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View Full Version : Rumor out of Chicago: Kearns to the Cubs?



Outshined_One
12-05-2005, 07:52 PM
Just thought I'd drop in with a bit of an update out of Chicago. George Ofman of WSCR the Score 670 reported that the Reds either offered or were seeking Cubs pitchers Sergio Mitre and Ricky Nolasco (AA minor leaguer) in a deal for Austin Kearns.

I'll follow this up by saying that Ofman is not the most respected of Cubs journalists out there, but that he has had his scoops from time to time.

CincyRedsFan30
12-05-2005, 08:00 PM
From what I've heard, there could be something to this.

It sounds like Casey/Kearns are the two names that have been discussed the most in recent discussions.

I'll leave it at that for now.

M2
12-05-2005, 08:00 PM
The Reds could do worse. Reynel Pinto still interests me, though. Might prefer him to Mitre.

reds44
12-05-2005, 08:04 PM
Wow, I live in Chicago and haven't heard this one yet.

*flips on the score.

Redsland
12-05-2005, 08:05 PM
The Reds could do worse.
That sounds like a challenge. Kind of like, "all you can eat."

RedsIn07
12-05-2005, 08:12 PM
Paging Big Donkey... Paging Big Donkey...

StillFunkyB
12-05-2005, 08:15 PM
I would be dissapointed with that deal, then again I don't know that much about those players, and I still hope for what we saw before that fat retard sat on him.

cincyinco
12-05-2005, 08:16 PM
I never understood the reds apparent fascination with Mitre. Nolasco is nice, but I dont know... I just feel that a 2-5 5.37ERA 1.41WHIP pitcher doesn't excite me. Even with Nolasco added. Hang on to Kearns, his value may be low.. so let him play and hopefully it rises.

I would be pretty unhappy if this went down.

cincyinco
12-05-2005, 08:17 PM
I would be dissapointed with that deal, then again I don't know that much about those players, and I still hope for what we saw before that fat retard sat on him.

Here is what BA had to say about Nolasco:


7. RICKY NOLASCO, rhp Age: 23 B-T: R-R Ht: 6-2 Wt.: 200
Drafted: HSóRialto, Calif., 2001 (4th round) Signed by: Spider Jorgensen



Background: For years, Nolasco had been overshadowed by fellow 2001 Cubs draftees Mark Prior, Andy Sisco and Sergio Mitre, as well as several other young pitchers in the system. Nolasco previously was most notable for being included in a 2003 trade with the Rangers that Rafael Palmeiro vetoed. That all changed in 2005, when he was named Southern League pitcher of the year after leading the league in wins and strikeouts.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Strengths:
Nolasco has above-average pitches with his low-90s fastball and his curveball, and he throws his changeup for strikes. Managers rated his command the best in the Southern League. He has a tremendous feel for pitching.
Weaknesses:
When Nolasco was sent to Triple-A before he was ready in 2004, he didnít handle it well. He dropped down with his breaking ball, trying to aim it for strikes, and didnít have the confidence to use his changeup.
The Future:
After spending most of the last two seasons in Double-A, Nolasco will get another shot at Triple-A in 2006. If he passes that test, heíll get called up later in the year. The Cubs have a number of starting candidates, so he could wind up in the bullpen.



2005 Club (Class) W L ERA G GS CG SV IP H HR BB SO AVG
West Tenn (AA) 14 3 2.89 27 27 1 0 162 151 13 46 173 .245

SteelSD
12-05-2005, 08:24 PM
The Reds could do worse. Reynel Pinto still interests me, though. Might prefer him to Mitre.

There are few real prospects I wouldn't prefer to Sergio Mitre. The guy is complete pyrite. Knowing that, the proposed value coming back is pretty isolated to Nolasco. That being the case, I wouldn't move on that trade at all.

Outshined_One
12-05-2005, 08:34 PM
I've always felt that Mitre got a bad rap in Chicago. He was constantly the 6th/7th man pretty much during the duration of time he spent in Chicago. Typically, he'd only see limited spots of action, then either get tossed back to AAA or left to rot in an overcrowded bullpen to be used sporadically. He has shown his share of flashes, but I do not think he's ever been given a fair chance to crack the rotation and stay in it. Also, using him as a reliever is a hyuuuuuuuuuuuge mistake since his slider typically takes time to get warmed up. He got shellacked in relief appearances this year for a reason.

I think he could make a decent #3/#4 somewhere if given the opportunity.

Gallen5862
12-05-2005, 09:00 PM
This deal might not be to bad Mitre and Nolasco would at least be some pitching that we need.

flyer85
12-05-2005, 09:05 PM
SOund like a load of hooey. Cubbies dreamin again. Like last year around the trade dealine.

Petitt33
12-05-2005, 09:08 PM
My sources say this is a BS rumor, but we'll have to wait and see...

Falls City Beer
12-05-2005, 09:11 PM
Pena for Nolasco and call it a day.

Topcat
12-05-2005, 09:24 PM
OK just chirping in with my opinion but mitre and nolasco for kearns is a deal I would do. If it goes down archive my thoughts. It is a good deal for the Reds.

wheels
12-05-2005, 10:15 PM
Nay on Mitre.

Kearns doesn't have much value on the trade market, or so it seems.

He won't cost much money, so if they can get more for Pena, that's the avenue they should pursue.

Krusty
12-05-2005, 10:19 PM
If that is the best we can get for Kearns, just keep him.

SteelSD
12-05-2005, 10:30 PM
I've always felt that Mitre got a bad rap in Chicago. He was constantly the 6th/7th man pretty much during the duration of time he spent in Chicago. Typically, he'd only see limited spots of action, then either get tossed back to AAA or left to rot in an overcrowded bullpen to be used sporadically. He has shown his share of flashes, but I do not think he's ever been given a fair chance to crack the rotation and stay in it. Also, using him as a reliever is a hyuuuuuuuuuuuge mistake since his slider typically takes time to get warmed up. He got shellacked in relief appearances this year for a reason.

I think he could make a decent #3/#4 somewhere if given the opportunity.

Mitre was put in the pen because he's got nothing BUT a slider (and an inconsistent one at that). It's the primary reason lefties crush him. If he becomes someone he isn't, he might have a shot at a #3/#4 for someone, but he's not that someone else. He's Sergio Mitre.

Topcat
12-05-2005, 10:33 PM
Mitre was put in the pen because he's got nothing BUT a slider (and an inconsistent one at that). It's the primary reason lefties crush him. If he becomes someone he isn't, he might have a shot at a #3/#4 for someone, but he's not that someone else. He's Sergio Mitre.

Care to make a comment on Nolasco ? Mitre may not be great but I can name 4 pitchers on the staff i would rather have mitre than them.

ED44
12-05-2005, 10:39 PM
I am with the majority...if that's the best you can get...just keep him.

I wonder what it would take to get Greinke from KC...Kearns or Pena and ????

Superdude
12-05-2005, 11:56 PM
I still like Mitre. He had a bit of a rough year last year, but he's got a good low 90's sinker that led to a GB/FB ratio up over 3. He had a couple great starts last year too and would fit in nicely at GABP.

Outshined_One
12-06-2005, 12:08 AM
Mitre was put in the pen because he's got nothing BUT a slider (and an inconsistent one at that). It's the primary reason lefties crush him. If he becomes someone he isn't, he might have a shot at a #3/#4 for someone, but he's not that someone else. He's Sergio Mitre.

#1 - His primary pitch is a sinker, not a slider. His slider is the main breaking pitch he uses, but it's nowhere near the quality of his sinker (although it's a good pitch). His problem is that it typically takes him an inning or two before he gets his sinker going. Couple that with the fact that his change is at best a slightly above average pitch (and thus he doesn't always trust it) and you have a guy who is not cut out for middle relief.

#2 - As I mentioned, Dusty Baker has not made Mitre's life easy. He's been buried in middle relief. He would go days between relief appearances on a number of occasions. I feel that his numbers are more reflective of his performances in the minors than in the majors (save (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=250608116) for (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=250614116) a (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=250524116) few (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=240410115) games (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=240515125)).

Speaking as some one who tracks and compiles minor league statistical information and scouting reports on the Cubs minor leagues, I really like what I see in Mitre. He's competitive, he owns a very good pitch in his sinker, and has a future as a #3 guy in the league if he more consistently trusts his change. Considering the ballpark the Reds play him, I'd have to imagine he would be quite welcome, given the fact that he doesn't give up many HRs.

This is all a moot point anyways if this report from Rotoworld is true...although the source is a bit questionable.


Austin Kearns - OF - Reds


Cubs GM Jim Hendry said today that he hasn't had any discussions with the Reds regarding one of the team's outfielders.
There were radio rumors today about Austin Kearns being offered to the Cubs for Sergio Mitre and another pitcher. This makes it seem as though there were no truth to them. Dec. 5 - 11:16 pm et
Source: cubs.mlb.com

NewEraReds
12-06-2005, 12:29 AM
Just thought I'd drop in with a bit of an update out of Chicago. George Ofman of WSCR the Score 670 reported that the Reds either offered or were seeking Cubs pitchers Sergio Mitre and Ricky Nolasco (AA minor leaguer) in a deal for Austin Kearns.

I'll follow this up by saying that Ofman is not the most respected of Cubs journalists out there, but that he has had his scoops from time to time.
if we do anything near that trade for kearns, dan o should be banned from baseball. this guy has the absolute worst eye for talent. talent evaluator he is not. and this is not just in looking at players to potentially get. but ones he already has

NewEraReds
12-06-2005, 12:31 AM
This deal might not be to bad Mitre and Nolasco would at least be some pitching that we need.
again with the getting something just to get it. you dont go out and get something just to get it. if there is no value, you pass.

kearns cant go down in value. only up. so if you cant get what you should for him now. you wait till you can

NewEraReds
12-06-2005, 12:33 AM
Care to make a comment on Nolasco ? Mitre may not be great but I can name 4 pitchers on the staff i would rather have mitre than them.
yea, but you dont give up kearns for them. you seem to not care that we are giving something up. you compare mitre to players we have already. but getting mitre means giving up kearns. so you have to look at it. mitre or pitcher a on the reds and kearns. ill take option 2.

Big Donkey
12-06-2005, 12:41 AM
Paging Big Donkey... Paging Big Donkey...

First time I've checked on here since this story broke. From what I know, there has allegedly been talk between CIN and CHC, but I also got the Hendry bite with the denial of talks between the teams. Not to sound like a doubting Thomas, but you can take a whole lot of quotes this time of year with a grain of salt. Anyway, I'd say this deal probably came up, but I don't know if it went very far. From the standpoint of a Reds fan, I would hope the Reds shoot higher than Mitre as a principal in deal, but I am sure Cubs fans can say the same things about Kearns underachieving Reds fans can say about Mitre. Nolasco's not bad as the secondary guy. Anyway, as far as if a deal would happen, I am somewhere in the middle of two different reports (one saying it's "close" and one saying talks never happened). I would say talks have happened, but "nothing is imminent". How's that Dan-O speak for ya?

Gallen5862
12-06-2005, 01:00 AM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/cincinnati_reds/index.html
Update: Kearns For Jerome Williams
According to Bruce Levine of ESPN Radio 1000, the Austin Kearns trade talk has gotten serious and Jerome Williams, not Sergio Mitre, would be included in the deal.

This new incarnation of the deal seems more equitable. Unlike Mitre, Williams has had success in the Major Leagues in his career. He pitched 106 innings after being dealt to the Cubs for LaTroy Hawkins, posting a 3.91 ERA and 1.35 WHIP. Williams posted a spectacular 2.10 ERA in five September starts.

harangatang
12-06-2005, 01:43 AM
I hate dealing in the division but I think Williams would be a good addition overall for the Reds. In 106 innings for the Cubs he allowed 12 HR's and allowed an opponent's batting average of .253 which is great, but I'm a little concerned of his K/BB ratio of 59/44. I still say go for it.

NewEraReds
12-06-2005, 01:51 AM
no thank you! to me you have 4 types of players. not ready with great potential. ready with great potential. ready but no potential. and proven star. dan o seems to like that 3rd one. ready but no potential. he wants guys who can play right now but have no potential of getting better. just a bunch of hacks who are just good enough to play on a crap team like ours.

Topcat
12-06-2005, 02:59 AM
no thank you! to me you have 4 types of players. not ready with great potential. ready with great potential. ready but no potential. and proven star. dan o seems to like that 3rd one. ready but no potential. he wants guys who can play right now but have no potential of getting better. just a bunch of hacks who are just good enough to play on a crap team like ours.

And Austin has just lit it up and is going to be all world right ?

buckeyenut
12-06-2005, 09:18 AM
Williams and Nolasco for Kearns would be a great deal to me.

Benihana
12-06-2005, 09:46 AM
I would definitely prefer to deal Casey first, and then evaluate things from there. My first preference would be to deal Casey to Boston for Arroyo and Youkilis if possible. If not, I would look at the Pittsburgh offer.

I would consider trading Kearns to the Cubs for Sergio Mitre AND Jerome Williams, but nothing less than that. The AA kid Nolasco does nothing for me (and I live in Chicago). Anything short of Williams and Mitre, I hang on to Kearns for the time being. Trading him now would be selling the low, although I would still prefer moving him than Pena.

If we can ship Casey out, I look at moving either Dunn or Griffey to 1B for the time being, and if we get a good enough offer for Kearns, Pena OR (preferably) Griffey, then I trade them for pitching and/or a good young 2B. Then I move Dunn/Griffey back to the OF and play Youk at 1B. This is my ideal scenario, but knowing Dan O, it will remain just that- a pipe dream.

As far as the pitching goes, I like the idea of having Harang and Claussen locked into the rotation, with Williams, Mitre, Arroyo, and (gasp!) Milton battling it out for the final three spots, with the loser going into the long relief/spot starter role. Other than Milton, I believe all of these guys are under 28 and all have showed some promise at the ML level, the latter of which is a qualification most of our acquiree targets have lacked in the past.

flyer85
12-06-2005, 10:36 AM
from rotoworld


Cubs GM Jim Hendry said today that he hasn't had any discussions with the Reds regarding one of the team's outfielders.
There were radio rumors today about Austin Kearns being offered to the Cubs for Sergio Mitre and another pitcher. This makes it seem as though there were no truth to them.

SteelSD
12-06-2005, 10:56 AM
Care to make a comment on Nolasco ? Mitre may not be great but I can name 4 pitchers on the staff i would rather have mitre than them.

He's young. He's got a fine arm. That being said, his H/IP rate is a little high for a high K pitcher in the minors and he's been pitching in a pitcher's league over the last two seasons (Southern League). West Tennessee had the 2nd lowest Park Factor in the Southern League in 2004 and Nolasco still managed to give up 13 HR in 107 IP. He gave up 13 HR in 161.2 IP in 2005 in the same league. While not exceptionally high, it's also not quite low enough for me when coupled with a mediocre H/IP rate (for a guy who's supposedly a top prospect).

There are things to like and things that scare me.

Unassisted
12-06-2005, 11:12 AM
These Sun-Times columnists are downplaying the rumor.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/baseball/cst-spt-chint06.html

RED ALERT: Reports in Cincinnati say the Reds have shifted their philosophy and are ready to trade anybody. Because the Cubs were rebuffed in July when they tried to deal for outfielder Austin Kearns, those rumors will resurface.

Kearns, however, bats right-handed, and the Cubs would prefer a left-handed-hitting right fielder such as Huff or the Los Angeles Dodgers' Milton Bradley.

westofyou
12-06-2005, 11:16 AM
Kearns, however, bats right-handed, and the Cubs would prefer a left-handed-hitting right fielder such as Huff or the Los Angeles Dodgers' Milton Bradley.Yep, that is true. Lee and Ramirez are RH, and the Cubs probably would prefer something to counter that.

SteelSD
12-06-2005, 11:16 AM
#1 - His primary pitch is a sinker, not a slider. His slider is the main breaking pitch he uses, but it's nowhere near the quality of his sinker (although it's a good pitch). His problem is that it typically takes him an inning or two before he gets his sinker going. Couple that with the fact that his change is at best a slightly above average pitch (and thus he doesn't always trust it) and you have a guy who is not cut out for middle relief.

Sinkers age all well and good, but they're not "Out" pitches when a pitcher allows 11 Home Runs in 60.1 Innings Pitched. That leaves Mitre with a slider that may or may not work at any moment.

Basically, all you're telling me is that Mitre's a guy who's bound to have a rough first Inning because his "primary" pitch doesn't "get going" until later- which means he's got an inconsistent sinker, and inconsistent slider, and a mediocre changeup. Wonderful.


#2 - As I mentioned, Dusty Baker has not made Mitre's life easy. He's been buried in middle relief. He would go days between relief appearances on a number of occasions. I feel that his numbers are more reflective of his performances in the minors than in the majors.

In the minors, Mitre's given up more than a Hit per IP over his career. His HR/IP rate, while decent, doesn't play at the MLB level given his pitch selection and proficiency level. It would if he were better at actually throwing those pitches, but he's not.


Speaking as some one who tracks and compiles minor league statistical information and scouting reports on the Cubs minor leagues, I really like what I see in Mitre. He's competitive, he owns a very good pitch in his sinker, and has a future as a #3 guy in the league if he more consistently trusts his change. Considering the ballpark the Reds play him, I'd have to imagine he would be quite welcome, given the fact that he doesn't give up many HRs.

Competitors get their brains beat in while pitching in the Show all the time. He gets no bonus points for that. His sinker hasn't worked consistently at the MLB level. The guy has put up a 1.33 WHIP over his 170+ AAA IP and hasn't posted a truly low HR rate in the minors since 2003. He's got two pitches that don't work consistently and a third that barely works at all.

Sorry, but that's not welcome in any ballpark. Ground ball rates simply don't matter if the pitcher in question can't actually get hitters out. Anecdotal evidence suggests that Mitre can get hitters out IF everything is working for him. But the Reds have enough of that type of pitcher already.

Mitre smells less like a potential #3 than he does a less-projectible version of Josh Fogg.

Puffy
12-06-2005, 11:20 AM
I'm with Steel - I don't want any part of Mitre.

Williams and Tabasco - ahhhhhh, not the worst trade ever, but still not really enough at this particular time. I'd rather trade Casey first, see what you end up with and then if this trade happens and the Reds end up with Arroyo, Youlikis, Williams and Tabasco sauce guy - well, it would be a better offseason then last offseason, and with DanO maybe thats all we can hope for.

fs43340
12-06-2005, 12:02 PM
If that is the best we can get for Kearns, just keep him.
BINGO, I am sick and tired of getting prospects. Get major league talent for major league talent!

Doc. Scott
12-06-2005, 12:11 PM
Kearns for just Williams... hmmm.

Williams' (http://tsf.waymoresports.thestar.com/thestar/baseball/player.cgi?3278) scouting report makes mention of his outstanding changeup. You know how DanO salivates for changeups. Williams' ratios are pretty pedestrian at the moment (three walks per nine, about six Ks, about one HR), but he has already won twenty-three big-league games, so he's not someone who's going to need more seasoning.

Yeah, I think I could do Kearns for Jerome Williams and one of the Cubs' younger power relievers like Todd Wellemeyer or Mike Wuertz. Ricky Nolasco would be fine as well. if DanO had such man-love for Allan Simpson, he should love Wellemeyer, who's already flopped in three separate big-league stints, not just two like Allan.

For Wily Mo, I might take just Williams and a B/C A-ball sort.

Sergio Mitre... no thanks. A year older than Williams, considerably less successful, gives up lots of hits and doesn't strike people out.

flyer85
12-06-2005, 12:13 PM
I'd do WMP for Williams and Wuertz. I like Wuertz a lot. I think the Cubs made a mistake in signing Howry. They have a guy in Wuertz who will be better than him next year(IMHO).

reds44
12-06-2005, 07:25 PM
Jim Hendry was supposed to have his normal press conference at 5:30 but it got pushed back to 8:00 because they are going to announce a trade..

Interesting...........

Petitt33
12-06-2005, 07:29 PM
Jim Hendry was supposed to have his normal press conference at 5:30 but it got pushed back to 8:00 because they are going to announce a trade..

Interesting...........
I assume that the Cubs have traded for Lugo maybe???

reds44
12-06-2005, 07:31 PM
I assume that the Cubs have traded for Lugo maybe???

It could be anyone. Lugo, Pierre, Gathright, Kearns, Huff, but I just figured I would post it since there was a rumor just yesterday.

Outshined_One
12-06-2005, 10:39 PM
It turned out to be nothing. WGN Radio was hyping it up to be something it wasn't.

Also, now that Casey has been traded, I'm guessing that one of the four headed monster can go to 1B and basically alleviate the OF jam.