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savafan
11-30-2005, 12:19 PM
Call me crazy, but I think this is a great way to market women's sports. WNBA, are you listening?


http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/education/5431338/detail.html

OVERLAND PARK, Kan. -- The editor of a community college newspaper is being criticized because of a front-page photo and headline, Kansas City, Mo., television station KMBC reported.

The Nov. 16 issue of the Johnson County (Kan.) Community College newspaper featured two female soccer players showing their sports bras. The headline read, "Goals Gone Wild," and a photo caption said there were four good reasons to support the team.

Carl Heinrich, the school's athletic director, said he was shocked when he heard about the paper.

"I don't think it portrays the image of what our athletes are," Heinrich said.

"What we believe is appropriate or inappropriate is up to everybody's interpretation," said Joshua Seiden, the paper's editor in chief.

Seiden said the ladies in the picture saw the photo before it was printed and that neither of the women have complained to him about it.

http://images.ibsys.com/2005/1130/5432899_400X300.jpg

deltachi8
11-30-2005, 12:33 PM
and here i thought this was a thread about the new NHL

westofyou
11-30-2005, 12:33 PM
Camille Paglia for commissioner eh?

The pornstarring of current society applies another coat.

Johnny Footstool
11-30-2005, 12:47 PM
Any of you guys want JCCC women's soccer tickets? I can hook you up.

Bicycle kicks cost extra.

BTW - I think this is a great example of marketing to your target audience (college males).

RedFanAlways1966
11-30-2005, 01:14 PM
No problems here. But I doubt that my opinion is non-slanted.

On the serious side: I think it might have gone over better if they had left out the caption saying "4 good reasons...". However, It is funny and a great play on words IMO. And I guarantee you that some of the ads in the local paper are probably closer to porn than that picture/article. Not to mention TV shows. And as Johnny said, they are doing a great job of marketing to their audience.

:beerme:

Roy Tucker
11-30-2005, 02:38 PM
Yeah, if I had a teenage daughter that wanted to play soccer, I'd be sure to send her there.

Nothing like clean wholesome image and a place I'd like my daughter to be.

In case there is any doubt, I think it's in very poor taste and no fine way I'd send my kid there.

Having daughters gives you a whole different outlook on things.

Johnny Footstool
11-30-2005, 04:05 PM
Danica Patrick showed half of her rear in a recent photo shoot. No double-entendres, nothing to market except her own assets.

Compared to that, this ad is pretty harmless.

And it's not like this is a required photo shoot. The girls in the ad volunteered and had no problem with the idea. I don't think it speaks ill of the school itself.

GAC
11-30-2005, 08:30 PM
Yeah, if I had a teenage daughter that wanted to play soccer, I'd be sure to send her there.

Nothing like clean wholesome image and a place I'd like my daughter to be.

In case there is any doubt, I think it's in very poor taste and no fine way I'd send my kid there.

Having daughters gives you a whole different outlook on things.

Exactly! My daughter is very big on athletics and excels very well because of her hard work and dedication. I'd be furious if one of the girls in that picture was my daughter, with a T-shirt that says "Big Johnson" across her chest. Why not just lay on your back in the middle of the soccer field with your legs spread wide open? One less classless then the other? Same message IMO.

Stuff like this sets women sports back. It is not the image that woman sports needs to promote to get recognition.

Yachtzee
12-01-2005, 12:04 AM
Any of you guys want JCCC women's soccer tickets? I can hook you up.

Bicycle kicks cost extra.

BTW - I think this is a great example of marketing to your target audience (college males).

And to think, for five months I worked down the street from JCCC. I could have been watching soccer instead of going back to the corporate apartment!

Caveat Emperor
12-01-2005, 12:45 AM
I make no comment other than to note that it never ceases to amaze me how differently our society views women who are openly expressive about their sexuality as opposed to men who are the same way.

Johnny Footstool
12-01-2005, 01:04 AM
I make no comment other than to note that it never ceases to amaze me how differently our society views women who are openly expressive about their sexuality as opposed to men who are the same way.

Yep.

And we're also quick to cluck about men being sexist and viewing women as objects, but how many women watch baseball because they're fascinated with statistics, and how many do it because they just like looking at the players?

My wife is a huge fan of Alex Rodriguez. And she hates baseball.

Roy Tucker
12-01-2005, 09:23 AM
My comment was made in the context that this is an advertisement for a college amateur team.

I view college as an extension of youth and character building. If I'm sending my daughter to college to play soccer, it's for character and physical development in a healthy, positive, and constructive way. I don't view posing for some blatantly sexual ad as part of that and I wouldn't want my daughter to have any part of a program like that. At least while she is under my sphere of influence. Women's college sports have a hard enough time being taken seriously. We might as well skip the soccer part and have them do pole dances at the local strip club.

I'd have the same problem with it if it were a calendar of the college baseball guys posing shirtless holding big bats saying "look at my Big Johnson".

Once they turn pro or turn 21, then it's a whole new ballgame. Hey, you want to flaunt your body, you're an adult, go for it. But there is a time and a place for everything.

Unassisted
12-01-2005, 09:24 AM
Doesn't bother me so much, since it was an impromptu photo and not an organized marketing effort. Especially since the paper took the extraordinary step of getting the permission of the subjects of the photo to run the photo. This is tame stuff compared to some of the photo calendars that women's sports teams in other countries resort to for fundraising and attention.

Surprises me a lot though, that this ran as a half-page 4-color above-the-fold photo on the front page of the school paper. I'd think the paper's advisor might have taken some heat for that choice. Some of the people who are bothered by such things are politicians and alums who are apt to have an impact on the school's finances.

Caveat Emperor
12-01-2005, 10:15 AM
I view college as an extension of youth and character building. If I'm sending my daughter to college to play soccer, it's for character and physical development in a healthy, positive, and constructive way. I don't view posing for some blatantly sexual ad as part of that and I wouldn't want my daughter to have any part of a program like that. At least while she is under my sphere of influence. Women's college sports have a hard enough time being taken seriously. We might as well skip the soccer part and have them do pole dances at the local strip club.

All things considered, women running around in various states of undress or wearing as little clothing as was socially permissible while out in public is a far more accurate description of what I remember my college experience. But, that was Tulane for you. :laugh:

I think the far more telling thing is what you point out in the last part, though -- that women's sports generate so little heat with fans that teams are forced to resort to marketing themselves as sex symbols in order generate any kind of interest. I imagine that'd be very difficult to deal with as a woman who actually had talent to do something amazing but was forced to choose between obscurity and objectification with no real middle ground.

westofyou
12-01-2005, 10:22 AM
I think the far more telling thing is what you point out in the last part, though -- that women's sports generate so little heat with fans that teams are forced to resort to marketing themselves as sex symbols in order generate any kind of interest.That's the argument my feminist wife will give you, but some feminists see it the other way too, hence the Camille Paglia comment.

cumberlandreds
12-01-2005, 10:32 AM
The only way womens professional leagues will survive is if they sell the sexual aspects of it. Even then it's iffy whether that will make that much of a difference.
I do not think it's proper for the colleges to sell the sex part of it. They should leave that to the pros.

Johnny Footstool
12-01-2005, 11:05 AM
College sports have to generate some kind of revenue for the school or the program gets dropped.

More tickets equal more money equals better facilities and possibly more scholarships.

People who appreciate the game and the level of talent on the field are already buying tickets. They need to get more casual fans to come to games. Who cares if they are just coming to look at the players' bodies? That's natural behavior. The team might as well benefit from it.

OldRightHander
12-01-2005, 11:12 AM
How many will admit to watching the beach volleyball in the last olympics and not noticing the score at times?

Anyway, perhaps this photo is a bit inappropriate, but it's still interesting how there is a double standard regarding sexual expression of men and women. Remember how in HS if a guy was sleeping around he was a stud but a girl doing the same thing was viewed as a ****?

Chip R
12-01-2005, 11:35 AM
College sports have to generate some kind of revenue for the school or the program gets dropped.

More tickets equal more money equals better facilities and possibly more scholarships.

People who appreciate the game and the level of talent on the field are already buying tickets. They need to get more casual fans to come to games. Who cares if they are just coming to look at the players' bodies? That's natural behavior. The team might as well benefit from it.

That's all true. But even if this does result in a spike in attendance, how long is it going to last. I mean going down to see the pretty young ladies play soccer is one thing but actually watching them play for several games may not be a realistic expectation.

Johnny Footstool
12-01-2005, 01:09 PM
I mean going down to see the pretty young ladies play soccer is one thing but actually watching them play for several games may not be a realistic expectation.

True. Look at what happened to the women's professional soccer league.

Of course, women's sports and soccer are two things that just won't catch on in this country. Too many American bubbas don't like their womenfolk to be athletic. And they view soccer as a game of 5' 6" European guys running around hugging each other and crying when someone trips them.

cumberlandreds
12-01-2005, 02:46 PM
[QUOTE=OldRightHander]How many will admit to watching the beach volleyball in the last olympics and not noticing the score at times?


They actually kept score? I didn't realize that.;)

Puffy
12-01-2005, 03:51 PM
Ummmmm, I'd go to a game after seeing/reading this article.

M2
12-01-2005, 04:13 PM
And they view soccer as a game of 5' 6" European guys running around hugging each other and crying when someone trips them.

For the record, it's large German guys who seem to specialize in the art of acting like you been shot when someone gets within two feet of you.

Those little guys, they're scrappy.

deltachi8
12-01-2005, 04:15 PM
Those little guys, they're scrappy.

and we all need scrappy in our sports -

:obrien:

westofyou
12-01-2005, 04:34 PM
Those little guys, they're scrappy.maybe, but the latins are the best actors.. Henry never rolls around in pain... which reminds me.. I saw him make a move today on an Arsenal rematch that was beautiful... way prettier than a couple of CC college girls in sports bras.

Johnny Footstool
12-01-2005, 06:30 PM
For the record, it's large German guys who seem to specialize in the art of acting like you been shot when someone gets within two feet of you.

Those little guys, they're scrappy.

I know -- I used to be one of those little, scrappy players back in high school.

But ask your average Cletus Van Yokel to describe a soccer player, and he'll say something about a Hungarian midget with a mullet and a single, unpronouncible name, rubbing shorts with his teammates and flying twenty feet across the field after someone bumps into him.

At least that's how my friends describe soccer players.

Maybe I'm hanging with the wrong crowd.

GAC
12-01-2005, 08:18 PM
I make no comment other than to note that it never ceases to amaze me how differently our society views women who are openly expressive about their sexuality as opposed to men who are the same way.

I see far more women openly expressing their sexuality on TV, commercials, and various ads, then I do men. That's my point. Men don't have to portray that image in order to "sell"/prostitue themselves or the sport... but women do? I disagree.

I agree with what Roy further added, and also woy's wifes argument/position. This is what it takes to get society to recognize the authenticity /value of women's sports?...the Coor's Swedish Bikini Team?

I'm opposed to it regardless of the sex. But it is viewed differently because parents (epecially fathers) are more protective of their daughters. Greater repercussions for the woman IMO, than the man. I guess it all boils down to how one views sex, their individual values, and opinion of it.

It's just men... generally speaking, they only care what the package looks like on the outside. ;)

OldRightHander
12-02-2005, 09:42 AM
maybe, but the latins are the best actors.. Henry never rolls around in pain... which reminds me.. I saw him make a move today on an Arsenal rematch that was beautiful... way prettier than a couple of CC college girls in sports bras.

He is a heck of a player. The last match I saw of theirs was one they won 3-0. Every goal was a thing of beauty in that game. For the life of me I can't remember who scored the other two.

REDREAD
12-06-2005, 10:47 AM
I think the colleges just need to accept that women's sports just aren't as exciting for American spectators, and thus they will never be as big of a fan draw as men's sports. Marketing gimmics like this just show desparation, and they really aren't going to bring that much interest or sell more tickets. People might laugh at the ad, but seriously, is anyone actually going to buy tickets for this.. maybe one game at the most.

They tried all kinds of gimmicks when I was in college to get people to watch the women's basketball team (like playing the women's game right in front of the men's, so you were forced to watch both), but the bottom line is most people just aren't interested, so there's no point in trying to force feed it to them.

OldRightHander
12-06-2005, 10:54 AM
When I was at NKU, the men's basketball team stunk and the women had a decent team. There would be a good crowd at the women's game and then half of them would leave when the men's game started.

reds1869
12-08-2005, 04:18 PM
He is a heck of a player. The last match I saw of theirs was one they won 3-0. Every goal was a thing of beauty in that game. For the life of me I can't remember who scored the other two.

Henry makes me remember why I fell in love with soccer in the first place. Now if he could just be convinced to sign for Ipswich Town, I'd be set!