which rules out automation, so that same operator must also follow the game closely enough to switch the station over to the next program.

In this era of consolidation, the Clear Channels of the world look for ways to automate and reduce the number of person-hours required to keep a station on the air. Baseball works against that. Not just 12 or 13 Saturdays a year like college football, but a minimum of 162 days a year. It's a very unfriendly addition to a programming lineup.

FWIW, most of what I posted here also applies to broadcast TV.

SandyD
11-26-2005, 01:43 PM
Back in the day you could drive to FL and pick up the Reds on local stations from Ohio to the GA line.

And no offense Sandy, but that's what's wrong with the thinking of the Reds - how can we, the little ole Reds, compete with the big boys like the Cards and the Cubs and the Braves. Well, you just get out there and do it. Thinking we/they can't won't get us anywhere - except years and years of the same ole excuses about being a small market.

No offense taken. I'm asking the question because ... I have not idea how to do it. I'm curious about how they would go about it. Not saying that it's a reason not to try.

The question is ... how do you make the Reds attractive to a station in an area that may not have many Reds fans to begin with.

westofyou
11-26-2005, 01:47 PM
The question is ... how do you make the Reds attractive to a station in an area that may not have many Reds fans to begin with.Just win baby.

And look forward, not backwards...

SandyD
11-26-2005, 01:49 PM
unassisted, that's why I think the "Hornets channel" on our cable access was a great approach. We don't have many broadcast channels that are truly independent, and I doubt you could pick them up without cable anyway.

I think that would work well for the Reds. Unless there's a plethora of cable providers in the area.

TeamBoone
11-26-2005, 01:51 PM
They keep leaking out little crumbs of hope, hints that some new thinking is on the horizon.

I hope it's not a mirage.

Me too, 62.

A lot of people on this board have also had great ideas. Why not share them with the new ownership group? Does anyone have any idea how to contact them? Get those suggestions out there to the people that count.

BTW, if 700 WLW goes, I won't be able to listen while camping in the bowels of upstate NY for two weeks in the summer. That said, I'm for whatever is best for the Reds.

Anybody know how much a subscription to satellite radio costs?

SandyD
11-26-2005, 01:51 PM
Just win baby.

And look forward, not backwards...

I'm all for that.

:beerme:

Chip R
11-26-2005, 01:53 PM
Also consider that the big wigs at WLW are no dummies. Leak the possible change now and get the public on your side. Ask Barry Larkin how well that works?? LOL!

The same Barry Larkin that has been exiled to Washington D.C.?

Team Clark
11-26-2005, 02:10 PM
The same Barry Larkin that has been exiled to Washington D.C.?


No, he did that to himself. I am talking about the first time he appealed to the masses and received a healthy extension. Which I was all for. I hope WLW does the same.

Matt700wlw
11-26-2005, 05:51 PM
I'm not hearing anymore of this than posted here. However, I'm not sure the new owners can get much bigger than The Big One. They could be trying to make a WGN type of thing out of this with radio and TV, which would bring in more revenue, which would allow them to spend more money on better players, and could ultimately make the team better. However, 50,000 watts is about as good as it gets.

It should be interesting to see what happens....and if it does, what happens to my gig!!!!

KronoRed
11-26-2005, 05:52 PM
It should be interesting to see what happens....and if it does, what happens to my gig!!!!
You'll always have a job here Matt :devil:

Caveat Emperor
11-26-2005, 06:26 PM
"The Nation's Station" thing started in the '30s when WLW was given an experimental permit to broadcast with 500 kilowatts -- ten times its current power. In those days, before there were so many other stations and so much electrical interference, much of the country could get WLW even in the daytime. Effectively, it was a one-station network.

As far as I know, the old transmitter is still operational over near Mason...

Maybe, in the current climate allowing massive telecommunications deregulation, the time is now to petition Congress and the FCC to allow WLW back to being a national radio station. :evil:

That'd get some new fans coast-to-coast!

Redsland
11-26-2005, 06:26 PM
No, he did that to himself. I am talking about the first time he appealed to the masses and received a healthy extension.
Or the second time, when he got his final (one-year) deal.

wheels
11-26-2005, 06:27 PM
Me too, 62.

A lot of people on this board have also had great ideas. Why not share them with the new ownership group? Does anyone have any idea how to contact them? Get those suggestions out there to the people that count.

BTW, if 700 WLW goes, I won't be able to listen while camping in the bowels of upstate NY for two weeks in the summer. That said, I'm for whatever is best for the Reds.

Anybody know how much a subscription to satellite radio costs?

Forty bucks for the apparatus thingy, and twelve bucks per month.

I love it, but I can't really plug that thing in on the back porch, and I'm not in my car long enough to really get into listening to the game unless I'm on a road trip, which really makes that XM sucker all the more valueable.

RFS62
11-26-2005, 06:50 PM
Forty bucks for the apparatus thingy, and twelve bucks per month.

I love it, but I can't really plug that thing in on the back porch, and I'm not in my car long enough to really get into listening to the game unless I'm on a road trip, which really makes that XM sucker all the more valueable.


You actually can plug it up on your back porch. Many of the units broadcast to any FM radio nearby.

wheels
11-26-2005, 08:19 PM
You actually can plug it up on your back porch. Many of the units broadcast to any FM radio nearby.

Where would I get the power supply?

All that came with mine is the cigarette lighter adapter.

RFS62
11-26-2005, 08:23 PM
Where would I get the power supply?

All that came with mine is the cigarette lighter adapter.

I've got a Sky Fi 2 with a home base unit and a car base. You can move the radio part back and forth between the two. And you can either hook it up directly to a stereo or have it broadcast to an FM station.

WVRedsFan
11-26-2005, 08:33 PM
How do you sell Reds games to a station in Tennessee? You have to compete with the Cards, Cubs, and Braves. Even up in Northern Ohio. Would a Toledo station pick up the Reds games?

How many more people are you going to reach with local affiliates than with the WLW signal? I'm just curious. I guess you'd bring in more revenue with lots of smaller affiliates rather than one large one. If you can get enough affiliates. I'm not sure how you accomplish that.

Up until about ten years ago, we had Reds stations all over the place. WCHS in Charleston, WVOW in Logan, WJLS in Beckley, WRRL in Rainelle, and many others. Then something happened. WVOW started carrying the Braves, WJLS just dropped the Reds when a Christian group bought them, WRRL did the same, and WCHS quit carrying the games on their flagship when it wasn't convenient, yielding to Rush Limbaugh (for day games) and WVU sports (in the spring and fall). WXAS-FM in Oak Hill picked up the games for three or four seasons and they quit, too. I know the owner of WXAS at the time.

When they picked up the Reds, even though their station was out of my market, I advertised my agency there just so they would have some support and hoping the Reds would remain somewhere in Southern WV. I was one of only a few people willing to do it. It was expensive, but I kept doing it. The station manager and owner told me that they were dropping the Reds and I asked why. The answer I got was that: 1) the Reds PR office was nearly impossible to deal with (I got no real details, but their demands were more than a little station could handle), 2) finding sponsors for the games was difficult because of the cost - 162 games - and the other less long term deals as well as the general feeling that baseball wouldn't be listened to as much as music or news, and 3) they could make more money running a satellite feed of oldie music most evenings with steady sponsorship.

The Reds PR office insisted to me and others that WXAS was still doing the games up even through last year. They still listed them as an affiliate as late as 2003. They don't have a clue.

Now, unless you have XM or WLW, you're out of luck. If you want the Braves, they're just a remote-click away on your local cable service. If you want the Cubs, it's the same thing. Heck, if you want the Pirates, it's on TV nearly every night (Pittsburgh has claimed this area for the Pirates and I have yet to meet one Pirate fan in the half-century I've lived here). So, WLW is the only link to the team a lot of fans have unless they have XM (for a yearly cost of $156), DirecTV (about $179 per season), or cable with the EI option (costs varies, but at least what DTV costs). A lot of folks cannot afford or just will not do any of the three with so much free baseball out there.

I guess what I'm trying to say any stab at getting local affiliates, at least with the current PR staff and mentality, is futile. The Cincinnati Reds have become a local team to the Cincinnati area. Without WLW, it will get even more local and most of the fan base in other states will wilt away.

WVRedsFan
11-26-2005, 08:39 PM
Where would I get the power supply?

All that came with mine is the cigarette lighter adapter.

You can get a home kit at www.xmfan.com for anywhere from $29 to $49. I have 4 XM's. 3 are in cars and 1 in the house. I can't live without them.

MartyFan
11-26-2005, 10:47 PM
First as a radio guy, I hate what Clear Channel and all the other companies who want to be like CC have done to the industry...not really their fault, but they are the monster that walked through the door that the FCC created.

If the Reds moved away from WLW I bet they would pick up more local affiliates...focused on Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, Tenn and WV...there would be pockets in that area that will be missed that are currently covered by WLW but overall the revenues would more than likely go up.

ISn't KMOX in St. Louis also owned by CC? If that is the case I imagine both the new ownership and the current leadership of CC have danced this dance before...I could see the Reds utilizing the network that the Buckeyes run on which would indeed feed the game too northern Ohio including places like Findlay, Lima and Toledo...think, if there is a station you can hear the Buckeyes on you could also hear the Reds on that same station.

Also, gotta wonder if this would help at the grassroots level to increase team/fan interaction...you know it would increase local awareness only because a station is not going to ignore the results and upcoming schedule when they are getting sponsorships to mention that stuff.

Unassisted
11-28-2005, 10:14 AM
Guess this is more than a rumor.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10235535/


Reds could hear new media pitch
Radio, other deals could be on table
By Dan Monk
Cincinnati Business Courier
Updated: 7:00 p.m. ET Nov. 27, 2005

A player to be named later in the Cincinnati Reds' new ownership group could help baseball's oldest franchise lock in future profits with a savvy new media strategy.

Robert Lawrence is a former Taft Broadcasting executive who helped the St. Louis Cardinals team this year buy its own radio station. Now, the Indian Hill resident is said to be pursuing a similar deal for the Reds on behalf of his friend and soon-to-be controlling owner, Robert Castellini.

Lawrence won't discuss his plans, except to say, "It's every kid's dream to be part of a Major League baseball team."

Castellini, through a spokesman, also declined comment on whether Lawrence will join the Reds investment group.

On Nov. 2, Castellini announced plans to buy a controlling interest in the Reds from Cincinnati financier Carl Lindner Jr. Terms of the deal weren't announced but are based on a franchise value for the Reds of $270 million. Castellini is joined in the deal by Thomas and W. Joseph Williams, the son and nephew of former Reds owner William J. Williams. Other investors are expected to join the Castellini group but so far have not been identified.

Local media observers speculate that Lawrence will join the ownership group with the goal of revamping the team's approach to media and marketing,

"He's a creative genius," said Rob Riggsbee, owner of Inside Media, a Newtown-based media-buying consultant. "He knows sports marketing better than anybody. I believe big changes will come."

Lawrence is a local media investor who built a fortune while merging local radio stations over a two-decade span that ended with Clear Channel Communications Inc. as the dominant player in the Cincinnati market.

A few months ago, Lawrence put together a deal in which the Cardinals bought a 50 percent stake in a St. Louis radio station, KTRS-AM 550. As part of the deal, the Cardinals signed an eight-year contract to broadcast Cardinals games. The move was controversial in St. Louis, where Cardinals games had been broadcast on KMOX-AM 1120 for more than 50 years. The relationship had become part of the cultural fabric of St. Louis and produced some of baseball's best play callers: Jack Buck, Harry Caray and Bob Costas among them.

The Reds' ties to WLW date back to 1969 and also have featured some of the game's great broadcasters, including Waite Hoyt, Marty Brennaman and Al Michaels. The team's contract with WLW expires in 2007. The relationship has been strained in recent years, first when Major League Baseball signed a national distribution deal last fall with XM Satellite Radio. More recently, the Reds this year angered WLW's parent, Clear Channel Cincinnati, when it hired away one of WLW's top sales executives, Dave Collins.

Reds Chief Operating Officer John Allen declined to comment for this story.

While Lawrence declined to discuss the particulars of the Reds' rights arrangement with WLW, he was willing to talk about the Cardinals' arrangement with KTRS. He said the KTRS deal makes sense because it allows the Cardinals to maximize local media revenue by cross-selling its in-stadium advertising, promotions and sponsorship packages with air time on KTRS.

"I've been trying to pitch this concept for years," said Lawrence. "There's a natural conflict between the team and the media outlet. The team has a lot of in-stadium opportunities that they're trying to sell to the marketplace. So does the radio station. Intentionally or not, one sells against the other."

Reds radio broadcasts generated about $5.4 million in ad revenue in 2005, according to Riggsbee, who estimates WLW pays $4 million a year in rights fees to the Reds. In addition, the contract has incentive clauses in which the Reds can make up to $750,000 more by winning the World Series.

The Cardinals received $6.7 million in rights fees from KMOX last year, but the Infinity Broadcasting Corp.-owned station wanted to cut that fee to $4.7 million this year, according to published reports. KTRS General Manager Tim Dorsey wouldn't discuss terms of the rights arrangement but said the team and the station regularly make joint sales calls and are "ahead of our pacing" to meet sales projections and profit projections.

"It should mean more money for both of us," Dorsey said.

Using media ownership to maximize revenue opportunities isn't a new concept in baseball. The Chicago Cubs, Atlanta Braves, New York Yankees and Baltimore Orioles all have squeezed hefty profits from their ownership of cable companies. Local radio deals don't generate the numbers that cable networks do, but they can offer baseball owners other advantages, said Dennis Coates, an economics professor at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County.

"You have the ability to move profits from one business to another," said Coates. "The combination of the two might be more profitable, but they don't look as profitable. That helps you with revenue sharing and taxes. Accountants are smart. They'll figure out how to get the income generated in the entity that is taxed the least."

Coates said Major League teams that do not own their own cable operation are looking at ways of developing or buying them. He said ownership of a radio outlet could be a cheaper path to the same goal. While the strategy would depend on finding a willing seller, Coates has no doubt the new ownership group will explore it.

"If I was the current holder of the rights, I would believe there's a good chance I was going to lose them," he said.

RedsFan74
11-28-2005, 11:11 AM
Guess this is more than a rumor.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10235535/

You beat me to the punch!! I was just getting ready to copy a link to the Cincinnati Business Courier. :D

Chip R
11-28-2005, 03:42 PM
Local media observers speculate that Lawrence will join the ownership group with the goal of revamping the team's approach to media and marketing,

"He's a creative genius," said Rob Riggsbee, owner of Inside Media, a Newtown-based media-buying consultant. "He knows sports marketing better than anybody. I believe big changes will come."

Please let this be so.

DoogMinAmo
11-28-2005, 03:51 PM
Please let this be so.


I figured I wasnt the only one whose heart skipped a beat and grinned from ear to ear when reading this.

M2
11-28-2005, 04:02 PM
Fantastic news if someone like Lawrence comes aboard.

DoogMinAmo
11-28-2005, 04:06 PM
Fantastic news if someone like Lawrence comes aboard.


Made me think... if all these hypotheticals and hopes work out. Will Carl get the same praise for stepping aside for what's good for the franchise as Mike Brown did for letting Marvin Lewis take over?

M2
11-28-2005, 04:28 PM
Made me think... if all these hypotheticals and hopes work out. Will Carl get the same praise for stepping aside for what's good for the franchise as Mike Brown did for letting Marvin Lewis take over?

Absolutely. If Carl truly steps aside (and that's by no means a sure bet at this moment) and the Castellini group performs a quality restoration then Lindner should get his share of plaudits.

When I ran the 4x100 relay back in my younger days, I ran first leg (I loved blocks and I ran turns faster than straights). Not to brag overly much, but in my senior year I never failed to turn over a large lead to the guy who ran the second leg. Then almost without fail he and the third leg would blow the lead I gave them before getting the baton to our anchor, who, most times, would run down the opposition for a win. Yet we all got to stand on the victory podium together because sometimes giving a good handoff to the right person is all it takes.

Chip R
11-28-2005, 04:33 PM
Fantastic news if someone like Lawrence comes aboard.

Hopefully his idea of sports marketing is vastly different than the current regime's.

M2
11-28-2005, 04:35 PM
Hopefully his idea of sports marketing is vastly different than the current regime's.

Why, if he has any idea that can be identified as "sports marketing" I'd think it automatically counts as being different.

lollipopcurve
11-28-2005, 04:39 PM
sometimes giving a good handoff to the right person is all it takes

Agreed, though it remains to be seen how the Castellini group will do...

My take, and I defer somewhat to WOY for historical perspective, is that the Lindner/Allen era has mainly been about stabilizing the finances post-Marge, recommitting to scouting/development, and, most notably, getting GAB and the Hall of Fame built. Combined with the fact that the young core of talent is still intact -- i.e., the team has not been destroyed -- makes this group look pretty responsible, if not inspired.

Heath
11-28-2005, 05:39 PM
I'm scanning the dial around Cincy...and wondering what radio station could be WRED

550?
1160?
1360?

Is there an ESPN radio affiliate in Cincy (that's not 1450 in Hamilton)

I'm ok (and ok isn't what I call decisive) with leaving WLW if it helps the Reds.

redsfan30
11-28-2005, 05:43 PM
If the Reds make a move away from WLW, they damn well better still be able to reach the same places they do now, without having to have fans pay to hear their team on the radio.

Chip R
11-28-2005, 05:55 PM
If the Reds make a move away from WLW, they damn well better still be able to reach the same places they do now, without having to have fans pay to hear their team on the radio.

There are only so many 50K watt stations around.

TeamBoone
11-28-2005, 06:05 PM
The new ownership group has to be approved by MLB. Once approval is received, can the new ownership group add/subtract individuals as they please or does each move have to be approved by MLB?

Obviously, I'm asking because Lawrence is not currently a member of that group.

Chip R
11-28-2005, 06:49 PM
The new ownership group has to be approved by MLB. Once approval is received, can the new ownership group add/subtract individuals as they please or does each move have to be approved by MLB?

Obviously, I'm asking because Lawrence is not currently a member of that group.

I don't think you would need approval to subtract members from an ownership group. I would think if a new partner joins the group, as long as he/she doesn't have controlling interest they wouldn't need approval either.

Unassisted
11-28-2005, 07:18 PM
Where could the Reds broadcasts go? Here's some data to ponder.

You can rule out these stations owned by WLW's owner Clear Channel, since under the circumstances, I doubt they'd sell:
WCKY-AM 1360
WKRC-AM 550
WLW-AM 700
WSAI-AM 1530
WONE-AM 980

That leaves these AM signals in the Cincinnati/Dayton markets.


740 WNOP NEWPORT,KY RELIGIOUS (CATHOLIC) (2500 watts Daytime/30 watts night)
910 WPFB MIDDLETOWN ADULT STANDARDS (1000 watts day/100 watts night)
1050 WTSJ CINCINNATI RELIGIOUS (1000 watts day/279 watts night)
1110 WGNZ FAIRBORN RELIGIOUS (2500 watts-Daytime
1130 WCTM EATON EASY LISTENING (250 watts-Daytime)
1160 WBOB FLORENCE, KY SPORTS/TALK (5000 watts daytime/990 watts night)
1210 WDAO DAYTON SOFT R&B (1000 watts-Daytime)
1230 WDBZ CINCINNATI "The Buzz" TALK (1000 watts-Daytime)
1290 WHIO DAYTON NEWS/TALK (5000 watts day/1000 watts night)
1320 WCVG COVINGTON,KY GOSPEL (500 watts Day/430 watts night)
1340 WIZE SPRINGFIELD,OH ADULT STANDARDS (1000 watts)
1410 WING DAYTON SPORTS/ESPN (5000 watts)
1450 WMOH HAMILTON "The Ticket" NEWS/TALK (1000 watts)
1480 WCIN CINCINNATI R&B CLASSICS (5000 watts day/500 watts night)
1500 WBZI XENIA COUNTRY/TALK/AGRI NEWS (500 watts-Daytime)
1560 WCNW FAIRFIELD "Withoutchristnothingworks" RELIGIOUS (5000 watts - Daytime)

Ron Madden
11-29-2005, 05:21 AM
Again, I could be wrong but..

I really believe the love of Reds Baseball far out weighs any true fans loyalty to any radio station.

Most fans could care less what station we tune in to as long as we hear the pbp of the game is all that really matters.

I remember listening to games on 55WKRC with Jim Mcintire and Claude Sullivan, and there were far more radio stations reaching out to fans in what was once Reds Country then there are now.

Sure WLW is The Big One can be heard in 38 states on a clear night.But how many folks in those 38 states tune in to hear a Reds Game?

The Reds radio network used to spread every bit as far and wide as it does now. Difference is back then fans in remote areas could tune in to one of thier local stations instead of hopeing for clear weather and living in a car to listen to the game.

MartyFan
11-29-2005, 06:24 AM
I think the biggest obstacle to getting more radio stations to carry the baseball games of any team is the complexity it adds to programming a radio station.

Games air at different times of the day, so they're alienating listeners all over the schedule who aren't baseball fans by pre-empting their favorite program. (Can't miss Art Bell!) The start time is inconsistent, which makes it harder to sell local commercial time within the games, since audience levels and commercial ad rates vary at different times of the day. The local commercial insertions happen between specific innings, rather than specific times, requiring an operator to follow the game closely enough to know what inning it's in and insert the commercials. The end time is unpredictable, which rules out automation, so that same operator must also follow the game closely enough to switch the station over to the next program.

In this era of consolidation, the Clear Channels of the world look for ways to automate and reduce the number of person-hours required to keep a station on the air. Baseball works against that. Not just 12 or 13 Saturdays a year like college football, but a minimum of 162 days a year. It's a very unfriendly addition to a programming lineup.

FWIW, most of what I posted here also applies to broadcast TV.

With the technology available in most radio stations automation is not a problem with a broadcast game...I programmed three radio stations at one time for "a large broadcasting company"...one station was completly automated 24/7 with the exception of an afternoon drive show...am drive and all including news pdates, time, weather, stopsets, etc...it was all automated...the first year we did that the station drew higher ratings and increased revenue by nearly 20%...a big contributor to the increased revenue was that we did not have a "talent" in the studio missing a spot.

Automation just isn't an obsticle to broadcasting a baseball game...I am not sure if the Reds do this but most networks have the capability to send a "signal" that would activate local content for each affiliate.

If the Reds adopted a system like this I could see their profits on broadcasting going WAY UP.

I was in broadcasting for nearly 20 years...I loved being live on air but as a PD/GM I loved the reliability that automation gave my cluster of properties.

Also in your evaluation of properties you only look at AM properties...sure they hold the majority of alternative sports programming but there are all kinds of FM frequencies that would love the revenue boost that a product like the Reds would offer.

Clear Channel properties will not just cut and run from carrying the Reds games if the team decides to go it alone (no, not a political statement)..this is revenue and now more than ever CC needs all the money they can get....here is an example...CC owns Priemere Radio as well...yet they carry other syndicated programs on their frequencies all over the country...it is all about the bucks. I don't think you would hear them on 700 WLW or any Cincy grade signals owned by CC but...Salem owns a few properties there and may be in a position to dump one of them including their conservative talk station.

Add too the list of potential affiliates though stations in markets like Wilmington and Hillsboro that don't have local affiliates because of the shadow cast by WLW.

I think the Reds doing their thing could be a huge plus for revenue and fanbuilding relationships.

I agree with Ron Madden, people do not care what station their team is on...they tune in to hear it and then they go away (in most markets).

LoganBuck
11-29-2005, 08:35 AM
I agree with Ron Madden, people do not care what station their team is on...they tune in to hear it and then they go away (in most markets).


This is true, but of those stations listed above, unless you live within 10 miles of the transmitter after dark you are not getting a signal. 1410 is the strongest of all of them at least in my area and I can not get a signal after 5:15pm.

MLB Radio tethers you to a computer. XM will be the only option for those that are on the go after dark wanting to listen to a game.

Unassisted
11-29-2005, 11:18 AM
With the technology available in most radio stations automation is not a problem with a broadcast game...I programmed three radio stations at one time for "a large broadcasting company"...one station was completly automated 24/7 with the exception of an afternoon drive show...am drive and all including news pdates, time, weather, stopsets, etc...it was all automated...the first year we did that the station drew higher ratings and increased revenue by nearly 20%...a big contributor to the increased revenue was that we did not have a "talent" in the studio missing a spot.

Automation just isn't an obsticle to broadcasting a baseball game...I am not sure if the Reds do this but most networks have the capability to send a "signal" that would activate local content for each affiliate.

If the Reds adopted a system like this I could see their profits on broadcasting going WAY UP.

I was in broadcasting for nearly 20 years...I loved being live on air but as a PD/GM I loved the reliability that automation gave my cluster of properties.I stand corrected then. I haven't worked in radio since college and automation was fairly primitive back then, amounting to not much more than cart machines chained together.


Also in your evaluation of properties you only look at AM properties...sure they hold the majority of alternative sports programming but there are all kinds of FM frequencies that would love the revenue boost that a product like the Reds would offer.I agree that it's reasonable the Reds could end up on an FM station in their home market. My list was based on the fact that only 2 out of 20-some Ohio Reds Radio Network affiliates are on FM. A new era calls for new thinking, and I imagine the Reds would be better off on FM than any of the AM stations on that list.


Clear Channel properties will not just cut and run from carrying the Reds games if the team decides to go it alone (no, not a political statement)..this is revenue and now more than ever CC needs all the money they can get....here is an example...CC owns Priemere Radio as well...yet they carry other syndicated programs on their frequencies all over the country...it is all about the bucks. I don't think you would hear them on 700 WLW or any Cincy grade signals owned by CC but...Salem owns a few properties there and may be in a position to dump one of them including their conservative talk station.The rumor was that the Reds ownership would buy a station, not just find a new local outlet. I've never heard of CC unloading a station that they weren't required by FCC ownership limits to jettison. When they do unload, it always seems to be the least-desirable property (weak stick or rimshot) that gets sold. I didn't figure CC would be interested in the double-whammy of losing a programming centerpiece and a station!

I know that a good broadcast market analysis takes more research than I put in. I did a couple in grad school that each took hours of digging and days to craft. I was just trying to come up with some raw data to broaden the thinking for the benefit of those who live in the area.


Add too the list of potential affiliates though stations in markets like Wilmington and Hillsboro that don't have local affiliates because of the shadow cast by WLW.

I think the Reds doing their thing could be a huge plus for revenue and fanbuilding relationships.I agree that all of the reasons for doing this trump the inertia behind staying at WLW—unless WLW ponies up big bucks for the next contract. This small-market team needs to find money wherever it can. Whether the ownership can find a property to make the grand plan work remains to be seen.


I agree with Ron Madden, people do not care what station their team is on...they tune in to hear it and then they go away (in most markets).As someone who is mostly limited to catching Reds games over the Internet, I agree that the game overshadows the station in importance.

RBA
11-29-2005, 11:38 AM
The problem is going to be Clear Channel. They have all the 50,000 watt stations in Cincinnati. So I was thinking if the Reds would buy a 5,000 watt station in Cincinnati and than pick up a 50,000 watt in another city like Louisville or Nashville that might work. But the 50,000 watts in those cities are also owned by Clear Channel. And there are none in Columbus. So that's a no go.

If the Reds want to make this work, they need to buy a radio station and lobby the FCC to increase it's power. Maybe up to 25,000 watts. The lower the station is on the dial the better the stations carry. That's why sometimes you can get a station in the 600's at 5000 watts better than you can get a station at 50,000 watts in the 1500's.

RBA
11-29-2005, 11:54 AM
This is the station the Reds need to target.

WPFB-AM 910 kHz

And they need to lobby the FCC to increase it's wattage. I would throw something in there that Cincinnati/Dayton is a growing area and Clear Channel pretty much has a monopoly on the big watt stations. That might help their lobby efforts.

They may also try to move it's Freq so it doesn't interfere with other stations operating at 910 am. Or they could try to buy other stations operating on that Freq out or try to move them to a different freq on the dial.

BCubb2003
11-29-2005, 01:18 PM
I wonder if the trend is going to be one small cheap radio staton locally, then everyobne else has to rely on mlb.com, Extra Innings, satellite radio, etc...

MartyFan
11-29-2005, 01:49 PM
I stand corrected then. I haven't worked in radio since college and automation was fairly primitive back then, amounting to not much more than cart machines chained together..

I remember those days...the 80's were wonderful times :beerme: It really is incredible, if you get a chance, visit one of your local stations and ask for a tour...you will be amazed at what they can do...it is like Buck Rogers!


I agree that it's reasonable the Reds could end up on an FM station in their home market. My list was based on the fact that only 2 out of 20-some Ohio Reds Radio Network affiliates are on FM. A new era calls for new thinking, and I imagine the Reds would be better off on FM than any of the AM stations on that list.

You are right, the FM affiliates are less fequent but they are starting to pop up all over the place.


The rumor was that the Reds ownership would buy a station, not just find a new local outlet. I've never heard of CC unloading a station that they weren't required by FCC ownership limits to jettison. When they do unload, it always seems to be the least-desirable property (weak stick or rimshot) that gets sold. I didn't figure CC would be interested in the double-whammy of losing a programming centerpiece and a station!.

Yeah, I in no way think Clear Channel would be the "SELLER" of the signal to the ownership group...My point was that Clear Channel does not just simply write off content just because they do not produce it....they control a lot of nationally syndicated programs but they wont turn their back on making money...that's all.



I know that a good broadcast market analysis takes more research than I put in. I did a couple in grad school that each took hours of digging and days to craft. I was just trying to come up with some raw data to broaden the thinking for the benefit of those who live in the area.

No worries...I was just conversing, it is all just opinion, nothing that any of us have control over so all speculation is equal.

[/QUOTE]I agree that all of the reasons for doing this trump the inertia behind staying at WLW—unless WLW ponies up big bucks for the next contract. This small-market team needs to find money wherever it can. Whether the ownership can find a property to make the grand plan work remains to be seen..[/QUOTE]

I don't see a way WLW could possibly deliver anything close to the return a property owned and operated by the Reds could offer because of the revenue that would come into the station outside of the team broadcasts...and it can never be undervalued the amount of revenue generated by affiliates...plus the development of other programs to help promote the Reds in season and out...just too many dollars left on the table.


As someone who is mostly limited to catching Reds games over the Internet, I agree that the game overshadows the station in importance.

Exactly...WTVN in Columbus used to broadcast the games and then WMNI did...now In Columbus it is 1230AM so, it has hopped all over the place over the last 20 years.

MartyFan
11-29-2005, 01:53 PM
The problem is going to be Clear Channel. They have all the 50,000 watt stations in Cincinnati. So I was thinking if the Reds would buy a 5,000 watt station in Cincinnati and than pick up a 50,000 watt in another city like Louisville or Nashville that might work. But the 50,000 watts in those cities are also owned by Clear Channel. And there are none in Columbus. So that's a no go.

If the Reds want to make this work, they need to buy a radio station and lobby the FCC to increase it's power. Maybe up to 25,000 watts. The lower the station is on the dial the better the stations carry. That's why sometimes you can get a station in the 600's at 5000 watts better than you can get a station at 50,000 watts in the 1500's.

The Reds do not need a 50,000 Watt stick...5KW should cover the city...beyond that they want affiliates...the power is in smaller stations saturating more of the potential market than 700WLW...sure, people in Dayton and Columbus still listen to WLW...but not to the level that they listen to most of the local frequencies...even going to some of the lowest rated radio stations in these small towns (that probably are not rated at all) would deliver a larger audience the the overflow listenership of WLW.

LoganBuck
11-29-2005, 02:47 PM
The Reds do not need a 50,000 Watt stick...5KW should cover the city...beyond that they want affiliates...the power is in smaller stations saturating more of the potential market than 700WLW...sure, people in Dayton and Columbus still listen to WLW...but not to the level that they listen to most of the local frequencies...even going to some of the lowest rated radio stations in these small towns (that probably are not rated at all) would deliver a larger audience the the overflow listenership of WLW.

This is for all people who think this is a good idea. Tonight at 7:30 scan your AM dial and come up with a list of local stations you get really well. Well enough to tolerate listening to a game on. Try listening to the Ohio State Bowl game on their Radio network, if they get a BCS game. It will be a nighttime broadcast. Their affiliates are almost exactly what you could expect the Reds to have. I challenge those that support the idea to admit that they could tolerate listening to a whole broadcast with that poor of signal quality.

I am not opposed to change. I just don't think that going away from WLW helps. Perhaps the Reds Ownership wants to play more day games. That would help, as you can get much better AM reception during the day.

Chip R
11-29-2005, 03:00 PM
If the Reds want to make this work, they need to buy a radio station and lobby the FCC to increase it's power.

Easier said than done, no? These things take a lot of time to come about IIRC.

Unassisted
11-29-2005, 03:17 PM
Easier said than done, no? These things take a lot of time to come about IIRC.Not just time, but expensive lawyer and lobbyist time! ;)

The current FCC regulatory trend is to shoehorn more radio licensees into every market. Creating more 50,000 watt stations doesn't complement that effort. Think of it as trying to fit an ostrich egg into an already full carton of eggs.

I've never researched this, but I would wager that there haven't been any new 50,000 watt AM stations authorized since Ike was in the White House.

RBA
11-29-2005, 03:29 PM
I'm not saying 50,000 watts. But at least get one up to 5,000 watts and expand it to 25,000, or maybe settled for 10,000 watts.

RBA
11-29-2005, 03:32 PM
This is for all people who think this is a good idea. Tonight at 7:30 scan your AM dial and come up with a list of local stations you get really well. Well enough to tolerate listening to a game on. Try listening to the Ohio State Bowl game on their Radio network, if they get a BCS game. It will be a nighttime broadcast. Their affiliates are almost exactly what you could expect the Reds to have. I challenge those that support the idea to admit that they could tolerate listening to a whole broadcast with that poor of signal quality.

I am not opposed to change. I just don't think that going away from WLW helps. Perhaps the Reds Ownership wants to play more day games. That would help, as you can get much better AM reception during the day.

Depending on the time of year, AM signals don't always travel the same. On a clear winter night, AM signals would travel farther than on a summer hot humid night in the Midwest.

LoganBuck
11-29-2005, 03:41 PM
Depending on the time of year, AM signals don't always travel the same. On a clear winter night, AM signals would travel farther than on a summer hot humid night in the Midwest.

True, but as a rabid Ohio State fan, it seems like the reception gets worse as the year progresses. FM 105.5 WMVR out of Sidney carries their games, but that can be a pretty sketchy channel even for FM. I used to listen to 1460 The Fan in Columbus when I was at Ohio State. That signal would fade at night even within the city of Columbus, once you got outside of the 270 loop forget it.

One more question, how much more revenue can the Reds possibly gain from this move? Are we talking enough to cover a September callup, Jason Larue's arbitration raise, or AJ Burnett?

DoogMinAmo
11-29-2005, 04:19 PM
True, but as a rabid Ohio State fan, it seems like the reception gets worse as the year progresses. FM 105.5 WMVR out of Sidney carries their games, but that can be a pretty sketchy channel even for FM. I used to listen to 1460 The Fan in Columbus when I was at Ohio State. That signal would fade at night even within the city of Columbus, once you got outside of the 270 loop forget it.

One more question, how much more revenue can the Reds possibly gain from this move? Are we talking enough to cover a September callup, Jason Larue's arbitration raise, or AJ Burnett?

Or D.) All of the above.

Supposedly earnings from such a move can be in the millions. I would take it, and I sure would not fault the reeds for taking it either, especially if it might mean a stronger team.

MartyFan
11-29-2005, 04:22 PM
Logan: You bring up a good point in regards to the reception...but you also noted this was worse in the later part of the season...when the daylight hours are shorter...in summer I bet you could pick those stations up with little problem...reason being is that the FCC still dictates power decreases for most AM properties at sundown...this is so they do not hender broadcast of what has been widely known as "Clear Channel Signals" those larger frequencies that issue original EBS or EDS signals to other stations...still...This is not a major setback.

RBA: Your suggestion that the Reds buy and improve an already operating signal is a bit of a tall order...only because if you look to upgrade a signal there are signals on that same frequency and on nearby frequencies that will be impacted...additionally 25K would not do much more in land mass coverage than the 5K...it would improve signal strength in the Cincy area but it wouldn't really do anything more for it.

Logan: As far as the bucks go...we are talking about millions of dollars a year...probably somewhere in the neighborhood of Jason LaRue + enough to invest in signing a top prospect or two at draft time.

This is just for the network, not including any local revenue the station would generate and that would largely depend on what they did with the signal in non-Reds broadcasting times including spotload, programming and sales force.

Redsland
11-29-2005, 05:02 PM
On a clear winter night, AM signals would travel farther than on a summer hot humid night in the Midwest.
Those signals really shoot out of the transmitter in Colorado, too. And they carry pretty good at Wrigley, when the wind is blowing out. OTOH, in L.A. they have a tough time getting out of the Ravine.

;)