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paintmered
12-04-2005, 12:07 PM
Should be a good one folks.

Expect to see lots of no-huddle offense to neutralize the Steeler defense today.

Johnny Footstool
12-04-2005, 12:45 PM
I hope T.J. goes off like he did last week. Hopefully, the Bengals hurry-up offense can create some mismatches for the receivers.

Yachtzee
12-04-2005, 12:51 PM
I really wish I could go to a bar to watch the game. Unfortunately, it's Finals time, so I will be trying to study while following the game on the internet.

LoganBuck
12-04-2005, 01:17 PM
Chad forces the Steelers to trade in the Terrible Towels, for Lovable Luffas.

CTA513
12-04-2005, 01:30 PM
Bens thumb is supposed to be very sore and it hurts to grib/throw the ball and even handing the ball off hurts. ESPN said hes supposed to play, but if it hurts to much then Maddox will come in to play.

wheels
12-04-2005, 01:39 PM
I don't know how effective the no huddle will be if the Bengals can't stop the run.

Let's say the Steelers win the toss, execute a twelve play drive culminating in a touchdown that last six or seven minutes.

Now let's say the Bengals go no huddle, and three and out.

Not a good scenario, but one that's very real.

They really need to clamp down on the run, not only for the sake of the defense, but it will absolutely kill their offensive strategy if they don't.

It's all about man e mano. Snot bubbles, blood, spit, sweat, and mud. If they run, the Bengals will need to run. When they throw, they'll need the deep ball to Chad. Other than that, grind them into the grass.

pedro
12-04-2005, 01:51 PM
The game is actually on TV here. I'm very happy.

paintmered
12-04-2005, 02:04 PM
Big Ben is wearing a splint under two gloves today.

Expect the bengals to get a few picks today. He did look good on that first pass though.

SunDeck
12-04-2005, 02:11 PM
Because I am an idiot and didn't think ahead, I'll be relying on you folks to keep me on the game while I work.

Pick me up out there, mates.

paintmered
12-04-2005, 02:11 PM
Bengals starting out with the no-huddle.

Reds4Life
12-04-2005, 02:26 PM
7-0 Steelers after a run by the bus.

paintmered
12-04-2005, 02:30 PM
TD T.J.!!

Carson goes over the top and T.J. comes down with the ball for the long TD pass.

Reds4Life
12-04-2005, 02:30 PM
Touchdown on a loooooooooooooooooooooong pass from Palmer to TJ! :eek:

Tied 7-7

wheels
12-04-2005, 02:31 PM
What concentration by Pootie Tang!

wheels
12-04-2005, 02:53 PM
Now tied at 14.

Not that anyone cares.

Reds Fanatic
12-04-2005, 02:54 PM
Palmers pass to Kelly ties it at 14-14.

SunDeck
12-04-2005, 02:56 PM
Now tied at 14.

Not that anyone cares.
:bang: :bang: :bang:

Gamecast Crashed...I'm hanging by a thread here, people.

Dom Heffner
12-04-2005, 02:58 PM
I hate living in Tampa- I get the Bucs, Dolphins, and Jags in that order. I'm watching my fantasy scores to see if the Bengals scored. :)

Reds Fanatic
12-04-2005, 03:00 PM
Simmons with a big interception. Bengals will start in good field position.

Reds Fanatic
12-04-2005, 03:08 PM
Another TD pass to TJ. 21-14 Bengals!!

Johnny Footstool
12-04-2005, 03:10 PM
Housh is on fire!

Reds Fanatic
12-04-2005, 03:15 PM
Bengals get another turnover on Ward's fumble.

SunDeck
12-04-2005, 03:29 PM
This is not what I expected. Steelers making yardage in the air, Bengals moving the ball well.

Chip R
12-04-2005, 03:41 PM
The Bengals have been moving it well on the ground. They did that in the 1st game and then they panicked when they got down. Use the run to move it between the 20s and then they can throw it. The defense needs to step up and continue putting pressure on Big Ben. They are still having problems stopping the run but nothing like the first time around. I don't think the Steelers have thrown deep all day and with Ben's bad thumb, I don't think they will. The Bengals can use that to their advantage.

SunDeck
12-04-2005, 03:43 PM
Nice to be up at the half. For them to get down there and not score has got to be tough to swallow going into the locker room.

Agreed on the assessment of game 1. I was not thrilled with the offensive play calling in that game.

Reds Fanatic
12-04-2005, 03:50 PM
Graham's FG makes it 24-17 Bengals.

Reds Fanatic
12-04-2005, 04:03 PM
Rudi's TD after Tab Perry's great kickoff return make it 31-24 Bengals!!

SunDeck
12-04-2005, 04:06 PM
Whooop!

Joseph
12-04-2005, 04:07 PM
Who is convering Ward [or who is supposed to be]?

Falls City Beer
12-04-2005, 04:10 PM
If the Bengals D was just average they'd be 10-1.

Jaycint
12-04-2005, 04:11 PM
If the Bengals D was just average they'd be 10-1.

Let's hope that D-Line in particular gets addressed big time this offseason.

SunDeck
12-04-2005, 04:33 PM
Bengals are the Colts of the last three years....

Reds Fanatic
12-04-2005, 04:47 PM
Rudi with a 14 yard TD run 38-24 Bengals!!!!

westofyou
12-04-2005, 04:53 PM
Bengals are the Colts of the last three years....Bengals are the mid 60's Boston Patriots.

Joseph
12-04-2005, 04:56 PM
TD Steelers. This defense is pathetic.

Reds4Life
12-04-2005, 05:03 PM
The Bengals are in choke mode, ugh.

Joseph
12-04-2005, 05:04 PM
Timely penalty at least, but I worry you are right R4L

MrCinatit
12-04-2005, 05:07 PM
the refs are doing a better job of holding the Steelers O back than the Bengals D is right now.

Jaycint
12-04-2005, 05:07 PM
If the defense chokes this one up I'm gonna be physically ill.

Joseph
12-04-2005, 05:12 PM
Whew

SteelSD
12-04-2005, 05:16 PM
Good job by the Bengals offense today, but that defense is a sieve of the highest order and showed it against a vanilla offense. If they can't figure out how to actually stop someone, it's going to be a short playoff appearance.

SunDeck
12-04-2005, 05:17 PM
No choke there...way to hang on D!

Playadlc
12-04-2005, 05:20 PM
WHO-DEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't stop saying, 9-3.

Jaycint
12-04-2005, 05:37 PM
Good job by the Bengals offense today, but that defense is a sieve of the highest order and showed it against a vanilla offense. If they can't figure out how to actually stop someone, it's going to be a short playoff appearance.

I totally agree Steel but I think for today I'm just gonna revel in this W. What a huge win.

LoganBuck
12-04-2005, 05:54 PM
Good job by the Bengals offense today, but that defense is a sieve of the highest order and showed it against a vanilla offense. If they can't figure out how to actually stop someone, it's going to be a short playoff appearance.

Which is, in fact, better than NO playoffs. The Bengals need a dominate DT to really make that defense go. A guy who can penetrate and plug up the middle, occasionally getting pressure on the QB. The double teams alone, on a player like that, would free up the edge rushers.

Looking at the teams that will make the playoffs this year in the AFC, the playoffs are going to be all offense.

Indianapolis
Denver
Cincinnati
New England
Kansas City/San Diego/Pittsburh/Jacksonville

I think the wild cards and the Patriots are going to be the teams to watch. If the Patriots get some players back on D, they could make a run. Injuries are the real question mark for New England and all of the potential wild cards. Can they get healthy enough

I think Denver has the best shot to beat the Colts, but can Jake Plummer win the big one?

The winter is going to be a little warmer this year.

Falls City Beer
12-04-2005, 06:58 PM
I think the Bengals could beat any team in the NFL, even Indy. It should be an interesting run.

Unassisted
12-04-2005, 07:06 PM
The game was on TV here, so I decided to watch the first regular season NFL game I've watched in several years, just to see what all of the fuss was about. It was a nice, timely win for the Bengals, but definitely a headscratcher how PIT was still in it there at the end having coughed up all of those turnovers.

I might even watch again if they make the playoffs. :lol:

ochre
12-04-2005, 07:27 PM
More than DTs the Bengals need like 4 new NFL caliber Safeties. The jokers they run out there are awful. They miss Madieu something fierce...

Reds Fanatic
12-04-2005, 07:34 PM
If the Bengals beat the Browns and the Steelers lose to the Bears next week we would clinch the division title because the Bengals would have the better record in the division.

Heath
12-04-2005, 07:39 PM
If the Bengals beat the Browns and the Steelers lose to the Bears next week we would clinch the division title because the Bengals would have the better record in the division.


Operative word there is "If" (right Boyds ;) ) woof!

But...if the Bengals can't beat a 4-8 team at home next week, they deserve to lose. I'll be there..cheering for the wrong team. :)

TeamSelig
12-04-2005, 09:03 PM
Loved the play by Simmons. Didn't know he had that in him.

Yachtzee
12-04-2005, 09:14 PM
I'll be there, in the South End Zone.

GAC
12-04-2005, 09:37 PM
Good job by the Bengals offense today, but that defense is a sieve of the highest order and showed it against a vanilla offense. If they can't figure out how to actually stop someone, it's going to be a short playoff appearance.

Yep. Lewis needs to be concerned when a guy with a bad thumb can have a career day passing (almost 400 yds) against your "D", were outgained 474-324, and the opposition can be -4 in the turnover category, but is still within a TD of tying it up at the two minute warning.

I hate the Steelers/Cowher, and I'm glad the Bengals won, but I was not impressed with this game at all. I was laughing at Pittsburgh's miscues in the 2nd half; but that is what lead to their demise in this game.

Playadlc
12-04-2005, 09:56 PM
Yep. Lewis needs to be concerned when a guy with a bad thumb can have a career day passing (almost 400 yds) against your "D", were outgained 474-324, and the opposition can be -4 in the turnover category, but is still within a TD of tying it up at the two minute warning.

I hate the Steelers/Cowher, and I'm glad the Bengals won, but I was not impressed with this game at all. I was laughing at Pittsburgh's miscues in the 2nd half; but that is what lead to their demise in this game.

What is surprising is that the Bengals held the Steelers to only 3.4 yards per run. No doubt the D was not very good today, but that total yards figure is kinda misleading. Pitt turned the ball over 4 times, and IIRC, after each turnover, the Bengals had the ball around midfield, minimizing the Bengals chance to get more yards. Cincinnati also had a 93 yard kickoff return (a tremendous play) that doesn't show up in the total yardage statistics. The Bengals also should get some credit for coming up with the 4 turnovers.

Pittsburgh is 18-2 with Roethlisberger at QB, and Cincinnati went into Heniz, and won. I don't see how anyone could not be impressed with the Bengals today.

Falls City Beer
12-04-2005, 10:03 PM
Good lord. The Bengals win against the Steelers on the road, and they do so without playing particularly well. That usually means a team's pretty good.

Newport Red
12-04-2005, 10:50 PM
ESPN.com: NFL

Sunday, December 4, 2005
Offense leads Bengals past Steelers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Len Pasquarelli
ESPN.com

PITTSBURGH -- Revolution typically doesn't occur overnight. Unrest usually foments for a while before the status quo finally comes unraveled. Overthrowing a longtime power in the NFL doesn't happen until you eventually quit overthrowing open receivers.

So when the Cincinnati Bengals all but completed their coup d'etat in the AFC North on Sunday with a 38-31 victory over the Pittsburgh Steelers, coach Marvin Lewis reminded everyone postgame that his team had to lay the foundation for its first winning season since 1990 by first cobbling together consecutive non-losing seasons. And right offensive tackle Willie Anderson, one of the longest-suffering Bengals, quickly seconded the motion.

"It seems like we've been climbing [mountains] ever since I got here," said Anderson, a 10-year veteran who, until Sunday, had never played on a team with a winning record. "I guess we're finally near the top. I mean, we're not the [division] champions yet, and there is still some work to be done, but we're feeling pretty good now. It's very gratifying."


Houshmandzadeh scored a pair of first-half TDs and finished with 88 yards.

As well it should be.

In defeating a Steelers team that had won the previous meeting at Paul Brown Stadium by 14 points on Oct. 23, the Bengals moved to 9-3 and extended their lead in the division to two games over slumping Pittsburgh, which lost for the third straight week. Almost as important, Cincinnati continued to reinforce the notion that it might be a force in postseason play, and perhaps the favorite in the AFC North for the foreseeable future.

Lewis has assembled a young team -- every point scored by the Bengals on Sunday was by a player 28 or younger; standout quarterback Carson Palmer is in just his third NFL season; and Cincinnati got a ton of key plays from rookies like middle linebacker Odell Thurman, wide receiver Chris Henry and kickoff return specialist Tab Perry -- one likely to only get better in ensuing seasons.

That the Bengals did so in a manner heretofore anathema in a division principally noted for its stodginess and blue-collar approach, trotting out a diverse and high-octane offense the likes of which hasn't been seen for a while in the AFC North (see: AFC Central), was especially impressive. Lewis still has holes to fill on defense, and Sunday marked the sixth time in its last eight games that Cincinnati allowed 23 points or more, but the Bengals offense continued to render all the opponents' scoring, well, pointless.

This is certainly not the way games are historically won in this division. Sunday marked just the third occasion since the league realigned into eight divisions of four teams, and the AFC Central was rechristened, that both teams scored 30 or more points in a division matchup. The difference in the game, clearly, was the turnover margin. The Steelers lost three interceptions and one of four fumbles, while the Bengals did not turn the ball over at all and, during some stretches, looked virtually unstoppable.

Cincinnati ranked second in the league in total offense and fifth in scoring entering the game, and lived up to these numbers. The defense, No. 21 and still a sieve at times -- it must rankle Lewis, whose acumen on that side of the ball is well documented -- played poorly for long stretches. But it mattered little, because the defense snatched the ball away four times and the offense was rarely held in check.

Veterans in both locker rooms acknowledged Cincinnati potentially possesses the most explosive offense the division has witnessed in recent memory. For years, this has been a division in which defenses tried to pitch shutouts. But with a triggerman like Palmer, who probably won't win NFL most valuable player honors this year but who should be on the short list of candidates, the Steelers, Browns and Ravens might have to refocus now on prevailing in shootouts instead.

"We're kind of revolutionizing the division," said wide receiver T.J. Houshmandzadeh, who had five catches for 88 yards and two touchdowns. "We knew we could score on them with this offense. It's a great offense, really, with a lot of weapons and a great line. We've got playmakers all over the place, a smart quarterback, and we like to attack. We can play you tough or we can finesse you. It's certainly the best offense we've had since I've been here."

Cornerback Deltha O'Neal, who notched his eighth interception of the season with one of the three pickoffs of Ben Roethlisberger, practices every day against Cincinnati's offense. Told that the Bengals defense played a huge role in the victory by often providing the offense with a short field -- the Bengals, as a result of takeaways or kick returns, started four of 13 possessions in Steeler territory -- O'Neal agreed. But he also acknowledged the potency of the Palmer-led attack.

"I don't want to take anything away from the other offenses [in the division]," O'Neal said. "But this offense, I mean, there are times it looks like it can score at will. I wouldn't know how to begin game-planning for it, because it has so many ways of moving the ball and scoring, you know? It's an offense that has a whole lot going for it. They can move it up and down the field. And it seemed like every time the Steelers scored to make it close, our offense answered right back."

Indeed, the Steelers' 31 points represented their third-highest output of the season. And Pittsburgh held big advantages in first downs (28-21), total yards (474-324) and time of possession (33:18 to 26:42). Despite playing with an injured right thumb that several media outlets have reported is broken, Roethlisberger threw for a career-best 386 yards and three touchdowns. But in addition to the turnovers, Pittsburgh was deficient on special teams as well, allowing Bengals rookie Tab Perry 197 yards on five kickoff runbacks.

The most costly was a 94-yard return that immediately followed receiver Hines Ward's first of two touchdown catches, which tied the score at 24 nearly six minutes into the third quarter.

In a superb individual effort, Perry burst up the middle, cut to the left and simply bulled his way down the sideline. He dragged Steelers cornerback Ike Taylor, by unofficial count, for 27 yards before finally being hauled down at Pittsburgh's 3-yard line. The Bengals scored two plays later, on tailback Rudi Johnson's 1-yard run over the right side, to take back the lead for good.

“ It seems like we've been climbing [mountains] ever since I got here. I guess we're finally near the top. I mean, we're not the [division] champions yet, and there is still some work to be done, but we're feeling pretty good now. It's very gratifying. ”
— Willie Anderson, Bengals OT

"I just kept moving my feet as best I could," Perry said. "I kept thinking, 'Well, sooner or later, someone else is going to come and jump on [me],' but it didn't happen. It was a good feeling to make a play like that. I mean, if you can give this offense any kind of a boost like that, well, it can do the rest. Those guys are really clicking."

At one juncture of the first half, in fact, the Bengals offense scored touchdowns on three straight possessions. Over a stretch that began late in the first quarter and went into the third, the Bengals scored on five of six series as Palmer mixed the power running of Johnson (21 carries, 98 yards, two touchdowns) with connections to wideouts Chad Johnson (five for 54 yards), Henry (five for 52) and Houshmandzadeh.

Not surprisingly, Johnson conducted a virtual filibuster after the game and, as he had in the days preceding the contest, donned a Terrible Towel as a bib. And the loquacious wide receiver wasn't the only talkative player in a Cincinnati locker room where players were clearly long on bravado.

Houshmandzadeh cited a quote from after the previous meeting of the year when Steelers linebacker Joey Porter had suggested the Bengals' "measuring stick game" had become a "whipping stick game." Bellowed the confident Houshmandzadeh: "So what kind of stick was this game, huh? Let's here it from them."

Given what Anderson termed "our well-known history" in reference to the Bengals' mostly miserable existence over the past decade and a half, Cincinnati players certainly earned the right to crow a bit following Sunday's outcome. But Lewis, who earned one-year contract extensions after each of the previous two .500 seasons, and could well be appointed coach for life after Sunday's win, might do well to temper things some in coming days. While there seems little doubt now that Cincinnati will claim the division -- it has only one remaining game against a team with a winning record -- there is still a ways to go.

The victory over the Steelers, while a giant step, was not quite a quantum leap. But this is a Cincinnati team that, with its ability to score big, might surprise people in the playoffs, especially if it gets a home game. It's a team, as well, that won't be nearly as stealthy, Lewis suggested.

"We have an opportunity to do something special," the onetime Steelers defensive coach said. "We still have a lot of football to be played. But it's time to stop hiding from it. It's time for us to go sit in the front row."
Len Pasquarelli is a senior NFL writer for ESPN.com. To check out Len's chat archive, click here .




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Betterread
12-05-2005, 12:55 AM
The Bengals have really shown up this year, they play with great verve and energy, however there are a lot of examples of vain and self-centered behavior like this:
"Not surprisingly, Johnson conducted a virtual filibuster after the game and, as he had in the days preceding the contest, donned a Terrible Towel as a bib. And the loquacious wide receiver wasn't the only talkative player in a Cincinnati locker room where players were clearly long on bravado."
and the completely dangerous and cheap low late hit vrs. Roethlisberger, and finally, after a Bengals first down, the immortal NFL great Perry spiked the ball right at the Steelers bench. These examples lead me to believe that their energy and self-confidence come from ego and vanity, which are temporary, rather than belief in their team, which is the path to championships. That would be a shame, because they have enough talent to beat anyone this year.

SteelSD
12-05-2005, 01:25 AM
Yep. Lewis needs to be concerned when a guy with a bad thumb can have a career day passing (almost 400 yds) against your "D", were outgained 474-324, and the opposition can be -4 in the turnover category, but is still within a TD of tying it up at the two minute warning.

I hate the Steelers/Cowher, and I'm glad the Bengals won, but I was not impressed with this game at all. I was laughing at Pittsburgh's miscues in the 2nd half; but that is what lead to their demise in this game.

Nor, IMHO, should you be impressed. Pitt has been playing awful football lately. Offensively, they have one WR, can't figure out who to play at RB, and a QB with a bum hand hand and the Steelers still grabbed 474 meaningful yards today (i.e. no blowout "garbage-time" yards). Their Offensive Tackles are awful and the Bengals' long kickoff return (which was nothing but the return guy running to the sideline and down the field) was NOT a surprise considering that Pitt can't cover kicks for anything. Defensively, they haven't met a drive they really want to stop or a third down distance they can't allow the opponent to get. The very idea that Pitt could get themselves into a position to drive for a tie was almost inconceivable. If the aforementioned Pitt O-Tackles hadn't single-handedly imploded that last drive, I have little doubt that we'd have seen overtime. But even THAT was predictable because you can always count on the Steelers to shoot themselves right in the foot at the most inopportune of times (they're not a good fundamental team).

The Bengals did some things really well today. But they did other things poorly enough that it should make anyone worry how they'd match up against a good team while said good team is healthy and playing good football. Today, Pittsburgh wasn't and didn't.

Yachtzee
12-05-2005, 01:29 AM
and the completely dangerous and cheap low late hit vrs. Roethlisberger,

If by that you are referring to the penalty assessed against Odell Thurman, I didn't see the game live, but I have seen video of the play. From the angle I saw it, it looked not only like Thurman was tripped, but it looks like a Steelers OL intentionally threw his leg out to trip Thurman. If that's the case, you might want to direct the anger towards the idiot lineman who could have not only injured Thurman, but injured his own QB as well.

Dom Heffner
12-05-2005, 01:34 AM
Terrific- a Browns and a Steelers fan discussing how good the Bengals are. How is the view today boys? 2 back with 4 to go? Don't like your chances, do you? Oh- and good luck against the Bears next week (the Bengals beat them, if you'll remember).


The Bengals did some things really well today. But they did other things poorly enough that it should make anyone worry how they'd match up against a good team while said good team is healthy and playing good football.

Well, they lined up pretty well against the Colts, didn't they? :)

Or weren't they healthy and playing good football?

Look- you can come up with whatever diatribe you want, the Bengals did well today, especially playing on the road. To somehow suggest that they were lucky because Pittsburgh shot themselves in the foot or was playing poorly coming in...I mean, c'mon, that pretty much describes 95% of every team's losses.
You're just mad that the catapult you use to jettison that lard butt Bettis didn't work this time.

Pittsburgh was playing poorly coming in for two reasons: one, they didn't have Roethlisberger when they lost to Baltimore. Secondly, they ran into a team named the Indianapolis Colts last week. Most teams have come up weak against them, haven't they? And both of those games were on the road.

I'm not buying this woe is me over the Steelers.

They are something like 28-2 with Big Ben playing, so to beat them was simply awesome.

Sounds like someone is making excuses after taking a big swig of sour grape juice.


there are a lot of examples of vain and self-centered behavior like this:
"Not surprisingly, Johnson conducted a virtual filibuster after the game and, as he had in the days preceding the contest, donned a Terrible Towel as a bib. And the loquacious wide receiver wasn't the only talkative player in a Cincinnati locker room where players were clearly long on bravado."


Oh boy, did you leave some things out of the article and from the past.

Gotta love the Steelers two weeks ago flapping their arms in jest of the Ravens while they were losing to them.

Here is the paragraph from the article that appeared after the quote you posted above:

"Houshmandzadeh cited a quote from after the previous meeting of the year when Steelers linebacker Joey Porter had suggested the Bengals' "measuring stick game" had become a "whipping stick game." Bellowed the confident Houshmandzadeh: "So what kind of stick was this game, huh? Let's here it from them."

How 'bout them Steelers? Nice Ickey shuffle from Hines Ward, huh? What was that, classy?

Consider the hit on Roethlisberger payback for Gary's takedown of Ken Anderson by the facemask. :)


But even THAT was predictable because you can always count on the Steelers to shoot themselves right in the foot at the most inopportune of times (they're not a good fundamental team).


Oh yeah, those awful Steelers. They just play bad fundamental football. They just lost their first road game in over a year, probably, and they went to the AFC championship game last year. Yeah, they're just terrible.

I tell you, if they constantly shoot themselves in the foot, they better get some target practice- quick.

paintmered
12-05-2005, 01:41 AM
If by that you are referring to the penalty assessed against Odell Thurman, I didn't see the game live, but I have seen video of the play. From the angle I saw it, it looked not only like Thurman was tripped, but it looks like a Steelers OL intentionally threw his leg out to trip Thurman. If that's the case, you might want to direct the anger towards the idiot lineman who could have not only injured Thurman, but injured his own QB as well.

I saw the replay as well. Thurman was tripped into Big Ben.

The steelers fans can gripe all they want. It doesn't change the scoreboard.

ochre
12-05-2005, 02:31 AM
The Bengals have really shown up this year, they play with great verve and energy, however there are a lot of examples of vain and self-centered behavior like this:
"Not surprisingly, Johnson conducted a virtual filibuster after the game and, as he had in the days preceding the contest, donned a Terrible Towel as a bib. And the loquacious wide receiver wasn't the only talkative player in a Cincinnati locker room where players were clearly long on bravado."
and the completely dangerous and cheap low late hit vrs. Roethlisberger, and finally, after a Bengals first down, the immortal NFL great Perry spiked the ball right at the Steelers bench. These examples lead me to believe that their energy and self-confidence come from ego and vanity, which are temporary, rather than belief in their team, which is the path to championships. That would be a shame, because they have enough talent to beat anyone this year.
It wasn't Perry that spiked the ball at the bench. It was Henry.

ochre
12-05-2005, 02:35 AM
Nor, IMHO, should you be impressed. Pitt has been playing awful football lately. Offensively, they have one WR, can't figure out who to play at RB, and a QB with a bum hand hand and the Steelers still grabbed 474 meaningful yards today (i.e. no blowout "garbage-time" yards). Their Offensive Tackles are awful and the Bengals' long kickoff return (which was nothing but the return guy running to the sideline and down the field) was NOT a surprise considering that Pitt can't cover kicks for anything. Defensively, they haven't met a drive they really want to stop or a third down distance they can't allow the opponent to get. The very idea that Pitt could get themselves into a position to drive for a tie was almost inconceivable. If the aforementioned Pitt O-Tackles hadn't single-handedly imploded that last drive, I have little doubt that we'd have seen overtime. But even THAT was predictable because you can always count on the Steelers to shoot themselves right in the foot at the most inopportune of times (they're not a good fundamental team).

The Bengals did some things really well today. But they did other things poorly enough that it should make anyone worry how they'd match up against a good team while said good team is healthy and playing good football. Today, Pittsburgh wasn't and didn't.
The Bengals O-Coordinator goes into weirdo mode when he's playing with a lead. Check last weeks game against Baltimore. I think Palmer got a bit nervous after he almost threw another one to his buddy Troy. Their Offense is best when they are behind. The Bengals D is just plain bad, but they are getting to a point now where the turnovers are no longer a fluke. They trade yards for turnovers. I don't like it, but that's what they do.

Ohalate is my own personal Reggie Taylor/Rich Aurilia/Eric Milton/Bob Boone rolled up into one defensive back. I loathe him.

Redsfaithful
12-05-2005, 03:43 AM
(which was nothing but the return guy running to the sideline and down the field)

Tab Perry dragged a guy 25 yards, and you want to say he didn't do anything to earn the return? Dude, I respect the hell out of you, but whatever.

Great game, huge moment. I've watched probably 90-95 percent of all the Bengals games in the last 15 years, I was only 9 in 1990, and thus I can easily say that today is the best I've ever felt about being a Bengals fan.

This is a young team, and today was the changing of the guard. Thank God for Marvin Lewis coming to Cincinnati.

Playadlc
12-05-2005, 04:53 AM
Tab Perry dragged a guy 25 yards, and you want to say he didn't do anything to earn the return? Dude, I respect the hell out of you, but whatever.

Great game, huge moment. I've watched probably 90-95 percent of all the Bengals games in the last 15 years, I was only 9 in 1990, and thus I can easily say that today is the best I've ever felt about being a Bengals fan.

This is a young team, and today was the changing of the guard. Thank God for Marvin Lewis coming to Cincinnati.

I agree. I love reading your posts Steel, but that remark makes me think there is some serious Bengals hate going on.

Regardless, I don't really care. Cincinnati is going to be in the playoffs for the first time in 15 years. I can't express how happy I am right now. We Bengal fans have taken a lot of abuse over the last decade and a half, now it's our turn to crow.

WHO-DEY!

WMR
12-05-2005, 06:10 AM
It's a great time to be a Bengal fan.

RedsBaron
12-05-2005, 07:47 AM
If by that you are referring to the penalty assessed against Odell Thurman, I didn't see the game live, but I have seen video of the play. From the angle I saw it, it looked not only like Thurman was tripped, but it looks like a Steelers OL intentionally threw his leg out to trip Thurman. If that's the case, you might want to direct the anger towards the idiot lineman who could have not only injured Thurman, but injured his own QB as well.
That's how I saw it as well.
The Bengals obviously are good enough to defeat anybody, but also have enough holes on defense to make it unlikely that they can have a long playoff run. They are probably a year or two away from a serious Super Bowl run; give Marvin Lewis time to construct a defense and the Bengals may truly be a monster.
By the way, Marvin couldn't provide the Reds with some advice, could he?

SunDeck
12-05-2005, 08:27 AM
The Steelers are NOT the same team they were this time last year, by any stretch, but that's beside the point. You play the team on the field, not the one from last year or the week before. Winning on the road in the NFL is tough and the Bengals have done a good job of it this year. They are not an elite team yet and I really didn't expect them to win the division this year (did anyone?), but they can play with anyone and have thus far given the NFL best Colts their toughest game. I am pretty well convinced that this team is for real.
What will it take to get into the elite realm? The 'gals are a big Tackle and a couple of quality safeties away from being a Superbowl team.

WMR
12-05-2005, 08:34 AM
Sundeck see my draft thread

RedFanAlways1966
12-05-2005, 08:58 AM
WHODEY, WHODEY, WHODEY!!

:beerme: :KoolAid: :thisyear:

GAC
12-05-2005, 09:13 AM
The Bengals also should get some credit for coming up with the 4 turnovers.

The INTs - yes. But not the fumbles. The Bengals had nothing to do with Parker and Duece having butterfingers. :lol:

I'm not trying to rake anything at all from the Bengals or their victory. But just emphasizing that the Steelers, simply from watching the game, fumbled and bumbled this game, and yet still were in it until the end.


Pittsburgh is 18-2 with Roethlisberger at QB, and Cincinnati went into Heniz, and won. I don't see how anyone could not be impressed with the Bengals today.

I'm glad as all get out they won. A win is a win. But I have this feeling in the back of my mind, regardless of how good they are offensively, that their defense is gonna sink them in the post-season.... and I hope not. They remind me of the Colts 2-3 years ago, who had an awesome offense, but couldn't stop anyone.

Redsfaithful
12-05-2005, 09:59 AM
They remind me of the Colts 2-3 years ago, who had an awesome offense, but couldn't stop anyone.

They remind me of the '99 Rams.

wheels
12-05-2005, 10:09 AM
I don't think any Bengal fan has any misconception about the defense.

What we're happy about is the fact that they're 9-3.

Explain it away all you want, and then try to it explain it away when they win the division. I couldn't care less.

Are they gonna go deep into the playoffs?

Maybe.

What if they win a shootout or two in the playoffs? Will it be worth less than any other playoff win?

I really don't care if they get bounced in the first round. They're a work in progress, and they're the first team that I've rooted for that has had a winning record in six years. There's no way I can be dissappointed now, and there's no way that any of the naysayers can understand that because because none of you have had to endure fifteen years of losing football like most Bengals fans have.

I'm sorry that your world has been turned upside down now that the Bengals are winning, but you'd better get used to it. They aren't going anywhere for awhile.

wheels
12-05-2005, 10:13 AM
Tab Perry dragged a guy 25 yards, and you want to say he didn't do anything to earn the return? Dude, I respect the hell out of you, but whatever.

Great game, huge moment. I've watched probably 90-95 percent of all the Bengals games in the last 15 years, I was only 9 in 1990, and thus I can easily say that today is the best I've ever felt about being a Bengals fan.

This is a young team, and today was the changing of the guard. Thank God for Marvin Lewis coming to Cincinnati.

You know what really sucks about that last playoff game?

I didn't even get to watch it. I had to work.

If I had known that it would be my last chance to see playoff football for fifteen years, I would have called off.

Thank God for Marvin Lewis is right.

ochre
12-05-2005, 10:38 AM
You know what really sucks about that last playoff game?

I didn't even get to watch it. I had to work.

If I had known that it would be my last chance to see playoff football for fifteen years, I would have called off.

Thank God for Marvin Lewis is right.
I was in England for the first day. I was there for a British Military language school (Arabic). We literally stepped off the plane that afternoon. I ran into a dude I knew at DLI when I was learning German. We decided we were going to find a place to watch that game.

We were in Beaconsfield. A pretty rural area west of London. The British enlisted club had no ability to show the playoff games (they'd show the Giants-Bills superbowl a few weeks later though). So we asked around. We found out that there was an American Air Force installation in High Wycombe a short distance away. We got directions to the train station and headed over there. We ended up finding the place. Found the club on base and headed in. No luck. They weren't showing the playoff games. So we asked around some more. Turns out there's an American Naval facility in West Ruislip a few towns east of where we were. Back to the train station we went.

(interesting sidebar: British do not refer to 'restrooms' as 'restrooms'; my friend asked one of the few people we saw, it was Sunday evening and traffic was light, where the restroom was. They were befuddled and asked if he was tired).

So we make it to West Ruislip. We look around, but again can not find a place that will have the game on. We finally find somebody that knows for sure where the game will be shown. The US Naval Embassy, downtown London. Back to the train station.

We had asked about how to find the Naval Embassy from the person we talked to in West Ruislip. I don't remember having a particularly difficult time finding it. We showed our ID cards and they let us in without any hassle. The game was on in what I remember being a basement cafeteria. The game was blah. I don't remember the specifics of it much, but just a general frustration with the performance that day.

After the game we went back out and wandered around London for a bit. We headed down to the tube station and were quite surprised to find that they were closed for the night (seems is was around 1AM London time). Well. That's going to be a problem. Maybe the trains are still running? Nope. No luck there either. Classes start at 8 AM. We are, apparently stranded in London. No "chain of command" as there are just 20 American students (no officers) and an as yet unknown British military "way" of doing things. We ended up, after carefully considering our options, hailing a taxi and paying the $100 bucks or so in fares back to Beaconsfield. We were a bit concerned that we would get in serious trouble if we didn't make it back.

Maybe I'm the Bengals goat. Maybe they'll never make the playoffs until I make it back to that Naval Embassy. I'm taking donations. :)

Johnny Footstool
12-05-2005, 10:52 AM
The INTs - yes. But not the fumbles. The Bengals had nothing to do with Parker and Duece having butterfingers.

Deuce's fumble was pure luck, but weren't both of Parker's fumbles caused by hits? I remember the first fumble being forced, and Pitt was lucky enough to fall on it. I can't remember the second one, though.

BTW - I don't know if you folks knew this, but Ben Roethlisberger was playing with a hurt thumb. Yep, it's true! The announcers even mentioned it once or twice.

ochre
12-05-2005, 10:55 AM
Deuce's fumble was pure luck, but weren't both of Parker's fumbles caused by hits? I remember the first fumble being forced, and Pitt was lucky enough to fall on it. I can't remember the second one, though.

I did love the announcers talking endlessly about how amazing it was that Big Ben was out there playing with a hurt thumb. Of course, no mention of how that hurt thumb helped him throw all those interceptions.
And none of those fumbles resulted in a TO. The fumble TO was Ward's. Parker's second fumble was a helmet on ball collision.

OldRightHander
12-05-2005, 11:03 AM
BTW - I don't know if you folks knew this, but Ben Roethlisberger was playing with a hurt thumb. Yep, it's true! The announcers even mentioned it once or twice.

Are you sure? How could I have missed that?:confused:

traderumor
12-05-2005, 11:31 AM
Deuce's fumble was pure luck, but weren't both of Parker's fumbles caused by hits? I remember the first fumble being forced, and Pitt was lucky enough to fall on it. I can't remember the second one, though.

BTW - I don't know if you folks knew this, but Ben Roethlisberger was playing with a hurt thumb. Yep, it's true! The announcers even mentioned it once or twice.
We were having my baby girl's first b-day party during the game yesterday, and there is a quote of me running the video camera saying "quit slobbering all over Rothelsberger. You'd think a player had never played hurt before." All he did was prove that one can complete a lot of passes shotputting the ball to wide open receivers, but that the technique didn't work real well when a real pass was necessary, like when linebackers were in their zones.

I also think Cowher made a tactical mistake. I think of the analogy of basketball when you are playing a fast break oriented team, you don't want to try to run with them. You might make for an interesting game, but if that is not the normal type of game you play, it is highly unlikely that you will come out on top. To be at home and let the other team dictate the tempo seemed to be a serious game planning error by Cowher.

But then, in fairness, the turnovers and Bengals' scoring efficiency may have dictated the tempo more than the Steelers trying to keep pace.

traderumor
12-05-2005, 11:41 AM
As for the alleged cheap shot on Odell, the "Angry Ref" thinks that he is the enforcer. Odell made a dive in an attempt to sack the QB, who had just released the football. It was a normal hit in the course of a football game. This is tackle football, not powder puff league. The roughing call on the Steelers was a little lame also, although I understand the hands to the face is basically automatic.

Boss-Hog
12-05-2005, 11:44 AM
You know what really sucks about that last playoff game?

I didn't even get to watch it. I had to work.

If I had known that it would be my last chance to see playoff football for fifteen years, I would have called off.

Thank God for Marvin Lewis is right.
I started going to games in 1988 (at the ripe age of 7) and have been to a LOT of games over the years (even during the "lost decade"), including holding season tickets this year. And you know what sucks? I'm going to miss the first two rounds of their first playoff season in 15 years, including (likely) a home playoff game, as I'll be on vacation starting the morning of January 8th until the evening of January 15th.

The way I see it, the only thing that can change that is if they they play on Saturday January, 7th of wild card weekend, preferably at home. :) Does anyone know how it's determined who plays on that Saturday and who plays on Sunday (other than 2 AFC games and two NFC games each day)? Is it based on seeding, and if so, how does the schedule look?

OldRightHander
12-05-2005, 11:54 AM
I started going to games in 1988 (at the ripe age of 7)

Who else feels older just reading that little tidbit? I was in college that year.

westofyou
12-05-2005, 11:58 AM
I started going to games in 1988 (at the ripe age of 7)The last game I attended was the Ice Game in 1981.... I guess ya missed that one eh?

ochre
12-05-2005, 12:00 PM
The last game I attended was the Ice Game in 1981.... I guess ya missed that one eh?
who knows, maybe that's where he got his start... :)

CrackerJack
12-05-2005, 12:01 PM
Who else feels older just reading that little tidbit? I was in college that year.

I was a freshman in college playing ball when the Bengals went to their last SuperBowl, sophmore in school when they last went to the playoffs and lost to the Raiders on the road in 1990.

I am now 36 years old.

The last Bengals' winning record came when the internet was a foreign term, and was purely text based, and consisted of BBS's and used apps like "Gopher" to retrieve information.

Cassette Tapes were still the norm.

Boss-Hog
12-05-2005, 12:04 PM
The last game I attended was the Ice Game in 1981.... I guess ya missed that one eh?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I missed that one, but was at #4192 (at age 4)... ;)

CrackerJack
12-05-2005, 12:08 PM
The Bengals have really shown up this year, they play with great verve and energy, however there are a lot of examples of vain and self-centered behavior like this:
"Not surprisingly, Johnson conducted a virtual filibuster after the game and, as he had in the days preceding the contest, donned a Terrible Towel as a bib. And the loquacious wide receiver wasn't the only talkative player in a Cincinnati locker room where players were clearly long on bravado."
and the completely dangerous and cheap low late hit vrs. Roethlisberger, and finally, after a Bengals first down, the immortal NFL great Perry spiked the ball right at the Steelers bench. These examples lead me to believe that their energy and self-confidence come from ego and vanity, which are temporary, rather than belief in their team, which is the path to championships. That would be a shame, because they have enough talent to beat anyone this year.

I have never gotten the impression Chad Johnson and Carson Palmer don't aspire to be great players for a long time to come. They have the work ethic, desire, competitive spirit and talent, among other Bengals' players, to be great for a long time.

And why is the in your face Ickey Shuffle celebration by Ward - totally classless btw - not mentioned?

That did nothing but piss off a lot of Bengals' and their fans and no doubt fired them up and led them to do such things, or added to it.

The Bengals' went up there and put it to Pittsburgh and didn't back down or show any signs of being meek or giving in - proud of what they did and glad Pitt got a taste of their own medicine for once.

traderumor
12-05-2005, 12:19 PM
As for Ward and his antics, he has no original material so he mocks others. He's lame, good player, but needs some fresh ideas for the end zone. Spent too much time in Pittsburgh, I guess, where they still haven't figured out how to get a decal on both sides of the helmet.

OldRightHander
12-05-2005, 12:22 PM
I was a freshman in college playing ball when the Bengals went to their last SuperBowl, sophmore in school when they last went to the playoffs and lost to the Raiders on the road in 1990.

I am now 36 years old.

The last Bengals' winning record came when the internet was a foreign term, and was purely text based, and consisted of BBS's and used apps like "Gopher" to retrieve information.

Cassette Tapes were still the norm.

So you and I are the same age. I remember the BBSs. I had a 300 baud modem back in the late 80s and I can remember thinking that I had something fairly high tech. I remember one board boasting that they had a 1 meg hard drive. Now that's some massive storage space.

You could go into a record store and still find records. Most of the aisles were full of cassettes, with the LPs off to the side and a really small section with those new CDs.

I had a VCR that had a remote with a really long cord that plugged into the front of the machine.

I think I once paid about $10.00 for a blue seat at a Reds game.

And when San Francisco won the NFC championship so they could play the Bengals in the Super Bowl, I was so glad because I wanted payback from '81. I HATED San Fran back then, and the result of the '88 Super Bowl only cemented it. There is a part of me that still wishes they were playing well so that we could play them in another Super Bowl soon and have a chance for a payback.

OldRightHander
12-05-2005, 12:24 PM
where they still haven't figured out how to get a decal on both sides of the helmet.

There's a good reason for that. It helps them figure out how to put the helmets on. "Logo goes on the right."

Johnny Footstool
12-05-2005, 01:04 PM
And none of those fumbles resulted in a TO. The fumble TO was Ward's. Parker's second fumble was a helmet on ball collision.

Right, but it does prove that the Bengals' knack for turnovers isn't all luck. They are actually skilled at stripping the ball and intercepting passes.

wheels
12-05-2005, 01:12 PM
Oh man.

Yesterday's win seems to be one of those games that we'll think of years and years from now.

Like the 81 Freezer Bowl, and subsequent Super Bowl (I was seven, and locked myself in my closet at halftime so nobody could see me cry), the 88 AFC Championship and Super Bowl, the 61-7 win over Houston, The Last Playoff Appearance, and the "You Don't Live in Cleveland" game.

Wow.

I'm just realizing this.

wheels
12-05-2005, 01:19 PM
Right, but it does prove that the Bengals' knack for turnovers isn't all luck. They are actually skilled at stripping the ball and intercepting passes.

I think there's some validity to that.

In most games, the opposing team will make a mistake or two, and the team with good ball awareness and positioning will take advantage of them. It's mostly a by product of good coaching.

But there's also a luck factor involved, and I'm not sure a gawdy +24 turnover ratio is something that can be counted on and repeated from year to year.

I'm enjoying it this season, and the defense will get better with a healthy Madieu Williams, and hopefully some productive accquisitions, along with continued maturation from guys like Thurman and Pollack next season.

traderumor
12-05-2005, 01:25 PM
I think there's some validity to that.

In most games, the opposing team will make a mistake or two, and the team with good ball awareness and positioning will take advantage of them. It's mostly a by product of good coaching.

But there's also a luck factor involved, and I'm not sure a gawdy +24 turnover ratio is something that can be counted on and repeated from year to year.

I'm enjoying it this season, and the defense will get better with a healthy Madieu Williams, and hopefully some productive accquisitions, along with continued maturation from guys like Thurman and Pollack next season.

Most of the margin is INT's (skill), not fumbles (more luck involved).

traderumor
12-05-2005, 01:26 PM
There's a good reason for that. It helps them figure out how to put the helmets on. "Logo goes on the right."That would explain why the Browns have to go over that in training camp, then. You just don't want guys with their facemasks guarding the back of their head.

CrackerJack
12-05-2005, 01:43 PM
So you and I are the same age. I remember the BBSs. I had a 300 baud modem back in the late 80s and I can remember thinking that I had something fairly high tech. I remember one board boasting that they had a 1 meg hard drive. Now that's some massive storage space.

You could go into a record store and still find records. Most of the aisles were full of cassettes, with the LPs off to the side and a really small section with those new CDs.

I had a VCR that had a remote with a really long cord that plugged into the front of the machine.

I think I once paid about $10.00 for a blue seat at a Reds game.

And when San Francisco won the NFC championship so they could play the Bengals in the Super Bowl, I was so glad because I wanted payback from '81. I HATED San Fran back then, and the result of the '88 Super Bowl only cemented it. There is a part of me that still wishes they were playing well so that we could play them in another Super Bowl soon and have a chance for a payback.


Hehe, I hear ya.

I had a 14.4k modem and it was blazin! My PC only needed 4MB's of RAM, and my Mac had a 33mhz processor - and it cost me over $2,000, and that was a few years after 1990.

The term DVD did not exist.

Reds' tickets were $5 for the upper red and the both teams played at Riverfront and of course the Reds' just won a WS and were supposed to dominate the 90's.

Mason OH was still a cow town with a lot of fields and empty spaces.

Football players still wore neck rolls and hip pads.

Cars came with ash trays by default still, and people smoked en masse in the hallways between classes at NKU where I went to school.

westofyou
12-05-2005, 01:47 PM
And when San Francisco won the NFC championship so they could play the Bengals in the Super Bowl, I was so glad because I wanted payback from '81. I HATED San Fran back then,Try moving there after 81 and living with that for 10 plus years.

I STILL hate them.

OldRightHander
12-05-2005, 01:50 PM
Football players still wore neck rolls and hip pads.

Cars came with ash trays by default still, and people smoked en masse in the hallways between classes at NKU where I went to school.

I remember the hip pads. I was just a kicker in HS and I still had to wear them. I never wore the neck roll though.

I was at NKU from '88-'91. It seemed like everyone smoked all over campus and I had to hold my breath in some of the hallways.

westofyou
12-05-2005, 02:01 PM
people smoked en masse in the hallways between classes at NKU where I went to school.I had a prof at UC that let us smoke in class, she did as well.

Johnny Footstool
12-05-2005, 02:04 PM
Most of the margin is INT's (skill), not fumbles (more luck involved).

Don't forget the fact that the Bengals are tied for an NFL-low 13 giveaways. They protect the ball like crazy.

westofyou
12-05-2005, 02:06 PM
Don't forget the fact that the Bengals are tied for an NFL-low 13 giveaways. They protect the ball like crazy.Johnny haven't you been listening?

The Bengals suck and are lucky.:laugh:

Johnny Footstool
12-05-2005, 02:09 PM
The Bengals suck and are lucky.

Jason Whitlock, is that you?

SteelSD
12-05-2005, 02:12 PM
Terrific- a Browns and a Steelers fan discussing how good the Bengals are. How is the view today boys? 2 back with 4 to go? Don't like your chances, do you? Oh- and good luck against the Bears next week (the Bengals beat them, if you'll remember).

As soon as Pitt had to start a single game with Tommy Maddox at QB, I knew they had issues. In fact, I knew they had issues when the decided that Cedric Wilson was their #2 receiver and that Larry Foote was allegedly an answer at ILB. You don't need to try to trash talk. I completely understand (and understood) what Pitt's outlook was from the get-go.


Well, they lined up pretty well against the Colts, didn't they? :)

Or weren't they healthy and playing good football?

Pittsburgh did? What? Did you actually watch the Pitt/Indy game???


Look- you can come up with whatever diatribe you want, the Bengals did well today, especially playing on the road. To somehow suggest that they were lucky because Pittsburgh shot themselves in the foot or was playing poorly coming in...I mean, c'mon, that pretty much describes 95% of every team's losses.

I "suggested" nothing of the sort. Cincy quite obviously deserved to win that football game. However, if you think allowing 31 points to THAT offense bodes well for the future, you've got quite the skewed outlook on things.


You're just mad that the catapult you use to jettison that lard butt Bettis didn't work this time.

Weak.


Pittsburgh was playing poorly coming in for two reasons: one, they didn't have Roethlisberger when they lost to Baltimore. Secondly, they ran into a team named the Indianapolis Colts last week. Most teams have come up weak against them, haven't they? And both of those games were on the road.

They lost to a putz of a Baltimore team and played stupidly against the Colts. The offense has been sputtering for quite some time now- particularly their offensive line.


I'm not buying this woe is me over the Steelers.

They are something like 28-2 with Big Ben playing, so to beat them was simply awesome.

And a bunch of those wins didn't happen this season. See, THIS season isn't LAST season. That's kinda' easy for most folks to figure out. It's not the same team. THIS season's Pitt team deserved what they got on Sunday.


Sounds like someone is making excuses after taking a big swig of sour grape juice.

Actually, all I was doing was giving an assessment of where Pitt currently is. You're reading far too much into things.


Oh yeah, those awful Steelers. They just play bad fundamental football. They just lost their first road game in over a year, probably, and they went to the AFC championship game last year. Yeah, they're just terrible.

I tell you, if they constantly shoot themselves in the foot, they better get some target practice- quick.

Pitt does play bad fundamental football at the worst possible times. And again, LAST season isn't THIS season. LAST season, they were good enough to overcome that. THIS season, they are not. That's not a difficult concept for most folks to grasp. You, however...

SteelSD
12-05-2005, 02:19 PM
Tab Perry dragged a guy 25 yards, and you want to say he didn't do anything to earn the return? Dude, I respect the hell out of you, but whatever.

I was talking about the initial coverage- not Ike Taylor's tackle attempt (there was no way he was going to drag down Perry with Perry having a full head of steam). Certainly Perry did a nice job on that.

The coverage itself was awful. Perry did nothing to break that run but simply head to the sideline and turn down the field. Kickoff coverage has been a serious issue all year long for Pitt- particularly (and don't ask me why) after scores. They've consistently handed points back to their opponents because of poor coverage all season long, so I wasn't at all surprised when they didn't contain Perry. That's all I was saying- that I wasn't surprised because it's something Pittsburgh isn't good at.

wheels
12-05-2005, 02:26 PM
Most of the margin is INT's (skill), not fumbles (more luck involved).

Agreed.

Those corners aren't the fastest guys in the league, but their ball skills are as good as it gets.

Btw...I'm not saying the Bengals have been lucky at all.

Can't always count on turnovers is all.

OldRightHander
12-05-2005, 02:31 PM
You can't always count on turnovers. That's true, but I think what we have is Marvin knowing the strengths and weaknesses of the defensive personnel he has at his disposal and coaching them to emphasize the strengths in an effort to make up for the weak areas. This isn't a team that can flat out shut down the run and be in the QB's face all day long, so they emphasize trying to force turnovers. They're not going to force opposing offences into 3 and out possessions all day long. The turnover is their bread and butter right now. You get a good run stuffing DL in there that can give you a decent pass rush, and this would be one of the best defenses in the league.

SteelSD
12-05-2005, 02:40 PM
I agree. I love reading your posts Steel, but that remark makes me think there is some serious Bengals hate going on.

That's your misperception, but my own lesson learned is starting to look like, "Don't show up after the Bengals beat your favorite team and talk about what actually happened or so much as mention your team's deficiencies."

Eh, I exaggerate of course. There will always be fans who have a fair take on the state of the two teams that took the field and what happened during the game. And there will always be fans (like Heffner) who couldn't care less. I have no illusions about that, just like I had no illusions about Pitt's regular season win against New England last season or their 15-1 record OR where they are right now. You don't start off at 7-2 and end up at 7-5 after Sunday unless you have ISSUES.

And I actually like the Bengals. I've rooted for them in the past. I'll root for them in the playoffs. But if it's ok with you, I'll root more for the defense than the offense because that D needs all the support it can get.

wheels
12-05-2005, 02:43 PM
You can't always count on turnovers. That's true, but I think what we have is Marvin knowing the strengths and weaknesses of the defensive personnel he has at his disposal and coaching them to emphasis the strenghts in an effort to make up for the weak areas. This isn't a team that can flat out shut down the run and be in the QB's face all day long, so they emphasize trying to force turnovers. They're not going to force opposing offences into 3 and out possessions all day long. The turnover is their bread and butter right now. You get a good run stuffing DL in there that can give you a decent pass rush, and this would be one of the best defenses in the league.

Really good point.

I really like the young linebackers.

Landon Johnson's quietly playing like Reggie Williams, Odell's gonna be an absolute star, and Pollack's eventually going to be a big plus. Once Simmons' day is done, having those three on the field on a regular basis is something to look forward to.

I was impressed with Fanene and Shaun Smith yesterday as well, but they are going to have to bring someone in that takes up more space, preferably a veteran.

They're also going to need to draft a young corner to eventually replace Tory James. Ratliff's shown some flashes, but I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be with him if he's left on an island.

Oh yeah, and they need Madieu back desperately.

wheels
12-05-2005, 02:52 PM
That's your misperception, but my own lesson learned is starting to look like, "Don't show up after the Bengals beat your favorite team and talk about what actually happened or so much as mention your team's deficiencies."

Eh, I exaggerate of course. There will always be fans who have a fair take on the state of the two teams that took the field and what happened during the game. And there will always be fans (like Heffner) who couldn't care less. I have no illusions about that, just like I had no illusions about Pitt's regular season win against New England last season or their 15-1 record OR where they are right now. You don't start off at 7-2 and end up at 7-5 after Sunday unless you have ISSUES.

And I actually like the Bengals. I've rooted for them in the past. I'll root for them in the playoffs. But if it's ok with you, I'll root more for the defense than the offense because that D needs all the support it can get.


Issues is right.

That Steeler offensive line can't seem to move guys off the ball enough. I couldn't concieve of the Bengals holding them to under 100 yards on the ground.

Ben put the ball up 41 times, but I wonder if it wasn't more out of a lack of confidence in the running game that caused it.

That was the first time I've seen a Pittsuburgh team try to win a shootout, and it almost worked.

I think the approach took Bresnahan by surprise, but I didn't notice the Bengals loosening up at all. It seems like they conceded the passing yards to assure that they had enough guys up front to stop the run.

paintmered
12-05-2005, 02:53 PM
Two wins and Cincy hosts a playoff game. Four wins and Cincy gets another bye week.

The job is not done. No let downs.

Dom Heffner
12-05-2005, 02:56 PM
Pittsburgh did? What? Did you actually watch the Pitt/Indy game???


No, Cincy did. Your comment was that if the Bengals played so bad against a team like the Steelers, then how would they line up against a decent team? My point was to say CIncy played pretty well against the Colts. Yeah, they gave up a lot of points, but the Colts score that way on everyone. We stayed witht them for four quarters, which is lining up pretty well against a decent team.


I "suggested" nothing of the sort. Cincy quite obviously deserved to win that football game. However, if you think allowing 31 points to THAT offense bodes well for the future, you've got quite the skewed outlook on things.

You told GAC that you agreed that he shouldn't be impressed by the Bengals. So what, they deserved to win but they were unimpressive?



Pitt does play bad fundamental football at the worst possible times. And again, LAST season isn't THIS season. LAST season, they were good enough to overcome that. THIS season, they are not. That's not a difficult concept for most folks to grasp. You, however...

So you won 15 games last year by playing bad fundamental football? Wow. Maybe more coaches should teach their players the Steelers system. :jump:

Sounds like someone else needs to adjust their grip on that concept you were talking about....

rdiersin
12-05-2005, 02:57 PM
Really good point.

I really like the young linebackers.

Landon Johnson's quietly playing like Reggie Williams, Odell's gonna be an absolute star, and Pollack's eventually going to be a big plus. Once Simmons' day is done, having those three on the field on a regular basis is something to look forward to.

I was impressed with Fanene and Shaun Smith yesterday as well, but they are going to have to bring someone in that takes up more space, preferably a veteran.

They're also going to need to draft a young corner to eventually replace Tory James. Ratliff's shown some flashes, but I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be with him if he's left on an island.

Oh yeah, and they need Madieu back desperately.

I agree with the linebackers. I've always liked Landon Johnson, of course I am biased though since he is a Boilermaker, but he leads the team in tackles for loss. He is fast, he's not big. That's really the problem with the bengals D right now. With their small DT, it makes it tough to stop the run inside with the combination. Now, I don't understand why people would try and run outside on them, because the LBs are fast enough to get out there, but inside is the problem. At least that's what I've seen.

OldRightHander
12-05-2005, 02:59 PM
That Pitt team had some issues, but they still put up a pretty good fight. You have to hand it to them for that. I figured we would have a pretty good chance with their O line being banged up and Ben being less than 100%, but they still almost pulled the game out despite those problems. The Bengals D does have some room to improve. A good safety and a couple defensive tackles would be a good start.

paintmered
12-05-2005, 03:04 PM
I agree with the linebackers. I've always liked Landon Johnson, of course I am biased though since he is a Boilermaker, but he leads the team in tackles for loss. He is fast, he's not big. That's really the problem with the bengals D right now. With their small DT, it makes it tough to stop the run inside with the combination. Now, I don't understand why people would try and run outside on them, because the LBs are fast enough to get out there, but inside is the problem. At least that's what I've seen.

I agree. This team needs to address two critical areas through free agency and the draft:

1) Interior defensive line.
2) Secondary. They need a stud corner to eventually replace Tory. Tory is adequate, but he's aging and I believe next year will be the end of his run. They also need a safety to compliment Madieu.

Other positions on my wish list: TE, DE and P.

traderumor
12-05-2005, 03:29 PM
One thing that was most impressive yesterday was Rudi continually remaining standing and grinding out 4 yards out of no gains. I think that really demoralized the Steelers' defense. I've been bragging on Chris Perry all year, but yesterday wasn't his game, it was Rudi's, and those were some tough 98 yards he accumulated, and with some of the hits, to not fumble even once was game ball material.

SteelSD
12-05-2005, 04:34 PM
Issues is right.

That Steeler offensive line can't seem to move guys off the ball enough. I couldn't concieve of the Bengals holding them to under 100 yards on the ground.

Their starting Left Tackle is out so they used rookie Trai Essex there. The guy wasn't even dressed for a game up until he started his first game. The result is that Pitt can't use Heath Miller as often as they need to because they need Miller to stay back to help block on passing downs. Their RT just sucks. Cowher left them undermanned this season on the O-Line and it's showing. As for the run, there isn't much you can do when you're consistently behind even if your O-Line is solid.


Ben put the ball up 41 times, but I wonder if it wasn't more out of a lack of confidence in the running game that caused it.

That was the first time I've seen a Pittsuburgh team try to win a shootout, and it almost worked.

Problem is that it can't work without a solid #2 receiver. Cedric Wilson, for all his complaining about not seeing balls thrown to him, drops enough that I wouldn't throw to him. Quincy Morgan can run very fast in a straight line, but has few ball skills and can't get open. Yay. Randle El is a slot guy who needs to stay a slot guy. And he's prone to dumb mistakes to boot.


I think the approach took Bresnahan by surprise, but I didn't notice the Bengals loosening up at all. It seems like they conceded the passing yards to assure that they had enough guys up front to stop the run.

If I were playing Pitt when Big Ben has a bum hand and one actual Wideout to throw to, I'd stack up to stop the run as well.

ochre
12-05-2005, 04:49 PM
The bengals D has sacrificed yards for Turnovers all year. When it works, they win. When it doesn't they lose. Jacksonville, Pittsburg part I, and Indianapolis didn't turn it over (at least not enough to make up for the yardage/points). That's really as complicated as it is. This team will not be able to regularly beat a good offensive team. They can score on anybody, but Milton's pitching for the D.

traderumor
12-05-2005, 04:55 PM
The bengals D has sacrificed yards for Turnovers all year. When it works, they win. When it doesn't they lose. Jacksonville, Pittsburg part I, and Indianapolis didn't turn it over (at least not enough to make up for the yardage/points). That's really as complicated as it is. This team will not be able to regularly beat a good offensive team. They can score on anybody, but Milton's pitching for the D.The D isn't that bad. At least Harang is on the mound for comparison purposes.

SteelSD
12-05-2005, 04:57 PM
No, Cincy did. Your comment was that if the Bengals played so bad against a team like the Steelers, then how would they line up against a decent team?

No. That was not my comment and I'd appreciate it if you'd cease and desist the "words-in-mouth" game. I noted that Pitt had issues offensively and the Cincinnati defensive performance does not bode well for future games against good offenses. I did NOT say the Bengals played badly. In fact, the Bengals played about as well as they can play.


My point was to say CIncy played pretty well against the Colts. Yeah, they gave up a lot of points, but the Colts score that way on everyone. We stayed witht them for four quarters, which is lining up pretty well against a decent team.

Yeah, Cincy lost to Indy in very much the same fashion Cinci beat Pitt this past Sunday. The Bengals defense gave up 76 points in those two games. And that inspires confidence why exactly?

Funny. I was LESS encouraged about Pitt BEATING New England last regular season than you are about the Bengals "lining up" in a loss to Indy this season. Myopic homerism produces illiogical reactions like yours pretty consistently.


You told GAC that you agreed that he shouldn't be impressed by the Bengals. So what, they deserved to win but they were unimpressive?

Their defense was exceptionally unimpressive. It's impossible for you to not to know that. The Bengals have a very good offense. That's never been a question or a point of contention so maybe you can narrow your focus from here on out.


So you won 15 games last year by playing bad fundamental football? Wow. Maybe more coaches should teach their players the Steelers system.

I didn't win 15 games last season. Pittsburgh did.

Is this last year or this year? Simple question, but for you it appears to be far more difficult. Heck, the Pats have three more losses than they did last year. The Bengals have more Wins. At what point do you figure out that LAST season is an entirely different thing than THIS season?

The Steelers do dumb things a LOT. They did so last year, just to let you know. But they were more talented last year as well so they were able to overcome. See, talented teams overcome their shortcomings better than less talented teams. It's not a difficult concept to grasp really. Well, for most folks.


Sounds like someone else needs to adjust their grip on that concept you were talking about....

Well, at least this conversation has produced a result- I now know who not to rely on in order to get a balanced, realistic view of the Cincinnati Bengals.

ochre
12-05-2005, 05:42 PM
see, you are wrong Steel. There was nothing exceptional about how poorly the Bengals D played. That's what they've been doing all year. :)

WMR
12-05-2005, 07:04 PM
Hines Ward is always imitating other people's celebrations. I think it's stupid. Be your own man, come up with your own silly little celebration. Imitating others in that respect is beyond lame.

GAC
12-05-2005, 09:35 PM
I don't think any Bengal fan has any misconception about the defense.

What we're happy about is the fact that they're 9-3.

Explain it away all you want, and then try to it explain it away when they win the division. I couldn't care less.

Are they gonna go deep into the playoffs?

Maybe.

What if they win a shootout or two in the playoffs? Will it be worth less than any other playoff win?

I really don't care if they get bounced in the first round. They're a work in progress, and they're the first team that I've rooted for that has had a winning record in six years. There's no way I can be dissappointed now, and there's no way that any of the naysayers can understand that because because none of you have had to endure fifteen years of losing football like most Bengals fans have.

I'm sorry that your world has been turned upside down now that the Bengals are winning, but you'd better get used to it. They aren't going anywhere for awhile.


No one's world has been turned upside down. Nor is anyone trying to make excuses or rationalize as to how/why the Bengals are winning. They're winning because they have a good team. I stated that the best thing the Bengals ever did towards turning this organization around was when they hired Lewis. I also stated on an thread earlier this season, when many Bengal fans were making predictions on how they'd finish (many said 10-6), that I boldly stated they'd finish 13-3. ;)

Their losses coming to Indy, Steelers (split), and Jacksonville. So far so good, though they may get a fight/loss in KC at season's end due to the fact the game wouldn't matter and Lewis may pull players for the post-season.

But stating that their defense is pretty atrocious and may prove to be their downfall in the postseason is simply observing and pointing out the obvious....not saying anyone WANTS or HOPES this happens because they want the Bengals to fail.

I'm a Browns fans, yet I root for the Bengals because I'm a loyal Ohioan. With the exception of OSU as of late, this state has long periods without winners/champions. ;)

GAC
12-05-2005, 09:36 PM
Hines Ward is always imitating other people's celebrations. I think it's stupid. Be your own man, come up with your own silly little celebration. Imitating others in that respect is beyond lame.

Johnson mimmicks TO and several other flashy receivers. Where do you think he got his schtick? ;)

wheels
12-05-2005, 09:54 PM
No one's world has been turned upside down. Nor is anyone trying to make excuses or rationalize as to how/why the Bengals are winning. They're winning because they have a good team. I stated that the best thing the Bengals ever did towards turning this organization around was when they hired Lewis. I also stated on an thread earlier this season, when many Bengal fans were making predictions on how they'd finish (many said 10-6), that I boldly stated they'd finish 13-3. ;)

Their losses coming to Indy, Steelers (split), and Jacksonville. So far so good, though they may get a fight/loss in KC at season's end due to the fact the game wouldn't matter and Lewis may pull players for the post-season.

But stating that their defense is pretty atrocious and may prove to be their downfall in the postseason is simply observing and pointing out the obvious....not saying anyone WANTS or HOPES this happens because they want the Bengals to fail.

I'm a Browns fans, yet I root for the Bengals because I'm a loyal Ohioan. With the exception of OSU as of late, this state has long periods without winners/champions. ;)


Awww..C'mon, GAC.

You don't have to root for 'em, you're a Browns fan.

You should relish jumping on Chad Johnson for making one of his Muhammed Ali quotes, and you should be feeling a little envious, you're a Browns fan for crying out loud.:evil:

I don't expect you to be in the Bengals' corner.

You should probably bad mouth them more than you do.;)

Falls City Beer
12-05-2005, 09:59 PM
Honestly: can anyone name a postseason-bound AFC team with a defense?

That may be all that matters. (Apologies if this has already been mentioned.)

Cuz I'd be perfectly fine running the Bengals up against Indy one more time. I'd take my chances.

SunDeck
12-05-2005, 10:10 PM
I had a prof at UC that let us smoke in class, she did as well.
DAAP?

wheels
12-05-2005, 10:28 PM
Honestly: can anyone name a postseason-bound AFC team with a defense?

That may be all that matters. (Apologies if this has already been mentioned.)

Cuz I'd be perfectly fine running the Bengals up against Indy one more time. I'd take my chances.

If the Bengals palyed the Colts ten times, they'd win five.