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View Full Version : Casey to the Red Sox?



Ben from Cincy
12-03-2005, 03:14 AM
http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=115300

Topcat
12-03-2005, 03:33 AM
Losing Caseys contract would be excellent, getting arroyo in return would actually make some here say a kind word about OB ;)

KronoRed
12-03-2005, 03:42 AM
If they want Casey we should take anything other then bad salary in return, just to get Casey's 8 mill out of here.

acredsfan
12-03-2005, 03:42 AM
Wow, that would be unbelieveable, but one problem still stands, Dunn said he isn't interested in playing 1st full time, so unless he can be convinced to play there, it wouldn't relieve the logjam in the outfield.

WMR
12-03-2005, 03:53 AM
Maybe it's time for Griff to take the plunge?

lollipopcurve
12-03-2005, 09:06 AM
Would be a good move for both the REds and the Sox. Boston would love Casey, and I think the Sox recognize the power of the kind of personal connection Casey makes with fans. In return, I think they'd give the Reds a decent player, since everyone knows a one-year $8M commitment is nothing for Boston. Arroyo would be nice. Youkilis -- I'd like to see the guy on the Reds, but where would he play? 1B? Meaning Dunn stays in left, Griffey in center... not ideal.

traderumor
12-03-2005, 10:58 AM
I would imagine that the Red Sox picture Casey lobbing doubles off the Green Monster with his inside out style. Of course, they will probably mostly be long singles...

Caveat Emperor
12-03-2005, 11:15 AM
Getting rid of Casey's contract would actually free up the kind coin the Reds would need to acquire and sign a starting pitcher to a long term deal. I'd take it as a salary-dump issue in a heartbeat.

If the Red could get Bronson Arroyo in return, wow...he took a step back last year to be certain, but he'd still immediately become the #2 starter on the Reds behind Aaron Harang and give the team at least 3 starters that don't totally make your stomach want to churn on a weekly basis.

Yeah, there's no way this is happening, it simply is too good for the Reds and beyond the scope of Dan O'Brien's ability to build a franchise.

Joseph
12-03-2005, 11:22 AM
I wouldn't say anything bad about O'Brien for hours if he does this one. :)

paulrichjr
12-03-2005, 11:24 AM
Getting rid of Casey's contract would actually free up the kind coin the Reds would need to acquire and sign a starting pitcher to a long term deal. I'd take it as a salary-dump issue in a heartbeat.

If the Red could get Bronson Arroyo in return, wow...he took a step back last year to be certain, but he'd still immediately become the #2 starter on the Reds behind Aaron Harang and give the team at least 3 starters that don't totally make your stomach want to churn on a weekly basis.

Yeah, there's no way this is happening, it simply is too good for the Reds and beyond the scope of Dan O'Brien's ability to build a franchise.


If DanO pulled it off would you think he might get a chance to finish out his contract?

redsfanmia
12-03-2005, 11:48 AM
I just hope and pray there is truth to this rumor.

westofyou
12-03-2005, 11:53 AM
Sources indicated that talks are ongoing with the Reds regarding 31-year-old Casey, who is owed $8.5 million next season after batting .312 with nine home runs, 58 RBI and a .371 on-base percentage in 2005. The affable, left-handed hitter owns a lifetime batting average of .305, and has struck out only 467 times in 4,017 at-bats.

Cincinnati is looking for players who could play right away and is believed to have interest in Bronson Arroyo and Queen City native Kevin Youkilis, among others. I like this

M2
12-03-2005, 11:53 AM
First, seeing Jeff Horrigan write about a member of the Reds reminds me of how much I miss him on the Reds beat (not a knock on you Marc, I wish you both got to cover the team). I get to read him regularly, but I can disassociate him from his former Reds connection in my mind when he's not actively mentioning Reds players.

Second, I'd be gung ho for that deal. What about Arroyo and Wade Miller? Supposedly Miller can be had for not much. Maybe the Reds could kick in Kent Mercker to help seal the deal.

flyer85
12-03-2005, 12:03 PM
I'd take the "Greek God of Walks"

blumj
12-03-2005, 12:04 PM
Hi, Redszone people, any interest in a visiting Red Sox fan?

M2
12-03-2005, 12:05 PM
Hi, Redszone people, any interest in a visiting Red Sox fan?

Always interested in hearing from fans of other teams.

Joseph
12-03-2005, 12:06 PM
Always interested in another teams fan's opinion. Welcome to RZ.

Redsland
12-03-2005, 12:11 PM
...he'd still immediately become the #2 starter on the Reds behind Aaron Harang and give the team at least 3 starters that don't totally make your stomach want to churn on a weekly basis.
Who's the third?

:)

traderumor
12-03-2005, 12:18 PM
Who's the third?

:)
Claussen showed promise.

MichReds
12-03-2005, 12:26 PM
The article says the Sox are also looking for a right handed hitting outfielder.

How about Casey and Pena for Arroyo and Papelbon and a pitching prospect?

blumj
12-03-2005, 12:27 PM
You guys are really fun to read, I've been lurking on and off here since we played you in interleague.

Do you really think Arroyo's a good fit, because he's a pretty extreme fly ball pitcher? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you had a real good homerun park, for hitters, and that's probably not a good place for Bronson. He has enough trouble with doubles at Fenway. I'd have thought you guys would have more interest in Clement, although he's got his own problems, too.

DoogMinAmo
12-03-2005, 12:29 PM
I would do Clement for Casey in a heartbeat.

westofyou
12-03-2005, 12:30 PM
I'd have thought you guys would have more interest in Clement, although he's got his own problems, tooCan you confrm that Matt has issus with his asthma to the point that he wouldn't want to be in a humidor like Cincinnati? If that's true that his layer of problems gets another coat when looking at some cities.

blumj
12-03-2005, 12:40 PM
Can you confrm that Matt has issus with his asthma to the point that he wouldn't want to be in a humidor like Cincinnati? If that's true that his layer of problems gets another coat when looking at some cities.

You know, I wondered about that, because he had one start where I actually thought he was having an asthma attack, and it was like I was the only one who noticed, but he didn't last another inning after that. He's kind of an enigma, he had that strange bad start, then he got hit in the head a few starts later, but he pitched some of his best games in August when it's pretty bad here, and a real good one in Texas, and some of his worst in late Sept./Oct., when it was already practically fall here. That could be an issue with him, I just don't know.

blumj
12-03-2005, 12:45 PM
The article says the Sox are also looking for a right handed hitting outfielder.

How about Casey and Pena for Arroyo and Papelbon and a pitching prospect?

I hate to tell you, but Papelbon was so clearly the best pitcher on the Red Sox by Sept., not the best reliever or young pitcher, but the best pitcher, period, that Larry Lucchino, who's already in hiding over the Theo mess, would need a SWAT team to protect him if he traded Paps. People were saying he reminded them of a young Roger Clemens, which is obviously absurd, but he's the first young power pitcher the Sox have developed since Roger so he's untouchable if there is such a thing.

Strikes Out Looking
12-03-2005, 02:44 PM
This makes too much sense for the Reds FO we know and love.

Youkilis and Arroyo for Casey--do it in a minute. Youkilis is about the only 1b that could replace the Mayor in that he's very local (his family goes back a few generations in the Cincy area) and he's younger, cheaper and IMO better than Casey. Arroyo is a viable SP, giving the Reds at least 3 going into ST (Harang, Claussen and Arroyo). And then with the cash saved, you can then still move Pena/Kearns for another starting pitcher (Zito?) and take on more salary.

Because there is light in this tunnel I'm confident DanO won't go this way!

marcshoe
12-03-2005, 02:48 PM
Youkilis and Arroyo?

I'd settle for or.

Otherwise, yeah, what hit me immediately was that this makes too much sense. If it happens, I will have to give O'Brien some credit. Up to now, he hasn't shown that he can pull off a credible trade.

Raisor
12-03-2005, 02:50 PM
This makes too much sense for the Reds FO we know and love.

Youkilis and Arroyo for Casey--do it in a minute.


I'd do it just to see the reaction of Reds fans if Arroyo grows out the dreads again.

Heath
12-03-2005, 02:51 PM
What's Peter Gammons saying?

David Cubbedge
12-03-2005, 03:36 PM
We have to remember, if this trade does not happen, it may not necessarily be DanO's fault. The article sounded like the BoSox were after Overbay as their first option. So it could go that way as well. But if given the opportunity, DanO better make it happen.

Aronchis
12-03-2005, 03:45 PM
If the Reds traded Casey that would be a sign that nobody is sacred and business as usual IS over, or in otherwords, welcome back to normal baseball transactions. But that is probably wishfull thinking.

VI_RedsFan
12-03-2005, 03:52 PM
This scenario SO works us. If this trade goes through, Arroyo goes to the rotation (obviously) and Youkilis becomes our 1B. Now, with KY as our new first baseman, we still have 4 outfielders. So now I am proposing another trade involving Wily Mo:

Reds trade OF Wily Mo Pena, P Phil Dumatrait, P Matt Belisle to the A's for SP Barry Zito.

If this trade happens, we then sign Zito to a 4-year deal and our rotation is immediately 10 times better than last year. The third and final trade of the offseason will involve Javy Valentin going to either the Giants, Pads, or the Mariners for a pitching prospect (Correia or Hennesey from SF possibly??). We can then sign Wickman/Jones to be our closer, re-sign Cruz, and sign other bench guys like Pokey Reese and Wes Helms. And here are the 2006 Cincinnati Reds.

Freel
Lopez
Griffey
Dunn
Kearns
Youkilis
Encarnacion
LaRue
P

Sardinha
Reese
Cruz
Helms
Denorfia

---------------------------

Zito
Harang
Claussen
Arroyo
Milton

Hudson
Wagner
Shackelford
Coffey
Weathers
Mercker
Closer- Bob Wickman/Todd Jones

It would be soo awesome if all of this actually happens. Get it done DanO!!

Matt700wlw
12-03-2005, 03:58 PM
Freel
Lopez
Griffey
Dunn
Kearns
Youkilis
Encarnacion
LaRue
P

Sardinha
Reese
Cruz
Helms
Denorfia

---------------------------

Zito
Harang
Claussen
Arroyo
Milton

Hudson
Wagner
Shackelford
Coffey
Weathers
Mercker
Closer- Bob Wickman/Todd Jones

It would be soo awesome if all of this actually happens. Get it done DanO!!

My god...that looks like a major league baseball team!!! :eek:

RedsIn07
12-03-2005, 04:04 PM
I don't know if Beane would bit on Pena, he's more OBP minded from what I understand.

vaticanplum
12-03-2005, 04:08 PM
I'd do it just to see the reaction of Reds fans if Arroyo grows out the dreads again.

Cornrows -- they're cornrows!! This is an important distinction, as cornrows require more conscious effort to implement.

I would take Arroyo before Clement. The argument of him being a fly ball pitcher is very valid, but I think he could be successful in adjusting his pitching slightly. I do not trust Matt Clement. At all. I would take Papelbon over both of them.

You have to consider the side benefits of signing arroyo as well, cornrows etc. I would pay good money for the chance to heckle him at an open mike night at some lame place on the Riverfront. And by "pay good money," I mean, "purchase a Miller High Life".

KronoRed
12-03-2005, 04:09 PM
I wouldn't say anything bad about O'Brien for hours if he does this one. :)
Heck I'd give him a week :D

Big Donkey
12-03-2005, 04:17 PM
I personally really like M2's suggestion of targeting perhaps Wade Miller in addition to Arroyo or Clement. It's viable, because BOS is expected to move a couple of starting pitchers... however, a lot of this hinges upon what they do with David Wells, because it's quite unlikely he will be back with the Sox. In fact, the latest round of SD-BOS rumors for Wells are more centered on Mark Loretta than the usual suspects (Dave Roberts and/or Akinori Otsuka).

Who does BOS have in the fold right now as far as starters? Clement, Miller, Wells, Arroyo, Curt Schilling, Jon Papelbon, Tim Wakefield and now Josh Beckett. Those latter four are locks to stay. I suppose that means there are enough there that even with a Wells trade, you could perhaps pry Miller alongside Clement or Arroyo to CIN, with the one not traded staying in the BOS rotation.

All this said, I think it's quite likely that Clement is more likely than Arroyo to come over if anything happened. Since Casey and Clement's salaries are basically a wash, I would think it comes to Wily Mo Pena-for-Kevin Youkilis and Wade Miller joining Casey and Clement in a deal if you want to get a couple pitchers plus Youkilis since BOS is in the market for a lefty 1st baseman and a righty outfielder. Is that fair?

I was thinking BOS wasn't too keen on trading Youkilis to begin with, as Bill Mueller and Kevin Millar are likely gone, but since they did receive Mike Lowell and would get Sean Casey, with some prospects at 1B a few years away, I guess it's believeable.

Caveat Emperor
12-03-2005, 04:21 PM
Zito
Harang
Claussen
Arroyo
Milton

Hudson
Wagner
Shackelford
Coffey
Weathers
Mercker
Closer- Bob Wickman/Todd Jones


I honestly don't know what's more unlikely...

1. Dan O'Brien making smart trades to exchange Sean Casey for solid starting pitching.

or

2. The Reds front office eating the remainder of Paul Wilson's (remember him, that other contractual albatross hanging around the Reds neck? I know he's tough to see behind the GIANT one marked "Milton," but he's still there) contract and giving him an outright release to build this pitching staff, which would probably be the best the Reds have fielded in a decade.

We're all getting excited over nothing. Danny is not going to be able to find a taker for Sean Casey as long Lyle Overbay remains on the trading block. If he were smart, he'd sweeten the pot immediately by offering up someone like a Kevin Howard (who's unprotected for the R5 anyway) or other prospect to try and get Boston to bite. Getting Bronson Arroyo in return is nice, but just getting out from under Casey's salary makes the deal 10 times better.

Big Donkey
12-03-2005, 04:31 PM
We're all getting excited over nothing. Danny is not going to be able to find a taker for Sean Casey as long Lyle Overbay remains on the trading block. If he were smart, he'd sweeten the pot immediately by offering up someone like a Kevin Howard (who's unprotected for the R5 anyway) or other prospect to try and get Boston to bite. Getting Bronson Arroyo in return is nice, but just getting out from under Casey's salary makes the deal 10 times better.

While I agree with your premise as far as the 1st basemen go, the one thing that may hold out hope is the fact that Doug Melvin seems really reluctant to deal Lyle Overbay even with Prince Fielder in tow. BOS has already tried a few times from what I hear, and Melvin hasn't bitten on dealing him there. I am sure most teams would prefer Overbay to Casey at this point in time, but BOS is one team the Reds may be able to make this work if they get on it. I do definitely agree with including a sweetener such as the unprotected (but currently very hyped) Howard.

Krusty
12-03-2005, 04:33 PM
From what I heard Milwaukee isn't trading Overbay unless it weighs heavily in Milwaukee's favor.

Casey for Arroyo and Youklis? We'll add Willy Mo Pena to the deal for either Jon Lester or Jon Papelbon.

deltachi8
12-03-2005, 04:35 PM
Im in line with Big Donkey's thoughts, Casey, Pena for Clement, Miller and the Greek God of Walks.

WVRed
12-03-2005, 04:49 PM
From what I heard Milwaukee isn't trading Overbay unless it weighs heavily in Milwaukee's favor.

Then Son of Cecil rots for another year in the minors?

buckeyenut
12-03-2005, 05:28 PM
Im in line with Big Donkey's thoughts, Casey, Pena for Clement, Miller and the Greek God of Walks.

This deal is very much in line with needs of both teams as well as very feasible from a value perspective. It is almost the perfect deal.

Course, that means it can never happen. :)

Redsland
12-03-2005, 05:32 PM
I'd do it just to see the reaction of Reds fans if Arroyo grows out the dreads again.
Chris Stynes' cornrows say :wave:

:)

Sabo Fan
12-03-2005, 05:34 PM
I'd be thrilled with Casey for Youkilis and Miller. I'd even include Merker or Weathers if the Sox wanted. Heck, I'd put in any current Reds pitcher not named Harang, Wagner, or Claussen. The Reds get a young 1B with some good potential and a relatively inexpensive pitcher who should be back to full strength. Plus they clear out one of the ill-advised contracts. Good all around.

If I was that infatuated with anyone else the Red Sox currently had outside of Papelbon and Lester (can't say that I am, but there may be someone lurking out there), I might see if the Red Sox had any interest in Freel to be their second baseman assuming that they don't get Loretta. In Freel they get a 2B and a leadoff guy in case Damon doesn't come back. It would be something to look into. In that scenario, I think I'd go out and bring in Mark Bellhorn to at least platoon with either Bergolla or Olmedo.

buckeyenut
12-03-2005, 05:35 PM
The more I think about this deal, the more I like it.

Harang, Claussen, Miller, Clement and one more is a viable decent ML rotation, I believe. Deal milton and 5M to SD for Akinori Otsuka or Dave Roberts, preferably Otsuka, and it allows you to move Jr to 1B and Freel to CF. Given SD is dragging their feet on Wells, they might take a shot at Milton.

Or give Bowden a shot at Milton. He's always good for a flyer.

Then, if you really wanted to get crazy after those deals, offer Burnett a 4 yr 50M deal with another 5-10M in incentives for top notch performance. Then you need a CF, 2B (maybe freel covers one of those) and you are ready to roll for the year with a team that can IMO contend. And you can still ship out Valentin if you want.

wheels
12-03-2005, 06:53 PM
I really wish we were talking about this stuff under the umbrella of a really good gm.

This type of talk probably makes O'brien's head spin.

He just can't hack a deal like this, let alone think of it himself.

cincinnati chili
12-03-2005, 07:30 PM
1. I've been meaning to chime in on the Bronson Arroyo discussion. While I should have learned by now not to disagree with M2 on pitching, I'm skeptical of the guy being anything more than a #4 starter. He has never been able to get lefty batters out with any consistency. I'd certainly take him, because he's an improvement over what we have. But I liken him a lot more to Paul Wilson pre-injury than to the #2 or #3 guy the Red Sox will tell you he is.

He'd actually be an effective middle reliever, which is how the Sox WANTED to use him last year, if everyone in the rotation had stayed healthy and effective.

2. I'm skeptical that the Red Sox would do this deal. SOSH seems to think the Reds would give up Dunn where YOUKILIS is the best player coming back in the deal. Redszone (and Horrigan) seem to think that the Sox would give up Youkilis, where CASEY was the best commodity coming back in the deal.

Maybe somewhere in the middle there's a fair trade. I don't really see a fit that would appeal to reasonable parties. (not that we can expect DanO to be reasonable)

Strikes Out Looking
12-03-2005, 07:53 PM
Dunn going to the Red Sox is only going to happen if they move Manny. The Casey for Arroyo/Youkilis deal isn't dependent on anything else happening.

Caveat Emperor
12-03-2005, 07:55 PM
2. I'm skeptical that the Red Sox would do this deal. SOSH seems to think the Reds would give up Dunn where YOUKILIS is the best player coming back in the deal. Redszone (and Horrigan) seem to think that the Sox would give up Youkilis, where CASEY was the best commodity coming back in the deal.

Maybe somewhere in the middle there's a fair trade. I don't really see a fit that would appeal to reasonable parties. (not that we can expect DanO to be reasonable)

Well, for as respected as SOSH is as a forum for baseball, I cannot imagine anyone being crazy enough (even DannO) to deal Adam Dunn away when the best thing coming back is ANOTHER 3rd baseman.

It's gotta be GOOD pitching for Dunn, or it's a deal that doesn't need to be made.

RFS62
12-03-2005, 08:01 PM
Well, for as respected as SOSH is as a forum for baseball, I cannot imagine anyone being crazy enough (even DannO) to deal Adam Dunn away when the best thing coming back is ANOTHER 3rd baseman.

It's gotta be GOOD pitching for Dunn, or it's a deal that doesn't need to be made.



I have to believe Dunn is off limits at any price until the new administration comes in.

4256 Hits
12-03-2005, 08:04 PM
I would imagine that the Red Sox picture Casey lobbing doubles off the Green Monster with his inside out style. Of course, they will probably mostly be long singles...

Why did they move the Green Monster in front of the 2nd baseman!:evil:

Seriously Casey didn't hit hardly any balls on the fly anywhere close to the warning track so the green monster wouldn't do him any good and actually might hurt him because the LF plays closer to the IF.

Sabo Fan
12-03-2005, 08:05 PM
Who do the Sox value more, Arroyo or Miller? Personally, I'd rather have Miller. He may be a question mark, but I think he has more upside. Arroyo strikes me as being exactly what chili said, no more than a #4 starter or a good bullpen guy. I think Miller, if he regains his form, can be a #2. Plus, looking down the road, if Miller can return to close to his previous level, he can net you more in a trade than Arroyo could, or at least I think so.

Is it bad that the first thing I think about when looking at players who could be traded to the Reds is what those same players would get the Reds if they were to be traded later on? It's a completely different issue, but the constant "rebuilding" that goes on in Cincinnati has forced us as fans to always be looking years ahead. It would be nice if they could reach the point where when they aquire guys we don't immediately start thinking what they could be flipped for.

M2
12-03-2005, 08:11 PM
I understand the concern over Arroyo. I think he could be a #3 guy. Actually what I think he could be is kind of Harangy - 200+ IP, ERA in the upper half of the 3.00s.

His Ks and GB rate dropped last year so that's a concern, but I like the movement on his pitches. He's also been a much better pitcher away from Fenway. Obviously we can't say for sure the GAB wouldn't be a problem too, but Fenway seems to be a particular thorn in his side.

The folks over a SOSH are bright folks, but if Youk's the best you're going to deal then forget about getting much in return. I like Youk just fine, but he's a Dave Magadan type. Nothing wrong with that, but you aren't getting one of the best power hitters in baseball for it.

Casey's a good player. No he's not a power hitter, but Fenway's usually worth a healthy boost in bat, especially for a LH hitter who can go the other way a bit. So you're probably looking a something in the .320 range with somewhere around 40 doubles and 15 HR for Casey in a Sox uniform. That doesn't grow on trees and it should be worth a starting pitcher to a team that's eight-deep in that regard.

In fact, I think Casey and Mercker (or Weathers) for Arroyo (or Clement) and Miller is a pretty fair deal. The Reds move from their 1B/OF excess. The Sox move from their SP excess. The Sox still have Beckett, Schilling, Wakefield, Papelbon and Clement (or Arroyo) in the rotation with a LH (something the club needs badly) added to the bullpen. The Reds get to take a flyer on Miller who isn't in Sox's plans for anything at the moment.

It strikes me as fairly painless in terms of what both teams would part with and it plugs gaping holes in both rosters.

cincinnati chili
12-03-2005, 08:32 PM
In fact, I think Casey and Mercker (or Weathers) for Arroyo (or Clement) and Miller is a pretty fair deal. The Reds move from their 1B/OF excess. The Sox move from their SP excess. The Sox still have Beckett, Schilling, Wakefield, Papelbon and Clement (or Arroyo) in the rotation with a LH (something the club needs badly) added to the bullpen. The Reds get to take a flyer on Miller who isn't in Sox's plans for anything at the moment.

It strikes me as fairly painless in terms of what both teams would part with and it plugs gaping holes in both rosters.

I like that trade, but I don't think the Red Sox view their situation as a "SP excess". I'm not sure Schilling is ever going to make it all the way back, and the Sox may know it. Beckett should not be counted on for more than 20 starts. If you get 30, that's great. But 25 is more likely. 20 or less is certainly possible. Papelbon is young. Wakefield is streaky.

M2
12-03-2005, 09:36 PM
I like that trade, but I don't think the Red Sox view their situation as a "SP excess". I'm not sure Schilling is ever going to make it all the way back, and the Sox may know it. Beckett should not be counted on for more than 20 starts. If you get 30, that's great. But 25 is more likely. 20 or less is certainly possible. Papelbon is young. Wakefield is streaky.

For a guy who's streaky Tim Wakefield's awfully consistent. Jimy Williams flat out misused him (go figure), but if you hand him the ball every fifth game he's 200 IP and an above average ERA.

Yeah there's durability concerns with Beckett and Schilling, but I'm assuming the Red Sox didn't just trade for the kid because they think he's only going to give them 20 starts. Whether or not Schilling makes it back to ace level I'm guessing the assumption is he'll be taking regular turns in the rotation.

If the Sox want to argue that #6 and #7 starters are more important to them than a starting 1B, maybe that's true, but if they won't trade out of their depth to fill a Reds need then it's kind of pointless to be talking about a trade. If the Reds were dealing Casey they'd be trading out of depth to fill a Red Sox need. This gets back to that whole reciprocation point. If I were a GM I wouldn't have a lot of patience for the contention that I should be the only one ponying up.

Doc. Scott
12-03-2005, 10:45 PM
A few things:

1. I don't think the Sox would give up both Arroyo and Youkilis for just Casey.

2. Papelbon isn't going anywhere- no way, no how, unless Adam Dunn's involved.

3. Dan O'Brien was responsible for Wade Miller's draft-and-following in Houston. I'd almost guarantee it would be Miller coming back in a Reds-Red Sox trade. Think maybe Pena and Casey for Miller and Youkilis and a Grade B/C pitching prospect. I'd wish for a lefty like Jon Lester (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/L/jon-lester.shtml), but it probably won't be. It'll be a guy we have to look up or someone that's considered to have limited upside like Abe Alvarez (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/A/abe-alvarez.shtml). He does, after all, pitch to plenty of contact.

4. I'd also place money on Milwaukee sending Lyle Overbay to Boston first. The Brewers front office isn't afraid to make trades and they get their **** done.

Krusty
12-03-2005, 10:50 PM
Just make the deal Arroyo for Casey and be done with it.

StillFunkyB
12-03-2005, 10:51 PM
Im in line with Big Donkey's thoughts, Casey, Pena for Clement, Miller and the Greek God of Walks.

Yes please. I like Sean, but this would help the ballclub.

Joseph
12-03-2005, 10:56 PM
Just make the deal Arroyo for Casey and be done with it.

I'm with you on that one. I prefer Bronson to Clement anyway.

marcshoe
12-03-2005, 11:03 PM
Yep. Arroyo wouldn't be the savior of the staff, but he would fill a hole (and are there ever holes to fill!), and this trade would free up money to help get a guy for the top of the rotation.

Caveat Emperor
12-03-2005, 11:16 PM
Yep. Arroyo wouldn't be the savior of the staff, but he would fill a hole (and are there ever holes to fill!), and this trade would free up money to help get a guy for the top of the rotation.

Or, conversely, a little "addition by subtraction" by sending Eric Milton and a giant, oversized check to some team with a suitably giant, oversized ballpark to pitch in or sending Paul Wilson home for the summer...

VI_RedsFan
12-04-2005, 10:25 AM
My god...that looks like a major league baseball team!!! :eek:

I can't tell if your trying to be sarcastic, or if you really agree that my ideas are good. Now, with my past experiences posting on this board, I'm guessing that you are being sarcastic.

But I apologize if your not joking. I shouldn't be accusing you just because of my past experiences. Maybe I'm just paranoid when it comes to posting here.

Kc61
12-04-2005, 11:30 AM
I think trading Casey would be wise and many of you may be underestimating his value to a contender. A team like Boston has plenty of power. They can live with a first baseman who is not a power hitter. Casey is a consistent 300hitter who plays the position well. His contract is not an impediment to a big market team.

From the Reds' perspective, if Casey were 25 years old I would be reluctant to trade him. (I don't think you build an offense only around home run hitters who strike out one third of the time.) But Casey is getting slower and older and will be a relic by the time the Reds are rebuilt.

I agree that putting WMP in a deal with Casey makes the package attractive. There is risk here. WMP took a step backward last year, but his 2004 was awesome, he has great potential, and he legitimately can complain about spotty use last year. On balance, however, if he enhances the pitching package the Reds can get, I would put him in the trade.

As for Kearns, I have to believe his value has been impaired by two poor seasons and injuries. I expect him to be retained because he won't bring much back right now. I remember the player he was a few years back and would like to see the Reds give him a chance to return to form. Hopefully, he won't be dumped for mediocre pitching.

Finally, I would trade Larue or Valentin. My preference is to trade Larue because he will bring back more. I feel that Javier can be a good starting catcher if given the opportunity, perhaps in a platoon with a right handed catcher. I don't think his offensive improvement is a fluke; he has a good left handed swing and is a decent defensive catcher. If it makes sense in a particular deal, however, I would go the other way and trade Valentin, keep Jason.

P.S. I keep reading on Redszone how Ryan Wagner should be an untouchable. What?

reds44
12-04-2005, 10:43 PM
I would do Casey for Bronson straight up, but I doubt DanO gets it done.

MWM
12-04-2005, 11:27 PM
Heck, I'd do Casey for Youkilis straight up and put Youk at 1B. I'd hit Freel first, FeLo second and Youk third. That would make for a lot of baserunners when Dunn came up 4th. Pitchers would be forced to pitch to him a lot more often.

It would certainly be interesting to hear what Marty would have to say about Youk. He seems to have the game that Marty hates.

deltachi8
12-04-2005, 11:35 PM
It would certainly be interesting to hear what Marty would have to say about Youk. He seems to have the game that Marty hates.

"How can you trade aguy who hits .300 for one who just doesn seem to swing the bat enough. Ive said it before, ill say it again, if yu swing the bat, your dangerous."

or some martyism like that

MWM
12-04-2005, 11:46 PM
"He's not paid to walk." - MB

Sabo Fan
12-05-2005, 12:46 AM
I've said it before, I'll say it again, if you swing the bat, you're dangerous."

or some martyism like that

I belive that particular saying was a Joe Nuxhall special. To Joe's credit though he only said it when he was commenting on a pitcher getting a hit, or at least that's the only time I remember hearing it.

jmcclain19
12-05-2005, 04:09 AM
From what I heard Milwaukee isn't trading Overbay unless it weighs heavily in Milwaukee's favor.

I hate to be the king of the obvious - but I don't think any GM in any sport makes a trade unless they think in their minds that it is somehow slanted in their favor.

jmcclain19
12-05-2005, 04:11 AM
And it's also worth noting, that the Herald story was written by the former Cincy Enquirer Reporter.

lollipopcurve
12-05-2005, 08:53 AM
I don't think any GM in any sport makes a trade unless they think in their minds that it is somehow slanted in their favor.

I don't think a GM makes a trade unless he thinks it somehow improves the team -- but plenty of trades are made wherein the GMs feel both teams "win."

ED44
12-05-2005, 08:53 AM
I would rather get Shoppach than Youk...that being said, I would rather have Arroyo than either of them. I would like to see this deal get done though. It would definitely free up some cash that could be used to pursue Dunn long term, or another starting pitcher.

REDREAD
12-05-2005, 10:35 AM
I can't see the Red Sox trading Youkillis for Casey.. It seems they could just play Youkillis at 1b and have a cheaper option.

I'm not sure, but I think Casey only has one more year left in his contract. So consider that. Even if the Red Sox love him, he's a one year stop gap.

I'd be thrilled to get either Miller or Arroya or Clement. But since the market is so tight for pitching, one would have to think that those guys are worth more than 1 year of Casey. I can see why the writer said Cincy was interested in Arroyo and Youkillis, but I can't see Boston making the deal.

I think a lot will depend on how much salary pressure DanO is under. If he's under budget stress, I see him caving and trading Casey for mediocre prospects. If DanO doesn't feel budget pressure, I see him remaining status quo with Casey, because Boston isn't going to give him the major league players that DanO will want.

TRF
12-05-2005, 11:22 AM
Casey and Merker for Arroyo and Miller. I could care less about getting Youklis. Then I try to trade Kearns/Pena to the Cards for Marquis, especially if the Redbirds sign Burnett.

in no particular order:

Harang
Claussen
Arroyo
Marquis
Miller
Milton

That's 4 starters under 30, I think Harang is under 30. Not a bad problem to have, and one more palatable if you can find a buyer for Milton. (The Padres?)

Puffy
12-05-2005, 11:40 AM
Second, I'd be gung ho for that deal. What about Arroyo and Wade Miller? Supposedly Miller can be had for not much. Maybe the Reds could kick in Kent Mercker to help seal the deal.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh, I like that a lot. Yup, a real lot.

lollipopcurve
12-05-2005, 11:50 AM
Then I try to trade Kearns/Pena to the Cards for Marquis

No way I trade a young OF to the Cards. Plus, I'm not a Marquis fan. I think the Reds can get a better, younger guy and not help St Louis in so doing.

TRF
12-05-2005, 12:28 PM
I don't care if i help St. Louis if I help myself more. If Reyes can be had for Kearns, yippee, but I ain't turning down Marquis.

flyer85
12-05-2005, 12:30 PM
Pass on Marquis.

blumj
12-05-2005, 12:32 PM
Are you guys aware that Miller just had labrum surgery and becomes a free agent after this season, during which he may not be able to pitch at all? He's probably at pretty high risk of never being able to pitch again, but I'm no medical expert. I don't believe he's really something worth trading for at this point, unless you can work a 2 year, heavily incentive-laden contract with him.

Falls City Beer
12-05-2005, 12:35 PM
No way I trade a young OF to the Cards. Plus, I'm not a Marquis fan. I think the Reds can get a better, younger guy and not help St Louis in so doing.

Me either, unless it's Reyes. Something tells me that Kearns is like Sheffield: put him on a winning team that won't accept his 'tude, and he'll mash. I just know that if the Reds trade Kearns to Saint Louis, he'll go all Chipper Jones circa 1995 on the Reds.

flyer85
12-05-2005, 12:41 PM
If the Reds dealt Casey to the Sox, I want the young guys.

Preferably a pair like Shoppach and DelCarmen.

OldXOhio
12-05-2005, 01:01 PM
I keep refreshing the site hoping the quesiton mark at the end of this thread title is removed.

corkedbat
12-05-2005, 01:35 PM
I honestly don't know what's more unlikely...

1. Dan O'Brien making smart trades to exchange Sean Casey for solid starting pitching.

or

2. The Reds front office eating the remainder of Paul Wilson's (remember him, that other contractual albatross hanging around the Reds neck? I know he's tough to see behind the GIANT one marked "Milton," but he's still there) contract and giving him an outright release to build this pitching staff, which would probably be the best the Reds have fielded in a decade.

We're all getting excited over nothing. Danny is not going to be able to find a taker for Sean Casey as long Lyle Overbay remains on the trading block. If he were smart, he'd sweeten the pot immediately by offering up someone like a Kevin Howard (who's unprotected for the R5 anyway) or other prospect to try and get Boston to bite. Getting Bronson Arroyo in return is nice, but just getting out from under Casey's salary makes the deal 10 times better.

I have serious doubts that Wilson will be ready to pitch or release by the start of ST.